Would you like to see the current stat system revised or redone for FFXIV 2.0?

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Originally Posted by Elexia

"Instead of everyone being identical"...it must be largely different on Ragnarok than every other XIV server lol. People already look pretty much identical, especially if they're melding.

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Yeah. There are a lot with similar gear, but not identical. It would probably be a similar situation on your server too if you pay attention.

Why would someone experiment triple melding T3/T4? lol

Fact is people will wait for someone to find out what effects what, and build gear from there. The only difference will be a weapons cap, available gear from dungeons, and stupidity.

All this does is waste real players time in having to figure it out first.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Why would someone experiment triple melding T3/T4? lol

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because it's fun. what other reason need there be?

I've been working on getting myself a raptorskin pot helm +1 triple melded with m.eva. Nobody has one of those that I'm aware of.

Yes they should also add more stats as well

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...he-other-stats

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Yes they should also add more stats as well

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...he-other-stats

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...and waste all the time they spent removing them. Yeah right.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

...and waste all the time they spent removing them. Yeah right.

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Sure why not, they are wasting time on pointless mounts.

I'm going with no here. And a big no on some of Jinko's ideas.

MORE empasis on accuracy? Dragoons already got over a major hurtle in having their accuracy penalties removed, and you would reimpose them on everyone? I hope you mean that Accuracy is more effective on higher level monsters, rather than imposing higher requirements than is already there.

To be honest, I feel that the current system has a good balance. We don't need FFXIV reduced down to a spreadsheet like it was with FFXI. The ability to preform your job should be superior than having a narrow field of gear you 'should' equip to be effective. It's going to be bad enough for some people to keep up once the power creep starts and people haven't even gotten over their AF obsessions yet.

More importantly, if the stats are altered, I wish it's done in a way so that there is many routes to the same goal, where one person can make a Crit Build, and another a standard DPS build and the two would still come out relatively the same.

That way, multiple different styles of each job or class build can take root based on preference and the feeling of experimentation isn't lost on the players less than a year into 2.0

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Sure why not, they are wasting time on pointless mounts.

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By adding mounts they are not undoing their previous work. Work that I might add, was requested by the players. The old system was needlessly confusing and complicated. The current one, while not completely clear at first, is much easier to work with.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I'm going with no here. And a big no on some of Jinko's ideas.

MORE empasis on accuracy? Dragoons already got over a major hurtle in having their accuracy penalties removed, and you would reimpose them on everyone? I hope you mean that Accuracy is more effective on higher level monsters, rather than imposing higher requirements than is already there.

To be honest, I feel that the current system has a good balance. We don't need FFXIV reduced down to a spreadsheet like it was with FFXI.

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You haven't looked at much data testing for XIV, have you? It's already "a spreadsheet", even more so because things are still shakey in calculations in certain regards. You see "spreadsheets" because that's datatesting and parsing.

You find the exact same in any other MMO worth it's salt.

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the two would still come out relatively the same.

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Yoshi wants to avoid this, the whole purpose he reformed the class/job system to being with.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yoshi wants to avoid this, the whole purpose he reformed the class/job system to being with.

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Can you point to a source? My understanding was that the stat reforms were to make it easier for players to properly stat their characters, not to make one gear set per class the only good choice.

You can't really convince Elexia that Gearswapping is anything short of perfect. So don't even bother with that debate. I'm just glad the devs are against the idea in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

You can't really convince Elexia that Gearswapping is anything short of perfect. So don't even bother with that debate. I'm just glad the devs are against the idea in the first place.

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The only thing the devs were against was adding a haste spell. P.S you wouldn't be able to macro gear if they were against it, just fyi.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Can you point to a source? My understanding was that the stat reforms were to make it easier for players to properly stat their characters, not to make one gear set per class the only good choice.

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I'm pretty sure you were playing when they reformed all class actions and added the job system.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The only thing the devs were against was adding a haste spell. P.S you wouldn't be able to macro gear if they were against it, just fyi.

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You mean to say you would be able to change gear in active mode if they weren't against it.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I'm pretty sure you were playing when they reformed all class actions and added the job system.

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I've been playing since beta. I'm not questioning that stats were changed, I'm questioning what you have put forth as the reason for the changes.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The only thing the devs were against was adding a haste spell. P.S you wouldn't be able to macro gear if they were against it, just fyi.

