Should SE sell Gil (similar to WOW Tokens)

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

Just because WoW does something doesn't mean it's bad.

And this is completely different than Tales of Adventure. This is about people being able to buy game time with gil.

Hmmmm. Me saying that got me thinking. Maybe there should just be a gold sink where people can spend gil for game time. That way people who don't have a lot of money to spare can play but it also won't create any of the issues people are worried about.

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It's not that the features being requested are good or bad, it's that several features from a single game are being requested. That's basically the same as saying you want World of Final Fantasy or some such.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

It's not that the features being requested are good or bad, it's that several features from a single game are being requested. That's basically the same as saying you want World of Final Fantasy or some such.

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If they are good features then what is the harm?

OH hey look. This again.

My take (again):
I support token sales.
Money in SE's hands is more likely to benefit us than money in gil sellers hands.
I'd love to use ingame currency to fund my habit.
P2W argument is idiotic. Endgame is mostly skill based, gear helps but you cant buy the knowledge and skills necessary to clear stuff. You're not really competing anyway so what does someone having better stuff do to you?
Some people have time, some people have money. This gives options to both.

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

If they are good features then what is the harm?

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The fact that I signed up for FF14 and not a carbon copy of WoW.

Also for the record I find this thread's main topic is a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

The fact that I signed up for FF14 and not a carbon copy of WoW.

Also for the record I find this thread's main topic is a bad idea.

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Hey this is a neat feature =/= copy the entire game

Just because someone wants one feature from another game doesn't mean they want that entire game cloned into the new one.

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

Crafting and gathering don't generate gil unless the items made or found are sold to a vendor. The market board does not generate gil.

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Uh...what? The market board, where a great deal of players make most of their gil, doesn't generate gil?

I think you're getting gil sinks and money making mixed up.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Uh...what? The market board, where a great deal of players make most of their gil, doesn't generate gil?

I think you're getting gil sinks and money making mixed up.

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Generating gil is when the game creates more gil. The market board is a trade between players. It's actually a gil sink due to the tax. It does not create gil in any way. Gil is created through instance content, FATEs, Leves and logs.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Hey this is a neat feature =/= copy the entire game

Just because someone wants one feature from another game doesn't mean they want that entire game cloned into the new one.

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If this were the only thread in recent days made about adding a feature from WoW to FF14 I would not have said what I have. No, this is but one of many recently made. Feel free to search for the others to see what I mean.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

I know y'all on the forums have some weird hate for WoW for whatever reason, but its been around much longer than ffxiv and ffxi, and is wildly successful, pretending that ffxiv wouldn't benefit from taking ideas and concepts from WoW (or that it hasn't in the past lol) is frankly ridiculous.

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Learn your history. XI came out 2 years before WOW.

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Originally Posted by Arixtotle

If they are good features then what is the harm?

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A feature that is good for one game is not necessarily good for another. Think about the amount of good features that FFXI has that would be horrible in this game.

Oh, and for the record, this is not a good feature.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

If this were the only thread in recent days made about adding a feature from WoW to FF14 I would not have said what I have. No, this is but one of many recently made. Feel free to search for the others to see what I mean.

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I've read those threads. Sometimes they're different people. Sometimes they're the same people asking for other features. These will be around as long as other MMO's have features implemented in a way these people like and have been around long since before "recent days".
I stand by what I said, nobody is asking for FFXIV: WoW, or they'd be playing WoW.

All that being said you are certainly entitled to your vote nay or yay. Just don't get too caught up in the fact that someone referenced another MMO. THey like the feature, not the whole game.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I've read those threads. Sometimes they're different people. Sometimes they're the same people asking for other features. These will be around as long as other MMO's have features implemented in a way these people like and have been around long since before "recent days".
I stand by what I said, nobody is asking for FFXIV: WoW, or they'd be playing WoW.

All that being said you are certainly entitled to your vote nay or yay. Just don't get too caught up in the fact that someone referenced another MMO. THey like the feature, not the whole game.

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I'm not the only one asking for a halt on suggesting things from WoW lol heck someone even made a thread about it.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

I'm not the only one asking for a halt on suggesting things from WoW lol heck someone even made a thread about it.

