Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

No one is "fighting" with the SE developers.

We are merely reacting to the abilities and modifiers that we have absolutely zero control over.

I don't think you can get many of the tanks in the community to participate in something like this because there are many tanks hate the idea of having their DPS decreased. I think for some, the interesting part of tanking is getting maximum DPS output while surviving the fight. Anything done that decreases that amount will be a turn off for them. If SE is going this way, they likely will alienate a lot of tank players. Thought I suppose locking tanks into a specific play style will do that.

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Originally Posted by AlexSag

I don't think you can get many of the tanks in the community to participate in something like this because there are many tanks hate the idea of having their DPS decreased. I think for some, the interesting part of tanking is getting maximum DPS output while surviving the fight. Anything done that decreases that amount will be a turn off for them. If SE is going this way, they likely will alienate a lot of tank players. Thought I suppose locking tanks into a specific play style will do that.

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Yeah I'm getting that feeling too. After going through the "Why do you tank?" thread I noticed that a large amount of the answers are along the lines of "I like the short queue times" or "no one in my fc wants to tank, so I will". Which tells me a lot of tanks don't actually want to tank, they want to dps; but an overabundance of dps players, queue times, and necessity pull them over to the tank role.

Can we stop with the whole pure tank thing? Any good tank that knows what they're doing can focus on dps while still performing the same roles as a "pure tank." That's why some people are saying that playing a "pure tank" is bad, you're doing the exact same thing just with much less dps.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

Can we stop with the whole pure tank thing? Any good tank that knows what they're doing can focus on dps while still performing the same roles as a "pure tank." That's why some people are saying that playing a "pure tank" is bad, you're doing the exact same thing just with much less dps.

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You're completely correct, and that's part of the issue. "Pure tank" is so easy, that any competent tank can both "pure tank" and dps at the same time. If thats what SE wanted tanks in FFXIV to be (and it seemed like it was) then fine, thats cool. But recent events suggest they want to change that. It seems like they want us to use tank stance and "pure tank" while tanking.

I just want us to come up with ideas that would make both us and SE happy. I fear that if we don't they'll just take away our str, add tenacity, and thats it. We might be forced into the "pure tank" playstyle with no changes to make "pure tank" fun because we were too busy resisting a change that they've already made their mind up on. That's my fear.

There is no fighting really, they do what they want.

If they keep screwing up tanks, I'm out. Simple as that. For me, this expansion is terrible. My favorite class is Dark Knight, and this is what they took:

A lot of attack power
Shadowskin
Delirum
Reprisal
Low Blow
Dark Dance
Blood Price giving MP
Dark Passenger being worth using
Unleash being worth using
Scourge
Less healing on Soule Eater

And in return they gave us Bloodspiller, The Blackest Night, and Quietus and more MP return in Grit on Syphon Strike.

I can't think of any way they can without doing a massive rework of tanking. At this point, it seems they have two options: deny tanks access to the attributes they need to do high dps, or increase the difficulty of tanking to where we actually need to use vit and can't sit in dps stance the entire time. With the former, the more experienced players are screwed over; and with the latter, the less experienced players are screwed over. Either way, someone is getting screwed over. And if they do rework tanks, like someone else said, it'll take a large amount of work and time so it won't be happening anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

You're completely correct, and that's part of the issue. "Pure tank" is so easy, that any competent tank can both "pure tank" and dps at the same time. If thats what SE wanted tanks in FFXIV to be (and it seemed like it was) then fine, thats cool. But recent events suggest they want to change that. It seems like they want us to use tank stance and "pure tank" while tanking.

I just want us to come up with ideas that would make both us and SE happy. I fear that if we don't they'll just take away our str, add tenacity, and thats it. We might be forced into the "pure tank" playstyle with no changes to make "pure tank" fun because we were too busy resisting a change that they've already made their mind up on. That's my fear.

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I personally think active mitigation and constant damage WoW has would be fun.
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Active_Mitigation
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2565/shield-block
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190456/ignore-pain

The problem is I think that would clash with SE's desire for tanking to be easy for newcomers.

