I thought the solo duties were frustrating...

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Because i have too much experience about the game i guess?

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You certainly got too much something, sugar.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Okay we're now talking about things that matter.

Being able to clear this solo duty has very little to do with one's competence to engage in group content. What is it actually measuring? Ping? As I have said, my friend has cleared everything through 90, usually with duty support. She plays a couple of jobs well enough not to be a drain when playing with others.

I completely agree there's a problem that many people at level 100 don't understand the basics of their job. They therefore have a negative impact when engaging in group content. But gating through duties is not the way to solve the issue. And (somewhat orthogonally) simply making dungeons, trials and raids faster with the same monotonous DDR philosophy is driving some people from the game because it is boring combat design, while clipping off older people due purely to the increasing speed. Something that is massively magnified by bad ping which in turn is an accident of geography.

Here's an idea. You will likely agree that in leveling dungeons, it is the expectation of the player base that tanks pull W2W. Where does one learn this? Should this not be gated? I'd suggest the obvious place to gate ability is in job/role quests. If someone cannot play tank in the way the players expect, they are prevented from doing through a role quest. They either learn or they play another job. Same applies to healers and dps.

The problem at the moment is that bizarre and irrelevant solo duties are gating people from the MSQ for no good reason.

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Being able to clear solo duties shows that you yourself are able to meaningfully contribute. I’m not directing this directly at your friend but just in general this game hides how poorly people perform. If you are playing a WHM and kinda just face rolling your keyboard and the WAR is doing 90% of their own self healing you can feel like you are “contributing” when really you are just kinda there. Same as if they were a DPS. How are they aware they are meaningfully contributing? It’s very easy to feel like you are doing your rotation semi correctly only to be told that you are being out DPS’ed by the healer.

If you feel like you are meaningfully contributing in a group setting but are getting walled by solo duties there is a good chance the game is simply hiding your lack of contribution. There needs to be checks every now and then that YOU are reaching the adequate competence level, not that collective group is

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Being able to clear solo duties shows that you yourself are able to meaningfully contribute. I’m not directing this directly at your friend but just in general this game hides how poorly people perform. If you are playing a WHM and kinda just face rolling your keyboard and the WAR is doing 90% of their own self healing you can feel like you are “contributing” when really you are just kinda there. Same as if they were a DPS. How are they aware they are meaningfully contributing? It’s very easy to feel like you are doing your rotation semi correctly only to be told that you are being out DPS’ed by the healer.

If you feel like you are meaningfully contributing in a group setting but are getting walled by solo duties there is a good chance the game is simply hiding your lack of contribution. There needs to be checks every now and then that YOU are reaching the adequate competence level, not that collective group is

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I mean, I sort of agree with you, but: 1. who determines that minimum level of competence; 2. does it matter provided that MSQ group content can be completed with NPCs? (Like you can make a case for content being gated when playing with other players.)

I'm really disturbed by the idea that people can play this game for years, get invested (both emotionally and financially) in their character, the story, and communal activities with their friends, then this huge hand comes down a la Monty Python and a voice booms: "Thou Shalt Not Pass."

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I mean, I sort of agree with you, but: 1. who determines that minimum level of competence; 2. does it matter provided that MSQ group content can be completed with NPCs? (Like you can make a case for content being gated when playing with other players.)

I'm really disturbed by the idea that people can play this game for years, get invested (both emotionally and financially) in their character, the story, and communal activities with their friends, then this huge hand comes down a la Monty Python and a voice booms: "Thou Shalt Not Pass."

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The minimum competence is set at “can complete x solo duty”, if you are failing solo duties on very easy then the devs obviously think that your level of competence isn’t worth designing for (again in the nicest way possible). You can just as well ask the reverse question, how do you design a game around not having a skill floor

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

2. does it matter provided that MSQ group content can be completed with NPCs?

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What is the point of a video game with combat, if you can't fail?
Maybe a game where you can fail and die(with no punishment what so ever) is not the right thing for you, i am sure there are a lot of video games that provide no challenge at all.

You should be able to carry your own weight in a multiplayer game. You can say that does it matter if a duty takes 10 minutes or 25 minutes? maybe you don't care but your party members might care.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The minimum competence is set at “can complete x solo duty”, if you are failing solo duties on very easy then the devs obviously think that your level of competence isn’t worth designing for (again in the nicest way possible). You can just as well ask the reverse question, how do you design a game around not having a skill floor

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Depends what you think 14 is, I guess. If it's really "story-driven," I don't see it needs a skill floor, but personally I would find a game without one dull. We are the Warrior of Light after all; it makes sense we should blap stuff.

