Thank you to YoshiP and the devs for the Rising

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

The Devs and Community Manager of the game I used to play had very fragile egos and couldn't/wouldn't tolerate any negativity toward their game at all.

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That literally sounds like FF14 based on what Yoshi P complained about recently ?

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Too many of the critics aren't expressing any love for the game, though. They're only expressing hate.

I know that has come up before but as I've said before if players only mention what the devs are doing wrong and never mention what they're doing right, they're going to stop paying attention. No one can work effectively if they're stuck in a negative echo chamber.

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Why do you keep posting this kind of thing?

You've had it laid out to you pretty explicitly that this isn't how things work, like in Lauront's excellent response in a previous thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6323211

It just feels like you know what you are posting isn't true, and are knowingly misrepresenting reality to appeal to peoples emotions.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Why do you keep posting this kind of thing?

You've had it laid out to you pretty explicitly that this isn't how things work, like in Lauront's excellent response in a previous thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6323211

It just feels like you know what you are posting isn't true, and are knowingly misrepresenting reality to appeal to peoples emotions.

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That's typical Jojoya though, their signature already says enough

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Why do you keep posting this kind of thing?

You've had it laid out to you pretty explicitly that this isn't how things work, like in Lauront's excellent response in a previous thread: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6323211

It just feels like you know what you are posting isn't true, and are knowingly misrepresenting reality to appeal to peoples emotions.

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What about what Jojoya said is wrong though? Just take a quick gander at some of these throwaway alt accounts and you can see they are only created to criticize with impunity on accounts they don't care about.

Constructive feedback is fine, but some of these posters have been here for years just to constantly complain and criticize. It doesn't matter what the game releases, they will find some way to crap on it. It's fine if you say your piece maybe once in a while, but some of these people have no purpose but to do this. It's pretty lame in my opinion, but hey it's their life being wasted.

Anyway I bought Answers - Reprise on Mog Station. Calming / Contemplative monk temple a work in progress. May need to hire a decorator with actual creativity lol.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

What about what Jojoya said is wrong though? Just take a quick gander at some of these throwaway alt accounts and you can see they are only created to criticize with impunity on accounts they don't care about.

Constructive feedback is fine, but some of these posters have been here for years just to constantly complain and criticize. It doesn't matter what the game releases, they will find some way to crap on it. It's fine if you say your piece maybe once in a while, but some of these people have no purpose but to do this. It's pretty lame in my opinion, but hey it's their life being wasted.

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Read the post I linked, and you will understand exactly why what they said is wrong.

In a corporate setting, there are layers of protocol around the way customer feedback is ingested. In no reality would the developers be directly reading feedback (in a language they likely don't even know fluently), feel sad about it, and then decide to start ignoring feedback.

That entire idea is 100% ridiculous, and a cynically engineered attempt to try to shut down criticism by provoking an emotional response towards a made up situation.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Read the post I linked, and you will understand exactly why what they said is wrong.

In a corporate setting, there are layers of protocol around the way customer feedback is ingested. In no reality would the developers be directly reading feedback (in a language they likely don't even know fluently), feel sad about it, and then decide to start ignoring feedback.

That entire idea is 100% ridiculous, and a cynically engineered attempt to try to shut down criticism by provoking an emotional response towards a made up situation.

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I think we are also talking about different things - constructive feedback is one thing, but pettiness, spite, hyperbole, and complete disregard for professions from a certain type of poster is another. If I controlled a board, I'd run such people right off like ESO does.

You also completely ignore those devs who have in the past tried to engage with gamers directly or read their feedback and end up with mental health issues. If you have followed any on social media and read their thoughts and why they no longer engage, you'd know how unnecessarily nasty people can be. We see a lot of such people here.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I think we are also talking about different things - constructive feedback is one thing, but pettiness, spite, hyperbole, and complete disregard for professions from a certain type of poster is another. If I controlled a board, I'd run such people right off like ESO does.

