All The Doom Threads Are Strange To Me

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Every critical engagement is at the quality of an alliance raid boss

So you have

-30 unique critical engagements
-3(4) Boses from castrum (I won’t include Lyon as a seperate boss)(if the two first bosses count separately is debatable)
-4(6) bosses from DRN (dahu and ghost are debatable)
-4(5) Boses from dal (again debatable on the first split boss)

So 41 at the bottom end, 45 at the top end, I’m not even discussing fates here, I think people underestimate the complexity of bozja’s fates but I’m intentionally omitting them to prove a point, an alliance raid has 12 Boses, so Bozja functionally gave us 3.5 whole extra alliance raids, I cannot overstate how much extra casual content of undeniable quality (since a lot of it is modelled off the universally beloved ivalice) that is

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How many of those CEs were reskins of existing bosses?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

How many of those CEs were reskins of existing bosses?

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Almost none considering while they shared character models the fight complexity wasn’t remotely comparable

Unless you want to argue that ivalice belias and Zadnor belias are remotely comparable in difficulty and design considering the difference in death rates

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If you do them once and only once you are getting 3.5 extra alliance raid series worth of high quality bosses, where is the equivalent to that in EW’s battle content

Variant certainly doesn’t have it, variant has 12 bosses between 3 dungeons, if I generously include the 9 EO Boses (and I’m stretching it, DD bosses have like 1.5 mechanics) EW still falls 13 bosses short of ShB not even accounting for how much variability lost actions add

Even if you do this content once, it’s still not remotely comparable

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I disagree.

Variant fights have fewer bosses, but they all have mechanics, you'll likely die the first time if you go in blind, probably die more than once even, different choices will also change their mechanics a little, which will throw you off.

As for Deep Dungeons are, to me, much more fun, because no run is exactly the same. It's more than just, oh boss has so and so mechanic.

You won't always have the same poms, the enemies will spawn in different locations, patrols come and go and can cause a run to go bad. All the mobs and bosses have to learned individually, because they can all kill you, and every time you reach a boss fight, your heart is racing because you don't know this fight, it's your first time reaching them, and you might die and lose all progress and need to restart. The next time you'll be just a little better, just a little faster, but you also just might get unlucky.

You're still adding up numbers and calling it quality. More, doesn't equal better.

If you do the Bozja CEs, yes, you have more bosses, and they all have unique mechanics, which you will learn and get the hang of after a few deaths. Then you need to repeat them 90 or 180 times or whatever to get your reward.

If you do the Variant Dungeons and Deep Dungeons, yes, you have fewer bosses, and they all have unique mechanics, which you will learn and get the hang of after a few deaths. You need to repeat Variant Dungeons, what? maybe 30 times to get your reward. That means less grind, less chance of you getting bored and frustrated at how long this is taking, progress faster, complete the content and feel good you beat something, got what you wanted out of it, and go find something else to do.

This is entertainment, not a job. If I want to repeat the same thing every single day for months or years on end, all I need to do is go to work in the morning.

I mean, like... You repeat roulettes daily, you repeat the same content over and over daily, and then you get into situations where everyone just wants this over and done with as quick as possible. The tank doesn't pull wall to wall? Complain about tank players wasting your time. The healer isn't keeping up? Complain about how healers are wasting your time. The dps isn't using AOE rotation? Complain that dps are wasting your time. That doesn't come from roulettes not having variety, or having bad content. It comes from the fact you've done all that content so many times, it's boring to you.

Bozja/Eureka zones are no different. You're just repeating content over and over, except now, because Endwalker's content is completed a little sooner, all of a sudden, ah! now the game is bad, I'm not repeating things so there's no grind and no grind means no quality.

But how many people complained that Bozja/Eureka were miserable experiences in previous expansions? That they were boring to do?

One real problem FF14 is facing has been coming for a long time now, and started way back in stormblood.

The difficulty creep of Extreme trials from more "midcore" content during ARR and Heavensward, to harder and harder mechanics with each expansion culminating in EW extreme trials which IS NOT what one could consider "midcore" anymore. EW extreme trials are as difficult as savage raids. Remember, they didnt used to be this way.

The top end raiding player base screamed and screamed for more content throughout the last 3 expansions and Square Enix responded by making the extreme versions of trials more and more difficult.

So the players who love midcore content looked towards other content that meshed with their playstyle and got Eureka in Stormblood, and Bozja in Shadowbringers, then nothing in Endwalker. EX trials aren't "midcore" anymore AND there is no grind to test the midcore playerbase (thanks to mount farms being savage level basically).

