WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

While the OP made some valid points there are quite a few players who will ask for songs at inappropriate times because they clearly don't know the layout or pace of the dungeon/fight and MP is sadly not infinite. Even I we were to waste our gil on X-Ethers they have a long cool down and if we blow our MP on smaller groups we won't have it ready for larger pulls.

That being said, every DPS should have Invigorate and every mage should have ethers available because you will not always have a bard available and need to be prepared regardless. I personally always eat decent food even in lower tier dungeons in roulette, if one fails to ensure they are prepared to maximize their efficiency regardless of what job they are on then they are no better than a bard who rarely ever sings songs.

That being said sometimes people just get a bit of tunnel vision and forget or don't notice, it's just like when you see a tank who is not keeping track of the mobs on the screen and they wander off to beat on the healer, sometimes they need a gentle reminder. Like all of these situations where you need to correct someone's error or offer up advise, tact is paramount.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

You do realise that playing songs lowers your DPS, right? That might be a factor.

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Foe's Requiem does not lower or inhibit DPS other than the one GCD you lose casting it, Mage's Ballad and Paeon however do. I'm not sure why SE felt the need to saddle the weakest DPS with a punishment for helping the party but I guess that is the cost for being able to damage on the run.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

You do realise that playing songs lowers your DPS, right? That might be a factor.

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Playing Mage's Ballad and Army's Paeon will lower DPS. Foe's Requiem has no such detriment so if you're not playing Foe with at least 1 caster in group then you are a terrble Bard.

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Originally Posted by Illya

You must be one of those people who never has used their car's horn because everyone's just supposed to see you there. Enjoy your car accidents.

Or, you know, if someone needs the bard to sing, they could just say it in chat instead of being all passive-aggressive and making a thread in the forums about it.

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lol at bards, only need to press 4 Buttons, easiest class to evade AoE, and still not capable of watching the partys MP.

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Originally Posted by Charisma

lol at bards, only need to press 3 Buttons, easiest class to evade AoE, and still not capable of watching the partys MP.

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If a bard is out there pressing only 3 buttons while playing then I'd have to request they hang up their hat immediately. Way to oversimplify it.

I rarely run dungeons. This is one reason why. I play a Bard. I can't win when it comes to songs.... Logic would dictate when you sing which song but yet my experience has proven to me that no matter what song and when there is ALWAYS some doof running with me that feels they KNOW BETTER and feel like they should explain how I'm not doing it their way. I think I'll hotkey Steadyhand II then slap'em with Hasty Touch.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

My favorite is an incompetent healer who needs a ballad because they don't know how to manage their mp even though no one died.

Or watching a Blm just stand there for x number of seconds because they did their rotation wrong and ran out of mp.

Also lol drg....no explanation needed

Don't forget monks who lose their stacks for the stupidest reasons

Or summoners who can't DoT properly

Also tanks who can't tank.

Tl;dr bad players are everywhere. People make mistakes.

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At least they are using their job mechanic, meanwhile my crystal tower run including 6 bards and not one foe's req up.

Bards. Everyone plays them, but very little play them correctly. It's the laziest dps job in the game

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Me healing 8 man trial roulette. Bard sits in plumes 5 times. I raise Bard 5 times. Other healer off the edge.

Doesn't get Ballad from any of the three bards in the party.

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After the heart phase, don't bother raising them and use the MP saved for some DPS instead :p

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Not really. Telling a BRD to sing is more along the lines of telling the WHM to spam Holy to stun packs of mobs; also keep in mind the songs are effectively cooldowns. Telling a WHM to cast heals is similar to telling a BRD to do his DPS rotation and react to Straighter Shot/River of Blood procs.

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BRD is a support class so it is like telling a WHM to actually use their heals. It can be confusing going with the generic representation of BRD that's an archer with the ability to buff occasionally, rather than a buffer with the ability to hold their own. Even the original FF BRDs can hold their own, even in XI, just not on the same level as other fighters.

Regardless though, I've seen plenty of eventually wipes because BRDs who won't use Mage's Ballads after us healers constantly raise either them or other people who don't know how avoid death.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Regardless though, I've seen plenty of eventually wipes because BRDs who won't use Mage's Ballads after us healers constantly raise either them or other people who don't know how avoid death.

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Don't forget when you spam "Ballad Please <SE.6>" in party chat only to get ignored!

