~Poll~ Longer fights <Do you want it?>

I'm good with the battle length here. I've played quite a few online games where the kills are often even quicker...and some much slower. This one is a good ground for me. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wynn

I want my fights to feel like Final Fantasy fights. That means they should last longer than five seconds unless the enemy is significantly below your level. I would prefer xp, however, to not increase as we currently level far too fast and need a speed redux. I leveled PGL, LNC, and MRD from 14, 10, and 10 all to 30 with a 48 hour period a few days ago. That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me, but that is a subject for another thread.

---

Well, lucky for us they are speeding up the leveling process!~ Now everyone can get 50s EVEN FASTER!~

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

if people find moogle/ifrit difficult, longer fights and more of a grind probably aren't going to help them much.

besides, you only use thunder and thundara on ifrit anyway. how will having longer fights change anything?

---

Well, I would say to that, make spells more useful.......... They took out a ton of abilities (poison, bio, dia, and many more) We hardly have any spells right now, and not many more are going to be added when jobs come out.... soo don't blame the mobs, blame the class for lack of function.

Back in the days of a leve-centric FFXIV, I wrote this, and expressed hopes that the refurbished combat system would change it. More recently, I started this other thread.

We're about to see the end of the refurbishing and it's still my main issue with the game. Yoshida has several times expressed his ideas about this, and they seem grounded in a much lighter, breezier combat concept than the one the community seems to be clamoring for. Please make your voices heard.

Wow an old thread, even gifthorse is in it, I already had it liked as well ^.^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Athaya

Leave the long fights for NM and boss battles.

---

And let 90% of the game be boring and shallow, with neither danger nor menace?

R

I like the idea of slower fights. It would be great for when they introduce group combo's(skillchain equiv) giving people a chance to get their combo off and shine if they are doing good damage. Also, leveling is too fast.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Well, I would say to that, make spells more useful.......... They took out a ton of abilities (poison, bio, dia, and many more) We hardly have any spells right now, and not many more are going to be added when jobs come out.... soo don't blame the mobs, blame the class for lack of function.

---

indeed, but it's a fine line between giving players the correct tools leveling up to teach them how to properly play their class, and bogging things down unnecessarily with grindy treadmill content. i came from ffxi, so i see the value in giving players enough time to apply buffs and debuffs, and time to use skillchains and magic bursts (which honestly was a really fun mechanic)- but the problem is... even 75 levels of that didn't seem to be enough for bad players to stop being bad.

good players seemed to 'get it' by level 30-40 (if that), for the most part. everything thereafter was just itching for that new skill/spell/ability/equipment to test out before falling back into senseless grind until the next skill/spell/ability/equipment.

i think yoshi and team decided to get rid of dots and debuffs because nobody really used them. and i do think that was mistakenly attributed to the player base, rather than the game design. people didn't ever really use them because there was really no use for them. and that's a design problem.

i don't have a lot of hope for that stuff coming back anytime soon, but i do hope it makes it back in time for 2.0- because that kind of stuff tends to be clutch for endgame-type encounters. but i think the bottom line is that, for now, they're just trying to simplify things a bit, and then build on it from there. but i could be wrong.

as far as lengthening fights when leveling, though? i vote no. absolutely not. to my experience it just has very limited practicality in teaching players how to play their jobs. if anything, we need more instances/dungeons and non-leveling content *on the way* to level cap with stronger monsters, boss fights and other objectives which force us to play better as a team and better perform our designated roles to succeed.

i don't want every single little insignificant mob to be some kind of test or challenge. i'm not slow, i'm not stupid, i'm not bad. i don't need level after level of that kind of mindless repetition to know what i'm doing.

but if we could have some dungeons at, say... level 15, and every 5 levels or so after that- i feel that would work a lot better. the mobs in there can be stronger, the fights can be longer, and there can be boss (like in toto rak) encounters. that's the kind of environment i'd rather learn in.

leveling mobs should only be there for cursory testing of new abilities. if we want to really perfect our rotations and play styles, that's better saved for dungeon/instanced content. in my opinion, anyway.