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Nope. That post I linked, along with my own post in that thread both address the inherent value of even the strongest negative sentiment. At my job, we get feedback boxes full of abusive profanity that is 100000x worse than even the worst posts made on these forums. Sometimes we even get recorded voice messages on our phone systems!

Usually we pass them around the office and laugh at them, before setting to work figuring out what they were upset about.

I seriously cannot understate how mild the negativity on these forums is. People have such an exaggerated concept of these forums in their mind.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

You also completely ignore those devs who have in the past tried to engage with gamers directly or read their feedback and end up with mental health issues.

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The post I linked discusses the corporate infrastructure that exists in most companies to help isolate developers from this. Did you read it?

I repeat myself: In no reality would the developers at CBU3 be directly reading feedback (in a language they likely don't even know fluently), feel sad about it, and then decide to start ignoring feedback. This is just a headcannon created by users on these forums. There are layers of corporate infrastructure that cleanup and digest the feedback before it ever reaches their desks.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

We see a lot of such people here.

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No we don't. These forums are actually incredibly mild. More people need to browse 5ch or xivg to get some perspective.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Nope. That post I linked, along with my own post in that thread both address the inherent value of even the strongest negative sentiment. At my job, we get feedback boxes full of abusive profanity that is 100000x worse than even the worst posts made on these forums. Sometimes we even get recorded voice messages on our phone systems!

Usually we pass them around the office and laugh at them, before setting to work figuring out what they were upset about.

I seriously cannot understate how mild the negativity on these forums is. People have such an exaggerated concept of these forums in their mind.



The post I linked discusses the corporate infrastructure that exists in most companies to help isolate developers from this. Did you read it?

I repeat myself: In no reality would the developers at CBU3 be directly reading feedback (in a language they likely don't even know fluently), feel sad about it, and then decide to start ignoring feedback. This is just a headcannon created by users on these forums. There are layers of corporate infrastructure that cleanup and digest the feedback before it ever reaches their desks.



No we don't. These forums are actually incredibly mild. More people need to browse 5ch or xivg to get some perspective.

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I simply disagree with you as to how much abuse any professional should have to dig through, be it directly or funneled through a CM. Simple as that.

If you can't be respectful, you don't deserve to be heard.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Nope. That post I linked, along with my own post in that thread both address the inherent value of even the strongest negative sentiment. At my job, we get feedback boxes full of abusive profanity that is 100000x worse than even the worst posts made on these forums. Sometimes we even get recorded voice messages on our phone systems!

Usually we pass them around the office and laugh at them, before setting to work figuring out what they were upset about.

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Traumabonding is considered torture in the wider community.
It's too late for you to see the problem.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I simply disagree with you as to how much abuse any professional should have to dig through, be it directly or funneled through a CM. Simple as that.

If you can't be respectful, you don't deserve to be heard.

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People have been respectful for years with this dev team, they actually just dont care, so what do they do then ? Keep being nice and say a little "please please please" to every request that has been ignored a thousand times ? People get annoyed, and they have the right to be.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

People have been respectful for years with this dev team, they actually just dont care, so what do they do then ? Keep being nice and say a little "please please please" to every request that has been ignored a thousand times ? People get annoyed, and they have the right to be.

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They don't have to agree or want to implement every request they receive. Game would be a hot mess in the hands of the players with no dev experience, no business experience, and no experience with game design. Lots of requests actually directly contradict one another.

Either way, acting disrespectfully or abusive is never the answer.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

They don't have to agree or want to implement every request they receive. Game would be a hot mess in the hands of the players with no dev experience, no business experience, and no experience with game design. Lots of requests actually directly contradict one another.

Either way, acting disrespectfully or abusive is never the answer.

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When constructive complaints have been ignored for multiple years, it is a problem yeah, and ignoring it is not going to magically make it go away, it'll just upset your playerbase more and more over time, until eventually it reaches a point that there is no more "nice", and people bash them, which to be fair is deserved at this point, any sort of complaint is ignored, met with the "lalalalala i cant hear you" treatment, and meanwhile the game is slowly going downhill, while if they actually listened to their community a little, it wouldnt happen, or at least not to such an extent.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

When constructive complaints have been ignored for multiple years, it is a problem yeah, and ignoring it is not going to magically make it go away, it'll just upset your playerbase more and more over time, until eventually it reaches a point that there is no more "nice", and people bash them, which to be fair is deserved at this point, any sort of complaint is ignored, met with the "lalalalala i cant hear you" treatment, and meanwhile the game is slowly going downhill, while if they actually listened to their community a little, it wouldnt happen, or at least not to such an extent.

