Dawntrail Healer Change Predicitons

My predictions and hopes for White Mage changes are:

-unlock Secret of the Lily at an earlier level

-unlock Afflatus Rapture at an earlier level

-a reverse Freecure trait which makes Cure 2 possibly grant a free Cure 1 (or another Cure 2)

-give Assize a second charge

-increase damage potency of Afflatus Misery

-Dia 2 and Glare 4, maybe Holy 4

-decrease Presence of Mind's cooldown or increase its duration

White Mage: Supercure - heals 100% of health of the party. Cooldown 3 minutes.

Scholar: Irradiate - shines Light on party increasing healing gotten by 20% for 15 secs. Minute Cooldown.

Astro: Moist Star - regenerates health over time but accellerates healing if pressed again.

Sage: Buzzer - Deals Damage. Cooldown 5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I figure conversations about what changes and new actions people think the healers will receive for Dawntrail will probably start popping up in the near future, so here's a thread to dump them into.

Personally, I'm torn between pessimistic and very cautiously optimistic. Mainly because I cannot imagine that we will get even more healing cooldowns when we are already drowning in them, but then again, I also can't fathom how we got here in the first place, so perhaps that my ignorance.

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Unfortunately, I am very much in the jaded camp and suspect adding yet another healing cooldown is exactly what they're going to do. I suspect they'll lean more into the damage and healing archetype that Macrocosmos and Pneuma achieved. Which... I actually don't mind if they're so damn insistent on keeping this healing design. At least it's a GCD I actually want to press.

I'd very much love to be proven wrong though and we see some degree of complexity added back. Even if it's just a small amount. I just can't see them doing it.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Unfortunately, I am very much in the jaded camp and suspect adding yet another healing cooldown is exactly what they're going to do. I suspect they'll lean more into the damage and healing archetype that Macrocosmos and Pneuma achieved. Which... I actually don't mind if they're so damn insistent on keeping this healing design. At least it's a GCD I actually want to press.

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Assuming Glare goes to 320 as I'm expecting... Behold, the level 100 skill

Afflatus Purgation: Spell, 1.5s Cast, 120s Recast
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 320 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Restores HP to all nearby allies
Cure Potency: 600
Additional Effect: Regen
Cure Potency: 150
Duration: 12s

I feel ill typing this

Do you think it'll be as interesting as a line aoe? =(

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Assuming Glare goes to 320 as I'm expecting... Behold, the level 100 skill

Afflatus Purgation: Spell, 1.5s Cast, 120s Recast
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 320 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Restores HP to all nearby allies
Cure Potency: 600
Additional Effect: Regen
Cure Potency: 150
Duration: 12s

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JINX! :p

For Astro. I think the cards are going away. I know they are the core of Astro’s abilities but I still think they are going. Astro is way to busy with drawing cards and distributing them, plus healing and dealing damage. I for one have no issues with it. So don’t come for me. I’m not asking for it to be dumbed down but I believe that’s what will happen.

I think we will get 2 new abilities to replace draw and redraw. One where it will give the party the effects of balance (damage), arrow (attack speed) and spear (Crit) for 30 seconds on a 60 second cooldown. And the second one will give Ewer (MP regen), bole (defense), and spire (healing magic up) also on a 60 second cooldown and last 30 seconds. Can’t use both at the same time. Or they might just be forever buffs you can leave up and switch between as things happen to the party.

This will significantly cut down on the busyness or Astro. Something people has been asking for. Also they might replace the ability play with a skill like Royal road and it will be used to boost the effects of the buffs for 15 seconds on a 2 minute cooldown. I don’t think the 2 minute meta is going away. Even though most of us can’t stand it and want it gone. They will keep it around for 7.0 at least. May get rid of it in 8.0 though if people are still dissatisfied.

That’s my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Do you think it'll be as interesting as a line aoe? =(

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It'd mean they can copypaste the functionality of Pneuma, staple a regen onto the healing portion, and copypaste the laser VFX from PVP

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

JINX! :p

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That we both had the same idea for 'WHM level 100 skill' be 'the flashy cool looking laser from PVP' is not surprising, partially because it has the 'flashiness' of a capstone, while also being super easy to implement because above reasons

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

I think we will get 2 new abilities to replace draw and redraw. One where it will give the party the effects of balance (damage), arrow (attack speed) and spear (Crit) for 30 seconds on a 60 second cooldown. And the second one will give Ewer (MP regen), bole (defense), and spire (healing magic up) also on a 60 second cooldown and last 30 seconds. Can’t use both at the same time. Or they might just be forever buffs you can leave up and switch between as things happen to the party.

