"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

Seriously I get shivers reading some of the answers in this thread. You guys play this game like its your work or a marathon or what?

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Originally Posted by DayHealer

Seriously I get shivers reading some of the answers in this thread. You guys play this game like its your work or a marathon or what?

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Yes. It is exactly how you say. No chill. Only hardcore. Sastasha "speedrunning" by pressing sprint, every morning. Then moving to a next duty to bully new players. You gotta pump the mooscles on someone who doesn't know how to play after all.

/s

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Originally Posted by DayHealer

Seriously I get shivers reading some of the answers in this thread. You guys play this game like its your work or a marathon or what?

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There are folks who do have fun by playing effectively and/or efficiently. They play the game to have fun, and if that's what makes the experience fun for them, then they will do just that. Just like how there are people can have fun by playing at slower pace.

Due to the nature of DF not paying mind to what type of players you're going to be paired with, you'll see them one way or another.

In the end, it's the majority in the party that rules. If more people wants it fast, then that's the pace the party will go with. The opposite is also true. The minority will just have to cooperate/bear with the party (this is what happen most of the time), use the door themselves (not the norm but happens), or have somebody vote them out (a rarity).

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Originally Posted by Szylver

If you wanna do speedruns to perfect your clear time in every dungeon, that's a YOU thing. Most people do dungeons for leveling or farm and thats about it. No one enters a dungeon and said "hey guys we are gona break our record"

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Since you are already being answered for the silliness of your definition of speedruns... Well I might add a comparison: if trying to break a record for a 100m dash is "speedrunning", and walking to your destination at a leisurely pace is pulling two packs at a time, then getting there on a tricycle is pulling single packs.

But I wanted to really reply about is the YOU thing... and something else about not forcing my playstyle or whatever, not sure, I saw it on mobile earlier but you have since edited it out. Well, guess what, insisting on single pulling or on only one player being allowed to perform this function is a YOU thing too. This argument can be so easily flipped over that it's not even fun to do so. If the tank is insisting on "setting the pace" and "being respected" and everyone else wants to hurry it up and w2w, and the tank out of stubborness refuses to hit their 1-2 AoE combo that makes them have aggro on everything forever, who's at fault?

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Originally Posted by DayHealer

Seriously I get shivers reading some of the answers in this thread. You guys play this game like its your work or a marathon or what?

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Seriously I get shivers reading some of the answers in this thread. You guys play this game like tanking seven mobs is harder than tanking three or what?

I think SE could do with making W2Ws a bit harder since everybody loves them. Perhaps adding mobs that buff other enemies just from being around them. That way W2W becomes a skill check and not just a braindead thing.

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Originally Posted by Celine_Aurora

Since you are already being answered for the silliness of your definition of speedruns... Well I might add a comparison: if trying to break a record for a 100m dash is "speedrunning", and walking to your destination at a leisurely pace is pulling two packs at a time, then getting there on a tricycle is pulling single packs.

But I wanted to really reply about is the YOU thing... and something else about not forcing my playstyle or whatever, not sure, I saw it on mobile earlier but you have since edited it out. Well, guess what, insisting on single pulling or on only one player being allowed to perform this function is a YOU thing too. This argument can be so easily flipped over that it's not even fun to do so. If the tank is insisting on "setting the pace" and "being respected" and everyone else wants to hurry it up and w2w, and the tank out of stubborness refuses to hit their 1-2 AoE combo that makes them have aggro on everything forever, who's at fault?

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The tank. One thing is being new to the game the other one is toxic behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Celine_Aurora

Seriously I get shivers reading some of the answers in this thread. You guys play this game like tanking seven mobs is harder than tanking three or what?

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I play both tank and healer and most of the time i see w2w pulls idk what you people are crying about. The only thing that bothers me is when a funny guy runs ahead and pulls everything and almost die because they couldn't wait 1 second for the tank to take aggro.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I think SE could do with making W2Ws a bit harder since everybody loves them. Perhaps adding mobs that buff other enemies just from being around them. That way W2W becomes a skill check and not just a braindead thing.

