Devs, Stick to your guns or remove Viera all together.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I feel like I read somewhere they said they wouldn't really go into the how and why of their sudden appearance, but I can't find a source so now I'm not sure anymore?

Either way though, Viera life is pretty restrictive for both the men and the women so it's not hard to imagine why some would leave.

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oh they did?:(
the only thing i remember them saying we‘ll learn more about their lore, story and other details in the future (from the fanfest)

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I'd just like some little nod to their sudden appearance. Like how Au ra got the refugee crisis and the Viera/Hrothgar had rebellions erupt in and around their home regions.

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They're not "suddenly appearing" from a lore perspective though; they've always been around, it's just that we're going to their home regions for the first time.

If they're trying to excuse an influx of adventurers from those races, then it needs to be due to events that happened prior to the beginning of ARR, not now in the leadup to Endwalker, because players are now seeing those races the first moment they get off the carriage and walk into town.

The approach, particularly for Viera and Hrothgar, doesn't seem to be so much "these are new and unfamiliar races" as "these people have always been around and are already recognisable, if rare". Hrothgar in particular are linked with the already-known Bozja Incident – not a new race at all, but (theoretically) a well-established people you didn't realise you'd already heard of.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

oh they did?:(
the only thing i remember them saying we‘ll learn more about their lore, story and other details in the future (from the fanfest)

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I've been trying to find it but it's a nightmare trying to find a specific interview with how many they do for different websites in different languages, something about how the current events would seem like a good reason for them to show up but it wasn't intentionally planned that way and since they're still rare we wouldn't meet many, if any, as NPC's or in settlements?

If what you say is what they said at fan fest though I might be misremembering because that's completely contradictory, and since I can't find a source you should probably take it with a huge grain of salt.

T O X I C - L O R E - C A S U A L :p

Adding Viera and Hrothgar with Shadowbringers was actually a good move. Both races dont just appear right of nowhere, they are part of the population of the first shard.

The addition of the Au Ra in Heavensward was a bit unlucky in comparision. Dont get me wrong. I like that they add them that early into the game. But... during the dragonsong war, everyone who is just slightly (of falsely) involved with dragons will be jailed or killed. And then, its ok to enter the sacred halls of ishgard with your dragon-like WoL. I think, they may fit better during the Events of Stormblood.


Just because something doesnt fit in the lore, it doesnt mean it doesnt fit in the game. We got flying elefants, cars and a invincible WoL. Not even a scratch after all these fights.

On the other hand, SE shouldnt be forced to add everything just because of gender equality. Its a just a game and a fantasy world. What will come next? A male fairy for scholars?

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I've been trying to find it but it's a nightmare trying to find a specific interview with how many they do for different websites in different languages, something about how the current events would seem like a good reason for them to show up but it wasn't intentionally planned that way and since they're still rare we wouldn't meet many, if any, as NPC's or in settlements?

If what you say is what they said at fan fest though I might be misremembering because that's completely contradictory, and since I can't find a source you should probably take it with a huge grain of salt.

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that‘s all to true, i know that feeling searching for that one interview and not finding it xD but i also remember reading something about not really meeting any of them or that it will be a rare occasion( possibility was open if i remember right) well let‘s see whats coming, im excited either way!

if you want to hear the fanfest part, it‘s around 2:00:35
https://youtu.be/sXrP6tT9wbY

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

that‘s all to true, i know that feeling searching for that one interview and not finding it xD but i also remember reading something about not really meeting any of them or that it will be a rare occasion( possibility was open if i remember right) well let‘s see whats coming, im excited either way!

if you want to hear the fanfest part, it‘s around 2:00:35
https://youtu.be/sXrP6tT9wbY

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Yes, I see you know the pain as well. ;)

I suppose both things can be true in the end, they can provide more story, lore and background on male Viera in general and go the same route they went with female Viera and not really go into detail about why they're out of the woods and showing up in Limsa / Ul'dah / Gridania.

Especially considering a newly created male Viera would start in ARR so the events of Endwalker would be a ways off still.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

They're not "suddenly appearing" from a lore perspective though; they've always been around, it's just that we're going to their home regions for the first time.

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Well yeah, that's kinda my point. They can't have always been around (in Eorzea) and have never left their forest.

I don't mind if never leaving the forest and never being seen was how it was always was, but some acknowledgement that things are changing would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I don't mind if never leaving the forest and never being seen was how it was always was, but some acknowledgement that things are changing would be appreciated.

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My point is, if it's a change then it's a retroactive change that happens earlier in the story, not now on the brink of the finale.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Not really, the majority of duties say that you're going with allies.