This thread:

That moment when you've gone from assuming everyone is an individual who's going to do what they want unless specific or general information is presented to them, to assuming someone is going to do what you want at a moments notice. No questions asked, No warnings.

Don't assume someone is omnipotent. Don't assume a Bard has decent experience as a WHM.

I myself determine if a particular set of mobs is worth using Holy, and is not dealing enough damage to worry about healing constantly. Multiple factors go into this, such as the speed in which they die, if they have phases based on timing or health, or if the Stun applied can potentially help matters, or if Holy is pretty much going to get the job done on its own.

Then if I see a Bard I'll start to spam it, but I won't go below the amount of MP I feel is required to get us through the fight, should I need to resort to going back to healing 100% of the time. Multiple factors go into this. Such as does Cure I heal enough to get through mob damage, or if Regen + Cure I is good enough, or am I going to have to resort to some Cure II's, or even worse, Medica.

This is partly because I'm lazy and I'm not a DPS. I was being a Healer for a reason, so I didn't have to DPS most of the time.

When I ask for "MP Song" it's because shit happened and I've actually had to heal overtime, probably keeping the whole party alive, and I know I'm not going to have enough MP eventually with the amount of heals I have to put out, not every run goes smoothly.

IMO if you can't do any of this you shouldn't be complaining about bards.

And don't assume this thread is only about WHMs complaining about bards :p

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Both healers have ways to get mp back. In many parties you won't have a bard. With proper mp management you will never need ballad. A lot of bards do not want to use ballad because it lowers their damage by 20%. Proper MP management should be used instead of asking for ballad.

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This is true for SCHs only, though there are times even they run out of MP (but seem to be rare). WHM only gets Shroud of Saints which is on a 2 minute cooldown and puts on Refresh. It barely covers the MP while you're still healing.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

A drg and monk personally thanked me for using it one time....quite elusive indeed lmao.

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It'd probably be easier to use if we could see everybody's TP, but because nobody can see each other's TP, the song is rarely used because it's impossible to tell when a BRD needs to use it outside of somebody mentioning it.

As someone who played BRD for the longest time before switching mains to MNK (I just love the complexity and dem hands), I find that BRD attracts some of the laziest and worst players in the game, most of which will not touch a single song. Because the class is listed as DPS they think they're there only for damage, and will not do anything but damage. Oh I hope the Beginner's Hall shows up soon enough, or at least an actual DPS job for Archers so the ones who are BRD will actually sing.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

BRD is a support class so it is like telling a WHM to actually use their heals.

Regardless though, I've seen plenty of eventually wipes because BRDs who won't use Mage's Ballads after us healers constantly raise either them or other people who don't know how avoid death.

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Well saying Bard is a support class in this game is a misnomer still. It's more of Bard is a DPS class with additional Support abilities. One can just take off the Soulstone get a Rosenbogen or other weapon that allows it and play ARC too. But unfortunately we loose one of our attacks in doing so, not just the ability to play songs.

The problem isn't the Bard playing the song it's the fact people can't dodge attacks and you have to raise them multiple times, you're just delaying the wipe, not saving people from it. You're blaming a symptom as the cause.


That being said, if the same people keeping dying including a Bard, just stop wasting mana on them. They cry about it then it's a good lesson on why they need to learn to dodge.
In addition its a matter of playing the song when appropriate AND being in the area. I've had a WHM wander off and wonder why no mana regen because they went out of range. I had people get upset when I mark a particular healer during a primal fight like Moogle EX and take off the marker. They get no song from me. The marker is there so I know where the heck you are in the chaos of Moogles. You're not being marked because I'm a troll. I need to see where you are to make Ballad effective.

You don't want to just blast FOE away every time you see a Caster in the group that does damage. You can make things worse. You'll tick off surrounding mobs in certain locations.

You don't play Ballad at the start, you play it when you see healer MP go to half. Worse if when you watch healer MP drain because the healer decided to make friends with Good King Moogle Mog.

As others have said, bad players everywhere.

Nah this thread is about whose e peen is bigger. It's a little about assumptions since allot of people are like "she/he play this class so they should this and that"

A typical response here is too reassure the ones here that they are good players by explaining and showing their rotations/sing songs/ mp management and there's nothing wrong with that.