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no you aren't. ... is that reason enough to keep doing it even though it isn't actually relevant to the OPs intentions?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

no you aren't. ... is that reason enough to keep doing it even though it isn't actually relevant to the OPs intentions?

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It just means even if I don't say it others will, and actually already have... Also it is to be expected in any other threads referencing WoW features made after this one. Hopefully, none happen in the near future...

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Originally Posted by Joe777

It just means even if I don't say it others will, and actually already have... Also it is to be expected in any other threads referencing WoW features made after this one. Hopefully, none happen in the near future...

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Interesting logic: "others are gonna do it, why can't it be me?"

Every well implemented feature in an MMO will have a best example. WoW does a lot of things well because it's been around for a long time and many have played/are playing it. I've also heard suggestions from LotRO, GW2, and Lineage. Weirdly enough though the only ones people regularly pipe up against are the WoW ones.


I'm not a mod, so I can't stop anyone but I can try to inform. If you're just against it because it happens to be from one particular MMO, one has to wonder why?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Interesting logic: "others are gonna do it, why can't it be me?"

Every well implemented feature in an MMO will have a best example. WoW does a lot of things well because it's been around for a long time and many have played/are playing it. I've also heard suggestions from LotRO, GW2, and Lineage. Weirdly enough though the only ones people regularly pipe up against are the WoW ones.


I'm not a mod, so I can't stop anyone but I can try to inform. If you're just against it because it happens to be from one particular MMO, one has to wonder why?

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It's not that I'm doing it because others are doing it, it's just that it means that many more people are rather disapproving of so many WoW-based feature suggestions.

I know many an mmo use like-minded features and the one game trying to be as different as possible is failing miserably because they can't even fix their own game and their balancing is a complete mess. As for how often suggestions come from other games, can't say I've seen any in sequence from the others, but I cannot deny possibly seeing them mentioned here and there.

Why am I against multiple suggestions coming from WoW? Well besides what I have heard of that game I just don't think games should intentionally incorporate too many features from a single game. In fact, I'm all for games trying not to copy from each other, but originality is hard to come by these days and some comparable features are inevitable. Still, I'd rather see ideas not directly copied from another game that can work for this game. For example, in the case of combating RMT (which is why this thread was made in the first place), simply add a little extra kick to reporting rmt, such as enough reports from different people temporarily suspending the account reported against. SE can then investigate the incident and if it's legit can permaban and if it isn't legit can take action on the false reporters. About 50 reports should suffice to help prevent abuse.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

Why am I against multiple suggestions coming from WoW? Well besides what I have heard of that game I just don't think games should intentionally incorporate too many features from a single game. In fact, I'm all for games trying not to copy from each other, but originality is hard to come by these days and some comparable features are inevitable. Still, I'd rather see ideas not directly copied from another game that can work for this game. For example, in the case of combating RMT (which is why this thread was made in the first place), simply add a little extra kick to reporting rmt, such as enough reports from different people temporarily suspending the account reported against. SE can then investigate the incident and if it's legit can permaban and if it isn't legit can take action on the false reporters. About 50 reports should suffice to help prevent abuse.

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You've never played WoW then? Surprising. What game is failing miserably?
There are common features that will always end up being needed in MMO's that involve certain features such as Gear or Currency or Cosmetics. Economy management isn't something you can just hipster it out and say well WE are doing this differently because .. different! It's VERY important you find something that works and looking to functioning models is great way to do so. Admittedly what constitutes functional is subjective. What some accept , others may find bitterly failing.

In the case of RMT, I am against putting ANY method of directly suspending people in players hands. It gets abused by large groups. Just takes one reddit post and poof Knightly Knighterson can't play today cause 50 people out in reddit land believing some crusader for "justice" and their hastily cobbled together collection of "proof". According to another thread, this has already happened in the case of Shirogane (savage), people got reported en masse in the hopes they'd lose their house or at least get suspended till the demolition timer expired. We have proven already we cannot be trusted with that power, though for full disclosure, I've yet to see someone post in the actual forums a personal account of this happening.