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Well, the game is going downhill into a big pile of cash. They are doing something right. And just because they don't respond (i.e. end up in pointless arguments) with players, or don't agree with suggestions, doesn't mean they haven't considered them or that they don't carefully consider all the datapoints they have access to.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Well, the game is going downhill into a big pile of cash. They are doing something right. And just because they don't respond (i.e. end up in pointless arguments) with players, or don't agree with suggestions, doesn't mean they haven't considered them or that they don't carefully consider all the datapoints they have access to.

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So whales buying everything from the mog shop while the playerbase is actually slowly leaving (which it is, it can be seen in game and on outside sources such as steamcharts which give a good sample) is a good idea ?

Also give me a break lol, just face the truth, they dont care about anything that is on this forum, they dont even read it, at best they might read the JP ones, but that's pretty much it, the EU/NA forums just exist to be there.

The ratio battle doth continue to rageth.

https://media.tenor.com/6vszatidNsYA...tter-ratio.gif

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

So whales buying everything from the mog shop while the playerbase is actually slowly leaving (which it is, it can be seen in game and on outside sources such as steamcharts which give a good sample) is a good idea ?

Also give me a break lol, just face the truth, they dont care about anything that is on this forum, they dont even read it, at best they might read the JP ones, but that's pretty much it, the EU/NA forums just exist to be there.

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The EW era made more money in its' lifespan, and continues to do so including quarters between patches, than any other expansion. So...*shrug*

I already said in the past that I doubt they bother with this forum, so we can agree there. But that doesn't mean they don't get feedback from any player-driven source.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

The EW era made more money in its' lifespan, and continues to do so including quarters between patches, than any other expansion. So...*shrug*

I already said in the past that I doubt they bother with this forum, so we can agree there. But that doesn't mean they don't get feedback from any player-driven source.

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Of course they do, and that's partially thanks to more mog shop purchases, which happen more often, less time in between new items, and also more expensive prices, and also partially thanks to the WoW Exodus, it kept a certain percentage of players so of course its higher than it ever was especially now.

A big example of them not listening is healers, it's been multiple years.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

Of course they do, and that's partially thanks to more mog shop purchases, which happen more often, less time in between new items, and also more expensive prices, and also partially thanks to the WoW Exodus, it kept a certain percentage of players so of course its higher than it ever was especially now.

A big example of them not listening is healers, it's been multiple years.

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And where do you get your data from about Mog purchases? Do you have access to any information about the ratio between player subs and Mog purchase revenue in any comparative sense? I doubt it - it's not in the financials. You bring up steamcharts but it on average still has more players than prior eras.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

And where do you get your data from about Mog purchases? Do you have access to any information about the ratio between player subs and Mog purchase revenue in any comparative sense? I doubt it - it's not in the financials. You bring up steamcharts but it on average still has more players than prior eras.

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It has more players than in the past yes, because of the WoW exodus.

Also as I said, there are more and more mog purchases available, with less and less time between them, and of course for a higher price too.

As for their "financials" of course they wont show anything, especially regarding the playerbase, it wouldnt look good.

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

It has more players than in the past yes, because of the WoW exodus.

Also as I said, there are more and more mog purchases available, with less and less time between them, and of course for a higher price too.

As for their "financials" of course they wont show anything, especially regarding the playerbase, it wouldnt look good.

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But you're still speculating that every mog release is a success and you are making the claim that the game is being held up by whales, when in fact the game simply has more players, more subs, and possibly more mog station purchases due to the larger playerbase.

