Constantly kicked for watching cutscenes

And just think, these are real people living in the real world who can't see past their own desires... but don't think about it too hard or you will despair.

If someone kicks you for watching a cut scene they are showing you how they feel about themselves. That the don't care about other players and aren't considerate of others.

I'm kind of a 'go with the flow' type of person. I always give myself more than enough time to run a DF if I need to (Usually doing my dailies in the late hours of the night to avoid husband-aggro, lol).

My first time through, I skipped everything because I'm not a big cutscene person, but I've never told anyone to skip if they wanted to watch. I was more worried about screwing up then watching scenes. (I took the downtime to read a guide I had up, lol).

Over all the MMO's I've played, having to wait for a CS or someone has never bothered me ... I can turn on Netflix/Youtube and watch something while I wait.

I was with a friend of mine, who was a healer. He got booted on his first time because he was watching the cut scenes. The only solution I can think of is to have the end of the main story cutscenes unskipable. If they were skipable if everyone in the party had previously completed it, then first timers would get booted by the majority who are just there to speed run.

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Originally Posted by Bahd_Monkey

I was with a friend of mine, who was a healer. He got booted on his first time because he was watching the cut scenes. The only solution I can think of is to have the end of the main story cutscenes unskipable. If they were skipable if everyone in the party had previously completed it, then first timers would get booted by the majority who are just there to speed run.

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Solution is to play with friends who won't skip, start a Party Finder request where it is clear that cutscenes will not be skipped, or skip cutscenes and watch later in the inn.

Forcing cutscenes to be watched every playthrough is not a reasonable solution. Not by a longshot, when those cutscenes can be quite long, and an absolute chore to rewatch.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

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Or the vets should run Party Finder or run with their group in order to speed run and farm tomes. It's somewhat unrealistic to request that newbies go out of their way to complete required story content or be required rush through dungeons without knowledge of the mechanics or anything else because they chose to use Duty Finder (something they have been implicitly told to use all game.)

Vets shouldn't have a hard time putting in requests on PF for Castrum and Prae speed runs in order to farm tomes. Don't force new players to pull themselves out of the immersion of the game in order to fit your requirements for a run.

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

Or the vets should run Party Finder or run with their group in order to speed run and farm tomes. It's somewhat unrealistic to request that newbies go out of their way to complete required story content or be required rush through dungeons without knowledge of the mechanics or anything else because they chose to use Duty Finder (something they have been implicitly told to use all game.)

Vets shouldn't have a hard time putting in requests on PF for Castrum and Prae speed runs in order to farm tomes. Don't force new players to pull themselves out of the immersion of the game in order to fit your requirements for a run.

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I won't disagree with you here. It does indeed make more sense for vets (in this case anybody who watched the cutscenes) to use the PF for skipping them.

However, if I am to be realistic as you suggest this will never happen. Everybody only ever needs to watch the cutscenes once. After that, if they ever run it is expected that they will skip. As this suggests, there are far more people who have watched the cutscenes playing than those who have not. Therefore, people who want to watch cutscenes become a niche - a minority. Quite a small minority, in fact.

Therefore, on the grand scheme of things the deisre to not skip cutscenes is a minor one and people with such a standard can quite readily use PF to band together.

The ultimate point is: good luck getting the majority of the playerbase to not run speedruns on Duty Finder.

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

Vets shouldn't have a hard time putting in requests on PF for Castrum and Prae speed runs in order to farm tomes. Don't force new players to pull themselves out of the immersion of the game in order to fit your requirements for a run.

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Vets wouldn't run Castrum or Praetorium if it wasn't for 300 tomes and a few gils in 30 mins or less. End of the story.
-Wahh wahh I cannot find a group to finish my story !!! Please SE, do something to force vets to help ME.
Ok, 300 tomes for running them.
-Wahh wahh the big guys force me to skip cut-scenes ! they should play how I ECIDE and not how they decide !!! MY VISION is superior !!!!!