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The effects of Balance/Arrow/Spear in this format would have to be literally 1% for this to be even remotely balanceable, and even then, BRD gives 1% damage for about 40-45s out of 120, 2% crit for same timeframe, 3% DHIT for same timeframe. But the difference is, it gives those buffs in sequence, not 'they are all up at once'. If anything, 1% of each on AST, assuming 50% uptime as you say, would still be far too much, and so AST's personal damage would have to take a knock. It's far too late for me to math out how much of a knock, but I'd imagine it's something like nerfing Combust's ticks from 60 down to 50 (which results in 200p less per minute), that or removing the damage from Earthly Star (150) because they probably have data somewhere that says 'its too hard for casuals and they feel pressured to use the heal tool for damage' or some such. Actually I guess you could knock Div down from 6% to, say, 4%. But the problem would remain: AST's buff effects are hard to 'feel' because the difference between card and not-carded damage is so un-noticeable without a parser, having the effects be 'longer duration but lower %' makes them even more invisible

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Assuming Glare goes to 320 as I'm expecting... Behold, the level 100 skill

Afflatus Purgation: Spell, 1.5s Cast, 120s Recast
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 320 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Restores HP to all nearby allies
Cure Potency: 600
Additional Effect: Regen
Cure Potency: 150
Duration: 12s

I feel ill typing this

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Do you think it'll be as interesting as a line aoe? =(

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I mean, I could see them doing this as a "combo action" of Misery where you press the button a second time. Take a page from RDM's Scorch -> Resolution playbook.

Actions I would want Dawntrail to have for WHM, something interesting

Blood lily - 2 or 3 full bloom (Parallel to BLM's Polyglot Gauge since this is the antithesis to the class in the magi war)

Afflatus Purgation - Spell, Instant Cast, 2000 MP
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 600 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Potency is increased to 880 when you are under the effect of Afflatus Purgation Ready
Additional Effect: Stun
Duration: 1s
Ignores target's Stun resistance.
Halts the generation of new lilies.
Duration: 10s

Asylum:
Additional Effect: Grants 1 lily

Afflatus Misery - Spell, Instant Cast, Can only be executed when the Blood Lily is in full bloom.
Deals unaspected damage to target and all enemies nearby it with a potency of [Most recent Glare Trait potency x 4] for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Grants Afflatus Purgation Ready

Secret of the Lily III Trait:
Reduces the recast time of Thin Air by 10s every time an Afflatus Spell is used


What I expect/predict for WHM

Glare IV:
Potency increased to 320.
Holy IV:
Potency increased to 170.

Enhanced Assize: 2 charges
Enhanced Tetragrammaton: 2 charges

Afflatus Purgation - Spell, Instant Cast, 120s cd
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of [Glare IV] for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Regen
Cure Potency: 250
Duration: 12s

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

What I expect/predict for WHM

Glare IV:
Potency increased to 320.
Holy IV:
Potency increased to 170.

Enhanced Assize: 2 charges
Enhanced Tetragrammaton: 2 charges

Afflatus Purgation - Spell, Instant Cast, 120s cd
Deals unaspected damage to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of [Glare IV] for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.
Additional Effect: Regen
Cure Potency: 250
Duration: 12s

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- No chance does Holy jump past 160, the game would be so imbalanced /s

- Assize/Tetra 2 charges are years late at this point like goddamn

- I cannot get over this Purgation suggestion, I don't know if it's intentional, but Medica 2 currently totals 1000. You've got 'the awe inspiring level 100 WHM skill' as 'damage neutral Medica 2, but you need a target and also it's a 2min CD'.
And the best part is, that sounds like exactly the kind of stale bread SE would throw WHM. Like, the idea is so boring that it's the perfect suggestion if the goal was 'get it approved by the design teams' lmao
At least mine's 1200 so it's 'a little bit better than [Med2 but need target and 2min CD]' but yeh, I just love how we're all on this mental bandwagon of 'what is the absolutely most vanilla, no, literal frozen water suggestion for a capstone? I know, 2min CD that is just a damage neutral version of something we have already'. Fits right in with how Rapture's just Med1 with damage neutrality, or Solace and Cure2

