DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

All I've ever said is that you don't really need a parser to see that a DPS is performing badly, and that terrible DPS is reflected in the enmity list.

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Reading the discussion from the side...that's exactly the point that people did (at least originally) counter.

You said that enmity can be used to see a DPS performing badly.
Others said it absolutely cannot be used to see a DPS performing badly, because the enmity of those that perform well is the same or lower if they use their enmity management skills better.

That's all. No one was saying anything about parser for a good while. They merely gave time and time again examples of how enmity doesn't mean a thing for anything other than tanking. Enmity shows only one bad thing in a DPS. Poor use of enmity management skills. That's all. It goes even further down the drain if there is any kind of spawn in the fight (or if it's a mid-dungeon pull) where the damage is variously spread between targets. At that point you could look at all the skill uses and buffs you want. There is 0 chance you could even roughly glance over it, unless you do nothing but switch targets to see all that enmity and try to deduce who did the hits and with what. In a boss with spawn, some may go for a spawn (one of few different, possibly), some may stick on the boss. Unless someone is going after a spawn solo, at which point you can visually compare the time it takes for him to kill it (if you saw and remember other DPS players doing the same feat), that completely messes up any estimation of how good or bad a player is based on enmity.

So yes. Your point was understood and it was countered repeatedly.


As for the original post...If you believe that you have poorly written the original post KaivaC...then simply edit it and elaborate on your stance so that everyone can see from the get-go what it is. Trying to explain yourself in latter posts without editing the original post cannot really do much.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I understand the direction you're trying to go here, humor me if you would be so kind. Sigma normal seems a happy middle ground. How do you pick out an underperforming dps?

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In Sigma NM, I probably wouldn't notice since there aren't really any areas that would highlight a problem. It's more noticeable with DPS checks and enrages. I'd just look to see if anyone's noticeably lagging behind on the list, what job they are, are they using enmity dumps, etc. Then keep an eye on how they actually perform during the fight. Missed GCDs, that kind of thing.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

whee.

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Examples? And enmity management skills are used in openers, and if a DPS is creeping up on a tank. They're not up enough during any fight to be able to keep the enmity of a terrible player and a high-performing player on par for very long. The difference becomes visible at some point.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/m...threads/362419

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

In Sigma NM, I probably wouldn't notice since there aren't really any areas that would highlight a problem. It's more noticeable with DPS checks and enrages. I'd just look to see if anyone's noticeably lagging behind on the list, what job they are, are they using enmity dumps, etc. Then keep an eye on how they actually perform during the fight. Missed GCDs, that kind of thing.

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I don't know, maybe I'm just really bad at this but I just don't see how it's possible to track someone's missed GCDs from sight alone. Spell or skill speed, movement for mechs... no, I can't believe that this is doable while also doing your job.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I don't know, maybe I'm just really bad at this but I just don't see how it's possible to track someone's missed GCDs from sight alone. Spell or skill speed, movement for mechs... no, I can't believe that this is doable while also doing your job.

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It's cause it is not possible to do it as a human being without error and therefore you would have to fill in gaps with "assumptions", and well...we all know what assumptions can lead to....the wrong conclusion.

That is why people cannot go by the enmity list alone, it has way too many variables to ever determine objectively who is "garbage" as they put it.

You can try to pay attention to everything every single member of the party is doing, but honestly to claim you have the skill to not only play your job somewhat properly and pay attention to what 7 other players are doing all at the same time...well...I am obviously extremely unwilling to believe that someone can do that and figure out which of the 7 are doing things wrong without missing crucial information that a parser simply takes right from the game log and knows every single action everyone takes.

Even just DPS jobs and leaving out tanks/healers...following what 3-5 other members are doing all at once...I mean there is a reason we humans rely on computers and programs to analyze large amounts of data for us. It is way less prone to error.

So, yeah, you are definitely correct in your assessment Moro.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I don't know, maybe I'm just really bad at this but I just don't see how it's possible to track someone's missed GCDs from sight alone. Spell or skill speed, movement for mechs... no, I can't believe that this is doable while also doing your job.

