The HORRENDOUS State of Housing

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Originally Posted by Ihaf_Frethyme

It's a layer that lets people actually play the game and kills botters. I think you need to go back and reread it. It still had the random timer, existing house owners can still transfer with out entering the raffle. People can only enter once (an idea of getting 1 additional entry when you lose a raffle but I could go either way on that). This still bashes house sellers as they USE BOTS to get houses. Again you say "no" but actually fail to give any substantial reasons why. Lots of that on here; at least you were a bit more polite about it, ty.

House destruction isn't coming back for at least a year then there's the month and a half of time it takes for the hose to actually be destroyed. I'm not holding my breath for that.

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The main reason is because it removes any required effort. Which is a key pillar of the design. You might not like the current gameplay of that effort and can offer alternatives, but you can't remove it outright. (well at least not while expecting it to get picked up)

And for context. The raffle/lottery idea has been around for as long as I can remember, and here we are.

You guys are not going to get through someone who is desperate for housing. As he is desperate he is going to think that his idea is going to be the ultimate resolutions. Especially he is new therefore he is not going to take your words.

Yes we all know that lottery system is the worst idea ever but as he is desperate, he will go for that because he will see it may increase his chance slightly. No sir, you are not going to be benefit from this lol lottery system because if SE is going to put into the game; it will make you to compete against entire server because of “fairness”

Yeah, chances are that people who don't even bother with housing because it's not worth the effort to them would come out of the woodworks with a housing raffle and you'd end up going from competing against a handful of people in a setting where you have some control to competing with a ton of people and no control. Then odds are we'd be reading posts about how it takes too long in this very forum even after it's turned into a 0 effort endeavor.

The novelty of having a house and decorating wears off quick and soon you're stuck with Yoshi's sunk cost demolition train. Get yourself an apartment if you want to decorate so badly. It's just not worth it at all in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

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We will never agree. PVP require symetrical confrontation and the possibility for new players who meet the requirments to take part in the challenge . Someone who already has a house and can move just like that without any kind of PVP is nothing but some kind of "Fait du Prince". And people who spend hours clicking are not aware if someone who already has a house intends to move. This kind of factor is pure abritrary and random. Someone can jump in the area and just click the right time and get the house only because of latency.

I call that a lottery, not PVP.

And... Personaly I don't care to get a house, since ARR, I've managed three times to get a mansion (two at time, lost, and finally one I've given up) without any kind of presure nor challenge feeling. Currently I just feel bored with restrictions since technically they can do far more and better.

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Originally Posted by GrumbleBeard

The novelty of having a house and decorating wears off quick and soon you're stuck with Yoshi's sunk cost demolition train. Get yourself an apartment if you want to decorate so badly. It's just not worth it at all in my opinion.

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The good thing is that you can give up your house and give it to someone who wants it. Donate today.

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Originally Posted by Edax

The good thing is that you can give up your house and give it to someone who wants it. Donate today.

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My server has plenty of available plots last I saw, so that's not really an issue.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

We will never agree. PVP require symetrical confrontation and the possibility for new players who meet the requirments to take part in the challenge . Someone who already has a house and can move just like that without any kind of PVP is nothing but some kind of "Fait du Prince". And people who spend hours clicking are not aware if someone who already has a house intends to move. This kind of factor is pure abritrary and random. Someone can jump in the area and just click the right time and get the house only because of latency.

I call that a lottery, not PVP.

And... Personaly I don't care to get a house, since ARR, I've managed three times to get a mansion (two at time, lost, and finally one I've given up) without any kind of presure nor challenge feeling. Currently I just feel bored with restrictions since technically they can do far more and better.

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It's not a matter of agreeing. It's a statement of fact. PVP does not require symmetrical confrontation (in fact most multiplayer games have soft-asymmetry and quite a few have strong asymmetry). The entry requirements are the same for everyone but people who've worked their way into house ownership get some advantages, just like how you get deadlier in PVP in FF14 after you kill plenty of people, or how higher levels gank lower levels in wow open-world PVP, etc.. etc..

You're using examples I specifically countered in my previous posts when you discuss how it's a lottery. It's not, go back and check. I suspect that you're trying to say that it "feels like a lottery" at this point. But that is very different from it being a lottery.
A single plot has some attached RNG, sure, but you have a lot of control over that. By changing how long you stay around, which plot you aim for, when you hunt, how active you are on the placard, etc.. Already not a lottery. But in addition to this, house hunting is not handling one single plot but multiple plots. With each new attempt, you increase your odds of getting one. Thus time spent is a huge part of it, alongside which strategy you opt for.

