Monk Positionals 6.0

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Just within this threat we've seen people who openly admit they aren't playing the job saying that they've been wanting the positional requirements removed. Though beyond that it's impossible to quantify, and I highly doubt anyone has been making spreadsheets that show if someone mains the job and if they support the removal of the requirements.

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*Frantically searching for my years of spreadsheet data on US and JP server forums over the debate of Monk positionals*

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Just within this threat we've seen people who openly admit they aren't playing the job saying that they've been wanting the positional requirements removed. Though beyond that it's impossible to quantify, and I highly doubt anyone has been making spreadsheets that show if someone mains the job and if they support the removal of the requirements.

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Absolutely it can't be so lets stay away from sweeping statements assuming the majority arbitrarily agree your stance

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Absolutely it can't be so lets stay away from sweeping statements assuming the majority arbitrarily agree your stance

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We can see that the retention of positional attacks has the greater community support when you look through monk threads, even just this one, and see that people arguing to retain them have more up votes than people who say they should be (or are happy that they are) removed. Yes forum users are only a subset of the community, and no one is saying if they main the job or not, but the stance of keeping the requirements had more support than removing them.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

With the greatest respect, where is your data, where are you getting this belief that the vast majority of people who want positionals removed don't play the job?

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Because every single time this topic comes up it is always the same argument. I would play Monk but positionals push me away. You rarely see a Monk main who has played the job for an extended period say, while I do enjoy Monk, I wish it's positionals were removed/lessened.

You can apply the same logic to any job. I'm sure yourself has a job that you do not like to play. Do you often wonder, if only X was changed or Y removed, I might play that job. That is exactly what is happening here. No, we cannot claim to know the whims of everyone, I'm sure there are plenty of people who are indifferent, however, their opinion doesn't contribute to the discussion one way or the other as they just do not care.

SO really, following the logic and the consistency between the countless threads, yes, it is the players who do not play Monk because of positionals who want positionals removed so that they can play Monk whilst disregarding what the actual people who play Monk want.

Welp. Horde mentality won out in the end. Because accepting that you have to try on a job to do decent on it is apparently too overwhelming. Have fun with MNK I suppose, because it's certainly no longer made for the people who've been playing it for the past decade.

I think I'll just save myself a headache and go play BLM.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Welp. Horde mentality won out in the end. Because accepting that you have to try on a job to do decent on it is apparently too overwhelming. Have fun with MNK I suppose, because it's certainly no longer made for the people who've been playing it for the past decade.

I think I'll just save myself a headache and go play BLM.

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dont they always? whens the last beneficial change they made to the game that didnt make it accessibile to the horde

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Because every single time this topic comes up it is always the same argument. I would play Monk but positionals push me away. You rarely see a Monk main who has played the job for an extended period say, while I do enjoy Monk, I wish it's positionals were removed/lessened.

You can apply the same logic to any job. I'm sure yourself has a job that you do not like to play. Do you often wonder, if only X was changed or Y removed, I might play that job. That is exactly what is happening here. No, we cannot claim to know the whims of everyone, I'm sure there are plenty of people who are indifferent, however, their opinion doesn't contribute to the discussion one way or the other as they just do not care.

SO really, following the logic and the consistency between the countless threads, yes, it is the players who do not play Monk because of positionals who want positionals removed so that they can play Monk whilst disregarding what the actual people who play Monk want.

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and to add to that if they take away the positionals and those people do try it, there's no telling that they will even like the class and now the monk playerbase lost more people because they removed an aspect that people liked and played the class for

Why the heck remove an additional two positional on the job!? That makes me really sad to see I was so looking forward to monk even while being sad at losing two already. This is really sad, the extra movement required was part of what made monk fun and unique compared to other melee :(

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Originally Posted by Jirah

dont they always? whens the last beneficial change they made to the game that didnt make it accessibile to the horde

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Except the scales were tipped more towards keeping positionals, I believe this was even the case in the JP forums as well, so I really do not see how they thought that removing positionals was what was actually desired.