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I would love that, but I doubt they will. W2W use to be a skill check. But the devs dumbed down aggro, the way jobs work and dungeons overall. I don't see them going back.

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Originally Posted by Szylver

The tank. One thing is being new to the game the other one is toxic behaviour.



I play both tank and healer and most of the time i see w2w pulls idk what you people are crying about. The only thing that bothers me is when a funny guy runs ahead and pulls everything and almost die because they couldn't wait 1 second for the tank to take aggro.

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If that's your experience, far from me to deny it - I have not met a lot of YPYT tanks in the wild either - but how is that relevant? We are specifically discussing that kind of behavior. You know, tanks intentionally and maliciously refusing to take aggro, even when the pulling dps makes it easier for them by pulling a pack directly on their heads so they can snap aggro with a single AoE action.

This answers your first point, too. I'd say a tank refusing to take aggro if a dps makes it easy for them after pulling is aggressive, malicious, and far from being new at the game - you have to go out of your way to let a dps keep aggro after they trained mobs to you. We are not talking about people getting aggro and then training the mobs in Narnia and the tank being unable to keep up, I reiterate, we are talking about tanks intentionally letting people keep aggro and die. It's not people new to the game, or to the genre, that cry about the tank being the leader and setting the pace either. These are grognard concepts that needed to die when we realized XIV (and modern WoW for that matter) made tanking dungeons piss easy.

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

Yes. It is exactly how you say. No chill. Only hardcore. Sastasha "speedrunning" by pressing sprint, every morning. Then moving to a next duty to bully new players. You gotta pump the mooscles on someone who doesn't know how to play after all.

/s

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whats ur Sastasha record

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Originally Posted by Remolia

whats ur Sastasha record

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36 sprouts crying, 41 leavers, 19 mentors banned for inappropriate speech usage.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I think SE could do with making W2Ws a bit harder since everybody loves them. Perhaps adding mobs that buff other enemies just from being around them. That way W2W becomes a skill check and not just a braindead thing.

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They did that a bit in ShB with the Fuath who will buff the big guys and tethered mobs that will debuff who they're tethered to like in Amaurot with mobs that tether to the healer. Problem is the w2w mentality just has those mobs ignored. I would explain to groups when Amaurot came out that I was struggling because the tethered mob was severely limiting my healing and then if we wiped, they would just ignore it again. In this expansion, they had mobs with donut AoEs that should be safe spots that just get line AoEs pulled right over them. I see this often in Euphrosyne especially with the ice mobs. There's often no safe spot in range of hitting for a melee. Gotta dip out of the AoEs entirely to not die because the tanks don't care how anything is arranged. W2W is never going to become a skill check because it's not a method that requires that sort of skill or attention to detail. It's just pull everything and burn it down.

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Originally Posted by Szylver

an instance of completing a video game, or level of a game, as fast as possible.

google.

Dungeons is a chill activity. Is that hard to undestand? if you want to speedrun dungeons then you should do it with a private party. Not forcing tanks to play the way you want. But if you don't like how people tank then you can tank or play healer and tell them that they can do w2w pulls.

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Have you considered what each person finds chill will be subjective? Speaking for myself, I find blitzing through dungeons efficiently for leveling purposes to be chill simply because the content itself is piss easy. I don't have to think, I simply spam buttons—often with music or a podcast in the background. Going slow means I'll have to run more dungeons and waste time on boring content. At the end of the day, I run dungeons as an ends to means not because I necessarily enjoy them. They're just the best way to level. Although, I should note I don't dislike them either. Bit of an indifference unless they're bogged down in some form or another.

Simply put, your definition of chill and mine are very different. Is that hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

They did that a bit in ShB with the Fuath who will buff the big guys and tethered mobs that will debuff who they're tethered to like in Amaurot with mobs that tether to the healer. Problem is the w2w mentality just has those mobs ignored. I would explain to groups when Amaurot came out that I was struggling because the tethered mob was severely limiting my healing and then if we wiped, they would just ignore it again. In this expansion, they had mobs with donut AoEs that should be safe spots that just get line AoEs pulled right over them. I see this often in Euphrosyne especially with the ice mobs. There's often no safe spot in range of hitting for a melee. Gotta dip out of the AoEs entirely to not die because the tanks don't care how anything is arranged. W2W is never going to become a skill check because it's not a method that requires that sort of skill or attention to detail. It's just pull everything and burn it down.

