Tank shortage is going to get worse.

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Originally Posted by seikenflash

Threat gauge next to all party members names, watch it, learn it, love it!

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That's great, but I already knew that. Now to just try and teach that to all the other people, especially the ones that like fighting their own target.. I might just let them start dying and teach them the hard way.

Also, someone mentioned healers gaining enmity via overheal.. first run in Tam-Tara, healer would use nothing but medica non-stop. I can't see them getting far in the game like that.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

So what is wrong? Gladiator/Pld is boring and not very good at multi-target tanking which is what most of the game is until endgame and even then there is some need for it. On top of this none of the tanks really feel like tanks at lower levels. We do terrible damage, can't really do much to keep ourselves safe and if any DPS wants to they can (and often do) pull things off the tank.

So why should I or anyone play a class that is boring, low damage, high stress , and only slightly tougher than other classes?

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how bout you hit 50 before you make statements? paladins are great at aoe tanking your only lvl 25...., in fact paladins are the better tank over warrior atm

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Originally Posted by v_jones

Cure III is awful, and no, you aren't going to get my job's strongest heal. That would be idiotic. This is a team game, so you'll never be self sufficient in a dungeon/raid.

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lol, I didn't said Cure III. If you read what I said, I said Cure II, Cure III would be over power. Right now we only get Cure which heal very pathetic as a Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Paladin is a Magic Tank class, they should at least get access to higher Cure, not just Cure which is pretty much useless imo.

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Have to agree here. DoW's Cure 1 is a joke. If the fight is going smooth, there's no reason for a paladin to cast gimpycure, and tbh, one mob usually hits me harder than/nearly as hard as I cure for. The only time it's really saved me is when the healer goes down and a mage steps up to try to heal me while the dd finish the boss.

Something on a several second cooldown, with real potency, would be lovely. Also, make it cost 25% of my mana. I'm not a healer, but white magic is part of the oath I took up.

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Originally Posted by AtraiusDelmar

I love tanking in this game. I have had NO issues with holding aggro either. I mean, all I do is hurl insults about various mothers and make salacious commentary and BAM! Aggro.

Granted it's from my party members and they're usually screaming that some lizard man has just given them a horrible gash. But what do I say to this? TIS A FLESH WOUND! I SHALL HEAL THEE WITH MY LOW LEVEL CURE!

The only problem is I usually find myself alone, and with an unfinished quest. Still working on it though.

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I like you.

Advice, Flash is for shining a holy light upon thine enemies and not exposing your comrades to your most indecent parts.

Tanker in Midgardsormr are as many as DPS. They are every where and steal my job!! D:

But, imo, tank is the most fun class to play in this game.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

lol, I didn't said Cure III. If you read what I said, I said Cure II, Cure III would be over power. Right now we only get Cure which heal very pathetic as a Paladin.

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I know, and I said Cure III is awful. Cure II is a White Mage's strongest single target heal.

I understand the OP's concern, but at 25 is he really able to make a statement like this with any fact?

I know on Ex, there are all sorts of shiny Pallys and Maras running around with AF gear on. Sure doesn't look like a shortage to me that I've seen.

Besides, at endgame there are usually only one/two tanks spots in any mmo that can be filled, and plenty of people have played enough to know that if your aren't that 'good geared' tank, you will sit your butt on the sidelines wishing you had rolled DPS because there are simply more spots to fill later.

I don't mind tanking getting instaqueues and getting stones to gear out my other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Paladin is a Magic Tank class, they should at least get access to higher Cure, not just Cure which is pretty much useless imo. Cure III would be over power, but at least Cure II. In FFXI Paladin was so much fun because they get access to most of the Cure to generate Hate and can heal themself when needed, in FFXIV you rely soly on the Healer to keep you alive...

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When I played FFXI, Cure III was a one way trip to OOM unless you had a RDM with you. Cure III was never the primary hate generator either, since it left you with too little MP to flash, as well as making it harder to get XP chains in grinding PTs due to downtime between fights.

Stoneskin IS your better cure. Avoiding DMG all together is just as good, if not better, since it allows the healer time to focus on other PT members if necessary. For 2x the mana you get something like 2.5-3x the mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Not really that fun, you spam the 3 skills over and over again along with flash to get hate. You mark the Target so hoping the DPS would target that monster. You constantly have to tell them to attack only the Target you attack. Ranger always keep stealing your hate showing off their DPS. Our sub job skill Cure are pathetic making it worthless. Our damage is laughable.