Yoshi needs to look at the difficulty of Extreme trials and scale the difficulty back in the next expansion to micore levels. Top end raiders already have Savage and Ultimates before you come at me with the "there won't be enough content for high end raiders" argument.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

There's nothing equivalent to large group of players with a difficulty hovering somewhere between casual and extreme. Endwalker came with plenty of content, but it is targeted to casual or high-end, and in different numbers. There's nothing in Endwalker for players who want to play with large groups and have a difficulty above casual and with good recovery, but not to the level of mechanics of extremes.

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Alright, I see your point. But how many of those players would've preferred to do that content fewer times to get their reward, and not have to endlessly grind for months?

Because, I did Eureka and Bozja long after it relevant content. And, while on weekends during peak hours, there's usually people there, I can tell you numerous times I went in, and it was empty, I was alone, or maybe one other person. I ended up soloing most of it, and even had to wait for a weekend to do the raids.

That kind of content will either die as soon as players get everything they want out of it, leaving newer players without the means to do it, which makes the grind even harder and longer, or make it an infinite grind and then everyone complains that it's too long.

I can see the value of having it, even if I personally don't enjoy it, but it is a double edged sword. You can solo most FATEs and CEs in Bozja, but how would you solo the raids?

Meanwhile, Variant can be solo'ed by newer players who are late to the party, especially players like me who haven't an interest in high-end raiding, as can Deep Dungeons, even if farming aetherpool will take a bit longer alone, and they still provide a perfect level of difficulty, at least at first. And by the time you're used to the fights, know them and they're a snoozefest, you're already close to finishing them, that it doesn't seem like a drag.

Well, if you've been on WOW... Or any MMORPG really, even if the forums aren't always very active for others: you already know that the forums MUST criticize the game. Simply being satisfied is a ban, pure and simple.

Joking aside, I do think there's a lot of tension on the forums at the moment. FFXIV forums are also quick to accuse defenders of the game of "fanboy" or "fangirl" without really paying attention to the arguments put forward. In general, people also sometimes ask for too much. Most of the time, this is due to a lack of knowledge of the development process: having spoken to a number of people in the industry, I've found that players' requests are often met with howls of laughter, because they are unfeasible or would require too great a sacrifice. To give just one example, the demand for constantly renewed content (and not just on FF: on all the big MMORPGs) is impossible to satisfy when you consider that some people log on absolutely every day. Under these conditions, it's impossible not to be repetitive.

Another example (... don't hit me): the thread asking for characters' hands to be redone. Typical. A new feature is added, but it's never enough. Is it really important? No. The vast majority of people don't look at their characters' hands, and many pieces of equipment prevent them from being visible anyway. But people do ask for it, without necessarily realizing the work and computer perf it requires.

If all requests were examined and respected, releasing an extension would take not two years, not four, but ten. And people are already chomping at the bit after a few short years, complaining about the repetitive nature of the content and the fact that they need the next extension.

I'm not saying that the game is perfect. There are many things that need to be improved. We can criticize the fact that the game doesn't renew itself enough. Between wow, which is caught up in a kind of frantic flight to novelty (at the risk of not developing some very good ideas) and FFXIV, which rests on its laurels by repeating certain systems from years ago; it would be good to find an in-between. I'm thinking in particular of the Memoquartz system and combat in general. But let's just say the mentality being a little... Capricious, is part of the "MMORPG culture". And FFXIV is no exception.

It's a liveservice game with no long term content.
It's an mmo where people don't need to play together.
It's an rpg without rpg elements.
It uses a class based system but makes them all the same.
It provides some challenges but fails to deliver on rewards to incentivise anyone to do them.

XIV is just not a good game.
I honestly could go on for hours.
You can farm mounts but have nowhere to show them off.
You can farm better gear but it's only useful in the content you got it from.
You can get housing items but the housing system is terrible so most players don't even have one.

Nothing in this game matters or makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

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i know, its almost like these ingrates think they pay for the game, and monthly at that LOL what fools, they haven't given money since before ARR launched so why should square be responsible providing meaningful contents thats carries in to every sub cycle..

and how dare consumers ask a triple A game company to keep the in game models up to date with simple rigging and texture pack updates.. its not like modders do it for free already with little effort..

thank goodness we have developers working so hard by taking entire patch cycles off paid to also get paid working on ff16 as well, otherwise the game would of crashed without their constant vigil...

*Cough Cough* excuse me, i seem to be choking on sarcasm..

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

i know, its almost like these ingrates think they pay for the game, and monthly at that LOL what fools, they haven't given money since before ARR launched so why should square be responsible providing meaningful contents thats carries in to every sub cycle..

and how dare consumers ask a triple A game company to keep the in game models up to date with simple rigging and texture pack updates.. its not like modders do it for free already with little effort..

thank goodness we have developers working so hard by taking entire patch cycles off paid to also get paid working on ff16 as well, otherwise the game would of crashed without their constant vigil...

*Cough Cough* excuse me, i seem to be choking on sarcasm..

