EU Graphical Update Feedback - Hands and Feet

If male Hrothgar are any indication, the nails will just be part of their starting gear's gloves and shoes

Sadly, it would seem they have been focusing on the faces only, from the neck down the polygons seem to be exactly the same, even the hair, though it's using better textures.


I really hope this is just the first part of the graphics update and they will fix the hideous bodies for all characters, just look at the elbows, the thighs, the knees and the feet, they look incredibly bad, it's easier too see when the character is sitting or sleeping.


It would be really shabby to have beautiful faces and PS3-era bodies.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

Sadly, it would seem they have been focusing on the faces only, from the neck down the polygons seem to be exactly the same, even the hair, though it's using better textures.


I really hope this is just the first part of the graphics update and they will fix the hideous bodies for all characters, just look at the elbows, the thighs, the knees and the feet, they look incredibly bad, it's easier too see when the character is sitting or sleeping.


It would be really shabby to have beautiful faces and PS3-era bodies.

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Maybe the preview only had the new head models loaded but yeah, it's especially noticeable on the shoulders where you still have the same blocky models. I looked at the nicely rounded chins and then shuddered a bit when I saw those next to the shoulders with edges sticking out.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

If male Hrothgar are any indication, the nails will just be part of their starting gear's gloves and shoes

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I really hope this isn't the case. Perhaps since the Female hrothgar had to be designed from the ground up it included those features and they haven't gotten to the bodies of the other races yet? This is probably copium but I feel like it really does make sense to add this to the aesthetician.

Making it part of the gear is just a really bad solution because it has to inevitably be integrated into a dye channel that also changes other materials colors.

If SE ran an inquiry into how many characters are using the false nails/other nail gear as a glamour item equipped I bet they would find a ton of players use them. As such, I know this wouldn't be a niche feature only some players would use. This would be dev time well spent imo.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

Sadly, it would seem they have been focusing on the faces only, from the neck down the polygons seem to be exactly the same, even the hair, though it's using better textures.


I really hope this is just the first part of the graphics update and they will fix the hideous bodies for all characters, just look at the elbows, the thighs, the knees and the feet, they look incredibly bad, it's easier too see when the character is sitting or sleeping.


It would be really shabby to have beautiful faces and PS3-era bodies.

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I completely agree. I saw some improvement that was undeniable in the feet of the female hrothgar I posted, as no other race has toenails (that are clearly recognizable anyways) but I do think they could do more. If the bodies don't get good improvements it will be a major bummer imo.

Everything below the head is currently linked specifically to gear (compare ARR gear hands to EW gear hands), unfortunately. As much as I'd love nail options (removing my boy's claws if I want him to have fingerless gloves sucks), I don't think it's going to happen with this update.

Can anyone please provide an update on this? Do we yet know if hands and feet will feature more polygons? I remember them showing off cool tech for the faces/heads for the graphical update where they are all the same exact polygon count to add detail but maintain performance but WHAT ABOUT HANDS AND FEET?!? YOSHI Y U NO ANSWER?!?????

since they said the update is happening over several steps and since they focused very heavily on faces til now i assume the focus in the other steps lies elsewhere. at least i hope so.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

since they said the update is happening over several steps and since they focused very heavily on faces til now i assume the focus in the other steps lies elsewhere. at least i hope so.

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The steps being applying updates to the content of previous expansions. The reason they're focusing on faces is because the overworld stuff that WILL change retroactively from the start was shown on the very first fanfest, and any new zones automatically showcase new zone quality, so they're just showing off what is probably most relevant to vast majority of players - faces. They aren't gonna be going down the body from face to feet updating it piece by piece over time.

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Originally Posted by PEANUT

Can anyone please provide an update on this? Do we yet know if hands and feet will feature more polygons? I remember them showing off cool tech for the faces/heads for the graphical update where they are all the same exact polygon count to add detail but maintain performance but WHAT ABOUT HANDS AND FEET?!? YOSHI Y U NO ANSWER?!?????

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Common sense says no, at least not for now.

Maybe once automated AI upscaling of models becomes less nightmare fuel inducing we might see something, but given the GTA3 remasters, that's probably a way off yet.