I don't kick people, but I usualy start the fight even if they aren't there. Same story for the AFK in CT. I'm selfish ? Of course I am, but I assume it, not like you who find "normal" to see 7/23 people waiting for you and only you.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

Vets wouldn't run Castrum or Praetorium if it wasn't for 300 tomes and a few gils in 30 mins or less. End of the story.
-Wahh wahh I cannot find a group to finish my story !!! Please SE, do something to force vets to help ME.
Ok, 300 tomes for running them.
-Wahh wahh the big guys force me to skip cut-scenes ! they should play how I ECIDE and not how they decide !!! MY VISION is superior !!!!!

I don't kick people, but I usualy start the fight even if they aren't there. Same story for the AFK in CT. I'm selfish ? Of course I am, but I assume it, not like you who find "normal" to see 7/23 people waiting for you and only you.

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They're not playing how they decide, they're playing the game the way it was designed.

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Originally Posted by doctor_jimbob

They're not playing how they decide, they're playing the game the way it was designed.

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Not trying to stir up any trouble, but if it was designed to not be skipped, why is there an option to skip + why are those scenes watchable afterwards?

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Originally Posted by doctor_jimbob

They're not playing how they decide, they're playing the game the way it was designed.

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...and people who skip aren't?

Those instances weren't designed to be played once, clearly.

Bad argument is bad. Didn't think that one through.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

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I know the playerbase isn't going to change, but saying "We're going to continue to do this practice even though it makes us look bad" isn't really helpful either.

Honestly, the community in FFXIV 1.0 was generally pretty great. There was a large portion of the player base that opted to go out of their way to help new players acclimate and feel comfortable as they progressed through the game, and yeah - there were jerks (there always are) but the majority of the interactions I saw were on the positive end. But suddenly with ARR, there's this influx into the playerbase of people just acting like huge dicks running around shouting down all the new players, sneering the word "casuals" at them like they're some sort of paragon of MMO gaming, and constantly coming onto the forums to complain about the game just handing out gear. And then people get surprised when the new players feel left out and complain about how much they hate the playerbase for being unwelcoming?

At what point should the vets actually take a stand against this sort of behavior? Look, I know it won't stop, and thinking there's a way to change it is foolish, but seriously. Seeing Legacy players who stand by and let it occur, or even participate in it is frustrating and disappointing. And yeah, I know that there are newbies out there who are going to scream at the top of their lungs about people being mean to them when they're simply being offered constructive advice. I know there's going to be new players who refuse to learn how to play their classes properly. I get all of that, trust me, I do. I'm a vet from both FFXI and XIV 1.0, I get it.

And yeah, Square Enix is partially at fault here because they should have foreseen this, but then again - they focus on the Japanese playerbase, and probably didn't figure that it'd be a problem. (Same with the griefing issues with Ready Check, Vote Kick, and Vote Abandon.)

Yeah, they offered up 300 tomes as a reward because the old dungeons were barren and it was hard to find other new players to join you. But they did it because they expected the vets to assist the new players. Waiting a total of ten extra minutes in a dungeon because someone chose to watch the cutscenes isn't that much extra time out of your day. Go have a smoke, get a drink, stand up and stretch. But then people say "Well, Vets want to run it fast! Our time is important to us!". Okay, that's fine - but running it fast doesn't help the new players. They get railed on for not being "good enough" at the mechanics of the game constantly, but then you expect them to be able to speed run two level 50 dungeons (meant to prepare you for the endgame content) as FRESH 50s and then get surprised when they're terrible at doing most endgame content? Kinda hard to learn how to play when you have people pressuring you to speed run.

Also, everyone's time is important to them. If you are in a rush to get a dungeon done, perhaps don't queue up for Castrum or Prae without a preformed party. You might end up with four out of eight individuals who haven't run it before, totally have no idea what they're doing and getting pushed through Castrum in a speed run, effectively "crash the car" and wipe the party out.

I'm just saying that the veteran players should consider these things. You guys are invested in the game, the new players aren't as much. It can force them out of something they've enjoyed and that's not good for anyone, honestly.