It's going to take time, sure, one can debate that it might take too much time, one can debate that placard spamming is the worse mechanic ever (it is). But it's PVP with a time-based reward system (with some rng, strategy, and a bit of skill depending on the housing phase)

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Originally Posted by EaMett

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As soon as luck is involved, it is not PVP anymore. I will never call "luck" a skill. There's nothing to discuss about it. There no exercise in the world to cultivate to be sure to win to the lottery. Then luck is not a skill.

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Originally Posted by Ihaf_Frethyme

It already is RNG based AND ping based. This idea is perfect, find 1 problem with it and I'll shoot it down.

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Rng combined with the number of players on some worlds trying to get homes. Add in how often and rare homes are on some worlds like Balmung, Depending on your luck you could still spend months or even years of trying to get a home. The random timer sucks but you have a lot of players who want homes but are not trying to get one. You a add raffle and you go from lets say 20 or so people bidding for a one plot to several hundred if not 1k people bidding for it.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

It has to load all the other houses and yards now when a player arrives in the ward anyway, so is it going to make a big difference load up 6 custom ones in place of the default random yard layouts?

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yes right now it's one layout for every account since the ward is shared, no need extra memory, but the one you suggest is 6x per account that multiple the memory requirement by a LOT i means LOTSSS

do correct me if i'm wrong, thank you.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

If I am reading his idea correctly you would only be loading like 7 custom plots.

There would be a single ward map, most plots would be generic. At the placard you can choose whose plot to enter which could be hundreds. When you enter a plot then it loads.

but when you come to your plot you see your stuff, but still have the option of entering other players' plots at the placard (if they are open to guests or you are a tenant). You would have the option of deciding what you see in 6 nearby plots.

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not your loading time, server loading time.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

not your loading time, server loading time.

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That would be a matter of what the server saves as your personal data, and he was unclear about what level of control you would have over these 6. if it was a choice of player plots that already exist on those plots, not much of an issue at all, that's what I'm thinking he means. Meaning you would go to the placard and see that bob's plot is there and chose to see his plot when you walk by. The server has to be able to load any existing plot as it is.

Your example of glamour plates is more a matter of how much space they are willing to devote to your character. This kinda is too, so you would have to save 6 references to 6 existing player's plots.

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Originally Posted by Ihaf_Frethyme

So they messed up, half-assed fixed the issue and its the players faults? All most people in the market for a house want is no bots and to actually play the game. Maybe we need to yell louder.

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I think you misunderstood me. I never assigned blame in my original post(s), but since it's here: Responsibility for any decisions fall on the developers, regardless of how much whining the customers do.

Hello SE,

Just adding on here in a vein I feel is actually constructive outside the bickering. I don't think it's fair that people that pay the same sub cost don't have access to all the features related to housing.

Housing entails gameplay features such as decorating, gardening and Company Workshops.

Gardening and Company Workshops should be available to all players (gardening) and FCs (gardening and workshops) for the sub price that we all pay.

Aside from that, there are a lot of ideas floating around on how to improve the housing situation, thank you for adding more wards and paying attention to this topic. You already provide the ability to decorate to every player through apartments and FC rooms, so I personally would be interested in getting more information on these "Player owned farms" that were mentioned at fanfest as a way to ensure that players are all receiving access to the same features they are paying for first.

Not everyone who owns a plot cares about decorating, some just want access to these features, so you might alleviate the current crisis a bit, by fixing this first.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If you're so new, why are you looking for a house so earnestly?
There's a lot of other things to focus on first, imo.

Your idea also goes against the grain of their general programming. People are free to suggest things, and obviously SE could program anything, but there's also the realistic idea of how much work they are willing to put into a system that's already established. Big drastic changes likely aren't going to happen. We're more likely to get a new housing district with full ward count than a change to some lotto system.

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Housing is not even an option for anyone new to this so stop kidding yourself. After I saw the system and the sheer grind fest of clicking to get a plot I stopped caring immediately and realized that is just not a feature that exist in FF14. When people ask me if FF14 has housing I say no because I would be lying to say that it does. No reasonable person can look at this mess and think it is remotely working as intended.