Would love for there to be tough mobs that give high EXP but take a while to kill and are just generally harder. But they have to appeal to casual gamers because of marketing policies so my hopes are not up in the slightest.

(Heck, I'm all 50's and I'd probably still fight them.)

I defo would like longer fights. Cooldowns for like Gladiator are really ok for moogle or ifrit, but for crowd control (and especially cuzz the fight takes like 2 seconds) it's just useless. War Drum and Rampart are the only AoE voke that we have. And the cooldown is like 30 seconds for WD, 30 seconds for flash & 1:30 for rampart? With this short fights, these cooldowns are way too long. Gladiators don't learn how to use their skills in fight like ifrit or moogle because of this.
I would like to see some stronger mobs, but in smaller groups. So that you can pull 1 or maybe 2 mobs at a time. Perfect to train your combos.

So I defo vote YES! (liked it)

Would like longer fights, but I doubt we'll ever see them outside of bosses.

The problem is they want to game to still be semi solo friendly. Longer fights would mean raising mob HP and/or def, and probably make it harder to solo. But even so, i would prefer tougher/more drawn out fights. It's like the Risk Factor in that other thread.

I do like the way SWTOR did this (and maybe other games). They have the "strong" and "elite" type mobs, but they are the same lvl as other mobs just harder to kill. SE could just put some mobs in like that (in groups) for ppl that want to grind exp with more fun fights. Just increase the exp they award accordingly.

I don't understand something...in an RPG the greatest rewards is the journey you took when you get your character from level 1 to max level...the best part of doing all of that was everything you did in between...whether it be grinding in parties or solo, questing and following the main storyline...the endgame was another aspect of the main story...of course endgame became the it thing to do...but to be able to do endgame you had to progress through the game...but now we have people talking about getting to max level to do endgame...without even learning or experiencing anything that the game has to offer...this is an RPG...not and action game or a FPS or anything like that...the progress is meant to be slower more methodical...it involves interacting with everything and everyone...in involves writing hints down when you find something so that you can go back to it later...it involves getting together with other people to do different things...it involves everyone doing something different, everyone being different but working together to achieve a goal...
I do hold SE responsible for making the games as easy as they have, I can guarantee you that the majority of players calling for faster gameplay and easier leveling what not know what to do if this game had been done the way a true RPG should be done...but can't beat this horse any more than we already have...the game will change, and hopefully we can go back to what makes an RPG an RPG, and then we toss in the FF aspect and make it even more fun...


TL; DR:...I want longer battles...I want everyone to be able to actually contribute to the fight...not just 2 melee jobs/classes, I want mages to use more than 2 spells...

I think if we had a little longer fights, pick up groups for Ifrit wouldn't be filled with retards who don't know how to play their class, luckily I do Ifrit now with a ls, or all previous good people I've done shouts with, but sometimes you just pick up one retard with a 50, that absolutely cannot play their class and it is awful. I liked distinct camps also, it kept the population together, by giving people too many camps to level at it does lessen competition, but I want very distinct camps, that can support 3-4 parties, not stand in thanalan get pl'd or thm combo that. I mean I leveled up my thm pre the new updates, back when scourge was my main, thm is my main class always has been, now everyone is super scene leveling it to thm burn, kind of sad people aren't original and can only level up classes that are powerful not ones that appeal to them. But anyways, back in the day I couldn't even nuke crap, the mob was dead in 2 secs my dumb people who poke stuff. Now its the complete opposite, where mages nuke, and everyone is like "OK gonna hit this...dead". Where's the balance? I'm sorry for those of you who don't want to spend a long time leveling, but you best bring you're A game at endgame then, cause most of you I have played with play their class like 4 year olds. Its not "let me learn everything at endgame", its "let me learn strat for end game at endgame" okay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I think if we had a little longer fights, pick up groups for Ifrit wouldn't be filled with retards who don't know how to play their class

