So, now Monk/Dragoon have to compete with yet another class?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cynric

We really dont have enough info to jump the gun on this one yet.

---

But they will anyways :/

You guys realize that nin is gonna be dex class right? So quit Q.Qing about loots

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drumm1nK1d

You guys realize that nin is gonna be dex class right? So quit Q.Qing about loots

---

Was this confirmed by SE?

It would only make sense if Ninja shares the same loot with Monk which has STR as main attribute.
I was always wondering when the monks get a class they can share their gear with, so far only Monk, Dragoon and Bard have no one they share their gear with, the Bard will mostlikely share their gear with the gunner class while the Dragoon maybe with Samurai in the future. So it makes only sense that Ninja can use Monk gear.
It kinda sucks to be stuck with one class and having it geared while other people can reroll like BLM going SMN, thats not really an option for monks and dragoons since they share only their accessoires.

Dual-wielding guns, yes please!

Most Dex stuff is labeled as Aiming and affects long ranged attacks, yes throwing knives are ranged attacks thank you and it also affects parry rate no need to mention it. I guess the lazier route if they do somehow pick Dex as the class' main stat would be to rename aiming stuff rather than implementing Musketeer and avoid the issue altogether, always the backwards route.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Drumm1nK1d

You guys realize that nin is gonna be dex class right? So quit Q.Qing about loots

---

Why? You're assuming that just because they are nimble (which generally refers to dexterity or agility) that SE will change the way that stats currently work, without any other fundamental changes to the battle system.

DEX is ranged damage. STR is melee damage. Unless NIN is a purely ranged job, which it isn't, then it will be STR based.

I think they'll most likely add a 3rd set of accessories for nin which might actually give mnk/drg more potential drops if they continue to be made for all classes. I'm thinking that nin might just be the first job that actually relies on skill speed for a main stat over determination/crit rate which would be a game changer in my opinion.

I don't think nin will use Dex, this isn't FFXI and Dex is labelled as ranged damage already which nin is clearly not. The only stat that might have some extra effect on nin might be Int because of the ninjutsu, but that's just speculation.

Now it is only a matter of time....*whisper* ninja

http://37.media.tumblr.com/d17109fb5...rfz7o2_500.gif

I dont mind havin another melee. Ill be switching to maining nin as it's what ive been waiting for since I started maining monk in january. Hopefully nin and mnk share gear so i can gear 4 classes at a time lol (BLM alt for gear distribution)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Themis

DEX is ranged damage. STR is melee damage. Unless NIN is a purely ranged job, which it isn't, then it will be STR based.

---

There's nothing stopping SE from making Rogue/Ninja's melee damage scale with DEX. Lots of other games do it that way without issue: WoW, Dungeons and Dragons, etc. "Damage scales with STR for these classes, and scales with DEX for these other classes."

It'd really only necessitate a change to the tooltip text to indicate that fact. In addition, it'd provide some (needed) balance to the loot competition between STR and DEX drops.

Fairly sure it'll be DEX based.
Other games use traits to convert a stat to something else. So I am willing to bet there will be a trait to convert DEX attribute to attack power or something along those lines. Similar to how some of the talents/abilities work in WOW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

Fairly sure it'll be DEX based.
Other games use traits to convert a stat to something else. So I am willing to bet there will be a trait to convert DEX attribute to attack power or something along those lines. Similar to how some of the talents/abilities work in WOW.

---

Why do people think DEX will be the main stat? It clearly says the stat is for ranged damage and block/parry chance increase. SE is not going to completely alter how a stat works just so it "makes sense" on a job. If they did do that, I am pretty sure it'd take much longer to create the job and the stat system in the long run would become chaotic.

Very likely that it will use the same gear as MNK. People argue that BRD needs competition on gear sets, but don't forget that MNK have no competition either besides accessories. Putting NIN into the same gear as MNK makes the most sense. Also don't forget that Musketeer is lined up also for release some time in the future, who will likely use DEX as a primary stat and share gear with BRD's.

This isn't FFXI, they are not going to make a job cater to a certain stat for the hell of it. STR for melee damage, DEX for ranged damage, INT for magic damage. Its simple and does not need to be needlessly complex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mysteran

Just a note... Attribute descriptions and what they affect can change class to class. Check out the descriptions of each on different classes and you should see it changing slightly. That means they could change the description for Rogues should they wish.

---

No, it doesn't. I've just now gone over each job and looked over the tool-tip descriptions for all six primary attributes, and in all nine cases, none of the descriptions changed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keres

There's nothing stopping SE from making Rogue/Ninja's melee damage scale with DEX. Lots of other games do it that way without issue: WoW, Dungeons and Dragons, etc.

