Will DRG and PLD still be next to useless in 2.0?

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Originally Posted by Req

For someone that is bitching about how other jobs are useless compared to others you sure are doing your damndest to defend the jobs that are more used no matter what evidence is presented to you showing these "niche jobs" are not niche at all and are incredibly viable if not superior in many situations.

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Admitting mistake isn't the easiest thing to do yo.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

^ This lol.

While I agree with a large portion of what you said I have to dissagree with this. I've always found WAR to be superior during moogles, even more so since they droped the TP cost on WW.
The only fights I can think of off hand that matter where PLD seems to be prefered are Ifrit Extreme and 17 min speed run Chimera.

Yeah but it took the people in your DRG video 3 min it takes the people in my BLM video only 2.

Why bother killing the clones imo, just burn the boss.

I've done them hunderades of times too, based on our XIVpads profiles we seem pretty on par with eachother. So it's not like I'm not equally informed.

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You have various classes at 50, one would think you would have experienced many situations in a party to understand what I'm talking about. If you can kill something easier and more efficiently then why not take that route.

Easy mode is lazy and not necessarily the easier or best way. If it meant that it was then my post would make absolutely no sense. Lol! Use your brain and think Mijin lol

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Originally Posted by Req

For someone that is bitching about how other jobs are useless compared to others you sure are doing your damndest to defend the jobs that are more used no matter what evidence is presented to you showing these "niche jobs" are not niche at all and are incredibly viable if not superior in many situations.

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I'm just showing my evidence to support why I think your arguments are moot. I can only guess that the people getting angry are doing so because they either love to troll or love DRG and/or PLD with a passion.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

That's what we were talking about. He was saying you needed a DRG to kill the clones fast enough I was saying you don't and that they can be later ignored altogether with blms in the party because garuda will be low enough before they respawn.

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Garuda was low enough because they got an easy cycle of skills, not because BLM can do it faster. Getting south winds as the second skill is very lucky and you can DPS her so much in that phase. That's why by the time Garuda summoned the sisters for the 2nd time they were able to burn her down. This has nothing to do with having BLMs, just that they got south winds that lets you DD much more than the other two.

I would also like to point out that I never said a Dragoon is needed, I said that it is just a more viable addition to the party over having another warrior because it has much much higher single target DPS for attacking Garuda, and the magic resistant clone without sacrificing AoEs.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

Where did you even get this information? By the way, It's definitely safe to say that for DRG's lack of single target damage compared to MNK, they definitely make up for it in their AoE damage.

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Block since it's inception in this game has never procced on a Weapon Skill. I would love to be proven wrong but I've never seen it happen.

Also this information is based on the fact that block rates get significantly lower the higher the monster's level is. It was made a little better a few patches ago but it's still fairly low (using Vintage Kite Shield+1).

I'm not saying that PLD's can't keep hate as well as WARs. I'm saying that since WARs can deal more damage they contribute more to the overall goal while doing their job. Which in the end gives them the edge.

Divine Veil doesn't help much when most mobs are spamming Weapon Skills. This goes back to the first point.

Whether or not PLD doesn't have to gear up HP is debatable. What isn't is the fact that PLD's HP is too low.

PLDs can indeed us Bloodbath but unfortunately they rarely do enough damage with their WS to get a good drain off. There are too few mobs where PLD gets good damage in (Spirits Within not included). Aside from Riot Blade and Spirits Within their WS are pretty weak. I'm sure you can drain on Riot Blade but can you drain on Spirits Within <- Honest question, I haven't tried it.

Now don't get me wrong. As I said before, I love PLD and want so bad to go back to using it over WAR but there aren't many situations where that's better. I'm hoping 2.0 changes that.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

Garuda was low enough because they got an easy cycle of skills, not because BLM can do it faster. Getting south winds as the second skill is very lucky and you can DPS her so much in that phase. That's why by the time Garuda summoned the sisters for the 2nd time they were able to burn her down. This has nothing to do with having BLMs, just that they got south winds that lets you DD much more than the other two.

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Yeah I guess that could be the case. I'd like to actually do first hand testing parsing DRG vs my BLM.

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Originally Posted by Req

I would also like to point out that I never said a Dragoon is needed, I said that it is just a more viable addition to the party over having another warrior because it has much much higher single target DPS for attacking Garuda, and the magic resistant clone without sacrificing AoEs.

