It was night and day and its always going to be on warrior because of how the class is designed. All your damage comes from your berserk windows and maintaining your buffs. Its funny actually because the problem with low damage wars in 3.x was that they were over thinking it trying to figure out when you use block for "More damage" when in reality it was killing them. They were dropping eye all the time. The guys parsing low were actually working twice as hard as people on the upper end cause all we were doing was spamming eye with blocks Just for aggro on swaps or pull. Just like 3.x all your damage comes from optimal zerk windows and your opener. For example if I miss a single zero in lakshmi ex specifically the one in add phase i lose almost 500 dps just from that. There will always be a gap because some will be better at their zerk windows than others. Oh and keeping upheaval on cd. That shits pretty important also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegernako
A detailed Reaction to Warrior in SB
Printable View
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07-11-2017, 08:47 AMDizzy_Derp
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07-11-2017, 08:53 AMTegernakoDoes not cleanse paralyze from V4 either.Quote:
Originally Posted by P4X0R10N
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07-11-2017, 09:09 AMP4X0R10NKnockback from the snake boss in deltas cape 1 bypasses inner release as well. =*(Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegernako
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07-11-2017, 09:11 AMUmbelielThis is something I actually didn't think of, and it's true, and it's hilarious and sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegernako
Thank you for bringing this to my attention lmao -
07-11-2017, 09:22 AMCasomme
If the only thing they changed with War is "No Beast gauge cost to switch Stance" and "Inner Release and Unchained no longer share a cooldown timer" I will start playing it again. Hell I will even live with shake it off.
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07-11-2017, 09:39 AMvigioX-Sun
Agreed with OP, the war class it become so bad to play, I main war since 1.0 an i had to drop the axe in 4.0 because of how bad the gameplay is, the class need some changes an im hoping they mention something on the live letter about this situation, there is a reason why they giving so much bonus to tanks on DR, lot of players just dont like the theme of sword an shield an giant sword, all my wars friends drop the class at lv 70 including myself to a DPS, i will love to pick up my axe again but the job is terrible to play i been kick from dungeons just for being a war, we back to 2.0 almost..
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07-11-2017, 10:31 AMYitharV2It's argued here that Berserk should give 100 gauge so our lives aren't dictated by the gauge.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcatte
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07-11-2017, 02:48 PMtestname
Guys you forgot, that it's not about stance dance!
How the job work overall with utility and healing mitigation -
07-11-2017, 02:53 PMDomiinick
I agree with most of it, but I do believe people are still focused too much on the PLD changes in comparison to there's. Yeah, they're doing too much damage right now, but I feel they should have the utility.. while the WAR has the breakneck damage and ability to keep their own. Hopefully the WARs will get better stuff in the 4.05 patch.
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07-12-2017, 01:42 AMShinkyoFor PLD, it's not just the utility that makes their DPS ridiculous. They literally have not weakness and no penalty from any situation/mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domiinick
Need to be off the boss to dodge an aoe? DRK/WAR can only do tomahawk/unmend to ranged attacks whereas PLD can still nuke with Holy.
AOE damage? WAR/DRK still need to blow some single target moves to maintain their buff/mp where as PLD can spam aoe all day.
They have every tools to deal with every situation at no penalty other than possible using a gcd to heal/stance swap.
My PLD is almost 70 but I know I will pretty much refuse to play it because it feels like playing on easy mode. -
07-12-2017, 04:14 AMP4X0R10NPeople are not too focused on paladin changes as a comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domiinick
If anything, people are too focused on comparing current war to 3.x war.
But since we're ok the topic of paladins, pretty unfair that wars lose half gauge on switching to dps stance when a paladins lose half of a guage used for defensive skills. Right?