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Not moving, bad positioning and repositioning, pausing, not weaving OGCDs, not using gap closers, fumbling mechanics, general clumsiness affecting their uptime... it's not super hard to spot, really.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Not moving, bad positioning and repositioning, pausing, not weaving OGCDs, not using gap closers, fumbling mechanics, general clumsiness affecting their uptime... it's not super hard to spot, really.

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I am 100% sure you can't actually keep track of all these things for 7 people.

Not faulting you, virtually no one could.

Claiming to is either ignorant or dishonest.

Huh? didn't think I will see a topic based on a comment I didn't make too seriously but I will give more insight on what I meant. When I say garbage tier I mean if you have 360/370 gear you shouldn't be doing 4k DPS, you should be aiming for at least 5k I would put as the minimum especially if you raid.As others have said there are many situations which can lower your DPS like if you don't have a high ilvl or if you die or it's your first clear etc. I'm guilty of low DPS when I die or I'm getting my first clear so my comment wasn't directed at those people. What I will say though is from my experience playing FF14 since 2.0 launch and seeing people's DPS...I'm not surprised SE doesn't add a official parser.

I will say garbage wasn't the right word so I think I would go with below average instead? Like I mentioned in my comment there is a site which people upload their DPS from a range of top of the end raiders to casuals who still upload them and you can see what you should at least be aiming for when it comes to DPS. Honestly, if most people just learnt a opener their DPS would increase because after the opener it mainly comes down to just managing dots and using certain skills to a basic level because they will all line up. There are so many pieces of resources out there for openers that i'm surprised people don't know it for their class.

Here is one for SAM if you are a Samurai and below 1633 skillspeed: http://ffxivrotations.com/17ou

Here is another for over 1633 Skill Speed http://ffxivrotations.com/1d35

If you do this at the start and follow the basic principle for Samurai getting sens then use Hagakure on cooldown and Midare Setsugekka when you can't use Hagakure you will have decent dps.

I have also been seeing people mention not needing a parser to see DPS and but can use the enmity which is false. If by chance you are partied with a Samurai and they use merciful eyes their aggro will drop so you can't gauge it through that.

Overall, this is through the eyes of a raider so my view on certain things might be different from other people. With that said I still think people should strive to improve in something they play because I think you will start getting more enjoyment out of it. That's just me though so you don't need to listen to that advice if you don't want to.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I am 100% sure you can't actually keep track of all these things for 7 people.

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...I don't? I already said, I see if there's a DPS problem, if anyone's noticeably behind, if there's any reason behind it, and then look.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

...I don't? I already said, I see if there's a DPS problem, if anyone's noticeably behind, if there's any reason behind it, and then look.

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Then you've missed everything up to that point, rendering your assessmemt essentially useless because it isn't complete.

Also: noticeably behind what?

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Then you've missed everything up to that point, rendering your assessmemt essentially useless because it isn't complete.

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No, I haven't. I can still see if someone's used enmity tools, and I take that into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

No, I haven't. I can still see if someone's used enmity tools, and I take that into consideration.

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How? How do you track this? Short of seeing Diversion in an opener you simply can't be sitting there watching 7 people's buff bars for Diversion or Lucid, not to mention the more obscure enmity tools. You can't.

Stop lying.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

How? How do you track this? Short of seeing Diversion in an opener you simply can't be sitting there watching 7 people's buff bars for Diversion or Lucid, not to mention the more obscure enmity tools. You can't.

Stop lying.

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I'm not lying, and I don't know why that's so hard to grasp. I usually have one eye on the party list as a result of my job, and I can see pretty easily who is throwing up regular enmity dumps and who isn't and how it's affecting their overall standing. They rarely even come up outside of the opener.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

How? How do you track this? Short of seeing Diversion in an opener you simply can't be sitting there watching 7 people's buff bars for Diversion or Lucid, not to mention the more obscure enmity tools. You can't.

Stop lying.

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If you know how much a job can generate when it comes to enmity you can tell when they use an enmity dump or enmity reduction. If Monk, Samurai and Black Mage don't use enmity dumps/reduction they will be on the tanks ass majority of the fight or even steal aggro because of it, unless the tank starts spamming aggro combos. You will notice this especially if you raid because tanks are trying to manage enmity and doing DPS. A tank who only does aggro combos and hardly does DPS combos is a tank I wouldn't bring.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I'm not lying, and I don't know why that's so hard to grasp. I usually have one eye on the party list as a result of my job, and I can see pretty easily who is throwing up regular enmity dumps and who isn't and how it's affecting their overall standing. They rarely even come up outside of the opener.