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You pay for the game, but aren't happy with what you're provided, you take your money elsewhere. I'm not being sarcastic or "just quit the game...", more like, if truly enough people aren't happy with the state of the game and took their money elsewhere, SE would notice and make changes.

I feel, most people who complain on the forums that the game is in a terrible state but refuse to unsub, are worried, because deep down, they know that most people really wouldn't follow. It wouldn't be a WoW Exodus and the game would be just fine without them, and most people, even with a few pet peeves here and there, are happy with the game.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

You pay for the game, but aren't happy with what you're provided, you take your money elsewhere. I'm not being sarcastic or "just quit the game...", more like, if truly enough people aren't happy with the state of the game and took their money elsewhere, SE would notice and make changes.

I feel, most people who complain on the forums that the game is in a terrible state but refuse to unsub, are worried, because deep down, they know that most people really wouldn't follow. It wouldn't be a WoW Exodus and the game would be just fine without them, and most people, even with a few pet peeves here and there, are happy with the game.

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well there goes any discourse, if we like the game enough that we want it to improve we should just quit everyone, no point actually fighting for change, no need for civil rights in our countries people, we can just leave instead..

you dont want a discussion, you want a echo chamber that constantly validates your purchase of the game, your fragile ego wont allow the game to improve because you will never admit there is a problem in fear of you admitting you made a poor choice.

Man u ppl really can't handle this game being critiscized

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

well there goes any discourse, if we like the game enough that we want it to improve we should just quit everyone, no point actually fighting for change, no need for civil rights in our countries people, we can just leave instead..

you dont want a discussion, you want a echo chamber that constantly validates your purchase of the game, your fragile ego wont allow the game to improve because you will never admit there is a problem in fear of you admitting you made a poor choice.

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Hahahaha. Funny you should mention that, considering the forums are mostly an echo chamber of negativity, game is dying, game is terrible, game is awful.... Oh, the irony.

And no, you can have discussions, that's what the forums are for afterall. But discussions only happen between a few people with differing opinions, in between tens of posts of blanket statements.

And yes, if the changes you so desperately want aren't being made after you've asked for them hundred or thousands of times, then you take a hard stance and take your money elsewhere. If enough people do it, those changes will be forced, but will enough people do it?

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

well there goes any discourse, if we like the game enough that we want it to improve we should just quit everyone, no point actually fighting for change, no need for civil rights in our countries people, we can just leave instead..

you dont want a discussion, you want a echo chamber that constantly validates your purchase of the game, your fragile ego wont allow the game to improve because you will never admit there is a problem in fear of you admitting you made a poor choice.

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If everybody who was mad at the game quit the mmo would be a barren wasteland. These ppl don't really understand why there words ruin the entire game for everyone. They play solo, log in once a month for there house. Don't do savages or ukts ir even exs. They just sit and chat in nn or something similar. Imo they've no right to tell us to quit when they barley even play it

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

i know, its almost like these ingrates think they pay for the game, and monthly at that LOL what fools, they haven't given money since before ARR launched so why should square be responsible providing meaningful contents thats carries in to every sub cycle..

and how dare consumers ask a triple A game company to keep the in game models up to date with simple rigging and texture pack updates.. its not like modders do it for free already with little effort..

thank goodness we have developers working so hard by taking entire patch cycles off paid to also get paid working on ff16 as well, otherwise the game would of crashed without their constant vigil...

*Cough Cough* excuse me, i seem to be choking on sarcasm..

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You pay for a lot of things. Does that mean you have the right to claim absolutely anything and everything?

No. Companies offer you a service - and while you're entitled to ask for a minimum of effort, obviously, but that's currently provided on FFXIV - it doesn't give you the right to demand absolutely anything and everything. As it happens, there are plenty of requests on the forums.

Hands. Hats. Bozja. Job mechanics. The game's overall difficulty. The pictomancer. Instances. The viper. Storyline. A new cast of Scions. Graphics. The list goes on.

NOT EVERYTHING can be done, that's a simple fact - and the fact that SE is a big company doesn't change that. Hence what I said above.

Thank you, though: your message is a pretty good illustration of what I wanted to convey, since you assume that hands are extremely important (hyperfixation on an element that is, objectivly, only marginal... And you chocking on it won't change anything) and that you underestimate the work required (you don't realize the effort that goes into mods. It's a real problem in the game industry btw, and some of them should get pay for their work. Bethesda, I'm looking at you).