If it "keeps" happening then stop doing it. Yes you pay 15 bucks like everyone else to play the game BUT you can watch all CSs in your home and yes I am sorry that you are getting kicked and you should report them. BUT if it keeps happening, no matter how much you tell people you are also playing and paying for the game it wont matter. I always ask if anyone wants to watch CSs when I am MT and I just wait. (I study or play my 3DS while waiting) But I know most people don't (Even in the JP community). Fact is you can not change people and the mass of people doesn't like waiting so suck it up and skip it and watch it at home or get kicked more but don't complain that you keep getting kicked when you know very well it is totally up to you to change cause there is no way you will change others.

I don't condone kicking. However, it is entirely expected that other party members will not wait for that person to finish cutscenes, and will progress in the instance.

A big contributor to the PF being released was this very issue. As such, there is an explicit option for casual, cutscenes included play when advertising a party on it. There really isn't much else to be said about this.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Not trying to stir up any trouble, but if it was designed to not be skipped, why is there an option to skip + why are those scenes watchable afterwards?

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Fair point on the watching afterwards. Wouldn't a voting option be the best solution? Most people want to skip? Watchers can suck it up or quit. Same goes if most people want to watch.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

...and people who skip aren't?

Those instances weren't designed to be played once, clearly.

Bad argument is bad. Didn't think that one through.

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They weren't designed to be skipped every time either, otherwise there wouldn't be an option to watch.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Not trying to stir up any trouble, but if it was designed to not be skipped, why is there an option to skip + why are those scenes watchable afterwards?

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It was designed to be watched, not designed to "not be skipped". Also you answered your own question, the "option" to skip, you have to willingly opt out. It's not the default.

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Originally Posted by ispano

It was designed to be watched, not designed to "not be skipped". Also you answered your own question, the "option" to skip, you have to willingly opt out. It's not the default.

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I'm just saying, it wasn't designed for either. It gives everyone the choice to watch or skip it. If they wanted to design it to be watched, they could always make them unskippable if it was their first time seeing it. That would cause problems and frustrations of their own (playing on another character but seen the cutscene before on a different character). If there's one thing I'm sure of after playing many games with unskippable stuff such as unskippable cutscenes, it sucks if it has to be replayed.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

I'm just saying, it wasn't designed for either. It gives everyone the choice to watch or skip it. If they wanted to design it to be watched, they could always make them unskippable if it was their first time seeing it. That would cause problems and frustrations of their own (playing on another character but seen the cutscene before on a different character). If there's one thing I'm sure of after playing many games with unskippable stuff such as unskippable cutscenes, it sucks if it has to be replayed.

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And you still aren't getting what I meant. Intended to be watched doesn't mean you HAVE to watch it, hence why you are given the option of skipping if you so choose. However, they are still intended to be watched, otherwise there would be no point to having them in the first place. So yes, they were designed to be watched. Saying it wasn't is like saying you made a movie that was designed to never be watched.

As Tank in Roulette Story Run´s .. i mostly am able to dictate the Speed of the run, and to be honest, i always encourage first timers to watch their Cutscenes and enjoy the story...

My Group gave me time and in my opinion, everybody should get this chance...

The Group may progress, i wait for the first timer and come later ^^

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Originally Posted by ispano

And you still aren't getting what I meant. Intended to be watched doesn't mean you HAVE to watch it, hence why you are given the option of skipping if you so choose. However, they are still intended to be watched, otherwise there would be no point to having them in the first place. So yes, they were designed to be watched. Saying it wasn't is like saying you made a movie that was designed to never be watched.

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Worst logic ever. Let's continue the logic : I can attack the mobs/bosses when someone is still in a cutscene, the game was designed that way ! Being able to wait/attack doesn't mean you HAVE to wait/attack !
And please, "rushing isn't helping newbies". Fights in Castrum and Praetorium = kill the adds, than burn the boss.

To the people who kick the people watching...if it's one guy, go further without him. He's a tank? Have the other solo it (it's not hard). If he's a healer? Have the other solo heal, again, it's not hard. He a DPS? You have 3 others, you can go on without him. Don't kick the guy just because he's watching a cutscene, let him. The instance is easy enough with just 7 people.

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Originally Posted by doctor_jimbob

They weren't designed to be skipped every time either, otherwise there wouldn't be an option to watch.