I hope they buff the Tank damage more, and at least gave them Cure 2.

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Shoulda went WAR then :P I'm tanking fine, even with dps and healers that are... overzealous and refuse to target marked mobs. (having pld to 50 helps though)

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Originally Posted by ventlus

how bout you hit 50 before you make statements? paladins are great at aoe tanking your only lvl 25...., in fact paladins are the better tank over warrior atm

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A war with pld skills is better than a pld. More damage, more aoe +enmity plus we gots axes mate.

think the PLD in ARR is more of the "bastion of defense" type (ie the sultansworn) so they get some healing but they are not heavily magic oriented like other interpretations of a PLD (wow pld probably being the most "magical" pld archetype ive seen in a game) it is true that cure 1 really weak but it fits in nicely in certain "oh s***!" situations though, such as to "fill" in the sch shield after a cure or to top off your own hp before a big hit when the healers are getting ready to toss in that bigger cure. Giving it any more healing potential on top of its defensive CDs (all of which are active mitigation) could lead to a really unbalanced tank class.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Not really that fun, you spam the 3 skills over and over again along with flash to get hate. You mark the Target so hoping the DPS would target that monster. You constantly have to tell them to attack only the Target you attack. Ranger always keep stealing your hate showing off their DPS. Our sub job skill Cure are pathetic making it worthless. Our damage is laughable.

I hope they buff the Tank damage more, and at least gave them Cure 2.

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When I tank i'm using the full spectrum of skills available to me. That includes the AOE, the damage reductions skills, the increased healing skill, awareness, and bulwark. Plenty to keep me busy, and alive.

You didn't mention warrior. Warrior is a blast with all those healing abilities and massive HP pool. Was my first 50 in 2.0, and I couldn't be happier with it.

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Originally Posted by Gumbercules

... it is true that cure 1 really weak but it fits in nicely in certain "oh s***!" situations though, such as to "fill" in the sch shield after a cure or to top off your own hp before a big hit when the healers are getting ready to toss in that bigger cure. Giving it any more healing potential on top of its defensive CDs (all of which are active mitigation) could lead to a really unbalanced tank class.

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Matter of preference/opinion/whathaveyou, but in an oh shit situation I'm least likely to hit Cure and more likely to hit some sort of defensive ability. As well as offer up some sort of sacrifice to whatever digital deity that will save my rear. The amount of HP gained from the lengthy time it takes to cast for me isn't worth it when going up against the meat cleaver of whatever mob(s) I'm fighting.

Maybe it's my timing in regards to the spell, but I've yet to have a moment where I found it useful. It's not even on my hotbar. :/

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Originally Posted by ventlus

how bout you hit 50 before you make statements? paladins are great at aoe tanking your only lvl 25...., in fact paladins are the better tank over warrior atm

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You sounded like you knew what you were saying, until you said pld is the better tank... Funny.

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Originally Posted by Mayin

When I tank i'm using the full spectrum of skills available to me. That includes the AOE, the damage reductions skills, the increased healing skill, awareness, and bulwark. Plenty to keep me busy, and alive.

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Agreed. I have so many cooldowns to use I've resorted to macroing two or three together because my action bars are so congested.

We don't need a better heal like others are suggesting. Would a better cure be nice? Sure. But at the end of the day it's our job to hold the threat, move out of anything we can avoid, interrupt if we can, and mitigate what we can't.

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Originally Posted by jjolin01

You didn't mention warrior. Warrior is a blast with all those healing abilities and massive HP pool. Was my first 50 in 2.0, and I couldn't be happier with it.

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Somebody gets it. Inner Beast saved my arse (and the party's) many a times. Pld is the lesser tank imo, there's a reason they had to 'give' it both flash and 'voke, which was a WAR skill orginally :P

A few things:

Tanks hold agrro no problem throughout the entire leveling process and at endgame, you just have to know your strengths and weaknesses depending on which tank class/job you're playing as. Also, I found that while leveling I did more damage in dungeons than many dps, which is a sad thing to have happen. However, once you get to level 50 and dps are geared/you play with more competent people, your damage won't compare at all. Your job is to tank, not to do damage, not to heal, tank.

In Diabolos， Tanks take 15min to queue as well. Only Healers have instant queue.

There's no shortage of tanks at the moment. I met a lot of PLD/WAR. I would like to see some statistics to see the most preferred classes/races by users. Playing as a tank is VERY fun, and I've always tanked in various MMOs. Keeping the squishies alive is my duty and I like that.

