In Game DPS Meter

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Originally Posted by Xakery

I don't care the damage I do. My only concern is keeping eye on enemy attacks to either: dodge, stun, or silence. As long as we win, there should be no arguments, right?

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Correct! :D

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Looking at your achievements I can see you haven't done the second coil so it's clear to me that you don't understand the context I'm trying to solve this from. You must be doing the first coil still with the echo buff which makes it quite easy with all the new i100 gear. You will not run into the problem I'm trying to help solve because you aren't on the hardest content.

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I am in fact starting T6 with my group as I've only just recently got into a group not too long ago. Perhaps my comments aren't really appropriate for this topic, but my intentions weren't to debate anything.

I apologize for my original message being off topic as you say, but I hope you understand.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

A lot of of us would like some kind of personal DPS meter because we are good, and we want to be great.

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I understand this, I realize now how off topic my original response was, I will delete it. Thank you for your response.

I found it funny, square enix it's against the tools for parse, but they add the dummies so people practice rotations and check the dps, but how do we really know the dps we do if we can't ever see the results.
Can't add a feature to see how much damage are you doing compared to your gear on that dummies?

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Originally Posted by Rabntah

I found it funny, square enix it's against the tools for parse, but they add the dummies so people practice rotations and check the dps, but how do we really know the dps we do if we can't ever see the results.
Can't add a feature to see how much damage are you doing compared to your gear on that dummies?

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If every boss fight was tank n spank you would have an argument.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

If every boss fight was tank n spank you would have an argument.

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We do have an arguement. You just want to limit the options people have to learn how to play the game better. The only way that seems to be ok for you is to force them into end game and to let them fail over and over until somehow they figure it out. There are zero merits to providing no other methods to help people practice the techniques required for late game content. You're just forcing people to do it one way. The way you want.

Tiggy it's useless to argue with Gormogon. He obviously just wants the game to be so easy my pet cat can sleep on the keyboard to victory. I guess that he doesn't realize that you can master mechanics of a fight and never take unnecessary damage yet still fail because of tight dps checks. So really that leaves SE with three options.

1. Create their own self parsing feature for the game.
2. Remove all dps checks from the game.
3. Do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

If every boss fight was tank n spank you would have an argument.

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You're hellbent on opposing the notion of any form of a DPS parser, we get it.
He has an argument. Once DPS is calculated, you can simply substract based on how long you stay away from the target, due to dodging red zones, or whatever other silly mechanics the boss may throw at you.
This is commonly calculated by the average DPS meters found in other games and the existing ones for this game, as well.

And before you you jump in and start nonsense about how dodging is more important than your damage dealt: Enrage mechanics.
Sometimes it's better to eat damage to max your entire group's output.
Again, another common sense tactic.

Adding a parser would be dumb from SE's standpoint.

1. parsers are already available, so why would they do extra work?
2. parsers are used by people who care about their dps, not baddies
3. if you add the parser, you will just add a way for people to discriminate against others, when it isn't necessary because the good players already have parsers.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Adding a parser would be dumb from SE's standpoint.

1. parsers are already available, so why would they do extra work?
2. parsers are used by people who care about their dps, not baddies
3. if you add the parser, you will just add a way for people to discriminate against others, when it isn't necessary because the good players already have parsers.

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Please pay closer attention to the thread please. We are not asking for an in game parser.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Adding a parser would be dumb from SE's standpoint.

1. parsers are already available, so why would they do extra work?
2. parsers are used by people who care about their dps, not baddies
3. if you add the parser, you will just add a way for people to discriminate against others, when it isn't necessary because the good players already have parsers.

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Because people on PS4 can not use these parsers.

If Yoshi's stance is "It's against the ToS, but if you don't tell anyone you use it then you're fine!!".... well I'm sorry that's just ridiculous. I (and the few others in this thread who care to read the entirety of posts instead of picking through a few words and take them completely out of context) already realize he said No. We get that. That doesn't mean we can't try and come up with viable alternatives. For lack of a better excuse, it's just downright unfair that they cast a blind eye on PC users who use these add-ons when they tout that the game is multi-platform but both platforms don't get the same goodies.