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

If everybody who was mad at the game quit the mmo would be a barren wasteland. These ppl don't really understand why there words ruin the entire game for everyone. They play solo, log in once a month for there house. Don't do savages or ukts ir even exs. They just sit and chat in nn or something similar. Imo they've no right to tell us to quit when they barley even play it

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Excuse you? I don't do savage or extremes or ultimates or any of that, because I've no interest in it. And I login every single day, I play solo, I play duo, I play trio, I join roulettes. As long as it's not high end raiding content, I've done it. Don't believe me? Go check my Lodestone profile. Don't speak as if you know me. I've been on almost every single day on the game for the last 4,5 years mister.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

If everybody who was mad at the game quit the mmo would be a barren wasteland. These ppl don't really understand why there words ruin the entire game for everyone. They play solo, log in once a month for there house. Don't do savages or ukts ir even exs. They just sit and chat in nn or something similar. Imo they've no right to tell us to quit when they barley even play it

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I play 4-5 days a week, done all Ex and savages even if that's not my main occupation at the moment. Am I autorized to speak ?

Thank you, you're too kind.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

the forums exist as a means for communication with the developers, im sorry but how often do you call a restaurant after your meal to complement them on a job well done? not to often i take it.
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A lot. It's very rare for me to leave a negative review online, the only exception being hygiene, or really rude behaviour. Actually, I might have done it... once, in all my life. And the restaurant was a disaster. On the other hand, I often tell when it was really good, or the service was on point, or when the whole experience was pleasant.

(Edit - daily quota, new success obtained !)

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Hahahaha. Funny you should mention that, considering the forums are mostly an echo chamber of negativity, game is dying, game is terrible, game is awful.... Oh, the irony.

And no, you can have discussions, that's what the forums are for afterall. But discussions only happen between a few people with differing opinions, in between tens of posts of blanket statements.

And yes, if the changes you so desperately want aren't being made after you've asked for them hundred or thousands of times, then you take a hard stance and take your money elsewhere. If enough people do it, those changes will be forced, but will enough people do it?

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or the game studio sees a lack of profit and decides its not worth the hassle for the main team, the game gets handed to a cheaper studio, put on the cloud and goes in to maintenance mode with 6+ months between every patch, and basically left to die wile it milks its whales for all it can get until it releases next product, all while the people working on the game start getting re directed to newer titles and their focus becomes less and less on the game untill the director starts focusing on other main line games instead.... just for instance...

the forums exist as a means for communication with the developers, im sorry but how often do you call a restaurant after your meal to complement them on a job well done? not to often i take it.
the game LITERALLY tells us to come here with our problems and complaints, the forums are not for you pat the devs on the back for successfully receiving your payment..
this is the MEDIUM at witch the PLAYER-BASE is meant to CONTACT the DEV team.
maybe think about that before you critize people for doing that very thing.

plenty of people do take their money elsewhere, you mentioned the wow exodus, kinda funny considering that the servers seem almost dead since those days, guess there was a FFXIV exodus, but its ok you still have your alt and RP cafe.

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Originally Posted by TheShadowsOfVanity

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I am a consumer. It is my right to complain when a product i pay for or have paid for no longer satisfys me or delivers on its original promises, people can like this or not, but fundimentally this is my right, and telling me to just *unsub silently* is absolutley ludicrous. that should be my personal choice to ubsub with or without saying anything. i am of the belief that if i dont say what i dont like about the game, that i can never expect it to improve, because the developers will NEVER know what i didnt like. i am seeing so many people just trying and trying and getting bodied in the replies, to tell us consumers our opinions dont matter or that we should stop posting here, as if these forums are monopolized by the pro yoshiP maffia or something, the simple reality is, if you dont agree, just say it and then go away. but telling people to quit.. imagine im on the outside of ffxiv looking at joining, and i see complaints to the game about its obscene content droughts, and everywhere are ppl saying "just quit, its not for u" i wouldnt join this game because i wouldnt feel like i would be welcome here if i didnt 1000% like the game.

if everybody who was unhappy with this game quit. ud have no ques for ur dalies, no buyers for ur crafted mats, no pvp to que with, no pfs. ud have nobody. u realize that right? that this IS an Online Multiplayer game, and not a solo game. regadless hm square and yoship try to peddle that.

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It's a liveservice game with no long term content.
It's an mmo where people don't need to play together.
It's an rpg without rpg elements.
It uses a class based system but makes them all the same.
It provides some challenges but fails to deliver on rewards to incentivise anyone to do them.

XIV is just not a good game.
I honestly could go on for hours.
You can farm mounts but have nowhere to show them off.
You can farm better gear but it's only useful in the content you got it from.
You can get housing items but the housing system is terrible so most players don't even have one.

Nothing in this game matters or makes a difference.