How about SE make it fair and halve paladin mana on stance swap too? -
07-12-2017, 07:34 AMYitharV2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8...utu.be&t=4m55sQuote:
Originally Posted by P4X0R10N
^Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
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07-12-2017, 07:38 AMDizzy_DerpYep all of our dps skills are locked behind something that is cut in half when u swap which is not the case for the other two. Although I don't wish this clunky bullshit on any class pld is feeling great. They need to remove any penadding for the swap simply because we are so reliant on that gauge. Oh and because defiance cannot be used as a cooldown like shield/gritQuote:
Originally Posted by P4X0R10N
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07-12-2017, 07:44 AMRhynJesus christ that guy talking over Yuki when he was trying to explain that. So annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
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07-12-2017, 07:58 AMSpookyGhostThere's truth in this, but it's a bit misleading. If you, say, introduce an OP job that you had no idea was OP and everyone was like "buff us up to that so it's fair" then you're going to end up in a situation where all those jobs are super duper strong relative to the content. Now you need to go back and re-tune all the expansion content as well as all the new content in patches. It is much more simple to buff and nerf classes to a specific point you want them at relative to the content.Quote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
e: Also, as much as I like Core-A, I believe he's more focused on fighting game related stuff which is one character balanced against all the other characters since they're all doing the same thing (fighting the other dude til he's dead, albeit in different ways). In fighting games it's fine to do a bunch of buffs since everyone just needs to be equal to eachother since there's no boss to kill or whatever. However, even that can go too far and you end up with MvC3 which, although a fun game, has a meta around avoiding being touched even once or your character is dead and now you need to block a crazy mixup or just get unblockable'd. -
07-12-2017, 08:39 AMYitharV2I don't necessarily disagree that it's simpler. But in relation to FFXIV, I feel SB content is tuned fairly well to PLD, even though PLD is relatively strong compared to the other two. Even though it's simpler, I feel that nerfing shouldn't be done unless it's truly necessary due to how nerfs feel compared to buffs (and if it needs to be done, as Core-A stated, "there are creative ways to do this rather than making everyone depressed"). I also feel there are ways they could have made stance dancing more fluid for PLD/DRK, such as making them oGCD and gaining the enmity effect immediately but gaining the damage reduction a GCD later (but I suppose maybe that would be too complicated).Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
It's also true that this isn't a fighting game, but I think what he says about fighting games has relevance to games in general. He also posted another video on reducing the skill gap, which I also believe has relevance. -
07-13-2017, 12:12 AMDeadlockRahl
Great job Tegernako for breaking it all down. Great opening post and thread.
Warrior needs some drastic changes to make it fun and usable again.
I hope square enix have read your post.
Paladin is in a great place at the moment, dont change them. Bring the other tank classes up so we can sufficiently support our fellow tank and raid groups and have fun doing so. -
07-13-2017, 12:32 AMTegernako1. I just want more utility then being an IB spammer for "that awesome mitigation"Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlockRahl
2. To not be clunky and to be fun to play again.
3. For DRK to be buffed and for PLD to stay as it is. -
07-13-2017, 01:55 AMKingFrost
Yo. Monk main getting back into War for the 1st time since 2.x. Not hardcore or anything, but I try to do the best I can.
Gotta say, the removal of Bloodbath for Warrior was possibly the dumbest change to War. As is, the skill is essential for a DPS in solo play, because the sustain is amazing and actually feels really good since it always tops you off. Hell it's even good when you have a healer. As a Monk, if a tank falls I'm usually next in line. Between Riddle of Earth and Bloodbath, I feel like a real 2.0 War. I'd like 4.0 War to be the same.
That said, War needs a proper replacement. I think it's safe to say Bloodbath is about as iconic for it's identity as being really mad all the time and brutal (See all of it's move names. Hahah). As previously mentioned, the 2.0 concept was badass, but flawed in execution. A new Bloodbath (Let's say like the current one but on a shorter CD) would go a long way in retaining it's identity and feeling fun. Of course this also hinges on Attack Power being fixed, and our damage and rotations being better and not being a mess and tedious (Seriously, maximizing fell Cleaves feels like you need to be clairvoyant from what I've read on it). -
07-13-2017, 10:10 AMP4X0R10NHealing for solo play? You don\\'t need bloodbath for that. Bloodbath healing would be too easy. Not engaging at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingFrost
Since we lose bloodbath, and switching to tank stance to heal would eat all our beast gauge, we have to rely on faithless chocohealer. Sometimes it heals you, sometimes you just die. Makes fir fun and engaging gameplay! -
07-13-2017, 11:17 AMBootyHunter
I refuse to play my warrior after maining it since 2.0. Im sad
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07-14-2017, 10:43 AMTegernako
· Delete shake off · · · It is totally useless so replace it with bravus
Not just us!