But I'll stand by the fact not everyone can play their class correctly or no one ever taught them how. Why am I being defensive? Because I took the role of helping those said people you guys are ridiculing and a lot of those just need a helping hand. If you're making fun of those who are lost causes then whatever idc about them either.

Tl;dr: get off your high horse, don't assume everyone you meet will play up to your expectations

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Originally Posted by Erendis

So Claire posted that there are bad players in every job and now every one is raging at her since there is no more point to another QQ thread?

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I'm pretty sure people are raging at her because of the tone to her posts, not because of what she said.

Lets be honest, the difference Foe's Requiem makes in the vast majority of parties is negligible. If you are that frustrated by your low DPS then work on your rotations and improve as a player :-)

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Snip I don't have anything to defend

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please stop with the flattery /blush. ;D you're welcome to join my kitty harem if you'd like!
Sad though after reading that. It's almost as if you have a superiority complex. I see that you're kinda like one of those people who will just snicker and grin while feeling good about yourself instead of helping those blm....if you're as good as you say you are.
I'm not even insulting you honestly I'm not. no sarcasm either...reading that is just sad for me.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

But I'll stand by the fact not everyone can play their class correctly or no one ever taught them how. Why am I being defensive? Because I took the role of helping those said people you guys are ridiculing and a lot of those just need a helping hand. If you're making fun of those who are lost causes then whatever idc about them either.

Tl;dr: get off your high horse, don't assume everyone you meet will play up to your expectations

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The people not explaining things and just come on to bash players irritates me. A person who has leveled a Bard isn't going to instantly know how much MP a WHM may consume doing certain moves. They may also think that the person has potions or food in their inventory and can replenish their mana. Or people who think Bards should carry potions to replenish MP for WHM.

That deserves a WHAT.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

The people not explaining things and just come on to bash players irritates me. A person who has leveled a Bard isn't going to instantly know how much MP a WHM may consume doing certain moves. They may also think that the person has potions or food in their inventory and can replenish their mana. Or people who think Bards should carry potions to replenish MP for WHM.

That deserves a WHAT.

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Generally if you see raise macros going off repeatedly, you should know healers MP is being taxed. Not even SCH MP will last if they have to keep raising the same Derps.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

Tl;dr: get off your high horse, don't assume everyone you meet will play up to your expectations

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Let's be honest - If you join Circus Tower and out of the 15 DPS you have 8 BLM, 2 MNK, 1 DRG and 4 BRD and yet you see not one Foe Requiem...that's not exactly high standards. If you see your mages having to constantly raise people so you don't keep wiping over and over...and you don't use Mage's Ballad....

That's a high standard? I mean yeah ARR is nothing special MMORPG wise, but that seems more like "the basics" than having high standards lol.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

Lets be honest, the difference Foe's Requiem makes in the vast majority of parties is negligible. If you are that frustrated by your low DPS then work on your rotations and improve as a player :-)

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And yet it only further enhances the DPS of good players. Funny how that works.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

They may also think that the person has potions or food in their inventory and can replenish their mana. Or people who think Bards should carry potions to replenish MP for WHM.

That deserves a WHAT.

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Honestly as a bard i learned to carry potions just to extend the durations of my songs. No one told me to I just did that myself because of all the potions you get. It's useful (slightly) if you can't do a ballad/foe duo.

I even use potions as a whm for that extra mana. And don't get me started with potent poisoning that thing helped me destroy Ramuh ex's arbiters everytime

Step 1) Look at job icons, see a fireball or a horn? Play Foe Requiem.

Step 2) Look at green job icons, does the one with a staff have suspiciously low MP? Do you have MP? Play Mage's Ballad.

This game is hard.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

Generally if you see raise macros going off repeatedly, you should know healers MP is being taxed. Not even SCH MP will last if they have to keep raising the same Derps.

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Then stop raising them. If they continue the die it's not the Bard's fault. As I said before you're just wasting mana and extending more painful gameplay. Blaming the Bard is like blaming the car in an accident if you are driving drunk and speeding. It may be nice to have the safety features in the car, but you can't blame the car if you keep doing behavior that gets you hurt or killed.

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Originally Posted by Fated

Step 1) Look at job icons, see a fireball or a horn? Play Foe Requiem.

Step 2) Look at green job icons, does the one with a staff have suspiciously low MP? Do you have MP? Play Mage's Ballad.