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Originally Posted by jerome15

and to add to that if they take away the positionals and those people do try it, there's no telling that they will even like the class and now the monk playerbase lost more people because they removed an aspect that people liked and played the class for

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But there is equal chance that they will love and people will flock to it, so again lets stop making up hypotheticals to support our stance

Yes, there is a chance, however for players who have played Monk for an extended period of time, they should be able to have a good grasp on how the changes will feel to play. Most were content with losing 2 positionals and were willing to give the job a try, but then even more get removed. They really should have tested the waters by keeping it at the 2 positionals first and then adjust from there.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

But there is equal chance that they will love and people will flock to it, so again lets stop making up hypotheticals to support our stance

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If that is the case I think it's going to have a lot more to do with Masterful Blitz than the removal of positionals.....
Positionals have always been a part of melee I have a very hard time believing it's what kept people away, especially in earlier expansions when other melees had more of them.

The stated reason why people didn't play or quit playing MNK was because it was boring and felt like it had lagged behind others.
Masterful Blitz is the solution to that not the removal of positionals.
The removal of positionals only make the downtime more boring and less engaging ( on top of less ogcd's too, it's just less overall... ).

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Yes, there is a chance, however for players who have played Monk for an extended period of time, they should be able to have a good grasp on how the changes will feel to play. Most were content with losing 2 positionals and were willing to give the job a try, but then even more get removed. They really should have tested the waters by keeping it at the 2 positionals first and then adjust from there.

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The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals. And TBH I agree with you I think its an unnecessary change and one I would have preferred didn't happen but it is nowhere near a big enough to change to make me stop maining the job I love. If they had removes GL traits then I would walk away from Monk and go back to Ninja

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Originally Posted by Jirah

dont they always? whens the last beneficial change they made to the game that didnt make it accessibile to the horde

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To be fair, I don't think it's a bad move to try to cater to a large percentage of a player base. Only thing I could draw a tangent to would be League of Legends, that says what changes affect what skill level (These changes are mainly visible in ____ level gameplay). It'd be nice if Square Enix didn't only focus on the iron/bronze/silver, even if it is roughly ~60% or so (I don't know, I don't play anymore)

I always say this, but yes, something needed to change. There should be a line though that if the changes cater to a group directly conflict with the pre-established long-lived group that already existed though. The compromise was 2 positionals (Rip Raptor Form) which honestly I was going to live with, but the Opo-Opo positionals are just overkill clearly catering to the players who complain the most.

A change I was more ready to accept was a chakra overhaul, which yes, we got a new system, but it's clearly just a Samurai/Ninja knock-off. The 5-chakra system is just bland and could have easily been improved upon if they just considered some of the many fan recommendations.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals. And TBH I agree I think its an unnecessary change and one I would have preferred didn't happen but it is nowhere near a big enough to change to make me stop raining the job I love. If they had removes GL traits then I would walk away from Monk and go back to Ninja

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lol. Could you imagine a day when they remove Greased Lightning? Oh wait....

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals. And TBH I agree I think its an unnecessary change and one I would have preferred didn't happen but it is nowhere near a big enough to change to make me stop raining the job I love. If they had removes GL traits then I would walk away from Monk and go back to Ninja

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The thing is there, they already announced that in the fan fest stream that they'd be removing the positional requirements on twin snakes and true strike, and this was done to enable masterful blitz to work more smoothly. Speaking for myself, I didn't love the removal of the requirements but was okay with it since it still kept the core of the job relatively in tact, and it could be seen to make the job more accessible to more players, since the job would go from 6 positional requirements to 4. But now they've gone from 6 requirements to 2, which has removed a big part of the job's classic identity it's had since 2.0.

To put it in perspective here's the number of skils with requirements by melee job:
DRG : 3
NIN : 3
SAM : 2
RPR : 2
MNK : 2

One of ninja's requirements is on Trick Attack, so now dragoon is the positional king, and it still has only half of what monk had just 24 hours ago. Leaving monk at 4 skills that require a position would have been fine, and a concession to make it seem less intimidating for more players to try out.