The WoW exodus was some time ago at this point, those players have many options to play other games that aren't XIV. It's not like they had to come here or stay here in a year with quite a few high-profile games coming out to compete for player time and attention. So grats on XIV for attracting players from a competitor, due to the high quality of their game.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

But you're still speculating that every mog release is a success and you are making the claim that the game is being held up by whales, when in fact the game simply has more players, more subs, and possibly more mog station purchases due to the larger playerbase.

The WoW exodus was some time ago at this point, those players have many options to play other games that aren't XIV. It's not like they had to come here or stay here in a year with quite a few high-profile games coming out to compete for player time and attention. So grats on XIV for attracting players from a competitor, due to the high quality of their game.

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The people FFXIV attracted, or at least a certain percentage of them, is basically just venue goers, roleplayers (ERPers too) and the likes, basically people not playing the game, so not a big loss really

Also I didnt say the game is "held up" by whales, I said there are a lot of them, of course there are more people as I just mentioned, thanks to the WoW exodus and people joining naturally as well from other games or wherever they came from

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

The people FFXIV attracted, or at least a certain percentage of them, is basically just venue goers, roleplayers and the likes, basically people not playing the game, so not a big loss really

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Who cares why they are here. They are paying players who like certain features. Who are you, someone who said you hate nearly all content except housing, to judge others?

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Who cares why they are here. They are paying players who like certain features. Who are you, someone who said you hate nearly all content except housing, to judge others?

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We could have a talk about what made me join the game but I dont think it'd be very appropriate especially with the great 20 messages a day quota, if you truly think I originally joined FFXIV with the idea of doing housing, you are very wrong, Shadowlands was an absolute bore, and I joined FFXIV because I wanted to do content, not do housing, but sadly I was very let down by how bad the content is in FFXIV, it's just plain mediocre, jobs also have 0 uniqueness to them which doesnt help anything

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Originally Posted by RosaliaDLB

We could have a talk about what made me join the game but I dont think it'd be very appropriate especially with the great 20 messages a day quota, if you truly think I originally joined FFXIV with the idea of doing housing, you are very wrong, Shadowlands was an absolute bore, and I joined FFXIV because I wanted to do content, not do housing, but sadly I was very let down by how bad the content is in FFXIV, it's just plain mediocre

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But why don't you find a game that has content you want to do then? I am genuinely curious. You aren't forced to stay here in your house if you are so let down. Are there not other games that have content you prefer doing?

I'm not telling you to leave before you think that is the case, I am just wondering if you do spend time elsewhere or what keeps you here for just housing and being disappointed.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

But why don't you find a game that has content you want to do then? I am genuinely curious. You aren't forced to stay here in your house if you are so let down. Are there not other games that have content you prefer doing?

I'm not telling you to leave before you think that is the case, I am just wondering if you do spend time elsewhere or what keeps you here for just housing and being disappointed.

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I get you very well, and I mentioned it a few times already on the forums, I play WoW for its content, and FFXIV for the social aspect and of course housing, I still dont think that disqualifies me from having an opinion on FFXIV's content though, considering I have tried it at all at this point

Both games have their flaws, and FFXIV's flaw is the absolutely mediocre content, while WoW has a lot less of a social aspect to the game.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

I get you very well, and I mentioned it a few times already on the forums, I play WoW for its content, and FFXIV for the social aspect and of course housing, I still dont think that disqualifies me from having an opinion on FFXIV's content though, considering I have tried it at all at this point

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I can like this, and it puts a lot into perspective. It sounds like WOW is doing some things very well content-wise. And I'm someone who has had stints in game for housing, so I get that too.

I also agree that you definitely should have a say on how you feel about XIV content, and I can see challenge-wise, job design wise, or encounter design wise why you see room for improvement. Having played a lot more challenging MMOs, I agree with you.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I can like this, and it puts a lot into perspective. It sounds like WOW is doing some things very well content-wise. And I'm someone who has had stints in game for housing, so I get that too.

I also agree that you definitely should have a say on how you feel about XIV content, and I can see challenge-wise, job design wise, or encounter design wise why you see room for improvement. Having played a lot more challenging MMOs, I agree with you.

