Has it always been like this or...?

Ouch, you poor thing. But people are impatient.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anapingofness

If people are not after tomes and are after the card, then they can very easily set up a farming party with like minded individuals. The same cannot be said for newbies who want to enjoy the storyline.

---

Actually, the same CAN be said for newbies. What on earth would possibly prevent this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

Actually, the same CAN be said for newbies. What on earth would possibly prevent this?

---

Newbies are not directed toward party finder when they receive their quest. The majority likely don't even know what party finder is or does.

You can't blame the players, it's the developer's fault, they mixed the cutscene part of the game with the actual gameplay part of the game. When ppl q into dungeon they want to play, beat up bad guys. Not watch massive amounts of cutscenes. They dont need to flood anymore dungeons with cutscenes. Fortunately I think they learned from this mistake, Keeper of the Lake and the other trials aren't full of cutscenes.

Eh...I've never given anyone a hard time about watching cutscenes, but I'm not waiting around for you either.

I have no idea why SE went overboard with the cutscenes in CM and Praetorum in the first place though. Even on my first run through the place I found it obnoxious.

Yes it's always been like this and unfortunately the dev's insist on keeping it that way. This game supposedly tries to sell the "Final Fantasy Story" element in marketing yet it's the most anti-story design I've ever seen for any MMO. To the OP, your gonna have to rush to the endgame for Heavensward if you want to enjoy it.

Can someone tell me what SE said about this? Did they say "Majority rules" or...
I can't find a link.

Sorry this happened to you. I think from a game design standpoint it's a really hard thing to prevent. If there wasn't an endgame currency attached (or some other perk) for geared, experienced players to run it, it would take a really long time to find a group. Unfortunately, this is what happens when you design it so players have to run old content. It's a trade off at times (longer waits or forced speedruns).

Anyway I think most of the complaints stemming from use of the Duty Finder come from people having expectations that are unreasonable in a random environment. For instance, it's my belief that players shouldn't expect DF users to have watched videos or know the fight. And I think this also extends to expecting people to skip cutscenes. On the flip side of that, people shouldn't expect those who've run the content 100 times to wait. That being said, everyone should be able to expect a respectful atmosphere (no name calling, mocking, etc.) But in reality, that's probably never going to happen.

The only thing I can offer in terms of a suggestion is to try not to let toxic behavior get you down. If you make a party finder group to suit your needs or join a nice FC those things will make a big difference in your being able to enjoy the content the way you would like. I hope this experience hasn't soured you on the game too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Can someone tell me what SE said about this? Did they say "Majority rules" or...
I can't find a link.

---

Here is the most detailed version I could find on a cursory search of the forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

while this isn't limited to only the topic at hand, it's extremely difficult to prevent human error by creating perfect rules within the game system as it becomes something that forces players to go through a cumbersome process. (Such as going through multiple confirmation windows.)

Naturally we will continue to make changes to the system for improvements, but ultimately we feel that there are situations where we would like you to decide on the rules amongst yourselves. Before entering a duty, make sure that all party members are informed of the agreement and who is able to lot on which item. All party members should agree to those terms before entering to ensure an agreement is clearly understood.

Breaking these agreements, or behavior that imposes on other players' enjoyment of the game, will not be tolerated. If after an investigation it's confirmed that a player clearly understood the rules when joining a group and still acted in such a manner, proper action will be taken against the player, which may include confiscation of the item or account suspension, so please avoid doing anything like this.

---

As Camate inferred, the context in the topic is about loot agreements, but it is applicable to anything having to do with DF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gyson

Unfortunately, few would probably agree to these things because everyone wants their shinies yesterday (so they can then come here and complain about a lack of things to do).

---

This made me laugh so much, and yet managed to be make me sad at the time. Especially considering that it's... sadly... true. The biggest example of that is that during the time of which the Ninja class JUST got released, everyone had to start back at level 1, meaning lots of grinding time was needed to get it up to 50. Within two... count... TWO days of the release of the Ninja class, there were already level 50 NINs running around, complete with average item level 100-110 gear already. Some already with the NIN relic weapon already.

It makes me wonder if these players even understand the concept of the words "sleep" and "eat".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

Not true at all, story mode roulette does not require any of the people entering to be new and more often than not it's 8 people only running it for the tomes.

---

Lol really? You should read better. I never said this was the case. I said that when i sign for the story roulette i understand that im "at risk" to find a real new player inside the team.

