Vote Kick if watching cut scene? Dev Pls Respond

Just to make things clear. For me the moment some1 will want to banned another players for such stupid reason, ill cast vote to kick that guy. I have no patience for the impatient.

I can understand the need to allow this feature to work while someone is in a cutscene. Some cutscenes require you to advance dialog boxes for the scene to finish. If the kick feature did not work during cutscenes, people AFKing could simply wait for one of those cutscenes to play and walk away from their keyboards then and the cutscene would not advance and would never finish for that player.

With only 1 kick allowed per 4 hours, I think the odds that this will be abused for removing people who are watching cutscenes are fairly slim.

whereas the rest of the group banding together to kick the jerk who is complaining that people are watching cutscenes would be a much better use of that 4 hour cooldown :)

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Originally Posted by mikoto_qc

Just to make things clear. For me the moment some1 will want to banned another players for such stupid reason, ill cast vote to kick that guy. I have no patience for the impatient.

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Making you impatient, so you will drop group!?

vote to kick will just make using the DF more of a pain then /shouting for a party.
if vote to kick works by majority its going to suck, if it needs input from everyone then it might work. if i see "kick <player>" pop up ill just leave ego maniacs annoy me.

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Originally Posted by AdamuKun322

Also, "you can watch the CS's in your inn room." No you cannot. You can only watch a few select ones. The only time a kick feature is needed is in a dungeon with no CS's and the Primal battles.

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while i agree with limiting the vote-kick to dungeons without a dozen CS's in the middle of them (every dungeon has a cutscene at the beginning and at the end)

you really need to stop spreading misinformation.. every CS you see in a story dungeon is viewable from your innroom, they're just not all under the same submenu

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Originally Posted by zakalw3

Absolutely not. First timers can be kick-worthy too, they're just as likely as anyone else to be abusive.

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I've never once heard anyone complaining about an abusive first timer. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Vmage

while i agree with limiting the vote-kick to dungeons without a dozen CS's in the middle of them (every dungeon has a cutscene at the beginning and at the end)

you really need to stop spreading misinformation.. every CS you see in a story dungeon is viewable from your innroom, they're just not all under the same submenu

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reletively true for most cutscenes there are a rare select few that can not be replayed in the cutscene book. Arcanist Class quest, for example, have a few cutscenes you can not replay in the book becuase those cutscenes include dialogue choices that will affect the dialogue of the cutscene that plays right after those cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

reletively true for most cutscenes there are a rare select few that can not be replayed in the cutscene book. Arcanist Class quest, for example, have a few cutscenes you can not replay in the book becuase those cutscenes include dialogue choices that will affect the dialogue of the cutscene that plays right after those cutscenes.

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And in the case of dungeons, which this thread is basically related to, you can view them all.

Let's take CM for example:

If a player sits idle with the Reaper boss cutscene dialogue long enough for the rest of the party to reach the Vanguard boss, do you think the party is wrong to consider them avoiding 'working' for completion credit?

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Originally Posted by Lurkios

Good of you to speak for all the folks that play this game. Glad we got that all cleared up now, silly folks thinking people might enjoy playing in ways you don't like.

Regardless, the system, as posted, seems fine. If someone wants to needlessly hold everyone else up they'll get the boot. Majority rules.

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Seriously? In the DF?

If it is WP, for instance, and a new-to-50 healer joins who is perfectly capable of running the dungeon at a good pace but not a true speed run, it's ok to kick that person because the others want a +1 healer who can run it in 15 minutes instead of 20?

Now, I can understand if it is a non-DF pre-made group where you sell it as a speed run and ask all players to have a minimum level of (over)gear. If someone has lied and shows up as a fresh 50, sure boot. But that capability already exists.

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Seriously? In the DF?

Now, I can understand if it is a non-DF pre-made group where you sell it as a speed run and ask all players to have a minimum level of (over)gear. If someone has lied and showed up as a fresh 50, sure boot.

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That would make no sense. If you boot a person in a pickup group, they cannot be replaced. DF is turned off if a party is fully formed via lfp invites.

So... the initial posts about this from the devs suggested that players would not be able to initiate a vote kick, that the system would do so after someone has been afk for a certain amount of time. Is this no longer going to be the case? To me, that would be the best way to do it, then the timer could be set long enough for someone to clear a cut scene in a reasonable amount of time. If you let people initiate vote kick for any reason, it will be abused. I'm certain of it.

