Wife unable to do alliance raid roulette once she hit 60.

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Originally Posted by Servebotfrank

Not sure why this thread was necro'd but this was changed recently again. You can only get barred from Alliance Roulette if you have UNLOCKED the most recent roulettes but don't have the right gear for them. Now if you are level 60, but do not have the HW raids unlocked for whatever reason (not there yet, don't feel like unlocking them, etc...) then you will just only queue into CT raids.

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I was unaware it changed again, this was just the only thread I was seeing on the issue that wasn't 5 years old. Still, that change doesn't actually solve the original issues and still causes the issues I and OP have experienced. That's why I suggested the solution I did, and intend to forward my suggestion to SE.

jus upgrade your gear bro, how hard can that be.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

jus upgrade your gear bro, how hard can that be.

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It is not hard but it is time consuming when they lock content away behind a item level door.



Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

It is not hard but it is time consuming when they lock content away behind a item level door.



Cheers

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go to marketboard, buy ilvl gear , done.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

go to marketboard, buy ilvl gear , done.

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Buying gear isn't always an option. Most gear on the market board is heavily overpriced, and getting a close equivalent from a vendor in the following expansion is almost as expensive. While this may not affect people who have found their niche for getting gil to pay for these things, it's not such an easy solution for anyone else, especially newer players and any trial players who mind you are locked at 300k with no access to the market board to begin with. The best method for players in that situation to get gear is through tomestones, and alliance raid roulette gives one of the higher amounts of tomestones per day.

Does this system still not factor in MSQ progression when setting the item level requirement.....???

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Does this system still not factor in MSQ progression when setting the item level requirement.....???

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According to Servebotfrank, it does now, but the way it seems to function seems backwards to me and how it should work in order to deal with the issue of players avoiding content.

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Originally Posted by Rika_Isshoku

According to Servebotfrank, it does now, but the way it seems to function seems backwards to me and how it should work in order to deal with the issue of players avoiding content.

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Exactly

Now we just go back to the problem that the normal raid roulette have where people have free access to the roulette only clearing CT and never unlocking anything else. Which is exactly not how it should work

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Exactly

Now we just go back to the problem that the normal raid roulette have where people have free access to the roulette only clearing CT and never unlocking anything else. Which is exactly not how it should work

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That's not what I proposed in my solution. My solution to the issue would be that the roulette would be locked off after reaching the parameters to do the unlock quests for new alliance raids, similar to how expert roulette functions. While this wouldn't prevent players from avoiding content afterwards, it at least forces them to give content a chance before writing it off for any reason.

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Originally Posted by Rika_Isshoku

That's not what I proposed in my solution. My solution to the issue would be that the roulette would be locked off after reaching the parameters to do the unlock quests for new alliance raids, similar to how expert roulette functions. While this wouldn't prevent players from avoiding content afterwards, it at least forces them to give content a chance before writing it off for any reason.

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Yes I agreed with you. I’m saying the current way it works now encourages newer players to simply not unlock anything else to force cheese the roulette which you pointed out is the problem

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Originally Posted by TheOperator3712

Not a bug, this is completely intended behavior. Your wife is level 60, therefore she needs HW gear to queue for AR Roulette. This is because people used to game the system by unequipping gear to guarantee that they would queue into one of the ARR ARs.

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Not that it's changed the odds too much because CT is required for MSQ while the other ones are not.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Yes I agreed with you. I’m saying the current way it works now encourages newer players to simply not unlock anything else to force cheese the roulette which you pointed out is the problem

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Ah, I misunderstood your tone and intent.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Nah, I'm fine with people being able to access alliance raid roulette with only Crystal Tower unlocked, and I say that as someone who cleared Mhach and Ivalice. Maybe instead of punishing people for not doing the other alliance raids, perhaps its better to look into WHY so many avoid unlocking that content like the plague (even on their alts), or why they were ilvl cheesing in the first place to warrant the changes we got, same with normal raids where some people unlock Alexander (and sometimes not even all of it) and then NOPE away from Omega and the rest.

Trying to force people into it is just going to end up with a lot of those players leaving in mass or requesting kicks, and if the request is refused they'll just drag their feet the whole time.