Before saying things such as "not true at all" try to actually read.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ultear_Milkovich

Lol really? You should read better. I never said this was the case. I said that when i sign for the story roulette i understand that im "at risk" to find a real new player inside the team.

Before saying things such as "not true at all" try to actually read.

---

"If they were smart enough they would really one of these players IS here for the story mode."

That is not a maybe statement, and if you think it is you need to brush up on your english.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiroh

"If they were smart enough they would really one of these players IS here for the story mode."

That is not a maybe statement, and if you think it is you need to brush up on your english.

---

Cool. English is not my mothertongue. Im trying my best tho. People like you with limited access to other languages are always comfortable with mocking foreigners for that.

Now move on if you re part of the bad community who cant even understand that, sometimes, in a story roulette you will find a true newbie and not always 7 other tomes grinder.

Yeah move on if you don't agree with my opinions.. Wah wah, opinions conflicting my own don't deserve to be said wah wah.

I know this will probably be flamed, but honestly.. if they take out the incentive for those of the community who have already done these dungeons, you know that you will be sitting in Duty Finder for HOURS waiting for it to pop, or having to pay people to run you through. Sorry, but at the end of the day.. I'd rather skip cutscenes, and watch them later at the inn at my own convenience.

I wasn't entirely happy with my first Castrum and Praetorium experience either. I watched all the cutscenes in Castrum, though I rushed through them to the point where I'm still not sure what exactly happened in there. In Praetorium I felt forced to skip everything and even then I was lagging behind as everyone rushed ahead. :/

Being on the other side now though the rushing doesn't bother me much anymore, but I'm fine with waiting when people watch cutscenes and I'll usually wait where they are for them to come out of it so they don't find themselves completely alone.

First off, they shouldn't have mocked/insulted you. That was ridiculous and not something you should expect from all the playerbase.

Now, to the real issue, I get that you want to watch the cutscenes I do, but you also have to realize you are not the only one in that party. There are 7 other people and if all 7 want a quick run, and only you want a cutscene run then you have to resign to the fact that you're in the minority and people are going to rush it.

I don't run story mode anymore as I have nothing to spend solds on, but when I did and if there was ever a new player I would allow them to just sit and watch the cutscenes while the rest of the group cleared the dungeon, i beleive that is a fair tradeoff. You can experience the boss fights on your second playthrough.

While I get that this kills your immersion, it really is the fair option to the entire group. If it wasn't for the roulette bonus you wouldn't even get to run the dungeon as no one would really join in DF at all.

Castro and prae are full of cutscenes and a 20 minute run can easily turn to 40+ if we are all sitting and watching and taking it slow. You can't expect people who have done that over 100 times to do that at all.

As others have said, if you want to experience the dungeons as intended, then you need to either be around for when they are released, or find an FC or PF group to help you out who all agree beforehand. As I said earlier, there are 7 other people in that group and as a latecomer to the game you are in the minority.

The problem doesn't continue into the late game though, as most dungeons after that aren't so cutscene heavy and no one is going to stop you from watching Coil cutscenes.

Still, as first stated, the party was in the wrong for mocking/insulting you that behavior isn't right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

I know players who have no interest in tomes, they spam it for the card. Are they wrong for wanting to clear as many times per hour as possible?

Majority rules is the only truly fair compromise. If either side of the vote disagrees, I suggest PF as an alternative.

Nobody deserves special treatment.

---

For the Card you dont need to do random roullet, so get in with your friends if you dont like to wait...
Its the same as if you like to be kicked because avoiding the 30m timer, you could leave every time but you do not because you can abuse system mechanics - "the others" have to pay for your personal gain, and thats not good.

Edit: Lets say you doing normal DF setup because group is not full -> Discuss it if you like to speedrun or not and watch if there are "others"... thats why we have a chat system!
Most of the time i see players doing random roullet because they can not get the group full, but when waiting alone for DF to pop, you can gain bonus from random roullet too, makes no difference!
And thats where SE made their secund mistake, both "seekers" are the same and will be connected to "others"... if you join daily roulett or not - the system have to find "others".
I am not saying you doing anything wrong, but to be correct and playing as its ment to be, you should not go in with daily roulett when you just like to finish the content asap...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noshpan

Others would say "Don't use duty finder to queue up for CM/Prae".

There is no winning side to this debate at all.

