FFXIV Biggest Disease....Parsing

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Originally Posted by Alistercain001

Yes it is a disease I say because more people than not use the info to cry to the devs because their tank does 3% less damage than another tank even tho they have heals and more mitigation/ group utility and then the devs turn every job into something a 3 year old can play for "balance" or because its too hard to have to pick one out of two skills to weave in-between GCDs or because its not super easy to maintain uptime on something. You can tell you are getting better at the game without DPS meters or logs. I just want people to stop optimizing the fun out of the game.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

Spoken like someone who doesnt even know anyone with a parser. "more people than not"? Really?

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While the second quote sums it up. To add:

Parsers aren't the ones causing changes to the game that everyone has issues with; It's turbocasuals. "Parsers" don't want the maximum amount of DPS to be easier to reach because then they don't have anything to work on.

Any "parser" that would complain about 3% less damage on a job that has more mitigation (which is a minority) would be told by the majority of parsers that they're dumb because of the other job differences.

The closest thing to your example MIGHT be "parsers" arguing whether a 3% damage difference is actually made up by the mitigation/healing that is being discussed.

"More people than not" is just a make believe world though.

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

u know, my BiS WHM was booted from a P4S reclear because the cohealer looked me up and said i never healed part 2

they completely ignored full orange parses on my main job for a competency check

anyway, i just laughed it off, it was pretty funny XD

oh this week i was called a parsing healer on my sage in p4s because i was not GCD healing to save the party from the next raidwide, yeah that aoe shield + pepsis is gonna help us survive from 20% HP

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This is my love/hate relationship with healing savage. You're judged on competency via dps. But if you don't gcd heal (only needed on my sage when people didnt do mechanics) you're also a shit healer. I'm so tired of it. I can't dps on p3s ever because no one survives FoA. So I look like a shitty healer even though I carried groups through via gcd spam.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Sure, because they don't care about parsing. They just don't.

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They care, but they know that trying to do something about it is futile. As Yoshi-P said, what's the difference between a parser and an excel spreadsheet that you cut and pasted your client-generated logs into? How far can they go to try and regulate what you're running on your computer? He said that they'd rather give players their privacy and rely on their honor than waste time and goodwill trying to police everyone's personal computer.

Posting someone's logs on the internet, however, is a different story, and he explicitly said that they will ban for that on the pretext of harassment, not because the player was parsing. He also said that they deliberately left ACT-style functionality out of the game because they didn't want to encourage players to blame each other for not clearing content. He said that games shouldn't exclusively be about efficiency. It's a refreshing departure from the way that the Blizzard development team acts, to be quite honest.

I personally feel that it would be nice to have an in-game parser that shows your stats and your stats only. I think that would give players who want to improve their performance the tools they need to do so without encouraging the bullying that comes along with team-wide parsers.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

They care, but they know that trying to do something about it is futile. As Yoshi-P said, what's the difference between a parser and an excel spreadsheet that you cut and pasted your client-generated logs into? How far can they go to try and regulate what you're running on your computer? He said that they'd rather give players their privacy and rely on their honor than waste time and goodwill trying to police everyone's personal computer.

Posting someone's logs on the internet, however, is a different story, and he explicitly said that they will ban for that on the pretext of harassment, not because the player was parsing. He also said that they deliberately left ACT-style functionality out of the game because they didn't want to encourage players to blame each other for not clearing content. He said that games shouldn't exclusively be about efficiency. It's a refreshing departure from the way that the Blizzard development team acts, to be quite honest.

I personally feel that it would be nice to have an in-game parser that shows your stats and your stats only. I think that would give players who want to improve their performance the tools they need to do so without encouraging the bullying that comes along with team-wide parsers.

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This approach gates out toxic people who have no idea how to read logs and no idea about the game in general from wielding them as weapons, while allowing smarter and less toxic people to keep a tab on their own performance and who they should definitely silently kick from their party. Yea it sucks to get silently kicked when you have genuinely no idea what mistakes you are making but there will never be a perfect solution because people simply arent perfect beings.

Usually if you are in any content where parsing even happens with any semblance of seriousness and you ask someone on how to improve, chances are someone will point you at any half decent guide out there (usually towards the resources of the balance discord).

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

He also said that they deliberately left ACT-style functionality out of the game because they didn't want to encourage players to blame each other for not clearing content.