I mostly play PvP and have concluded the devs have no idea what they're doing, so I'm not inclined to regard their determination of an appropriate skill floor as being written on stone tablets.

I've also never understood why skilled players complain about MSQ combat being a snooze-fest. Isn't this why you guys get all the extra stuff that casuals don't do? I may be missing something here, but it comes across as gating for no other reason than to boot out paying customers with whom you will never interact. It's consistent with historic gamer nerd culture, but not helpful in a game that attempts to appeal to a wide spectrum of players.

That said, I agree with you that players engaging in combat with other players should pull their weight, hence my suggestion for gating via job/role quests.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Depends what you think 14 is, I guess. If it's really "story-driven," I don't see it needs a skill floor, but personally I would find a game without one dull. We are the Warrior of Light after all; it makes sense we should blap stuff.

I mostly play PvP and have concluded the devs have no idea what they're doing, so I'm not inclined to regard their determination of an appropriate skill floor as being written on stone tablets.

I've also never understood why skilled players complain about MSQ combat being a snooze-fest. Isn't this why you guys get all the extra stuff that casuals don't do? I may be missing something here, but it comes across as gating for no other reason than to boot out paying customers with whom you will never interact. It's consistent with historic gamer nerd culture, but not helpful in a game that attempts to appeal to a wide spectrum of players.

That said, I agree with you that players engaging in combat with other players should pull their weight, hence my suggestion for gating via job/role quests.

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People don’t complain about the MSQ content being boring they complain about the general endgame casual content being boring because they cater to people who can’t do the solo duties, that was basically the dev philosophy behind such heavy hitters as “fell court of Troia” and “thelia”

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

People don’t complain about the MSQ content being boring they complain about the general endgame casual content being boring because they cater to people who can’t do the solo duties, that was basically the dev philosophy behind such heavy hitters as “fell court of Troia” and “thelia”

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Not following. They might find the endgame casual content boring, but casuals don't. I just ran an alt through Troia, it's bloody difficult for me.

Casual content is just that; casual. For those that want something more challenging, there are plenty of options. The fact some giggling dev on 18ms ping decides to screw over people who've played for years strikes me as sadistic.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Not following. They might find the endgame casual content boring, but casuals don't. I just ran an alt through Troia, it's bloody difficult for me.

Casual content is just that; casual. For those that want something more challenging, there are plenty of options. The fact some giggling dev on 18ms ping decides to screw over people who've played for years strikes me as sadistic.

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You also have to understand you are not the only type of “causal”

I have many friends who are “casuals” by their own admission, won’t touch extreme or harder content with a 10 foot pole but found every piece of EW’s casual content so easy they felt insulted by it and they welcome what DT has currently done so far to casual content

Are they any less “right” than you are. The devs might just see them as the more important demographic

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

You also have to understand you are not the only type of “causal”

I have many friends who are “casuals” by their own admission, won’t touch extreme or harder content with a 10 foot pole but found every piece of EW’s casual content so easy they felt insulted by it and they welcome what DT has currently done so far to casual content

Are they any less “right” than you are. The devs might just see them as the more important demographic

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It's quite clear the devs do see that demographic as more important. If this trend continues, it will lock out an increasing fraction of players. It is not a question of right or wrong. One path keeps a subset of players slightly happier. The other kicks people from the game. When that latter group includes friends I've played with for years here and elsewhere, I will complain. Noisily, as you've doubtless noticed.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

They might find the endgame casual content boring, but casuals don't.

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I'm a casual and I find it very boring. Casual doesn't mean braindead, I just don't care to commit more time to a single fight. You can still have challenging content that doesn't punish your learning phase too harshly and allows you to recover and puts more responsability on personal mechanics instead of body checks.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

It's quite clear the devs do see that demographic as more important. If this trend continues, it will lock out an increasing fraction of players. It is not a question of right or wrong. One path keeps a subset of players slightly happier. The other kicks people from the game. When that latter group includes friends I've played with for years here and elsewhere, I will complain. Noisily, as you've doubtless noticed.