---

The issue with that is that it potentially turns off new players from the game and new players are the lifeblood of any MMO. Without them MMOs start to wither. Every time a new player has an awful experience in CM or Prae and is turned of the game it hurts the future of the game. That's the reality of player turnover.

Frankly the only reason for there even to be a Main Scenario Roulette is to facilitate new players. Its very existence and the benefits from running it were almost certainly created entirely for that purpose. The very generous rewards in sols are to compensate veterans for that.

Regardless, SE seems to have learned somewhat by not creating similar instances later. Its likely Heavensward won't have a CM/Prae equivalent though I could likely see all the necessary dungeons and trials in the 2.X put into the Main Scenario Roulette.

This is really more the fault of developers than players.

I understand it sucks and that was my experience too. Basically the way the game is made makes you miss out the grand finale all the story is building up to and then later see bits of it in a journal. Not epic to put it mildly.

Ok, after seeing this and numerous similar topics, the obvious conclusion is that party content should never contain story cutscenes.

Regarding CM and Prae, with priority these should be among the first to be modified into solo content (perhaps with npc allies), and the main scenario roulette can thus be removed since it will no longer be necessary to help new players complete these instances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rufalus

Ok, after seeing this and numerous similar topics, the obvious conclusion is that party content should never contain story cutscenes.

Regarding CM and Prae, with priority these should be among the first to be modified into solo content (perhaps with npc allies), and the main scenario roulette can thus be removed since it will no longer be necessary to help new players complete these instances.

---

With a lot of these things, the primals in particular, the story already acts like you're soloing it anyway so it wouldn't even be very immersion breaking. Although CM and Prae are among the few that do actually specifically talk about there being an elite team of adventurers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rufalus

Ok, after seeing this and numerous similar topics, the obvious conclusion is that party content should never contain story cutscenes.

Regarding CM and Prae, with priority these should be among the first to be modified into solo content (perhaps with npc allies), and the main scenario roulette can thus be removed since it will no longer be necessary to help new players complete these instances.

---

Pretty much this.

I also wish they would stop gating content behind the main story, as some of us really do not care for it. Don't get me wrong, I am an FF junkie and I love the stories but MMO's stories have always been so dull for me, not to mention the way this one started... I just couldn't get behind it. Yay i'm a hero with zero depth and I save everyone a million and one times and then run some weird little errand and deliver flowers. I don't want to have to run around skipping cutscenes for an hour so I can do a new dungeon or trial.

I know people have said that the story has been amazing with this last patch, but I'm so far gone now that I've skipped every cutscene since level 40 or so, and I don't have it in me to play catch up. Maybe one day I will try to get into it.

The one story line i have been watching is the BCOB/SCOB/FCOB one, as that has been somewhat fun, but thats probably because I've always loved Bahamut in every FF :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yukiko

I am not saying you doing anything wrong, but to be correct and playing as its ment to be, you should not go in with daily roulett when you just like to finish the content asap...

---

Daily roulette is a one and done situation. Grinding a single dungeon is quite another.

Regardless, I still disagree, and for a key reason.

DF is effectively a contract you make with the game, that you get access to the instance much faster, but you have no control of who you go in with.

When you have no control, there are bound to be people with differing opinions on how to progress.

If you can accept that risk, that means you are okay with going through the instance however the majority of the party wishes, whether you are or are not IN the majority.

If you are incapable or unwilling of doing the content with said risk, then PF is an available option. One that ANY player can use.

This applies to newbies and veterans alike. Nobody has a good excuse to feign ignorance about how DF or PF function.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

Daily roulette is a one and done situation. Grinding a single dungeon is quite another.

Regardless, I still disagree, and for a key reason.

DF is effectively a contract you make with the game, that you get access to the instance much faster, but you have no control of who you go in with.

When you have no control, there are bound to be people with differing opinions on how to progress.

If you can accept that risk, that means you are okay with going through the instance however the majority of the party wishes, whether you are or are not IN the majority.

If you are incapable or unwilling of doing the content with said risk, then PF is an available option. One that ANY player can use.

This applies to newbies and veterans alike. Nobody has a good excuse to feign ignorance about how DF or PF function.

---

Nice idea in theory. However that theory won't change new players being driven away from the game by the rather awful experience of having the final step of the Main Scenario of 2.0 ruined and generally being badmouthed. I've seen this happen. That's bad for the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

Nice idea in theory. However that theory won't change new players being driven away from the game by the rather awful experience of having the final step of the Main Scenario of 2.0 ruined and generally being badmouthed. I've seen this happen. That's bad for the game.