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okay I guess the lore book doesn't count?
The vast majority of primals are solo kills, some explicitly said so.

Even then this is only party members so 3-7 people, if Eorzea had as many people with the echo as there are players it would never be in any danger.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

okay I guess the lore book doesn't count?
The vast majority of primals are solo kills, some explicitly said so.

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Of the 32 canon primal fights in game, so not counting songs and simulations, nor things that are not primals:

19 of them outright mention fellow adventurers. Link.

12 are relatively ambiguous, mostly variations of 'you must face off against such and such.'

1 explicitly says you fought alone. Tsukuyomi.

Roughly 60% of Primals are confirmed as being fought with a party. That is pretty much the opposite of the vast majority being solo kills.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Of the 32 canon primal fights in game, so not counting songs and simulations, nor things that are not primals:

19 of them outright mention fellow adventurers. Link.

12 are relatively ambiguous, mostly variations of 'you must face off against such and such.'

1 explicitly says you fought alone. Tsukuyomi.

Roughly 60% of Primals are confirmed as being fought with a party. That is pretty much the opposite of the vast majority being solo kills.

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So we gonna ignore the lorebook, then? Okay. Half of these don't even make sense since Ravana and Ifrit aren't situations you knowingly get yourself into. Susano is literally a parody of the phenomenon.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

So we gonna ignore the lorebook, then? Okay. Half of these don't even make sense since Ravana and Ifrit aren't situations you knowingly get yourself into. Susano is literally a parody of the phenomenon.

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Ravana HM, Ifrit HM and Ifrit EX are all situations you knowingly get yourself in to. You discuss your plans to confront Ravana for a while before going there, and the Immortal Flames request you for both those Ifrit encounters.

The cutscene before Ravana even has Ysayle tell you that you can sneak out and get backup.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Ravana HM, Ifrit HM and Ifrit EX are all situtations you knowingly get yourself in to.

The cutscene before Ravana has Ysayle tell you that you can sneak out and get backup.

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https://i.imgur.com/UzwAhv6.png

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

https://i.imgur.com/UzwAhv6.png

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https://i.imgur.com/IHNu7q9.png

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Originally Posted by Jandor

https://i.imgur.com/IHNu7q9.png

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Not worth arguing with lol. I guess some duty finder text takes precedence over the actual lorebook.

Fighting with a party vs alone has always been wibbly-wobbly logic. There is absolutely no good reason for these not-appearing-in-the-story characters to be suddenly there when you need them and suddenly not again.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Fighting with a party vs alone has always been wibbly-wobbly logic. There is absolutely no good reason for these not-appearing-in-the-story characters to be suddenly there when you need them and suddenly not again.

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If only we had the stone of azem before.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Not worth arguing with lol. I guess some duty finder text takes precedence over the actual lorebook.

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60% of primal fights make reference to your party, a clear majority, sourced in such a way that anyone who cares to can double check for themselves. If these references were inaccurate then the team could change them to match the lore book, but they don't.

The lorebooks were written from an in-universe perspective by writers who were not omniscient. Quite a few people don't like this aspect of them, means they're not 100% reliable as a source as the author can theoretically be wrong (it's a pretty fair complaint to be honest, they're not exactly cheap books,) but I believe they chose to do them that way because they cannot just go back and change the lorebook in the same way they can change the game, and they don't want to be constrained by things they've written in the past.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

60% of primal fights make reference to your party, a clear majority, sourced in such a way that anyone who cares to can double check for themselves. If these references were inaccurate then the team could change them all to match the lore book, but they don't.

The lorebooks were written from an in-universe perspective by writers who were not omniscient. Quite a few people don't like this aspect of them, means they're not a 100% reliable as a source (and it's a pretty fair complaint to be honest, they're not cheap,) but as far as I know it was a deliberate choice to write it them way because they cannot just go back and change the lorebook in the same way they can change the game, and they don't want to be constrained by things they've written in the past.

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The first volume of the official FINAL FANTASY XIV lore books, written and compiled by the FINAL FANTASY XIV development team! This deluxe, full-color, hardcover volume is the definitive guide to the world of the massively popular online game.
While you have some meta journal that kinda just tells you, hey queue up bucko.
How in the everliving hell do we have comrades for nabriales? or final steps of faith?
Also they literally are getting reprinted, so they could change it.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

The first volume of the official FINAL FANTASY XIV lore books, written and compiled by the FINAL FANTASY XIV development team! This deluxe, full-color, hardcover volume is the definitive guide to the world of the massively popular online game.
While you have some meta journal that kinda just tells you, hey queue up bucko.
How in the everliving hell do we have comrades for nabriales? or final steps of faith?