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I would like to see some parsing done for this too. I've seen war's who are fully geared for it do some amazing dps...

Pfft, I can clean the house with my DRG anyday.. when it comes down to it.. it comes down to skill on the job, PLD can outbeat WAR anyday if the skill is there. :P

When it boils down to it.. Have fun with your Favorite class change if you "really" need to. You can play as any job you desire theres probably going to be over 100k people on Launch day of ARR.

Not even gonna justify this with an argument

PLD is a great tank

You sir need to find yourself a good PLD tank !

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Yeah I guess that could be the case. I'd like to actually do first hand testing parsing DRG vs my BLM.


I would like to see some parsing done for this too. I've seen war's who are fully geared for it do some amazing dps...

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Go level your Dragoon and you can test it for yourself. You can basically spam weaponskills that do double the damage of anything warrior has to offer because dragoon is a tp power house.

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Originally Posted by TimonLoon

Block since it's inception in this game has never procced on a Weapon Skill. I would love to be proven wrong but I've never seen it happen.
You must be pointing your back at the boss then, since Block is easier to proc than parry.

Also this information is based on the fact that block rates get significantly lower the higher the monster's level is. It was made a little better a few patches ago but it's still fairly low (using Vintage Kite Shield+1).
(Block rate is trash on a PLD. You can force block so often that Block will trump Block rate at any instance when playing PLD.)

I'm not saying that PLD's can't keep hate as well as WARs. I'm saying that since WARs can deal more damage they contribute more to the overall goal while doing their job. Which in the end gives them the edge.
PLD can technically deal near as much damage to a Boss as warrior, and if you need two WHMs on WAR tanking, PLD can easily do it with 1, which is why they can have better damage potential.

Divine Veil doesn't help much when most mobs are spamming Weapon Skills. This goes back to the first point.
Divine veil will block whenever something is on your front. If your paladin is smart, they can easily position themselves. If anything you can use Divine Veil during cover as well.

Whether or not PLD doesn't have to gear up HP is debatable. What isn't is the fact that PLD's HP is too low.
That's the thing though, it's not too low. If your paladin can't tank with 3.8k-4k HP, there is something wrong with either the WHM or the PLD.

PLDs can indeed us Bloodbath but unfortunately they rarely do enough damage with their WS to get a good drain off. There are too few mobs where PLD gets good damage in (Spirits Within not included). Aside from Riot Blade and Spirits Within their WS are pretty weak. I'm sure you can drain on Riot Blade but can you drain on Spirits Within <- Honest question, I haven't tried it.
You almost always use bloodbath on Spirits within because Spirits within usually does more damage than God's Bane.

Now don't get me wrong. As I said before, I love PLD and want so bad to go back to using it over WAR but there aren't many situations where that's better. I'm hoping 2.0 changes that.

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You haven't been in enough situations where PLD can do just as well, if not better (Garuda/Ifrit Extreme/Hamlet), than WAR.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

Yeah I guess that could be the case. I'd like to actually do first hand testing parsing DRG vs my BLM.

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Parsing almost every Garuda hard run I've done, I can tell you that a DRG does as much dmg as a BLM. There is however a few reasons why parse won't usually show this. First of all DRGs should be helping out with the plumes, while BLMs are practically worthless against the plumes. I mean, a MNK can easily out damage a BLM at garuda only because they can stay on her full time. So when you have monks to replace the BLMs, and then two dragoons to replace the two bards in that video, not only do the clones go down very fast but garuda can go down faster since DRG obviously does better damage than a bard, and MNKs can out damage black mages in most instances.

Pretty much, it currently stands that BLM is the easy way out of things right now. If you want even more efficiency, BLMs will not always be the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Madrox

Stupid people just don't understand, I feel bad for you.

I use melee DD for efficient and even better survivability at times. Does thinking outside the box hurt?

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Apparently, because most PUGs won't even do it.
I didn't say you're wrong, by the way; on the contrary I think you're probably right. But like you said, you need to thoroughly know wtf you're doing as a melee. Naturally people assume that you don't. PUGs are a gamble, mages are the safer bet compared to melee DD, so people tend to cram their parties full of BLM or cram the party altogether. Thinking outside of the box is great for LSs who can continue to work on their strategy, but for PUGs it's sadly more often just a good way to wipe.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

Apparently, because most PUGs won't even do it.
I didn't say you're wrong, by the way; on the contrary I think you're probably right. But like you said, you need to thoroughly know wtf you're doing as a melee. Naturally people assume that you don't. PUGs are a gamble, mages are the safer bet compared to melee DD, so people tend to cram their parties full of BLM or cram the party altogether. Thinking outside of the box is great for LSs who can continue to work on their strategy, but for PUGs it's sadly more often just a good way to wipe.