The question is if we will see a new foot and hand mesh going forward with new gear, as my reshade experiments showed a few pages back, new foot gear defo seems to be higher poly as a whole than older items, more so than the foot mesh itself warrants for sure.

i worried about my characters arms, they have like 3 pixels between the 2 of them, they already look bad but if they dont get updated along with the faces i wont be able to ever go sleeveless again
(male mid-lander with muscle slider cranked)

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Originally Posted by PEANUT

Can anyone please provide an update on this? Do we yet know if hands and feet will feature more polygons? I remember them showing off cool tech for the faces/heads for the graphical update where they are all the same exact polygon count to add detail but maintain performance but WHAT ABOUT HANDS AND FEET?!? YOSHI Y U NO ANSWER?!?????

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The current screenshots with the improved faces do not show any increased polygon count on the body. So no, i would not expect, that SQEX will improve it in DT. If they fix the broken normal maps then it still could look better.




Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

The current screenshots with the improved faces do not show any increased polygon count on the body. So no, i would not expect, that SQEX will improve it in DT. If they fix the broken normal maps then it still could look better.




Cheers

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They can’t release HD faces and leave the body as is. The difference is too stark. This would be a major disappointment TBH.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

They can’t release HD faces and leave the body as is. The difference is too stark. This would be a major disappointment TBH.

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More polygons on the rest of the body would increase the minimum PC requirements on the CPU side. So they should migrate the engine to Direct3D12 or Vulkan first. Direct3D11 creates a huge CPU overhead when it comes to process big polygon counts. But migrating old engines to Direct3D12/Vulkan is not very trivial.



Cheers

agreed! I sincerely hope the hands are sized down & smoothed a bit & our character models are actually allowed to have wrists ; -; and normal feet with toes, doesnt have to be fully separated- just not the n64 looking bit

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Originally Posted by juicybug

agreed! I sincerely hope the hands are sized down & smoothed a bit & our character models are actually allowed to have wrists ; -; and normal feet with toes, doesnt have to be fully separated- just not the n64 looking bit

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For sure. My only hopes is that the devs see that there is definitely an interest on behalf of the community in polishing up our limbs and not just our faces. Sure there may be complications on how the character models work but surely there must be solutions as well. What’s important is that they know this is something we as players want because it doesn’t make sense to fix everything else and leave this untouched.

I would say 80% of my glams have the false nails items as gloves and I would definitely like to use more sandals in the game if the feet didn’t look awful.

Same! I'd love if they implemented things others are talking about, like painting our nails through the aesthetician (hell I want to see body tattoos added there too, like the sleeve from the skyworker's singlet so it doesn't vanish when I change from my tank top to anything else) but I just desperately want my female characters to not have massive man hands anymore.

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

More polygons on the rest of the body would increase the minimum PC requirements on the CPU side.

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Character composition chokes performance in this game to a pretty extreme degree already. That thread will nuke performance into the floor in crowds long before any geometry overheads do.

Fun trivia, I upgraded from a Ryzen 3800X to a 5800X whilst Bojza was at it's height of popularity, alongside a 3080 my performance in the crowd outside the zone in more than doubled from sub 30 to just over 60 fps. Anywhere else I'm hitting the 100fps cap for my monitor with either cpu.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Fun trivia, I upgraded from a Ryzen 3800X to a 5800X whilst Bojza was at it's height of popularity, alongside a 3080 my performance in the crowd outside the zone in more than doubled from sub 30 to just over 60 fps. Anywhere else I'm hitting the 100fps cap for my monitor with either cpu.

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You can increase the performance further by using DXVK.

https://github.com/doitsujin/dxvk

Especially the minimum FPS will go up significantly. :)


Cheers

As an elezen I'd also like to advocate for better necks.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Common sense says no, at least not for now.

Maybe once automated AI upscaling of models becomes less nightmare fuel inducing we might see something, but given the GTA3 remasters, that's probably a way off yet.

The question is if we will see a new foot and hand mesh going forward with new gear, as my reshade experiments showed a few pages back, new foot gear defo seems to be higher poly as a whole than older items, more so than the foot mesh itself warrants for sure.

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Ugh, that's upsetting if they don't, truly... How many cutscenes in the entire game involve a character pointing or pointing directly at someone and the hand/finger is right in the camera and it just looks like N64 Shrek sausage, ugh! It just takes you out of the scene!

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Originally Posted by MsMisato

what you all don't like having sausages for fingers and blocks for feet?

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Wait, why are people calling them sausage fingers? Sausages aren't square. Sausage fingers would be an improvement.

