Getting your health chunked / killed while Guard is up is the worst feeling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karasio

But none of that matters if you make it even more obvious. That's the whole argument here. You get 5 seconds of time between the dragoon jumping and them coming down which is more than enough to counteract it. Leave. Dragoon. Alone. For the love of god

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Gotta agree. Dragoon is pretty balanced in my opinion and needs neither buffs nor debuffs (or more tells). More jobs should be modeled like dragoon's tradeoff play than dragoon being made more gimmicky.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blinding_Awesomeness

Gotta agree. Dragoon is pretty balanced in my opinion and needs neither buffs nor debuffs (or more tells). More jobs should be modeled like dragoon's tradeoff play than dragoon being made more gimmicky.

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Dragoon is literally the only one thats stupid easy to counter, so you want ALL LBs to be useless and stupid easy to counter? lol yall make no sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Dragoon is literally the only one thats stupid easy to counter, so you want ALL LBs to be useless and stupid easy to counter? lol yall make no sense.

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I'm not saying that at all. I'm talking about tradeoff play. Dragoon has a five-second counter, but when it connects it can do massive AOE damage that takes up to half HP. It can also be used in other ways, like forcing people back or stopping an advance or making them burn guard. And pair them with a job that has a draw in or stun effect, and you can be very powerful. Other jobs might not need to have a five-second counter or be guardable, but they don't have the same damage or utility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Nobody cares what you think.

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Says the player who thinks anyone who reached crystal cheated and that their achievements from spamming frontlines is somehow an accomplishment lol. I'd say my comments hold much more validity than you who can't get out of gold.

*grabs popcorn*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Says the cool guy who is amazing. they are also right that i clearly have no idea what im talking about, Truely my opinion does not matter and i should stop speaking because im a sad keyboard warrior.

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dont care, not even reading what you say.

https://i.redd.it/7fcu41hi2re41.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nighttimebunny

*grabs popcorn* watching this ransu guy make a fool of himself is kinda funny.

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I agree, truly a show.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

I agree, truly a show.

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lol I didn’t say that

He's just mad that he sucks at pvp.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Dragoon is literally the only one thats stupid easy to counter, so you want ALL LBs to be useless and stupid easy to counter? lol yall make no sense.

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I want all LBs to have meaningful counterplay. Also, funny you call dragoon LB useless and stupid easy to counter while you keep advocating to make it even easier to counter while making it hit harder when it's useless. Make up your mind. Dragoon is the best balanced job in the current iteration of PvP, and should be used as a base for the rest of the roster's balancing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ransu

maybe you're right, maybe i should perhaps get a life and quit being a PoS that thinks hes not some faceless nobody on the forums, maybe i should get a life.

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Yeah you should :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Dragoon is the best balanced job in the current iteration of PvP, and should be used as a base for the rest of the roster's balancing.

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https://i.imgur.com/CkV1Ose.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

https://i.imgur.com/CkV1Ose.gif

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He's not wrong. DRG is the most well designed of the jobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Yeah you should :)

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You poor thing.

What a joke. Go back to white knighting for bard silence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ransu

He's wrong. DRG is not the most well designed of the jobs.



You're amazing.

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Lol i know im amazing thanks.

These people man. Instead of throwing insults back and forth over meaningless shit and e-peen measuring, harass the guy who admitted to exploiting PLD in Onsal or something. Put your energy towards something productive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

https://i.imgur.com/CkV1Ose.gif

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Are you going to bring up any points as to why I'm wrong or something..? Or is this going to be another shit slinging contest or something? I just want to see meaningful change to the system because it has potential that's being squandered by bimonthly updates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Yes I understand the netcode is sh!t, yes I understand that ping and latency exist, yes I understand certain actions go through Guard but from an optics perspective seeing

+Guard

followed by

12500!
8000!
Dead

Is simply extremely demoralizing.

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What really gets me is when I press Guard and it doesn't pop immediately due to CC or button queue, so I press it again and Guard gets toggled off. Absolute worse. Sometimes I wish it had a 1s recast for mash protection.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

You're bait is amazing, do you fish?


care to explain how you do it?

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yes, i fish with only the best tools.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Yes I understand the netcode is sh!t, yes I understand that ping and latency exist, yes I understand certain actions go through Guard but from an optics perspective seeing

+Guard

followed by

12500!
8000!
Dead

Is simply extremely demoralizing.

---

Just to educate a little bit. It's not just netcode.
For example if we use a job like RDM with 3 dots. If those dots land before you pop your Guard then whilst you're using Guard they will continue to do full damage for the whole duration of Guard. This is true for all DoTs they hold high priority and do not get negated so most regular PvPers will use that to apply pressure that way. Square already have the ability to negate immediate damage with current code. For example the PLD Cover affects any damage as soon as the effect is introduced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Are you going to bring up any points as to why I'm wrong or something..? Or is this going to be another shit slinging contest or something? I just want to see meaningful change to the system because it has potential that's being squandered by bimonthly updates.