---

except fights took forever in ffxi, and leveling to 75 took forever in ffxi (i quit before they bumped the cap, so i can't comment on anything higher)... and yet the large majority of players still didn't really understand how to play their jobs.

and when you'd try to give some helpful advice on how to perform better, you'd generally get a "whatever man i have 75 DRK WAR NIN RDM DRG PUP i know what i'm doing"

apparently not, though?

bad players will be bad, no matter how much grind you throw at them.


anyway, i still think the answer isn't to prolong battles in normal leveling. seems better to me to have more dungeon content along the leveling path, and have the mobs inside those dungeons be harder, take a little longer to kill, etc.

but if that isn't really an option until 2.0, then i guess having longer battles in normal xp would be fine as long as the xp reward is boosted to match.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allistar

I want mages to use more than 2 spells...

---

and again- what good does it really do for mages to use more than 2 spells when leveling when they only use those 2 spells in endgame anyway?

you're trying to treat the symptoms, not the cause.

Battle is too spammy in this game right now. Server spams mob repops, we spam skills to take them down in a couple seconds even in exp groups.

I don't see the point in having longer-drawn out fights, especially if the mobs just do the same thing; longer, boring fights isn't fun even with more XP. Again this is what the nms/bosses/primal fights are for.

The game also allows you to scale fights to make then longer if you like it that way. Go ahead, solo-grind leve quests at +12 your level, see if thunder->thundara combos still 2-shot the mobs.

SOo why not have every fight interesting and fun like primals? Why even bother killing anyways. Lets just get rank 50 in one second!~
Also, so you are saying ifrit and moogle are boring? long drawn out fights?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allistar

I don't understand something...in an RPG the greatest rewards is the journey you took when you get your character from level 1 to max level...the best part of doing all of that was everything you did in between...whether it be grinding in parties or solo, questing and following the main storyline...the endgame was another aspect of the main story...of course endgame became the it thing to do...but to be able to do endgame you had to progress through the game...but now we have people talking about getting to max level to do endgame...without even learning or experiencing anything that the game has to offer...this is an RPG...not and action game or a FPS or anything like that...the progress is meant to be slower more methodical...it involves interacting with everything and everyone...in involves writing hints down when you find something so that you can go back to it later...it involves getting together with other people to do different things...it involves everyone doing something different, everyone being different but working together to achieve a goal...
I do hold SE responsible for making the games as easy as they have, I can guarantee you that the majority of players calling for faster gameplay and easier leveling what not know what to do if this game had been done the way a true RPG should be done...but can't beat this horse any more than we already have...the game will change, and hopefully we can go back to what makes an RPG an RPG, and then we toss in the FF aspect and make it even more fun...


TL; DR:...I want longer battles...I want everyone to be able to actually contribute to the fight...not just 2 melee jobs/classes, I want mages to use more than 2 spells...

---

Bravo, my good friend. Bravo.

I want my leveling mobs to be like killing Pandemonium Warden and my moogles to be short like killing marmots.

Honestly though I think the current primals are ok 8-15 min fights depending on the group. It would be nice for a HNM 1 day pops or 45 min max fights like Kirin.

Oh and I want Sch school girls~

YES YES YES YES YES

Longer fights = more time for actual strategy, if adjusted right I really think this would be nice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

you are the one who determines the length of the fight. if its too easy do something harder that takes longer. If its still easy dont bring a full party. if its still to easy solo it.

i was doing gc leves and the stars were too high. i was getting over 1k xp but not having enough time to finish cause the fights were taking too long.

---

Clearly does not understand

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

but if we could have some dungeons at, say... level 15, and every 5 levels or so after that- i feel that would work a lot better. the mobs in there can be stronger, the fights can be longer, and there can be boss (like in toto rak) encounters. that's the kind of environment i'd rather learn in.