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Long post to talk about what is no more than a skill issue on the healers part

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

They did that a bit in ShB with the Fuath who will buff the big guys and tethered mobs that will debuff who they're tethered to like in Amaurot with mobs that tether to the healer. Problem is the w2w mentality just has those mobs ignored. I would explain to groups when Amaurot came out that I was struggling because the tethered mob was severely limiting my healing and then if we wiped, they would just ignore it again. In this expansion, they had mobs with donut AoEs that should be safe spots that just get line AoEs pulled right over them. I see this often in Euphrosyne especially with the ice mobs. There's often no safe spot in range of hitting for a melee. Gotta dip out of the AoEs entirely to not die because the tanks don't care how anything is arranged. W2W is never going to become a skill check because it's not a method that requires that sort of skill or attention to detail. It's just pull everything and burn it down.

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Which is why there NEEDS to be a skill check. W2W pulls should only be possible with DPS, a healer, and a tank that are good. If anybody is subpar, it should either be incredibly difficult or impossible. Why? Because, W2W pulling used to separate the good players from the bad, and would pretty much solve the entire problem. If anybody isn't good enough, it just won't happen.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Which is why there NEEDS to be a skill check. W2W pulls should only be possible with DPS, a healer, and a tank that are good. If anybody is subpar, it should either be incredibly difficult or impossible. Why? Because, W2W pulling used to separate the good players from the bad, and would pretty much solve the entire problem. If anybody isn't good enough, it just won't happen.

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That's how it should go but the mentality is so prevalent now that people would rather wipe a group over and over and over trying to force w2w than assess the party's limits and find what works for that particular makeup. Maybe if it became impossible enough but I worry it would just lead to a lot of unnecessary toxicity when we're all just trying to get through the instance.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I worry it would just lead to a lot of unnecessary toxicity when we're all just trying to get through the instance.

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This is my expectation, MMO players tend to have a high roll mindset where if you give them two options between high and low, they will always push for the high to be the only acceptable outcome, and while it would also lead to an overall increase in player skill, instead of people just accepting that their current randomly put together group can't pull it off, it probably would also result in anyone who fails to meet the mark getting outright kicked from instances, which in turn can lead to people wrongly getting kicked, because the awful tank is with their buddies and it absolutely can't be their fault so it must be the fault of the random DPS they got matched with, who coincidentally was doing the most damage out of the party.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

This is my expectation, MMO players tend to have a high roll mindset where if you give them two options between high and low, they will always push for the high to be the only acceptable outcome, and while it would also lead to an overall increase in player skill, instead of people just accepting that their current randomly put together group can't pull it off, it probably would also result in anyone who fails to meet the mark getting outright kicked from instances, which in turn can lead to people wrongly getting kicked, because the awful tank is with their buddies and it absolutely can't be their fault so it must be the fault of the random DPS they got matched with, who coincidentally was doing the most damage out of the party.

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I'd prefer for those days to be back tbh, because then instead of everybody and their mom thinking "Oh, I'll just brainlessly heavy pull", they have to actually think about it. Yes, I want the player skill ceiling to be raised, if only for the sake of the devs being able to get complex with things again (remember, the current job state is because they think the playerbase can't handle the complexity we had in SB and HW).

I can't recall the last YPYT situation I encountered, if there ever even was one. I think enough players are smart enough to realize the pettiness isn't worth it.

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Originally Posted by Dorito_Burrito

I can't recall the last YPYT situation I encountered, if there ever even was one. I think enough players are smart enough to realize the pettiness isn't worth it.

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I was with a tank and healer couple (same last name) a while ago in a dungeon who let the other DD die when he pulled. Sadly that DD left in an instant so no chance to kick them both.