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"I want all LBs to have meaningful counterplay. Also, funny you call dragoon LB useless and stupid easy to counter while you keep advocating to make it even easier to counter while making it hit harder when it's useless. Make up your mind. Dragoon is the best balanced job in the current iteration of PvP, and should be used as a base for the rest of the roster's balancing."

What point here has anything to do with the fact that DRG is poorly balanced. It started stronger than the other melee because it has no CC and guess what it's been nerfed, but it still has no CC. What is balance in a game where they are trying to jam jobs into roles without role lock? Shit slinging contest? You made me laugh.

How do we reach meaningful counterplay in a world where half the jobs have instant and powerful limit breaks while others have to sit in animation completely vulnerable to getting wrecked? How do you reach that with a company that digs their heels and doubles down on every terrible design choice they make. Did you know DRG animation lock death was a thing in pve for 10 fucking years? I feel like you guys think that a set rotation in pvp equals balanced, and I find that hilarious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

"I want all LBs to have meaningful counterplay. Also, funny you call dragoon LB useless and stupid easy to counter while you keep advocating to make it even easier to counter while making it hit harder when it's useless. Make up your mind. Dragoon is the best balanced job in the current iteration of PvP, and should be used as a base for the rest of the roster's balancing."

What point here has anything to do with the fact that DRG is poorly balanced. It started stronger than the other melee because it has no CC and guess what it's been nerfed, but it still has no CC. What is balance in a game where they are trying to jam jobs into roles without role lock? Shit slinging contest? You made me laugh.

How do we reach meaningful counterplay in a world where half the jobs have instant and powerful limit breaks while others have to sit in animation completely vulnerable to getting wrecked? How do you reach that with a company that digs their heels and doubles down on every terrible design choice they make. Did you know DRG animation lock death was a thing in pve for 10 fucking years? I feel like you guys think that a set rotation in pvp equals balanced, and I find that hilarious.

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I don't know what patch notes you've been reading because the ones I'm looking at have only seen dragoon get buffed. Horrid roar went down 5 seconds in cooldown and Chaos spring got an extra 50% to the lifesteal potency. Genuinely confused what you're looking at lmao. And you still haven't actually made any points as to why dragoon is poorly balanced. It's a job with a clear niche and counterplay. No gimmicky LB or anything. Personally I wish healing wasn't so prolific so I could assassinate backline creatures but that's me.

Funny you mention animation lock deaths, because I've mained the job for over 3 years now, and back when the animation locks were horrendous I barely died. Guess it's just a skill issue or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bureda

Just to educate a little bit. It's not just netcode.
For example if we use a job like RDM with 3 dots. If those dots land before you pop your Guard then whilst you're using Guard they will continue to do full damage for the whole duration of Guard. This is true for all DoTs they hold high priority and do not get negated so most regular PvPers will use that to apply pressure that way. Square already have the ability to negate immediate damage with current code. For example the PLD Cover affects any damage as soon as the effect is introduced.

---

That's something new to me. How does it work with SCH? For example, if I put Bio on someone guarding and spread it, does it do less damage to everyone hit by the spread? And if I spread Bio on someone who isn't guarding and it hits someone who is guarding, does the DoT still do less damage to the person guarding?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

What point here has anything to do with the fact that DRG is poorly balanced. It started stronger than the other melee because it has no CC and guess what it's been nerfed, but it still has no CC. What is balance in a game where they are trying to jam jobs into roles without role lock? Shit slinging contest? You made me laugh.

---

DRG's LB is not weak at all, even if the color change was added. A get-out-of-jail-free card, 20k AoE potency around 10y, 30k AoE potency around 5y, AND Geirskogul 25% damage buff, it's seriously good.
It's an LB that's stronger with team coordination, like DNC. It definitely doesn't need CC tacked on top of it too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Funny you mention animation lock deaths, because I've mained the job for over 3 years now, and back when the animation locks were horrendous I barely died. Guess it's just a skill issue or something.

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It's always fun to see clueless keyboard warriors start slandering their own jobs fellow player base. I'm sure doing subpar damage to dance around an unnecessary animation lock is a strong show of skill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flowerfairy

That's something new to me. How does it work with SCH? For example, if I put Bio on someone guarding and spread it, does it do less damage to everyone hit by the spread? And if I spread Bio on someone who isn't guarding and it hits someone who is guarding, does the DoT still do less damage to the person guarding?

DRG's LB is not weak at all, even if the color change was added. A get-out-of-jail-free card, 20k AoE potency around 10y, 30k AoE potency around 5y, AND Geirskogul 25% damage buff, it's seriously good.
It's an LB that's stronger with team coordination, like DNC. It definitely doesn't need CC tacked on top of it too.