---

Just about as bad as the poor behavior of people who do not get the concept of "Do PF to get it done how you want it done", and insist upon fighting the matter from the role as minority.

Sorry, bad excuse. Not every party has the toxic behavior originating from the majority, and punishing the majority is tantamount to asking the df short queue times to go away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

Just about as bad as the poor behavior of people who do not get the concept of "Do PF to get it done how you want it done", and insist upon fighting the matter from the role as minority.

Sorry, bad excuse. Not every party has the toxic behavior originating from the majority, and punishing the majority is tantamount to asking the df short queue times to go away.

---

I've never heard of someone quit the game because they have had a new player in the main scenario roulette watch the cutscenes. I know of two people personally how found those two instance such a poor experience that they have walked away from the game because it ruined the story and experience for them.

This is nothing to do punishing the Majority. This is about what the intended purpose of the content and roulette serves and the consequences of not being considerate to new players. Many new players don't even know how to use the PF and the quest outright states 'use the duty finder'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

This is nothing to do punishing the Majority.

---

The majority of people doing the content (as of right now) are repeat players, be it for tomes, drops, or whatever. Anything that diminishes the experience is in effect punishing these return players for the sake of the minority. This in turn makes repeat participation undesirable, resulting in drastically longer queues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

This is about what the intended purpose of the content and roulette serves and the consequences of not being considerate to new players.

---

And what of being considerate the rest-to what the majority of the party wants? If the majority said yes to waiting on cutscenes, I would certainly oblige. If you are saying that is unacceptable, you are as bad as the the people you are accusing of being inconsiderate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Ultimately we feel that there are situations where we would like you to decide on the rules amongst yourselves. Before entering a duty, make sure that all party members are informed of the agreement and [how progression will be performed]. All party members should agree to those terms before entering to ensure an agreement is clearly understood.

Breaking these agreements, or behavior that imposes on other players' enjoyment of the game, will not be tolerated. If after an investigation it's confirmed that a player clearly understood the rules when joining a group and still acted in such a manner, proper action will be taken against the player, which may include confiscation of the item or account suspension, so please avoid doing anything like this.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

Many new players don't even know how to use the PF and the quest outright states 'use the duty finder'.

---

Many legacy players don't even know how to use the PF and the PF outright 'uses the duty finder'. Again, terrible excuse. This is why we have chat, to ask if there is an easier way to form parties.

Hell if you don't know how to use PF by the time you want into Lvl 40 Stone Vigil, you are already behind the curve of the average player...

Heads up Neko. I believe there is a Cut Scene Linkshell on Balmung. They did advertise quite a bit a few months ago. Maybe make some shouts and see if anyone has it or it is still active. Also shouting in Mor Dhona on Balmung is good to lots of people just hanging out being bored.

On a semi related note. Do people still think it is a good idea to gate everything behind what has come? Players are only going to get meaner the more times they are forced to run this content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

I should be clearer. I don't see why it *should* be the first suggestion. That is, people doing the roulette should have patience for newcomers. If you want tomestones that badly, go do something else that will get them faster. Otherwise, deal with the fact that you're in one of the most story-heavy dungeons and let people enjoy their story.

---

And when all the impatient people start going elsewhere for those quick tomes, new people can enjoy an hour or more wait to get into the dungeon to begin with.

The last two dungeons of 2.0 are the only ones with a massive pile of cutscenes in the middle of them, and I don't think SE will give us any more zones with 15 minutes of cutscene in the middle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

Nice idea in theory. However that theory won't change new players being driven away from the game by the rather awful experience of having the final step of the Main Scenario of 2.0 ruined and generally being badmouthed. I've seen this happen. That's bad for the game.

---

Indeed. Who at SE thought this was a good idea??? Cut scenes at the end? Sure. Cut scenes at the beginning? Maybe. But cut scenes at the end of every little encounter and during some?? Really?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seryl199

Why queue for a main scenario quest knowing full well that the party could, and likely will, consist of one or more newbies if you don't have the patience for them? The presence of a newbie gives you a hefty bonus of soldiery, which is intended to compensate for less experienced players and offer incentive to returning veterans to help new players.