I'm of the opinion that the Gil for Cash trade will always be there, the sellers will always find a way around it. It's easy and effective to take a large chunk of it AWAY from the sellers though and put the money in the devs pockets instead where it might benefit us. If you don't like the WoW example then how about Wildstar? There are a few other games doing it as well, but I've never played them so I couldn't begin to tell you if it's working or not with any sort of authority.

People really need to get off the "It was in WoW and therefore it's bad!" shtick. At this point it just makes you look really foolish.

I would love a token system in this game, but I doubt we'll see it.

Really simple. No.
If someone cant afford the monthly sub, then you have other problems in your life than a Game

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Originally Posted by Eli85

People really need to get off the "It was in WoW and therefore it's bad!" shtick. At this point it just makes you look really foolish.

I would love a token system in this game, but I doubt we'll see it.

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Played WoW, EvE, EQ2, all with tokens. It does nothing to combat RMT or botting. In WoW, botting got worse after it's introduction.

Tokens really don't add anything to the game worthwhile for the player. They just turn players into a resource to be exploited.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You've never played WoW then? Surprising. What game is failing miserably?
There are common features that will always end up being needed in MMO's that involve certain features such as Gear or Currency or Cosmetics. Economy management isn't something you can just hipster it out and say well WE are doing this differently because .. different! It's VERY important you find something that works and looking to functioning models is great way to do so. Admittedly what constitutes functional is subjective. What some accept , others may find bitterly failing.

In the case of RMT, I am against putting ANY method of directly suspending people in players hands. It gets abused by large groups. Just takes one reddit post and poof Knightly Knighterson can't play today cause 50 people out in reddit land believing some crusader for "justice" and their hastily cobbled together collection of "proof". According to another thread, this has already happened in the case of Shirogane (savage), people got reported en masse in the hopes they'd lose their house or at least get suspended till the demolition timer expired. We have proven already we cannot be trusted with that power, though for full disclosure, I've yet to see someone post in the actual forums a personal account of this happening.

I'm of the opinion that the Gil for Cash trade will always be there, the sellers will always find a way around it. It's easy and effective to take a large chunk of it AWAY from the sellers though and put the money in the devs pockets instead where it might benefit us. If you don't like the WoW example then how about Wildstar? There are a few other games doing it as well, but I've never played them so I couldn't begin to tell you if it's working or not with any sort of authority.

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The game that is failing I was referring to is The Elder Scrolls Online. Sure it has fast-paced action, constantly adds new content, and is lore heavy enough to keep TES fans hooked, but it is full of lag, glitches, and bugs and is completely imbalanced. Them releasing new content so rapidly is also breaking whatever they do manage to fix again. I played it on PS4 since it released on consoles and finally just couldn't take it anymore. I then found FF14 and haven't looked back at ESO since.

As for large groups abusing the power of temp suspension through reporting that would only get them banned once SE found out about it, or anyone else trying it for that matter. Either way, we can all agree Report RMT is just not efficient enough. The same advertising bot remains for pretty much an entire day no matter how much we report them. Sure there is blacklisting but you can only blacklist so many before it's time to clean out the blacklist.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

People really need to get off the "It was in WoW and therefore it's bad!" shtick.

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No one is saying that? Most of the nos have not been for that reason and those commenting on the suggestion coming from WoW are not saying it is bad. Well, not for that reason at least.

The yellow and green on this thread is very strong. Complains about -both- overpriced stuff and no gil sink? this is like complaining about hunger..while glaring at obesity.
Marketboard doesn't generate gils, its purpose is to distribute it. Overall what rmt use is bots farming quests, duties and gathering, not even crafting can generate gils out of thin air.
Making SE sell gills will only make it worse, both for SE and -you- the addicted rmt buyers. If someone is swimming in gils, they have the community to thanks.
I have respect for some crafters (in Siren atleast) who hold community events and rewards with expensive minions or orchestrion rolls. Give the gils back, that's the best way.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

I am just wondering why SE has not done this yet, Bots and spammers are still common in the game and its really annoying to see some hacked account spamming for days. Would this not resolve the issue for FF, to promote in game time tokens for Gil? Potentially making them more revenue, while resolving this nuisance and allowing players to buy time with Gil? In my opinion its a win-win situation.