As HoodRat stated, it would need a massive rework of tanking.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

I pretty much agree with all of you. The big issue is that pure tanking is not very engaging and the only engaging part about tanking is when we are optimizing dps.

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The only solution to have SE and the player base happy i think its just remove the tank stance damage penalty, allowing us to keep the DPS and being tanky at the same time.

But idk why its not a popular idea over here.

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Originally Posted by shao32

The only solution to have SE and the player base happy i think its just remove the tank stance damage penalty, allowing us to keep the DPS and being tanky at the same time.

But idk why its not a popular idea over here.

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How would that work with WAR though? Unless they're adding the same effects of defiance to deliverance

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Originally Posted by shao32

The only solution to have SE and the player base happy i think its just remove the tank stance damage penalty, allowing us to keep the DPS and being tanky at the same time.

But idk why its not a popular idea over here.

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It wouldn't change anything other than giving the less experienced tanks higher dps. Both extreme primals and all of Omega can be tanked with full uptime of dps stance easily, and with SE's current track record I doubt savage will be much different.

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Originally Posted by Remiilia-vermilion

How would that work with WAR though? Unless they're adding the same effects of defiance to deliverance

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War is the only reason why i see they dont do this, look complicated but simple a the same time, the thing deliverance and defiance are the 2 sides of the same Coín, i Will say move the 5% from deliverance to storm eye and remove the crit, ajust defiance set to dealt much more damage with keeping the effect of that new punch skill and remover the beast penalty, there you have a War with 2 diferent rotations depending of being MT or OT, but its a lot of work

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

It wouldn't change anything other than giving the less experienced tanks higher dps. Both extreme primals and all of Omega can be tanked with full uptime of dps stance easily, and with SE's current track record I doubt savage will be much different.

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SE get what they want, you guys get what you want, i belive is a win-win.
Being able to tank in dps stance or not dont really matter for this

Pf: sorry double post, phone ^^

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Originally Posted by shao32

SE get what they want

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Does SE get what they want though? Honestly, I can't figure out what they want.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Does SE get what they want though? Honestly, I can't figure out what they want.

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Idk but at least this Will stop having tanks being rude eachother for just stay or not in tank stance without making angry the most pasionate agresive tanking followers

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

They should separate dmg scaling and hp scaling to different stats, just like how healers have their healing power scaled off int and mp scaled off pie.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Which is kind of weird. Imagine if healers' healing output and damage are scaled off int, and their main stat is pie, I'd bet a lot of them will wear int accs after having enough pie to heal certain contents.

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Actually Healer's healing power and damage both scale off of Mind now not not Int. Just figured I should correct you and point that out seeing as you keep saying Int.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Does SE get what they want though? Honestly, I can't figure out what they want.

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They don't. SE wants tanks to not be capable of the amounts of damage they're capable of now. And the reason they're capable of it now is because the content is designed for casuals. Removing damage penalty from tank stance doesn't fix this, locking tanks into vit gear doesn't fix this.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

I personally think active mitigation and constant damage WoW has would be fun.

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As a gameplay element of a single tank class, sure. As the basis for all tank gameplay, no thanks. I hung up my sword and shield when Blizzard forced-fed that turd sandwich to prot warriors during Mists ("oh it worked so well for Death Knights that we're making everyone play like them"), and I don't want to have to give up tanking for the same reason here.

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Originally Posted by shao32

The only solution to have SE and the player base happy i think its just remove the tank stance damage penalty, allowing us to keep the DPS and being tanky at the same time.

But idk why its not a popular idea over here.

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At that point you'd have to entirely remove stances. At most, WAR would probably keep theirs since they can then truly be a class that is mechanically dependent on stances (as opposed to now, where the only reason stance dancing is a thing is because "muh deeps").

I'm not opposed to the idea, but it really is terra incognita.

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Originally Posted by shao32

The only solution to have SE and the player base happy i think its just remove the tank stance damage penalty, allowing us to keep the DPS and being tanky at the same time.

But idk why its not a popular idea over here.