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It is not hard to make the content have longevity. it is not have to have old achievments (like savage) mean something, wow does it fine, and i dont care what u think of bliz or wow. the fact is, to be blunt. they do this aspect correct.

but heres wat ill do. ill sub when content drops, and ill unsub when its gone, and ill show square and yoshida that my subscription is only based on the content he provides. and that im unwilling to pay for downtime or mediocrity. and if everybody did this.. lemmi tell u.. this games devs would be bricking it and thing WOULD change.

ill not be replying to replies of this comment, because honestly. ive said my bit and i dont care what anyone else thinks. after next week im unsubbed and gone till dawntrail. and if dawntrail is just as bad as this exp. ill be only subbing for 1 month every 3 years when the expansion is at its final patch. I funedimentally refuse to keep paying for nothing after FOUR years of it

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

or the game studio sees a lack of profit and decides its not worth the hassle for the main team, the game gets handed to a cheaper studio, put on the cloud and goes in to maintenance mode with 6+ months between every patch, and basically left to die wile it milks its whales for all it can get until it releases next product, all while the people working on the game start getting re directed to newer titles and their focus becomes less and less on the game untill the director starts focusing on other main line games instead.... just for instance...

the forums exist as a means for communication with the developers, im sorry but how often do you call a restaurant after your meal to complement them on a job well done? not to often i take it.
the game LITERALLY tells us to come here with our problems and complaints, the forums are not for you pat the devs on the back for successfully receiving your payment..
this is the MEDIUM at witch the PLAYER-BASE is meant to CONTACT the DEV team.
maybe think about that before you critize people for doing that very thing.

plenty of people do take their money elsewhere, you mentioned the wow exodus, kinda funny considering that the servers seem almost dead since those days, guess there was a FFXIV exodus, but its ok you still have your alt and RP cafe.

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You're absolutely right. But, how many times do you need to repeat the same problems you have with the game, not having them changed, before you realise you're being ignored?

It could be you're being ignored for many reasons. Maybe you're complaints aren't valid, maybe more of the playerbase doesn't agree with you, maybe the developers just really don't care one way or another.

But how many times will you repeat yourself, before finally giving up and saying I've had enough, you can't have my money anymore?

And restaurant example, you call, you complain, they don't listen, do you keep going back and eating their food?

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Thank you, though: your message is a pretty good illustration of what I wanted to convey, since you assume that hands are extremely important (hyperfixation on an element that is, objectivly, only marginal... And you chocking on it won't change anything)

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typical straw man, i could care less about the hands, or graphic update at all, new texture packs are easy as heck to implement, and are just an excuse you will see a DT launch as to why they didn't get around to something else.

my entire point went in one ear and out the other, and you just heard what you wanted to hear so you could continue talking the point you wanted to impose on us. based on your own prejudice not based on the facts expressed here in the thread.

you need us to be a certain way so you can validate your views on disregarding our opinions. so you just hear and see what you need to justify your ways.

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Originally Posted by sindriiisgaming

I am a consumer. It is my right to complain when a product i pay for or have paid for no longer satisfys me or delivers on its original promises, people can like this or not, but fundimentally this is my right, and telling me to just *unsub silently* is absolutley ludicrous. that should be my personal choice to ubsub with or without saying anything. i am of the belief that if i dont say what i dont like about the game, that i can never expect it to improve, because the developers will NEVER know what i didnt like. i am seeing so many people just trying and trying and getting bodied in the replies, to tell us consumers our opinions dont matter or that we should stop posting here, as if these forums are monopolized by the pro yoshiP maffia or something, the simple reality is, if you dont agree, just say it and then go away. but telling people to quit.. imagine im on the outside of ffxiv looking at joining, and i see complaints to the game about its obscene content droughts, and everywhere are ppl saying "just quit, its not for u" i wouldnt join this game because i wouldnt feel like i would be welcome here if i didnt 1000% like the game.

if everybody who was unhappy with this game quit. ud have no ques for ur dalies, no buyers for ur crafted mats, no pvp to que with, no pfs. ud have nobody. u realize that right? that this IS an Online Multiplayer game, and not a solo game. regadless hm square and yoship try to peddle that.

but heres wat ill do. ill sub when content drops, and ill unsub when its gone, and ill show square that my subscription is only based on the content he provides. and that im unwilling to pay for downtime or mediocrity. and if everybody did this.. lemmi tell u.. this games devs would be bricking it and thing WOULD change

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Again, yes. You're correct, you have a right to complain. That's the point. You have a certain opinion of how the game should change to be better. You offer your advice, it's ignored. Then what? Give it again? And again? Definition of insanity?

As long as a company is making a profit, and you're not happy with the end product you purchased, you offer your advice on improvements, if they're not implemented, you stop going to said company. If enough people do so, then company loses profits, company makes improvements.

If you leave but most people stick around, then maybe you need to start thinking that maybe... just maybe... it's just you!

And yes, maybe they would put the game into maintenance mode, that's what happened to SWToR, I still enjoyed it for what it was and left as soon as I was done with it. But judging by how they handled 1.0 - 2.0 and how Blizzard handled the WoW Exodus, if indeed your issues a valid and enough people agree, leaving is your best course of action, they'd probably fix it.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

You're absolutely right. But, how many times do you need to repeat the same problems you have with the game, not having them changed, before you realise you're being ignored?