---

exactly how long would you get to experience these dungeons? 1 hour. because that's about how long it takes to gain 5 levels with the current time per encounter mechanic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krausus

^^This

I have no desire to level slower

---

UGH.........longer fights, MUCH higher exp -problem solved <.<

*refrains from raging further*

Edit: Nvm, you retracted it later lol...thank god

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SniperRifle

I love these interesting threads that aren't about QQ/Appreciation/Quitting FFXIV, but are about asking the community what they want.

I'd love a good mix of short and long battles.

---

lol I think most ppl do too, Sniper....Unfortunately, threads start out nice, asking the community for feedback, and then "trolls" come in and ruin it. Let's hope that isn't going to be the case here. I'm only 3 pages into the thread, so only time will tell O.O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Razen_Arghast

What 1 hit. I never said 1 hitting stuff would be good, unless they are way way below your power. I'm just asking to stay away from boring designs like having to fight a normal every-place mob that is at your power level for like 1 minute or more. It makes soloing for experience become non-efficient, item farming by hunting mobs even less efficient, combat slow, probably introduces needlessly long downtimes between mobs, and generally gives off a sluggish feeling. Like I said, there are so many better and smarter ways of introducing longer and more immersive battles with tougher mobs, than making normal mobs a chore to fight.

---

Well, dude, you have to remember this is a "fantasy" game. You're not fighting cats, birds, dogs, iguanas, gorillas, and w/e other ridiculous shit you can think of...you're fighting "magical creatures." Do you really think that NPCs would be fearful of a bunch of squirrels and rats that a handful of "naive, poorly skilled, weapon-weilding douchebags" can kill? No...and that's what the current fights come off as; and i'm not the only one that feels that way.

We're supposed to be fighting monsters that terrify "non-adventurers." What's so terrifying about monsters that a child could run out in kill if he/she had enough practice swinging a piece of metal around, rigorously. It's stupid. Do you ever see movies where two fighters just run up to each other and flail aimlessly at one another?

No...they square off, exchange blows, defend, maneuver, exploit weaknesses, counter, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pnight

exactly how long would you get to experience these dungeons? 1 hour. because that's about how long it takes to gain 5 levels with the current time per encounter mechanic

---

tell me- what is the point of quoting and responding to something you didn't even read?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sidious

Battle is too spammy in this game right now. Server spams mob repops, we spam skills to take them down in a couple seconds even in exp groups.

---

Please, everyone, for the love of god like this post's quote....it's on page 10, a little more than halfway down.

can anyone tell me exactly what the problem is with short 'spammy' regular mob encounters? can anyone give me empirical evidence suggesting short spammy fights leads to a base of bad players?

the only way to make sure players suck a little less on 'boss' content like ifrit/moogle is for them to have *more practice* on 'boss'-type content, and learning what works best and what rotations to use and blah blah... because 'boss'-type content isn't the same as leveling content. if it is, either your leveling is way too hard or your bosses are way too easy.

(and actually, 'bosses' in this game ARE way too easy, but that's another topic)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

can anyone tell me exactly what the problem is with short 'spammy' regular mob encounters?

---

Anything is better than *battle music fade i-FADEOUT* *3 seconds field music* *battle music fade in* *battle music fade out*

And no, don't tell me to turn it off, why have music in the game in the first place then.

Quote:

---

can anyone give me empirical evidence suggesting short spammy fights leads to a base of bad players?

---

Short spammy fights don't let you get to know your character's skill as well as longer, more dangerous ones. If one skill per player in a 8-man party is enough to finish a mob, you will simply just use that one to conserve mp or just to simplify things as people always choose the way of least resistance.

currently the fights are mostly for brain dead wowers and its boring unless your in a party.
Strategy needs to come in and longer fights have been on my mind from day 1 of this game.
Obviously xp would need tweeking and links for pulls would need to be toned down or at least give more access to sleepga with longer effects.

Side note with that, the protect timer and other buffs have always been a little to short also, its almost like why give those spells to players before entering a boss fight, most of the time except for once they wont get recasted on the party, needs to be 30 minute timers on those at least........