---

Yes color change because when I'm focusing three people and the faint marker for drg blends with the crystals ambient glow effect I'd like to know if it's friend or foe rather than guess and hope. You can't always depend on getting to limit break inside your burst window. The real power comes from having the enemy team grouped up which by the way is a gimmick Karasio. Again role lock issues you cannot and will not have a synergy partner most of the time. You're leaning very heavily on the ifs and buts of everything going perfectly instead of the average.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

It's always fun to see clueless keyboard warriors start slandering their own jobs fellow player base. I'm sure doing subpar damage to dance around an unnecessary animation lock is a strong show of skill.

---

Only one clueless here is you. I have literally played the job for over 3 years up to savage raids. Also, love how you just spout some random bullshit with absolutely no backing. You have no actual arguments to make so you're just typing for the sake of typing to start shit. No meaningful conversation to be had with you.

Anyone who thinks DRG needs CC doesn't know how to play DRG. They are literally a in and out dps. If you're at a point where you are staying in or chasing someone you're doing it wrong. The job is plenty strong and doesn't need any buffs or nerfs.

This is the first time I've really seen people strongly call for DRG buffs. Most of the time, people want DRG to be nerfed, especially because of strong AOE damage that's the same size as the Crystal or other objectives, not to mention how people love to clump in Frontline.

Though I think it's worth noting when PVP DRG mains say DRG doesn't need buffs, whether for a particular skill or overall. Either they're strong at the job and feel anything more would be OP or they love being weak and losing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Only one clueless here is you. I have literally played the job for over 3 years up to savage raids. Also, love how you just spout some random bullshit with absolutely no backing. You have no actual arguments to make so you're just typing for the sake of typing to start shit. No meaningful conversation to be had with you.

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You literally started this and also carried through savage good to know. Three years wow that's amazing WOOOOOW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Anyone who thinks DRG needs CC is right and probably plays the job extensively in pvp. clearly DRG needs a stun ability like they used to have and maybe give them their ranged attack back.

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I agree 100% :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karasio

Only one intelligent here is you. I have literally played the job for over 3 years up to savage raid. i also love how just because i cleared savage raids for 3 year means nothing in pvp and im probably not all that smart for bragging about that in a pvp thread, you're right sorry.

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Yup, the lalafell is pretty smart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blinding_Awesomeness

pvp players that main DRG are saying that it does need some buffs or certain things to be giving back to them as they were removed for no real good reason.

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i agree as i used to be a DRG main but moved on to ninja since its much easier to play and has more ranged ability's compared to dragoon.

Why not just make the dragoon LB like their high jump, press it and woosh you leap and hit your target for big damage instead of having the stupid aoe marker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elfidan

Yes color change because when I'm focusing three people and the faint marker for drg blends with the crystals ambient glow effect I'd like to know if it's friend or foe rather than guess and hope. You can't always depend on getting to limit break inside your burst window. The real power comes from having the enemy team grouped up which by the way is a gimmick Karasio. Again role lock issues you cannot and will not have a synergy partner most of the time. You're leaning very heavily on the ifs and buts of everything going perfectly instead of the average.

---

In midcore to high-end gameplay, I think the main usage of DRG's LB shifts from "nuke clueless noobies" to "zone control via damage threat." It's a common tactic in various PvP games.
For example, Dva's nuke in Overwatch instakills anyone who isn't a tank with a defense buff. In reality, you're not supposed to be getting hit by it in the first place because she yells out a voiceline and it takes a while for it to explode. Moving behind a wall or a shield is the basic counterplay behind it. However, there's counterplay against that counterplay. Dva without her mech can't do much, but she already gains zone control because of the threat of getting instakilled. A teammate can also stun Rein's shield, Sombra can use her ult in unison, Lucio can boop someone hiding to the nuke, etc.

DRG also has that tactic; if there's a teamfight inside the payload, DRG's LB basically says "If you don't go away, you DIE." The counterplay is to either go away or use Guard to keep contesting the payload. If you go away, you lose zone control and DRG's team gets to keep pushing. If you use Guard, you're vulnerable to getting bursted in the next 30s.

And anyways, I don't think you can adjust the LB without completely changing it. Adding CC to it won't fix the fact that you can just run away from it. Increasing the speed to catch up with people running away also sounds silly broken and the damage will have to be nerfed to the point of obsolete.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Why not just make the dragoon LB like their high jump, press it and woosh you leap and hit your target for big damage instead of having the stupid aoe marker.

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That's boring. We don't need another MNK & MCH LB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flowerfairy

That's boring. We don't need another MNK & MCH LB.