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I don't think anythings wrong with melee, It's just that I think personally MNK is always better than DRG. I'm not going to suggest that I know everything, but to be fair even If I'm not 100% correct, I think it's fair to say that MNK is better for more things than DRG.

DRG with ps3 is the best sustained dps period. There are countless parses out there to back this up.

Chardrizard said it the best: try experiencing an encounter before you pass judgement on it. It's like all the people watching the ifrit extreme video's thinking the encounter is easy and then QQ'ing on the forums when they actually do it.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

Apparently, because most PUGs won't even do it.
I didn't say you're wrong, by the way; on the contrary I think you're probably right. But like you said, you need to thoroughly know wtf you're doing as a melee. Naturally people assume that you don't. PUGs are a gamble, mages are the safer bet compared to melee DD, so people tend to cram their parties full of BLM or cram the party altogether. Thinking outside of the box is great for LSs who can continue to work on their strategy, but for PUGs it's sadly more often just a good way to wipe.

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Good point, usually do things within the ls and among friends with the occasional pickup to fill in a spot. don't believe it would be an issue if people would focus a bit more on other classes and jobs.

You know I have seen a whm once say "I'm not good at healing but I'll be a great white mage", and many refuse to try things that take more than standing in a safe spot spamming thunder. Some of these people tend to cause wipes due to being squishy and can be one shot in some cases causing unnecessary interruptions for the whm. Can be a bit frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

DRG with ps3 is the best sustained dps period. There are countless parses out there to back this up.

Chardrizard said it the best: try experiencing an encounter before you pass judgement on it. It's like all the people watching the ifrit extreme video's thinking the encounter is easy and then QQ'ing on the forums when they actually do it.

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A maxed stat DD with over 1000 attack power and incredibly fast tp gain the best? What is this blasphemy.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

You haven't been in enough situations where PLD can do just as well, if not better (Garuda/Ifrit Extreme/Hamlet), than WAR.

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You're right Block does proc more than parry but you're missing the point of that statement. WAR can almost completely nullify a 1500-2000 damage hit on command if they time their Foresight/Feather Foot usage right (or even with a random parry proc). This is just not possible with PLD. Over the long run it's entirely possible that the PLD takes less damage than the WAR but the WAR is evading the hits that count (the ones that can down you).

That is completely dependent on the group. Unfortunately your experience/luck with getting decent people together doesn't apply to everyone that plays the game.

Again you are ignoring the big point. Blocks don't proc on WS. Having the mob in front of you w/ Divine Veil means nothing to 100-Tonze/10-Tonze/<insert WS here>. Parries do proc on WS and can practically be done on command with Foresight. Honestly I don't even see your point here with the whole positioning comment and facing the mob... If the mob isn't in front of you as a PLD or WAR you're not doing your job so that doesn't apply.

You're right. If a PLD can't tank with 3.8k HP then they are doing something wrong. But how did that PLD get to 3.8k+ from the norm. See? The norm doesn't apply to you because you have a decent group. The norm is a full AF PLD with some decent accessories. That's about 3400-3500 after full party buff. Any simple ass WAR is standing around with 4k after that buff. It makes a big difference.

Ahh... I assumed it wouldn't work since it was magic damage. FFXI mentality. I'll definitely start using that now.

Definitely agree with you here. I did my first Hamlet run on WAR and switched to PLD right after. Far better experience... I haven't done Ifrit Extreme and I've only gotten Garuda down to 10% with PUGs. I need to find a group to down shit with. -_-;

Uhh what? I've played Dragoon in all of these activities and often.