It was a nice system designed FOR A MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH smaller player base. This is very poorly implemented for any MMO with more then 50,000 people playing. It is just silly how poorly thought out this is. The entire system is designed to keep RMT gil sellers in business.

The honest to god easiest way to get a house in FF14 is to goto an outside RMT side, pay real money then have them give you a house that they own. It is naive to believe this is not a system being HEAVILY exploited by RMT sellers.

I got my house

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Housing is not even an option for anyone new to this so stop kidding yourself. After I saw the system and the sheer grind fest of clicking to get a plot I stopped caring immediately and realized that is just not a feature that exist in FF14. When people ask me if FF14 has housing I say no because I would be lying to say that it does. No reasonable person can look at this mess and think it is remotely working as intended.

It was a nice system designed FOR A MUCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH smaller player base. This is very poorly implemented for any MMO with more then 50,000 people playing. It is just silly how poorly thought out this is. The entire system is designed to keep RMT gil sellers in business.

The honest to god easiest way to get a house in FF14 is to goto an outside RMT side, pay real money then have them give you a house that they own. It is naive to believe this is not a system being HEAVILY exploited by RMT sellers.

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Honestly this is the worst time to try and even get a home. WIth the Demo timer being off, finding a home will be down right a PITA. The plots you do see open up is from people deleting, transferring or having the character's perma banned. Same thing happened before in 2018. They turned the demo timer off, and it was turned on spring last year than a month and half later boom, all these plots. then those filled. then they added the wards. There are not going to add any additional wards to the current ones until the timer is turned back on. Thats they way they have been going about it from what I can tell.

Personally I think they should base price off server pop as they did initially.

For anyone who misses being able to spam placards due to the current demolition suspension, enjoy the following:

https://tkeleth.itch.io/finalhousingfantasy

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

As soon as luck is involved, it is not PVP anymore. I will never call "luck" a skill. There's nothing to discuss about it. There no exercise in the world to cultivate to be sure to win to the lottery. Then luck is not a skill.

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You're clutching at straws here, nobody ever called luck a skill. Hell, I barely even used the word "skill" in all my posts. The only mention of the word is during ward releases in which case yes, logging in is not enough, you need to have leveled jobs with movement actions and rehearsed getting to your plot (aka skill). Because other players will raise the bar. Other than that I only ever mentioned rewarding strategy and effort spent (time).

And FYI: There's rng in your damage, there's rng in PVP, there's rng in encounter design, there's rng in world design and pretty much any aspect of any mmo. Even competitive games like CS have RNG spreads due to recoil. RNG is an essential tool in many games. I guess nobody has any skill anymore.
Of course, this is ridiculous. Because there's some RNG involved doesn't mean it can't be -mitigated by / require- either strategy, effort, or skill.
That you would see red at the mere mention of luck and dismiss everything else is daft. Getting a house is a less rng heavy version of getting an ex trial mount. They're both tedious, the more effort and time you spend at it the more likely you are to get one, and it has some RNG aspect that can EQUALLY lengthen OR shorten your search. Statistically, it averages out to have even less effect overall. Of course, a mount is PVE so it's an unlimited resource that is capped and that you can eventually get, as for housing, PVP being PVP it clearly won't be infinite by definition (the entire "limited resource" thing), but on the other hand, strategy can seriously mitigate the woes of rng.
Now obviously, placard spamming is magnitudes less rewarding than running any content, but that doesn't change the fact that they follow the same commonalities.

Housing isn't crazy in terms of total time spent. There are many other optional pieces of content that take way longer to complete. The real issue is how that time is spent. The mechanics of it make sense but fall in the category of not being fun and "feeling too random" (emphasis on "feeling" as opposed to "being") when really it's just that someone clicked faster than you.. But alas, after 16h it's all the same. Again, if someone relocated then it's just that you aren't being smart about your house hunting.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

yes right now it's one layout for every account since the ward is shared, no need extra memory, but the one you suggest is 6x per account that multiple the memory requirement by a LOT i means LOTSSS

do correct me if i'm wrong, thank you.

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One way around it: Store the additional data on user systems.. The images for everything are in the client, so to display a particular plot, your client needs to know what items the owner has and the position of each one. When you select a user's plot to display, the server downloads the data to your system, which is used to display the plot contents when you get close enough.
If you don't have enough storage for 6 layouts, it could restrict it to a lower number.