Characters in Dawntrail after the faces get updated and nothing else:

https://i.imgur.com/tEsRmcj.png

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Characters in Dawntrail after the faces get updated and nothing else:

https://i.imgur.com/tEsRmcj.png

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!! X"DDDDDDDDD

One thing I haven't seen brought up is whether they'll update tails at all? There's no gear issues to worry about (aside from one or two cases) so you'd think they would, but the fact they haven't mentioned it makes me think otherwise...

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

One thing I haven't seen brought up is whether they'll update tails at all? There's no gear issues to worry about (aside from one or two cases) so you'd think they would, but the fact they haven't mentioned it makes me think otherwise...

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I don't think you have anything to worry about. It would be quite bizarre for all your scales to be HD except the ones on your tail.

Less worried about the textures as I am the model itself, it's quite poorly made/rigged (not to mention some Miqo'te tails being just flat planes, though I'm not sure how they could address that specific issue)

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

Less worried about the textures as I am the model itself, it's quite poorly made/rigged (not to mention some Miqo'te tails being just flat planes, though I'm not sure how they could address that specific issue)

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Jepp, but those poor models choke less on the CPU. The game engine is already very CPU- and memory performance intensive. If they improve the character models then they will have to increase the minimum requirements for the CPU. And many players will become unhappy because of it. Because it will force them to buy a new computer. You do not want to play this game at 25 fps or so.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Jepp, but those poor models choke less on the CPU. The game engine is already very CPU- and memory performance intensive. If they improve the character models then they will have to increase the minimum requirements for the CPU. And many players will become unhappy because of it. Because it will force them to buy a new computer. You do not want to play this game at 25 fps or so.

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Is there source somewhere that says that FF14 models are CPU heavy?

I just thought that GPU would mainly handle the rendering, with CPU simply telling what to draw.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

Less worried about the textures as I am the model itself, it's quite poorly made/rigged (not to mention some Miqo'te tails being just flat planes, though I'm not sure how they could address that specific issue)

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If they're updating the horn models I would assume they're updating the tail model as well since those are the defining features of Au Ra, but I guess we'll find out whenever the benchmark comes out.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/B7HASdfyL...sell-crowe.gif

What we'll be able to do with the new textured grass

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Is there source somewhere that says that FF14 models are CPU heavy?

I just thought that GPU would mainly handle the rendering, with CPU simply telling what to draw.

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It is CPU- and memory performance heavy because it scales very well with the CPU performance. Only in UHD/4K the GPU will likely become the bottleneck. And the models are very CPU heavy. If you do not believe it then go into a bigger night club and see how fast your FPS will go down.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

And the models are very CPU heavy. If you do not believe it then go into a bigger night club and see how fast your FPS will go down.

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Went from empty zone to middle of Limsa, and CPU utilization barely changed. And that's with 10 year old CPU.

I'd imagine draw calls being heavier for CPU than the models themselves. I've feeling that we could increase the polygon count with proper fingers and toes, and I doubt you'd even notice the impact.
Modern GPU's are so powerful that handling couple extra triangles won't really do much.

I’m pretty sure there’s plenty of headroom for more detailed models yeah. Case in point, my reshade wireframes show that a lot of newer outfits have significantly higher poly counts than stuff that came back in 2.x-3.x.

Although this game scales particularly well with CPU performance, it’s not really problematic until you start slamming against the player character render limits in very specific situations like a peak Bozja entrance or busy world boss fates.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I’m pretty sure there’s plenty of headroom for more detailed models yeah. Case in point, my reshade wireframes show that a lot of newer outfits have significantly higher poly counts than stuff that came back in 2.x-3.x.

Although this game scales particularly well with CPU performance, it’s not really problematic until you start slamming against the player character render limits in very specific situations like a peak Bozja entrance or busy world boss fates.

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There absolutely is. This game was redesigned 11 years ago to run on average computers from that time. Again, over a decade ago now. To think we can't up the graphics due to people's systems is not accurate. They just have to put in the work. And I'll be praying they do until they disappoint me.
s

kiss kiss bump

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

One thing I haven't seen brought up is whether they'll update tails at all? There's no gear issues to worry about (aside from one or two cases) so you'd think they would, but the fact they haven't mentioned it makes me think otherwise...

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I would assume the tail hair will get updated texture wise, but I do hope they increase volume since they are adding in new hair texture's as they have shown on the famous Llama mount.

I would hope in the future when they drop support for PS4 that they updated physics at least a little bit, such as tail physics, hair, cloth, etc. I really want ray-tracing options for computers that can handle it, heck even Cyberpunk has path-tracing options and PS5 has hardware based ray-tracing support (even though it's not great).