---

Very true. "Hey thanks for doubling the rewards we're grinding for, but we're still going to ruin the experience for you because, F-U! I dont like wasting my time while im wasting time."

Its the pinnacle of collective "jerk" syndrome in this game.

As for some of you ive read here, the majority isnt always right. There are systems in government in place to counter a flat majority rule and there is a damned good reason for it. The very same reason/principle for why SE should take a stand for their new players and put something in place for them not be screwed by a mob of self-centered brats who would deny them the same luxury they likely enjoyed when they first went through it. At least for DF, where most new players turn to for completing such content. IMO, a penalty for the bonus rewards for skipping cutscenes would be ideal. New players save you time just by showing up yet some would still capitalize on that rather than return the favor.

I believe that Yoshi knows the mistake he made with Praetorium and Castrum and that is why it has not been repeated since. The difference between running those 2 dungeons quickly and watching the cutscenes fully is somewhere around 20-30 minutes, depending on the speed that the player reads the scenes and continues.

Now as much as I believe that people have the right to watch the scenes they are all available in the inn at any town after the event so you can then watch at your own pace, making people stand around and do nothing for an extra 20-30 minutes while you watch all the scenes and then participate on the fight is a little bit selfish. So you make a choice, if you watch all the scenes you will likely get left behind and will miss out on the fights in the dungeon because everyone else doesn't want to waste time. If you skip the scenes you can participate but will have to watch them at the inn in the end.

The choice is yours and you should be ready to accept that if you wish to watch the cutscenes you should instruct others to leave you behind so that nobody waits for you and they can get on with what they want to do.

If you want both then that is what the party finder is for, but I advise that you should be thankful to the people who rush through the dungeons for you are likely to be waiting a LONG time to get a group together these days to do both of them dungeons where everyone wants to watch all the cutscenes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayoZ

IMO, a penalty for the bonus rewards for skipping cutscenes would be ideal. New players save you time just by showing up yet some would still capitalize on that rather than return the favor.

---

You really didn't think this through, did you. If you do this, the 'majority' currently in parties will effectively cease to exist and you will be forced to queue on your own again.

Return players don't go explicitly for the new player bonus; they go for the efficient ratio of time:reward. Forceably take that away and they will find something more efficient re:better to do. Which consequentially leaves newbies in the dust to fend for themselves, like it was pre DF.

This punishes new players a great deal, simply because a fraction of people feel like their wants should be 'entitlements', superior to the desires of the rest of the group.

Which, of course, they aren't.

If you want to reliably have your way, BECOME the majority. That is all that it takes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Watches a CS because that's how they intended it to be then my account gets banned because people who ran it 5k times get pissy.

---

No, this would not be the case. If the person watching cs is the one unwilling to cooperate with what the rest of the group is doing, which is in fact disruptive, then it would be a valid candidate. The question I would have is- did that person ask if they could watch cutscenes at the start? what was the agreement the party as a whole made? Who decided it was not in their best interest to be a team player?

GMs arent' stupid, they consider discussions before they determine fault.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

Here is the most detailed version I could find on a cursory search of the forums.



As Camate inferred, the context in the topic is about loot agreements, but it is applicable to anything having to do with DF.

---

Watches a CS because that's how they intended it to be then my account gets banned because people who ran it 5k times get pissy.
But they tell us the reason why they get bonus's is because of the newbie and it was some incentive. Let's see...Newbie with horrible experience because of people or being kicked = Possible lost of player.
Angry tryhard vet's...they get mad and that's it, continue their way kicking people. The side who is losing is the newbies...SE is losing money.
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaa. Oh well, nothing you can do on this one but change how the system works.
They wasted time and effort. The only thing I can agree is they NEED to make these things solo, and have a helping hand of NPC's and dummy down the difficulty by a margin.
Make it literally...story only mode. There, no ones pissed off anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

You really didn't think this through, did you. If you do this, the 'majority' currently in parties will effectively cease to exist and you will be forced to queue on your own again.

---

So youre saying you queue up DF solely to take full advantage of new players who join? Do you immediately drop group if you dont see the "1 or more players..." message? There are already more efficient ways of getting tomes according to some posts yet that hasnt stopped anyone.

Maybe youre not understanding what I meant... I said bonus reward. As in you skip or start a boss while a new player is 'viewing cutscene' you forfeit benefits of having a new player join the group. As well you should forfeit it. Since you like the word so much, you are not "entitled" to the bonus rewards new players give you if all youre going to do is piss on their experience.

