The problem with Summoners

I'm in agreement, and I say this as a former SMN fanboy. It was my first class, one day I just decided to try BLM and I never looked back. SMN is without a doubt the class lacking most in the game. It is very bland. I feel all the classes have their "hell yeah" moments except SMN. With BLM its double flaring and getting crazy procs. Plus BLM just has CRAZY utlity that is fun as hell to excecute in PVP. I love using atheral manipulation to zoom back to the party if I stray to far in PVP (its awesome using it in instances too). I think a lot of SMN blandness comes from the fact it is a DOT class with no good burst. Also SMN is hell if you're on PS4. Micro-managing with the pet was made for PC it's absolutely terrible on consoles and can cause you to screw up in instances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vallhallix

Also SMN is hell if you're on PS4. Micro-managing with the pet was made for PC it's absolutely terrible on consoles and can cause you to screw up in instances.

---

Depends on the player really. I have no problems managing pet on a controller whatsoever. Just needs some getting used to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vallhallix

I'm in agreement, and I say this as a former SMN fanboy. It was my first class, one day I just decided to try BLM and I never looked back. SMN is without a doubt the class lacking most in the game. It is very bland. I feel all the classes have their "hell yeah" moments except SMN. With BLM its double flaring and getting crazy procs. Plus BLM just has CRAZY utlity that is fun as hell to excecute in PVP. I love using atheral manipulation to zoom back to the party if I stray to far in PVP (its awesome using it in instances too). I think a lot of SMN blandness comes from the fact it is a DOT class with no good burst. Also SMN is hell if you're on PS4. Micro-managing with the pet was made for PC it's absolutely terrible on consoles and can cause you to screw up in instances.

---

I agree the blandness of the Summoner comes from SE making them a DoT class which doesn't fit the overall theme of the Summoner. Like the Black Mage the Summoner is a bursts direct damage dps but they bursts in different ways. The way SE designed Summoner was like taking two people that want to kill each other and forcing them to get married while waiting for them to implode. That's exactly wants happen the Arcanist and Summoner combo imploded.

Yeah they could have done it differently with the pets. Now that i've been playing Ninja I see how they could have implemented summons better. SMN could have stayed bursty and instead use combos to summon different pets (on a timer ofcourse) to execute attacks rather than having them be pets. Maybe they could have had a damage increase but longer cooldown. It would have been much better imo. Not to mention all the "summon combos" would get used, with the pets as they are now you have 2 useless ones that hardly get used. I wasn't around when SMN released, was the class rushed or something? I feel like SMN got the short end of the stick because both Sch pets are useful and only one SMN pet is required. SMN won't get an overhaul though, that's just wishful thinking but some things that they can do to make it better.

- Shorter cooldown for enkindle
- Bane needs to effect the entire mob, Smn is the only dps with a limited AoE
- One good bursty skill that isn't tied with aether stacks
- Aetherflow buff
- Make titan and ifrit better.

Ifrit is pretty good already, if contagion was swapped over, no one would ever use garuda.

Can't make titan better than actual tanks, would just be unfair.

They don't have to make Titan a super tank, I would settle for giving them better utility equal to Garuda's.

I hope so much that in 3.0 they give us contagion instead of linking it to garuda and get rid of or fix Tri Disaster >.< Also fix the pet AI...Ifrit dies so much..D:

Am very interested to see what role Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva (if they putting her in) will have :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sanguisio

... Can't make titan better than actual tanks, would just be unfair.

---

Ifrit's Radiant Shield needs to be changed to a utility ability that either gives him a str boost for x seconds or dmg received reduction.

Why can't Titan be buffed? You said to not make him "better " than actual tanks. First off he's not even as good as an actual tank. Secondly he's an actual tank... A small buff to put him on par with pld and war wouldn't invalidate pld and war, it would just create additional possibilities within already existing content and future content.

Titan will never outperform player tanks... Because in the end is just a simple ai controlled pet that can make player tanks life easier if desired.

Also I agree with most smn that Garuda's contagion needs to be a smn ability and give garuda a magic based self buff or other sorry buff that causes all aoe dmg she does to inflict a dot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

snip

---

Why does ifrit need another utility, he stuns and does great dmg, 2xcrit chances compared to garuda and he benefits from DPS class debuffs e.g. WAR. Yeah I would like them to buff the pets immensely but even though its called SMN, I have given up on them even trying to make it a pet based class.