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The biggest problem with that is that it's exactly what players do, blame each other when they don't clear content. Except now it's based on misconceptions. Players who are largely at fault for their groups not clearing blaming the group and actually believing they're in the right, but no one can disprove them because the only method to display performance is banned.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

FFlogs and other sites should definitely be "Opt-In" not "Opt-Out". If they are a just a tool for self improvment then other peoples data shouldn't matter at all..

If Bill does a search for Gary and Gary hasnt registered on fflogs or opted in it should just say "This player isn't registered" instead of a "This player is hiding their data" There's a big difference between those two messages.

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There really isn't. Someone who hasn't registered on FFlogs will be viewed with the same stigma as someone hiding their logs. At the end of the day, FFlogs is treated as your raid resume. Good groups won't use it as the end all be all when potentially looking to recruit. However, many want some sort of reference point to go over. Say you're looking for a semi-hardcore group but have never parsed above 50%. Even with a solid mechanical consistency, those types of groups want players who can equally push damage alongside handling mechanics. In all probability, the players simply won't have the same goals. In fact, I'll cite a friend of mine who parses above average. He literally only cares about clearing even if it's entirely scuffed. Which is great. He and I wouldn't gel well in a group together because I really couldn't care less about clearing Savage "just for the weekly" once we've finished prog. I want to optimize as that's the aspect of Savage I enjoy most. I don't have any qualms if we wipe because someone messed up and it caused deaths to spiral.

FFlogs is simply a tool. Some players misuse it but the tool itself isn't to blame. Nor is it a disease. The sheer irony is FFlogs keeps Savage alive. Without an Ultimate, there simply isn't a point for people to even run it outside of the initial gear.

It should also be noted pretty much nobody cares about logs below Savage. At least in terms of good players you'd actually want to be around. Even Ultimate parses are generally thought of as more of a cool meme than a serious goal. Having three EX Primals uploaded won't mean a thing unless you're trying to jump into a hider tier midcore group. Then they'll likely want to see some degree of experience.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Parsing just seems to be the extension of a bigger problem this community has, which is trying to coach and teach players who have no interest in being taught, just focus on yourself and your own play.
If parsing really is for personal improvement, then people really shouldn't be turning it on in roulettes or normal content and just leave it to PF content and their static, but a lot of people definitely don't use it like that.

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This line of logic would suffice... if this weren't a team game. Your performance in Savage will impact my goals of clearing. A tank who refuses to mitigate forces their healers to either accommodate their poor play or comment on it. They literally can't improve if they're having to constantly baby tanks or DPS who couldn't care less. And who is often played for the DPS dying despite said DPS eating their fourth vuln stack? Just this week I argued with a Bard in P1S because they didn't want to flex and dismissively said "I don't care about a number on a website." Basically, they couldn't care less if the tanks suffered a 30% damage down all because they couldn't be bothered to learn how to do the mechanic properly. Do I actually care about the parse? Not really. I even rejoined that same party after they booted the Bard despite them no longer having a Prange. For me, it's the principle of demanding others to accommodate your laziness.
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In the end SE is largely to blame for creating this DPS centric mentality amongst the playerbase because there's literally nothing else to focus on. As a tank, I barely have any genuine tanking responsibilities. Every boss auto-positions, does infrequent and entirely scripted busters and aggro management is a joke. Healers have it even worse. Nothing below the Savage level necessities any kind of healing. Even Savage itself barely does. Hence why they're constantly complaining about their boring nuke spam "rotation." When the support roles aren't evaluated on their ability to tank or heal, respectively, but rather on their efficiency at being a gimped DPS. It's hardly a wonder why parse metrics have become so pervasive at the Savage level. And this is entirely on SE not the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The biggest problem with that is that it's exactly what players do, blame each other when they don't clear content. Except now it's based on misconceptions. Players who are largely at fault for their groups not clearing blaming the group and actually believing they're in the right, but no one can disprove them because the only method to display performance is banned.

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Players are going to suck sometimes, and sadly there's nothing SE can do about that. What they can do, however, is not actively encourage that behavior the way that Blizzard does. They go even further, banning the behavior when it can be proven. That's better than doing nothing. It's way better than what Blizzard's done, which is to actively encourage and reward that behavior. M+ dungeons in WoW drop half the loot if you don't make the timer. On top of that, failing the timer degrades the key that was used to start the dungeon, impacting not only the quantity of loot for the current run, but also the quality of the loot in future runs. If you think players get mad at each other in this game because they keep wiping in Savage raids, just imagine your daily MSQ denying you tomestones because one player stood in the bad stuff too many times and another player was still learning their rotation.

