Myth Message being used to excluded players

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

If you think you're entitled to join a farm party without clearing it, that's hilarious. Go build your own 'farm' PF consisting of only people who claim to have had the boss to 1~5% and then tell me how well you do.

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Funny, because less than a week ago I cleared Shiva EX with a party with 6 people who got the clear achievement and the party was described as a "Semi Learning party" It took a few attempts to clear, following that it was farmed without fail 6 more times. So that "FARM" party consisted of people who had just come straight out of a "learning" party. So in this case we did perfectly fine and better than most farm parties who disband after one wipe. Furthermore after the first clear one tank left and a new tank joined which also got the achievement clear on our next clear.

So this clearly disproves your theory that anyone who doesn't have a million clears cant beat content.

Hi All,

There are cases to be made for both sides but ultimately:

* The "100 Bonus Tomestones" Message is just not an accurate enough measure of a Person's Skill / Worth.

For those of you that just want to use that as the defacto way to exclude other people, fine. It's your party, your rules.

But as Angel and others have mentioned, there are also numerous cases of players who ARE more than "worthy" to join; they just don't have the clear due to various circumstances. I remember when I was just learning Turn 6 and 7 in random Party Finders, how I performed my job with No Mistakes, and yet I didn't get a win at the time. I made zero mistakes, but the party still lost.

Back when I was finishing up my Nexus, there were NUMEROUS Titan Extreme fights I joined (when Titan was on Bonus Light), and the random Duty Finder players were in High Allagan (and some had High Allagan Weapons! (Turn 9 Clear)), and THEY were the ones flying off the ledge during Landslide. LOL. Sigh. :(

So just having a "clear" doesn't mean that player is more worthy over another who doesn't. "Yes," it can be easier to just look for the Bonus Message and kick people, but that kind of blanket judgement is unfair and inadequate in measuring a person's worth / skill.

I helped a bunch of random players clear Ifrit Extreme in 1.0 (when it was the hardest fight in the game), and they hadn't beaten it before. Some of the smoothest Ifrit Ex 1.0 clears were with "Going for a Clear" players, with no previous win. Same for Turn 7 Clears for others. They made no mistakes and our runs went flawlessly (no missed Cursed Voices, etc.).

I would'nt mind if half the time i join these groups its the person who bitch about the person with solidery req who fucks up the most.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

For those of you that just want to use that as the defacto way to exclude other people, fine. It's your party, your rules.

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I agree with everything you said with exception of the one sentence I quoted above. It should not be used to exclude people from runs, not only because it is a very unreliable and extremely naive way to judge someones ability to complete content which borders on being a useless metric for making such assumptions...but also because it was never designed/intended to be used in a way to do harm to the very people it was meant to help. Please do not forget that the people using it in PF's requirements is just one portion of the problems associated with the notification at start of runs, as I mentioned before it is being abused in other areas of the game too.

I realize I got quite off track with my last post, but I agree that they should move the notification to the end of the dungeon. It will become apparent who the deadweight players are with or without the message popping up at any point, so putting it at the end will give people the benefit of the doubt.

I also agree that it can be used as a quick way to determine if the player is likely to be an asset; have the clear = decent chance they know the fight, don't have the clear = decent chance they don't know the fight. There are of course exceptions on either side hence "decent chance". I still support the use of the message as a means of filtering in PF but outside of there it's no good, and if it's moved to the end there are still other ways of checking clears before going into the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Firepower

Funny, because less than a week ago I cleared Shiva EX with a party with 6 people who got the clear achievement and the party was described as a "Semi Learning party" It took a few attempts to clear, following that it was farmed without fail 6 more times. So that "FARM" party consisted of people who had just come straight out of a "learning" party. So in this case we did perfectly fine and better than most farm parties who disband after one wipe. Furthermore after the first clear one tank left and a new tank joined which also got the achievement clear on our next clear.

So this clearly disproves your theory that anyone who doesn't have a million clears cant beat content.

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Shiva has been out for less than a month, and is the easiest primal to date. It disproves nothing.