Each item needs item number, X, Y, Z position, and rotation angle.
Say two bytes for each = 12 bytes times 400 items max = 4.8 KB per saved plot on each user's system. Any typical PC would have no problem with this, but I don't know what kind of storage consoles have.

Also, you really need to store only the exterior items and appearance. The interior could be loaded when you enter the house, just like it is now, and that data discarded after you leave.

If that's too much work, then at least keep the instanced plots concept, which would increase housing (with more server storage of course) and also increase the street population.

Personally, would rather just instanced housing and if I have neighbors at all, I’d rather them be NPCs. Preferably do it like Breath of Fire/animal crossing where I build up my “town” and decide who lives there.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Housing is not even an option for anyone new to this so stop kidding yourself.

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Stop kidding yourself that it's not.

Apartments are housing. There is absolutely nothing stopping a player from getting an apartment as long as they're Second Lieutenant in their GC and have 500k gil. There are plenty of apartments on every world, even the congested ones.

Is a house more desirable? Sure. But even when getting a house is difficult, every player still has access to housing.

Oh gods, I came to the general discussion forum to escape this chocobo dung. D':

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Stop kidding yourself that it's not.

Apartments are housing. There is absolutely nothing stopping a player from getting an apartment as long as they're Second Lieutenant in their GC and have 500k gil. There are plenty of apartments on every world, even the congested ones.

Is a house more desirable? Sure. But even when getting a house is difficult, every player still has access to housing.

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The problem is there is a massive gap in the quality of content that houses and apartments give. Apartments are just fc rooms with a chocobo stable.

If apartments could be upgraded to be bigger, have extra floors, a small outdoor space (balcony or penthouse) to do gardening and outdoor decoration, and if fcs could purchase them and use a workshop there then the overall community would be a lot happier with housing in general. If things were like that then players would have access to the same features regardless of whether they own an apartment or house.

Of course there would still be players who would prefer a house, and understandably so, but they could no longer complain that they're locked out of cross planting, fc workshop and have such a tiny space for furnishing compared to a house.

Not to mention that those sort of apartment upgrades would be a great gil sink, which the game is in dire need of. I would also like to see similar upgrades for houses. No reason why we can't, for example, get a second basement. Well aside from server limitations of course :D

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Originally Posted by Ihaf_Frethyme

The HORRENDOUS State of Housing

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Been a problem forever, and the Dev team has apologized a few times that the system didn't work as intended. Yet they can't actually fix it it seems. They did, however, add apartments for all, as a sort of imperfect fix. All of my characters have apartments, my main on Goblin has an awesome apartment. I recommend getting an apartment.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The problem is there is a massive gap in the quality of content that houses and apartments give. Apartments are just fc rooms with a chocobo stable.

If apartments could be upgraded to be bigger, have extra floors, a small outdoor space (balcony or penthouse) to do gardening and outdoor decoration, and if fcs could purchase them and use a workshop there then the overall community would be a lot happier with housing in general. If things were like that then players would have access to the same features regardless of whether they own an apartment or house.

Of course there would still be players who would prefer a house, and understandably so, but they could no longer complain that they're locked out of cross planting, fc workshop and have such a tiny space for furnishing compared to a house.

Not to mention that those sort of apartment upgrades would be a great gil sink, which the game is in dire need of. I would also like to see similar upgrades for houses. No reason why we can't, for example, get a second basement. Well aside from server limitations of course :D

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I know there's a big difference but it doesn't change that all players who meet the minimum purchase requirements have access to housing despite what the person I was quoting claims. They can get an apartment while they wait for a house to become available.

It's not that different from someone trying to get their first place in real life - you're going to settle for what you can get, even if it's cheap and small, until something better becomes available within your budget.

What's rather sad is too many players won't even give apartments a fair chance because of the way other players trash talk about them. There's quite a bit you can do with apartments if you just give them a try. I've got apartments and FC rooms on my various alts that have living room, kitchen/dining room, bedroom, bathroom and sometimes an extra room (a library in one, an arts and crafts loft in another) all in a single apartment without feeling massively cramped. My apartment for this character has been designed like a real life tiny house with a "window" opening onto an outdoor view made with the planter trees, Verdant Paritions and Carpets of Flowers. Other apartments and FC rooms I have themed for different purposes.