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That change would irritate me to no end. Being able to tank and do damage at the same time is what separates the skilled players from the rest. and the skilled players are working their asses off for it to show. If it was that easy to do top tier damage then tanking really would be boring as hell.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

As a gameplay element of a single tank class, sure. As the basis for all tank gameplay, no thanks. I hung up my sword and shield when Blizzard forced-fed that turd sandwich to prot warriors during Mists ("oh it worked so well for Death Knights that we're making everyone play like them"), and I don't want to have to give up tanking for the same reason here.

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Well, I doubt SE would be implementing active mitigation anyways because it's too hard for newer players.

That being said, in terms of balance, I don't think it would be possible to balance active and passive mitigation because active mitigation is generally much stronger. Like I imagine hypothetically if they were to implement just one tank job with the ability to actively mitigate damage, almost no one would play anything other tank.

You remind of what someone once said on Reddit.

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I really disliked tanking in legion. Active mitigation isn't engaging, it's just spamming short cooldown buttons like every 6 - 12 seconds on top of all the regular ???? you do. Granted, I didn't play all the tanks just some.

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I never played WoW. Just TERA. But personally for me active mitigation in TERA was fun because you got a "Defense Successful!" and 0 damage taken every time you blocked something (and depending on the boss, it could be every 3 seconds or something), plus now you get buffs for blocking. And blocking is also a component of animation cancelling which makes gameplay even faster. But to each their own. I understand not everyone will find that fun. But I do know a lot of players find tanking in FFXIV to be boring outside optimizing their DPS.

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Originally Posted by Vallamaria

Actually Healer's healing power and damage both scale off of Mind now not not Int. Just figured I should correct you and point that out seeing as you keep saying Int.

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I said 'if", it was a hypothetical example to compare the current tank situation with.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Attack Power(not necessarilly strength but currently is str) influences everythig a tank does

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Everything except one tiny little thing...how they survive. As for healing potency, before level 58, PLD has 0 self healing at all and the only capacity WAR has to heal is 100% tied to its max HP, and thus, vitality.
PLD's Stoneskin back then was affected by max HP, as is Divine Veil, and now, TBN, the most spammable DRK mitigation move, is, again, tied to max HP.

As for enmity, raw attack power is less and less important the more they buff the enmity bonus.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

You remind of what someone once said on Reddit.

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The thing is that active mitigation was thrown in for Death Knights in cataclysm to help mitigate their lack of other tank mechanics. It was the only two-handed tank, and as such had a bunch of mechanics to help it to its job (a +max HP +healing received cooldown, a stacked defense buff that fell off when you took hits, built-in parry scaling with STR, self-healing from both a skill and consuming their own minion, and active mitigation to make up for their lack of a shield or super armor boosts). I had no problem with that being the Death Knight style of tanking, since at the time you had bear druids with their huge boosts to armor and HP from going into Bear Form, prot warriors with their straightforward passive defenses & mitigation cooldowns, and prot paladins with their AoE advantage and captain america shield.

That person does make a good point, since active mitigation is pressing short cooldown buttons to create a sort of rotation while tanking. I lean towards old school when it comes to tanking, which is why I prefer cooldowns that are reserved for "oh shit" moments or for planned parts of a fight where I need to mitigate or I die (like a boss getting a damage increase for 30 seconds every minute during a fight, forcing me to use a cooldown to survive the attacks during that phase). That said, I wouldn't be opposed to a job with active mitigation as a central mechanic, so long as it stays exclusive to that class.

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I never played WoW. Just TERA. But personally for me active mitigation in TERA was fun because you got a "Defense Successful!" and 0 damage taken every time you blocked something (and depending on the boss, it could be every 3 seconds or something), plus now you get buffs for blocking. And blocking is also a component of animation cancelling which makes gameplay even faster. But to each their own. I understand not everyone will find that fun.

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In fairness, TERA's mechanics are very different from your standard tab-target MMO. At least my short time playing it taught me that you simply did not want to get hit by avoidable attacks, so that requires a completely different mindset.

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But I do know a lot of players find tanking in FFXIV to be boring outside optimizing their DPS.