But that's not all they've done. They keep track of everyone's runs and give them an in-game score based on their successes and failures. So if you run with a new or unskilled player, not only are you degrading your loot; you're also trashing the personal in-game score that others are going to use to include/exclude you from their runs. I could never imagine Yoshi-P signing onto something like that in this game, and that's why I'm playing it.

It's one thing to tolerate bad actors who operate under the radar. It's quite another to glorify and encourage them. Maybe I'm more supportive of SE in this regard than I should be simply because I've seen how much worse it could be.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Healers have it even worse. Nothing below the Savage level necessities any kind of healing.

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Players keep saying that, but I swear I see a tank die in the roulette almost every night because they're under the delusion that they can pull three packs with no mitigation and duck around a corner with no worries. Some fights I barely have time to keep my dot on the boss because players are taking so much damage. If you're always running with fully geared players who have been clearing the roulette every single day for the last five years, you would understandably have this perception, but as somenoe who always queues with random players, I don't feel underutilized as a healer. It's rare to clear even a level 50 alliance raid in the roulette without seeing several deaths. A periodic Medica II may suffice for experienced players, but for other players it's just a start. There's only one rescue button, and it has a lengthy cooldown.

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Originally Posted by gotaname1

there is only bigger disease in f14 than parsing and that is people complaining about it despite being literally unaffected by it. Bonus points if those players dont even do the content where the parsing happens.

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Because parsing isn't staying in that content. It's bleeding down into casual content. I've seen people on these forums who say they parse alliance raids and normal raids and dungeons and judge people about it. Wanna parse for someone's own benefit, fine. But there's zero reason to obsess over numbers in casual content. That makes someone less flexible to react to the idiosyncrasies that happen in a given run because they're more focused on tunnel visioning those arbitrary numbers than being a good teammate.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The biggest problem with that is that it's exactly what players do, blame each other when they don't clear content. Except now it's based on misconceptions. Players who are largely at fault for their groups not clearing blaming the group and actually believing they're in the right, but no one can disprove them because the only method to display performance is banned.

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Just to provide an example of why this stance simply doesn't work the way Yoshida intended, I'll cite my TEA prog last year. We hit Perfect Alexander enrage five times; twice with only a tank death and three times with zero deaths. Now I cleared this fight on release yet in this group we had people with dungeon BiS and three people (later four) rocking relics. There's absolutely zero chance we should be even remotely close to enrage in a deathless run. Clearly the DPS aren't doing their job since it's an enrage after all, yes? Turns out the healers had no mitigation blame whatsoever and were tripping over each other—to the point we lost 4k overall DPS from them alone. Once that was addressed, we cleared before the tanks got jailed.

Without FFlogs, there's literally no way for us to have pinpointed what exactly was the problem. Maybe it gets brought up that the healers aren't synergizing their heals well but how many pulls do we lose blaming the DPS for something outside their control?

This is far from a rare occurrence either. I've been accused of being the lowest DPS despite my little abacus showing I was the highest. I've seen healers pulling 1k DPS demand the group needs to "do more damage". And we have the hilarious meme of a certain Primal tank who was accused of not using any mitigation on his P3S tether buster despite it clearly showing in his twitch clip that he had Nebula, Rampart and Camouflage rolling all while he sat at 30k HP. He even linked the damn FFlogs mitigation chart in party chat just to prove his point when they insisted he had no CDs up. He was then accused of being toxic for linking to that website and threatened with a report.

But yes, parsing and FFlogs are always toxic.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Just to provide an example of why this stance simply doesn't work the way Yoshida intended, I'll cite my TEA prog last year. We hit Perfect Alexander enrage five times; twice with only a tank death and three times with zero deaths. Now I cleared this fight on release yet in this group we had people with dungeon BiS and three people (later four) rocking relics. There's absolutely zero chance we should be even remotely close to enrage in a deathless run. Clearly the DPS aren't doing their job since it's an enrage after all, yes? Turns out the healers had no mitigation blame whatsoever and were tripping over each other—to the point we lost 4k overall DPS from them alone. Once that was addressed, we cleared before the tanks got jailed.