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No, they actually said that they were against swapping gear in active mode. If you haven't noticed, they've also made it so that you can't switch weapons (maybe other gear too, i haven't tried that) in the newest instances. If that doesn't tell you that gear swaps are not coming to this game, I don't know what will.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I've been playing since beta. I'm not questioning that stats were changed, I'm questioning what you have put forth as the reason for the changes.

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So you've somehow completely missed Yoshida stating he wants classes to be more unique? You completely somehow missed them redoing class skills as well as adding in traits and the job system?

Your mind is stuck on stats lol.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

No, they actually said that they were against swapping gear in active mode. If you haven't noticed, they've also made it so that you can't switch weapons (maybe other gear too, i haven't tried that) in the newest instances. If that doesn't tell you that gear swaps are not coming to this game, I don't know what will.

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You also can't move while you change gear, I'm pretty sure that wasn't a purposeful design choice.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

P.S you wouldn't be able to macro gear if they were against it, just fyi.

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I'm pretty sure they're sticking with that because re-equipping gear in this game is a hassle, so you can set up gear sets for each job you play. To use before doing any battling. Not so that you can switch a body piece to perform an ability. You're just being delusional.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

I'm pretty sure they're sticking with that because re-equipping gear in this game is a hassle, so you can set up gear sets for each job you play. To use before doing any battling. Not so that you can switch a body piece to perform an ability. You're just being delusional.

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I really think the only one being delusional are people like you who think you needed to change gear to use a job ability.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

So you've somehow completely missed Yoshida stating he wants classes to be more unique? You completely somehow missed them redoing class skills as well as adding in traits and the job system?

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Have you already forgotten what you said earlier?

in repsonse to this:

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

More importantly, if the stats are altered, I wish it's done in a way so that there is many routes to the same goal, where one person can make a Crit Build, and another a standard DPS build and the two would still come out relatively the same.

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you said:

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yoshi wants to avoid this, the whole purpose he reformed the class/job system to being with.

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Please find me a source. that's all i'm asking. Making classes unique doesn't negate having multiple options for gear.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I really think the only one being delusional are people like you who think you needed to change gear to use a job ability.

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There's nothing delusional about it. That's what folks mean when they say gear swaps because that's what you could do in XI.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

You also can't move while you change gear, I'm pretty sure that wasn't a purposeful design choice.

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I'm with you on that. However, it's not even slightly important to change the way it works because moving while equipping gear wasn't intended in this game.

Elexia, you don't speak for Yoshi, so don't try to.

Yoshi stated that he wanted to create a balance between Raid/Drop gear and Crafted gear.

The issue with jobs has nothing to do with the stats that accompany them, they have to do with creating a distinct identity and role with each Job.

Remember that each Class is going to wind up with multiple jobs, likely each filling a different role than the others in its Class.

That's regardless of how the player uses the stats at his disposal to fill said role should be capable of being met by a variety of gear builds. Yoshi never expressed anything against this at all, and you better cite your sources if you mean to prove otherwise.

Also, there's been a firm no, from the community, on the topic of gear swapping. Actually, it's been a dead topic for a while as it's almost been considered a given that that's simply not happening.

I hope they really revamp the battle system from all sides. I really feel that it still needs a lot of work. Not just the stats but the fundamental mechanics of it still are a bit stale.

wonder why people only care for stats in mmo's theses days.

i rather just do things and have FUN, not like your equip matters much anyways in this game other than HP, MP, def.

DPS tells you how strong the weapon is and at level 50 theres almost no difference and when your using it in a fight there is no difference, only in that on paper perfect world some of you have.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

They really should consider removing Dlvl or making it less noticeable on the way it effects stats and remove some of the silly caps, players should beable to customise their character how they see fit.

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Yes. On that note: SE, for the love of Pete, please cut down on the invisible game mechanics. I played for months before I found out about stat caps. Is it really so bad to have a stat turn to red text in the attributes menu once it has hit a cap?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL, rrrright !

Thoughts like that are only going to hold this game back from being a success.

Although which Final Fantasy are you referring to, as stats have always been pretty clear in the offline games. (not that you could effect them in many ways)

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Better late than never =)
FFVII vs FFIX vs FFXIV
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy...%27s_stats.jpg
http://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-I...PSOGL2_046.jpg
http://static.finalfantasyxiv.com/to...ec/2103_24.jpg

Now could you tell me exactly how much damage I'm going to do to a mob when I hit the Attack button? (or auto-attack in the case of FFXIV)

This is what I mean that the FF series does hot give clear indication of what stats do. I rather like it this way. I know if I bump strength in every one of these situations, I will do more damage. The degree of damage though is not known until I get into a battle.
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Additionally I believe that XIV does have slightly "high" stats compared to other FF games. I've gotten over that fact though since they have kept things like the 9999 Damage caps, and hidden stat caps that prevent things from getting too wild.