Ifrit (Hard)
Ifrit (Extreme)
Moogle (Hard)
Garuda (Hard)
Miser's Mistress
Hamlet
Skirmish
Nael van Darnus
Strongholds

Seeing as that is roughly 90% of the games content I think Dragoons are doing just fine. They are on par with Monk and can even do better damage in certain situations (especially considering if the mob doesn't have a weakness to a element Monk doesn't have). The recent revamp of Dragoon make the job viable for almost all content. If your parties/linkshell doesn't use it then it's there fault because I play it all the time, and generally wherever I want with no problem.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

Parsing almost every Garuda hard run I've done, I can tell you that a DRG does as much dmg as a BLM. There is however a few reasons why parse won't usually show this. First of all DRGs should be helping out with the plumes, while BLMs are practically worthless against the plumes. I mean, a MNK can easily out damage a BLM at garuda only because they can stay on her full time. So when you have monks to replace the BLMs, and then two dragoons to replace the two bards in that video, not only do the clones go down very fast but garuda can go down faster since DRG obviously does better damage than a bard, and MNKs can out damage black mages in most instances.

Pretty much, it currently stands that BLM is the easy way out of things right now. If you want even more efficiency, BLMs will not always be the way to go.

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This, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

Apparently, because most PUGs won't even do it.
I didn't say you're wrong, by the way; on the contrary I think you're probably right. But like you said, you need to thoroughly know wtf you're doing as a melee. Naturally people assume that you don't. PUGs are a gamble, mages are the safer bet compared to melee DD, so people tend to cram their parties full of BLM or cram the party altogether. Thinking outside of the box is great for LSs who can continue to work on their strategy, but for PUGs it's sadly more often just a good way to wipe.

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This.


To me this represents a bigger problem inherent with the game though, not the players. Most melee I come in contact with dont know what they are doing and have problems dealing with AoE damage and Environmental damage. For this reason I think my biggest issue is the lack of ballance (in terms of survivability) of ranged vs melee. I think the damage outputs are fine, but they seriously need to beef up melee a bit to make them more viable to the average player, at least for 1.0. The only thing I have seen Melees not have a problem with is the Laser that Van Darnus fires. Once they know what to look for, melees have no trouble avoiding it. Where as someone I know that plays as monk will always get hit by traps in Ifrit. I cant decide what is the bigger reason for this: a seeming lack of lag, more than 1/2 a second to move, or more obvious visual clues, or possibly a combination of all 3? Whatever the case its working and is the most ballanced fight I have seen in terms of survival in ranged vs melee.

Im hoping that the new engine will ensure no lag in potential response time in 2.0 for moves that you MUST get out of the way for in 2.0. They also mentioned supplying something like a cast bar as a visual indicator too. Seems to me if they can integrate these 2 things well in 2.0, then this might make more people open and able to use melee for boss encounters. Having more than 1/2 a second to move probably wouldnt hurt either, but wouldnt be necessary if the other two were implemented well.

They have also mentioned recently that they want skill and gear to be about 50/50. If it works like I imagine that means that people would be just as able to make up for lack of gear with skill, as they were able to make up for lack of skill with gear. At least to some degree, this could help average/casual players become more viable in boss fights as well.

I think if SE addresses these issues it would help greatly to promote diversity of party set up and play styles with out the fear of constant wipes that lead to people wanting only certain party set ups.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

This.


To me this represents a bigger problem inherent with the game though, not the players. Most melee I come in contact with dont know what they are doing and have problems dealing with AoE damage and Environmental damage. For this reason I think my biggest issue is the lack of ballance (in terms of survivability) of ranged vs melee. I think the damage outputs are fine, but they seriously need to beef up melee a bit to make them more viable to the average player, at least for 1.0. The only thing I have seen Melees not have a problem with is the Laser that Van Darnus fires. Once they know what to look for, melees have no trouble avoiding it. Where as someone I know that plays as monk will always get hit by traps in Ifrit. I cant decide what is the bigger reason for this: a seeming lack of lag, more than 1/2 a second to move, or more obvious visual clues, or possibly a combination of all 3? Whatever the case its working and is the most ballanced fight I have seen in terms of survival in ranged vs melee.

Im hoping that the new engine will ensure no lag in potential response time in 2.0 for moves that you MUST get out of the way for in 2.0. They also mentioned supplying something like a cast bar as a visual indicator too. Seems to me if they can integrate these 2 things well in 2.0, then this might make more people open and able to use melee for boss encounters. Having more than 1/2 a second to move probably wouldnt hurt either, but wouldnt be necessary if the other two were implemented well.

They have also mentioned recently that they want skill and gear to be about 50/50. If it works like I imagine that means that people would be just as able to make up for lack of gear with skill, as they were able to make up for lack of skill with gear. At least to some degree, this could help average/casual players become more viable in boss fights as well.