Titan egi is fine to tank with, too many people try to just SMN him with VIT accs which means you are gimping his emnity generation. So far i've tanked all of the primals with him (ramuh pre update) and did just fine with the normal party compo minus the tank. The only primal is havent managed successfully tank is Shiva, ifrit ex, Ramuh post update, havent tried SCOB or FCOB yet. For a SMN pet that is pretty ridiculous. It would be nice if he had a provoke, AOE skill, or more def CDs. But if he becomes too good, you are gonna piss off part of the player base unnecessarily.

It's a nice idea, but a grp are unlikely to take a SMN who is going to use Titan to alleviate some stress/pressure unless it means dropping an actual tank to bring another DPS. You either have titan good enough to replace a tank, able to pick up adds in midst of a fight which also means dealing with summoning MP issues, or he is not going to be worth it.

Garuda needs a buff full stop, she is weak.

Titan is def not even close to being on par with real tanks. He struggles with multiple enemies and the moment he loses aggro it's almost impossible for him to get it back.

I explained that ifrit's radiant shield is a wasted spot. So logically he either needs a replacement attack or buff. I also said that a self dmg buff OR >a defense buff would be useful<

I agree Smn putting vit accessories on to increase titans hp isnt optimal. I've done this myself before and it ruins the smn total dps... Plus it's been tested and proven that the vit only increases titans hp not his physical or magical defense which is an important aspect of anything tank oriented... Unless it's an evasion tank. Titan needs better threat and defense. Not over the top stats, just "save the party if tank dies and is recouping" stats, heal able like a normal tank in other words. Side note; I've done all smn hard mode dungeon runs and it is hands down the funnest time I ever had in ffxiv. This is my opinion but I feel like if that's how I wanna play the game then SE shouldn't be objectionable to me using mechanics in an interesting manner since the game is about having fun in the first place. Buffing Titan makes more content than just hard dungeons open to ppl that wanna do this because they love smn.

Of course garuda is weak. That's why I said give her a self dmg buff or a buff that causes her dmg abilities to apply a dot...

Inb4 "this makes smn too OP" : smn is about versatility. If you give us a tank, melee, and ranged pet... Then don't half ass then. These are our bread and butter, they make the job shine.

Im not gonna argue with you guys.

From personal experience I havent had issues with Titan holding hate on multiples.

For the SMN class in this game, the only thing that is our bread & butter is maintaining DOTs and ruin spamming, anything else on top is a bonus. As discussed in countless threads, this SMN is an ACN with a few added extras. The dps comes from maintain DOTs and making sure you get as many ruins + festers in as you can; unfortunate I know.

I dont what the issue is with Titan doing HM dungeons, Buffed AOE on pull, then keeping an eye on the threat levels of mobs rotate him around to make sure he maintains it.

The only way titan could save the day if tank dies is to have a provoke or entrust mechanic added to him which would be great. When you use titan you need to use sustain.

Anyway i'm done commenting on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

I agree Smn putting vit accessories on to increase titans hp isnt optimal. I've done this myself before and it ruins the smn total dps...

---

While I agree that putting on vitality accessories isn't optimal, I find myself going back to a VIT accessory set for soloing peisteskin maps, because higher max HP means Sustain heals for much more, being that it is a % heal. I focus target him, keep sustain up, and nothing can kill him. The hardest has been the marlboros because of bad breath, but even they're beaten. It's a balance when you use vitality accessories, because titan lasts longer and you pull less hate. You just need to stay alive and beat the timer.

For right now, this works, but I'm totally up for changes come 3.0.

I think Titan does his job well-enough right now though a Provoke on him would be kind of cool. As for the egi designs, I feel that Titan and Ifrit look fine, but Garuda just looks bad to me. She could use something to make her look a bit more like her Primal form. As for the class, it's fun but I just feel as if I get a bit more bang for my buck as a BLM. Enkindle CD reduction or Tri Disaster (I don't PvP so forgive me if it's useful there) change would be fantastic for AoE. I'm cool without doing as much damage as BLMs, I just want to do more than I do right now in those big pulls.

EDIT: Has there been any discussion on Spell Speed and the Arcanist class as a whole for 3.0?