It'd really only necessitate a change to the tooltip text to indicate that fact. In addition, it'd provide some (needed) balance to the loot competition between STR and DEX drops.

---

FFXIV is not WoW. It's not Dungeons and Dragons, or Pathfinder, or anything else. Just because it has been done in some other areas doesn't mean it must be done here. There's no all-encompassing mandate that any kind of stealthy rogue class MUST use DEX as it's core stat, regardless of everything else like core game mechanics.

DEX is for physical ranged damage. STR is for physical melee damage. The Rogue/NIN is a physical melee damage dealer, and the easiest method for them to be assigned gear, with as little tampering with existing content as possible, is to give them the same gear Pugilist/Monk gets.

With the game's previous history in 1.X of making stat combinations that make little sense and even if some worked like that in XI, like INT as a secondary for Monk (magical fists don't count, I'm sorry) or PIE as a secondary for Dragoon, I can see them going DEX for the hell of it and screw up things, especially now that stats do make sense.

What you guys fail to realize is we have 2 FULL patches before the Ninja/Rogue is even out. They have PLENTY of time to tweak it so DEX will "Increase the amount of damage done by dual wield" or something to that effect. Ninja WILL be a DEX user due to its innate move speed increase and fall damage reduction. Even if it does wind up being a STR user who care? 90% of all the ninjas will be a reroll from a main that's already using the STR stat (MNK/DRG).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nahara

FFXIV is not WoW. It's not Dungeons and Dragons, or Pathfinder, or anything else. Just because it has been done in some other areas doesn't mean it must be done here. There's no all-encompassing mandate that any kind of stealthy rogue class MUST use DEX as it's core stat, regardless of everything else like core game mechanics.

---

I'm not saying it has to, but people here are saying "STR is only melee, DEX is only ranged, I don't know how you'd even make a DEX melee class work!" and it's just not true. It'd be trivial. The fact that other games and systems are able to handle the difference in a straightforward manner is evidence of that.

They wouldn't even have to "tamper with existing content": existing pre-50 ARC/BRD drops would be usable by Rogue/Ninja by default since they're all generally limited just to "Disciple of War," and they'd obviously have their own level-50 armor created specifically for them when they're introduced. The only practical difference it makes in the end is whether they will be competing against STR or DEX classes for jewelry drops.

In the end, though, it doesn't really make a big difference either way. It makes as much sense for them to make Rogue/Ninja DEX-users ("because they're nimble") as it would for them to be STR-users ("because they're melee"). I could easily see it going either way. I'm just trying to explain how this isn't some sort of done-deal "it has to be STR and nothing else because DEX would make zero sense" thing like some people seem to be saying it is.

Things changes, mechanics change. DEX is the logical way to go, since BRD has no competition for gear currently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

Things changes, mechanics change. DEX is the logical way to go, since BRD has no competition for gear currently.

---

Did you not read what myself and many others said above? DEX is not the logical way to go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

Things changes, mechanics change. DEX is the logical way to go, since BRD has no competition for gear currently.

---

Bard will have competition soon with the gunner class...
Monk has no competition either, we only happen to share our accessoires with dragoon now.
I want competition and an option to gear 2 classes at the same time too. :p
It wouldn't make much sense to release 2 dex based classes now when there's still another class without competition, so why give bards 2 classes that will roll on their gear?
Or is the next big thing that the gunner class will be INT/STR based or no let's make it PIE based!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Did you not read what myself and many others said above? DEX is not the logical way to go.

---

I did.
Like I said, things change. You don't want change, okay, fine.
But DEX has been the attribute for melee classes in the past (Such as Dagger/Small weapon wielding classes). It shouldn't come to yall as a surprise.
So they may need to update some of the text in-game. Okay, that's a big deal how now?

Sorry going to Chime in here....

Strength (STR) – Melee Physical Damage. Block & Parry AMOUNT.

Dexterity (DEX) – Ranged Physical damage. Block & Parry CHANCE.

I watched the video and seen the picture and I swear that Rogue/Ninja was using Blades and not a Bow? I mean correct me if I'm wrong. How do we know SE won't add AGI?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

I did.
Like I said, things change. You don't want change, okay, fine.
But DEX has been the attribute for melee classes in the past (Such as Dagger/Small weapon wielding classes). It shouldn't come to yall as a surprise.
So they may need to update some of the text in-game. Okay, that's a big deal how now?

---

One major problem with that, If SE changed the way STR/DEX worked means they would have to rework every piece of gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkista

I watched the video and seen the picture and I swear that Rogue/Ninja was using Blades and not a Bow? I mean correct me if I'm wrong. How do we know SE won't add AGI?