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I'll be the odd man out, because having the mob's attention (/yandere eyes "he has to look at me and only me!") and letting the DPS do their thing has always been enough for me.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

That change would irritate me to no end. Being able to tank and do damage at the same time is what separates the skilled players from the rest. and the skilled players are working their asses off for it to show. If it was that easy to do top tier damage then tanking really would be boring as hell.

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No and no, being able to do that only means you have a good healer that's all, turtle tanks still use cd when needed same as aggressives, depends esclusively on healer's ability to keep a blue icon derps alive.

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Originally Posted by aqskerorokero

No and no, being able to do that only means you have a good healer that's all, turtle tanks still use cd when needed same as aggressives, depends esclusively on healer's ability to keep a blue icon derps alive.

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More like, being able to output good (combined) dps while surviving is what separates good tanks and healers from average tanks and healers. As a tank maximizing group dps doesn't only rely on our personal dps, we need to rely on the other tank as well as the healers in the group. The tanks in the best groups in the game do outstanding dps while allowing their healers to also do outstanding dps. Sure it depends on the healers' ability to keep tanks alive, but it also depends on the tanks' ability to coordinate mitigation and tank swaps to minimize the healing requirements to keep them alive.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

That change would irritate me to no end. Being able to tank and do damage at the same time is what separates the skilled players from the rest. and the skilled players are working their asses off for it to show. If it was that easy to do top tier damage then tanking really would be boring as hell.

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no other jobs have this discrepancy desing, healers cleric was remove of they old status for the same reason, only tanks are the only ones how have this desing, and i say just remove a pasive debuff, you own skill with you rotation is still there, this change dont go to make magically all tanks dealt the same dps, only keep the good ones dont fight each other and the bad ones will still there until they start to learn if they want.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

-snip-
In fairness, TERA's mechanics are very different from your standard tab-target MMO. At least my short time playing it taught me that you simply did not want to get hit by avoidable attacks, so that requires a completely different mindset.
I'll be the odd man out, because having the mob's attention (/yandere eyes "he has to look at me and only me!") and letting the DPS do their thing has always been enough for me.

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Hmm, if WoW was able to do it, then it's probably possible to balance them both. I think some changes would probably need to made to passive mitigation in FFXIV though.

Yes and no. TERA was based on a damage avoidance system, but you actually didn't have to avoid everything especially if you were geared. In fact, if you were truly optimizing DPS, you'd eat attacks that wouldn't kill you.

It's just for me, if I can watch Netflix or Youtube while doing my job, I think something's wrong.

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@OP

Someone on reddit who once replied to me about making tanking more engaging:

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tera works on a damage avoidance system which is way different from the damage mitigation system we have. On the other hand the engagement mechanics you had on TERA can be partially ported to the game by having active block and mitigation systems.

If tankers had active Shieldblocks/cloak of darkness and party moves that reduced damage if properly timed and instead of relying on pure aggro maintenance we had system were CCing enemies and/or protecting party members were actually part of encounters you could get similar engagement levels. (imagine bosses having phases of enrage where they completely lose aggro but tanks could use stuns, roots, blinds and movement control to allow the party to deal with these moments...)

I don't think FFXIV actually needs much change at all in the way it deals with the holy trinity, though. There is a good market for traditional combat systems.

There are other points of the game progression, challenge and itemization that seem to need urgent reform, though.

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Work with S/E? Ok. You want to know why we have so many offensive tanks? The ONLY reason we have them is because of that stupid/lazy tank swap mechanic in almost every fight. Groups were solo tanking content with 5 dps to clear it faster. S/E came out with the tank swap. Instead of designing content for 2 tanks to actively tank or for one tank and 5 dps. If you are not main tanking, then you are a dps. That is why we have offensive tanks. Remove the tank swap, design content for two active tanks or 5 dps. Lower the demands for tanks, increase the demand for dps. Then only a handful of tanks will prioritize str over vit.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Work with S/E? Ok. You want to know why we have so many offensive tanks? The ONLY reason we have them is because of that stupid/lazy tank swap mechanic in almost every fight. Groups were solo tanking content with 5 dps to clear it faster. S/E came out with the tank swap. Instead of designing content for 2 tanks to actively tank or for one tank and 5 dps. If you are not main tanking, then you are a dps. That is why we have offensive tanks. Remove the tank swap, design content for two active tanks or 5 dps. Lower the demands for tanks, increase the demand for dps. Then only a handful of tanks will prioritize str over vit.