I don't care as long as they make stats easier to reset at any given time.

Go have a level 1 class. Fight a mob. Then equip some +ACC rings and fight the mob again. You'll see how much stats make a difference.

I really have no problem with the current list of stats. Though i would like phys. Crit stats to be displayed.

I also don't mind some ambiguity around stats. Having full formulas generally means the elimination of any doubt for some minor percentage gain. Personally i'd rather have some wonder and ponder at the near top of stats then a couple % perfection. MY opinion as always

What i WOULD really like is to see all the stats we have be geared more towards the class/job we're in instead of having many times almost nothing to do with, or such a small bonus that it isn't at all worth the investment perfect formulas or not.

Example: Lancer/Dragoon

Stat Mind

New Class/job bonus. Increases TP gain OR increases timer before tp bleeds

This way there may be some actual benifit to putting points in Mind as a Lancer instead of mostly stacking 2 stats almost exclusively.

TL;DR Let the stats keep their general purpose use, but add some Class/job specific purpose for all stats to apply towards, thus making all attributes relevant to all classes.

Transparency? Yes.
Revamp? No. Value way too high? So what? It's still very low compared to most other MMORPG where you count stat in thousands.

Personally, I have always thought that stats are such a boring RPG mechanic. All anyone does is just load up on the best stat for their respective class anyway, and even then the difference between 1 point of one stat vs another is negligible.

While I don't think stats should be eliminated, I would like to see them become more potent. If I decide to take 1 STR instead of 1 Vitality when I hit level 23, it should be easy to observe the difference.

Also, they should dump having players allocate stats at each level and leave the stats limited to gear choices. Instead they could introduce something similar to FFX's grid system where players can pick and choose a series of bonuses along the lines of those passive stat increases you get as you level that reduces CD or increase the potency of certain abilities.

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Originally Posted by rina_inverse

Jinko, In my opinion, theres two type of player
Those who play for fun
and those who play to achieve something

And if I want to achieve something, I dont want it to be spoon-fed to me

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Tell me what game gives you the victory without forcing you to learn patterns, learn weaknesses, learn rotations, learn what changes to make to said rotations due to mechanics and environmental hazards. Does more information instantly give that to you? What's that? No? Then you're not being spoonfed anything.

Information is information. It helps players make informed decisions instead of flailing about thinking the direction they face increases their success at crafting. It helps those who don't have the time nor the desire to auto-attack lv0 mandragora ad nauseum for hours to see what their crit and accuracy rates are. It also creates for good references so that new players can get the facts they need without digging through research of other people like they were doing a book report. Best of all, more information encourages theorycrafting, which is a good aspect of the community.

I'll agree with Neptune and Jinko on this one. Less secrecy and more information would be a good thing.

On the topic of level correction/dLvl, I'll hold off until I see how they start balancing content. I'm hoping that they pick a number above the level cap or intended level of the content and use that as their main platform for boss design. It could be +8 levels of the intended level, or +3 levels like WoW does, for all I care. Just pick a number and start balancing stuff around it, along with balancing combat on the player characters' side expecting them to have said values to have a chance at winning.

Yes, please. I don't care either way if they become more transparent or not, but I definitely want stats to be more potent or (more likely/importantly) for dlvl to go away. A lot of stats just feel useless.

All for more transparency, particularly on caps, but most importantly make stats have a bigger effect and scale down dlvls effect.

If I don't have enough Magic Accuracy, it cripples my combos and output on BLM
If I don't have enough Accuracy, it really doesn't matter on my DRG

Is this normal / intended?

Yes please. I feel like the stats system is easily one of the weakest/most obscure things in the game. Just a bit more clarity and stronger effects would be nice.