The Summoner needs to be split from the Arcanist to make an actual Summoner. The tradition Direct Damage Bursts and AoE Bursts Summoner fits much better in this game then the DoT Arcanists/Summoner since in almost ever encounter it requires DPS to burn enemies down as quickly as possible which the !Summoner! falls short in. The Summoner needs flashier and powerful spells just get rid of the DoT poisoning spells. Give the summons procs and AoE Bursts abilities. The Summoner itself should have an emphasis on summoning and pets with Geomancer spells which fits more within the theme of the Summoner since they are spirit tamers.

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brianmj

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

---

Where as this is quite true, there are also some technical issues stemming from SCH/SMN sharing the same base class that do need addressing moving forward. If you look at the latest buffs the SMN got with ruin/ruin 2, the devs acknowledged that this is all they really could do as anything else may have made SCH too powerful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brianmj

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

---

There are a few ways to buff the Summoner without buffing Scholar. SE could have reduced the cool down on Enkindle to give the Summoner more reliable bursts. Buffed the the Egis damage so Summoner don't have to rely on deteriorating damage of DoTs.
SE should've put an emphasis and focus on Summoning Magic and Pets instead of Dots. The Summoner has both technical and them issues. From a technical stand point Summoners are a poorly optimized DPS because DoTs which are their main source of damage rapidly deteriorates and plateaus faster than any other DPS. Also from a technical stand point the Summoner as it is now doesn't have a place in groups because the game is designed around bursting enemies down as quickly as possible and putting out tons of Dps. The Black Mage procs and has Flare to bursts mobs down fast and efficiently. The Monk has blunt damage and high sustained dps. The Dragoon has blunt damage and some AoE. Ninja has madras, bursts and can evade. The Bard has songs to buff the group and can front load damage on demand which justifies its low DPS. The Summoner brings nothing to the group I would go as far to say the Summoner brings less than nothing to the group dynamic because it doesn't excel in any area damage is lackluster, Bursts is mediocre and they have poor sustain damage. The overall theme of the Summoner is in question as well because it was lazily designed and as a result it is simply an Arcanist with a few extra abilities since it emphasizes and focuses on DoT Poisoning Magic. This game is designed around high sustain damage, blunt and bursts damage because mobs are burned down before the Summoner can get their full rotation on it causing dps loss. Bosses are a massive DPS check and require high sustained damage, blunt and bursts damage to progress in Raids. SE should re focus the Summoner around an emphasis on Summoning Magic and Pets making the Summoner a bursts dps since that fits better with the way this game designed.

The Summoner is already extinct coming into 3.0 so at this point their is already a massive amount of people already pissed off with the way the Summoner has been handled. Almost everyone will be happy with a Summoner re design except for that one person on the server still playing Summoner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brianmj

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

---

So I should be happy with having no changes to my rotation when I get a job while other jobs get spells and skills that actually make a difference? Secondly, even artists are subject to criticism. If everyone just accepted what something is and ignored it, improvement or change would never happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brianmj

The problem with Summoners is that many of them are unappreciative of the current iteration's play style. Instead of realizing this isn't for me, I should try another job, the therapeutic method is to create threads and posts ad nauseam trashing someone's work of art, someone's creation.

---

A lot of players have already realized the current iteration play style of the Summoner isn't for them and have mass migrated to other jobs such as Black Mage, Ninja or Scholar resulting in the mass extinction of the Summoner or at the least put them on the endangered list.

So initially I was a big fan of Contagion being SMN ability, but I feel that would tip the scales in a quite decisive direction towards Ifrit and essentially make him unbeatable to an extent.
If SMN Contagion affects Ifrits Enkindle? That would be silly.

Also Garuda loses essentially the reason to use her. Aside from a fight like T9 where the boss moves around a lot and jumps all over, Ifrit would trump her in every single fight. She would need a massive buff to compete at that point.

The only use for Garuda would be one of two, in an enviorment where magic is utilized (T11) or fights that are dangerous to receive damage at melee range/ fights that have a lot of arena wide movement of the boss.

Titan, I feel definitely needs a Provoke. However this is something you have to be careful with because it can potentially be quite op, by allowing tanks to dodge mechanics. Imagine how much pressure is removed if a titan egi which can resummoned endlessly, can provoke a mechanic like ravensbeak in T9 savage or Revelation on T12 or Ahk morn on T13.
So perhaps a Provoke with a 3-4min CD or some restriction on it.