While I am strictly against running ahead and start pulling, letting someone die out of pettiness is even worse.

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Originally Posted by Dorito_Burrito

I can't recall the last YPYT situation I encountered, if there ever even was one. I think enough players are smart enough to realize the pettiness isn't worth it.

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I don't think you're ever going to see anyone acknowledge it any more. People are smart and they know that saying it is essentially incriminating themselves.

Also the healer and tank both have to be on the same page about it. If the tank decides to quietly switch to single target attacks as a dps pulls the second wave of mobs in order to not take aggro but the healer heals said dps along with the tank, then the tank may as well just accept the situation. If the DPS dies, regardless of whether or not the healer was trying to keep them alive the tank will feel brave enough to tell them that it was their fault though.

Of course this also depends on the DPS. A lot of DPS don't really want to fight with the tank/healer over pulls either. It's even rare for me to see a healer rescue dragging tanks to make things faster, much less a dps doing any more than going as far ahead of the tank as they can without pulling aggro and waiting for the tank to get there.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Which is why there NEEDS to be a skill check. W2W pulls should only be possible with DPS, a healer, and a tank that are good. If anybody is subpar, it should either be incredibly difficult or impossible. Why? Because, W2W pulling used to separate the good players from the bad, and would pretty much solve the entire problem. If anybody isn't good enough, it just won't happen.

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But why? Why should the devs make dungeons like they are savage+. Your idea would only make pairing with randoms worse. No one would want to queue for dungeons. It would be slow,filled with egotistical tanks and frustration.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'd prefer for those days to be back tbh, because then instead of everybody and their mom thinking "Oh, I'll just brainlessly heavy pull", they have to actually think about it. Yes, I want the player skill ceiling to be raised, if only for the sake of the devs being able to get complex with things again (remember, the current job state is because they think the playerbase can't handle the complexity we had in SB and HW).

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Lol, this is your solution? People struggle enough already. So let’s make the game harder and therefore, less accessible to the average player.

Expect more vote kicks to innocent players who just can’t pull their socks up and trip over their own laces so that others can clear what should be casual content. Give that head a shake. You found the recipe to bring back the ARR elitism

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Originally Posted by Tint

I was with a tank and healer couple (same last name) a while ago in a dungeon who let the other DD die when he pulled. Sadly that DD left in an instant so no chance to kick them both.

While I am strictly against running ahead and start pulling, letting someone die out of pettiness is even worse.

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It was clear the tank and healer were not going to allow heavy pulls, and that person left because they wanted the heavy pulls. Had they stayed and the vote dismiss gone through on either the tank or the healer, the other may have left immediately. I don't think heavy pulling was going to happen there unless you were willing to wait the X amount of minutes to get replacements, at which point you'd have already been at the boss through single pulling.

I can't imagine people struggling with normal dungeons as being "of average skill".

And if this is indeed the average, and people think of it as a good thing, God save us.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It was clear the tank and healer were not going to allow heavy pulls, and that person left because they wanted the heavy pulls. Had they stayed and the vote dismiss gone through on either the tank or the healer, the other may have left immediately. I don't think heavy pulling was going to happen there unless you were willing to wait the X amount of minutes to get replacements, at which point you'd have already been at the boss through single pulling.

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Well they did do big pulls, they were just a bit slow with moving.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Well they did do big pulls, they were just a bit slow with moving.

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Ahh, that explains it. The other person should have been more patient then.

Or the tank and healer could have just... done their Jobs and grabbed hate on the mobs, rather than be petty and let the DPS KO (slowing the run down even more) because they were just a little faster than them.

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Originally Posted by Dorito_Burrito

I can't recall the last YPYT situation I encountered, if there ever even was one.

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It also depends a lot on how you play, if you never pull ahead of the Tank yourself, then it massively reduces the odds of finding a YPYT because then it's entirely on the other DPS to do it.