I don't agree with your point #3. I don't need to prove my personal level of skill in this game to you, nor would you probably believe it. I am plenty good at this game, so not all "good players" have parsers. I would like to know how much DPS I parse so I can try and improve, because right now all I see is flying text that means literally nothing to me outside of "OOOOOOOH that was a nice crit"

The discrimination bit is getting very played. Who would have imagined that on the internet, breeding ground of perpetual sarcasm/flame/trolling, that people would get so bent out of shape over a little criticism.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

To implement any sort of Meter/Rating system/ect all the other dumb ideas you have had since starting this thread, it would be numbers based on an internal parser.
Which means all of your ideas are constricted to the limits of said parser.

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I'll quote myself since you only quoted the first part of my comment, in which I made fun of you for being a d**che.

This point still stands, all of your ideas about in game anything, will be based off of internal parsing data.
So all of the cons that come with that, apply to all of your ideas.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Because people on PS4 can not use these parsers.

I don't agree with your point #3. I don't need to prove my personal level of skill in this game to you, nor would you probably believe it. I am plenty good at this game, so not all "good players" have parsers. I would like to know how much DPS I parse so I can try and improve, because right now all I see is flying text that means literally nothing to me outside of "OOOOOOOH that was a nice crit"
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PS4 users have a legitimate gripe, but point #3 still applies its not that you need to prove yourself, and obviously you can get better using your own data.

It's that people would use it to not take someone based on a number that is very subjective.

and the "good players already have parsers", im not saying all good players have parsers, but good players have them, and good players want them, ie yourself.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

I'll quote myself since you only quoted the first part of my comment, in which I made fun of you for being a douche.

This point still stands, all of your ideas about in game anything, will be based off of internal parsing data.
So all of the cons that come with that, apply to all of your ideas.

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Obviously there would need to be some sort of server side parsing to do calculations if we did the test dummy idea, but that doesn't mean it is exposed to the users at all. It can be entirely server side with only the DPS number itself being paassed to the client. Meaning it can't be abused like you say because the data simply wouldn't be client side to do so. Just because a specific technology is required at it's core does not immediately make the specific use case and specific implantation automatically bad. They are not one in the same as the implementation wraps a UI and useful functionality around a few core algorithms. So simply put no, all of the cons that come with parsers do not come with our ideas that we are discussing.

Also, if you would read the thread as I keep saying, you would see that we've evolved into a discussion about solo guildhest like content where simply being able to pass the content could be considered the feedback we are looking for. This wouldn't require any parser what so ever. Negating every con that comes with parsing.

So please. If you aren't going to read the thread and give constructive ideas on the actual conversation I would say, once again, that we get it. You don't like it. You constantly telling us that over and over doesn't achieve anything other than to distract from a constructive conversation.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

It's that people would use it to not take someone based on a number that is very subjective.

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Not if the result is entirely personal and kept to the individual player, as we've been discussing all along. If it is not displayed publicly then no one can possibly use it to judge you. We addressed this idea a few pages back.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

Not if the result is entirely personal and kept to the individual player, as we've been discussing all along. If it is not displayed publicly then no one can possibly use it to judge you. We addressed this idea a few pages back.

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"Disclose self parser or kick. We have a party parser to expose liars." You'll see something along these lines all over party finder. There's no way around the cons of parsers unless it can't be used in instances.

You don't understand, even if you have a "hidden" server side parser. Then you completely undermine the legitimacy of that data.

It then becomes pointless. If you don't open it up to the community, it's better to just not have one.


And opening a DPS meter thats individualized would not work either. Because without context it means nothing.


I understand your thread is very lengthy, and many of these points have been addressed. But your ideas are just not very good.
And you keep saying that we are negative and not constructive, but sometimes the answer is just that you are just wrong.

There is a reason, many reasons actually why none of this has been implemented as you have suggested. Because they are bad ideas, without easy and efficient implementations.
The reason you are getting "non constructive" criticism is because you can't take criticism.

I think you should have entitled this thread "my ideal scenario, and fun ideas for dps meters that won't ever actually happen #donttellmetheywontwork"

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Originally Posted by Ikeda

"Disclose self parser or kick. We have a party parser to expose liars." You'll see something along these lines all over party finder. There's no way around the cons of parsers unless it can't be used in instances.

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We aren't suggesting it even have a parser nor to to have one in instances at all. We are currently bouncing around a solo-guildhest type idea that is displayed over the last few pages of this thread.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

You don't understand, even if you have a "hidden" server side parser. Then you completely undermine the legitimacy of that data.