As for Ifrit, he does not need a buff.

An old suggestion was to give SMNs a passive party wide buff depending on what PET they have out, and while I love the idea, I feel that could also tip scales further in Ifrits favor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lilyarel

So I should be happy with having no changes to my rotation when I get a job while other jobs get spells and skills that actually make a difference?

---

Yup. Summoner is just an Arcanist with Fester. For those of us that like the dot/pet play style, the current situation is fine. In your original post you mention Summoner lacks a "feel good" quality. This speaks more about your tastes than any problems the job may or may not have. An artist cannot please everyone. If what you have in front of you does nothing to wet your whistle, then it's up to you to move on to the next piece. I'm in the same situation with MNK and THM, they do nothing for me. But I don't create threads detailing how those jobs need to be reworked, I just don't level them. MNK and BLM mains would not appreciate it if I campaigned to have their jobs remade.

It's not my place to tell other people not to play a job dotdotdot

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brianmj

Yup. Summoner is just an Arcanist with Fester. For those of us that like the dot/pet play style, the current situation is fine. In your original post you mention Summoner lacks a "feel good" quality. This speaks more about your tastes than any problems the job may or may not have. An artist cannot please everyone. If what you have in front of you does nothing to wet your whistle, then it's up to you to move on to the next piece. I'm in the same situation with MNK and THM, they do nothing for me. But I don't create threads detailing how those jobs need to be reworked, I just don't level them. MNK and BLM mains would not appreciate it if I campaigned to have their jobs remade.

It's not my place to tell other people not to play a job dotdotdot

---

Then play Scholar since they are the better of the DoT/Pet play style since they can DPS, buff and heal.
Which is the problem because why bring a Summoner to anything when Scholar completely dominates it and has unique skills optimal for DoT/Pet style of play while the Summoner is built for bursts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brianmj

Yup. Summoner is just an Arcanist with Fester. For those of us that like the dot/pet play style, the current situation is fine. In your original post you mention Summoner lacks a "feel good" quality. This speaks more about your tastes than any problems the job may or may not have. An artist cannot please everyone. If what you have in front of you does nothing to wet your whistle, then it's up to you to move on to the next piece. I'm in the same situation with MNK and THM, they do nothing for me. But I don't create threads detailing how those jobs need to be reworked, I just don't level them. MNK and BLM mains would not appreciate it if I campaigned to have their jobs remade.

It's not my place to tell other people not to play a job dotdotdot

---

Well said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Then play Scholar since they are the better of the DoT/Pet play style since they can DPS, buff and heal.
Which is the problem because why bring a Summoner to anything when Scholar completely dominates it and has unique skills optimal for DoT/Pet style of play while the Summoner is built for bursts.

---

Only, some of us don't want to be pigeonholed into healing.

You don't like the job. We get that. Everyone gets that. Some of us do like it, and we sure aren't going to play a role that we don't enjoy just because you want to wittle summoner numbers down to warrant an overhaul.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Natsuno

Only, some of us don't want to be pigeonholed into healing
You don't like the job. We get that. Everyone gets that. Some of us do like it, and we sure aren't going to play a role that we don't enjoy just because you want to wittle summoner numbers down to warrant an overhaul.

---

The Summoner numbers have already wittled down to barely seeing any on the server to to warrant an overhaul and as a former Summoner main I should know. The Summoner has a lot of Technical issues an endgame and is worthless in group content. The way content is designed with little down time, massive amount of up time and adds needed to be bursts down quickly or a wipe negatively impacts Summoner because they are mediocre in areas of DPS that matters. There is no point in bringing a Summoner to a group when they are outclassed by a large margin an all areas of DPS by other jobs. Final Fantasy III and Final Fantasy Tactics perfected the class/job system as well as perfected the Summoner there was no reason for SE to deviate so much from the original concept of the Summoner. The Summoner in Tactics branched from the Elementalist which calls upon the spirits of nature to deal Earth, Fire, Water and Wind Elemental Damage. Also the Summoner in Final Fantasy III and Final Fantasy Tactics specialized in Massive AoE Bursts with the Summon dealing Massive AoE Bursts as well. The Black Mage specializes in Massive Single Target Bursts and the Summoner should specialize in Massive AoE Bursts that's how they are suppose to contrast each other.