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What about people quit because the content they do is boring

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What about people quit because the content they do is boring

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Sound stupid, but that happens a lot more than you think, especialy during MSQ because the game offers no challenge, i have had at least three frinds not getting bejond Stormblood because they got so bored.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I have cleared it. The House Mother of my FC has not. She knows precisely what to do, and cannot do it fast enough, probably because very easy mode is borked.

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Which part is she struggling with? Nothing in that fight happens particularly fast and on Very Easy she should be able to get nailed with multiple AOEs and live.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

It's quite clear the devs do see that demographic as more important. If this trend continues, it will lock out an increasing fraction of players. It is not a question of right or wrong. One path keeps a subset of players slightly happier. The other kicks people from the game. When that latter group includes friends I've played with for years here and elsewhere, I will complain. Noisily, as you've doubtless noticed.

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That "subset of players" is in truth the vast majority of players and their feedback on the changes has been resoundingly positive. The real subset is the small fraction of players who are brick walled by normal or very easy content, but even then they're only getting "kicked out of the game" if they choose to give up. I don't mean to sound harsh but if a paraplegic can do perfect runs of Sekiro and a literal blind man can win tournament matches of Street Fighter 6 then these people can clear normal mode MMO content if they really put their mind to it. There are plenty of resources and people out there willing to help as well.

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

But that's the thing, it doesn't matter, as long as it works. But in this case, it obviously doesn't work.

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I'd be inclined to agree but you're forgetting that the player specifically mentioned their disabilities and why clicking works better and is preferable for them, yet people continue trying to tell them they're in the wrong...

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Originally Posted by Voryn

I wonder if you’re also accidentally making things too hard by spreading yourself too thin mentally. There’s no time limit to kill the boss so you’re not obligated to hit the boss properly (or even at all) while doing mechanics that take a lot of focus for you. Even when there are time limits in more difficult raids, it’s normal for people to not worry about hitting the boss perfectly during a mechanic until after they’re gotten more comfortable doing it.

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And then you'll have all those people that will scream after or during dungeon runs that and I quote the most usual lines "I'm paired with a curebot" or "My DPS are dealing less damage than the healer". There is no winning with this community.

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Originally Posted by innis31

The confusion mechanic really blows during that one DT dungeon that's the only mechanic that has made me rage quit a dungeon.

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Not saying that you're not doing it or this will actually help you if you're not, but when confusion mechanics start, the best way to deal with them is to first stop moving, then small tap to move forward to do tiny steps until you're going into the right direction then you fully lock forward until you have to turn, then stop and repeat the process. Hope it helps...

Not gonna lie out of all the DDR mechanics this one is one I find amusing and mild, but I'd kill to have confusion debuffs back where they make you hit your allies with actual nasty auto attack damage.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

People don’t complain about the MSQ content being boring they complain about the general endgame casual content being boring because they cater to people who can’t do the solo duties, that was basically the dev philosophy behind such heavy hitters as “fell court of Troia” and “thelia”

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Not gonna lie this sometimes makes me wish the basic dungeon content was more difficult (but definitely casual), even the msq content, but either:

1) only on roulettes with cranked up difficulty

or

2) with duty support being the mode where it can just play itself for anyone to clear, and the possibility to bring your friends in duty support mode as well (like 2 players + 2 NPCs etc).

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Originally Posted by Valence

And then you'll have all those people that will scream after or during dungeon runs that and I quote the most usual lines "I'm paired with a curebot" or "My DPS are dealing less damage than the healer". There is no winning with this community.

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You can win plenty by specifically asking for help (PF, FC) insted of joining Duty Finder with random people when you know your playstyle is not how people commonly run dungeons just like everybody else does when they want to do something different than the "usual".

But everytime this is suggested it falls on deaf ears...

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Originally Posted by Moqi

You can win plenty by specifically asking for help (PF, FC) insted of joining Duty Finder with random people when you know your playstyle is not how people commonly run dungeons just like everybody else does when they want to do something different than the "usual".

But everytime this is suggested it falls on deaf ears...

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You're aware that this can be applied to both ends of the spectrum right?

If you're expecting everybody in your party play their jobs competently (competently means a minority of the playerbase with people doing competent and informed rotations and high damage), then you'll likely be better off opening a dedicated PF for it. Or hell, go for a 3 DPS + Tank comp which is objectively better.
If you suck so much that you can't even keep aggro or deal a single damage spell as a healer, ore more likely that you keep dying to the same mechanics again and again, you can indeed as you say ask your FC to help you as well since you will probably prevent clearance of the dungeon or dramatically hamper your chances at it.