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When the game and the book clash, I go with the game.

The game could be changed if it was wrong, and the book is written with an out in the first few pages, where it describes itself as a collection of 'histories, legends, fables and folktales.'

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Also they literally are getting reprinted, so they could change it.

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They could literally change the game text tonight, as they could have done for the past several years. They haven't.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

When the game and the book clash, I go with the game.

The game could be changed if it was wrong, and the book is written with an out in the first few pages, where it describes itself as a collection of 'histories, legends, fables and folktales.'

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The reference to adventurers seems to exist in english localization only, from what I see.
Even then the lorebook does mention that we gather companions sometimes, increasingly so in volume 2 (SB), regardless the playerbase at large does not have any bearing on the population which was my original point. It's still a handful of echo pals, not an entire colony of catboys in Limsa.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

The reference to adventurers seems to exist in english localization only, from what I see.

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Well, these are the English language forums. I'd guess most of us are rather ill-equipped to discuss the Japanese version.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Even then the lorebook does mention that we gather companions sometimes, increasingly so in volume 2 (SB), regardless the playerbase at large does not have any bearing on the population which was my original point. It's still a handful of echo pals, not an entire colony of catboys in Limsa.

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I'm not asking for major rewrites, just hoping for some minor justifications for the sudden influx of male Viera. Maybe part of the forest burned down, or maybe they've been discussing it and come to the conclusion being semi-exiles in their own home is a poor deal, you know, whatever.
Player population doesn't have to exactly correspond to what makes some amount of in-world sense, but it's a nice bonus if it does. I've always enjoyed the little bits and pieces here and there that try to reconcile some of the gameplay with some of the world-building and lore.

We already have a reason: uptick in war = bunnies falling out of trees. Lorebook says Viera have always been here but only recently have they been leaving their forest in noticeable numbers due to their territories getting caught between Garlemald's war.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Last time I checked, this is not FF X.

Let me check...


Who could have seen that coming ? :p

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Long story short if a male viera sees you your dead, if you see them your dead. End of the day any outsider that has been lucky enough to see one is dead.

Didn't they say that they were adding a reason lore-wise as to why male Vieras are starting to be seen?

Also, I thought it was clear that the game's lore/story was one thing, and players being players was another. Not everyone is supposed to be the WoL or a WHM. You aren't supposed to take what other players do, are, or look like as an actual part of your canon.

But most importantly, why does this even matter so much? (?_?)

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Long story short if a male viera sees you your dead, if you see them your dead. End of the day any outsider that has been lucky enough to see one is dead.

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I think that worked better when we were free to speculate that they might look a bit more intimidating than a wet noodle.

The only thing scary about them at this point is the inevitably high number flooding player led 'venues'.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think that worked better when we were free to speculate that they might look a bit more intimidating than a wet noodle.

The only thing scary about them at this point is the inevitably high number flooding player led 'venues'.

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Honestly yeah. Their lore doesn’t really fit their appearance pretty much. The fact they’re shorter than the females is pretty laughable, but the fact they have no masculine face option is even more laughable.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think that worked better when we were free to speculate that they might look a bit more intimidating than a wet noodle.

The only thing scary about them at this point is the inevitably high number flooding player led 'venues'.

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The only intimidating race is Highlander. They couldn't even get the tiger dudes right. Kimahri looks badass in ff10, the ones we have here look like fluffy kittens. About as intimidating as Pandaren.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Honestly yeah. Their lore doesn’t really fit their appearance pretty much. The fact they’re shorter than the females is pretty laughable, but the fact they have no masculine face option is even more laughable.

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Their appearance is fine they live in solitude your not going to become a hulking piece of muscle living like they do. Its also not uncommon for the male of a species to be smaller then the female. They may not be big but the fact that they can you kill without you ever seeing them. Makes them more dangerous then some tall guy with a muscular body

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Their appearance is fine they live in solitude your not going to become a hulking piece of muscle living like they do. Its also not uncommon for the male of a species to be smaller then the female.

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Even Matsuno, the creator of viera said they would be the same height and that they shouldn’t compare them to irl things. They live in solitude yes but we’re also told they go through such intense training that some of the kids don’t even make it out alive.They run through the trees, they’re hunters. They should look much more intimidating than…extremely feminine dudes. At the least they should have masculine options. Even Miqote has that lmao.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Even Matsuno, the creator of viera said they would be the same height and that they shouldn’t compare them to irl things. They live in solitude yes but we’re also told they go through such intense training that some of the kids don’t even make it out alive.They run through the trees, they’re hunters. They should look much more intimidating than…extremely feminine dudes. At the least they should have masculine options. Even Miqote has that lmao.