The real thing is while monk might have seemed intimidating for its positional requirements, it also just didn't have the draw of exciting skills like jumps, iajutsu, and ninjutsu like other jobs had. Monk has been using its same 6 skill rotation and generic OGCD skills for 7 years now. Masterful blitz is a move in the right direction, but I don't think it's warranted all the other cuts the job got in order to accommodate it.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals. And TBH I agree I think its an unnecessary change and one I would have preferred didn't happen but it is nowhere near a big enough to change to make me stop raining the job I love. If they had removes GL traits then I would walk away from Monk and go back to Ninja

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By the lgoic BLM should be way overdo for a rework as it is eclipsed by RDM, logically does popularity make any sence in terms of watering down a job? no it never does as popualr objects or profitables ones are never of value. Mcdonlds serves 1 billion ppl but il still dine at a mom and pop shop despite "not being popular"

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

But there is equal chance that they will love and people will flock to it, so again lets stop making up hypotheticals to support our stance

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That´s a vague statement. Of course noone knows what´s going to happen. But in fact the most ppl who showed up at any time have been in casuals. And casuals in final look like the following:

- They do play any class, but don´t put much efford into them. They swap as they want and mostly prefer QoL classes over real gameplay. Which last in the masses of DNC or healer / RDM in content like bodzja since they know they´re going to die and can rezz easily.
- They don´t play the endgame (savage content)... the only content where positionals on MNK need to be played.
- They do play EX content, but even there they don´t perform really well.
- They have no clue about good / bad or balancing, since they just don´t care and want to be insane.

Maybe they´ll like the new MNK, they´ll atleast try it, for sure. But i´m convinced that they´ll never main or try to master it. They play the game for other reasons than "having a mainclass and compete in the endgame". It´s more about "pewpew, glam and social features". That´s why any gaming company should give much about feedback from casuals when we talk about gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

The issue is that Monk is by far the least played melee DPS job and yes the census stats support that. And rightly or wrongly the devs believe the reason for this is positionals.

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1st it was being unable to play positionals, so we got true north and RoE.
2nd it was caused by greased lightning, so we got TK and anatman.
3rd it was GL again, so they got ride of it.
Now it´s positionals again, so they get ride of it.

Does it make sense that the whole class is an issue in itself? I say no!

Just because a class is the least played, doesn´t mean it´s a bad one. Ppl claim BLM to be perfect, but there are not more BLM players than MNK players. On is the most static and one the class with the highest mobility and both of them get highly rewarded or punished for playing well / doing mistakes. Any other classes are just way easier to play or in case of SAM / DNC self-carry classes where you´re able to perform quite bad but still having a decent output.

So far, it´s nothing but BS to get ride of MNK positionals and i promise that the player on MNK won´t grow. If anything, it´ll probably get worse since all the MNK mains got slapped into their face meanwhile the mighty casuals will always fall back on easier and stronger classes. The new braindead SMN will finish the holy braindead relationship between melees, ranges and caster. MNK will be lost in space.

Just wanted to chime in to voice my disappointment and disagreement with the removal of additional positional vis-à-vis what was presented during the media tour. Please reconsider this change!

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Originally Posted by Ezzeloharr

Just wanted to chime in to voice my disappointment and disagreement with the removal of additional positional vis-à-vis what was presented during the media tour. Please reconsider this change!

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Here here, Brother! Appreciate the login for the support :D

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Originally Posted by Yokubo

To be fair, I don't think it's a bad move to try to cater to a large percentage of a player base. Only thing I could draw a tangent to would be League of Legends, that says what changes affect what skill level (These changes are mainly visible in ____ level gameplay). It'd be nice if Square Enix didn't only focus on the iron/bronze/silver, even if it is roughly ~60% or so (I don't know, I don't play anymore)

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It´s around 80%... then you´ve like 18% in gold / plat and only ~2% in diamond+.