But the reality is that the big majority of players you'll be paired with for dungeons do not play well, some will use Cure 1 and pepper some damage spells here and there, some DPS will do lower damage than support jobs, and they'll make your run longer by 2 or 3 minutes for it, but you'll clear the content. If you can't deal with that and want to continue complaining about people being "bad at the game" while running said content, I don't know what to tell you. Your DF will be soon dead if you only expect competent people to queue for it.

The reality is that the majority of runs are just "say hello, pull w2w, say tfyp and leave" and they run smoothly or with very minor hiccups and the majority of players is competent enough to do just that. There's no need to paint me as some hardcore, min maxed obssesed person because my profile is public and you can see I don't even do Extreme Trials.

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If you suck so much that you can't even keep aggro or deal a single damage spell as a healer you can indeed as you say ask your FC to help you as well.

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Well this thread was made by such a person so I don't even know why you're trying to argue with me at this point. You're just getting defensive for no reason since we agree!?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Well this thread was made by such a person so I don't even know why you're trying to argue with me at this point. You're just getting defensive for no reason since we agree!?

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If they have problems focusing on all the things happening in a fight , why would they pick a healer to play, that is the most disracting job to do, because you must focus on the party AND the fight.

Healer actually isn't a bad idea if they can get carried. They can just follow the dorito and spam heals without making the fight take too long.

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Originally Posted by Valence

Not saying that you're not doing it or this will actually help you if you're not, but when confusion mechanics start, the best way to deal with them is to first stop moving, then small tap to move forward to do tiny steps until you're going into the right direction then you fully lock forward until you have to turn, then stop and repeat the process. Hope it helps...

Not gonna lie out of all the DDR mechanics this one is one I find amusing and mild, but I'd kill to have confusion debuffs back where they make you hit your allies with actual nasty auto attack damage.

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Yea that works best when the floor's not flooded with death and you only have 3 narrow zigzag paths to safety.

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Originally Posted by innis31

The confusion mechanic really blows during that one DT dungeon that's the only mechanic that has made me rage quit a dungeon.

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welp..

https://imgur.com/tiP8PA0

the pointy hand above your head rotates a lot slower than usual for this mechanic, first of al don't panic move, just wait for it to point in the right direction and push both mouse buttons to move.

I will guess your experience comes down to your UI.

For example, you need to ensure that the boss cast bar that shows its next attack is right underneath your characer and at its maximum size of 200% so that you never miss an attack casting.

My advice is search you tube for videos on editing your FFXIV HUD to find out whats important.

I know what you're saying except for the finger rotation but on controller it feels more difficult then it should be.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I'm a casual and I find it very boring. Casual doesn't mean braindead, I just don't care to commit more time to a single fight. You can still have challenging content that doesn't punish your learning phase too harshly and allows you to recover and puts more responsability on personal mechanics instead of body checks.

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Is it more interesting if you run it MINE or is the fight design the problem?

I can't relate to the braindead thing, since mine has to be fully engaged to clear MSQ content, at least soon after release.

At the risk of being Captain Obvious, the fundamental issue is everyone does the MSQ combat, and that means there's a huge range in skill level. So unless dungeons come with easy and hard modes, a large group of people are going to be unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Valence

I'd be inclined to agree but you're forgetting that the player specifically mentioned their disabilities and why clicking works better and is preferable for them, yet people continue trying to tell them they're in the wrong...

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How was I "forgetting", when I specifically wrote this in the very same paragraph:

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

People with disabilities aren't lesser humans, and accessibility options are important, but the game itself cannot cater down so low that there stops being any discernible gameplay.

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FF14 is an action combat MMORPG. Combat happens in real time, with every class at max level having around 30 individually executable actions, some classes more, some classes less. Further, movement is independent of and concurrent with those executable actions, and the game is designed, from the very start (even early monsters have aoes), with the expectation that the player will move during combat encounters. In fact, what people here often describe as "dance", is practically this skill expression of being able to move your character where it needs to be precisely when it needs to be there. Wrong movements can result in falling off the arena, resulting in ko. Or getting hit by boss abilities. In FF14, moving your character is part of the player skill!