It could be you're being ignored for many reasons. Maybe you're complaints aren't valid, maybe more of the playerbase doesn't agree with you, maybe the developers just really don't care one way or another.

But how many times will you repeat yourself, before finally giving up and saying I've had enough, you can't have my money anymore?

And restaurant example, you call, you complain, they don't listen, do you keep going back and eating their food?

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how many players are there? are each of them not just a justified to fight for this, are each of them not allowed to learn this for them selves? its not just one of us, some people are here saying it, but its not just one person, every patch a new player hits that point and comes here, and yet they are treated like they are the same person that has been saying it since ARR..

this game died once, we can all agree we dont want it to happen again, you just have to trust that the people willing to come criticize the game versus just leaving care enough about it to want to see it improved. even if they are not happy with current state, we can still want to hope and believe it can get better.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Again, yes. You're correct, you have a right to complain. That's the point. You have a certain opinion of how the game should change to be better. You offer your advice, it's ignored. Then what? Give it again? And again? Definition of insanity?

As long as a company is making a profit, and you're not happy with the end product you purchased, you offer your advice on improvements, if they're not implemented, you stop going to said company. If enough people do so, then company loses profits, company makes improvements.

If you leave but most people stick around, then maybe you need to start thinking that maybe... just maybe... it's just you!

And yes, maybe they would put the game into maintenance mode, that's what happened to SWToR, I still enjoyed it for what it was and left as soon as I was done with it. But judging by how they handled 1.0 - 2.0 and how Blizzard handled the WoW Exodus, if indeed your issues a valid and enough people agree, leaving is your best course of action, they'd probably fix it.

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Solid answer so ill reply to just this 1. ur right that leaving rn is for the best, however i dont agree about the insanity part. sometimes u have to yell REEALLY loud. but in the end ur right and i agree with u that ppl should now just quit ff till summer if theyre not happy with the game. forget ur house, its a shackle around ur neck. forget ur fc. if they love u they wont throw u out. discard ur ties, let go and be somewhere better. MHW is booming, wow is decent, OSRS will never financially exploit you.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

how many players are there? are each of them not just a justified to fight for this, are each of them not allowed to learn this for them selves? its not just one of us, some people are here saying it, but its not just one person, every patch a new player hits that point and comes here, and yet they are treated like they are the person that has been saying it since ARR..

this game died once, we can all agree we dont want it to happen again, you just have to trust that the people willing to come criticize the game versus just leaving care enough about it to want to see it improved. even if they are not happy with current state, we can still want to hope and believe it can get better.

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You're misunderstanding my point. Yes, alot of people on these forums agree on alot of issues. 2 minute metas, not enough content, healers, game is dying. I see alot of posts of people agreeing about alot of issues. I personally don't agree, or agree to some extent, but don't consider it a deal breaker.

You can voice your opinions, and others here might agree with you. And your opinions may even be valid. But, at the end of the day, if those issues are deemed unimportant to the majority of players, and the company still continues to make a profit, they don't have any incentive to change.

The question really is, would you and everyone else on the forums who agree, get tired of repeating your frustrations eventually, unsub, and will you all be enough to hurt SE's bottom line?

My point was, you don't attempt that, because, deep down, you don't believe you are in the majority, and know that, unsub won't hurt their bottom line, and that maybe... just maybe... we don't matter to them. We don't matter, and we'll never matter unless we hit them on their profit margins, but, more than like, the people complaining on the forums day in day out over the same issues they have with the game, if they all left, it wouldn't even phase SE's profits.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

You're misunderstanding my point. Yes, alot of people on these forums agree on alot of issues. 2 minute metas, not enough content, healers, game is dying. I see alot of posts of people agreeing about alot of issues. I personally don't agree, or agree to some extent, but don't consider it a deal breaker.

You can voice your opinions, and others here might agree with you. And your opinions may even be valid. But, at the end of the day, if those issues are deemed unimportant to the majority of players, and the company still continues to make a profit, they don't have any incentive to change.

The question really is, would you and everyone else on the forums who agree, get tired of repeating your frustrations eventually, unsub, and will you all be enough to hurt SE's bottom line?

My point was, you don't attempt that, because, deep down, you don't believe you are in the majority, and know that, unsub won't hurt their bottom line, and that maybe... just maybe... we don't matter to them. We don't matter, and we'll never matter unless we hit them on their profit margins, but, more than like, the people complaining on the forums day in day out over the same issues they have with the game, if they all left, it wouldn't even phase SE's profits.