Yes, I agree on the healing spells thing. I'm not heavily equipped, but since I'm focusing on STR/VIT stats, I'm getting 4000+ HP. At the same the sime time ,my healing spell restores almost 160 HP (188 with convalescence activated), is a joke. I can't save anyone with that healing! I know the PLD is about mitigating damage and I'm not experiencing any trouble with that, but why would you give me a healing spell if it sucks so bad...?

I'm not wanting a WoW paladin with infinite healing and stuff, but, man... seriously...

Threat has not been an issue when I mark targets in dungeons. Provided I do not have an idiot for dps in the group I can keep multiple mobs on me at all times.

The squishyness (that is a word now) I can attest to at the lower levels, or feeling squishy for a tank at least. I am not sure how it pans out at the higher levels though.

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Originally Posted by AtraiusDelmar

Matter of preference/opinion/whathaveyou, but in an oh shit situation I'm least likely to hit Cure and more likely to hit some sort of defensive ability. As well as offer up some sort of sacrifice to whatever digital deity that will save my rear. The amount of HP gained from the lengthy time it takes to cast for me isn't worth it when going up against the meat cleaver of whatever mob(s) I'm fighting.

Maybe it's my timing in regards to the spell, but I've yet to have a moment where I found it useful. It's not even on my hotbar. :/

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yeah meant it more as a "nothing else left" deal. I also use it to heal others (specially healers that forget they have an hp pool too) but it is very rare specially with 10 or so active mitigation abilities at our disposal lol. Still feel that if it had any "stronger" healing ti would unbalance the class though, since tis role in ARR is mitigation meat shield.

i will admit that pld cross class synergy in regards to CNJ is nearly irrelevant though, specially when compared to warriors synergy to its cross class abilities. (guess rez saves you a phoenix down >.>)
PLD as a soak tank is designed almost flawlessly imo and it makes PLD seem lackluster playwise on the surface. (i say on the surface cuz PLD does have an easier lvl of "entry" but also a higher lvl of mastery)

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Originally Posted by Syfin

You sounded like you knew what you were saying, until you said pld is the better tank... Funny.

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well its a preference for titan for instance, warriors get chunked to shit, paladins easier to heal

In my opinion, tanking is fine here: fun, rewarding, and somewhat simple but not faceroll easy. Just give yourself some time until you level up and get more skills, and use some of the hints that have been offered in this thread.

However, what I find that can be a problem for newer tanks is the rest of the party, as if you're unlucky you can get some players that can make your job way harder and stressful than it should be. Couple that with their usual "do your job, tank!" and other crap that can make some tanks feel themselves worthless or not able to do their job properly (even if it's not their fault), and I fear for the active tank population on the long haul. There's always FC runs, of course, but for most their first experiences are going to be via pugs/duty finder.

currently i have been testing cure while on gla/pld and pretty much found out that MND is your cure potency and determination adds no value to your self heals(only heals from outside casters,etc) from my testing and boosting points into MND stat its almost a 1:1 ratio for mnd to amount of hp healed. right now and im still adding more mnd to my crafted gear i got 256 mnd so far and heal for about that much, is not exactly 1;1 but when i cast cure multiple times i generaly heal for +-3% of the mnd i have. But im no math wiz and still working on eventually seeing how much mind i can get from my gear and what i end up healing for. If i can hit 300 that's decent chunk considering most ppl i see healing themselves is for about 200 little more or less then that.

SE doesn't necessarily have to give gla/pld cure 2,3 or new healing moves but maybe rather allow determination to effect us not only when outside casters heal us but when we do our self heals.

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Originally Posted by ventlus

well its a preference for titan for instance, warriors get chunked to shit, paladins easier to heal

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I tanked titan HM no problem on my warrior. You just have to try and not hit one button to mitigate everything for 10 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

In my opinion, tanking is fine here: fun, rewarding, and somewhat simple but not faceroll easy. Just give yourself some time until you level up and get more skills, and use some of the hints that have been offered in this thread.

However, what I find that can be a problem for newer tanks is the rest of the party, as if you're unlucky you can get some players that can make your job way harder and stressful than it should be. Couple that with their usual "do your job, tank!" and other crap that can make some tanks feel themselves worthless or not able to do their job properly (even if it's not their fault), and I fear for the active tank population on the long haul....