Certainly, enemy mobs should last longer than they do now, especially those between 30 and 50.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khal_Drogo

Well, dude, you have to remember this is a "fantasy" game. You're not fighting cats, birds, dogs, iguanas, gorillas, and w/e other ridiculous shit you can think of...you're fighting "magical creatures." Do you really think that NPCs would be fearful of a bunch of squirrels and rats that a handful of "naive, poorly skilled, weapon-weilding douchebags" can kill? No...and that's what the current fights come off as; and i'm not the only one that feels that way.

We're supposed to be fighting monsters that terrify "non-adventurers." What's so terrifying about monsters that a child could run out in kill if he/she had enough practice swinging a piece of metal around, rigorously. It's stupid. Do you ever see movies where two fighters just run up to each other and flail aimlessly at one another?

No...they square off, exchange blows, defend, maneuver, exploit weaknesses, counter, etc.

---

This reminds me of my EQOA days when people would always zone the mobs to the local guard NPC because they couldn't handle said mobs. >:o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UnrealTai

currently the fights are mostly for brain dead wowers

---

and yet it's weird how those 'braindead wowers' tackle far more difficult content than anything we have in this game, right? and weird how what 'difficult' content we have is not only entirely too easy, but people complain it's not easy enough, right? right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soukyuu

Short spammy fights don't let you get to know your character's skill as well as longer, more dangerous ones. If one skill per player in a 8-man party is enough to finish a mob, you will simply just use that one to conserve mp or just to simplify things as people always choose the way of least resistance.

---

that's not empirical evidence. this is empirical evidence:

linky

so, wow is the game being crucified for having spammy fights, and the basis for a lot of this forum's bile towards how short the fights are in exp parties in this game. and yet nothing in this game even begins to rival Yogg Saron (WoW) in difficulty. not even remotely close.

and that's not even yogg saron on hard mode.

so i ask again- if spammy fights are the problem, why are WoW players able to tackle content so much more difficult than the stuff ffxiv players struggle with?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

and yet it's weird how those 'braindead wowers' tackle far more difficult content than anything we have in this game, right? and weird how what 'difficult' content we have is not only entirely too easy, but people complain it's not easy enough, right? right?


that's not empirical evidence. this is empirical evidence:

linky

so, wow is the game being crucified for having spammy fights, and the basis for a lot of this forum's bile towards how short the fights are in exp parties in this game. and yet nothing in this game even begins to rival Yogg Saron (WoW) in difficulty. not even remotely close.

and that's not even yogg saron on hard mode.

so i ask again- if spammy fights are the problem, why are WoW players able to tackle content so much more difficult than the stuff ffxiv players struggle with?

---

LOL how is it difficult when one can solo it in 13mins AN ADV. IFRIT FIGHT! 8people mind you!~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvflWSdzUE&feature=fvst

Also whats soo hard about spamming 123456 123456 123456 Just get outta here, Wow has nothing to offer in difficulty!

Wait yes it does, it's difficult to look at!~ Maybe thats why you think its hard, because you can only look at the screen for 2 seconds at a time! Shaazzaamel!~

There going to have to other wise your going to run into the old Not enough mobs to go around problem.

Wasn't nary a dodo to be had at launch, you had to fight people to get a shot at that dodo. it was general all round Anarchy Rape and Murdure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

LOL how is it difficult when one can solo it in 13mins AN ADV. IFRIT FIGHT! 8people mind you!~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usvflWSdzUE&feature=fvst

---

i'm trying really hard not to be rude- but i'll go ahead and ask anyway. are you really stupid, or just really ignorant and jumping to irrational conclusions about something you know absolutely nothing about?

it could be a bit of both, but i'm gonna go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume it's a case of the latter.

it's absolutely ridiculous that i have to explain this to you, but here goes.