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If the message is moved to the end, all you're gonna get is PF going back to other metrics to filter people, like linking items that drop. How do you feel now, you cleared the fight a few times but didn't win a drop so you're excluded cause you can't show proof of clear?

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Originally Posted by Firepower

Funny, because less than a week ago I cleared Shiva EX with a party with 6 people who got the clear achievement and the party was described as a "Semi Learning party" It took a few attempts to clear, following that it was farmed without fail 6 more times. So that "FARM" party consisted of people who had just come straight out of a "learning" party. So in this case we did perfectly fine and better than most farm parties who disband after one wipe. Furthermore after the first clear one tank left and a new tank joined which also got the achievement clear on our next clear.

So this clearly disproves your theory that anyone who doesn't have a million clears cant beat content.

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Few weeks ago.... you mean when it came out....
Hence most of the good players would get clear achievements too?

The longer time passes the more bads will need it, the less goods....

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Originally Posted by Staris

Few weeks ago.... you mean when it came out....
Hence most of the good players would get clear achievements too?

The longer time passes the more bads will need it, the less goods....

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That's fallacy. Pure and simple. It is the same as if someone claimed all the good players played since version 1.0 of FFXIV and all the bad ones started playing after ARR. The same reason that is a fallacy is the same reason your quoted comment is a fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

That's fallacy. Pure and simple. It is the same as if someone claimed all the good players played since version 1.0 of FFXIV and all the bad ones started playing after ARR. The same reason that is a fallacy is the same reason your quoted comment is a fallacy.

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No, it isn't a fallacy. The geared/skilled/experienced players do stuff when it first comes out, leaving the slow behind.

You seem to live in some kind of alternate reality where the ability to clear, for some illogical reason, doesn't depend on your own effort and performance.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

No, it isn't a fallacy. The geared/skilled/experienced players do stuff when it first comes out, leaving the slow behind.

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It most definitely can be a fallacy.

You are confusing skilled players with the status of their gear. There are several players that have gotten fully gears on the simple activities like Hunts, Hullbreaker and Snowcloak, then they grinded out a Relic weapon.
There are several skilled players that are "slow" and "behind" simply because they have Real life commitments that prevent them from being able to invest the time needed to achieve you faulty standard of good player.

BTW, congrats on having the time to lvl50 everything in this game (except ninja). I wish I had that kind of time to invest.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

It most definitely can be a fallacy.

You are confusing skilled players with the status of their gear. There are several players that have gotten fully gears on the simple activities like Hunts, Hullbreaker and Snowcloak, then they grinded out a Relic weapon.
There are several skilled players that are "slow" and "behind" simply because they have Real life commitments that prevent them from being able to invest the time needed to achieve you faulty standard of good player.

BTW, congrats on having the time to lvl50 everything in this game (except ninja). I wish I had that kind of time to invest.

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Her comment defending the fallacy does not change it from being fallacy or why I said it was fallacy to begin with. People start playing this game at different times, someone who was a paying subscriber before another person does not make that other person more/less skilled or a good/bad player just because reached and cleared the content at an earlier or later date. As such this invalidates the comment the other person used of which I quoted. Her defence of what I said was a fallacy has no merit due to her failure to grasp why I called it such.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

No, it isn't a fallacy. The geared/skilled/experienced players do stuff when it first comes out, leaving the slow behind.

You seem to live in some kind of alternate reality where the ability to clear, for some illogical reason, doesn't depend on your own effort and performance.

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Not quite.

For various reasons, it took me plenty of time to clear T5, mainly due to disinterest from FC members, and a huge lack of experience on my server. But I did and it was with a learning party that I had mostly trained up at that point.
Cleared Ramuh Ex not even knowing the fight past the add phase, but still actively playing a part in the fight.
Never cleared Titan Ex, purely for lack of trying. The last 3 times I DID try? Trolling tanks. I know the fight, just bad luck on a party. Three times.
Never even unlocked Ifrit Ex.
Levi Ex - 3/4 DPS, 1 healer new.
Cleared Mog Ex - Everyone new. Same with T6.


Oh, and I was technically undergeared for every one of those.