Hell, in my case I just outright stopped doing alliance/normal raid roulette at all because I didn't actually enjoy Mhach/Ivalice and Omega, and I don't want to run the risk of doing them synced ever again, and I'll probably avoid unlocking any raids from Shadowbringers and beyond unless doing them unsync is feasible.

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I avoid doing alliance roulettes mostly due to Nier (long boring shit) + CT cause it's so mind numbing. If I get Nier I just right down dip. I rather take 30 mins penalty than be locked in a crappy duty for 1+ hr.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

go to marketboard, buy ilvl gear , done.

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Farming the Gil for the market board is also time consuming.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Farming the Gil for the market board is also time consuming.


Cheers

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Buying crafted gear one patch behind the current crafted gear costs about 3 days worth of roulette money if you include seal profits

If that’s too high a bar then at that point do you just want them to give you limitless gear

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Farming the Gil for the market board is also time consuming.


Cheers

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How freaking lazy are you that you can't buy HW nq gear from MB?
Also, it's not the game's fault that someone reach lvl 60 without unlocking HW content and refuse to upgrade the gear. Sure, it's doable with leveling roulette, but that's not how it normally works.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

What are you smoking? That was totally the issue. It was one of the reasons I stopped queuing for that roulette.

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Then why is it still coming up just as much as it always did before the change? Because cheesing wasn't the thing that had the largest effect.

You know the big elephant in the room? It's required for the MSQ. You constantly get new people in it because of that. It's also the only one required for the MSQ so you get players who have only ever unlocked it.

Secondary reasons are that it's used in two relic questlines (and used to be three before Eureka Orthos). It is so favored by content that you're naturally going to see it the most in roulette.

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Originally Posted by Servebotfrank

Not sure why this thread was necro'd but this was changed recently again. You can only get barred from Alliance Roulette if you have UNLOCKED the most recent roulettes but don't have the right gear for them. Now if you are level 60, but do not have the HW raids unlocked for whatever reason (not there yet, don't feel like unlocking them, etc...) then you will just only queue into CT raids.

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Yep and this fixed the issue. If you can unlock the alliance raid, you have access to the tome gear needed for it. So until you can unlock the raid, you aren't held to the ilevel needed for it if you're on an accelerated server and end up far over leveled. My alt has finally been able to do the roulette again.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Nah, I'm fine with people being able to access alliance raid roulette with only Crystal Tower unlocked, and I say that as someone who cleared Mhach and Ivalice. Maybe instead of punishing people for not doing the other alliance raids, perhaps its better to look into WHY so many avoid unlocking that content like the plague (even on their alts), or why they were ilvl cheesing in the first place to warrant the changes we got, same with normal raids where some people unlock Alexander (and sometimes not even all of it) and then NOPE away from Omega and the rest.

Trying to force people into it is just going to end up with a lot of those players leaving in mass or requesting kicks, and if the request is refused they'll just drag their feet the whole time.

Hell, in my case I just outright stopped doing alliance/normal raid roulette at all because I didn't actually enjoy Mhach/Ivalice and Omega, and I don't want to run the risk of doing them synced ever again, and I'll probably avoid unlocking any raids from Shadowbringers and beyond unless doing them unsync is feasible.

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That's why I didn't propose to keep the ilevel restriction, only to restrict changing gear once you're in the duty (to fix the supposed stat exploit that was mentioned in another reply). If people are still willing to go to that extent to avoid content they subjectively hate, more power to them, I'd even suggest a filter if I didn't think it would backfire on the ability for new players and players who do enjoy it to get parties for that content, but this would at least incentivize players to try the content. Much of the newer playerbase probably doesn't even know that raids like Ivalice exist, I myself had to go looking for it out of rightly assuming that they wouldn't just leave an expansion without it's own raid content. Right now the only incentives otherwise is wondrous tales and mogtomes, which don't cycle soon enough to counter the current roulette system actively discouraging unlocking those raids to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Rika_Isshoku