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we the player base have in fact done this before and with results, this is my 3rd account, i have 2 PC accounts and a PS account (and soon a xbox one maybe), ive been playing this game since launch, at one point we did give up on this game, and they dropped a mentor on it, another time was during the award winning expatiation heavensward when the game became so stagnant that it almost died, good ol' gordius, this account is the only one i have subbed at the moment due to a new patch that dropped about 2 hours ago, a new patch full of a lack of content i called at 2 am last night before the patch notes even dropped in this very thread.

im hear to finish my relic, see the story and judge whether or not the game is worth playing till i make the same choice with dawntrail.


we do vote with our wallets. some of us more so than others. i have many toons, many cashshop items on multiple of them, many fantasias bought many subs paid.
sure i can walk away, where do i get a refund for all the digital content i payed for? probably worth trying to see something i had loved can be redeemed before i just cast it in to the fires.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

You won't get a refund. It's more of a cut your losses kind of situation.

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my point exactly, when you pay full price for a car, that wont start sold "as is" you dont just take it to the junk yard, you exhaust your options of fixing it, or at least inquire, before you scrap it.

this game holds value if only just sentimental value, you may have started in 2023 but this game launched in like 2010-2011, we have been playing it a decade+
we have the right to criticize and speak on the decline of quality.

you are in the honeymoon phase, but one day you will see it too.


(at post cap, ill gladly continue chatting tomorrow if you're here, you have been a pleasant and reasonable conversation and i have been enjoying it, thanks )

It's not supposed to be a grindfest, but grind is part of the experience since the beginning. ARR relic, HW relic and diadem, SB eureka, ShB Bozja/Zadnor. Some kind of grind has been part of the deal from the beginning to please the mmo players that likes that kind of thing. Sure, compared to other mmo, it was a pretty light grind, but it was there. Nobody can deny that. Plus that content served the purpose of keeping those players engaged during the down periods.

EW totally removed that. Sure some people are happy with it, but there are people that play mmo for that kind of content, and liked that the FFXIV version of that wasn't too much of a time sink while still there. The whole "FFXIV is not supposed to be WoW" is kinda ignoring that has been part of the experience since the beginning. FFXIV has the chance to well installed, because any new mmo with a content EW would be criticized for its lack of mmo elements. Question would probably be "Why make a mmo anyway". I think keeping your mmo crowd happy is important in a mmo.

I believe that if there was another mmo that would go for the "good story, not too much grind but still enough to keep mmo players engaged" that FFXIV used to have, most of the mmo crowd would move to that game.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

we the player base have in fact done this before and with results, this is my 3rd account, i have 2 PC accounts and a PS account (and soon a xbox one maybe), ive been playing this game since launch, at one point we did give up on this game, and they dropped a mentor on it, another time was during the award winning expatiation heavensward when the game became so stagnant that it almost died, good ol' gordius, this account is the only one i have subbed at the moment due to a new patch that dropped about 2 hours ago, a new patch full of a lack of content i called at 2 am last night before the patch notes even dropped in this very thread.

im hear to finish my relic, see the story and judge whether or not the game is worth playing till i make the same choice with dawntrail.


we do vote with our wallets. some of us more so than others. i have many toons, many cashshop items on multiple of them, many fantasias bought many subs paid.
sure i can walk away, where do i get a refund for all the digital content i payed for? probably worth trying to see something i had loved can be redeemed before i just cast it in to the fires.

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You won't get a refund. It's more of a cut your losses kind of situation.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

How many of those CEs were reskins of existing bosses?

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Very few bosses and enemies in all of Final Fantasy XIV aren't reskins.

We fight palette swap bogies in lv80+ content and a reskin of a Lv50 Primal at Lv87.

To say nothing of the models taken straight from XII and XI, using the exact same animations.

I don't like doomer posts either, but I don't want to leave the discussion to people who want exploratory zones to disappear, or who think we shouldn't lock rewards like mounts behind Savages. These people are actively trying to ruin the gameplay part of this game by uncritically consuming whatever is served to them and then defending it by saying that this game isn't for you anymore, or that you should patch log and then unsub to play another game.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I don't like doomer posts either, but I don't want to leave the discussion to people who want exploratory zones to disappear, or who think we shouldn't lock rewards like mounts behind Savages. These people are actively trying to ruin the gameplay part of this game by uncritically consuming whatever is served to them and then defending it by saying that this game isn't for you anymore, or that you should patch log and then unsub to play another game.

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Who's saying that? If SE added another exploratory zone, I'd do it. I'd still find it a drag after the initial luster wears, but I'd shut up and do it.

And yes, high-end raiders deserve rewards too, and since I don't do that stuff, I won't get that reward. Such is life.

My point is that people who enjoy exploratory zones, didn't get one this expansion and are claiming they got less content, which is untrue.

Should I be making posts about how Shadowbringers needs more content because there's no Deep Dungeon, or Hildy, or Allied Quests for the Tribes, which I enjoy?

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Who's saying that?