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Did I say they were designed to be skipped every time? On the contrary i even pointed out that they were designed to be watched your first time.

People only have 1 first time. After that, they play to farm tomes and do so skipping cutscenes.

There will always be a significantly larger group of people who have watched the cutscenes than those who haven't.

The end.

I am starting to think that tanks are those who are doing the kicking since I am a tank, and have yet to witness a single person booted for watching cutscenes...

Vote Kick should be disabled from all story dungeons for this reason, people abuse it. Roulette was put in place to support new players who couldn't get parties to do the story content, it was not put in place for end game content players to take advantage of. The Tome bonus is for supporting the first timers, they should not be forced to ruin their first time experience to suit the needs of end game players grinding it for purely selfish gain.

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Originally Posted by Adramelech

Vote Kick should be disabled from all story dungeons for this reason

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Hi, I'm afk, good luck !

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Roulette was put in place to support new players who couldn't get parties to do the story content, it was not put in place for end game content players to take advantage of.
The Tome bonus is for supporting the first timers, they should not be forced to ruin their first time experience to suit the needs of end game players grinding it for purely selfish gain.

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That's why the first time you're clearing it, you get 100 tomes and after that you can get 300. Yeah, to "support" first timers they don't give more tomes for the first time ..... Flawless logic ! Or, perhaps, if they wanted to support first timers, they'd give a bonus to first timers ?

And about being selfish, as usual some people call the rest of the World "selfish" for not willing to help them for free and at their own pace.

And how would you do it differently. You need a party to get in the dungeon scoo I dunno an alternative.

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Originally Posted by Adramelech

Vote Kick should be disabled from all story dungeons for this reason, people abuse it. Roulette was put in place to support new players who couldn't get parties to do the story content, it was not put in place for end game content players to take advantage of. The Tome bonus is for supporting the first timers, they should not be forced to ruin their first time experience to suit the needs of end game players grinding it for purely selfish gain.

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Disabling Vote Kick is a bad idea entirely. There can always be legitimate grounds for kicking that will just as badly destroy a first timer's experience. Someone can be harassing and trolling the entire instance, people can disconnect and never come back, or go afk for half the instance, etc.

DR was created as an incentive for players to repeat older content and as a way to increase methods of getting tomes, gil, marks, etc. It helps players get queues more readily in otherwise abandoned content, but it isn't tailored entirely for that purpose and the new players aren't the people who make the rules or get catered to. It's simply a mutually beneficial arrangement, but all entitlements end there.

Duty Roulette is a gamble. Once in the instance, if the majority of the players have seen the cutscenes and want to skip and press on, that's what will happen. The 1-2 people who want to watch the cutscenes will either chose to watch and lag behind, probably missing out on actual boss fights or skip cutscenes, experience the fights and then watch them in the inn. You can't just roll the dice and then complain when you don't get what you want with any legitimate expectancy.

This is what friends are for. Get some friends who don't mind running through it with you and watching the cutscenes, or form a PF to meet new players who are in a similar situation (or probably even get some bored/sympathetic vets that will come to help). Do not, however, try to argue entitlement with complete strangers who may have easily queued on DF or DR for a different reason than you.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

Hi, I'm afk, good luck !



That's why the first time you're clearing it, you get 100 tomes and after that you can get 300. Yeah, to "support" first timers they don't give more tomes for the first time ..... Flawless logic ! Or, perhaps, if they wanted to support first timers, they'd give a bonus to first timers ?

And about being selfish, as usual some people call the rest of the World "selfish" for not willing to help them for free and at their own pace.

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The bonus is to help first timers, it is an incentive so that there are enough people replaying it to fill the parties for the new players so they don't have to wait so long in duty finder to get in. You have experienced it before, they haven't, don't ruin it for the new players because you only get one first time to experience the story.