I mean that’s basically what pneuma is already and for some reason people absolutely loved it (don’t ask me why)

Sure it’s on a shield healer but it’s basically just a patchwork fix to the fact that SCH can recite indom to force it to crit, as a level 90 skill it’s pathetic considering SCH can already do it at level 76 and SCH’s 90 skill is actually good

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean that’s basically what pneuma is already and for some reason people absolutely loved it (don’t ask me why)

Sure it’s on a shield healer but it’s basically just a patchwork fix to the fact that SCH can recite indom to force it to crit, as a level 90 skill it’s pathetic considering SCH can already do it at level 76 and SCH’s 90 skill is actually good

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Keep in mind that Pneuma is a damage neutral attack but is also a pretty strong heal, which can be boostd even higher with Zoe, is an AOE (line) attack that can hit more enemies,...and...well...it's also...a big laswer and people like that... <_<

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Keep in mind that Pneuma is a damage neutral attack but is also a pretty strong heal, which can be boostd even higher with Zoe, is an AOE (line) attack that can hit more enemies,...and...well...it's also...a big laswer and people like that... <_<

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Of which nothing really there matters, sure it can be boosted with Zoe but it’s not like SGE is lacking on high potency free heals, it still remains a poor patchwork counter to critdom

As for it being a line AOE that would be even mildly interesting if they ever did interesting add’s phase but melee doesn’t like adds phases so they are dead in the water, even then if an adds phase made pneuma more interesting to use you are wasting its heal for damage which square doesn’t like us doing (it’s only the entire healer rioting 3 expansions running that has kept ED alive)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

melee doesn’t like adds phases so they are dead in the water,

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???

Why would the role that, other than maybe Physical Ranged, most easily respond to and exploit add phases... dislike add phases?

I would like to see a few things for White Mage is to give it the Summoner treatment with how things upgrade over time.

I would like to see Stoneskin return and then upgrade to Divine Bension at its current level. Bring back Protect and then upgrade it to Aquaveil later at its current level. This gives it OCD barriers during the CNJ stage of the job.

I would then like to see Aero III make a return (and then upgraded to Banish, Banish II etc). I would then love to see an AOE added at level 15 and following the CNJ theme call it Quake or something earth related and then upgrade it to Holy, Holy II etc later. I miss when we had Blizzard II for low-level dungeon AOEing.

At a higher level, I would like to see more usage with our lilies - even if it is just a lily version of all of our GCD heals assuming they switch the buttons automatically and make Misery an OGCD so we can press it the second we get three blood lilies so we don't cap them healing back to back. A gap closer would be nice - I am assuming all of the healers will get them and other jobs soon and naturally should be at a lower level although I do see it being the 9x skills.

For the other healers, I would like to see similar treatment as a lot of skills you get at a higher level than you should and all should be able to AOE in the first dungeon of the game.

Edit: Forgot to add but I would also like to see a skill glamour some so you can design which version of the upgraded skill you want to use. So you could select Stone IV animation to be used in Glare's IV place etc.

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Originally Posted by Snat

I would then love to see an AOE added at level 15 and following the CNJ theme call it Quake or something earth related and then upgrade it to Holy, Holy II etc later. I miss when we had Blizzard II for low-level dungeon AOEing.

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Something I've proposed for a while:

CNJ learn "Water" at level 15. It used to learn Fluid Aura at that level, so it would be fitting. The Water spell, here, would be an AOE like Vivi's version of the spell in FF9 where it bubbles up into the air then bursts doing water damage. Have it then, at level 45, upgrade via trait to Holy. It'd only be for 30 levels, but this would give us a water spell for at least a little while and serve as an AOE attack for CNJ/WHM from level 15-45 when it gets Holy. Seemed a tidy solution to me, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

???

Why would the role that, other than maybe Physical Ranged, most easily respond to and exploit add phases... dislike add phases?

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funny coloured numbers

I just had a terrible thought about the AST rework, what if they redesigned Earthly Star into Assize? It's a very real possibility that they might think the timing aspect of the skill would be harder for new players to use, so they might just make it an instant explosion of healing and damage like Assize.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

funny coloured numbers

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Hitting adds, by nature of a greater number of hits, are less prone to RNG-based differences between parses.

So, which is it? Are melee/ffloggers somehow the reason we were 'forced' to have less luck-based variation between runs by way of more guaranteed-crits, or are they the reason we can't have things that would have much more split and even damage, which would do the same?