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I main WHM as well, I can't track all that. Neither can you. You've dug yourself a hole and now you can't find a way out. I get it. Continuing to protest that you're doing an impossible thing is kind of asinine though.

I don't want to waste my daily post limit on this anymore. It's clear you've dug in your heels. I was silly to expect an honest, reasonable reply.

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Originally Posted by Remus

If you know how much a job can generate when it comes to enmity you can tell when they use an enmity dump or enmity reduction. If Monk, Samurai and Black Mage don't use enmity dumps/reduction they will be on the tanks ass majority of the fight or even steal aggro because of it, unless the tank starts spamming aggro combos. You will notice this especially if you raid because tanks are trying to manage enmity and doing DPS. A tank who only does aggro combos and hardly does DPS combos is a tank I wouldn't bring.

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If you think a healer can keep track of their tank's enmity combos you're just as misguided.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

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I don't know... I have healed content and most my attention is on the tank and I can see a Paladin using Rage of Halone purely from the animation and sound effect. Same way you can tell when there is a Samurai in the group because you can easily hear Midare Setsugekka. Based on what you have said to other people I don't even know why I bothered replying. If you have a parser it's even easier because you can tell from how much damage they would be doing. If they have low dps they haven't been using the dps combo enough or sitting in tank stance too much.

Believe what you want to believe don't really care anyway I just wanted to point out what you said is wrong if you don't want to believe what I said then whatever.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/14#boss=4511

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I've got to admit, I never realised this was a thing either. Any guesses as to why I don't show up on those rankings? I'm pretty sure I could curb stomp most of them =(

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I main WHM as well, I can't track all that.

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Well, you do you, I guess.

Have yet to pull 5K or higher on my Nin in Savage but i can openly admit i am not great as Ninja. Always been a caster for 4+ years.
I have been getting better then when i first began however.
Anyhow there could be a variety of reasons why some players have lower dps without anyone actually knowing the reason.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

All I've ever said is that you don't really need a parser to see that a DPS is performing badly, and that terrible DPS is reflected in the enmity list. I never said, anywhere, that it's on par with or as reliable as a parser, or that it should be used in place of one.

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You are absolutely wrong. I can burst for anywhere from 8,000+ to 12,000+ on BRD, depending on how lucky I get in my opener with procs. I can Tactician immediately afterwards to drop my enmity to either 4th (when other DPS are using their enmity tools/tanks are Provoke+Shirking) or 8th (no one is using enmity tools so, when I drop 50% of my enmity, I drop to 8th)...and STILL be top DPS for a considerable minute, sometimes longer.

BRDs also creep up to 2nd fairly often because they burst every 80 seconds, and only have enmity dumps over quellers...yet will be fourth in terms of overall damage. How can you possibly tell all of this without a parser? You absolutely cannot.

What are you going to say to WHMs in Neo or God Kefka? They are generally second on enmity because of the sheer power of their heals, yet dead last on DPS? By the way, Lucid doesn't help enough to lower them by much the next time Almagest or Heartless Archangel comes around.

This Again.... I personally hate The DPS-Meter stuff and the Bad behaviour resulting from it. I have seen it many times that people get bullied or straight insulted when they dont match the DPS the guy with the DPS-Meter expects them to Have. No, Reports dont help.

Im fine with everything as long as the Dungeon or Savage-Raid is Clearable. Done is done.

All the DPS Talk is just Virtual long-dong stretching to me.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Wow...you seriously don't know how?

Yeah..I'm just gonna sit back and watch you figure that one out.

Last thing I want to do is give you guys more ammo.

*Moves on*


EDIT: OK ill give you a hint. Tanks rely on this very heavily.....at least they should.

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Emnity has nothing to do with dps otherwhise WHM (most of them who overheal like sh..) and Tanks would deal the most dps. A good dps tries to avoid emnity because thats what you don't want under no circumstances.
You can see if a dps is shit if you observe him but only IF you know exactly how to play this class and if you have enough time to observer properly.