Personally I only encountered a YPYT once, and it was a failed one, only the other DPS was a sprout in a run of Sastasha(a Lancer so it was clear it was somebody very new), I figured under those conditions, we'd be hitting wtw every pull, so after the Coeurl in the big open area, I ran ahead and started jumping over the railings and group every relevant enemy pack together, the Tank stood there for a moment and went "In a hurry, are we?", but after a moment it was clear I wasn't going to die and mobs were dying very fast(DNC is a monster when sync'd low), so they joined in to finish the pull.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Or the tank and healer could have just... done their Jobs and grabbed hate on the mobs, rather than be petty and let the DPS KO (slowing the run down even more) because they were just a little faster than them.

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What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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Or, (even though this poster probably has me blocked as I disagree with them), dpsing down 2 packs of mobs is twice the damage done. Therefore bigger dps. Math is easy. 2 is double of 1

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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Saving your burst for the larger cluster is more efficient. Unless you don't mean for them to use their burst and instead just basic aoes, you wont get them past half health usually.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Saving your burst for the larger cluster is more efficient. Unless you don't mean for them to use their burst and instead just basic aoes, you wont get them past half health usually.

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That and it is more efficient for tanks and healers to use our CDs on two big pulls instead of four small pulls. Just more efficient all around.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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If a DPS is outpacing the tank and healer without using Sprint (this is my only assumption), then the tank and healer (who were already confirmed in this scenario to be w2wing. They were just slow) need to go faster. A DPS with hate will not die in the next 5-10 seconds, so they're effectively free mitigation for the tank. Once the DPS bring the trash back to the tank, all the tank has to do is spam their AoE and now everything is under control. Healer doesn't even really need to heal the DPS either because they shouldn't be taking any more damage (unless it's a mob that does unavoidable damage). Maybe throw a regen on them if WHM/AST.

I genuinely do not understand why you're enabling the tank and healer for letting a DPS KO by stating the DPS should have been more patient.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

What, and NOT remind DPS that they should be focusing on the adds already grabbed to weaken them up in advance before they're all wrangled together? But seriously, the time that DPS spent grabbing new mobs could have been spent murdering the ones already grabbed. By the time the tank/healer reached the second group the first group could have been either near dead or already dead from AoE.

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Maybe in Copperbell mines. When mobs starting get moderately tanky, it's a lot more efficient to AoE them two groups at a time, than stopping to kill a pack and then starting over again.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I genuinely do not understand why you're enabling the tank and healer for letting a DPS KO by stating the DPS should have been more patient.

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Because I have dealt with that crap constantly since 2.0, and it reached a point to where I'm the jaded tank going "Fine, you do it if you don't think I'm going fast enough," AND the jaded healer going "HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME HEAL UNNECESSARILY, YOU DIE WHEN I SAY SO AND I SAY DIE!" Seriously, I'm at that point to where people will get no sympathy from me, only aggression. I'm also a DPS who will spam their AoE and use their big cooldowns on mobs to speed up the run while running between groups. Just kill the damned things we've got during the pull, stop running ahead of the tank when that only makes this take longer to kill these things.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Because I have dealt with that crap constantly since 2.0, and it reached a point to where I'm the jaded tank going "Fine, you do it if you don't think I'm going fast enough," AND the jaded healer going "HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME HEAL UNNECESSARILY, YOU DIE WHEN I SAY SO AND I SAY DIE!" Seriously, I'm at that point to where people will get no sympathy from me, only aggression. I'm also a DPS who will spam their AoE and use their big cooldowns on mobs to speed up the run while running between groups. Just kill the damned things we've got during the pull, stop running ahead of the tank when that only makes this take longer to kill these things.

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So you let people die as a tank because people make your job harder by pulling for you. You let people die as a healer because you have to "heal unnecessarily". But yet you're the DPS who goes absolutely ham on the mobs mid pull and rips aggro off tanks (since most tanks only hit the mobs once and move on to the next group). So you make the tanks job harder, make the healer have to "unnecessarily heal" but yet if anyone has the gall to do it to you, you're so "jaded" that you grief them. That entitlement.

Sounds to me like you're the problem. You're the type of player most people in this game would complain about.