And they do a good job by "catering" only the upper 2% when we talk about balancing and stuff. If you would start to cater the 80%, the game would go nuts since everything is going to be braindead overpowered. Not saying, that it´s not the case somehow, but stuff like world championships couldn´t be a thing. That´s why any feedback, which should be kept in mind when we talk about gameplay, should come from years long mains and top players, not those who either can´t play their class or jump on the metatrain at any time.

it's unfortunate, but i feel like they're kind of just testing the waters with these changes. i think they planned them out before even media tour, but figured it would be easier to digest at 2 separate times (twin/true first and then boot/dk later). that or they put conflicting information in the job guide to see how people would react and if there's too much backlash they can easily just go "my bad, the skills at the top are wrong, boot/dk didn't lose positionals," but if there's no much resistance they can go ahead and get rid of the 4. just my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by jerome15

it's unfortunate, but i feel like they're kind of just testing the waters with these changes. i think they planned them out before even media tour, but figured it would be easier to digest at 2 separate times (twin/true first and then boot/dk later). that or they put conflicting information in the job guide to see how people would react and if there's too much backlash they can easily just go "my bad, the skills at the top are wrong, boot/dk didn't lose positionals," but if there's no much resistance they can go ahead and get rid of the 4. just my thoughts.

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Seriously... removing even 1! positional is too much. There is no need to remove any of them. They just take possibilities to grow, to get better or to optimize the output away from the class. Not to mention the whole fun aspect which comes from being mobile at any time. I would always prefer positionals on any skill (even oGCD´s) instead of a Blitz-mechanic, which is nothing but 123 - burst, 123 - burst from any other class. The rinse and repeat rotations without any positioning and stuff is nothing but boring.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Seriously... removing even 1! positional is too much. There is no need to remove any of them. They just take possibilities to grow, to get better or to optimize the output away from the class. Not to mention the whole fun aspect which comes from being mobile at any time. I would always prefer positionals on any skill (even oGCD´s) instead of a Blitz-mechanic, which is nothing but 123 - burst, 123 - burst from any other class. The rinse and repeat rotations without any positioning and stuff is nothing but boring.

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personally i am fine whit them removing 2, albeit i prefer if they remove none, especially since monk now has almost literally zero ogcds outside of mnk selfbuffs, brotherhood and then TFC or enlightment spam under brotherhood , and spaming that will only happen once every 120s
but i guess this happened because yoshida and dev team felt overwhelmed by the job gameplay somehow?

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

It´s around 80%... then you´ve like 18% in gold / plat and only ~2% in diamond+.

And they do a good job by "catering" only the upper 2% when we talk about balancing and stuff. If you would start to cater the 80%, the game would go nuts since everything is going to be braindead overpowered. Not saying, that it´s not the case somehow, but stuff like world championships couldn´t be a thing. That´s why any feedback, which should be kept in mind when we talk about gameplay, should come from years long mains and top players, not those who either can´t play their class or jump on the metatrain at any time.

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I mean yes and no. I'd say a large majority of the player base is asking for more Glamour Plates. Just because it doesn't come [only] from the long-time players doesn't mean it's any less of a valid request. However taking your statement and generalizing it to the game verses class changes seems unfair and I see where you're coming from. If a large majority of players aren't able to keep up with positionals, I feel there are better ways to go about it. Base damage increase and just lower the potency payoff from 60 to 40 perhaps. Positionals have done well to keep melee DPS unique from other MMORPGs and even if some players don't like it, Square Enix should recognize that it does well to set them apart from their competitors (Not that their competitors are doing so well at the moment).

With that aside, I can understand some feedback from (how to put...) the lesser veteraned players being a good indicator of where the learning curve is, but the curve itself shouldn't be tangled to that all players feel immediately mastering a class before it's even max level....

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

That´s a vague statement. Of course noone knows what´s going to happen. But in fact the most ppl who showed up at any time have been in casuals. And casuals in final look like the following:

- They do play any class, but don´t put much efford into them. They swap as they want and mostly prefer QoL classes over real gameplay. Which last in the masses of DNC or healer / RDM in content like bodzja since they know they´re going to die and can rezz easily.
- They don´t play the endgame (savage content)... the only content where positionals on MNK need to be played.
- They do play EX content, but even there they don´t perform really well.
- They have no clue about good / bad or balancing, since they just don´t care and want to be insane.