The AoE Bursts iteration of the Summoner from Final Fantasy Tactics Advance better fits the way content is designed in this game then the DoT iteration.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Snip.

---

If you're a former SMN main, why even bother continuing to post about SMN anymore? Stop making up facts to further your arguments. People still play the job and that's a fact. It's far from worthless in endgame. Is it optimal? No. You want worthless? Go back to WAR 2.0. That crap warranted the massive buffs it deserved in 2.1.

And again, stop comparing past iterations from turn-based RPGs. They do not translate well into online action RPGs where balance must be kept. This argument can be made to any job in any FF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

If you're a former SMN main, why even bother continuing to post about SMN anymore? Stop making up facts to further your arguments. People still play the job and that's a fact. It's far from worthless in endgame. Is it optimal? No. You want worthless? Go back to WAR 2.0. That crap warranted the massive buffs it deserved in 2.1.

And again, stop comparing past iterations from turn-based RPGs. They do not translate well into online action RPGs where balance must be kept. This argument can be made to any job in any FF.

---

The single player turn based RPGS is the resource material for all classes/jobs SE took the jobs form turned based rpgs and adapted them to an MMORPG format so don't give me that bs on about a the turn base iteration of the Summoner won't translate well. The DoT iteration of the Summoner is poorly optimized for this game while the traditional iteration of the Summoner fits perfectly. The arguments I made aren't made up they brute facts every since 2.4 the Summoner population has been decimated they either went Ninja, Healer or Black Mage because they are much more satisfying jobs. The Summoner has nothing and its painfully obvious that it's time for SE to return Summoner to its roots as a AoE Bursts Specialist with Average Single Target Bursts it's time to bring back the spiritual element to the Summoner by replacing there Arcanist abilities with Elementalist abilities. After the most recent buff most of the player base will agree that Summoner and Scholar should no longer share the same Base Class and the Summoner should be separated from the Arcanists The only people who keep saying Summoner is fine and doesn't need to change are the people that want to feel like a special snowflake and be one of the few that still uses Summoner.

Ardan I bet you'll be happy if you were the only person still playing Summoner even after everyone else has switched to the Dark Knight, Machinist or Astrologian since they will have a much more interesting play style then the Summoner. The Ninja already decimated the Summoner population the new jobs will put the Summoner in its eternal resting place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Snip.

---

You can't claim everyone jumped from SMN to whatever based on them not liking the job for what it is, that's just not true. Everyone has their own reasons, but the primary one is endgame. SMN just wasn't built for Final Coil and are now seeing it's flaws, hence people jumping. Last I checked, nobody is arguing against change, as in adjustments to it's current playstyle. The change you want is to feel like a special snowflake, summoning godlike beings, destroying stuff left and right. You've been whining for it since day one. Source material is just that: source material. How someone uses it depends on what they want to do with it.

And it's a bit of stretch to even presume the new jobs will be more interesting to SMN, let alone the rest of the jobs. A lot of people jumped to NIN, not all of them came from SMN. And I would gladly play the job I liked and not care what anyone says. I primarily played PUP in XI and played it well, despite its' weaknesses and I would do it again if I could.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

You can't claim everyone jumped from SMN to whatever based on them not liking the job for what it is, that's just not true. Everyone has their own reasons, but the primary one is endgame. SMN just wasn't built for Final Coil and are now seeing it's flaws, hence people jumping. Last I checked, nobody is arguing against change, as in adjustments to it's current playstyle. The change you want is to feel like a special snowflake, summoning godlike beings, destroying stuff left and right. You've been whining for it since day one. Source material is just that: source material. How someone uses it depends on what they want to do with it.

And it's a bit of stretch to even presume the new jobs will be more interesting to SMN, let alone the rest of the jobs. A lot of people jumped to NIN, not all of them came from SMN. And I would gladly play the job I liked and not care what anyone says. I primarily played PUP in XI and played it well, despite its' weaknesses and I would do it again if I could.