That's why I didn't propose to keep the ilevel restriction, only to restrict changing gear once you're in the duty (to fix the supposed stat exploit that was mentioned in another reply). If people are still willing to go to that extent to avoid content they subjectively hate, more power to them, I'd even suggest a filter if I didn't think it would backfire on the ability for new players and players who do enjoy it to get parties for that content, but this would at least incentivize players to try the content. Much of the newer playerbase probably doesn't even know that raids like Ivalice exist, I myself had to go looking for it out of rightly assuming that they wouldn't just leave an expansion without it's own raid content. Right now the only incentives otherwise is wondrous tales and mogtomes, which don't cycle soon enough to counter the current roulette system actively discouraging unlocking those raids to begin with.

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Having the roulettes able to be procced by people who don’t have all the content for the roulette unlocked works counter to their designed goal because they are explicitly designed to help people who want to direct queue. A person queuing for the roulette with only CT unlocked is an active hinderance to someone trying to directly queue for ivalice and nier

If you want access to the roulettes you should have to unlock every duty that can appear in said roulette like expert and mentor

The ilvl restriction on alliance was never a good idea and the problems were pointed out before it was even added to the game.

We also have data collected by a player a few years ago trying to look into how likely different raids were and from what I remember the numbers pointed to ilvl manipulation not mattering at all. The problem is having MSQ required raids.

For anyone wanting to make their own conclusions:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?gid=0#gid=0

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

The ilvl restriction on alliance was never a good idea and the problems were pointed out before it was even added to the game.

We also have data collected by a player a few years ago trying to look into how likely different raids were and from what I remember the numbers pointed to ilvl manipulation not mattering at all. The problem is having MSQ required raids.

For anyone wanting to make their own conclusions:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?gid=0#gid=0

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I mean, it is true that CT will always be the most "popular" because of the forced unlock, but some people forced the queue in the past as well. While CT is still the most usual raid I get, it's a lot less frequent than it used to be. Just personal experience, of course.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Having the roulettes able to be procced by people who don’t have all the content for the roulette unlocked works counter to their designed goal because they are explicitly designed to help people who want to direct queue. A person queuing for the roulette with only CT unlocked is an active hinderance to someone trying to directly queue for ivalice and nier

If you want access to the roulettes you should have to unlock every duty that can appear in said roulette like expert and mentor

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100% this. Or they should've just make all alliance raid mandatory tbh

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

not surprised if people are stumbling into Crystal Tower with under-leveled quest rewards still. I know I did, got kicked for it, and then had to spend weeks trying to get something more suitable before was I allowed to progress the MSQ because of it.

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OP's wife is already wearing ironworks gear, ut this isn't exactly the issue here. If you're already 60 but still in ARR, you don't have to do alliance raid roulette. What for you queue it? Exp? Tomestone gear isn't that important if you have the next expansion waiting for you, unless you want to save a bit of money. Not to mention that the game tave you free gear as rewards.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Oh god, that would be awful, I can't imagine how many people would have quit if they were forced to do Mhach or Ivalice just to keep doing the MSQ, most of them struggle to do Crystal Tower as-is. The amount of time I've spent stuck in Labyrinth of the Ancients alone because people just refuse to stand on pads...

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Honestly, good. If they gave up the game after insignificant struggle like that, there's big chance they are too lazy to do mechanics properly.

Also, imagine rage quiting when you can get carried by the other 23 players. Just pretend you're contributing dps-ing or something.

They made this so on purpose so you can't just unequip all your gear to get into the tower 100%. Still works for everything else in the roulette tho, they are real bigbrains.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Actually, it CAN be the game's fault. I had "Road to 80" active when I first started playing (and then Road to 90) and I had level 60+ jobs before I was halfway through ARR and I didn't even need to do roulettes, the challenge log alone was making me soar through levels every week, to say nothing of the non-roulette bonus PVP I was doing.

When you're leveling that fast and the gil and tomes aren't coming in as quickly, I'm really not surprised if people are stumbling into Crystal Tower with under-leveled quest rewards still. I know I did, got kicked for it, and then had to spend weeks trying to get something more suitable before was I allowed to progress the MSQ because of it.
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Oh god, that would be awful, I can't imagine how many people would have quit if they were forced to do Mhach or Ivalice just to keep doing the MSQ, most of them struggle to do Crystal Tower as-is. The amount of time I've spent stuck in Labyrinth of the Ancients alone because people just refuse to stand on pads...