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Despite the fact we aren't trying to add a parser I can't agree with this. If it did have a parser then it would only make the results more legitimate.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

It then becomes pointless. If you don't open it up to the community, it's better to just not have one.

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Like how Yoshi-P said we shouldn't use parsers but they can't stop it so we should be reasonable? That isn't open to PS3 and PS4 users and that certainly didn't fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

And opening a DPS meter thats individualized would not work either. Because without context it means nothing.

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The entire point is to understand where the ceiling on your ability is in order to improve it. That still has value for practicing. Once practiced the skills are then directly useful in real content. That's why this was considered to be a tool from the beginning. It is most definitely relevant.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

I understand your thread is very lengthy, and many of these points have been addressed. But your ideas are just not very good.
And you keep saying that we are negative and not constructive, but sometimes the answer is just that you are just wrong.

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Simply saying no, or that won't work is not constructive. Just saying that someone is wrong is not constructive. A reasonable explination of WHY it is wrong is constructive, but simple responses like you just used are not.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

There is a reason, many reasons actually why none of this has been implemented as you have suggested. Because they are bad ideas, without easy and efficient implementations.

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False. There are indeed reasonable implenations, but you aren't interested in exploring any of them. You just want to come in and say "no it won't work you're just wrong."

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Originally Posted by MythToken

The reason you are getting "non constructive" criticism is because you can't take criticism.

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I have taken it quite well in numerous instances throughout this thread. What I will not take well is people like you who want to come in and just s**t on everyone elses parade because "bad people will do bad things." You aren't encouraging discussion. You aren't looking at the actual ideas presented and expressing any specific comments. You're just being negative.

WE GET IT. You don't like the idea.

If you don't have actual constructive things to add to the ideas being bounced around in order to come up with a good implementation then can you please just accept that we get it and let us move on? If we have this discussion it doesn't hurt you, doesn't stop your day from being happy, and doesn't even matter if square doesn't like what we say. You coming here to say the same thing over and over and over isn't adding anything to our conversation other than negativity. If Square ever reads this thread your disagreement will surely be noted. The number of times you reiterate does not ram it home more.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

We aren't suggesting it even have a parser nor to to have one in instances at all. We are currently bouncing around a solo-guildhest type idea that is displayed over the last few pages of this thread.

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What is the actual point of this?

higher ilvl gear = more dps
more stats = more dps

None of that is rocket science and you don't need a parser for it either.

Optimal rotations have already been discovered by people who can do math + potency.

There is nothing hidden in this game, that you are going to discover through some magical meter or rating system.

If you are talking about adding a dps meter for Low lvl guild heists, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

What is the actual point of this?

higher ilvl gear = more dps
more stats = more dps

None of that is rocket science and you don't need a parser for it either.

Optimal rotations have already been discovered by people who can do math + potency.

There is nothing hidden in this game, that you are going to discover through some magical meter or rating system.

If you are talking about adding a dps meter for Low lvl guild heists, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

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You entirely miss the point. We aren't asking for this to be used to determine optimal rotations or for players already entrenched into end game. The entire point was to have content that helps new players break into end game. These are players who aren't already good at their rotations, players who are afraid they don't have what it takes and therefore won't even try the new coil until it's nerfed with echo over 3 months from now, and for the players on playstation consoles who have zero access to an ILLEGAL parser. What are suggesting is high level solo guild-hest type content. Not even low level because yes, that wouldn't help anyone.

You continue to show your disdain for even reading about what we are talking about. Everything I just said has been said by others earlier in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

SNIP

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all of that is way out of context, sorry but, I am giving you reasons why it doesnt work, you just arnt listening.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

You entirely miss the point. We aren't asking for this to be used to determine optimal rotations or for players already entrenched into end game. The entire point was to have content that helps new players break into end game.

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you are missing the point sorry, but you don't need a parser to get better.

Increase ilvl to increase dps
Increase stats to increase dps
Read up on your rotations which can easily be found on this very forum.

Check check and check.

Sorry that you think you need someone to hold your hand going into endgame.

Also how would you rate tanking? How would you rate healing? Don't those people need help getting into endgame?

Also just because you can pull good numbers in a Parse, does not mean you are ready for end game.
Which has very little to do with dps numbers, and a lot to do with mechanics and dodging.

Not to mention the game already has Guildheists and Low level dungeons which are very well designed in their difficulty scaling.
They do a great job at progressing you through your job, all the way through end game.