WoW Tokens: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-the-wow-token

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game inflation. There was an exploit with people selling the eternal bond wrists for gil, and SE put a stop to it. gil is pretty easy to make heck being a tank can make you rich fairly easily.

Also these systems are not what its crack up to be. Neverwinter nights has a similar feature and it is HARD to get into it as a newbie.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

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eso is far from failing I was playing it when I couldn't afford ff14 and there are tons of ppl who play it, and they have been fixing bugs, and I never had any lag issues in eso. Never heard about said issue either.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

eso is far from failing I was playing it when I couldn't afford ff14 and there are tons of ppl who play it, and they have been fixing bugs, and I never had any lag issues in eso. Never heard about said issue either.

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The reasons I mentioned are why people play it, but there is also rmt advertisers, bots farming spawns (bug abuse involved), and general toxicity as well. Even these forums are friendly compared to ESO's community. Any bugs they do fix as I mentioned before reappear in later patches.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

The reasons I mentioned are why people play it, but there is also rmt advertisers, bots farming spawns (bug abuse involved), and general toxicity as well. Even these forums are friendly compared to ESO's community. Any bugs they do fix as I mentioned before reappear in later patches.

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i found the forum community more pleasant the these forums from time to time, as well as the community in the game.

I have rarely encountered an rmt bot spamming stuff, i rarely saw any bots out in the field. When i did the open world dungeons, the random healer would heal me. When asking for a wolf or vamp bite people are quick to reply, and do it free.

I played ESO over this past summer, when was your last log in time?

No SE shouldn't

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

i found the forum community more pleasant the these forums from time to time, as well as the community in the game.

I have rarely encountered an rmt bot spamming stuff, i rarely saw any bots out in the field. When i did the open world dungeons, the random healer would heal me. When asking for a wolf or vamp bite people are quick to reply, and do it free.

I played ESO over this past summer, when was your last log in time?

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Doesn't mean they aren't there, and I logged in sometimes to help a friend who still plays it. Last login wasn't that long ago. Oh and there was also that nasty bit about PC players using a cheat engine. Don't know if that's still going on or not as I didn't play it on PC.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

Doesn't mean they aren't there, and I logged in sometimes to help a friend who still plays it. Last login wasn't that long ago. Oh and there was also that nasty bit about PC players using a cheat engine. Don't know if that's still going on or not as I didn't play it on PC.

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i play on ps4 as well, im just saying game isn't failing. You just don't like it, there is a big difference. :)

My last log in was in September, been just about on every map. My g/f played it more since she has more free time, she never saw any rmt either. She in fact was quitting ff14 for ESO because she felt the community was better.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

i play on ps4 as well, im just saying game isn't failing. You just don't like it, there is a big difference. :)

My last log in was in September, been just about on every map. My g/f played it more since she has more free time, she never saw any rmt either. She in fact was quitting ff14 for ESO because she felt the community was better.

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Admittedly some servers in this game have toxic communities. The one I play on isn't one of them so I feel for the ones that are. Nevertheless, as I mentioned before very few things hold ESO together to keep people playing but it definitely has some serious flaws. Those same flaws have been around for a long time and will no doubt continue to be around. People like me recognize this and see it as the game failing, not because the game is going to die but because Zenimax is too incompetent to truly fix the problems. Once you've played that game as long as me and others have you'll start to see it. I can't say the same about FF14 and I've actually been playing it longer than I did ESO. Not saying FF14 is flawless but its flaws aren't as serious. If I had no name the biggest flaw in FF14 it'd be the inability to use BiS with glamour on jobs that share gear. Honestly, they could fix that by making jobs stop sharing gear come to think of it... But I digress.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

since.

As for large groups abusing the power of temp suspension through reporting that would only get them banned once SE found out about it, or anyone else trying it for that matter. Either way, we can all agree Report RMT is just not efficient enough. The same advertising bot remains for pretty much an entire day no matter how much we report them. Sure there is blacklisting but you can only blacklist so many before it's time to clean out the blacklist.