JP players are also upset WAR and suggesting shake it off simply be deleted lol
got it from page 241 of the warrior thread:
https://translate.google.com/transla...ANK&edit-text=
"Shake off is not a nice skill to master with Lv 68, so change to be learned at level 50 or less as Knight's total eclipse,
I would like to reassign Lv68 skill to another thing again"
I also like this. Kind of a disgrace honestly that we got shake it off as a skill at all, much less a level 68 skill that's so bad in comparison to Bloodspiller/Req. (if any devs read this, I am sorry for being so harsh)
It should absolutely be either entirely revamped or be replaced by another new skill and given to us at a much lower level and kept the same. -
07-14-2017, 11:06 AMShurrikhanShake It Off is one of those skills that makes me wonder if the need to keep acquisition levels and total ability count, when so dry of creative and viable options by which to fill each, is actually a negative. The same can be said of Tackle Mastery, Devotion, Enhanced Enkindle (as opposed to the well-requested further reduction to the base CD), Secrets of the Lily II (or, being split into I and II), Enhanced Umbral Hearts not just being a part of the original effect, etc. Some of these make sense in that they keep DPS and functionality more equal over their given level spans, but others just look like they were purposely split to fill out the various levels, with little regard for anything actually being enjoyable or necessary in its addition at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tegernako
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07-14-2017, 11:44 AMUmbelielHonestly the entire concept of learning core parts of our rotation seems completely inane after a certain point. Always has, and it's always been one of my hugest issues with XIV on the whole and syncing- doing low level stuff is super boring because we have to go back to level x rotation and it's like... why. There's really no good reason why Heavy Swing, Skull Sunder, and Butcher's Block are three separate buttons that are learned at three different times and take up one of our pointlessly limited number of potential skills we can learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Shake it off is one of those things that where in the event whereit was just a skill we learned and it was useless it'd be no big deal, but since it's basically 1/5 of an entire new expansion's worth of new stuff... suddenly the fact that it's completely pointless is a huge issue. I'd like more skills available across the board and less pointless padding. -
07-14-2017, 11:59 AMYitharV2Yeah, that's why I'm in favor of consolidating combos in PvE as well, because it's illusion of choice. There's no reason why Butcher's Block combo shouldn't be one button, because you're always going to do the same combo no matter what. Honestly, I find SE's combo system to be too simple. See my comment here. With TERA Warrior, there was a lot of optimization and choice to be made, although there was still a priority system of which skills to use first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbeliel
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07-14-2017, 02:01 PMShurrikhanI need to get back into that game, just to seeing more of it at level cap... It'll amount to little more than research for me, as I tend to only maintain one game's worth of character(s') progress at a time, but definitely worthwhile in that capacity.Quote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
In the meantime, my playing around with Black Desert Online, especially its Tamer class, has redefined the limits of fluid ani-lock for me, well beyond what NieR:Automata had shown me. A shame that any attempt to introduce such fluidity or "what you see is what you get" as opposed to more proportionately "spreadsheet" gameplay will probably be met with vilification by those who adamantly and circuitously insist that a longer GCD, or GCDs in themselves, somehow mean more "tactical" gameplay.