Without FFlogs, there's literally no way for us to have pinpointed what exactly was the problem. Maybe it gets brought up that the healers aren't synergizing their heals well but how many pulls do we lose blaming the DPS for something outside their control?

This is far from a rare occurrence either. I've been accused of being the lowest DPS despite my little abacus showing I was the highest. I've seen healers pulling 1k DPS demand the group needs to "do more damage". And we have the hilarious meme of a certain Primal tank who was accused of not using any mitigation on his P3S tether buster despite it clearly showing in his twitch clip that he had Nebula, Rampart and Camouflage rolling all while he sat at 30k HP. He even linked the damn FFlogs mitigation chart in party chat just to prove his point when they insisted he had no CDs up. He was then accused of being toxic for linking to that website and threatened with a report.

But yes, parsing and FFlogs are always toxic.

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Nobody is arguing against it being used in static groups, it's the toxicity that happens when it's used in non parse PFs and casual content that it causes issues, not when people are in a static and analyzing after pulls.

The thing with parsing, is that it isnt anything bad in itself. But it has that magical ability to turn idiots into even bigger idiots, because the numbers it shows them, sets for Metaslaves certain standards that they think they must keep at all costs, or else their desired content will be in their eyes, unclearable and every person who doesnt contribute X amount of dmg for example, is a hindrance to all life and should be exiled and join the depression cult in Ultima Thule.

While it is nice to be done with a Raid or whatever in a short amount of time, at the end of the day when push comes to shove, all that matters is "is it doable or is it not?".

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Because parsing isn't staying in that content. It's bleeding down into casual content. I've seen people on these forums who say they parse alliance raids and normal raids and dungeons and judge people about it. Wanna parse for someone's own benefit, fine. But there's zero reason to obsess over numbers in casual content. That makes someone less flexible to react to the idiosyncrasies that happen in a given run because they're more focused on tunnel visioning those arbitrary numbers than being a good teammate.

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There's 0 reason to obsess over numbers in casual content, and there is 0 reason to care about some one doing it.
All the parsing argument every turns into is a bunch of casual players whining about some one parsing them and saying something, and a bunch of raiders explaining why it is needed. This will always be a endless argument until people simply understand it is a tool to help you gauge your dps, but tools can be used to to bad things as well. Casual players need to get over it move on or if they don't like it learn to play so no one complains anyways. More than likely if they are complaining from the parse your DPS must be pretty bad to where even with out parsing it, it would be noticeable. Raiders need to stop parsing every aspect of the game, how well you did in a dungeon, or 24 man raid does not matter at all, you are not good you are just trying to give yourself an ego trip.

I honeslty don't see any reason to use a dps meter.

Sorry, but FFXIV has plain->even boring rotations (except the BLM) and a easy peak dps window (=put everything you got in CD), thus the most of the time the lack of dps means A DPS DIED.
Do I need a parser to see WHO is moping the ground with his back?

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

I honeslty don't see any reason to use a dps meter.

Sorry, but FFXIV has plain->even boring rotations (except the BLM) and a easy peak dps window (=put everything you got in CD), thus the most of the time the lack of dps means A DPS DIED.
Do I need a parser to see WHO is moping the ground with his back?

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It is funny when people use this argument, but they never do anything beyond casual content.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

I honeslty don't see any reason to use a dps meter.

Sorry, but FFXIV has plain->even boring rotations (except the BLM) and a easy peak dps window (=put everything you got in CD), thus the most of the time the lack of dps means A DPS DIED.
Do I need a parser to see WHO is moping the ground with his back?

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90% GCD uptime? Check.
Missed cooldowns? Check. (0/14 intervene, lol)
Missing DoT uptime? Check.
Never actually "putting everything you got in CD"? Check. (11 GCDs in FoF? What's this?)
Quintuple weave? Check.

Sorry, love, looks like it's really not that "plain, even boring" as you say.

no
/10chars

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

There's 0 reason to obsess over numbers in casual content, and there is 0 reason to care about some one doing it.
All the parsing argument every turns into is a bunch of casual players whining about some one parsing them and saying something, and a bunch of raiders explaining why it is needed. This will always be a endless argument until people simply understand it is a tool to help you gauge your dps, but tools can be used to to bad things as well. Casual players need to get over it move on or if they don't like it learn to play so no one complains anyways. More than likely if they are complaining from the parse your DPS must be pretty bad to where even with out parsing it, it would be noticeable. Raiders need to stop parsing every aspect of the game, how well you did in a dungeon, or 24 man raid does not matter at all, you are not good you are just trying to give yourself an ego trip.