There are other games, which have less buttons to press, have faster or slower combat, or even turn based one, where a player can't move around during combat etc. etc.. But FF14 is not one of those games. And you would think that after 100 levels, meaning base game + 5 expansions worth of content, with nearly a hundred or so dungeons and trials and raid encounters, one would have more than enough data to reliably judge whether this is the right game for them or not. The game makes no secret about how it's combat works from the very beginning.

Again, accessibility is important, but the point of accessibility is for people to be able to participate in the activity, not to skip the activity itself and go right to the finish line to get the rewards.

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Originally Posted by Valence

And then you'll have all those people that will scream after or during dungeon runs that and I quote the most usual lines "I'm paired with a curebot" or "My DPS are dealing less damage than the healer". There is no winning with this community.

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There is a pretty big different between someone having to focus on a mechanic, and someone not even bothering with their basic job kit even during times there isn't even a mechanic to dodge. "Curebot" doesn't describe healers who during hectic mechanic just focus on healing to get through it, it's used on those who just stand there all the time waiting for something to happen that they can heal, even though there is often nothing to heal. At best, they throw their single target damage skill, even when facing a mob group. And yes, DPS should do more damage in similar level / gear context. Why wouldn't someone who plays the DPS role, not actually want to be doing damage? What else can they contribute in the current game design? It's one thing to not do the perfect rotation all the time, but a too large portion of the community doesn't even have the drive to even try in the first place.

I was specifically replaying to the part where you said that "it doesn't matter since it works". I'm not actually in disagreement with the rest. I've even stated in other parts that I still think the game can cater to the lowest denominator and disabled players by adding more support notably through the duty support system, where it would literally bother nobody.

Out of curiosity, since when have you played XIV?

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Originally Posted by innis31

I know what you're saying except for the finger rotation but on controller it feels more difficult then it should be.

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I can't give you advice on controller, because i never use controllers unless i really have to for specific games,

what i mean is the white pointy finger above your head that rotates, on every other "Confusion" mechanic, this finger rotates about twice as fast, so for this boss they already made it easier than it ought to be.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Is it more interesting if you run it MINE or is the fight design the problem?

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It's the fight design mostly. ilvl is fine for leveling, the x0 could be stricter but I don't really care about the numbers. Ideally, it's the jobs that really need to change. I quite like the DDR style of FFXIV but I miss the risk-rewards and optimization you could squeeze out of jobs after they removed stance, MP and aggro management etc.

Trash isn't interesting. Bosses in DT seem more fun than usual because mechanics happen faster but it's still mostly more avoiding AoEs (they sure love half room cleaves this expansion). There are no more adds, there is nothing happening on the ground that isn't puddles...

I feel like Ramuh's orb management is still one of the most interesting mechanics they've created.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

It's the fight design mostly. ilvl is fine for leveling, the x0 could be stricter but I don't really care about the numbers. Ideally, it's the jobs that really need to change. I quite like the DDR style of FFXIV but I miss the risk-rewards and optimization you could squeeze out of jobs after they removed stance, MP and aggro management etc.

Trash isn't interesting. Bosses in DT seem more fun than usual because mechanics happen faster but it's still mostly more avoiding AoEs (they sure love half room cleaves this expansion). There are no more adds, there is nothing happening on the ground that isn't puddles...

I feel like Ramuh's orb management is still one of the most interesting mechanics they've created.

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Okay, thanks. In that sense, I completely agree with you that fight design is boring. It's just that for me it's tedious and difficult, rather than just tedious.

Really can't understand why they don't do more with trash mobs. There were some neat ideas in ARR. I've heard people claim it's because players complained dungeons were taking too long, but I'm not sure the solution to that is to make trash the identical sandwich filling between bosses in every dungeon.

Bro like being lvl 100 is hard.....

Your literally a veteran on battle field and this is hard my god XD im glad ur not playing in unreal and ex u would be holding ur team back.

Anyway here some tips to make thesr runs easier ao listen up and pay attention.

1. Learn your class that is the most important thing.

2. Meld your gear. Your low dps is also an added problem why fights take longer and u suffer longer.

3. Buy food that helps allot for your class.

4. Look at guides if needed.

5. Finally understand the name of mechanics to avoid them.

As a healer I feel the solo duties frustrating because NPCs are not in Party List. I'm a controller player and I can soft-target party members using D-pad in normal duties, but it is difficult for me to target non-party members without macros.