Again, most melee would see increased advantage over other jobs from the inclusion of more sudden and high counts of adds. 'Pandering to melee' is not the reason we've seen fewer adds waves in raids.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Hitting adds, by nature of a greater number of hits, are less prone to RNG-based differences between parses.

So, which is it? Are melee/ffloggers somehow the reason we were 'forced' to have less luck-based variation between runs by way of more guaranteed-crits, or are they the reason we can't have things that would have much more split and even damage, which would do the same?

Again, most melee would see increased advantage over other jobs from the inclusion of more sudden and high counts of adds. 'Pandering to melee' is not the reason we've seen fewer adds waves in raids.

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Melee disliking adds phases is far older than the excessive RNG damage problems we have now, all the way back at T4 if you happened to be let into a party on DRG or MNK (hard when triple BRD was almost meta) you despised T4, A2 was similar as was seiryu (I honestly can’t remember if they counted damage in adds for tsyukoyomi)

I’ve never maimed melee so I can only guess at the reason (melee tend to have weak and unbalanced AOE’s compared to say DNC/BLM/SMN) but it’s an old phenomenon that melee don’t like adds phases

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Melee disliking adds phases is far older than the excessive RNG damage problems we have now, all the way back at T4 if you happened to be let into a party on DRG or MNK (hard when triple BRD was almost meta) you despised T4, A2 was similar as was seiryu (I honestly can’t remember if they counted damage in adds for tsyukoyomi)

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Did fine in each of those fights as MNK and DRG (and as NIN and SAM on Seiryu)...

MNK and DRG in T4 and A2S were a non-issue unless running high-SkS, from the simple fact that this game has always and continues to screw over the resource-efficiency of its Speed stats (and AoEs were very TP-intensive back then, especially DRG's).

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’ve never mained melee so I can only guess at the reason (melee tend to have weak and unbalanced AOE’s compared to say DNC/BLM/SMN) but it’s an old phenomenon that melee don’t like adds phases

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No, historically melee had some of the strongest sustained AoE short of unintentional outliers like ARR BLM (Flare and F2 were nerfed thereafter) and HW SMN (Bane was nerfed thereafter). The limitations were simply TP, but Bard and MCH were even more thereby screwed, Holy trucked WHM's MP (despite it originally outpacing BLM over 6-7 GCDs, especially if said BLM had no Ether or Convert), and SCH's and SMN's AoE was limited to Bane, Miasma II, and an infrequent Trance.

Melee did not hate AoE fights. They did just fine in AoE fights. And with TP having been removed, they (and Rangers) lack their main historical weakness.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Did fine in each of those fights as MNK and DRG (and as NIN and SAM on Seiryu)...

MNK and DRG in T4 and A2S were a non-issue unless running high-SkS, from the simple fact that this game has always and continues to screw over the resource-efficiency of its Speed stats (and AoEs were very TP-intensive back then, especially DRG's).



No, historically melee had some of the strongest sustained AoE short of unintentional outliers like ARR BLM (Flare and F2 were nerfed thereafter) and HW SMN (Bane was nerfed thereafter). The limitations were simply TP, but Bard and MCH were even more thereby screwed, Holy trucked WHM's MP (despite it originally outpacing BLM over 6-7 GCDs, especially if said BLM had no Ether or Convert), and SCH's and SMN's AoE was limited to Bane, Miasma II, and an infrequent Trance.

Melee did not hate AoE fights. They did just fine in AoE fights. And with TP having been removed, they (and Rangers) lack their main historical weakness.

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I’ll admit you and I have very different memories of that time period but things were very fragmented back then and the fact you actually did the fights on melee means I’m fine to defer to your judgment on this, I’m just going on what I’ve always “known” from what people who ran melees back then told me (and of course TP) but if you say it’s not so I’m fine to take that

I’m not immune to change

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’ll admit you and I have very different memories of that time period but things were very fragmented back then and the fact you actually did the fights on melee means I’m fine to defer to your judgment on this, I’m just going on what I’ve always “known” from what people who ran melees back then told me (and of course TP) but if you say it’s not so I’m fine to take that

I’m not immune to change

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Fair enough.

I just get annoyed when we've got Problem A, and there's an obvious Cause B, and yet people will focus on Tangential, Unlikely, and Insufficient Reason C.

We have fewer add phases in raids now.