Yes, we need improvements to the housing system so any player or FC that wants a house can get one. But at least players could give apartments a real chance while they're waiting for SE to add more houses (hopefully through Isghgard Restoration during the last patch of the expansion).

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

It's not that different from someone trying to get their first place in real life - you're going to settle for what you can get, even if it's cheap and small, until something better becomes available within your budget.

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In real life you don't have a situation in which there are literally thousands of people with several times the amount of money needed to buy a house and no company wants to take advantage of this enormous untapped market waiting to throw money at someone.

In real life you don't have literally -one- choice of a type of apartment to live in even if you have several times the income needed for a small apartment. So if you happen to be in a city where a house isn't an option you can get a nice large apartment instead, and it would even have a balcony.

You would be wanting to live in some really remote area to struggle so much to find a place to live that a small apartment is your only choice even though you can afford something several times its cost. And in cases such as these people often just get their own house built. With FFXIV it's the housing estates or nothing. You can't buy land outside of those estates and build your own home.

And I would like to add that I think comparing game homes to real life homes is not very constructive. The circumstances people face when buying a home offline are completely different to online. As are the methods to earn money to be in the position to do so. Homeless millionaires forced to live in small apartments or nothing at all is not something that happens in the real world.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

But at least players could give apartments a real chance.

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For some people it's pretty pointless if they're interested in doing something that can only be done with a house.

I'm not saying no one should give apartments a chance, but I am saying a lot of people won't change their minds even if they do. No matter how cute an apartment is, it does not change the fact that your fc is homeless or that you cannot do crossplanting. And well if they already owned a fc room they know exactly what it's like to have an apartment.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

Been a problem forever, and the Dev team has apologized a few times that the system didn't work as intended. Yet they can't actually fix it it seems. They did, however, add apartments for all, as a sort of imperfect fix. All of my characters have apartments, my main on Goblin has an awesome apartment. I recommend getting an apartment.

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You can suggest apartments until the crows come home to roost, but no one's gonna listen because they want gArDeNiNg.

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Originally Posted by Ihaf_Frethyme

The same programmers who are slashing about 15% (time wise) off of the ARR MSQ list because they USED to think that it should take 9 minutes per quest? The same people who are just now implementing a teleport directly to the Waking Sands? They are not above changing things for the better. That's exactly what a raffle system will do.

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There is quite a difference in removing quests than making a whole new housing system.

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Originally Posted by GhostlyEggs

Imo they should also make instanced FC districts a thing. If players own a house in their FC district than they can't own a house an non instanced house.
At this point it already seems like a bit of raffle anyways. At least this way players could walk away and do other things.
Although I think players should only be able to enter one raffle at a time.

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The problem with that is going away the design SE wants with the wards, creating a housing community. I like how it is now.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Just start charging rent. 10-20% of the max buy-price of the house every month or you lose it. You can pre-pay 2 months in advance. Then also make it sellable for up to 110% of the buy price you initially paid for it. Maybe if we made it less enticing to keep them because there's 0 upkeep there'd be more people willing to admit "I don't actually use this" because it's costing them gil.

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That's a terrible suggestion.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

You can suggest apartments until the crows come home to roost, but no one's gonna listen because they want gArDeNiNg.

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A valid complaint on Apartments, you can't do proper gardening with just 3 (or how many it is now) pots. You can't crossbreed which is essential for gardening.

I'm glad I can't stand being in this game's houses and having my camera constantly pushed in to the nausea zone. It completely removes any desire for me. Now, if I could use a plot entirely for farming, with no house,then I'd be interested.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

Oh gods, I came to the general discussion forum to escape this chocobo dung. D':

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And yet here you are...

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

You can suggest apartments until the crows come home to roost, but no one's gonna listen because they want gArDeNiNg.

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That's not at all why I want a house nor why this idea NEEDS to be implemented. Instanced housing is not going to fix the issue either so don't even start that argument. This issue is that you need to spend multiple hours (or get lucky AF) to even stand a chance at getting a house. THAT is the issue that needs to be resolved. If they wanted to do instanced housing they'd have to wipe EVERYONE's house and redo all of the wards. Or just tweak how the houses are purchased; which one is easier?

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

There is quite a difference in removing quests than making a whole new housing system.

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A whole new housing system would be instanced housing, not adding a raffle draw option to placards with a few textboxes.

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Originally Posted by Ihaf_Frethyme

A whole new housing system would be instanced housing, not adding a raffle draw option to placards with a few textboxes.