______________________
Edit: (Ran out of daily posts)
The question that's long been on my mind is whether that initial fixed 200 ms delay was necessary and merely designed around, or part of the intended design itself. Moreover, a "global" shared cooldown itself is not necessary for hiding internal server lag. An "internal" cooldown (also known as "animation lock", when not muddled in term with consequent "movement lock") can do the same. The longer the animation, while still allowing for sequential ability queues, the more ping the game can hide. I would figure that the animation lock or internal cooldown need be no more than one's turn-around ping + whatever calculation time the servers need to create, essentially a "condition received / sequential action ready" check to avoid difference in output over ping. But, I am entirely a layman in this subject, and other MMOs with considerably shorter animations still suffer from output variance even over relatively small ping counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
Yet another mystery: When I did initial testing after the server change, back in Heavensward, I noticed no difference in output below around 75 ms, even as my ping decreased to ~25 with a VPN active, and could double-weave all but The Forbidden Chakra and Shoulder Tackle on my Monk with a 1.88 GCD. In Stormblood, though, even at a 2.05 GCD, lossless double-weaving has become rare.
Worse, many skills now queue later states prior to their change. Hitting Draw twice (the second hit still over a second before its cooldown refreshes) will now both Draw and consume the card. I have to be incredibly careful to not to spam Forbidden Chakra (which is usually a helpful habit otherwise, given the high packet loss if running without WTFast—I've been testing both with and without) or I'll end up casting Meditate after, despite having not touched the keyboard since the start of the previous GCD-gap.
To conclude: There's no way with the average ms experienced by NA (and likely EU, I'd imagine) players that XIV could currently support gameplay that necessitates low ping. There's a lot that seems questionable about XIV's netcode even if every player were capable of playing it at sub-30 ms. But there's a tremendous amount that can be done to make the game appear and feel more fluid despite that. -
07-14-2017, 03:07 PMYitharV2I definitely think it's worth getting to level cap just to see how endgame tanking is, although I'd say the major difference is at level cap you have your full kit. I really do think there's a lot FFXIV can learn from TERA about how to make tanking more engaging and fun. One thing is the developers embraced the meta by allowing tanks to do DPS close to actual damage dealers (which was mainly by increasing their crit power to match DPS crit power which is ~7.9x with crystals and potion; so a DPS doing 366k white damage would do ~2.9mil with a crit). You can see here the DPS warrior tanks could do, although Darkan in SCHM was special in that the mechanics forced the DPS to move around quite a bit and the fast paced natured of his attacks increased tank DPS (both Warrior tanks and Lancers get DPS benefits from blocking). I think this is a more realistic scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
Yeah, I personally don't like the GCD. From what someone told me on Reddit, it hides the internal server lag.
TERA still had animations but it sort of made tank gameplay a bit more fun because animations could be cancelled by blocking. And on DPS classes animation locks could be cancelled by dodging or via certain DPS skills. But I'd totally be for a lot more fluidity. The only thing is that I feel FFXIV's GCD helps disabled players. TERA is fairly strict when it comes to mitigating damage, as it's designed around really low ping. And disabled players may not be able to press buttons as fast, which would be a DPS loss. That's the main downside I see with TERA's combat system.Quote:
Not exactly, the gcd is so high so the inherent lag built in the game (around 200ms) is far less noticeable, if this game had a gcd like wow (0.5 or 1s), you would see that most of the skills just don't work in that time.
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07-14-2017, 03:26 PMAdachi_Ame
Also as a DRK I have no right to complain, but one thing I think would be a step in the right direction in helping WAR would be instead of Defiance also giving 20% more heal, just make it a BB effect where you receive heals for say 20% of the damage you deal.
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07-14-2017, 03:51 PMYitharV2That would require Defiance to be changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adachi_Ame
The way to think about Defiance is that a Warrior now has more HP to take more hits, but now that extra HP needs to be healed as well. Which is why Defiance has that healing effect as well. Basically, the two combined effects net the same effect as Shield Oath or Grit, unless you happen to have a Scholar healing the Warrior.
I can't say. It's entirely possible it's something that came with inheriting the 1.0 code. Hmm, I see what you're saying. Perhaps it's for a different reason then. One thing I surmise is that the GCD helps users who play on PS4. Someone using a keyboard and mouse can instantly hit skill after skill sequentially with low delay in between but on a controller it takes a little bit more time because you have to cycle through hotbars. So that may have factored into the decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
That's fairly interesting. I do know that a lot of people did complain about double weaving with the server move.