You already get a bonus for completing the Guildhiest without anyone dying.

On top of that to "break into endgame" as you call it, you have to run with a group. So saying I have a rating of 100! means nothing. Find a group of people that actually like you, and are willing to teach you. (probably hard for the OP)

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Originally Posted by MythToken

all of that is way out of context, sorry but, I am giving you reasons why it doesnt work, you just arnt listening.

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Then I simply disagree with your oversimplification of the problem especially considering how clear it is you aren't reading anything on the idea at all. It's clear that everything you know about the idea comes from the last few posts where I reiterated what we were talking about. You're "No" is out of context because you refuse to understand our context at all. Your mind is closed to the ideas of others.

At this point you're just trolling this thread and our ideas. I will no longer feed the troll.

I would suggest you actually read my above post, which handles all of your "points". I am not trolling.

I have clearly addressed all your concerns.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

True you do frequently already know when the damage is low, but that's precisely why I want a feature like this. Not as a means to diagnose myself with a DPS problem, but as a means of improving those numbers using feedback from the game instead of outside third party apps.



I'm not opposed to some sort of result screen, but like others suggested putting the actual DPS result in probably is a bad idea.
Something as simple as this could work.
D - You beat it, but barely.
C - You beat it with some wiggle room.
B - Above average.
A - Well Done!
S - Holy crap that's some Deeps! (or whatever mode you're in)

So for tanking it could be based on how much you mitigated.

Thoughts?

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These are bad ideas

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Originally Posted by MythToken

These are bad ideas

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Then suggest improvements. You know. Being constructive with your criticism.

Just saying "These are bad ideas" is not constructive. This is what I was trying to explain. You're currently just commenting on the ideas. "The purpose of constructive criticism is to improve the outcome. In collaborative work, this kind of criticism is a valuable tool in raising and maintaining performance standards." would be how Wikipedia describes it. Collaborative, to improve the outcome. Not flat out denial.

I'm not going to say no to the idea of an in-game parser (even though I don't agree with it) but I think if they did this, they should only show your DPS output percent in relation to the whole while hiding the rest of your parties dmg output, because when I have seen people parse in the past it just ends up in some person(s) belittling others becuz they have "slightly bigger numbers" or something. Which is already unfair to some classes that have a harder time in certain fights. For example, mages in Titan who constantly have to break casts to dodge while Bards can dodge and still fight. Just my opinion though.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

This right here. Everything Elvie said is why I want this kind of tool....

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You want feedback, but how can you improve if you don't know what that feedback actually is? like a rating system would tell you nothing other than "try harder
A parser, tells you exactly what is going on, and from analyzing that what you should be doing vs what you are doing.

You want to "play the way you want to play" and you are allowed to do that, but it will not be optimal.

There is only 1 optimal way to play your class, and it has been discussed in length on these forums. Yes it is ever changing.

But the reality is your argument comes down to, you don't do a lot of dps because you are "playing the way you want to play" and you want some sort of system that will validate "your way of playing"

It doesn't exist. The best way you could become a better player, is to start listening to people who are better than you/copying them.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

I'm not going to say no to the idea of an in-game parser (even though I don't agree with it) but I think if they did this, they should only show your DPS output percent in relation to the whole while hiding the rest of your parties dmg output, because when I have seen people parse in the past it just ends up in some person(s) belittling others becuz they have "slightly bigger numbers" or something. Which is already unfair to some classes that have a harder time in certain fights. For example, mages in Titan who constantly have to break casts to dodge while Bards can dodge and still fight. Just my opinion though.

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Yes correct, every single fight is different for every single class, as well as taking into account crit variation and job responsibility variation.

Just as a small disclaimer, I'm not completely going against you as it first may seem, please understand this when reading.

While I understand the point of being able to see your own performance, I don't see the need for it added into the game. A community manager responded before on the percentage and mentioned how they would be looking in to giving DPS players personal DPS checks to ensure they're doing their job properly at lower levels, however, unless this scales up to end game, it's rather pointless.

I would only expect this feature if added would be used on the training dummies, which makes it utterly useless other than to ensure you're doing your rotation properly, which to me is a no brainer. It's just another number on top of your actual damage output that shows up that really has no context inside an instance where a number of things will affect your performance.

If this feature does not extend to the actual battle contents themselves, then I see no real purpose for it that an actual parser wouldn't solve that would come with add-on support in the future.