Your argument has been disproven several times over here, and far be it for me to say it but the attitude in your words gives it away. Call it like it is: the bonus message means NOTHING about a player's skill, much like you can say good gear doesn't equal skill. Because IF that were true, with everyone's current ilvls (assuming a bottom line of i100), no one should be failing ANY old content at all.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

No, it isn't a fallacy. The geared/skilled/experienced players do stuff when it first comes out, leaving the slow behind.

You seem to live in some kind of alternate reality where the ability to clear, for some illogical reason, doesn't depend on your own effort and performance.

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Oh get over yourselves...players can be behind the curve and still be good, here's how it happens:

1. Maybe they play on a limited schedule. Maybe you play 5 hours a day, and they only play 2. Logic dictates that sooner or later, they would be behind you in content, but it doesn't mean you are more 'skilled'
2. Maybe they spent the first 2-4 weeks of a new patch crafting,gathering and taking advantage of the gil train that ALWAYS happens each patch launch....esp 'Hardcore Endgame' patches, because those in a rush to be 'first' in beating a raid, likely will pay premium prices for new gears and foods.
3. Maybe they were leveling Ninja, and focused on that
4. Maybe they were on vacation, busy with work in RL or had other RL commitments that kept them out of game for a couple months.
5. Maybe they started playing last week. Sure, they still have a lot of catching up to do, but just because you are 'new' doesn't mean you will be 'bad'. Some of the best players on your server might have only started playing this month...heck, in time, they might even be in your statics. Just because they started after you, doesn't mean they are less skilled....just new.
6. Some even choose to pace themselves, only working on content 1-3 times a week so they don't burn out.
And this is just what I came up with in 2 mins of thinking about it.

I have known really good players to take breaks due to cancer, having children, boredom, needing a break, work, wanting to catch up on console games, family vacations, school, moving etc. And in ALL these cases, they fall behind...but their skill, when they return, remains the same. You really need to stop looking down on everyone just because they didn't make clearing the 'top edge' of content the first week it released their personal priority. It's great it drives you, and yes, it requires some skill to stay at the cutting edge....but really, you aren't any more skilled than those who come behind you.

^ This, all the way. Thank you Kinseykinz.

I die a little bit inside when people say "no 100 myths" for Ramuh EX on PF.

...during 2.3.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

No, it isn't a fallacy. The geared/skilled/experienced players do stuff when it first comes out, leaving the slow behind.

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You can't grasp the concept that not everyone can devote 24/7 to the game. We have real life obligations(like a job and family). Just because one does not clear content on day 1 does not make them a bad player. Just like someone who buys a run doesn't make them a skilled player.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

You can't grasp the concept that not everyone can devote 24/7 to the game. We have real life obligations(like a job and family). Just because one does not clear content on day 1 does not make them a bad player. Just like someone who buys a run doesn't make them a skilled player.

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Where did I say anything about Day 1 clears? But it is true - the players who want to push the hardest will get it done the fastest, and these tend to be players who can learn and master new stuff faster.

People allowed in your farm parties:
-Genuinely good players who kept at it until they won
-People who bought wins
-People who got carried through deception

People not allowed in your farm parties
-Genuinely good players who are oh so close to having tasted victory
-Bad players who just suck at the game. May become a win buyer or deceiver.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

People allowed in your farm parties:
-Genuinely good players who kept at it until they won
-People who bought wins
-People who got carried through deception

People not allowed in your farm parties
-Genuinely good players who are oh so close to having tasted victory
-Bad players who just suck at the game. May become a win buyer or deceiver.

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Reading is hard. I already explained my personal criteria in a post a number of pages back, and you're completely wrong. Do you want me to find it for you?

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

The geared/skilled/experienced players do stuff when it first comes out, leaving the slow behind.

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You are completely delusional if you think things are this black and white.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Reading is hard. I already explained my personal criteria in a post a number of pages back, and you're completely wrong. Do you want me to find it for you?

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I would not use the ability to read another person comment as your argument if I was you since in this same thread I have had to tell you the same thing about your own lack of ability to comprehend what another person wrote. I refer you back to page six, comment number two down from the top and page ten, comment number one at the top.