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Originally Posted by Brises

So... the initial posts about this from the devs suggested that players would not be able to initiate a vote kick, that the system would do so after someone has been afk for a certain amount of time. Is this no longer going to be the case? To me, that would be the best way to do it, then the timer could be set long enough for someone to clear a cut scene in a reasonable amount of time. If you let people initiate vote kick for any reason, it will be abused. I'm certain of it.

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They were weighing an afk auto-kick or a vote to kick, and announced they would do the former. After the last 3 weeks of additional feedback however, they apparently changed to include the latter as an option.

Latest I heard was that the feature cannot be used until the dungeon clock has progressed 5 mins, and it may have other restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Brises

So... the initial posts about this from the devs suggested that players would not be able to initiate a vote kick, that the system would do so after someone has been afk for a certain amount of time. Is this no longer going to be the case? To me, that would be the best way to do it, then the timer could be set long enough for someone to clear a cut scene in a reasonable amount of time. If you let people initiate vote kick for any reason, it will be abused. I'm certain of it.

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There are ways to make your player move to keep from becoming afk...this accomplishes nothing. Leave it up to the players, it's not as bad as it seems. Dcuo has the vote to kick...it works pretty good most the time. Until a group of friends team up on someone.

The system should be working perfectly enough if you use like Tera, e.g. enable a run check whether combat has end for an amount of time.

In Tera, you can't vote kick people after combat end in 2 mins.

In FF14, as there are cutscenes and such everywhere, you can just increase the time limit to ~5min ? and might as well while the loot is being rolled.

Sadly i always skip cutscenes because of what i heard. As a new player this was sort of a wtf moment and watching them at the inn later is not the same.
At the same time however if i see players are viewing the cutscene i do not say anything. Maybe SE should not have a timer begin while you watch the scenes as was suggested by players already. Including a "kick" option just because players want to view scenes would really loose new players, i know i would possibly leave

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

There are ways to make your player move to keep from becoming afk...this accomplishes nothing. Leave it up to the players, it's not as bad as it seems. Dcuo has the vote to kick...it works pretty good most the time. Until a group of friends team up on someone.

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If it only requires a simple majority, any 5 players from the same FC can kick anyone just because they don't play the way they like. People should only be kicked because they are legitimately causing a problem, never because they "aren't good enough" or don't want to sr, etc... I would like to know what measures SE has in mind to prevent abuse of this feature.

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Originally Posted by Zirael_Foxfire

if you join event marked as [New Player], you should not expect kick, and if you do get kicked, you have rightful case to call GM for griefing.

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Nice theory, pity it's fatally flawed .. SE haven't said this is against the 'rules' so a GM won't do anything.

As someone else said, players on their 'noob' run through should not be kickable, period!

/kick is going to cause huge amounts of griefing on NA/EU servers, it won't be seen on JP servers because they're not infested with ass-hats like we have to put up with.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

"/kick is going to cause huge amounts of griefing on NA/EU servers, it won't be seen on JP servers because they're not infested with ass-hats like we have to put up with."

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This is so true. I have been in groups with some wonderful people who are patient and also knowledgeable. Then I get the "FFS Hurry up Tank I needz Lewtz" brigade.

Does it really matter what their reason is? If the majority of your group doesn't want you there they should be able to get rid of you.

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Originally Posted by Darkhaund

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Originally Posted by Seidaku

Is it going to be possible for people to initiate a vote kick for people who are watching the cut scenes? If this is going to be possible then let me know so I can just quit right now.

I will not support a game that will throw someone under the bus like this because of impatience from other people.

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It because of people like you that do not care for the story that this game is ruined

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did you seriously just quote someone who is against kicking for watching cutscenes as not caring for the story? really?

Funny!
You guys wanne kick ppl while in cutscenes and ruin your own dungeon run with that kick?

Think about it, if you kick a player you have to search a new one and this take time. Maybe not much time but maybe at a special time you have to wait more than 2 minutes or so. Is this what you all want? Kicking people to wait for new ones?