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Originally Posted by Mikoko_Miko

As a healer I feel the solo duties frustrating because NPCs are not in Party List. I'm a controller player and I can soft-target party members using D-pad in normal duties, but it is difficult for me to target non-party members without macros.

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Actually u can also use f1-f4 to target them I have tried it and party list works for that just fine

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

Actually u can also use f1-f4 to target them I have tried it and party list works for that just fine

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It depends on the quest

The older quests (like say the sub 60 job quests) you can’t target them properly on controller

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Originally Posted by Mikoko_Miko

As a healer I feel the solo duties frustrating because NPCs are not in Party List. I'm a controller player and I can soft-target party members using D-pad in normal duties, but it is difficult for me to target non-party members without macros.

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I have a custom filter for NPCs only and still target with the D-pad (left-right). It's not as quick as scrolling through the party list but it's still pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It depends on the quest

The older quests (like say the sub 60 job quests) you can’t target them properly on controller

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I dont use a controller i use keyboard & mouse

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Originally Posted by Valence

I've even stated in other parts that I still think the game can cater to the lowest denominator and disabled players by adding more support notably through the duty support system, where it would literally bother nobody.

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And that is where we disagree, I don't think the game should cater to such a low denominator. For the simple fact that this is an MMO. It's popular to throw the "oh the dungeon will just take 2-3 minutes more" argument around, which when doing thousands of dungeons, adds up quite a lot of time for no good reason. Further, it's vastly underestimating how much an an impact just 2 barely functioning players can have. The dungeon won't take 2-3 minutes more, it will take 8 minutes more, or sometimes the dungeon will take half an hour because the group keeps wiping on the last boss in an expert dungeon because neither the tank nor the healer have managed learn anything despite a basegame and 5 expansions worth of content and double digit jobs at lvl 100. The difference between someone making a bit of an effort, and 100% savage level effort, is around 40-80%. The difference between "barely functioning" and "a bit of an effort" is 100-200%. That's what makes this all so infuriating. No one is asking for hyper optimized rotations in some dungeon content, but this expectation of having to have sympathy for people who are overwhelmed with 4 buttons and 3 mechanics in a solo duty is stretching any definition of tolerance. The point of any activity, is the activity itself. The point of tennis, is playing tennis. Someone who can't hold the rack, is unable to even tell the ball from the background, and has trouble just getting up from a chair to get to the court, is maybe trying to play the wrong sport. And it would be one heck of a weird discussion that somehow the rules of tennis should be changed, because that would just turn it into a different sport.

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Originally Posted by Zakuyia

I dont use a controller i use keyboard & mouse

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And the person you replied to saying “use f1-f4” plays on controller

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Originally Posted by AllenThyl

And that is where we disagree, I don't think the game should cater to such a low denominator. For the simple fact that this is an MMO. It's popular to throw the "oh the dungeon will just take 2-3 minutes more" argument around, which when doing thousands of dungeons, adds up quite a lot of time for no good reason. Further, it's vastly underestimating how much an an impact just 2 barely functioning players can have. The dungeon won't take 2-3 minutes more, it will take 8 minutes more, or sometimes the dungeon will take half an hour because the group keeps wiping on the last boss in an expert dungeon because neither the tank nor the healer have managed learn anything despite a basegame and 5 expansions worth of content and double digit jobs at lvl 100. The difference between someone making a bit of an effort, and 100% savage level effort, is around 40-80%. The difference between "barely functioning" and "a bit of an effort" is 100-200%. That's what makes this all so infuriating. No one is asking for hyper optimized rotations in some dungeon content, but this expectation of having to have sympathy for people who are overwhelmed with 4 buttons and 3 mechanics in a solo duty is stretching any definition of tolerance. The point of any activity, is the activity itself. The point of tennis, is playing tennis. Someone who can't hold the rack, is unable to even tell the ball from the background, and has trouble just getting up from a chair to get to the court, is maybe trying to play the wrong sport. And it would be one heck of a weird discussion that somehow the rules of tennis should be changed, because that would just turn it into a different sport.

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That's nice and all but... why are we talking about dungeons taking 2-3 min more now? You're aware the quote you're replying to is literally about duty support, right?

( also if you're being that "infuriated", or mad, or whatever distress it causes you over an online game, maybe you have those anger issues checked? )

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

And the person you replied to saying “use f1-f4” plays on controller

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You can always hook up a keyboard to use.