I think if SE addresses these issues it would help greatly to promote diversity of party set up and play styles with out the fear of constant wipes that lead to people wanting only certain party set ups.

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The amount of people who truly have issues with server lag is minimal at best and I believe it has more to do with their side of things.

Also don't you think if people were given the opportunity to play melee more often to learn their job then it wouldn't even be an issue? This is the players and not the server. That is one of the reasons why LS tend to do well on content unlike pugs regardless of location.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Uhh what? I've played Dragoon in all of these activities and often.

Ifrit (Hard)
Ifrit (Extreme)
Moogle (Hard)
Garuda (Hard)
Miser's Mistress
Hamlet
Skirmish
Nael van Darnus
Strongholds

Seeing as that is roughly 90% of the games content I think Dragoons are doing just fine. They are on par with Monk and can even do better damage in certain situations (especially considering if the mob doesn't have a weakness to a element Monk doesn't have). The recent revamp of Dragoon make the job viable for almost all content. If your parties/linkshell doesn't use it then it's there fault because I play it all the time, and generally wherever I want with no problem.

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I just don't feel like its a valid argument to say "My friends let me come as this job so it's good." I mean sometimes one of my friends used to come to CC as a naked(literally no gear) DRG, that doesn't mean I wanted him too. He did it because he had a silly personality and had enough skill to make it through a CC run as a naked drg with no gear.

I feel that you can make it through any content with people on any class as long as you have the right rolls, I just don't agree that drg is on par with MNK. You cant say I'm biased either because I've refused to level either of those classes and will continue to refuse to do so until all my DoL and DoH are 50, which will be soon regrettably.

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Originally Posted by Amsai

This.


To me this represents a bigger problem inherent with the game though, not the players. Most melee I come in contact with dont know what they are doing and have problems dealing with AoE damage and Environmental damage. For this reason I think my biggest issue is the lack of ballance (in terms of survivability) of ranged vs melee. I think the damage outputs are fine, but they seriously need to beef up melee a bit to make them more viable to the average player, at least for 1.0. The only thing I have seen Melees not have a problem with is the Laser that Van Darnus fires. Once they know what to look for, melees have no trouble avoiding it. Where as someone I know that plays as monk will always get hit by traps in Ifrit. I cant decide what is the bigger reason for this: a seeming lack of lag, more than 1/2 a second to move, or more obvious visual clues, or possibly a combination of all 3? Whatever the case its working and is the most ballanced fight I have seen in terms of survival in ranged vs melee.

Im hoping that the new engine will ensure no lag in potential response time in 2.0 for moves that you MUST get out of the way for in 2.0. They also mentioned supplying something like a cast bar as a visual indicator too. Seems to me if they can integrate these 2 things well in 2.0, then this might make more people open and able to use melee for boss encounters. Having more than 1/2 a second to move probably wouldnt hurt either, but wouldnt be necessary if the other two were implemented well.

They have also mentioned recently that they want skill and gear to be about 50/50. If it works like I imagine that means that people would be just as able to make up for lack of gear with skill, as they were able to make up for lack of skill with gear. At least to some degree, this could help average/casual players become more viable in boss fights as well.

I think if SE addresses these issues it would help greatly to promote diversity of party set up and play styles with out the fear of constant wipes that lead to people wanting only certain party set ups.

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There is basically no content from 1-50 other then spamming leves or getting power leveled. The result is people that have no idea how to play their class/job correctly in a group environment where you are depended on to do your role.

SE wants this to continue in 2.0 where leveling is supposed to be even easier....

Imagine if they had level capped dungeons you had to do at lower levels to progress that were challenging for that level range which taught people how to play there class...... no wait that's silly ><

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I just don't agree that drg is on par with MNK. You cant say I'm biased either because I've refused to level either of those classes and will continue to refuse to do so until all my DoL and DoH are 50, which will be soon regrettably.

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You are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

There is basically no content from 1-50 other then spamming leves or getting power leveled. The result is people that have no idea how to play their class/job correctly in a group environment where you are depended on to do your role.

SE wants this to continue in 2.0 where leveling is supposed to be even easier....

Imagine if they had level capped dungeons you had to do at lower levels to progress that were challenging for that level range which taught people how to play there class...... no wait that's silly ><

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Well if anything else I wholeheartedly agree with you that what s/e plans to do in regards to the leveling process in 2.0 is an awful idea. They are obviously trying to target the audience of other MMO's but I think they are going a way to far outside of their audience.