I dont think that there will be many ppl to use this kick feature while ppl are at cutscenes! And in other MMOs with that feature you have to be in a premade group to get a votekick done otherwise many ppl dont vote if you try to kick some1. Many times you are in a dungeon with 2 x 2 premade grp than your votekick fail!

Remember kicking players will cause you to do the dungeon longer cause of waiting for a new player!

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

You have to consider the fact that if it was not possible to kick people that were intentionally going AFK while watching a cutscene, then there would be more issues.

That said, as stated by Yoshida previously, we will take abuses of the system seriously and will take action against those using it for malicious purposes.

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There is already issues with players watching the cutscene more so for the 8 man end story dungeon......other players just don't want to wait around,say they don't want to waist there time waiting for others had this myself a few times.

As for taking action who are we suppose to report the whole raid/group ??? so guess we need to take screen shots of the whole raid/group before we head of hmmmmm...

As Milmoko_Gemoko has stated you must know when someone is in a cutscene or not..you do right ??

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We checked on this with the UI team who informed us that the kick option cannot be used until 5 minutes after the start of the dungeon.

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Better would be "5 minutes after the start of the cutscene". Not every dungeon has cutszenes only at the beginning and the end of it.

Thank god this topic didn't start out how the title lead me to believe at first.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Problem is some ppl done want to. I have been in dungeons where the tanks obviously fated themselves to 50, cannot hold hate for anything esp on more than 1 target and tell you to %@$# off if you try to give them helpful tips or just ignore you flat out and continue to suck throughout. Some goes for dd and healers



Also not always an option if you are a dd and already have to wait up to an hr or more for a run in df, esp for story missions

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For your first point, that's why I said to just leave the group...

For your second point, why isn't that an option? So you need to wait an hour, big deal. How long did it take to form a group in FFXI (and no queue, so you were literally just standing around)? As I said, what's the rush?? Do something else while you're in queue... A vote kick still doesn't seem necessary. Maybe a timer on custscene's seems more reasonable...

So, to those who say to disable the kick button on cutscenes, what happens when someone enters a dungeon and never leaves a cut scene. What if they join the dungeon, never exit a cs and never progress the dialogue...oh wait now the run is being held up. Look, if you can't read an opening CS in 5 minutes and explain that it's your first time and you have the reading skills of a 3rd grader to your party and you are going to hold the party hostage for 15 minutes or until the duty timer hits 0, then you should get the boot.

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Originally Posted by Realchucky

Think about it, if you kick a player you have to search a new one and this take time. Maybe not much time but maybe at a special time you have to wait more than 2 minutes or so. Is this what you all want?

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These are the same players who'd rather drop group and get the penalty because they rage at people who watch cutscenes. Theyd rather wait 10-15 minutes + who knows how long in queue rather than just wait for the cutscene. Makes no sense to me other than maybe they so damned childish they feel theyre "getting them back" and leaving the group just to spite the few who want to get the full experience they paid for.

Like the spoiled brat whod rather break his toy because he cant play with it first. Man-children ... plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Quite an extreme comparison, but an apt one nonetheless. Just because they are the majority, does not make them right.

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Yeah I was kind of worried about using this analogy. I meant no offense by it. I think it shows how majority rule can lead down a very slippery slope.

I think the best thing any of us as players can do is try to help the system work as best as possible. Even though there will be those that are rude and try to kick people during the CS before bosses, the rest of us as players have the responsibility to ensure our gaming community doesn't get to be rude or nasty with each other by saying NO to kicking for that reason. We as players can see when they are in a CS, so we as players should know better than to hit YES. It's up to us to take the high road and keep the gaming community friendly. The devs can only do so much to help us. The devs have a choice, let players continue to abuse hard working players by going AFK in a dungeon...or give players some control but sadly with that we as players need to take that privilege seriously and not abuse it.

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Originally Posted by kanjitai

Yeah I was kind of worried about using this analogy. I meant no offense by it. I think it shows how majority rule can lead down a very slippery slope.

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Agree with your point but I can't agree with ever using the Nazi Holocaust as an analogy for actions in a video game.

They just need to make the decision to watch or skip cutscenes apply to the entire group. If everybody agrees that they all want to skip a cutscene, then that cutscene will be skipped. If there is anybody in the group who wants to watch a cutscene, then everyone will watch that entire cutscene. That way there would be no way to single out the player who was watching it either to kick him, harrass him about it, or leave him behind.