Maybe they´ll like the new MNK, they´ll atleast try it, for sure. But i´m convinced that they´ll never main or try to master it. They play the game for other reasons than "having a mainclass and compete in the endgame". It´s more about "pewpew, glam and social features". That´s why any gaming company should give much about feedback from casuals when we talk about gameplay.

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Yeah and like it or not the people who you (quite condescendingly) describe make up the vast majority of the player base and paying subs, if you were a game dev would you make changes to keep the top 10% of hardcore players happy or the other 90% casuals as you call them. Ever thing maybe you are the problem and this isn't the game for you

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Originally Posted by Morzy

The job is busy pre-endwalker, and I agree that it would be quite busy if monk kept all six positionals moving forward into Endwalker.

My issue is the lack of communication from SE about this. Were we not told that only Twin Snakes and True Strike would lose positional requirements? What we have as a result is twice the amount of positional loss than originally communicated.

And I get that things could have changed between the media tour and now, but I don't buy the 'we didn't know monk would end up needing this much reduction in positional requirements' when they had a working template at the time of the media tour.

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Oh... oh dear. D:

Hmmmm, well I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Yeah and like it or not the people who you (quite condescendingly) describe make up the vast majority of the player base and paying subs, if you were a game dev would you make changes to keep the top 10% of hardcore players happy or the other 90% casuals as you call them. Ever thing maybe you are the problem and this isn't the game for you

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Well Square Enix has done well keeping the game new player friendly and the community itself has done quite well to maintain that reputation. I can understand that for the casual players, the game isn't fun if you have people barking at you that you aren't "playing your class properly". In most content you can get by painstakingly if a member is doing severely less than they should (For worst case scenario).

It would be nice to know that Square Enix does have its eye on the other players though trying to make sure that they can enjoy themselves too. And frankly, it seems to me that at this point they've sorta taken sides with the casuals trying to make Monk more freely enjoyable to the casual players without worrying that they're once again "playing their class properly". Like the players who aren't landing positionals aren't the ones complaining that they don't do enough DPS, so why bother fixing the potency to cater to them if it isn't an issue to them?

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Originally Posted by Andy_T93

Yeah and like it or not the people who you (quite condescendingly) describe make up the vast majority of the player base and paying subs, if you were a game dev would you make changes to keep the top 10% of hardcore players happy or the other 90% casuals as you call them. Ever thing maybe you are the problem and this isn't the game for you

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Based on this game?

They do both. They created ultimate raids to keep the top 10% of players happy (based off what percentage of players have actually cleared them) AND they add in content for casual players. It's not a zero sum game, they can do both. They can have complex and busy jobs to appeal to players who enjoy that AND they can have simpler jobs to satisfy those players. And have already shown they can reward players with a higher damage ceiling for playing a complex job well. The problem comes when they remove what some players enjoy so that there's nothing for them.

Not every job is ever going to appeal to every player, nor should they. The variety of jobs and being able to play them all on the same character is exactly why they should have jobs made to appeal to all sorts of players. Even if one job (or race or piece of content) only appeals to 10% of players, that's not a reason to remove it or change it so entirely as to no longer appeal to its audience only to hook the audience you already have.

Pour one out for the jobs losing even more of what made them unique.

I already gave up on monk years ago with the SB/SHB changes but man, this is just really depressing to see.

The job isn't even recognizable anymore with GL, all the OCGDS, TOD/fracture, original DK and 4/6 positionals gone. At least I'll still have the memories of ARR/HW monk that I loved playing.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Except the scales were tipped more towards keeping positionals, I believe this was even the case in the JP forums as well, so I really do not see how they thought that removing positionals was what was actually desired.

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The people who comment on the official forums of games tend to be the more hardcore tip of the population.

Well. I wanted to change mains from MCH to have more of a skill ceiling, but...gosh. If I wasn't a slave to aesthetic I'd maybe look elsewhere.