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They wouldn’t have to make it so you need to queue for the new raid as soon as you reach it

But if you want the roulette open to you you have to do all the ones that you can do at the time

So sure if you don’t want to do mhach right when you finish HW then you don’t have to. But you will not have access to the roulette to force it proc CT till you do mhach

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

They wouldn’t have to make it so you need to queue for the new raid as soon as you reach it

But if you want the roulette open to you you have to do all the ones that you can do at the time

So sure if you don’t want to do mhach right when you finish HW then you don’t have to. But you will not have access to the roulette to force it proc CT till you do mhach

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Doesn't that completely negate the purpose of AR roulette in the first place?

Like SE currently bribes vets to do AR roulette so that sprouts can clear the required CT content. They're not likely to then create a major impediment to people doing AR roulette.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Doesn't that completely negate the purpose of AR roulette in the first place?

Like SE currently bribes vets to do AR roulette so that sprouts can clear the required CT content. They're not likely to then create a major impediment to people doing AR roulette.

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The roulette is there to help people direct queuing, this includes direct queuing for things that aren’t CT, if you are queuing for the alliance raid roulette with only CT unlocked because you never bothered to unlock the others to someone queuing directly for ivalice you are worse than useless, you are actively hindering their chances of getting it to pop

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The roulette is there to help people direct queuing, this includes direct queuing for things that aren’t CT, if you are queuing for the alliance raid roulette with only CT unlocked because you never bothered to unlock the others to someone queuing directly for ivalice you are worse than useless, you are actively hindering their chances of getting it to pop

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Not following. Why would anyone want to queue for any AR more than once, outside of glam and rewards?

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Not following. Why would anyone want to queue for any AR more than once, outside of glam and rewards?

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Well 1) you have to get it to pop the first time
2) it doesn’t really matter why someone wants to queue a second time, the roulette is there to facilitate direct queuers queue times. So you shouldn’t be able to make it harder for these people to queue by not unlocking the other raids

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Well 1) you have to get it to pop the first time
2) it doesn’t really matter why someone wants to queue a second time, the roulette is there to facilitate direct queuers queue times. So you shouldn’t be able to make it harder for these people to queue by not unlocking the other raids

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If SE designed interesting PvE the "problem" would solve itself.

That said, I do think there's an argument for putting CT into the MSQ roulette.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

If SE designed interesting PvE the "problem" would solve itself.

That said, I do think there's an argument for putting CT into the MSQ roulette.

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That still doesn’t really mean anything. If you want to queue for the alliance (or any roulette) you should have everything accessible. Roulettes shouldn’t be pick and choose what content you want in them even if you personally think some of the options are bad

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Doesn't that completely negate the purpose of AR roulette in the first place?

Like SE currently bribes vets to do AR roulette so that sprouts can clear the required CT content. They're not likely to then create a major impediment to people doing AR roulette.

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I do find it weird that some people are treating the alliance raid roulette bonus as some kind of sacred cow that others shouldn't be allowed to touch unless they're willing to unlock and run EVERY alliance raid despite the fact it would just create more problems as the people who DON'T want to do a certain AR will just do things to hinder progress anyway (from lethargic play to just leaving). Or in my case I just stopped doing roulettes because my options were "tainted" now.

I recall even there's a lot of people who purposefully do alliance raid roulette LAST precisely so if they don't get a CT run, they can leave and it has zero impact on the rest of their queues because they're basically done for the day anyway.
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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Not following. Why would anyone want to queue for any AR more than once, outside of glam and rewards?

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I actually did attempt to keep direct queuing into Ivalice during the last mogtome event after I initially finished them because I figured I could kill two birds with one stone by farming the music/minions/cards/glam and get mogtomes too, but after finding out I wasn't good enough to be doing that and feeling like a hindrance to other people's farming, I decided I would just make unsync PFs to get the rest of the loot I want from Ivalice once the mogtomes were gone ...only to realize most players on Aether/Primal/Crystal have zero reason to go back in there without the sync/roulette rewards so I never had any takers.