If it's a cutscene with dialog that needs to be advanced, this would require setting a minimum time (reasonable for at least a fast reader to read that dialog) before it can be advanced. There would still be a few seconds difference in how long different players take to finish, based on how fast they read and advance through it, but anyone continuing through it legitimately would finish pretty near the same time as the rest of the group. On the other hand, if someone went AFK during the scene, it would become obvious when the rest of the group had been finished for a couple minutes and they're still in the scene. The vote-to-kick feature could be temporarily disabled right as people come out of the cutscene, but reenabled a couple minutes after its minimum time, so as to kick anyone who went AFK during it.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

sure he does

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So, the player has to actually be AFK? What about if they "AFK" by alt tabbing and just moving around every minute or two?

So, either the OP's concerns are real, or the vote kick system is utterly useless.

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Originally Posted by kanjitai

Yeah I was kind of worried about using this analogy. I meant no offense by it. I think it shows how majority rule can lead down a very slippery slope.

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You compared people who wants to skip cutscenes to Natzis. Yes, you absolutely meant to be offensive. One of the most offensive things I've read in this forum. Disgusting.

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Originally Posted by KraggyKor

The problem is that SE don't understand the utter selfish and self-centred attitude of many 'western' players. I doubt very much that any such 'CS-watcher kicking' will happen on JP servers, by and large JP players are not like that, on the NA/EU servers I expect it'll be common place.

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What a racist thing to say. What makes you think it is only western players that are self-centered and selfish?

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Originally Posted by Bossycow

You compared people who wants to skip cutscenes to Natzis. Yes, you absolutely meant to be offensive. One of the most offensive things I've read in this forum. Disgusting.

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Again it was wrong of me to use that analogy. The principal is the same. The way some people in our community have verbally assaulted others for watching cut scenes or not doing things there way would get them arrested in real life if they were to say that to someone's face. It would be taken as a threat, abuse or assault. So again I say I'm sorry for the analogy.

I should have phrased it different but where does it end? If people are allowed to do these things what's to stop it from progressing further?

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Originally Posted by Despite

Pretty much every dungeon I've been in someone told me to skip the cutscenes.. not ask. Told.

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This is the number one reason why I just go with majority Free Company members, and maybe take one DF person along. Watching cutscenes will not that THAT much out of the dungeon timer, that you must rush through.

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Originally Posted by kanjitai

Again it was wrong of me to use that analogy. The principal is the same. The way some people in our community have verbally assaulted others for watching cut scenes or not doing things there way would get them arrested in real life if they were to say that to someone's face. It would be taken as a threat, abuse or assault. So again I say I'm sorry for the analogy.

I should have phrased it different but where does it end? If people are allowed to do these things what's to stop it from progressing further?

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Thank you for the apology. Nazi and Racist slurs have no place in even spirited discussions of video game playstyles.

I think the main concern is that people can use it to grief and luckily that falls under harassment. Think about it, if people are going to kick you for watching cutscenes and you are a damage dealer, which means you probably already waited 20+ minutes to get in, to be kicked out 5 minutes into the dungeon for watching a cutscene? Yeah, I will be hitting that report button faster then my mouse can act on it.

Also, they keep server / duty finder logs. Just report the time, when, where and with who'm and they can easily retrieve the names over multiple servers, tied at that exact moment, with you in a group. Databases are the key here and they have them.

I do not think you understand how things work, mainly life in general.

The majority of the public wants a vote to kick feature, of course this comes with many limitations to attempt to keep people from abusing, but YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.

A vote to kick feature serves one purpose and one purpose only, TO KICK a person or persons out of the group due to majority vote.

The reason does not matter, sorry it really does not.

If you are in a group of 8 and NO one else needs to watch CS, sorry but they should have the right to vote kick you. What else would it be for?

I myself do not use the DF to find party members, but with the new features coming up on 2.1 I likely will quite often.

If I get qued with someone who is wasting the parties time by randomly afking and not doing their best to progress the dungeon I should have the right to initiate a vote kick.

Sorry if the reason behind the vote kick bothers you, but that is life, grow up a bit.