In fact the poster you replied to is not actually wrong, you very much have said multiple times in here you only want people with clears, your restrictions are to weed out those without clears (even your restriction which I have countered multiple times in here on your use of soldiery notification being justification for kicking). You have admitted you would rather take people who bought clears or have been carried more so then taking anyone who is potentially competent but not cleared it of which many people including myself have pointed out the flaws in the way you go about such.

One piece of advice I might suggest to you is if everyone here keeps arguing with you then maybe it is not everyone else who is wrong and should look closer to home as to why everyone else keeps pointing out why your wrong. You clearly refuse to take on board what dozens of people have said in reply to your arguments and counters to your stance despite the common sense they are countering you with so maybe stop posting in this thread and do something more productive given no matter how many people point out errors or flaws in what you say...you still refuse to listen.

It would be one thing if you was just arguing with one person but if most people in here (which seems to be the case over past few pages) are telling you that you are wrong on something or simply made an error in something you said then it is far less likely the problem is with them...seems to me your on the defensive and maybe you feel frustrated because (you) think your right and everyone else is wrong but if that is the case surely you would be happier moving on to talk about something else in another thread rather than go around in circles not listening to most other people here in this one.

There is no evidence that I am wrong. I build my party with my own restrictions, then it has a high win rate and I get my loot from farm content with minimal derps.

Once upon a time, I was naive and made PF for T5 back in 2.2 with echo that is as you described, blindly trusting in people to not lie. Those rarely ended well, so then I quickly moved straight up to multiple previous clears required and, to the surprise of it seems everyone but me, the competence level of the party rose dramatically and wipes went down significantly.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

There is no evidence that I am wrong. I build my party with my own restrictions, then it has a high win rate and I get my loot from farm content with minimal derps.

Once upon a time, I was naive and made PF for T5 back in 2.2 with echo that is as you described, blindly trusting in people to not lie. Those rarely ended well, so then I quickly moved straight up to multiple previous clears required and, to the surprise of it seems everyone but me, the competence level of the party rose dramatically and wipes went down significantly.

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I do not know whether it is your ego that is making you blind to the evidence many people have supplied in here or just that your in denial but whatever...many people here have given you truly vast amounts of evidence to counter your previous comments multiple times. You just refuse to acknowledge or accept that probably because of one or perhaps both of those reasons I just gave. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall at this stage and it serves no further purpose as long as you remain in that state of denial so from this point on I plan to ignore you.

Well i guess their time is too "precious".
People when they queue up should know that there is a chance of players that have not completed it.
Besides i don't mind helping new players out and reaaaaally love bonus tomes :)

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

I do not know whether it is your ego that is making you blind to the evidence many people have supplied in here or just that your in denial but whatever...many people here have given you truly vast amounts of evidence to counter your previous comments multiple times. You just refuse to acknowledge or accept that probably because of one or perhaps both of those reasons I just gave. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall at this stage and it serves no further purpose as long as you remain in that state of denial so from this point on I plan to ignore you.

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"Your experiences don't count because someone else had different experiences."

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Originally Posted by KitanaiKoneko

"Your experiences don't count because someone else had different experiences."

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You are making no sense, if you are going to jump into the discussion then take the time to understand what is being discussed. The evidence I am talking about that other people have supplied including myself is for the most part factual evidence that proves her comments were not accurate or true (some people might not have used facts to counter her stance and prove their inaccuracy but most have done so), it is not a one persons experience vs another's type situation.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

Explain to me how one single person can mess up a raid reliably at 1-5%. What the hell were the other 7 doing?

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As OP was talking about turn 7.

Very easily, tunnel visioning the boss to try and burn that last couple of % of HP and petrifying the tank/s, or missing shriek and petrifying the party. Seen it happen XD

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

No it isn't being petty at all, why should I take a gamble on someone? There's no reason at all to take someone that hasn't managed to clear it in a farm party.

My requirements for T6? i110 and HA weapon (Nexus only acceptable if you have HA too). Some might think that's ridiculous. I, however, enjoy my efficient farm party that is reliably killing the thing and getting loot. This party is no place at all for a newbie. Someone is going to point out "but HA and Nexus are both i115 wtf", and that person has missed the point entirely.