There's an interesting comment I found on reddit about FFXIV and the netcode. -
07-14-2017, 07:50 PMAdachi_AmeYes, but a Bloodbath like effect would fit WAR core nature more accurately, imo. And really a single change to a single skill, is actually not that hard of thing to do. I'm suggesting a simple change that would give more of the self sustaining portion of it back. Because more health just means more health to heal. I mean compare it to the other two tank stances, what do they do? They mitigate the damage. While health increase mitigates it to a weaker degree while a heal on a fraction of the damage you deal along with it would add more mitigation while keeping to the aggressive playstyle of WAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
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07-14-2017, 08:43 PMUmbeliel
I wonder what the threshold on making a new complaint thread is. They did say to make new threads and not complain in megathreads, after all.
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07-14-2017, 11:59 PMTegernakoI say complain away with as many threads as you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbeliel
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07-15-2017, 01:47 AMYitharV2I see what you're saying, but I still disagree for the simple reason that Bloodbath (25% lifesteal) was not that strong in Defiance that it negated the necessity of the healing increase. And >unchained in 2017. Bloodbath was fairly strong in Deliverance though. In terms of identity I would agree with adding it as a buff (rather than removing the healing increase).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adachi_Ame
I think you already got this, but I'll say it again. The way Shield Oath and Grit work is you take less damage so you take less hits. The way Defiance works is you have more HP so you can take more hits, but since you have more HP that HP has to be healed back. Without the healing bonus Defiance is not equivalent to Shield Oath and Grit, which is why Scholars don't like healing Warriors in Defiance.
In the past, healing bonus depended on wrath stacks. There's a reason they moved it onto the stance itself.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...g_with_20_war/
EDIT:
Just as a follow-up, I found this comment on Reddit as there some discussion in the Balance about the thread itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...yable/dk7r1wg/ -
07-15-2017, 03:38 AMShurrikhanIf only TERA's CPU downspikes and returns didn't consistently trigger my ASUS Anti-Surge protection the moment it loads the character selection screen, making the game utterly unplayable without risking frying my computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
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07-15-2017, 04:14 AMYitharV2The one thing I like about FFXIV is that it's designed to run on the PS3 (well not anymore) and the PS4. TERA's optimization is really bad. I feel like they changed the loading screen to be flashy but imo the loading screen is really resource heavy. My only suggestion would be to try making it Windowed and a lower resolution by following instructions here. If that doesn't help, then yeah, you probably can't play it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
I think it's also possible you might be able to change graphics settings at the server select screen? I don't remember to be honest. -
07-15-2017, 04:22 AMShurrikhanI can play Black Desert Online at 4k at max settings. I just can't play games that cause the same sudden reductions in power usage (and then subsequent dangerously quick returns to usage) as Tera. If I could run the game at all, I could run it at some 140 FPS. But the character screen bluescreens me due to its spikes—not the power requirements in themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
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07-15-2017, 04:28 AMSpookyGhostSpeaking of, TERA's coming to the PS4/XBone so that might be an option if your PC's CPU is having trouble with PC TERA.Quote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
http://gematsu.com/2017/03/tera-comi...-xbox-one-2017
http://tera.enmasse.com/consolebeta -
07-15-2017, 05:23 AMYitharV2Hmm, I wish there was some way around the new character selection screen but I doesn't seem like there is. :| My friend posted this on October 15, 2015, so seems like it happened a while back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shurrikhan
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07-15-2017, 12:42 PMAdachi_AmeAnother idea, would be to slightly decrease the healing potency while also adding the BB effect. Say 10-15% healing received, but also heals for 10-15% of the damage dealt. Can't make it Too powerful after all, and remember they buffed Darkside to 20%. So changing how the stance functions isn't too much of a stretchQuote:
Originally Posted by YitharV2
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07-15-2017, 01:23 PMYitharV2Perhaps. The main problem I see is that Defiance still has the damage penalty so I'm not sure if it would be enough to make up for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adachi_Ame