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Agree, the tank jobs have the most stringent gear and playstyle hangups, where only THIS and THAT will work with THIS. or the party will sooner not invite.

I agree with the title of the thread but not necessarily the content of the OP. I think tanks will be in even shorter supply in the near future because of the unrealistic expectations heaped on tanks by what seems like a fair amount of the community. I am a PLD. I will always identify as a PLD and I love tanking in general, but I'm at the point where I will not use the duty finder period, end of story.

Are u sure u cant get cure 2? If you can level up your conj high enough to get it, I think you can swap out your cure for cure 2. And any other ability that you get. At least that's what I was thinking. I could be wrong though, b/c I haven't been reading up on how everything works. I like to just figure it out as the game progresses.

I dont see why a game has not come up with a concept of dealing with a no tank situation. From a monsters perspective running headlong into 3 dps and a healer would be painful so maybe doing more hit and run tactics which would work for a dps heavy situation. More dps but less time with the boss would make the time equal out and less time with the boss would equal less dmg output so the healer could cope.

With a tank give them more direct confrontation time but with a class that can hold it. And in the event of no healer the tank could make use of natually occuring events on the battle. Poitions, healing pools, barriers the boss has to break through to reach the tank and such. Similar to a pike wall or something. It would not be hard to tailor these events a bit to deal with the other situations that arise and also add a level of complexity.

I am sure trash mobs can be handled also. Maybe less strength when fought 1 on 1 with a control of the 4th or something.

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Originally Posted by fides5566

Tanker in Midgardsormr are as many as DPS. They are every where and steal my job!! D:

But, imo, tank is the most fun class to play in this game.

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I really don't see how tanking is boring. You need your head on a swivel, you need to know where everyone is at all times, is the enemy positioned correctly, am I exposing any of my party to AoE death, etc. All of that is running through my head as I do my best to not lose anyone. I tanked Brayflox for the first time today. A few brief warnings from a player that had done it before and we were off. Not one wipe. A couple of deaths, including me (damn AoE lag) from the dragon's poison breath, but the dragon only had a whisper left by that point and we won. I was Raised by my party, which is a way of indicating I did a good job (I guess), after the fight had ended. My party also helped. They weren't impatient, they let me mark, then followed by Sleeping the other marks and attacking the one I was.

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Originally Posted by Cobrauh

Are u sure u cant get cure 2? If you can level up your conj high enough to get it, I think you can swap out your cure for cure 2. And any other ability that you get. At least that's what I was thinking. I could be wrong though, b/c I haven't been reading up on how everything works. I like to just figure it out as the game progresses.

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You can't. Not all skills can be used by other classes, and Cure 2 is one of them. To know which classes and jobs can use a skill, just look at the lower part of it's tooltip (PLD, GLD, etc.)

I play a paladin and it's amazing.

If you want to enjoy, you need to harden up and grow the stones needed to tell the dps to back off when they are attacking wrong targets or attacking too soon. Burst threat does not exist; a flash is worth 4 autoattacks worth of enmity with shield oath up, which a DPS can overtake in a gcd of they attack a target you aren't attacking.

On single target, the vast majority of your threat is tied to rage of halone being combo-ed - it gives 10x the threat of the damage it does. Anyone going bullet agate before your first rage hits wants to be tanking; if they keep doing it, let them tank. People learn fast.

Single target, 90% of the time my pull is
Prepull: Rampart, Fight or Flight (30% damage increase)
Shield lob (4x damage enmity, 120 potency) ~480
-Spirits Within (2x damage enmity, 300 potency) ~600
Fast Blade (2x damage enmity, 150 potency) ~300
-Circle of Scorn (2x damage enmity, 100 potency) ~200
Savage Blade (6x damage enmity, 200 potency) ~1200
Rage of Halone (10x damage enmity, 260 potency) ~2600

For the record, flash is (4x enmity, 100 potency) ~400

Now, the numbers are just for comparison and ignore the strength modifier to damage, but you can see just how important getting that rage of halone is to your threat - rage of halone by itself is worth as much threat as _every other ability_ combined before it. As far as aoe gathering/holding goes, pld simply isn't as strong as warrior. That doesn't mean we're bad at it though; just means we have to approach it differently. Personally usually flash > circle > flash > go into a shield bash rotation for small numbers of targets. Shield bash doesn't give a lot of threat but it does give a lot of time to get threat.

As for not being in control of our personal survivability, I don't know how many abilities you want for that...