This game is hard.

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8 man dungeon multiple BRDs in group no one communicating who should play what and people who wander out of range of song who needs it.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

You can't manage your MP with Holy spam without Ballad. If there is no Ballad you can Holy like 2-3 times on every group, and you will run out of MP quickly

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I dunno, I find this weird.
Is the rest of your DPS really bad?
In my experience you dont need 30 Holys to kill a group of mobs...

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

Generally if you see raise macros going off repeatedly, you should know healers MP is being taxed. Not even SCH MP will last if they have to keep raising the same Derps.

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That is the healers fault then, for repeatedly raising players who can't dodge. Stop blaming the wrong persons.

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

That is the healers fault then, for repeatedly raising players who can't dodge. Stop blaming the wrong persons.

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Play healer in something that matters and try that doing that :)

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

Nah this thread is about whose e peen is bigger. It's a little about assumptions since allot of people are like "she/he play this class so they should this and that"

A typical response here is too reassure the ones here that they are good players by explaining and showing their rotations/sing songs/ mp management and there's nothing wrong with that.

But I'll stand by the fact not everyone can play their class correctly or no one ever taught them how. Why am I being defensive? Because I took the role of helping those said people you guys are ridiculing and a lot of those just need a helping hand. If you're making fun of those who are lost causes then whatever idc about them either.

Tl;dr: get off your high horse, don't assume everyone you meet will play up to your expectations

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Even new players who are playing bard should be able to play the songs, the songs skill explanations are quite forward and I don't see how anyone would think that they shouldn't use them, sure I don't expect someone to know exactly when to use it but at least they should use them and hopefully if they are used at the wrong time someone will correct and give them tips, there is no excuse as to why they shouldn't use them if someone asks for it unless there is a valid reason, anyone who doesn't want to use them are free to play with friends who don't give a damn about it but they should not bother other players in PF or DF.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

You shouldn't have to tell them to sing though o_O. That's like having to tell a White Mage to use Medica lol

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If you want a song played, but you see it isn't being played for whatever reason...then request that they play it. In addition to adhering to the request it may give them a sign to pay more attention to the party list to recognize opportunities to ballad, and/or recognize moments to play foe's, etc. It may help make them a better bard.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

It is a safe assumption that the people born on god's green earth are given the blessing of two (2) functioning eyeballs that can look at the party list, and the miracle of the human mind that can make decisions based on observation independently.

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Exactly. So given the conditions of someone wanting a song, but seeing that one isn't being played when needed, he/she can make the decision to request the song from the bard.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

Play healer in something that matters and try that doing that :)

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I do! There's a point people have to learn how to dodge. People who know the game know when there's a weak link and a healer has a right not to raise them. Funny how that works. They don't get mad at the healer, they get mad at the person who keeps dying.

I swear this blame the Bard for not playing Ballad when people can't learn game mechanics and dodging AOE is n incredibly specious argument.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

If you want a song played, but you see it isn't being played for whatever reason...then request that they play it.

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As if the "Ballad Please! <SE.5>" spam isn't enough to arouse the attention of one of the bards

Don't forget this game don't have a proper ranged physical damage dealer and people pick archer because of the logical assumption that if it wear light armor and wield a bow than it might be the class that they often play in every game. Up to lvl 30 you play as pure dps and once they change into BRD most players might go "oh.. am I a support class!??" or just keep playing the way they have been. Nonetheless, I'm yet to find a bard who refuses to use his songs once asked. Maybe if people would consider the other side they would feel less frustrated. Communication might be the keyword in this case.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

I do! There's a point people have to learn how to dodge. People who know the game know when there's a weak link and a healer has a right not to raise them. Funny how that works. They don't get mad at the healer, they get mad at the person who keeps dying.

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I'm sure you know how quick people will turn on a healer when they see multiple dead people. Party rage generally goes from Tank > Healer >>>>> DPS.

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

So.... What do you do when there is not a bard in the party? I see so many people complain about not getting bardsong, but it makes me wonder how they survive without a bard.

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That's like asking what do you do when there's not a dps in full ilvl55 gear in the party. You kill stuff faster.