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Originally Posted by rina_inverse

Im sorry, can you explain what do you mean here? serious question

And Im against stripping eveything. I dont need transparancy. I dont want everything to be spoon-fed to me
+1 item, Im also against abolishing this. Before this, crafting HQ is seems like random, and now its more straight forward. We can clearly see the path, how difficult it, assess out skills. +1 items is challenge to player and it shouldnt be remove
And how is food suppose to be difficult? complex? we have a fan made list for that (which i applaud btw). I like this kind of approach. Give the player a shortcut, but make the shortcut difficult. Again, more challenge

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What are talking about? Serious question. Basically i have a decent understanding of what the stats are suppose to do with the job/class/gatherer/crafter that i used but for example i add 8 more int on my blm and do i see any noticeable difference with my dmg without trying to calculate all the dmg i did in a certain fight etc. nope. I'd rather it be i add 2 int and see a difference just by playing that way i get an understanding of what i want to go for stat/gear wise, why do my stats have to be so high it just seems meaningless to me to have such high values when the numbers could be scaled down and the potency elevated instead of if i add 35 str on my mnk i might notice a slight difference in dmg on my weaponskills as well as overall dmg. And i totally hate Dlvl.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I disagree completely, the world needs danger. It's probably a good idea not to attack that level 70 basilisk.

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I'd have to agree with Elexia on this, there is a big difference between real danger and cheap one shot danger.

Of course in this game things don't chase you to hell so I guess that's why they made it this way.

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

Better late than never =)
FFVII vs FFIX vs FFXIV

Now could you tell me exactly how much damage I'm going to do to a mob when I hit the Attack button? (or auto-attack in the case of FFXIV)

This is what I mean that the FF series does hot give clear indication of what stats do. I rather like it this way. I know if I bump strength in every one of these situations, I will do more damage. The degree of damage though is not known until I get into a battle.
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Additionally I believe that XIV does have slightly "high" stats compared to other FF games. I've gotten over that fact though since they have kept things like the 9999 Damage caps, and hidden stat caps that prevent things from getting too wild.

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Comparing offline RPG and MMO doesn't make sence. I couldn't care less if this is a Final Fantasy. That doesn't mean I'm entitled to awful mechanics because of that. Using "it was never there in previous FF" as an argument doesn't make sense either.

You should know that even in games that gives you detailed stats on your character sheet, your exact damage against [%target] cannot be calculated before you get into battle.

But at least you have an idea on what stats are doing.
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I really love all players here whose experience with MMOs is XI/XIV and/or 2 hours of something WoW-like and who like the current stats system.

Theorycrafting is way more present in most of others games than it is on XI or XIV. Transparency with stats have nothing to do with being "spoon fed". As a player, I want to know what stat is doing what. Today on XIV, you add let's say resistance against an element, you have no idea how it works, how is that normal?

Is it too hard to have standard formula such as 1 point of resistance = 0.0x % less damage from that element? At least characters would feel like they are really progressing with their gear, they would notice an immediate difference, DEVs could tailor encounters that requires a certain amount of resistance to be cleared, etc. Same goes with all other stats.

dLvl should have little to no impact as well, especially when lv50. There shouldnt be lv70 monsters around or something.

I want parry/dodge/magic evasion to be expressed in %. Same for resistances.
Attack/STR | INT/Magic attack etc. should be expressed in DPS once computed.

That doesn't mean that I will know exactly how much damage I will do against a specific target, once again...

(This debate remembers me the one with Enmity, when people were saying that Enmity shouldn't be shown to players and remain completely hidden like on XI...)

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Originally Posted by Antipika

Is it too hard to have standard formula such as 1 point of resistance = 0.0x % less damage from that element? At least characters would feel like they are really progressing with their gear, they would notice an immediate difference, DEVs could tailor encounters that requires a certain amount of resistance to be cleared, etc. Same goes with all other stats.

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Totally agree with this, this game undermines elemental resistance to a disappointing level, being able to farm certain elemental gear to assist in clearing Ifrit/Garuda and othe Primals would be such a nice feature to have.

Even make it so that this gear was somewhat required to clear the boss would be nice also. (of course I'm sure people would complain about that)

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dLvl should have little to no impact as well, especially when lv50. There should be lv70 monsters around or something.

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As Duelle made a good point about Dlvl in WoW and that worked perfectly in that game, boss monsters were set at +3 levels above cap, all content was tuned around that so that players could theorycraft their stats to that number. (I'm sure i'm preaching to the chior a bit here though, sorry :P)

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(This debate remembers me the one with Enmity, when people were saying that Enmity shouldn't be shown to players and remain completely hidden like on XI...)

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Yea there a small percentage of players who are masochistic who enjoy having to work to get enjoyment for some reason, I think the majority of us just want to play this game and have fun whilst it making sense to us at the same time.

Its' funny though that those same people are veteran FFXI, I mean I played that game too but I didn't walk away with Stockholm syndrome thankfully.