You've hit rock bottom mentally and emotionally and you're actively trying to drag others down with you.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Because I have dealt with that crap constantly since 2.0, and it reached a point to where I'm the jaded tank going "Fine, you do it if you don't think I'm going fast enough," AND the jaded healer going "HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME HEAL UNNECESSARILY, YOU DIE WHEN I SAY SO AND I SAY DIE!" Seriously, I'm at that point to where people will get no sympathy from me, only aggression. I'm also a DPS who will spam their AoE and use their big cooldowns on mobs to speed up the run while running between groups. Just kill the damned things we've got during the pull, stop running ahead of the tank when that only makes this take longer to kill these things.

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But... If you gather the second pack you can AoE double the mobs at the same time, and the DPS get to hit double the mobs with their big bursts and Limit Breaks, and possibly the tank gets to invuln more mobs, it ends up saving time...

As usual, YPYT and sketch takes about "efficiency" go hand in hand.

Regarding your thing about jaded tanks and healers sabotaging the run because of entitlement, do you know what this reminds me of? Playing MOBA when tilted. When you think you are not only owed a victory, but owed for everyone else to play the way you know is right so you get it, and if they don't you start throwing 4 minutes in a match and end up not getting the victory. It is the most toxic garbage ever and tanks who refuse to tank, healers who refuse to heal, show the same behavior, you just think it's less harmful because you are guaranteed the "win", clearing the dungeon, eventually, if people don't leave or kick you over your bullshit - but I'd say that a dungeon taking 10 minutes longer than it has to because you let dps players die at trash packs to make your misguided point should count as a "loss".

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

So you let people die as a tank because people make your job harder by pulling for you. You let people die as a healer because you have to "heal unnecessarily". But yet you're the DPS who goes absolutely ham on the mobs mid pull and rips aggro off tanks (since most tanks only hit the mobs once and move on to the next group). So you make the tanks job harder, make the healer have to "unnecessarily heal" but yet if anyone has the gall to do it to you, you're so "jaded" that you grief them. That entitlement.

Sounds to me like you're the problem. You're the type of player most people in this game would complain about.

You've hit rock bottom mentally and emotionally and you're actively trying to drag others down with you.

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I have rules about this.

If I'm a tank pulling and nobody is running ahead but aggro is gained off me, I will pick it up immediately, it was my fault for not getting enough aggro on them to avoid that. If you run ahead, I will not grab the aggro UNLESS the healer heals you, at which point I'm doing it to save that healer in advance.

If I'm healer, I will heal you if you accidentally grabbed aggro off the tank while they were running ahead, because again, tank didn't have enough aggro but was trying to grab everything, so I will keep you alive. If you pull ahead of the tank and the tank grabs it, I will heal you because the tank feels you shouldn't die. If you pull ahead and the tank does not grab the aggro, I will let you go down.

If I'm DPS and I steal the aggro off the tank from the adds they first picked up, I will sprint and catch up to them, standing there in front of them when he finally stops so they can pick the adds up as they come from behind. If they and the healer let me die, I won't bother AoEing the adds until they're all gathered for the rest of the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I have rules about this.

If I'm a tank pulling and nobody is running ahead but aggro is gained off me, I will pick it up immediately, it was my fault for not getting enough aggro on them to avoid that. If you run ahead, I will not grab the aggro UNLESS the healer heals you, at which point I'm doing it to save that healer in advance.

If I'm healer, I will heal you if you accidentally grabbed aggro off the tank while they were running ahead, because again, tank didn't have enough aggro but was trying to grab everything, so I will keep you alive. If you pull ahead of the tank and the tank grabs it, I will heal you because the tank feels you shouldn't die. If you pull ahead and the tank does not grab the aggro, I will let you go down.

If I'm DPS and I steal the aggro off the tank from the adds they first picked up, I will sprint and catch up to them, standing there in front of them when he finally stops so they can pick the adds up as they come from behind. If they and the healer let me die, I won't bother AoEing the adds until they're all gathered for the rest of the dungeon.

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What happens if I'm running ahead as DPS, grab aggro, then run back and park myself right on top of you so you can easily get threat from everything just by doing your normal AoE rotation?