When I run across a brd in DF I'm just happy if they remember that they have songs, and play them. I had a Bray HM run with a brd yesterday that played 1 song the entire run, swiftsong, for that 5 second run between the 2nd boss and the coeurl. That's more singing than I see most bards do in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

Play healer in something that matters and try that doing that :)

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So, you think the solution to this problem is for the bard to play Mage Ballad so you can keep raising the bad player and he can keep dying?

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

That is the healers fault then, for repeatedly raising players who can't dodge. Stop blaming the wrong persons.

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I wasn't going to post...but wait, what? You are saying Healers should just not raise people so that bards don't have to ballad?

Just because people happen to die does not mean they will die again if raised. That would be an assumption...

Being WHM main I manage my MP really well and in normal fights I do not need ballad. But my MP is only as good as the people in my group, IE: the other healer doing their job properly, the tank using their CDs to avoid extra damage, and everyone not getting hit by dodge-able enemy attacks.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

One can just take off the Soulstone get a Rosenbogen or other weapon that allows it and play ARC too. But unfortunately we loose one of our attacks in doing so, not just the ability to play songs.

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Which attack are you referring to? Rain of Death? That is nearly entirely useless nowadays, ever since they nerfed it. The only real drawbacks in switching to ARC are the arbitrary loss in stat points (20 dex, 10 vit I think) and that AF2 equipment and relic/atma etc. can't be worn, so you've to get other things. Allagan works, soldiery works.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

My favorite is an incompetent healer who needs a ballad because they don't know how to manage their mp even though no one died.

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I was called a bad healer for this last night during Titan HM. The thing is, no one died because I was having to spam medica after every set of plumes, and bombs, because 3 or more players were taking avoidable damage every time. I was told to " suck less" when I asked for ballad. Insert table flip gif here.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

And don't assume this thread is only about WHMs complaining about bards :p

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It may not be, but it is the primary focus of this topic, as directed by the topic creator.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Me healing in 4 man high-level roulette with two bards. Doubling both bard's DPS with Holy to get us through trash faster.
Doesn't get Requiem or Ballad.
Doesn't get Ballad from any of the three bards in the party.
Me healing 8 man trial roulette. 3 black mages and 1 bard against Garuda.
Doesn't see Requiem once.
Me finding any bards in roulette.

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It's also been the primary discussion within the rest of this topic. And it's easy to see why. Black Mages could see some benefit with Foe's Requiem but they've gone through leveling without it, and are experienced enough to not rely on it. You don't generally rely on someone else to help you kill things. On the other hand, the healer is often the crux of the party, and the Bard has a skill to help them manage their MP when they need it most. But let's not forget that in a perfect scenario, the DPS are only getting hit by attacks that ignore enmity, and they're avoiding all AoE's. In a perfect world the party isn't giving the healer any undue stress.

But of course the world is not perfect. I'm simply stating why White Mages, with the lack of MP management Scholar has, and the potential profit to be had with a Bard and a White Mage, White Mage is more often than not going to be the one to complain about a Bard, if anyone is complaining about a Bard.

Although should your statement be considered a reaction, rather than a preventive measure, you've assumed that I've assumed this entire thread is only about White Mages complaining about Bards, which seems rather hypocritical to me.

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Originally Posted by Charisma

lol at bards, only need to press 4 Buttons, easiest class to evade AoE, and still not capable of watching the partys MP.

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-Looks at lodestone, notices no ARC class even leveled to one, tries to bash BRD players by saying it's the easiest class in the game-

I derno, if your input is valid sir/madam.

This thread is hilarious.

Yo, one thing I wish they fixed about songs that might force baddies to use them more, would be to actually make us sing, like a different tune while we have a song up. Instead of just -animation- I think a gimmick like that would be neat.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

As if the "Ballad Please! <SE.5>" spam isn't enough to arouse the attention of one of the bards

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*sigh* that would be requesting that they play it obviously. Now you're making a situation where someone is repeatedly asking for it to try to deflect my response to your response to my question to the OP. But your initial response to me was what? No one should have to say anything. And the OP didn't mention anything of repeated requesting for ballad as well. That implies the situation is a bard knowing when to play songs when not requested to play, not a bard not playing when repeatedly asked to play. Others have brought that example up later in the thread so they could bash a different set of bards, but that was never what I was talking about in response to the OP. Please stop with the making up a hypothetical to support an argument then changing the hypothetical altogether, and, thus, attempting to change the argument, when your first doesn't work.