---

That's what i said earlier. I think AGI is indeed possible to get implemented. I don't know how people relate Ninja/Rogue to Dex, maybe because someone said something about 2.28 .dats.. idk. Dex does not make sense, unless they totally change it around for Nin, which would basically harder to do than implementing AGI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkista

One major problem with that, If SE changed the way STR/DEX worked means they would have to rework every piece of gear.

---

A script to update gear that will run for maybe 2 minutes.
Again, that's a big deal how now?
WOW and other games have done this countless of times. And also, as I suggested above, a trait to convert an attribute to another is an option. One that could not only be applied to Rogue but to future classes as well; in order to simplify the process.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

I did.
Like I said, things change. You don't want change, okay, fine.
But DEX has been the attribute for melee classes in the past (Such as Dagger/Small weapon wielding classes). It shouldn't come to yall as a surprise.
So they may need to update some of the text in-game. Okay, that's a big deal how now?

---

Okay, tell me why it needs to change. Why break a simple formula just for the sake of it? It makes no sense at all. Just to remind you also, this is not FFXI nor 1.xx, don't use other MMO's as evidence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

A script to update gear that will run for maybe 2 minutes.
Again, that's a big deal how now?
WOW and other games have done this countless of times. And also, as I suggested above, a trait to convert an attribute to another is an option. One that could not only be applied to Rogue but to future classes as well; in order to simplify the process.

---

Again, why? All you have to do is put NIN in the same gear slot as MNK and have STR as the primary stat. No further work to be done. I am very confident that SE built the stat system in mind of future jobs they have lined up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

That's what i said earlier. I think AGI is indeed possible to get implemented. I don't know how people relate Ninja/Rogue to Dex, maybe because someone said something about 2.28 .dats.. idk. Dex does not make sense, unless they totally change it around for Nin, which would basically harder to do than implementing AGI.

---

AGI would also be acceptable, as it opens room for future classes that may use it. You could even tweak some of the tank attributes to benefit from it, too.
DEX however, isn't as difficult to see work, as some of you make it sound. It's pretty standard that DEX is an accuracy/aim driven stat. And since Ninjas and Rogues specialize in this field (Accuracy, speed, efficiency) this would work just fine, if we follow that logic.
Reworking items, is not difficult at all with the tech we have available. A simple template can update almost every item in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Okay, tell me why it needs to change. Why break a simple formula just for the sake of it? It makes no sense at all. Just to remind you also, this is not FFXI nor 1.xx, don't use other MMO's as evidence.

---

Because you're thinking small.
Think of future classes/jobs. Are you going to align EVERY melee to STR? Because that's just sounds lazy as heck and boring.
It already feels bland as heck. They should mix it up and give classes/jobs a bit more personality as far as attributes go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

And also, as I suggested above, a trait to convert an attribute to another is an option. One that could not only be applied to Rogue but to future classes as well; in order to simplify the process.

---

And it all comes back to that all-important question: WHY?

What is the point of changing the way the stats, as they are now, currently function? What is the point of using a trait to change DEX to boost melee physical damage? Why go through all the extra effort to make DEX a stat usable for a melee physical DPS class when STR already does everything you need it to do and is already on gear that mechanically and thematically matches a lightly-armored melee physical DPS class?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

Because you're thinking small.
Think of future classes/jobs. Are you going to align EVERY melee to STR? Because that's just sounds lazy as heck and boring.
It already feels bland as heck. They should mix it up and give classes/jobs a bit more personality as far as attributes go.

---

You may call it lazy, boring, and bland. Myself and others consider it efficient. There's no need to twist a stat to work in a way that it doesn't when a stat that already does what you need to do exists already.

Is it really more competition when you'll only ever have to roll against 3 other dps ever? Majority of the time those dps are, for the most part, evenly divided between melee and ranged dps anyways. Therefore Ideally,unless you are REALLY unlucky, you only have to compete against one other person... is this really a cause for concern for you o.O?

Hell, if its shared between other STR users and given it's new status among job/classes, alot of players will already have said accessories anyways on their monks/dragoons and therefore don't need to roll on new ones.

You guys are so hopeful of Stat overhauls huh...
Why bother overhauling DEX to be something for the new class when you can just keep it to STR?

If something needs to be overhauled, their first line of defense is the cross-classed skills of other classes, so no one gets the idea of bringing 'class' rather than 'jobs' to end-game. If you can do it for minimal effort on your development team, then do it so you can move on to more important aspects like said class skills.