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What? Training doesn't define your facial features, genes do. Neither does it affect your overall size.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Even Matsuno, the creator of viera said they would be the same height and that they shouldn’t compare them to irl things. They live in solitude yes but we’re also told they go through such intense training that some of the kids don’t even make it out alive.They run through the trees, they’re hunters. They should look much more intimidating than…extremely feminine dudes. At the least they should have masculine options. Even Miqote has that lmao.

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They'll probably be about the same height in-game, max height male Viera is taller than min height female Viera. Given most players seem to whack height to max on dudes and min on girls I'd expect the average female Viera will if anything be slightly shorter than the average male Viera.

They're also pretty well defined in the body, not absolutely ripped but anyone expecting muscles on muscles on muscles was always going to be disappointed. They look pretty fit all things considered.

Kinda feminine in the face I guess, but it's not like they defend the forest exclusively with headbutts.

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Originally Posted by TTiscancer

What? Training doesn't define your facial features, genes do. Neither does it affect your overall size.

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I wasn’t saying for facial features, moreso the body. Facial features wise i was saying though as they’re described as these fierce warriors who are so dangerous they’ve never been seen yet they literally look almost exactly like the females facial wise. Height wise, they’re supposed to be the same as when growing up, before they hit theirs growth spurt they’re supposed to be identical to the females.

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Originally Posted by TTiscancer

The only intimidating race is Highlander. They couldn't even get the tiger dudes right. Kimahri looks badass in ff10, the ones we have here look like fluffy kittens. About as intimidating as Pandaren.

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I wouldn't say only Highlanders. They got the look of male Au Ra right too. Perhaps not as exotic as some of the concept art had it, but they're convincing in their portrayal of being warriors of the Steppes, or in the case of the Raen, descended from such.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I wasn’t saying for facial features, moreso the body. Facial features wise i was saying though as they’re described as these fierce warriors who are so dangerous they’ve never been seen yet they literally look almost exactly like the females facial wise. Height wise, they’re supposed to be the same as when growing up, before they hit theirs growth spurt they’re supposed to be identical to the females.

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What on earth does facial features have to do with being a highly-skilled warrior? That's ridiculous. Go look at pictures of people from the 20s and 30s, even athletes. Before modern nutritional supplements and diets, people looked VERY different.

That being said, it's a fantasy game, stop trying to justify this or that with real-world logic. Let me remind you that we have Lalas killing monsters with axes.

It may be a fantasy game but if we're meant to take viera men seriously as a threat then it'd be much easier to do so if they weren't running around looking like they were about to step onto a catwalk and enter a fashion show.

Especially when they supposedly live such a reclusive and harsh lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It may be a fantasy game but if we're meant to take viera men seriously as a threat then it'd be much easier to do so if they weren't running around looking like they were about to step onto a catwalk and enter a fashion show.

Especially when they supposedly live such a reclusive and harsh lifestyle.

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Then don't take them seriously. Do you think anyone takes Lalas seriously? Or flying eyeballs? Or flying pigs? Like... bruh, stop.

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Originally Posted by TTiscancer

What on earth does facial features have to do with being a highly-skilled warrior? That's ridiculous. Go look at pictures of people from the 20s and 30s, even athletes. Before modern nutritional supplements and diets, people looked VERY different.

That being said, it's a fantasy game, stop trying to justify this or that with real-world logic. Let me remind you that we have Lalas killing monsters with axes.

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People are using real world logic for the heights though lmao. If we use fantasy logic, they’re supposed to be the same height as the females yet they aren’t. They look incredibly feminine and have very little muscles for a race that is supposed to be highly dangerous, fending off intruders and living off the forest and going through such intense training that they die from it. Idk why this is even a debate when the devs themselves said they looked to the playerbase for inspiration and the loud portion of the playerbase is more interested in feminine looking guys than anything.

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

People are using real world logic for the heights though lmao. If we use fantasy logic, they’re supposed to be the same height as the females yet they aren’t. They look incredibly feminine and have very little muscles for a race that is supposed to be highly dangerous, fending off intruders and living off the forest and going through such intense training that they die from it. Idk why this is even a debate when the devs themselves said they looked to the playerbase for inspiration and the loud portion of the playerbase is more interested in feminine looking guys than anything.

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You people have this weird notion about body sizes. Go look at pictures of UFC featherweight fighters and realize that every single one of them would murder a 300kg 2m tall dude with 1 hand.