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bruh literally every other LB is /not/ telegraphed like Dragoons is, theres no reason not to change it to where its just you press the button and you do that damage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

I like to change people's quote text to stuff I agree with.

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Why would you do that? Don't think your ideas stand on their own merits? Don't think people can follow a conversation?

Blinding_Awesomeness didn't say what you quoted him as saying. How many times have you done this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

bruh literally every other LB is /not/ telegraphed like Dragoons is, theres no reason not to change it to where its just you press the button and you do that damage.

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So let's homogenize the LB to an uninteresting button with no thought process? Why do you hate depth in videogames?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by permanewbie

i think im original in provoking somebody by copying something they're doing to maintain some level of positivity in the thread instead of reading the BS these people are posting.

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Maybe you should stop that and stick to a constructive topic. :)

https://media.tenor.com/a2gst_5S-RAA...inger-guns.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flowerfairy

So let's homogenize the LB to an uninteresting button with no thought process? Why do you hate depth in videogames?

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why does SE? literally dragoon is the only one that is crippled because of this lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flowerfairy

In midcore to high-end gameplay, I think the main usage of DRG's LB shifts from "nuke clueless noobies" to "zone control via damage threat." It's a common tactic in various PvP games.
For example, Dva's nuke in Overwatch instakills anyone who isn't a tank with a defense buff. In reality, you're not supposed to be getting hit by it in the first place because she yells out a voiceline and it takes a while for it to explode. Moving behind a wall or a shield is the basic counterplay behind it. However, there's counterplay against that counterplay. Dva without her mech can't do much, but she already gains zone control because of the threat of getting instakilled. A teammate can also stun Rein's shield, Sombra can use her ult in unison, Lucio can boop someone hiding to the nuke, etc.

DRG also has that tactic; if there's a teamfight inside the payload, DRG's LB basically says "If you don't go away, you DIE." The counterplay is to either go away or use Guard to keep contesting the payload. If you go away, you lose zone control and DRG's team gets to keep pushing. If you use Guard, you're vulnerable to getting bursted in the next 30s.

And anyways, I don't think you can adjust the LB without completely changing it. Adding CC to it won't fix the fact that you can just run away from it. Increasing the speed to catch up with people running away also sounds silly broken and the damage will have to be nerfed to the point of obsolete.

---

Even though it's push the cart You can't really compare this to overwatch which is meant to be played like advanced rock paper scissors. You can't swap to counterplay even if there was such a think outside the intelligent use of silence and MoN which feel oppressive when used correctly. You can compare the diva nuke to drg LB if you want, but it's a bad take since diva is can you see it where drg is proximity to drg + bonus for proximity to teammates. We're comparing apples and oranges here.

It very easy to tweak the base no bonus damage totals. Adding CC to the class would bring it more in line with the other melee in terms of team synergy instead of just having nin, sam, and monk able to burst from 100 to 0 as well as stun, slow, or bind for teammates ready to do so. Meanwhile drg just hope to catch people with their rotation before they walk away from them. Run away from it? Weren't you on the burst window band wagon? How are they going to outrun you quick enough after elusive?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by permanewbie

Why would you do that? Don't think your ideas stand on their own merits? Don't think people can follow a conversation?

Blinding_Awesomeness didn't say what you quoted him as saying. How many times have you done this?

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Towa's been doing that for the last few pages now. Just report and ignore them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elfidan

Even though it's push the cart You can't really compare this to overwatch which is meant to be played like advanced rock paper scissors.

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No ones comparing it to overwatch, but zoning people out of the circle is a legitimate tactic. Even if you only get one or two kills with DRG's LB, you still pushed everyone out and forced 1 or 2 players into respawning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elfidan

It very easy to tweak the base no bonus damage totals. Adding CC to the class would bring it more in line with the other melee in terms of team synergy instead of just having nin, sam, and monk able to burst from 100 to 0 as well as stun, slow, or bind for teammates ready to do so.

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DRG does not need CC....Why are people so hell bent on complaining about stuns and then turn around demanding a job that doesn't need it to have it added. DRG can burst you down extremely fast and I feel like a lot of you are trying to stay in melee range too often when you absolutely should not be doing that. DRG is very much a hit n run job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elfidan

Meanwhile drg just hope to catch people with their rotation before they walk away from them. Run away from it? Weren't you on the burst window band wagon? How are they going to outrun you quick enough after elusive?

---

Why are you chasing people? You literally want them further away from you with how wyrmwind thrust works doing more damage the further away you are. Your burst is literally jump in, do heavens thrust and weave in horrid roar, maybe squeeze in chaotic spring then jump out and hit them with wyrmwind thrust followed by nastrond. You really shouldn't be chasing people and that combo has very strong burst and will outright kill a player not paying attention. wyrmwind and nastrond also have the added bonus of being aoe's.