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There is zero reason to care until they bring the toxicity into the group and that does happen. Yeah, we can report them as another poster mentioned in the previous comment. And then you see those same people still around.

There's a numbers bar for harder content. The bar in casual content is doing the mechanics and working with your teammates. So long as people understand that and don't try to pull content to their personal preferences, then there won't be issues.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Because parsing isn't staying in that content. It's bleeding down into casual content. I've seen people on these forums who say they parse alliance raids and normal raids and dungeons and judge people about it. Wanna parse for someone's own benefit, fine. But there's zero reason to obsess over numbers in casual content. That makes someone less flexible to react to the idiosyncrasies that happen in a given run because they're more focused on tunnel visioning those arbitrary numbers than being a good teammate.

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If someone is standing on the street proclaiming the end of the world by invasion of oversized lobsters, do you also take it seriously? There is no reason to take someone seriously if they are unironically talking about alliance raid or expert dungeon logs. It's like holding a giant sign that says "hello please ignore me". That's different however from calling out someone who is clearly not putting even the least bit of effort in to respect the time of people who are grouped up with them even if your regular talesfromDF poster cant tell the difference. But that's a subreddit best ignored anyway. You're better off never looking at it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

If someone is standing on the street proclaiming the end of the world by invasion of oversized lobsters, do you also take it seriously? There is no reason to take someone seriously if they are unironically talking about alliance raid or expert dungeon logs. It's like holding a giant sign that says "hello please ignore me". That's different however from calling out someone who is clearly not putting even the least bit of effort in to respect the time of people who are grouped up with them even if your regular talesfromDF poster cant tell the difference. But that's a subreddit best ignored anyway. You're better off never looking at it anyway.

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We've had this argument ad nauseum on these forums before. Why does anyone think they have the right to call someone out who was put together with them into a group by a random matching system? In a situation where content requires that sort of mentality then being able to openly discuss and analyze should be welcomed and encouraged. But in content that doesn't require that mentality, there's no reason to bring it up because the content can be cleared without that mentality.

If someone absolutely must have X experience in roulette, whatever that is, then they have the capability of making a premade for their exacting specifications. Otherwise, there's a certain amount of flexibility that is going to service people the best when they let the system randomly match them with players of varying skill levels and experiences.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

We've had this argument ad nauseum on these forums before. Why does anyone think they have the right to call someone out who was put together with them into a group by a random matching system? In a situation where content requires that sort of mentality then being able to openly discuss and analyze should be welcomed and encouraged. But in content that doesn't require that mentality, there's no reason to bring it up because the content can be cleared without that mentality.

If someone absolutely must have X experience in roulette, whatever that is, then they have the capability of making a premade for their exacting specifications. Otherwise, there's a certain amount of flexibility that is going to service people the best when they let the system randomly match them with players of varying skill levels and experiences.

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Yes, there should be some basic form of game understanding expectable even for normal content. If someone presses a button once every 10 seconds, never aoes and generally has no clue what they are doing in expert dungeons, the toxic act is not me calling them out, the toxic act is them doing nothing. I expect people to not intentionally and willfully waste other people's time, because it's incredibily easy to play the game at a casual level. No one needs a parser for that however. Just... push your buttons dude, everyone with eyes can see when your not.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

There is zero reason to care until they bring the toxicity into the group and that does happen. Yeah, we can report them as another poster mentioned in the previous comment. And then you see those same people still around.

There's a numbers bar for harder content. The bar in casual content is doing the mechanics and working with your teammates. So long as people understand that and don't try to pull content to their personal preferences, then there won't be issues.

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All you are doing is stooping down to there level by making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. It's a dungeon who cares.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

We've had this argument ad nauseum on these forums before. Why does anyone think they have the right to call someone out who was put together with them into a group by a random matching system? In a situation where content requires that sort of mentality then being able to openly discuss and analyze should be welcomed and encouraged. But in content that doesn't require that mentality, there's no reason to bring it up because the content can be cleared without that mentality.