Rampart
Sentinel
Flash blind
Shield Bash
Convalescence
Hallowed Ground
Awareness

And from Marauder:
Foresight
Bloodbath (ok so this one sucks)
Mercy Stroke

You're right, we aren't going to live long against hard content without healers; nor should we.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

You can't. Not all skills can be used by other classes, and Cure 2 is one of them. To know which classes and jobs can use a skill, just look at the lower part of it's tooltip (PLD, GLD, etc.)

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Even if you could use cure 2 it costs alot of mp, so none DOM classes would run out very quickly, there is a reason CNJ gets the trait "freecure" because it's teaching you NOT to depend on cure 2 all the time.

Give me a tanking spec for Pugilist (Call it Black Belt, whatever) and I'll quit my real-life job and tank all day, every day. Heck, I'll even quit Scholar Healing in favor of Monk-tanking.

Make the AF look like this:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...-BlackBelt.png

i have stoped to play my pld for two reason:

- First the role of the paladin in group of 8 player, like Ifrit, if you have a warrior you are good for be there for interrupt and only interrupt.
- second, the speedrun, we spend 49 level to polish our skill at sweat and bleed for become better and all of this for?

it's frustrating to work that hard and get as only challenge to run into AK or use the stun for a whole fight. the tanking is perfect, fun and filled with challenge (especially in Duty finder) until you reach 50, where you normally must get really good challenge that will test the skill that you have worked soo hard to get... you have nothing.

another point, but it's my personal taste... the darklight armor is ugly... this big tincan is simply ugly... god, everything was better than this! the head don't move and make your character look weird all the time... and the most horrible is the armor of the drg, that is the look of an heavy armor!

at 50 your skill worth nothing, you will look ugly...why continue? what will make the tank think..."hey i have this to face later, that cool!!!"

ps: bloody hell no monk tanking please, nor ninja, anything but this... the final fantasy license have ton of jobs and class that can be made into tank... simply don't do this.

Well considering that most people will be using the Duty Finder it's not all that feasible to "avoid" bad dps or a bad healer. And yes you could find a solid group to play with but sometimes that isn't even possible due to scheduling conflicts and such. I'm only level 29 on my Gladiator.. I feel most like a warrior from WoW.. as far as switching between targets and such.. I do pretty good so far but I can see where the OP is coming from. I feel like if you've tanked in other games it could be annoying but you could make it work.. I feel bad for anybody grouping with someone who's never done it period but SE has done a pretty good job ramping up the difficulty in subsequent dungeons.. Hauk manner is my next place. I hear it starts to get a bit more "real" there lol

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i have stoped to play my pld for two reason:

- First the role of the paladin in group of 8 player, like Ifrit, if you have a warrior you are good for be there for interrupt and only interrupt.

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You can tank ifrit WHILE stunning if you are good, leaving an extra spot for DPS, leaving the marauder unnecessary altogether. Also, there is no reason why 2 plds can tank ifrit together; 2 marauders will have a much harder time. Eruptions can only occur at specific times, and you can get in more than enough damage for threat between needing to stop using abilities to be ready to stun. For example, he won't use it at all in the first 10%, leaving plenty of time to get a threat lead.

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- second, the speedrun, we spend 49 level to polish our skill at sweat and bleed for become better and all of this for?

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Speed runs are a systemic issue with the game that I have no doubt will be changed in some way. That's what you get when you combine a system that makes it more expensive to kill mobs than to sacrifice players to them to skip them with exorbitant repair bills and no logical benefit to killing the mobs in question.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

i have stoped to play my pld for two reason:

another point, but it's my personal taste... the darklight armor is ugly... this big tincan is simply ugly... god, everything was better than this! the head don't move and make your character look weird all the time... and the most horrible is the armor of the drg, that is the look of an heavy armor!

at 50 your skill worth nothing, you will look ugly...why continue? what will make the tank think..."hey i have this to face later, that cool!!!"

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I agree, it the worst looking armor in the game. It make you walk weird and your character look very abnormal when performing skills. It kinda remind me of the Wizard of Oz the Tin Man armor. I'm just hoping the Artifact 2 will look better.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

I agree, it the worst looking armor in the game. It make you walk weird and your character look very abnormal when performing skills. It kinda remind me of the Wizard of Oz the Tin Man armor. I'm just hoping the Artifact 2 will look better.

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AF2 is bright white with blue trimming. I have only the hands, but they look amazing.