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I agree, content is badly designed for multiple tanks. Thats why we should be asking SE to make tanking itself better, not crying over our dps loss. I want SE to put effort into making tanking fun, let them know we want better tank mechanics if they're going to force us into a "pure tank" status while main tanking.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

I agree, content is badly designed for multiple tanks. Thats why we should be asking SE to make tanking itself better, not crying over our dps loss. I want SE to put effort into making tanking fun, let them know we want better tank mechanics if they're going to force us into a "pure tank" status while main tanking.

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My fear is that nothing will be done and I will just end up quitting. I just hope some major changes come out next week, but most likely nothing will drastically change in terms of engagement, because fight design itself would need to be changed. It saddens me because there's so much that could be done to make tanking more engaging but they have it as this thing where you just sit in front of the boss, hold aggro, pop your CDs, and you're done by GCD 10.

It's because the last 2 tank mechanic outside of a tank swap is leviathan

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Everything except one tiny little thing...how they survive. As for healing potency, before level 58, PLD has 0 self healing at all and the only capacity WAR has to heal is 100% tied to its max HP, and thus, vitality.
PLD's Stoneskin back then was affected by max HP, as is Divine Veil, and now, TBN, the most spammable DRK mitigation move, is, again, tied to max HP.

As for enmity, raw attack power is less and less important the more they buff the enmity bonus.

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Youre right, and my point about scaling attack power due to the current tank design is so we dont have to see, do so many enmity boosts about every or every other patch. Since 2.0 its been enmity boost enmity boost enmity boost. performance.That to me means that tanks arent currently balanced to scale with other jobs. And removing a scaling stats ability to scale with their performance just means monthly enmity buffs at the expense of being reasonable and having tanks progress just like the other jobs when it comes to performance. Now they dont want to just scale it all on Vit because of "hp inflation", which perhaps your suggestions to make every boss auto attack kill everything but a tank, but i think theyre realizing or stated rather vaguely that they do not want tanks hp to be out the roof high. So from my standpoint. they either need to redo tanking, or continue with cooldown popping, tanks popping tank stance "as a cooldown" literally, thats what they use it for when "dancing" and figure out a whole new way to do the role thats logical and practical.

One possibly terrible way for them to push tanks to stay in stance, since they dont want to scale their attack power anymore, is to have a real tank guage. operate similarly to the craptastic beast guage, except that using cooldowns like rampart would cost "tank guage points" for which the stronger ones would cost more tank guage. Id very much dislike this suggestion, but like one i made earlier with cooldowns actually scaling with vit levels, itd do that sort of thing.

Another way is to cause Tank Stance to scale defensively over time, or in conjunction to said craptastic guage, in that its no longer a poppable cooldown, but a buff that gets defensive stacks, the longer its used. Fight design would have to change though,.

They could keep the meta also, and just have tanks get a trait that scales defense based on hp lost, so that healers crying about how fast tanks go down, would get that artificial buffer Vit acts like. Meaning a lowe the tanks health, the higher their natural defense gets

my personal opinion would be to scale vit/tenacity and make tenacity the same as strength currently is, and have that afect the tanks damage, but thatd require some thought. I think scaling the AP with vit at a reduced amount is just fine, personally. I dont have anything against STR or VIT tanks, and in some terms both arguments hold a tiny bit of water. The problem i have is that SE doesnt want to allow tanks to deal good dps, because dps start crying. They dont want to give them a million hp because eventually, that becomes rediculous, or then people would run tanks even for the slow dps cause theyre unkillable. But they have to do something. The vit/str was something i disliked, because they didnt originally scale it with current damage that going full str went. Over time, the argument flushed. But wait theres more! Tanks get a ton a VIT and they gotta make stuff hit harder, because cure2 wont have a purpose anymore if healers mnd scales like god tier. But if they did that, tanks would deal reliable damage, comparable to dps, and eventually with how vitality is slopped on gear at increasing paces, then that vit tank will start hitting hard like dps. What do we do? Just let tanks have it. At the end of the day, as mentioned in other threads, once the OT position isnt needed anymore after overgearing, most groups replace them with a DPS. I for one, find the role stressful. But a hell of a lot less than PLD 2.0 pre buff,pre anything/ Enmity is a lot easier, but if damage or any performance outside of just to hold hate isnt scaled, you just get benched by the community, as youre not needed any more.