If someone absolutely must have X experience in roulette, whatever that is, then they have the capability of making a premade for their exacting specifications. Otherwise, there's a certain amount of flexibility that is going to service people the best when they let the system randomly match them with players of varying skill levels and experiences.

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There is a difference between, not having experienced the dungeon, and wasting people time. When you are lets say a BLM, that is only spamming blizzard 1 the entire dungeon, you are wasting peoples time. Would you be happy is some one was doing that? You would probably address it. It can be very frustrating when you have people at level 90 that a have absolutely 0 idea on how to play the game. I blame the game for being almost too casual and not teaching people how to play to get through the game as much as I blame the players for not caring to learn to play a class after 90 levels and what I would assume several hundred hours of play time. You can argue this is not dark souls, but if you played dark souls for 300+ hours, I would assume you know how to play the game at least a basic level.

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Originally Posted by Velvet_Lunarfang

I saw a video and Asmogold talked about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1fH...el=AsmongoldTV

So is it a disease? I mean if all that these people care about maybe it is?

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I report everyone using it

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

I report everyone using it

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You’re probably going to be 80 years old by the time you finish if you started 5 years ago lol. You underestimate how many people use it.

Personally, I have rarely seen people talk about parses in a dungeon or use it in a toxic manner. Who knows though I don't pay attention to chat, I am there do to what I need to do and move on. I have seen people ask me about how they parsed in extremes or in savage. I will usually give them the number, and 9 times out of 10 that person also starts to improve that number after asking. I have replaced people with low parses, in extremes or in savage, but it was almost always based on performance of mechanics the parse was just a secondary reason to help the decision making. I have cleared content with people with low parses, I have cleared with dark knight who's parse was so low they didn't even show up a grey % on FFlogs. It matters very little over all so long as total DPS > required DPS, which with how easy the game has gotten is not hard to do anymore.

Parsers are there to help gauge your own performance and the performance of premade groups. Go into a dungeon, there are no dps checks so parsing really doesn't matter and the thought of dps should not be brought up.

However, you people claiming it is a problem because it is used in party finder are laughable. Of course it is used in party finder for savage and extremes. It doesn't matter if it is a static or not. Party finder leaders can filter on whatever criteria they want and if you dont like it make your own party. Dps matters there and not knowing who the weak link is for replacement is a waste of everyone's time trying to get a clear. Stop looking for a carry and crying the victim when someone points it out. Its not toxic to say, "Sry, but your performance simply isnt up to par so we are going to find someone else." So report all the people who even mention act in chat, you aren't doing anything because unless you are actually being attacked and shamed, no one cares. ACT and cactbot are heavily used and if that was in doubt, just try running 24mans on a patch day before it gets fixed. The performance of the groups is like night and day.

Just how many times are the people insisting it's affecting casual content so much experiencing any mention of parsing in casual content?
I'm just genuinely curious here. Is this a DC thing? Is it common on NA DCs? Chaos? JP DCs? Because I rarely see it on Light.

Seriously, I see it so incredibly rarely when doing roulettes, spamming dungeons to level, farming alli raids and even when farming Ex that it sticks out like a sore thumb and I remember it quite clearly. And I'm doing a lot of DF, it's my go-to for leveling classes because I dislike PotD/ HoH/ fate spam.
And I'm not kidding that ever since EW release I haven't encountered a single mention of someone parsing, let alone using it against others, in chat there. Not a single one. The most I've seen was a tank saying that they'll pull smaller with a, and I quote, "sry things died slower than i thought" - which isn't even in the same ball park as mentioning parsers because all that takes is the average attention span of a housefly. And person in LotA asking if the healer is afk or why they are never casting anything and getting a "it's just an alli raid, not here to parse my dude" in return.

But reading through some posts I get the impression it's something people encounter every few duties in a very explicite way.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Just how many times are the people insisting it's affecting casual content so much experiencing any mention of parsing in casual content?
I'm just genuinely curious here. Is this a DC thing? Is it common on NA DCs? Chaos? JP DCs? Because I rarely see it on Light.

Seriously, I see it so incredibly rarely when doing roulettes, spamming dungeons to level, farming alli raids and even when farming Ex that it sticks out like a sore thumb and I remember it quite clearly. And I'm doing a lot of DF, it's my go-to for leveling classes because I dislike PotD/ HoH/ fate spam.
And I'm not kidding that ever since EW release I haven't encountered a single mention of someone parsing, let alone using it against others, in chat there. Not a single one. The most I've seen was a tank saying that they'll pull smaller with a, and I quote, "sry things died slower than i thought" - which isn't even in the same ball park as mentioning parsers because all that takes is the average attention span of a housefly. And person in LotA asking if the healer is afk or why they are never casting anything and getting a "it's just an alli raid, not here to parse my dude" in return.