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We cleared t9 about 15 times before 2.4 dropped and still havnt seen the bow and axe drop once yet. I can bet we aint the only one.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Right, because not like there's another Thunderstruck or anything that happens shortly after favor...

Have you done T9? If you haven't wiped once to someone using LB at 5% and getting thunder then killing everyone because they are in animation lock, you clearly are inexperienced with the fight.

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Why would you LB outside of favor? I have plenty of time to melee LB while Nael is casting favor with no danger of being stuck in anim lock for the follwing fire out then thunderstruck. And if they are, everyone else moves away from them.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

We cleared t9 about 15 times before 2.4 dropped and still havnt seen the bow and axe drop once yet. I can bet we aint the only one.

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Perfectly normal. It takes on average ~21 kills to see 9 unique weapons. We got our last one on #18. This number is now higher since NIN was introduced.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Why would you LB outside of favor? I have plenty of time to melee LB while Nael is casting favor with no danger of being stuck in anim lock for the follwing fire out then thunderstruck. And if they are, everyone else moves away from them.

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Many groups have had wipes <5%, caused by a number of factors but especially thunder. This is part of learning, which you know, is part of increasing your experience.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

I do not know whether it is your ego that is making you blind to the evidence many people have supplied in here or just that your in denial but whatever...many people here have given you truly vast amounts of evidence to counter your previous comments multiple times. You just refuse to acknowledge or accept that probably because of one or perhaps both of those reasons I just gave. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall at this stage and it serves no further purpose as long as you remain in that state of denial so from this point on I plan to ignore you.

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Funny, you seem like a brick wall yourself since you keep saying clear experience doesn't count for anything. Which makes no sense whatsoever. I farmed up every drop from Coil1, have over half from Coil2, and every primal drop outside of a few weapons from Ramuh/Shiva (which are unimportant outside glamor). I have a pretty broad range of experience when it comes to farming things.

How do you prove you have multiple clears? And what's your policy on alts when their main has the clear?

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Reading is hard. I already explained my personal criteria in a post a number of pages back, and you're completely wrong. Do you want me to find it for you?

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I'd like to take you up on that. Because I seem to remember that people who bought clears get priority over those that know the fight but were just unsuccessful in clearing it yet.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Not quite.

For various reasons, it took me plenty of time to clear T5, mainly due to disinterest from FC members, and a huge lack of experience on my server. But I did and it was with a learning party that I had mostly trained up at that point.
Levi Ex - 3/4 DPS, 1 healer new.
Cleared Mog Ex - Everyone new. Same with T6.


Oh, and I was technically undergeared for every one of those. EDIT NOTE: I was i103. I don't even have a relic. Weathered Rosenbogen up til T7

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Yes, experience matters, but not nearly as much as you make it out to be. And the whole "i110/HA Weapon" thing, I understand, is simply your personal criteria. But clearly, I've proven it's just as possible without such extremes.

Cast Med. and Cast. Prat need a I50 Cap put on those 2 dungeon to prevent SR this should get rid of most of the bad behavior on those runs. And I have actually booted players for harassing other new player who have not finished it yet.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

How do you prove you have multiple clears? And what's your policy on alts when their main has the clear?



I'd like to take you up on that. Because I seem to remember that people who bought clears get priority over those that know the fight but were just unsuccessful in clearing it yet.

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Post #23, linked for your convenience.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2570209

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Post #23, linked for your convenience.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2570209

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Having the weapon does not prove multiple clears...could of got on first clear, a clear which paid for and/or was carried, a clear of which you could of been laying on the ground dead for the entire run while everyone else finished it. Multiple people have proven how ignorant using a clear is in comparison to actual ability or competence already just like they have proven how ignorant your use of soldiery notice as justification to kick and exclude people. I would not be surprised if you yourself had been carried all the way up onto that pedestal you so proudly look down on others from, even if is not the case it would not surprise me at this stage.

ilvl110 requirement is not evidence that they can clear content themselves and was also extremely easy to get even prior to 2.4 which in itself is not evidence of anything more than they have done ST multiple times using oils and sands to upgrade from 100-110, ST is extremely easy in part due to the nature of having 7 other people in your own group to counter incompetence plus another 16 from other groups to do such too and a large amount of people are carried through it all the time. It is not evidence that they can do coils or anything other than ST and even then does not prove they are capable of doing the fights within ST themselves.