Araxes you are prejudging everyone who uses a dmg meter with your post. There are very few user of a dmg meter who will do what you claim they do. Only the morons do that and they will always find a way to behave poorly, harass and kick people.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Im fine with everything as long as the Dungeon or Savage-Raid is Clearable. Done is done.

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4k is, without a doubt, a liability to your savage team. Sure, a death may bring you there. In that case fine he can do better in a no-death run. But with that damage you are piggybacking plain and simple.

Anything that is not savage or current extreme? Fine

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

What are you going to say to WHMs in Neo or God Kefka? They are generally second on enmity because of the sheer power of their heals, yet dead last on DPS? By the way, Lucid doesn't help enough to lower them by much the next time Almagest or Heartless Archangel comes around.

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I know this has nothing to do with anything, but WHM enmity isn't exactly because their heals are just that crazy powerful. It's just that, for whatever reason, WHM is the only healer that has all of it's heal directly effected by enmity.
ASTs Earthly Star doesn't draw enmity from it's heal, only the damage while also having built in enmity reduction from sects. SCHs enmity is split between it's fairy.

Sorry, I felt the urge to mention that. As for the rest of your post, 100% agree with it all.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

You'd think SE would fix these so-called "poorly coded" fights after all these years. I guess not. So it must be working as intended.

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Not when they have literally said, "we don't want to go back and fix old content." Regardless, if it was an intentional design why has it never carried over? Furthermore, Leviathan actually doesn't punish you. Unsynced, I can straight up ignore all his mechanics and live/heal through both of his Tidal Waves. Warrior and Paladin are OP. :3

Either way, forcing DPS to stop DPSing is simply poor design. This essentially means I'll reach a point in the fight where I may as well AFK and make a coffee instead of, you know, playing the game. Why would that ever be good design?

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Originally Posted by Maero

Have yet to pull 5K or higher on my Nin in Savage but i can openly admit i am not great as Ninja. Always been a caster for 4+ years.
I have been getting better then when i first began however.
Anyhow there could be a variety of reasons why some players have lower dps without anyone actually knowing the reason.

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Well, I main a NIN too and while I start with around 5k damage, it died down pretty fast midway to a low 4k range... No exactly sure why but I guess as a utility user, our dps are slightly disadvantaged.

I believe so long as we pull a decent dmg and giving enough utility, high damage shouldn't be that much of main priority for NIN.

This entire thread is why I've mostly taken a break from Savage. O5 and O6 down but progressing beyond in PUGs proved to be anxiety-inducing. I'm not great, I'm okay-ish, sitting around (last I looked I think) 4700-5k in O6 (but only have like 2 clears of that). I have enough problems not beating myself up about not being a GREAT player, I don't need people to start targeting me and calling me "garbage" because my numbers aren't top of the pack. :-/

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Originally Posted by Asiragan

The funny thing is that you most certainly had no ill will when you created this thread, but on this game people are always prompt to take out the guns when talking about personal performance.

Too late to stop the fire now, just sit back and enjoy as people will get back at each other for seemingly pointless reasons x)

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Nothing to enjoy, to be honest. I started a fire here -_-

Regardless, this whole argument is because of what I posted. I kinda hoped folks would stop when I admitted what I said was dumb, but here we are, now on page 12. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To all in the thread, this was my fault for igniting this fire; I have a really bad tendency to not think things through. Before you start spamming me with messages (to be honest, I don't even know who knows my discord), I have already started the process of deleting my in-game character and all. Again, I apologize and did not mean to start a fire like this. Can everyone relax now?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I know this has nothing to do with anything, but WHM enmity isn't exactly because their heals are just that crazy powerful. It's just that, for whatever reason, WHM is the only healer that has all of it's heal directly effected by enmity.
ASTs Earthly Star doesn't draw enmity from it's heal, only the damage while also having built in enmity reduction from sects. SCHs enmity is split between it's fairy.

Sorry, I felt the urge to mention that. As for the rest of your post, 100% agree with it all.