But reading through some posts I get the impression it's something people encounter every few duties in a very explicite way.

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Last time I really saw it prominently was Skip Soar or disband in HW after the first WoW exodus. Which it did not surprise me at that time. I just cleared it with 2 tanks so soar didn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

There is.

Report them and it probably gets them banned because being mean to others because of it and mentioning parsers can absolutely get you banned.

It's LITERALLY don't talk about it or else you risk a ban?
They're doing themself no favor in mentioning it and being a dick about it, you just have to report them.


So anybody saying "can't stop people being mean about mentioning it" apparently doesnt know that this game has a pretty strict "you can parse but dont dare mention it ingame" policy for a long long time? Even i know of it...
I have NEVER seen anybody being bullied about their numbers.

What i have seen is... as i would call it "absolutely toxic casuals", but might just be a me thing? Can't talk for everybody, but i doubt it's as bad as people say because it still can get you banned if you mention parsing lol.
But being toxic about not wanting any help and stuff is fine so that's what more people are in my experience.

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I have reported people and seen them later on still playing. I know many are simply given warnings but without any sort of acknowledgement I can never be sure.

parsing is not a disease.

Mental illness thinking parses matter is a disease.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

parsing is not a disease.

Mental illness thinking parses matter is a disease.

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I get the impression you didn't actually watch the video...or a lot of other people posting here in general.

It's less about the act of parsing itself and more about how the culture formed around it can be problematic though the title of the video is kind of deliberately misleading in that regard because the maker very well knows that saying or implying parsing is bad is an easy way to get people's attention.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Just how many times are the people insisting it's affecting casual content so much experiencing any mention of parsing in casual content?
I'm just genuinely curious here. Is this a DC thing? Is it common on NA DCs? Chaos? JP DCs? Because I rarely see it on Light.

Seriously, I see it so incredibly rarely when doing roulettes, spamming dungeons to level, farming alli raids and even when farming Ex that it sticks out like a sore thumb and I remember it quite clearly. And I'm doing a lot of DF, it's my go-to for leveling classes because I dislike PotD/ HoH/ fate spam.
And I'm not kidding that ever since EW release I haven't encountered a single mention of someone parsing, let alone using it against others, in chat there. Not a single one. The most I've seen was a tank saying that they'll pull smaller with a, and I quote, "sry things died slower than i thought" - which isn't even in the same ball park as mentioning parsers because all that takes is the average attention span of a housefly. And person in LotA asking if the healer is afk or why they are never casting anything and getting a "it's just an alli raid, not here to parse my dude" in return.

But reading through some posts I get the impression it's something people encounter every few duties in a very explicite way.

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While I don't do higher end content myself, I can't say I've ever seen it come up in the more casual level content that I do (NA, Crystal DC here). Most runs of anything I do are completely smooth. Occasionally you will get a slower group or a clearly less experienced tank/healer but that just means the run is a couple minutes slower at worst. I pretty much never see the absolutely terrible don't know what an AOE is, Ice Mage, dead weight and proud of it player that some people complain about, and I also almost never see the completely toxic, elitist parsing everyone in a levelling roulette caricature either. The vast majority of players are perfectly capable at playing their jobs and don't mind being helpful and stopping to explain something if someone has a question. There's not a ton of random conversation but that's largely just because most people want to get in and do the content, not visit a social club. As is often the case, the forum opinion is not really indicative of actual in game experience.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Just how many times are the people insisting it's affecting casual content so much experiencing any mention of parsing in casual content?
I'm just genuinely curious here. Is this a DC thing? Is it common on NA DCs? Chaos? JP DCs? Because I rarely see it on Light.

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Not that I can see aplenty in NA. Then again I've only been in the game for barely 2 years.

I (re)ran a lot of roulette & niche dungeons (BSF/Eureka and their raids), and there were only exactly 3 (THREE) times I saw another player incriminates themselves about the use of parse.