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People WILL abuse it. Even with the threat of punishment people will abuse it. I would appreciate more expedient reporting results as well, but in my experience usually the spammers disappear in about 20 minutes .

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Originally Posted by Aramina

You opened a can of worms. :P I wouldn't have a problem with it, but you are gonna get a lot of "that is P2W" or the "game is doomed" the same way WoW did. Yet, it's been a couple of years and the game hasn't managed to spontaneously combust.

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Yep...been trying to let this die since another poster gave me the links to the other posts. Just been reading those. Sorry guys.

No. It would be a disaster for the economy.

How it can work without inflating the economy: turn it into a gil sink

- Player 1 buy a sub token for real money and sell it to the sub token NPC for 300k gil (fixed price)
- Player 2 buy the token, that player 1 sold to the NPC, for 1m gil (fixed price)
Player 1 is 300k gil richer, player 2 have his sub and 700k gil less is in the economy. And the supply of the NPC depend on the amount of tokens that got sold to him.

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Originally Posted by Roda

Aren't the cherry trees in the mog station tradeable?

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Authentic cherry tree: from Mog Shop, not tradeable
Cherry Tree: not from Mog Shop, tradeable, limited supply because from a past event (once placed in a garden it become binded)

People say "pay to win". What are you actually winning here? Glamour items? Housing? Gil doesn't mean a whole lot in this game.

You guys realize people are buying RMT gil in droves on every single western server with no signs of it stopping. People are already buying gil. I'd much rather people be buying it from the company themselves than botters who exploit the system.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

People say "pay to win". What are you actually winning here? Glamour items? Housing? Gil doesn't mean a whole lot in this game.

You guys realize people are buying RMT gil in droves on every single western server with no signs of it stopping. People are already buying gil. I'd much rather people be buying it from the company themselves than botters who exploit the system.

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And they eventually get caught and banned too.

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Originally Posted by Joe777

And they eventually get caught and banned too.

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The sellers get banned, but the buyers practically never get banned. I see people brag about how much gil they buy out in the open and they're still here to this day. Even after reports. SE can't afford to ban all the buyers because that's a huge chunk of the player base.

If they get banned it's only temporarily.

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Originally Posted by Felis

How it can work without inflating the economy.

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It technically cannot inflate the economy, because none of the gil involved is generated - it all comes from other players and thus already IS in the economy.

The difference lies in circulation. We have gil sponges in this game where the gil just accumulates without ever returning back into circulation, because these people "have nothing to buy", which prevents the effects of inflation to realize. By giving them something to spend that money on, you return those huge gil amounts back to the circulation, rather than letting them rot where they are. Any inflation effects these tokens can cause is not due to actual inflation, it's because rich people simply start using their wealth instead of keeping up the dragon hoard.

And it's best to simply let them keep that hoard. If you want to fight inflation, your best bet is to increase the market board tax, tp and repair cost, then ensure that rich people remain without anything to buy.

This is a stupid and idiotic question, and it only becomes even more stupid the more I see it.

No, of course SE shouldn't be selling Gold. Are you out of your damn mind? Whether directly or indirectly, being able to buy your way to power is called Pay 2 Win. And not a single subscription-based or even just a paid game should have P2W elements. This is yet another thing Blizzard did wrong in a desperate attempt to squeeze money out of their dying game, and it's disgusting that people would defend this, let alone suggest to bring it elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by KokonoeAiyoko

The sellers get banned, but the buyers practically never get banned. I see people brag about how much gil they buy out in the open and they're still here to this day. Even after reports. SE can't afford to ban all the buyers because that's a huge chunk of the player base.

If they get banned it's only temporarily.

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And you're 100% sure those braggarts are telling the truth? And you know that a "huge chunk of the player base" is buying gil how? How much rmt gil have you bought and kept without getting banned?

Also who else besides regular players do you think will be buying those tokens? Yep, the botters and rmt dealers. Those tokens will be free for them. They use bots, stolen credit cards and hacked accounts to get what they want and need.