Sigh. I instinctively feel devils-advocate with these things most of the time, and sure every 3rd gcd in general will be positional, but...ehhhhhh. I don't know. My reaction is negative. Maybe the increased speed if true will offset that void, but I feel like it's replacing joy of execution with joy of...ease? When I signed up for MCH I wanted a complex support. It makes sense why it is how it is now and I could make peace and move on. I've mained MNK before, and I was signing back up for "the dance" and now it's baby's first melee. I know Heavensward had too much complexity across the board but come on...I'm not knocking those who like simpler classes either, I just...arghghg it's frustrating on a personal level when all the classes I love lose what I love about them even if it brings others to the job.

I'll likely still go through the story on it and give it a chance but I don't see why this was necessary. Is it because Mr Happy asked for more speed in his interview? I don't get it, apart from pre pull timer wonkiness and Anatman being the most passive-aggresive skill in the game people were singing it's praises from the media tour.

Jesus Christ i really hope they lowered GCD from 2,5s to 2,0, if not i'm gonna be mad with this mess...
I kinda understand why they remove positionals when you have 1,6s skill speed but pleaaaase lower GCD or give us back positionals otherwise the forum will burn lol !

Removing positionals from Monk is really like removing the fire jump of DRG, breaking even more identity, more boring, 123 Blitz is not funny...
But... Hey let's cool down a bit and try out before the keyboard get his life ended : )

I was really excited for MNK going into Endwalker, but now I'm really not so sure. It was busywork, but it kept you moving and it felt engaging. We have so many jobs that eschew that function, so taking it away from the MNK just leaves me scratching my head. There are so many other options out there for people who don't like MNK already.

Maybe that 2.0 base GCD (assuming it's not an error) changes the feeling significantly in a way that keeps things interesting, but I see myself giving up on MNK after really getting back into it near the end of ShB for the first time since HW.

I just picked up MNK in ShB, and I would not have invested the time I did into it if I did not enjoy the job. It shined above all the other jobs I leveled to 60 when making a decision on which job I would add to the others I have maxed out. Positional skills were a part of that, so I can sympathize with career MNKs who have mained the job for years. However, position skills were also part of my frustration with the job, and BootShine and Dragon Kick were two of those frustrations.

It wasn't so much of the position requirements rather than this awareness was also added to knowing which one I used last. For MNKs who have been doing this for a while, I would imagine it is second nature. To novice MNKs like myself, it has lead to a lot of discouragement. I am sure long time MNK mains endured the same along their journey, but it is difficult to deal with. At least it has been for me.

I could see if nothing new was added to MNK, and then these requirements were still taken away. That would feel like they have dumbed down the job. MNK has an entirely new mech now though with beast chakra. You have to be aware of your chakra and nadi acquisition, and I can certainly see how adding positional requirements with this set up would have resulted in a lot of lost potency. I have a strong feeling that we will notice and eventually agree with the decision to remove those requirements.

I for one am strongly looking forward to MNK in EW. It is the job I chose to close ShB with, and will be the job I'm set to when I hop on the ship in Limsa to Sharlyan.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

I was really excited for MNK going into Endwalker, but now I'm really not so sure. It was busywork, but it kept you moving and it felt engaging. We have so many jobs that eschew that function, so taking it away from the MNK just leaves me scratching my head. There are so many other options out there for people who don't like MNK already.

Maybe that 2.0 base GCD (assuming it's not an error) changes the feeling significantly in a way that keeps things interesting, but I see myself giving up on MNK after really getting back into it near the end of ShB for the first time since HW.

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The 2.0 base gcd is taking GL into account. reduce 2.5 by 20% and it's 2.0. i feel ya on the giving up on monk. I just returned a couple months ago kinda hyped for the endwalker changes since they actually added stuff after gutting the class for shadowbringers, but it just seems like it's more gutting to make it slightly flashier

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I just picked up MNK in ShB, and I would not have invested the time I did into it if I did not enjoy the job. It shined above all the other jobs I leveled to 60 when making a decision on which job I would add to the others I have maxed out. Positional skills were a part of that, so I can sympathize with career MNKs who have mained the job for years. However, position skills were also part of my frustration with the job, and BootShine and Dragon Kick were two of those frustrations.