note the dates of the videos posted. pay close attention to the link and video i provided versus yours. note the instance was added in the Wrath of the Lich King expansion, where the level cap was 80. note the video you posted is circa Cataclysm expansion, with a level cap of 85. note the enormous difference in health and damage in the videos. and the guy is in heroic firelands gear- a full 150 item levels higher than ulduar gear (226)...

so what you've basically done is take someone talking about time/level appropriate difficulty in content (say, Nidhogg from Zilart expansion in FFXI, level 75 content) and use a counter example that is absolutely not time/level appropriate (say, a level 95 character in Abyssea gear soloing level 75 Nidhogg). and that is your basis for a difficulty comparison?

for the love of christ, did you even READ the strat page? (obviously not)

so i ask again- are you irrational and ignorant, or just talking out of your ass? neither reflects particularly well on you, but i'm going to assume the latter again for your sake. because i'm such a nice guy.

so who exactly are you to judge difficulty and skill in videogames, anyway? i participated in server first kills of most HNM content in FFXI, and i'd say Bahamut V.2 and Vrtra were the biggest challenges. i participated in server first clears of SSC, TK, BT, and Hyjal, and just missed the mark on Sunwell. I cleared Ulduar hard modes in 10 and 25 man content, got my rusted and iron-bound proto drakes... and i did it *before* ICC, much less the increased level cap in Cata.

and none of my experiences in ffxiv even begin to rival any of my experiences in prior MMOs in terms of difficulty.

and tell me, what do you know of difficulty and skill, anyway? it took you over a MONTH to beat Moogle? and where's your speed achievement? show me your 80-85 DPS parses (from start to finish, not just phase 2).

see, here's the thing. when i talk about something being difficult, there's a pretty strong chance it's actually difficult. when i talk about something requiring skill, there's a pretty strong chance it actually requires skill. people took weeks and weeks to finally beat Yogg 25 regular, months to do the hard modes. the people who did that are clearly much better players than you. those people are also better than the majority of players who beat moogle within the first week. (again- more than a month before you)

i speak from a position of experience, you speak from a position of bias and ignorance. and yet you have the audacity to assume *you* are the expert witness here? keep dreaming, kid.

and p.s. thanks for underscoring *precisely* why i can't take 98% of this game's playerbase at all seriously.

fusional, go take a breather and chill. Your post shows precisely why I don't like posting on these forums. People here seem to be unable to discuss in a calm and neutral way.

Sorry, doesn't matter what you linked, now is now, and you were talking in the now... "yet nothing in this game even begins to rival Yogg Saron (WoW) in difficulty. not even remotely close." Sorry, but you just typed a long thing of nothing good job :D

ALSO good job on contradicting yourself! Shazzamel!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Soukyuu

fusional, go take a breather and chill. Your post shows precisely why I don't like posting on these forums. People here seem to be unable to discuss in a calm and neutral way.

---

"oh, you don't like it when people let petty, ignorant personal biases cloud better judgment and their ability to think critically and discuss constructively and objectively. people like you suck QQ wahhhh"

k

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Sorry, doesn't matter what you linked, now is now, and you were talking in the now... "yet nothing in this game even begins to rival Yogg Saron (WoW) in difficulty. not even remotely close." Sorry, but you just typed a long thing of nothing good job :D

ALSO good job on contradicting yourself! Shazzamel!

---

you haven't the faintest understanding of how logic works, do you? of how to make reasonable, well-constructed arguments? of how to engage in productive discourse?

i'd call you a troll, but i'm entirely convinced now you're just catastrophically dense. (and probably 14 years old)

but, yeah. good job making baseless arguments with inaccurate and incorrect examples, then having absolutely nothing to say for yourself and nothing to counter with when your feeble excuse for an argument is categorically deconstructed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fusional

"oh, you don't like it when people let petty, ignorant personal biases cloud better judgment and their ability to think critically and discuss constructively and objectively. people like you suck QQ wahhhh"

k

---

Please stop right now, you are just making your points even less valid ^.^