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

You are wrong.

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In regards to this I seriously doubt it, but I really could care less if you think so anyway lol. It's not like you're going to change your opinion even if I showed you all the evidence in the world.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I just don't feel like its a valid argument to say "My friends let me come as this job so it's good." I mean sometimes one of my friends used to come to CC as a naked(literally no gear) DRG, that doesn't mean I wanted him too. He did it because he had a silly personality and had enough skill to make it through a CC run as a naked drg with no gear.

I feel that you can make it through any content with people on any class as long as you have the right rolls, I just don't agree that drg is on par with MNK. You cant say I'm biased either because I've refused to level either of those classes and will continue to refuse to do so until all my DoL and DoH are 50, which will be soon regrettably.

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Yeah no need for a real answer then. Also I don't come DRG because my friends "let me." I go Dragoon because I am skilled at the job, I know my rotations, and am consistently high on the dps charts all the time.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Yeah no need for a real answer then. Also I don't come DRG because my friends "let me." I go Dragoon because I am skilled at the job, I know my rotations, and am consistently high on the dps charts all the time.

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No need for a real answer because I haven't bothered leveling jobs that I don't need? The fact that every MNK I've ever played with out parses DRG isn't enough evidence? You're just saying harsh things because you're upset now, you know that's a silly argument.

It's a waste of effort and time trying to convince the glorymongers to believe that specific jobs are not inferior to others - no matter how much evidence they present.

Again, down-voting would put a simple and quick end to threads like these where players will never look at evidence contrary to their preconceptions, and keep misinformation from spreading.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

The fact that every MNK I've ever played with out parses DRG isn't enough evidence?

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No, that's just evidence that you play with poor DRGs, or that you're ignoring portions of your parses.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

It's a waste of effort and time trying to convince the glorymongers to believe that specific jobs are not inferior to others - no matter how much evidence they present.

Again, down-voting would put a simple and quick end to threads like these where players will never look at evidence contrary to their preconceptions, and keep misinformation from spreading.

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If they added a downvoting feature there would never be any threads up because 90% of the people only post to argue with people anyway. Make a thread called "The sky is blue" see what happens.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

No, that's just evidence that you play with poor DRGs, or that you're ignoring portions of your parses.

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Or it could also mean that the people who think they are doing so great on DRG could be playing with people who are poor players.

I personally have every bit of confidence of the people I play with, I tend to try not to subject my self to failure.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

If they added a downvoting feature there would never be any threads up because 90% of the people only post to argue with people anyway. Make a thread called "The sky is blue" see what happens.

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Good! Then it might teach people like you to change your tone before you make inflammatory threads.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I just don't feel like its a valid argument to say "My friends let me come as this job so it's good." I mean sometimes one of my friends used to come to CC as a naked(literally no gear) DRG, that doesn't mean I wanted him too. He did it because he had a silly personality and had enough skill to make it through a CC run as a naked drg with no gear.

I feel that you can make it through any content with people on any class as long as you have the right rolls, I just don't agree that drg is on par with MNK. You cant say I'm biased either because I've refused to level either of those classes and will continue to refuse to do so until all my DoL and DoH are 50, which will be soon regrettably.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Yeah no need for a real answer then. Also I don't come DRG because my friends "let me." I go Dragoon because I am skilled at the job, I know my rotations, and am consistently high on the dps charts all the time.

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The main reason why I always make decisions based on actual in game scenarios is this. ^

Person A: Although I don't have the said classes that I'm complaining about leveled, and/or ever actually use them, I'm going to complain that they are useless.

Person B: What do you mean useless? I main that class, deal huge damage, almost never die, and complete available engame content with it, just fine.

Person A: No you don't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

If they added a downvoting feature there would never be any threads up because 90% of the people only post to argue with people anyway. Make a thread called "The sky is blue" see what happens.

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Interesting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

In regards to this I seriously doubt it, but I really could care less if you think so anyway lol. It's not like you're going to change your opinion even if I showed you all the evidence in the world.

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I will provide just as many parses (where you are present) and videos (where you are present) that you have.... zero

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Good! Then it might teach people like you to change your tone before you make inflammatory threads.