It wasn't so much of the position requirements rather than this awareness was also added to knowing which one I used last. For MNKs who have been doing this for a while, I would imagine it is second nature. To novice MNKs like myself, it has lead to a lot of discouragement. I am sure long time MNK mains endured the same along their journey, but it is difficult to deal with. At least it has been for me.

I could see if nothing new was added to MNK, and then these requirements were still taken away. That would feel like they have dumbed down the job. MNK has an entirely new mech now though with beast chakra. You have to be aware of your chakra and nadi acquisition, and I can certainly see how adding positional requirements with this set up would have resulted in a lot of lost potency. I have a strong feeling that we will notice and eventually agree with the decision to remove those requirements.

I for one am strongly looking forward to MNK in EW. It is the job I chose to close ShB with, and will be the job I'm set to when I hop on the ship in Limsa to Sharlyan.

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except the blitz system is actually taking more away. you're using pb as you normally would but only doing 3 skills instead of 5, 2 of your 3 blitzes will be doing your gcd combos as normal where the 3rd is only repeating the same form button and then just using a gcd finisher, but we lost two ogcd's and 4 out of 6 positionals.

Even as someone who isn't a huge fan of positionals, this just feels weird to me. Part of Monk's identity right from the beginning was having positionals being a large portion of their gameplay (even if they later ended up with multiple ways to cancel out the requirement) and the new Blitz thing really doesn't add enough to make up for the loss. While I might be more personally inclined to play Monk now I don't think this was a good change for the class as a whole, especially for those who've actually stood by it for so many years with all of it's issues.

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Even as someone who isn't a huge fan of positionals, this just feels weird to me. Part of Monk's identity right from the beginning was having positionals being a large portion of their gameplay (even if they later ended up with multiple ways to cancel out the requirement) and the new Blitz thing really doesn't add enough to make up for the loss. While I might be more personally inclined to play Monk now I don't think this was a good change for the class as a whole, especially for those who've actually stood by it for so many years with all of it's issues.

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it's unfortunate that they were even looking at removing 2 to begin with. just kinda shows they already have their foot in the door to removing most of them. i feel like even if we make a big enough stink and they give us back 2 of the 4 that they're taking it seems like they're really eyeing that and that all 4 will eventually be removed, maybe even all 6. someone in the discord made the point that after demolish you could move to the flank and essentially just sit there for 8 gcd's which just makes it sound even worse

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Originally Posted by jerome15

The 2.0 base gcd is taking GL into account. reduce 2.5 by 20% and it's 2.0. i feel ya on the giving up on monk. I just returned a couple months ago kinda hyped for the endwalker changes since they actually added stuff after gutting the class for shadowbringers, but it just seems like it's more gutting to make it slightly flashier



except the blitz system is actually taking more away. you're using pb as you normally would but only doing 3 skills instead of 5, 2 of your 3 blitzes will be doing your gcd combos as normal where the 3rd is only repeating the same form button and then just using a gcd finisher, but we lost two ogcd's and 4 out of 6 positionals.

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Previous PB spammed two skills to expend 6 stacks. It was brainless. PB can now utilize all skills within a given form, and awareness has to be placed on which ones you do use due to the Nadi, and the skills locked behind them. We can also use PB every 40s, instead of 90s. How this can be seen as taking away from MNK is beyond my comprehension.

Losing Shoulder Tackle as an oGCD is welcomed. I won't pretend to not be aware of how awkward most MNKs felt using this skill between GCDs. Calling it a "loss" now is moot. Tornado Kick was reallocated, and we now have Riddle of Wind to weave every 90s, which I believe will just "feel good' to use in between GCDs.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but I believe SSS has been adjusted so it functions outside the GCD, but will place its recast on all skills meaning you can use it immediately after a GCD. If this is the case, it is also an improvement.