• "Man, you crazy damage RDM! You doing <insert number> DPS :D Things were melting!" --- some random NIN that I got paired with in Heroes' Gauntlet back in 5.3. They said this after the tank and healer left the duty while I wait for my loot.
• "How is he doing <insert number> DPS?!" --- some random MCH in Delubrum Reginae (Normal). They blurt this in party chat in the middle of Trinity Avowed encounter & this draws the attention of the party to the point they just stop talking altogether.
• "Yo this is parse run?"
  > "Yeah."
  "Count me in bruh." --- said by two particular random GNB and RPR in P1N when I was trying to win my weekly loot. Now this one I took my time after duty completion to report the GNB because everytime somebody did not heed the pull timer or they made 'mistake' they just run toward the wall, demanding a reset. I saw this behavior as a nuisance because I never signed up for a 'parse run' via regular DF queue. If I (probably) want any, I would make or join an existing PF. Then again, I avoid PF like plague so, whatever.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

And person in LotA asking if the healer is afk or why they are never casting anything and getting a "it's just an alli raid, not here to parse my dude" in return.

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This one however, do come up from time to time. And it's almost always whenever an individual groans or make a comment of how slow a duty was progressing. There's some odds that another player will just jump in to say "Bro chill, who parses <insert duty>?" or some other lines similar to that, it's as if it is a grave sin to make that comment from first place. Personally I had a similar experience just once in Heroes' Gauntlet with a BLM that did not know what they're doing. I've written this story in the older TfDF thread, but long story short:

Me (WAR):"Ah, stuffs are dying very slowly x_x"
BLM:"What's your problem?"
Me (WAR):"...None? I'm just expressing my honest thoughts."

Parsing has only become a meme because savage has become so easy clearing is no longer an achievement, it means absolutely nothing, people cares a lot less about parses in ultimates, some do, but they are specials, parsing, doing better each reclear, is the only enjoyment most people now find in savage.
Everyone cared a lot less about parses in coil, gordias, midas, they only expected you to do the damage you were supposed to, but that's not parse autism, that's just asking you to not be deadweight.

Anything the hardcore minority pushes should be reportable

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

Anything the hardcore minority pushes should be reportable

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I can't wait for when your Ultimate-progressing alt is discovered. There was another troll similar to you sometime ago on the healer forums.

The person who made the vid sure was Madge. Parsing is not a disease though, most people who make a big hoopla about it have personal problems. Like they don't like to be told they aren't good by a computer, or don't even do real endgame content, and really are people you don't want in a static too. Generally any decent group is going to run the abacus, it's meant to ensure success.

It's a disease in the sense that it makes many people play in a stupid and/or risky manner even outside of parsing groups for the sake of getting big numbers when it's not necessary.

I can't begin count the number of times I've wiped on savage reclears because of someone who just had to get one last GCD and/or positional off before trying to do a mechanic that will kill someone/everyone if they're not on time.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It's a disease in the sense that it makes many people play in a stupid and/or risky manner even outside of parsing groups for the sake of getting big numbers when it's not necessary.

I can't begin count the number of times I've wiped on savage reclears because of someone who just had to get one last GCD and/or positional off before trying to do a mechanic that will kill someone/everyone if they're not on time.

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Then the healer doesn't heal them and they die and the healer says they need their MP to cast attack spells and using it to heal them would lower their DPS so the DPS needs to stop dying faster than 0MP cooldowns refresh... >.> lol

Parsing's useful for personal improvement, even the video states this.

The "disease" is the social aspect of parsing, when people do the dumbest things in the world and wipe your clear, when people try to argue your grey isn't a "valid" clear when, frankly, boss is dead, it's also a criticism on how people take the numbers out of context and don't actually know how to read them, how a lot of people who care so much about Parsing actively complain about the little nuances in classes they don't like because they find it difficult to Do Good Parse on and when SE caves to public opinion, ruin the class for the people who Liked It; the people who Like every boss being a striking dummy that requires the brainpower of a dead hamster to optimize, the people who get so bent out of shape about balance of jobs they'd actively blacklist Paladins or Dancers from Savage prior to the buffs those classes received, and so on. How so many people put their entire sense of self-worth and self-validation for existing upon this Earth because they're on a scoreboard no one's going to remember in less than a year.

I mean, granted this isn't even related to SE and is a third party thing so w/e, but worth mentioning:

the most interesting thing there is in P3S to optimize is the adds phase.

Guess what doesn't count for rankings, lmao.