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Yep. A raffle just adds more RNG into the mix, and more competition. In the end, the housing system would be in worse shape than it is already so a raffle would solve absolutely nothing.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yep. A raffle just adds more RNG into the mix, and more competition. In the end, the housing system would be in worse shape than it is already so a raffle would solve absolutely nothing.

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To be fair it does solve the issue of people endlessly clicking because they personally they feel the need to do so to get a house.

Granted I do not think people should camp out for plots, but a lottery system would allow them to not feel the need to endlessly click for a plot. So for the most part it would solve the issue some people have with our housing system. Though I do agree a lottery system is a meh idea at best and just trades one form of inadequate distribution method for another.

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Originally Posted by Ihaf_Frethyme

Instanced housing is not going to fix the issue either so don't even start that argument.

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Why do you feel instanced housing won't fix anything? It has worked very successfully in other games.

Instanced housing means no more hard limit on how many house plots there can be since they would no longer occupy a static spot on the world servers full time, instead only loading on instance servers when a player wants to enter the plot.

Instanced housing means no more demolition since everyone can have a house plot.

Instanced housing means no more competing against other players for your dream plot. Everyone could pick the plot layout they want from the options SE makes available.

Instanced housing means every character on an account could have a house plot. You can only be playing one character per account at a time so that's only one spot on the instance servers you could be using at a time.

If SE can manage to solve the problem of adding dynamic weather conditions to instances, every player could have access to intercross gardening. If they can't, they could create a new flower pot with multiple planting slots so players could at least grow things if not crossbreed.

What problems do you see with instanced housing that you feel it wouldn't fix anything?

Instanced housing would do more harm in my opinion than it would fix stuff. Sure the instanced housing would give everyone their plot but i learned in wildstar that this isn't really the greatest way. Ofc it's nice to build as you wish but at the end the housing system we have here in XIV is based on a specific feature, it's limitied and to show off what you have. And for that reason it needs to be "open" or as we have it now "semi-open" so others players are forced to see other players houses, somehow.

And i think the housing system is just fine as it is, it is exactly what it wants to be and the devs go even further and for all that don't want to hunt (as far as i heard a great deal in the asian community) for plots literally everyone can get a apartment and they already talked about us being able to upgrade (?) the apartments someday.

For the asian market this system is just right, it's hard and grindy and it's a achievement to get a house and you can show off at the end of the day. Maybe our western mentality isn't made for that and we want it all for free but tbh it is not the main feature of the game and it is exactly what it wants to be, exclusive and grindy.

So i don't know why people always cry so much about the housing system. If you don't like cucumbers then don't buy them. Play something else that suits your wishes more and don't try to force the cucumber seller to change cuz you like eggplants more.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

the housing system we have here in XIV is based on a specific feature, it's limitied and to show off what you have. And for that reason it needs to be "open" or as we have it now "semi-open" so others players are forced to see other players houses, somehow.

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For this exact reason I would gladly give up my 3 personal houses, my FC large and my wife’s house for instanced housing.

The entire notion of “I have this thing which is artificially scarce that you plebes will probably never get” mixed with “I need other people to see my artificial achievements“ is at best, toxic.

My house is for my own insanity/decorating itch- if anything I would love to NOT see the eyesores that are my neighbors.

Even lore-wise there is just no reason the warrior of light should be denied a house. We spent blood sweat and tears fighting wars and rebuilding entire nations. We have the coin to practically buy an entire town, yet no one will build us a house because “reasons”?

because Instanced housing is basically apartment with garden, some people say yes that's all they want, but if both Instanced housing and shared instanced exist people will again complain the lack of shared instaced plot, why? because they want the best for them.

a LOT of people say they don't want apartment because they want gardening but once they got a house plot they never touch gardening, it's just an excuse. apartment is good enough as it is but people just never stopping wanting more.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

because Instanced housing is basically apartment with garden, some people say yes that's all they want, but if both Instanced housing and shared instanced exist people will again complain the lack of shared instaced plot, why? because they want the best for them.

a LOT of people say they don't want apartment because they want gardening but once they got a house plot they never touch gardening, it's just an excuse. apartment is good enough as it is but people just never stopping wanting more.

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I actually just don’t like apartments, in real life either. I wanted a yard with a pool, on the oceanfront. And a deck. Couldn’t care less about gardening personally.