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Am I being gaslit.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Should I be making posts about how Shadowbringers needs more content because there's no Deep Dungeon, or Hildy, or Allied Quests for the Tribes, which I enjoy?

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Complaining about ShB now is a moot point considering you got all of this in Endwalker, but if we were in ShB times yes you would have been entitled to complain about them not adding content you'd be expecting to be there. I wasn't in these forums when ShB came out so I can't say if people complained about Hild or Deep Dungeons, but yes you should have.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

Should I be making posts about how Shadowbringers needs more content because there's no Deep Dungeon, or Hildy, or Allied Quests for the Tribes, which I enjoy?

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You're welcome to, and many people actually totally had those complaints at the time. There were actually a lot of folks who considered the Shadowbringers patches to be a major step down from Stormblood (content-wise) as they were coming out. IMO, Shadowbringers postgame is only really fondly remembered because a significant portion of the games current population started playing the game during Shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Am I being gaslit.

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No, I'm serious, who said exploratory zones should never exist again, or that savages shouldn't have rewards? I've never seen anyone say that.

Most posts are about Endwalker being devoid of content, because one exploratory zone where you have to grind for three months doesn't exist, saying the new stuff like Variant Dungeons, Island Sancturary, and Deep Dungeon, and Allied Tribes returning doesn't count. Or complaints about how easy everything is, when it's about the same for me, I die a few times and then it's easy, same as any other content.

I've also seen some complaints I can understand, like the exploratory zones are meant for midcore people who want some challenge but not a super difficult one. Which you'll still get, albeit to a lesser extent.

I haven't seen anyone say Savage needs to be removed from the game, or exploratory content shouldn't be in the game.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Complaining about ShB now is a moot point considering you got all of this in Endwalker, but if we were in ShB times yes you would have been entitled to complain about them not adding content you'd be expecting to be there. I wasn't in these forums when ShB came out so I can't say if people complained about Hild or Deep Dungeons, but yes you should have.

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Complaining about all this is a moot point, since Endwalker is now over and we're in the downtime waiting for Dawntrail and they've said I believe a new exploratory zone is coming?

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You're welcome to, and many people actually totally had those complaints at the time. There were actually a lot of folks who considered the Shadowbringers patches to be a major step down from Stormblood (content-wise) as they were coming out. IMO, Shadowbringers postgame is only really fondly remembered because a significant portion of the games current population started playing the game during Shadowbringers.

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Ah, I didn't know, sorry. I wasn't around the forums then. I didn't start interacting with the forums until they changed Alliance Roulette.

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Originally Posted by TheShadowsOfVanity

WOW WOW WOW WOW

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Okay, we get it, you didn’t like Shadowlands. Let me finish your post: the whole point of FFXIV is to not be WoW, and since WoW is a video game, FFXIV shouldn’t be one. It should have cutscenes and then no content at all so you can unsub and play other games (non-WoW).

Have you considered consulting a human rights lawyer? It seems that Blizzard is falsely imprisoning people because they’re forcing them to play WoW. That seems like a violation of international law. You see, FFXIV opposes slavery, which is why it has no content: that way you’re never forced to play against your will!

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Originally Posted by TheShadowsOfVanity

People claim the game has no content.

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As a new player to FF14 coming from wow. ( Ive mained healer in wow for like 15+ years ) there seems to be immensely more content in FF than WoW. Granted I am only at 51 and around lvl 40 for the msq but this game does a great job at not only giving you a ton of content/mechanics to play around with but they do a very good job at introducing us to those systems/content in an immersive way.

Having a blast with FF :3

Thanks for your output, nobody asked. The game has been degrading every year and its getting worst and worst and worst. period.

When you realise it's just players typing out really dressed-up rants; and that they are simply trying to decompress and vent, it becomes easier to not take them too seriously.

You must be really good at your job as a tour guide. To sell something that is shit.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Okay, we get it, you didn’t like Shadowlands. Let me finish your post: the whole point of FFXIV is to not be WoW, and since WoW is a video game, FFXIV shouldn’t be one. It should have cutscenes and then no content at all so you can unsub and play other games (non-WoW).

Have you considered consulting a human rights lawyer? It seems that Blizzard is falsely imprisoning people because they’re forcing them to play WoW. That seems like a violation of international law. You see, FFXIV opposes slavery, which is why it has no content: that way you’re never forced to play against your will!

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This was actually genuinely funny to me, I appreciate the laugh!
First of all, I've been critical of WOW since the end of Legion, though Warlords didn't exactly cause my heart to throb either. Shadowlands was certainly an incredible low point, but for me WOW peaked in Legion and has only gone downhill since then. Story-wise especially.
As for the rest of it, I'll simply say that you obviously can't make any good-faith arguments, given your absurd dive into comedic hyperbole. Therefore, I see little point in expanding my reply.