People run main scenario DR for 3 basic reasons:

1. To get the win for story progression
2. To watch cutscenes in context
3. To earn tomes

For people like me with multiple lv50's who have run main scenario duties literally 100+ times, we're not there for the win and we're certainly not there for the cutscenes. We are only there for the tomes. We are tome raiders. Who cares what SE's "intention" was in creating main scenario DR? What matters is the reality of what players use it for. Players do lots of things that were unintended by developers, so what? If the devs don't like it, they'll do something about it. Otherwise, they'll let the players have their way. FFXI Ninja comes to mind.

So because SE bribes tome raiders daily with 200 bonus tomes that are only available through DR (not PF, so that is not an efficient option for tome raiders), we are willing to rerun the same content we have run dozens of times before. If we tome raiders carry new players to get the win for story progression along the way, so much the better. But that's really not why we are there. We are certainly not there to waste time we could have spent doing other things in game or IRL twiddling our thumbs while others enjoy themselves in cutscenes that the rest of us have seen dozens of times already, or are perfectly okay with watching later in inn room or YouTube.

And FYI, all cutscenes in CM combined are about 12 minutes total (not too bad, but still a full 1/3 or 33% of how long a typical speedrun takes) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ9LbmcxVrY
but all cutscenes in Praetorium combined are around 35 minutes total (no way in hell I am waiting around for that) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VPLbImc084


Some say tome raiders should use PF to form speedrun parties. So let's say the tome raiders do that. So who is left to run main scenario DR? Only those who need the win and/or want to watch cutscenes in context. How many people do you suppose that is, in comparison to the rest of the player base? Have fun waiting in queue. Or ask your FC for help, as others have already suggested.

When a family member or a friend from out of town comes to visit, I'm happy to drive them around sightseeing to places I've seen dozens of times because of the relationship I have with them. But I am not willing to drive a hitchhiker I just met on such a sightseeing tour, and I find it rather presumptuous and rude for someone who has no relationship with me to expect (demand) me to go out of my way for the sake of a stranger.

Some people want to stop and smell the roses and immerse themselves in the story. That's fine, enjoy the game your way. Other people want to experience much and more that the game has to offer and immerse themselves in a variety of gameplay. "I want to take it slow and enjoy the story" vs "I want to hurry up and enjoy the rest of the game." There is nothing either side can say or do to convince the other that their playstyle is better, because it is simply a matter of preference.

So what to do when both types of gamers are thrown together in the same main scenario DR? I think fairness dictates that majority should rule. If you're a take it slow and watch cutscenes type and you're in the minority, don't get offended if the rest of the party goes on without you (getting vote kicked is definitely griefing though and uncool). Speed running tome raiders are likely overgeared and don't need you to progress, anyway. But if I'm the only tome raider in the group, then personally I'd rather drop party and do other things in game while eating the 30min debuff so everybody else can enjoy their take it slow run without my complaining. Enjoy your time waiting on a replacement tank, though, and hope he/she isn't a tome raider.

I'm not going to force anyone to adopt my playstyle, but neither am I going to let anyone else force me to adopt their playstyle.

They need to create a bonus for the level-cap story-content for parties that contain new players, expect instead of rewarding the party exp for speed of completion it should reward them tomes for still having the newbies in the party at the end of the dungeon so people would be somewhat nicer because they'll feel they're being compensated to wait and know that being overly rude to the new guys may lead to them quitting and the party losing that extra bonus.

It's pretty depressing to have to bribe people to be decent human beings, though.

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Originally Posted by kiotsukete

People run main scenario DR for 3 basic reasons:

1. To get the win for story progression
2. To watch cutscenes in context
3. To earn tomes

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Maybe off topic but there's a 4th as well: To enjoy running the full dungeon experience.

I don't particularly like the games storyline but on a first run i use party finder or free company to do a watch all cutscenes run.

After that I don't care if people will skip cutscenes but I do not want to skip most of the actual content (area's, mobs), feel rushed or pressured to play my role perfectly. Also, it's nice to have a laugh and play with varied skill levels / play styles (keeps things interesting and imho is one of the best aspects of the MMO genre over playing with solo RPG).

I do want tomes, but that's secondary for me. While I'm annoyed I can't make use of the duty roulette with this goal I accept your point about letting the goals of the majority rule, and so grudgingly will use the party finder.