---

You aren't very good at arguing a point, Ardan. The reason people don't argue about changing the core mechanics of Monk or Blackmage is because they invoke some of the classic Final Fantasy feeling. They aren't exact iterations of the previous generations, but they resemble them. Summoner has been receiving flak since day one because it takes the Summoner namesake and then does nothing to fill the image. The one part of Summoner that actually tries to fit the image is its summons and they are nothing but terrible copies with no real impact on game play.

And just as Akiza cannot argue the reasons for people jumping ship, neither can you. Perhaps every single one of the people who quit playing summon quit because they don't like the horn on the AF.

While I don't necessarily agree with how Akiza wants summoner to be changed, it definitely needs one. The focus of the job should be on its... wait for it... summons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

You can't claim everyone jumped from SMN to whatever basedon them not liking the job for what it is, that's just not true. Everyone has their own reasons, but the primary one is endgame. SMN just wasn't built for Final Coil and are now seeing it's flaws, hence people jumping. Last I checked, nobody is arguing against change, as in adjustments to it's current playstyle. The change you want is to feel like a special snowflake, summoning godlike beings, destroying stuff left and right. You've been whining for it since day one. Source material is just that: source material. How someone uses it depends on what they want to do with it.

And it's a bit of stretch to even presume the new jobs will be more interesting to SMN, let alone the rest of the jobs. A lot of people jumped to NIN, not all of them came from SMN. And I would gladly play the job I liked and not care what anyone says. I primarily played PUP in XI and played it well, despite its' weaknesses and I would do it again if I could.

---

It's not just Final Coils its all endgame content that is highlighting the weaknesses and technical issues with the Summoner. The Summoner has not kept up with current jobs in DPS and to make content more challenging its SE designed endgame with little down time, massive up time and mobs that need to be burned down quickly or cause a party wipe. This content design negatively affects Summoner directly. Unless SE wants to be forced to design content around the Summoner they should overhaul it to be AoE Bursts or at leasts make Pets AoE Bursts and do the majority of the damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryans

And just as Akiza cannot argue the reasons for people jumping ship, neither can you. Perhaps every single one of the people who quit playing summon quit because they don't like the horn on the AF.

While I don't necessarily agree with how Akiza wants summoner to be changed, it definitely needs one. The focus of the job should be on its... wait for it... summons.

---

I quit SMN because it felt really bland and I wasn't satisfied with its damage, and DPS classes with pets just are meh lol. SMN just feels really weak even compared to a BRD in PvP. Dots do nothing really that a healer can't heal the party from. I switched to BLM because not only are the spells better, but it just feels like BLM adds a lot more to the party in both end game and dungeons. You can't put a price on eliminating targets swiftly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vallhallix

I quit SMN because it felt really bland and I wasn't satisfied with its damage, and DPS classes with pets just are meh lol. SMN just feels really weak even compared to a BRD in PvP. Dots do nothing really that a healer can't heal the party from. I switched to BLM because not only are the spells better, but it just feels like BLM adds a lot more to the party in both end game and dungeons. You can't put a price on eliminating targets swiftly.

---

Yup, in end game content and dungeons it's alot more effective to have a BLM and every other dps class (except Smn) rather than a SMN and every other dps class.

Summoner needs to specialize in Aoe Bursts since DoT is useless in a game like this unless it's a secondary role like in the case of a Scholar. Enkindle's cool down should be reduced to 2min and the cool down should be tied to the pet instead of being a global cool down. Energy Drain shouldn't consume Aetherflow stacks. Summoner should be based on the Elementalist/Shaman in order to resemble the classic image of the Final Fantasy Summoner rather than a Necromancer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

<snip>

---

Summoner shouldn't be "X Job with a pet" at all, that restricts future implementation of said jobs and skews viability between classes. Summoner should be unique, even if that means it's a DoT class

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Havenchild

<snip>
Titan, I feel definitely needs a Provoke. <snip>

---

I don't think Titan needs a provoke as much as he needs a cover, while he could serve as a temporary tank with a provoke this could lead to possible cleaves of melee DPS if the boss turns and titan is in a bad position or the provoke could not go off in time and be wasted. I would rather him act as a barrier to death for the MT maybe he could absorb 50% of incoming damage for X seconds every 3 minutes or something? I don't think he should ever be able to pull off a tank, people would troll with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner needs to specialize in Aoe Bursts since DoT is useless in a game like this unless it's a secondary role like in the case of a Scholar. <snip>

---

DoTs aren't useless at all. DoTs are completely sustainable and extremely potent. I do much more damage than most in most I play with as a summoner in boss fights, regular upkeep of DoTs and consistent outgoing damage from pet/ruin is a viable source of DPS. Every class has DoTs in varying forms, and every class uses them in their rotation or suffers a loss of DPS.