I myself have had to cover other alliance groups because of people being carried in them whether having to clear their adds in time or position adds correctly as well as cover many other mistakes or signs of incompetence. Quite a lot of times I have actually seen people purposefully get killed so that they could respawn and wait outside the fight zone for everyone else to do all the work then they roll on the loot when the boss is dead. I am also not the only one who has seen this and ST is not the only place people are seen doing it.

Your an elitist but your an ignorant one which is worse, one who's ego is so big or potentially fragile you refuse to admit when you are wrong on something. You have been factually proven wrong so many times in here, it's not even funny anymore. A prime example (one of many) is from post #88 on mine in which I called fallacy on something which has been proven fallacy by multiple people, you went on to prove your ignorance by claiming I was wrong and that it was not fallacy when factually it was. You then moved the goal posts like you continue to do when at risk of having to admit you was wrong and changed the context in order to continue avoiding admitting you was wrong.

People have already reduced half the things you said in this thread to ashes and when your not trying to rake up those ashes in an attempt to rebuild and reuse, your busy moving the goal posts like when someone says one comment is factually wrong you will ignore that part and then head down a different path. Changing the subject or trying to alter the context. On this topic, on this subject you have been proven to be ignorant many times so give it a rest already. Honestly talking to you is like talking to a child, your so belligerent, arrogant and ignorant.

This does not however mean your always wrong on everything for example I actually agree with one comment you made in another thread that paying for clears is acceptable in the game, of which I made a long post about it in a previous thread, however on this subject we are currently discussing above and in this thread you have been proven wrong many times, you have been shown to be ignorant on many things being discussed within this one but your ego is not letting you admit your errors or back down when proven wrong. Do yourself a favor and stop trying to wriggle out of the hole you dug for yourself in here.

You're kind of in a bubble and I wonder the skill level of the players you play with. You've done T5 <4 times. You've only set foot in first coil in the last month, and you haven't even touched second coil. You haven't cleared TitanX, IfritX, MogX, RamuhX, or ShivaX.

Why are you trying to somehow speak of content in which you flat out have zero experience in? I guess I see why you're now trying to argue so hard that people without clears should be let in farm parties...

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Post #23, linked for your convenience.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2570209

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Doesn't prove squat. As Snugglebutt already posted, you could get a HA weapon in a number of scenarios. And you still failed to answer my question regarding your policy on alts where the character does not have the clear, but the player does.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

You're kind of in a bubble and I wonder the skill level of the players you play with. You've done T5 <4 times. You've only set foot in first coil in the last month, and you haven't even touched second coil. You haven't cleared TitanX, IfritX, MogX, RamuhX, or ShivaX.

Why are you trying to somehow speak of content in which you flat out have zero experience in? I guess I see why you're now trying to argue so hard that people without clears should be let in farm parties...

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Once again you change the subject in an effort to avoid admitting when your wrong.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

Doesn't prove squat. As Snugglebutt already posted, you could get a HA weapon in a number of scenarios. And you still failed to answer my question regarding your policy on alts where the character does not have the clear, but the player does.

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Only if I personally know the player. Also as I do a majority of T9 sales on the server, I know who the buyers are - and they don't join my farm parties anyway.

I really don't understand why people with little to no raid experience are trying to debate criteria for making an effective party, when this isn't an activity that they partake in.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Once again you change the subject in an effort to avoid admitting when your wrong.

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Avoiding what? I'm not wrong. You are since you have literally not done any content that requires spending more than 30 minutes to learn.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

You've done T5 <4 times.

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Only slightly related, but how do you know how many times someone has cleared something? Is this info viewable on Lodestone? Would be interested to see how many times I've personally killed various things (only started in 2.3 so "not many" is the answer, haha)

Just curious, I thought it only showed first kill date on there is all :)