And also... it's still 2-4 DPS in a party, mathematically that's still the same regardless of the new class. The only thing that changes and will probably hinder the DPS loot is the mainhand... since w/e chance of drop is now spread to Rogue weapons. But I bet the drop is so unnoticeable it'll feel the same anyways, and that loldrg spear will still make you think that drops the most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero

That's what i said earlier. I think AGI is indeed possible to get implemented. I don't know how people relate Ninja/Rogue to Dex, maybe because someone said something about 2.28 .dats.. idk. Dex does not make sense, unless they totally change it around for Nin, which would basically harder to do than implementing AGI.

---

Because it has been associated with Ninja in past Final Fantasy series to be honest its only right to implement a new stat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

Because you're thinking small.
Think of future classes/jobs. Are you going to align EVERY melee to STR? Because that's just sounds lazy as heck and boring.
It already feels bland as heck. They should mix it up and give classes/jobs a bit more personality as far as attributes go.

---

Yes, they should align every melee with STR. They should align every ranged DPS with DEX, and they should align every magic DPS with INT. Its simple and easy to understand and much more organized. Giving them different stats does not give it more personality. Only the abilities and play style alone give it personality, not what it's primary stat is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingAhmoseTheFirst

Because it has been associated with Ninja in past Final Fantasy series to be honest its only right to implement a new stat.

---

Strength has been Ninja's primary stat in almost every FF game they have been in.

i don't see why people want to change the stats and how they work...
why? simply for be aligned on FF11? one thing that sure since the start is... it's nothing is aligned with FF11 since the start. it's another game with it own rules and one of the rule is STR for melee dps, DEX for ranged physical dps, INT for ranged magical DPS.... why change this?

other point, the monk and the ninja are soo close as type of jobs, change the dex for make it working like AGI, ok, but that means the monk too will be based on DEX... it's soo much work for change this...

Str there, Dex here, but 1 stat everyone overlook.
What if NIN is the same what MNK was during 1.0? A STR/INT hybrid

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Giving them different stats does not give it more personality. Only the abilities and play style alone give it personality, not what it's primary stat is.

---

This must be your first MMO, then. Because that statement couldn't be more false.
Granted, we really don't have much of a choice in this game. Once an attribute is labeled the primary stat, people tend to go down that path no matter what other options you give them. It's bland/boring either way.
Unless Squeenix adds my suggestion AND yours and then people have to choose between the item sets they wear.

That would be fun and more interesting.
In fact, I'd like to see that with every class.

Ultimately however, it's not my call and nor yours. We both know who will make that call.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tashigi

This must be your first MMO, then. Because that statement couldn't be more false.
Granted, we really don't have much of a choice in this game. Once an attribute is labeled the primary stat, people tend to go down that path no matter what other options you give them. It's bland/boring either way.
Unless Squeenix adds my suggestion AND yours and then people have to choose between the item sets they wear.

That would be fun and more interesting.
In fact, I'd like to see that with every class.

Ultimately however, it's not my call and nor yours. We both know who will make that call.

---

Been playing MMO's for 15+ years now, and one thing I learned that simplicity of a system is more beneficial than making a needlessly complex system. All I keep seeing is you wanting stats to be like FFXI.

I don't see how there's any "competition" outside of people wanting all the gear for themselves because they only see selfish benefits from gear stats.

Dragon Monk and Ninja aren't gonna be sharing the same weapons.

There's also job exclusive gear.

As for gear I remember when Lancer and Dragoon had access to tank gear. Then there was gear that was simply generalized as "DoW" or "DoM".

All I'm seeing is DPSers feeling threaten that it may take longer for them to get their gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Samburi

Str there, Dex here, but 1 stat everyone overlook.
What if NIN is the same what MNK was during 1.0? A STR/INT hybrid

---

Said that a few pages back. No one cared lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velhart

Been playing MMO's for 15+ years now, and one thing I learned that simplicity of a system is more beneficial than making a needlessly complex system. All I keep seeing is you wanting stats to be like FFXI.

---

FFXI wasn't like that. all melee and ranged damage was str.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gormogon

As for gear I remember when Lancer and Dragoon had access to tank gear. Then there was gear that was simply generalized as "DoW" or "DoM".

---

Only pre-50, sans that cavalry set in brayflox normal. 50+ all gear is exclusive, and any gear that looks the same is just a re-skin. Healers, tanks and casters tend to share gear amongst themselves though.

I can see MNK and NIN sharing gear amongst themselves though... which in this case would actually 'benefit' the loot competition... because MNKs would have already geared up their NIN.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nayto

Only pre-50, sans that cavalry set in brayflox normal. 50+ all gear is exclusive, and any gear that looks the same is just a re-skin. Healers, tanks and casters tend to share gear amongst themselves though.

I can see MNK and NIN sharing gear amongst themselves though... which in this case would actually 'benefit' the loot competition... because MNKs would have already geared up their NIN.

---

Totally agree with that last statement.