As for the self challenges, I think those should be added in the game, but the DPS values wouldn't need to be visible. These challenges exist already in the class quests, however, it's clear that new players can breeze through these without worrying about real challenge. If you look at new tanks that don't even know what agro is or their purpose, you'll see what I mean. Back in beta it felt like to me that the story quests were a lot more difficult to kill the single boss like enemies, but maybe it's because I was new to the game.

So, I agree with the idea of giving the player a set of challenges, now that Halatali has become an battle arena again, I feel like it would be an appropriate place for an challenge course like you suggested. Having tiered challenges that allow you to test your skill with perhaps a small reward would be a nice addition to the game, rewarding players ranking for overall skill level.

DPS would be gauged on how fast they can kill enemies while factoring in what type of DPS they are.
Healers would be gauged on healing with mitigation and over-healing greatly affecting your score.
Tanks would be gauged on their damage mitigation cool down usage, avoiding telegraphed/non-telegraphed AOEs, and holding groups of enemies.

I know that you already mentioned this in your original post, and I'm sure others have as well, but I felt the need to contribute in some way after my post earlier was very much off topic.

So, while I don't think that Square Enix needs to add a personal DPS meter of any kind, I feel like adding challenges for the various job types with possible rewards based on your skill level and to promote self improvement would be a great feature. Your performance could be made personal or public to allow for competitive fun between players that enjoy it, or kept a secret from those who just want to see if they're pulling their weight.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

But the reality is your argument comes down to, you don't do a lot of dps because you are "playing the way you want to play" and you want some sort of system that will validate "your way of playing"

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I'm sorry but I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. My performance is more than adequate for my needs and isn't why I brought this up. I brought this idea up due to how many people I run into that are too terrified to even attempt end game. People who are too afraid they don't have what it takes. People who till this day are still telling me they haven't tried even Turn 1 for the first time. It is not about just knowing or discovering an optimal rotation. The idea would obviously be that people probably look it up, but need somewhere to practice without bringing down an entire group because they are afraid to do that. You keep trying to personify this as something I need when I intend the entire idea for others. This isn't about me, or you. It's about all those new players. Despite the fact I've repeated my goal throughout this thread, people like you, continue to try and make this something about me. Which couldn't be further from the truth.

I ask you. Is it really so impossible for me to actually care about other players and not just myself? Is it possible you're viewing me through a lense that sees me as nothing more than elitist or perhaps a poor player? You aren't trying to empathize with my argument in the slightest. You only want to point out how bad of a person I am and how bad of an idea this is.

Is it possible you're just pushing your perceptions of "elitists" onto me?

I just want to help people.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

...how can you improve...?

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if the boss dies, the raid is playing fine - if the raid wipes, then try what other raids who have killed the boss have done - no need for a meter as long as there are raids killing bosses.

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Originally Posted by Tiggy

I brought this idea up due to how many people I run into that are too terrified to even attempt end game. People who are too afraid they don't have what it takes. People who till this day are still telling me they haven't tried even Turn 1 for the first time.

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This is an entirely different matter, and any sort of in game anything will not help these people.

Not a dps, rating, challenge system.

If you never try, you will never succeed.

DPS isnt even the #1 performance stat that matters in T1 or beyond. Survival is, and that is easily monitored by death.

P.S. someone who is "terrified" to do something in a game, has serious mental issues, that is pathetic

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Originally Posted by LeonBlade

Snip

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The kind of content you described is exactly the kind I would love. Just by simply completing it you've hit the goal and by practicing it you can try to improve. The ideas for ranking or time trials were just one method brought up gauge yourself, but in my eyes something like this where you just need to be able to pull it off would be great. We could have numerous scenarios that test a player in numerous common situations. As an example DPS could have one trial that has a ton of movement in order to practice abilities while dodging. This would be a great boon to a BLM practicing. Being unable to complete the challenge would be enough knowledge to know that you still need to practice. Maybe you know your rotations but in the trial you just failed you can recognize one weakness in your play that you can deliberately work on. Perhaps there is a certain mechanic where you mess up your rotation and by doing the trial over and over you can iron out your imperfection. I think this could really help player assess themselves. If it could reduce the fear of entering the coil then I'd count it as a big win.