While I was able to solve getting the cards and music with an NPC and the marketboard, the minions and glams are going to be staying out of my reach it seems.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I do find it weird that some people are treating the alliance raid roulette bonus as some kind of sacred cow that others shouldn't be allowed to touch unless they're willing to unlock and run EVERY alliance raid despite the fact it would just create more problems as the people who DON'T want to do a certain AR will just do things to hinder progress anyway (from lethargic play to just leaving). Or in my case I just stopped doing roulettes because my options were "tainted" now.

I recall even there's a lot of people who purposefully do alliance raid roulette LAST precisely so if they don't get a CT run, they can leave and it has zero impact on the rest of their queues because they're basically done for the day anyway.
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I actually did attempt to keep direct queuing into Ivalice during the last mogtome event after I initially finished them because I figured I could kill two birds with one stone by farming the music/minions/cards/glam and get mogtomes too, but after finding out I wasn't good enough to be doing that and feeling like a hindrance to other people's farming, I decided I would just make unsync PFs to get the rest of the loot I want from Ivalice once the mogtomes were gone ...only to realize most players on Aether/Primal/Crystal have zero reason to go back in there without the sync/roulette rewards so I never had any takers.

While I was able to solve getting the cards and music with an NPC and the marketboard, the minions and glams are going to be staying out of my reach it seems.

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No one is trying to deny you your bonus for no reason it’s just if you queue for the alliance roulette without unlocking all the raids you are actively hindering the roulettes purpose of proccing raids for people queuing for it. Going into one of the higher raids and being bad is actively BETTER than you not unlocking it because at least your presence in the roulette queue isn't hindering the roulettes ability to pop the higher raids

You shouldn’t be rewarded for warping the roulettes queuing system

Oh and funny note I know just as many people who queue for the alliance roulette last and leave if they DO get CT or just stopped queueing for the alliance roulette directly which further reduces the pool of people who do anything besides CT

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

That still doesn’t really mean anything. If you want to queue for the alliance (or any roulette) you should have everything accessible. Roulettes shouldn’t be pick and choose what content you want in them even if you personally think some of the options are bad

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Optional content is optional. SE isn't going to introduce some weird hybrid scheme whereby you are compelled to unlock optional content to run content you've already unlocked. I think even they are aware we're forced to do too much dull PvE already and are not likely to drive even more people from the game by compelling them to do more.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Optional content is optional. SE isn't going to introduce some weird hybrid scheme whereby you are compelled to unlock optional content to run content you've already unlocked. I think even they are aware we're forced to do too much dull PvE already and are not likely to drive even more people from the game by compelling them to do more.

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A roulette isn’t required content and we already have a roulette that has optional and required content in it that you need to unlock all content on it before you unlock the roulette which is the level cap roulette. I don’t know why we should be making exceptions for the alliance roulette because it has CT in it

If you are running a roulette you a consenting to get anything for the benefit of a direct queuer. You shouldn’t be able to tailor the roulette to that direct direct queuers detriment

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

A roulette isn’t required content and we already have a roulette that has optional and required content in it that you need to unlock all content on it before you unlock the roulette which is the level cap roulette. I don’t know why we should be making exceptions for the alliance roulette because it has CT in it

If you are running a roulette you a consenting to get anything for the benefit of a direct queuer. You shouldn’t be able to tailor the roulette to that direct direct queuers detriment

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Still not really following. The AR series is unlocked in sequence. If someone chooses to stop unlocking it, I don't see how that is having a negative impact on anyone else.

Is that really how the level cap roulette works? Never done it.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Still not really following. The AR series is unlocked in sequence. If someone chooses to stop unlocking it, I don't see how that is having a negative impact on anyone else.

Is that really how the level cap roulette works? Never done it.

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The roulettes are designed to get people into what is being queued directly for. If you don’t have what is being queued for unlocked then you can’t help that person. That would be bad enough as it is but then on top of that the roulettes are also designed to minimise the average wait time so they flow properly.