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I am glad we can agree with each other, I am not here to be at war with people playing FFXIV, I have said many times I love FFXIV because of its housing system in particular and the social aspect of it, I just really think the content itself is boring, the jobs are also a massive letdown, they just arent... very fun ?

M+ would be an amazing idea that FFXIV could take from WoW, especially since IIRC Yoshi P said he took quite a few ideas from WoW, repeatable dungeons with affixes/difficulties would at least make it more fun, the problem is that the daily activities have 0 challenge in FFXIV, except if you want to repeat the same savage raids over and over and over and over again, or repeat the same few ultimates a million times, there just isnt enough that is challenging

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

I am glad we can agree with each other, I am not here to be at war with people playing FFXIV, I have said many times I love FFXIV because of its housing system in particular and the social aspect of it, I just really think the content itself is boring, the jobs are also a massive letdown, they just arent... very fun ?

M+ would be an amazing idea that FFXIV could take from WoW, especially since IIRC Yoshi P said he took quite a few ideas from WoW, repeatable dungeons with affixes/difficulties would at least make it more fun, the problem is that the daily activities have 0 challenge in FFXIV, except if you want to repeat the same savage raids over and over and over and over again, or repeat the same few ultimates a million times, there just isnt enough that is challenging

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I think my main issue is that a lot of the jobs feel...samey, if that makes sense? I do appreciate some of the spectacle for some classes visually, but what I'm actually doing doesn't feel super different between jobs of the same basic type.

And I know you mentioned the 2 minute meta in the past, which adds to this problem.

Probably out of my 20 posts, so I guess I have to bow out and let other people talk lol

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I think my main issue is that a lot of the jobs feel...samey, if that makes sense? I do appreciate some of the spectacle for some classes visually, but what I'm actually doing doesn't feel super different between jobs of the same basic type.

And I know you mentioned the 2 minute meta in the past, which adds to this problem.

Probably out of my 20 posts, so I guess I have to bow out and let other people talk lol

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Yeah I agree, the game is very visual aimed, yet the actual spells themselves sadly just arent very fun, as you mentioned they kind of are all the same, and yeah the 2 mins meta is just meh.

Also the daily posts quota is absolutely ridiculous, I have said this multiple times, I have never seen a video game forum that has a limit on daily posts, especially at only 20, you can barely have a conversation with a person with that many posts, and then you have to wait 24 hours, it's just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by SophiaDL

Yeah I agree, the game is very visual aimed, yet the actual spells themselves sadly just arent very fun, as you mentioned they kind of are all the same, and yeah the 2 mins meta is just meh.

Also the daily posts quota is absolutely ridiculous, I have said this multiple times, I have never seen a video game forum that has a limit on daily posts, especially at only 20, you can barely have a conversation with a person with that many posts, and then you have to wait 24 hours, it's just ridiculous.

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It's almost like they only want us talking where they can easily get rid of us and they only let us continue here because we are completely irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

The devs are big boys, they can handle criticism of their product without having a mental breakdown. The fact that we're still here giving them money is demonstrative of the fact that on some level, we still find some joy in the game. The forums are just as much a place for feedback as they are a place for fans to thank the devs; learn to live with it bro.

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That's a goal post move, though.

The discussion isn't "can the devs take it", it's "are the people being negative offering criticism or just being hateful".

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Originally Posted by Rapsody

Just want to say thank you for the Rising. The music in the cities and in particular the letters from the Devs. Of course, the cameo from YoshiP himself is never to be missed. It was special and heartwarming. Thank you for caring about the game and the players.

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Good to see some positive feedback for a change.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

What I really dont get is that these same people dump all over the game all the time, complain about "corporate profits" etc..and yet here they are, paying for said game. The mogshop has some items, granted, but the fact is that the vast majority of items is ingame.

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Well, it always amazes me how people shill for a corporation they have no stakes in. As if pushing the envelope was this foreign concept in video game land for the last decades. "No, guys, horse armour is fine. It's just cosmetics. Reeee". lol C'mon.