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How is it Inflammatory? There is no reason for anyone to get offended by it, and there is no intention to offend. The purpose of the thread was to ask if there were changed coming to PLD and DRG in 2.0.

The only people who are offended are the people who love to argue and the people who have unrequited love for these classes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

How is it Inflammatory? There is no reason for anyone to get offended by it, and there is no intention to offend. The purpose of the thread was to ask if there were changed coming to PLD and DRG in 2.0.

The only people who are offended are the people who love to argue and the people who have unrequited love for these classes.

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Do you really need a comparison example between a properly created thread and yours? Your post is offensive to anyone who mains Paladin or Dragoon, regardless of whether it is mild enjoyment or unrequited love. You're basically telling them "You have no reason to be in this game, because you are next to useless."

Perhaps you're just not aware that callously throwing around buzzwords isn't kosher. I don't know, but I swear people should take a class in argumentative writing before being aloud to post on boards these days - and a downvote system would be a really good way to express that.

So let me go make that thread now.

In regards to the above post, I agree. If you wanted to ask if there were any changes in 2.0 for Paladin or Dragoon you probably should have reworded it.

Since you didn't ask without inferring that those two jobs are inferior:
The responses are not going to feed into a productive conversation revolving around the possibility of change or evolution in these jobs. Instead the responses have been focused on your mind set in regards to the jobs and how they are or are not useful or utilized.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

As it currently stands there are only a few niche boss encounters where PLD's are better utilized than WAR, and almost no conceivable situation that DRG is preferred over anything.

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Hello Mijin,
This statement makes me wonder how you have been experiencing end game content. I don't mean that in a bad way, but it seems that you have encountered very narrow minded points of view.

Paladin is an extremely useful tank. We utilize Paladin in every single end game venture we do.
- Chimera
- Garuda
- Moogle
- Cutter's Cry
- Aurum Vale
- Dzmael Darkhold
- Missions
- Skirmish
- Hamlet

As for Dragoons one of my LS Dragoon members is more capable on his Dragoon at putting out damage consistently than many Warriors I know. We ran a parser.
- Garuda (Plume Duty)
- Cutters Cry - Myradon Princess (Baby ant duty.)
- Missions
- Skirmish
- Aurum Vale
- Dzmael Darkhold
- Hamlet

Our WAR's and MNK's are normally utilized specifically for DD only. Though there are some really fun tactics to utilize them with as well, especially in Skirmish, Moogle and United We Stand.

Consider that there is another factor, player skill and gear. If you are not skilled at playing the job or are not properly geared, well it is easier to notice that difference on some jobs more than others.

There is also the possibility that whomever is asking you to go as a certain job may feel that you play it better than the other. I request that of my shell members all the time because I know what their strengths are and I trust them to perform on a certain level when I do that.

Sure there is job bias, always will be. There will be that one golden job that people think is the end all for any and all content. That is a very singular point of view and can really restrict a player on how to complete their objectives.

Perhaps you should be questioning the culture of your server or Linkshell rather then the strengths and usefulness of the Jobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meatdawg

I will provide just as many parses (where you are present) and videos (where you are present) that you have.... zero

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I was being hypothetical, I wasn't suggesting we should exchange evidence. I personally don't save parse logs I would assume you don't either and the only videos I have are of random things. I was just saying that you seem like the type of person who even if I had undeniable evidence to show you, you still wouldn't change your mind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eclipse

Hello Mijin,
This statement makes me wonder how you have been experiencing end game content. I don't mean that in a bad way, but it seems that you have encountered very narrow minded points of view.

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Well to be honest more than just my own personal experience, the general consensus of the elitist players who I've ever talked will be the first to say that drg sucks, pld good for something but most cases war is better.

I usually am not so open to share an opinion unless I have reputable people in agreement with me. The reflection of peoples opinions on the forums is usually not necessarily the opinion of the hard core end game community because more casuals post here than anything else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mijin

I was just saying that you seem like the type of person who even if I had undeniable evidence to show you, you still wouldn't change your mind.

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I DEMAND PROOF.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7hcepZUTy1qle2gr.gif

i don't think you and I are playing the same game OP. PLD and DRG have proven their usefulness time and time again. Not trying to brag, but you should see this guy (/me) in action. (/flex)

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

Yep, doing things the easy way is for stupid people.
I cut trees down with a fish because using a chainsaw is stupid.

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http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/galler...sh/sawfish.JPG