So if person A is queuing for ivalice and then you queue for the roulette with only CT unlocked then the roulette is still trying to pop ivalice for this person but now also has to contend with you needing CT to pop in a somewhat timely manner because that’s how roulette systems work. So after a while of not getting enough people for ivalice the roulette may choose to minimise the average queue time and pop CT for you instead since you can’t do ivalice which deprives person A from having enough people to pop ivalice. This is why the higher level alliance raids take so long

So you aren’t just useless you are actively hurting them and warping the roulette’s purpose

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

I beg to differ, given the number of times I was kicked from Mhach and Ivalice before I was able to finish them all because other people did in fact care a great deal about me being bad and dying too many times (even when I was literally the only cutscene watcher and obviously new), meaning I was actively making runs WORSE than if I had never shown up, and now I don't contribute to the roulette popping at all because I don't want to deal with Mhach or Ivalice again, or how my experience with them has ensured I never touch alliance raids from Shadowbringers onward.
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The point is from a utilitarian perspective in terms of the utility of the roulettes even if you got kicked (which being kicked many times as a new person on an alliance roulette sounds odd) the roulette is still more useful than if it never popped those duties because there is very likely at least 2-3 others who were queueing for those duties that needed them popped

So now since you won’t unlock nier, myths or echos you queueing into the alliance roulette is warping it for those who want them to pop, because from a utility perspective it’s more useful for the average player for those duties to pop and kick you then it is for the duties to never pop. I don’t mean that in a harsh way, it’s just how the roulettes are designed to work

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The roulettes are designed to get people into what is being queued directly for. If you don’t have what is being queued for unlocked then you can’t help that person. That would be bad enough as it is but then on top of that the roulettes are also designed to minimise the average wait time so they flow properly.

So if person A is queuing for ivalice and then you queue for the roulette with only CT unlocked then the roulette is still trying to pop ivalice for this person but now also has to contend with you needing CT to pop in a somewhat timely manner because that’s how roulette systems work. So after a while of not getting enough people for ivalice the roulette may choose to minimise the average queue time and pop CT for you instead since you can’t do ivalice which deprives person A from having enough people to pop ivalice. This is why the higher level alliance raids take so long

So you aren’t just useless you are actively hurting them and warping the roulette’s purpose

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So your claim is that, by reducing the total number of players doing ARs through your system (which is what it would do), the queue times for non-CT ARs would shorten?

If that's true, then the issue is with the queue prioritization algorithm.

If it is not true, you're simply constraining how people choose to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

So your claim is that, by reducing the total number of players doing ARs through your system (which is what it would do), the queue times for non-CT ARs would shorten?

If that's true, then the issue is with the queue prioritization algorithm.

If it is not true, you're simply constraining how people choose to play the game.

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Yes because having less people in the roulette forcing it to pop CT would make the other raids faster even if less overall people queued because queueing for the roulette with only CT unlocked is tantamount to sucking 23 other bodies out of the roulette so you’d have to massively decrease the total amount of people to have it be worse for direct queuers of the higher raids

And in order to fix this with algorithm prioritisation they’d have to massively increase the queue length of people who did the right thing and unlocked everything because they would have to sit in a waiting room for the higher roulettes if the algorithm was changed to prioritise the higher roulettes

So if they changed the algorithm you’d just be punishing rouletters that unlocked everything else instead of just forcing people with only CT to unlock everything else

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Even now I'm sitting on every job at 100 and I've barely touched down in Shadowbringers and I didn't need to actively try leveling until I got to 90

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If you have all jobs at 100 and still not finished with ShB, you're making problem of your own. Even with exp buffs, I don't reach max lvl on all of my jobs when I was catching up with the msq back when I started playing this game. And I was rrally taking my time doing everything.

Gil does rain from the sky, it's named levelling roulette and treasure hunt.

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Oh you're that guy who moaned a lot about dying in normal content. How would you expect to get better when you immediately give up as soon as you died in alliance/normal raids? Everybody don't immediately get good at this game, they all experienced the same thing as you in the beginning. Most people won't even care if you died in alliance/normal raid.