Part of the complaints are well thought of and then part of comments are not even mindful that the job and role isnt that popular, has a low fun factor and a majority would rather play something else. We need tanks more than just to get into queues, and part of that a big part, is the fun factor. Some like to deal comparable damage while staying alive. Why ruin that nbecause some assume all you should do is stand there and get punched at? Ontil they rewrite the entire combat algorithm, or get rid of dps checks/add phases in every boss since ifrit ever, they need to just go "ok we concede: Scale AP with Vit, or VIT/STR, dps can just shut it, since they refuse to tank, and just let both camps be hapoy. "Just getting punched in the face is fun" was said by nobody ever.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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Your ability to survive Walking Dead in inversely related to your HP. It's also worth noting that the more HP on TBN, the less likely it is to break and reimburse you with 50 blood, which is kind of what it's designed to do.

Inflating the enmity multipliers only becomes necessary when you have a large discrepancy between tank damage output and dps damage output. If there's a sensible balance and both get progressively stronger with gear, then you don't have to keep changing it every couple of patches.

I get what SE wants, but have they done anything to earn our cooperation on this matter?
Why I ask this is due to how they have designed the fights in this expansion. One EX primal have a tank swap mechanic with a timed tank buster, the other have no reason for a second tank even being there. In Omega there is only one, ONE, add and that is just a tacked on excuse for having two tanks.
On one hand SE adjust the tank jobs in the direction of being more tank and less dps, which would be fine if they also designed the fights so there was a reason for it, it is in their boss design that they fail to earn our cooperation.

Tank swap and add phases.
This is the general way things are done, SE force us to tank swap by adding a mechanic that has become insanely old by now, it is less there to bring anything to the fight and more as a poor excuse for why two tanks are needed.
And that add phase... unless the adds have some reason to be separated and does a lot of damage then this phase can usually be solo tanked.

My ideas for a fix has to do with the design of the fights.
Can they still use tank swaps? Sure as long as it is not the ONLY reason for bringing two tanks.
What about add phases then? Sure if they are designed so that two tanks are required, this meaning the adds has to be apart and they do a ton of damage.
But generally I would say less light show more content.
1: Have adds that will two shot healers spawn outside of an add phase, make them hit so hard that one tank cant deal with the boss and the add at the same time, perhaps the add give a certain debuff.
2: Have lines that the of tanks has to pick up and take away from the group.
3: Have damage sharing for the tanks.
4: Make the boss split and the two parts having to be separated to not buff each other.
5: Split the party with each part having to complete a task, during this time there will be something that a tank needs to deal with that neither dps or healers can deal with.
6: Have debuffs that the tanks have to share, this will one shot dps and healers so only tanks can deal with it.
7: Give the boss spike damage outside the well planed for tank buster, have that damage be a bit more random. Design it so tanks can survive it in tank stance even without cooldowns if healers heal us.
Most if not all of these are thing SE has done before, so I know they can do it again.
Before going further with a fight there are two things SE should ask themselves. 1: Is there a reason a group will always bring two tanks? 2: is there a reason a group will always bring two healers? If yes proceed, if no rethink. IMHO every damn 8-man fight in this expansion has so far failed those questions... heck most would fail the question if there was ever a reason to bring two tanks. Sure the fights look nice and they are fun, but they are not designed with two tanks in mind.

So if SE want tanks to use tank stance more and healers to heal more dps less, then it is on SE to design fights in such a way that there is a reason for us to do so.