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With regards to AST, maybe that is probably because the Earthly Star is counted like the SCH’s fairy is? If you’ve ever looked on FFLogs, they count Earthly Star as a “pet”, so its enmity being a non-issue could have something to do with that, maybe? That being said, ASTs did have enmity issues before the enmity queller was built into their sects. Just some idle thoughts on your response to me; nothing to start an argument over. :) My comment regarding WHM enmity was more so a response to the sheer ridiculousness of using the enmity bar as a measure of one’s personal damage, but you know that. X3

WHMs could use some form of natural enmity queller. I know I was talking with a friend about it, and they thought it would be a nice thing to put as an aside to Plenary Indulgence—reduce enmity upon usage, maybe the amount reduced can vary between 1 Confession stack and 3 stacks. Would certainly add another layer of flavor to the ability, and give WHMs something they could desperately use.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Before you start spamming me with messages (to be honest, I don't even know who knows my discord), I have already started the process of deleting my in-game character and all.

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Are you even for real right now? You get into an argument in Discord and now you’re deleting your character? I’m not trying to be rude, but you should honestly take a couple steps back right now and think before you act, Kaiva.

As for the debate at hand, you opened the doors to it. You need to deal with the way it evolves, especially since there was a very vague opening post before your edit (which I still don’t find all that efficient, if you recall our conversation a couple hours ago), and especially since it deals with the concept of DPS—something that is always a hot topic on these forums. I’m sorry, but people are under no obligation to stop discussions when you opened the floodgates for it. The conversation will naturally die down of its own accord anyways.

On the SSS dummy today I did avg 4300 as 361 BRD, 5200 as 352 RDM, 5300 as 352 BLM, and 4200 as 350 Nin. I also did 3850 as War and 3600 WHM. I am Melded and I was not using pots or food.

So I guess I will be in the garbage tier but it only gets worse. In actual raiding, I am sure I do less because I have a hard time keeping up my rotations while fighting Extreme bosses. I need to look at my hotbar to see my combos and cooldowns/procs and when mechanics get heavy I end up looking at the floor and monster cast bar instead.

I don't really get to watch the fight much while I am doing all this and I am jealous of people who can. However, I suspect there are a lot of people like me. We do research our rotations and openers and we do not cast ice all the time as BLM or skip playing songs as BRD. Some of us just struggle to watch an entire screen of actions and our proc/cooldown/combos at the same time. In my case, I also never learned how to play using wasd to move so I use my mouse and I don't know if that hurts me or not.

I think hotkeys are also hurting my scores. I use f1-f4, 1-6, q-t, a-g, and v (q and e are my strafes and w is forward) Anything past 4,r, and f is awkward for me and shift+ is difficult and uncomfortable but I find them necessary to use because of all the buttons we use.

We are trying our best! :)

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Originally Posted by Kakiko

This entire thread is why I've mostly taken a break from Savage. O5 and O6 down but progressing beyond in PUGs proved to be anxiety-inducing. I'm not great, I'm okay-ish, sitting around (last I looked I think) 4700-5k in O6 (but only have like 2 clears of that). I have enough problems not beating myself up about not being a GREAT player, I don't need people to start targeting me and calling me "garbage" because my numbers aren't top of the pack. :-/

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To be honest pugs are more savage than the raid itself, its more about mechanics then dps nowadays, people tend to get bent outta of shape on midcore content(savage/extreme) that has no real dps checks.

If Omega or Sigma was Midas levels of difficulty its to be expected, but the above average dps expectation is way overblown in this iteration of savage. In my opinion, you should just find a static that's suits your style of play

On the emnity subject, All taking aggro means is that you're outdpsing a tank. It's a good measure to know you're doing 4.9k dps.

If I'm in O5, 6 or early enough into 7 that idc and someone is ripping off me, I'll just let them die so maybe they'll learn their lesson. I mean seriously this is savage stuff, learn how to diversion :v

Granted MNK and SAM can get really high after awhile into the fight but with shirk it still shouldn't be an issue.

the number from a parser doesn't actually you anywhere near as much as some people think there are countless things that can affect it that aren't shown and only some of them are actually under the players control for example as monk there are some fights where you can't do all of you positional because of mechanics and if you use true north for the firts one i'll proobly still been on cd when the next one happens

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Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

the number from a parser doesn't actually you anywhere near as much as some people think there are countless things that can affect it that aren't shown and only some of them are actually under the players control for example as monk there are some fights where you can't do all of you positional because of mechanics and if you use true north for the firts one i'll proobly still been on cd when the next one happens

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More like DPS loss from occasionally missing a positional aren't as significant as you think. It's probably 5% at most unless you're intentionally missing ALL the positionals for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Are you even for real right now? You get into an argument in Discord and now you’re deleting your character? I’m not trying to be rude, but you should honestly take a couple steps back right now and think before you act, Kaiva.