True, an extra burst would be great for helping to eliminate a DPS check (titans heart/Forbidden portals/Plumes/nails etc) but a complete re-work and abandonment of the class isn't needed to achieve this, we might even get it in the expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner needs to specialize in Aoe Bursts since DoT is useless in a game like this unless it's a secondary role like in the case of a Scholar. Enkindle's cool down should be reduced to 2min and the cool down should be tied to the pet instead of being a global cool down. Energy Drain shouldn't consume Aetherflow stacks. Summoner should be based on the Elementalist/Shaman in order to resemble the classic image of the Final Fantasy Summoner rather than a Necromancer.

---

Why is DoTs useless in this game?

Makes no sense that they should specialize in AoE burst... why would anyone bring you to a raid with that? If you need AoE(both burst and sustained), then BLM is light years ahead, and SE putting SMN ahead of BLM on AoE, would be the most stupid thing they could do.

SMN should be a job with high single target sustained DPS, while BLM is the AoE kings with high burst.

I see a lot of people who wants more AoE for SMN, but are all talking about dungeon runs or something? because it's not the lack of AoE that's causing the low amount of SMNs in raids...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craiger

Why is DoTs useless in this game?

Makes no sense that they should specialize in AoE burst... why would anyone bring you to a raid with that? If you need AoE(both burst and sustained), then BLM is light years ahead, and SE putting SMN ahead of BLM on AoE, would be the most stupid thing they could do.

SMN should be a job with high single target sustained DPS, while BLM is the AoE kings with high burst.

I see a lot of people who wants more AoE for SMN, but are all talking about dungeon runs or something? because it's not the lack of AoE that's causing the low amount of SMNs in raids...

---

People want Summoner to have more AoE because SE stance on Melee having high single target sustained DPS while casters have low sustained single target damage. Also most modern MMORPGS since DCUO which have DoT classes give them 3-4 reliable AoE Bursts while DoTs are secondary. Most modern MMORPG s the Pet class is attached to the Sorceror.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Akiza

People want Summoner to have more AoE because SE stance on Melee having high single target sustained DPS while casters have low sustained single target damage. <snip>

---

"People" =/= "akiza" ?

I don't want more AoE. I want bane spread limitation lifted but other than that I want to reliably maintain sustainable single target DPS above that of a BLM. BLM can keep the AoE crown, SMN doesn't need it.

You really need to stop comparing FFXIV to other MMOs. DCUO especially is a terrible example since even tanks are pointless in half of the end game. FFXIV is a different beast to be tamed in a different way. If you're going to contribute to threads like these please make it meaningful instead of "Summoner needs to be "X class" from "X title" because of "X traditional reason" but also needs to be like "X competitor MMO class". It's contradiction not construction.

XIV doesn't need to be a clone of other MMOs to appease you. You can just play other MMOs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeroaru

"People" =/= "akiza" ?

I don't want more AoE. I want bane spread limitation lifted but other than that I want to reliably maintain sustainable single target DPS above that of a BLM. BLM can keep the AoE crown, SMN doesn't need it.

You really need to stop comparing FFXIV to other MMOs. DCUO especially is a terrible example since even tanks are pointless in half of the end game. FFXIV is a different beast to be tamed in a different way. If you're going to contribute to threads like these please make it meaningful instead of "Summoner needs to be "X class" from "X title" because of "X traditional reason" but also needs to be like "X competitor MMO class". It's contradiction not construction.

XIV doesn't need to be a clone of other MMOs to appease you. You can just play other MMOs.

---

People have been complaining about Summoner since day one do even if I stopped complaining 3 more people would take my place and complain aout the Summoner. DoT classes are useless in fast pace games like FFXIV because DPS can bursts enemies down before DoTs get their full duration which is a DPS loss to Summoner being mostly DoT. That's why for this game Summoner should be a Summoner/Ekementalist with the Pet specializing Massive AoE Bursts Damage.