Regardless, rewards can be easily adjusted. They can change "efficiency" with a hot fix so...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zabuza

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gyson

Poor attitudes of players aside, in my opinion the practice of scaling down the ilevel of gear in lower level dungeons should be present in every dungeon. I'm not sure why the developers are only interested in maintaining the integrity of the intended challenge only in pre-50 dungeons. I think players would lose a lot of their willingness to charge ahead without everyone else if they didn't outlevel the content by so much.

---

People were speed running CM back when ilvl90 was the highest you could go. Syncing it down to i90 will change nothing. Unless you mean syncing it down even further to i70 or something. In which case, veteran players will stop doing the story roulette altogether and just farm ST all day for tomes.

---

Of course 90 is too high. What I meant (in the case of these two storyline dungeons) is syncing players back down to a maximum of i-level 50 or 55. For each and every dungeon I'm sure the developers have an idea of the intended level of challenge - it's probably very close to the minimum i-level required to run the dungeon (or the i-level of the gear that drops within). Those scores serve as a decent guideline for what each dungeon should be syncing players down to. Why this is the norm for nearly all pre-50 content yet thrown out the window once players reach level 50 I'll never understand.

I think your prediction is off. Just as players continue to hit up pre-50 dungeons through low-level roulettes for tomes and other needs (despite the level syncing), they'd continue visiting these other dungeons as well. You'll never convince me that the developers intended for something like Garuda-Hard to be the joke-of-a-farm encounter that it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zabuza

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gyson

I also think nobody in the party should be able to prematurely end a cutscene if there's a first-timer on the run. That removes both the stress and burden off the new person and allows the content to be experienced as intended by the designers. Unfortunately, few would probably agree to these things because everyone wants their shinies yesterday (so they can then come here and complain about a lack of things to do).

---

If you do that, people will just straight up leave when they see a first timer, or they will mock and ridicule him even worse than now since they have no option to go ahead with the run.

---

I disagree that leaving will be the problem you suggest. Watching some cutscenes versus leaving and sitting through a duty-penalty plus another round of queue times? Either option requires time - at least by sticking with the former they get the dungeon done. And who is going to "mock and ridicule" a player for being new to a dungeon, particularly if it's SE making the cutscenes mandatory? It's out of the player's hands at that point (which is the whole point).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaa. Oh well, nothing you can do on this one but change how the system works.
They wasted time and effort. The only thing I can agree is they NEED to make these things solo, and have a helping hand of NPC's and dummy down the difficulty by a margin.
Make it literally...story only mode. There, no ones pissed off anymore.

---

Thay idea remind me to SWTOR. They made a dummy to help any first timer doing a dungeon that is mandatory to make a group (main story). Only the person entering for the first time get the bonus and gears drop, and she/he can take all the time to fish that dungeon. By the second time you try to farm that place you are forced to queue, and the CS are minimum to none because you already watch the CS in story mode. They should do the same here. In that way everybody is happy.

Like others have said use party finder or get a good fc to help. Ppl can be toxic on here sadly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayoZ

So youre saying you queue up DF solely to take full advantage of new players who join? Do you immediately drop group if you dont see the "1 or more players..." message? There are already more efficient ways of getting tomes according to some posts yet that hasnt stopped anyone.

---

Again you assume it is always about tomes. People also farm it for the Gaius card. And no, I do not queue CM or Praet anymore due to how hostile new players can be. The time wasted in there doesn't make it worth my time, but I am not everybody, and stand by the point that WHOEVER agrees with the majority vote, be it story mode or speed run, is the only truly entitled segment of the party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KayoZ

Maybe youre not understanding what I meant... I said bonus reward. As in you skip or start a boss while a new player is 'viewing cutscene' you forfeit benefits of having a new player join the group.

---

Maybe... you are not understanding what the true consequences would be... if you had your way.
So as you are inferring, every cutscene is forced upon players, even those who have seen them. How is this going to compel returning people to even consider making your queues more convenient, when the time-reward ratio is so unappetizing? The answer is, they will forfeit going at all. Indirectly punishing new players even more. With extra long queue times.

Granted, it won't affect those farming Gaius cards, so you will still have them queueing for you. And wanting speed runs. Why again are they less deserving of the experience they want? If they are the minority, great, story mode. If not, great, speed mode. Simple.