So let me get this straight, you want to add specific content for ONLY:

lvl 50 players who have beaten all the hard mode dungeons, and gotten mostly Dark light gear/myth gear, who are still "terrified" to try T1, and need some sort of validation that they can do it

So like 5 people


P.S. this sounds like solo content in an MMO

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Originally Posted by MythToken

So let me get this straight, you want to add specific content for ONLY:

lvl 50 players who have beaten all the hard mode dungeons, and gotten mostly Dark light gear, who are still "terrified" to try T1, and need some sort of validation that they can do it

So like 5 people

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Hyperbole aside, yes those people. They are the majority of the player base. It is a minority of the player base that even tries coil, and an even more extreme minority that make it to the later turns, and a ridiculous minority who ever even complete the final turn. Once a week I teach a player who has been in the game for months but still hasn't even attempted T5. T5, even with 15% they are just now trying it for the very first time.

Ideally I'd love to see this content start off in the 40's with a bulk of the content at 50.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

P.S. this sounds like solo content in an MMO

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I'd be all for some sort of group way to do this. Honestly if they wanted to do that they could extend the existing guild hest system to actually extend to multiple lv 50 hests and it could also help. I went with solo content to specifically address issues that would inevitably be brought up about people using it to compare themselves to one another. If that could be addressed in a reasonable way then I'd have no problem doing this in some group manner.

Honestly though. You can't complain much about more solo content in an MMO with a ton of solo content. It would really fit right in around here.

I don't understand why people want DPS meters, so I don't understand even the need for middle ground.

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Originally Posted by Diavolo

I don't understand why people want DPS meters, so I don't understand even the need for middle ground.

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It's a quantitative measure of performance which allows you to set yourself goals and improve on said goals. Many people are also competitive and wish to be better than other people, and there is nothing wrong with that. I am a hyper-competitive individual and seek to constantly improve myself to be the best tank possible, the best healer possible, the best dps possible, etc. Comparison of myself with other players and with my own performance, as well as analysing said performance, is a large part of any game to me.

EDIT: And yes, Tiggy is right. I speak to a lot of casual friends who say they're too intimidated to try T1 and don't want to drag their parties down, but have no way of knowing whether they are ready. Often I'll run it with them and make it as stress-free as possible, but it would be nice to have some assurance.

If people really want to challenge themselves. PvP is the best place to start working on your situational awareness and your reaction/reflex to inconsistencies. You may not always win but you got something to work on.

DPS meters aren't needed.

You have to put in the work and effort to be good. Watching numbers wont magically turn you into a disciplined player.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

If people really want to challenge themselves. PvP is the best place to start working on your situational awareness and your reaction/reflex to inconsistencies. You may not always win but you got something to work on.

DPS meters aren't needed.

You have to put in the work and effort to be good. Watching numbers wont magically turn you into a disciplined player.

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DPSing in PvP is exceptionally different than PvE.
Tanking in PvP is non existant.

The only one with any realistic cross-over is healing. Even then you're trying to put people to sleep party of the time. Something you never have to do in PvE. These two games modes are so different that one is not training for the other at all. Especially once you factor in PvP specific skills.

We aren't necessarily asking for meters and the current idea bouncing around doesn't include them at all.

I'm starting to really hate that I didn't think through the title of this thread more carefully. It's bringing in all kinds of misconceptions about the goal.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

If people really want to challenge themselves. PvP is the best place to start working on your situational awareness and your reaction/reflex to inconsistencies. You may not always win but you got something to work on.

DPS meters aren't needed.

You have to put in the work and effort to be good. Watching numbers wont magically turn you into a disciplined player.

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How do you know you're doing everything right with no effective feedback?

A while back, I was doing a Levi run as tank. We had 2 BLMs, 1 SMN, and a BRD. Despite this awesome setup and great gear, our DPS was pathetically low. We had Wavetooth's hysteria pools on the deck!

Someone runs a parser. Turns out one of the BLMs was pushing out a pathetically low 76 DPS. He apologizes but the run doesn't improve. A votekick comes up, we boot the BLM, get a competent MNK, and go on to win the match.

DPS meters are great. I know some people don't like elitist pricks but low DPS WIPES THE PARTY. Other members can pick up the slack only so far. At the end of the day, people are there to get loot and no one wants to waste time constantly wiping over and over again because some BLM insists on spamming thunder.

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Blame Yoshida for designing instances with extreme DPS checks. You almost never saw this in XI.