As for the debate at hand, you opened the doors to it. You need to deal with the way it evolves, especially since there was a very vague opening post before your edit (which I still don’t find all that efficient, if you recall our conversation a couple hours ago), and especially since it deals with the concept of DPS—something that is always a hot topic on these forums. I’m sorry, but people are under no obligation to stop discussions when you opened the floodgates for it. The conversation will naturally die down of its own accord anyways.

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^This.

People will eventually get bored of this thread in no time. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people on this forum actually forget it in the next few days, so why deleting your character over this?

Sure, some will have their ego a little bruised by this, but it's not like anyone would get really hurt by this thread. And worst case scenario, the CM will close it. No need to be so serious about it.

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Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong

On the SSS dummy today I did avg 4300 as 361 BRD

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To give a bit of insight/advice on BRD—I’m not sure what your gear and your melds look like, but the amount of crit you have on BRD goes a long way towards your damage. More crit = more Repertoire, which BRD revolves fully around that mechanic. If you are low on crit, you will have lower proc chances (and this can even happen with high crit when RNG is just being a complete buttface). I can have the best opener in the world one pull (3 3-stack PPs, Barrage+Refulgent) and then the next have a trash-tier burst (1 3-stack PP that I partially forced with the EA trait and no Barrage+Refulgent)...and I am best in slot.

It could also be that your gear/melds are perfectly fine for your item level, and that RNG was just being a buttface and giving you a shoddy opener in your ~4,300 try.

Also keep in mind that a BRD’s damage is going to be 5% lower on a dummy because you do not have access to piercing. And a lot of their damage comes from snapshotting their DoTs with raid buffs via Iron Jaws. BRD is a tricky job, in my opinion, to fully gauge skill on a 3-minute striking dummy because there can be a lot of variance between each pull. If you only did 1 or 2 runs, I would recommend trying a few more to see if your number fluctuates with RNG being kind versus RNG not being kind. Keep in mind what I said about piercing as well—5% may not seem like a lot, but it can make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong

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DPS gradually goes up with gear and practise. Also I don't know how proficient you are at the class so I can't really make any assessment on it. The last line is the main thing that matters and that's what I want people to try and do. If perhaps there are problems like you mentioned then let people know you are having a hard time because if you don't tell anyone no one will know. Perhaps try focus on a single class you like and go from there and practise. You could also search Google for the Balance Discord which can give you advice on playing certain classes.

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Originally Posted by Minako_Nightsong

I think hotkeys are also hurting my scores. I use f1-f4, 1-6, q-t, a-g, and v (q and e are my strafes and w is forward) Anything past 4,r, and f is awkward for me and shift+ is difficult and uncomfortable but I find them necessary to use because of all the buttons we use

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About this, I usually recommend to keep your bind near your W, A, S and D bind so that you access them more easely.
Use A and D to strife, as the other option that just turn your character is usuless in battle, and put your bind in a way that the closer you getter to your directions keys, the more you have a use for the skill bind.

For instance, Q is a skill you use really often, "caustic bite" for instance, while ctrl+F is more like a CD like "troubadour".

The F1 to F12 keys are really far away, so I really wouldn't recommend them for binding battle skills.

I won't get to much into detail here, but I home this is somewhat useful to you ;)

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

To give a bit of insight/advice on BRD—snips

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I logged into the game after this post and was using bard on a couple of A rank hunt and I was told I was avg around 4800 so being in a party seems to also help. I am melded into crit and direct hit. (tier 6) Unrelated, I got my Tsukuyomi Bow last night and I am loving how it looks!

4k is what you should be aiming for on tanks, if you did 4k on a dps you better have died.