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

So if SE want tanks to use tank stance more and healers to heal more dps less, then it is on SE to design fights in such a way that there is a reason for us to do so.

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I agree, SE has rarely, if ever, made content where tanks actually need to stack vit/stay in tank stance. The only problem is that they're designing the content to be cleared by the casualest of casuals. So if they design content where the best tanks can't use str accessories and/or stay in dps stance the entire time, your average df tank would have no hope of clearing. Same thing for healers. If your average healer can't make time to dps now, there's no way they'll be able to pass healing checks if SE makes it so there's little to no time for them to dps. I'd definitely say if they took this route it would be a wake up call for people to improve, but based on my experiences with people in this game so far I have little hope that most people would care to improve.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Since 2.0 its been enmity boost enmity boost enmity boost. performance.That to me means that tanks arent currently balanced to scale with other jobs.

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Frankly, I never had that many issue with enmty, simply because I use my enmity combo as soon as someone is too close. If people wouldn't cry that they have to use it more and lose their precious DPS, we wouldn't need these adjustement...except on Unleash, which potency nerf is one of the worst idea of 4.0

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Your ability to survive Walking Dead in inversely related to your HP.

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More HP also mean that you're less likey to need Walking Dead. And the value of Benediction increases with your max HP.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

It's also worth noting that the more HP on TBN, the less likely it is to break and reimburse you with 50 blood, which is kind of what it's designed to do.

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TBN is a mitigation before anything else. More HP means less damage taken.

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Originally Posted by Soraki-Muppe

4: Make the boss split and the two parts having to be separated to not buff each other.

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One of the few good ideas from Gordias...and it existed since Turn 1 with Caduceus. ;)

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

The only problem is that they're designing the content to be cleared by the casualest of casuals.

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People enforced STR acc and tanking in DPS stance in Alex Savage, which isn't casual content, while being the only content where the increased DPS actually matters. Kill that possibility, and the meta will fall apart by itself.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

People enforced STR acc and tanking in DPS stance in Alex Savage, which isn't casual content, while being the only content where the increased DPS actually matters. Kill that possibility, and the meta will fall apart by itself.

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No it won't. So long as the OT has nothing to do but wait for a swap, the meta will remain the same. When the OT is waiting, he is a dps. Dps have to strive for higher numbers. If he can get higher numbers while in OT, he will strive for it during MT. We all know that will be the mentality of the 1% and thus create the meta. Think about all the endgame content that wouldn't require an OT if the devs didn't enforce the tank swap. So long as we have it tanks are dps at some point or another.

Now that we're on the subject of tanking in-content itself a lot of these ideas come straight from other games.

I am used to the tanks having to share debuffs, cleaves, and constantly swap at X stacks.

FFXIV is its own game and while these mechanics aren't entirely absent from this game I don't know how I would feel about them bringing a lot of these in and making them mandatory. Maybe in Savage only.

Also, a hyper-focus on DPS will never go away. The end goal is always killing the boss as fast as possible so no matter what changes are made the top 1% is going to do whatever it can to maximize DPS.

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Originally Posted by Falar

FFXIV is its own game and while these mechanics aren't entirely absent from this game I don't know how I would feel about them bringing a lot of these in and making them mandatory.

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I am not saying that every sort of mechanic that came to my mind should be in every fight, they should mix it up and hopefully come up with other mechanics. What I do want to be mandatory is that when SE design a 8-man fight it has to be designed in a way so that you need 2 tanks and 2 healers, not because SE say so but because the fight itself has mechanics that require it. Otherwise you might as well go with 1tank, 1heal, 6dps.
SE lowered tank dps so they clearly want tanks to tank, yet they design the fights in a way leaving tanks with next to nothing to do beside dps. They have to be consistent, either tanks are more tanky since the game demand this or they might as well give us back our dps and give up on changing the meta.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

No it won't. So long as the OT has nothing to do but wait for a swap, the meta will remain the same.

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No because every OT needs to be able to switch to MT if the MT dies. If wearing STR acc prevent you from surviving as a MT, you'll wear VIT even when OT.