Given what other changes we've seen across the game, this seems in keeping with the devs' vibe of "Why bother? It might make something at least infinitesimally harder to balance if we included it. Just simplify."

That it could possibly have anything to do with Melee is contrary to their historical net performance, what reasons were behind their individual weaknesses, isn't sufficient in itself to explain changing the whole course of raids... so why are we distracting from the far more likely causes, let alone the issue itself, with some weird twist on (gear-)class warfare?

Fixating on that possibility so removed from the problem itself just doesn't make any sense to me, especially when the decrease in add phases predate Endwalker, add phases are generally to melees' advantage, tighter hitboxes just Melees' space is actually reserved for them (inadvertently reducing their chance of being PKed), and all but being forced (by the mechanic, not by party idiocy) to stack outside of melee range is generally fine to melee, etc., etc.

/shrug
/endrant

My only prediction is that the devs are gonna skip Glare and Holy 4 and give us Glare and Holy 5.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I just had a terrible thought about the AST rework, what if they redesigned Earthly Star into Assize? It's a very real possibility that they might think the timing aspect of the skill would be harder for new players to use, so they might just make it an instant explosion of healing and damage like Assize.

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They can solve the timing issue while retaining it's 'skill' by having the AST that placed the Star gain stacks of 'Growing Dominance', one per second, up to a total of 10, and the 10th turns the full stack into 'Giant Dominance'. Then, have Star's damage and healing scale with a base amount (as it has now), and a capped amount (as it has now) from Giant Dominance, with the intermediary points calculated based on the stacks gained. So, if the Star currently goes from 100-150p in damage, have 100 as the base damage, and grant 5 potency per stack, such that detonating it at 7 stacks would deal 135p. Same for healing. I don't care much about the damage part, but it bloody sucks when you detonate it at 10, and the game hasn't registered the debuff needs to convert, so it says on your UI that it's 'big star' but it gives 'small star' numbers of healing. Let me have a smooth gradient of empowering the healing instead of this 'all or nothing' we have now thank you

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Originally Posted by Amenara

My only prediction is that the devs are gonna skip Glare and Holy 4 and give us Glare and Holy 5.

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Nah, we're hitting level 100! We should treat ourselves.

WHM will get Glare, Holy, and Cure X at level 92, and then X-II at level 100 as an ultimate upgrade for reaching level 100, with a whopping 5 potency increase for each step as compared to their previous incarnations, but at least they made a fun reference to another FF game, right?

To that end:

SCHs will get an ability that eats their entire book, disabling them from using any abilities other than Eos-based abilities for 30 seconds, but increasing Eos' healing output by 30%. This will be in contrast to SMN, who will eat their book and become an avatar of their summons.

AST will get what WHM was originally supposed to get at level 100, Arise, but they'll call it Equinox and it will only provide its full healing potency (2-4% of max HP on target's incapacitation) based on an internal RNG that improves if the target was a melee DPS or ranged DPS at the time of casting (based on Eorzean time of day), meanwhile AST will lose a flat 50 potency on all of their personal damage tools to compensate, taking effect as soon as they get the ability.

At level 96, SGE will get the ability to perform a melee-ranged, single target "surgery" (translated: shoot another laser) in battle to inflict a context-sensitive debuff with no major effects attached to it, and later get a trait at level 100 to increase the potency of Pneuma by 5% if the enemy has that debuff. The debuff will last for 10 seconds, and the surgery will be on the GCD and deal no damage of its own.

/s, I hope

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

SCHs will get an ability that eats their entire book, disabling them from using any abilities other than Eos-based abilities for 30 seconds, but increasing Eos' healing output by 30%. This will be in contrast to SMN, who will eat their book and become an avatar of their summons.

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I mean...not gonna lie, that sounds a lot more fun and...well...GOOD than current Dissipation.

For 30 seconds, I can't use Adlo, Succor, or (lol?) Physic, and my Faerie abilities hit like a truck? I mean...that sounds kind of cool, actually. Would need a little tweak. For example, my SCH idea (shameless plug: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-Proposal-SCH ) was to have Energy Drain and (basically) Lustrate use Faerie Gauge (Lustrate being what Aetherpact turns into in this case), so your example mixed with that, add one more thing "for the 30 seconds, you have unlimited Faerie Gauge) would be amazing. For 30 seconds, you can rapid fire off Energy Drains while spot healing with Lustrate and still have Fey Blessing, Fey Illumination, and Whispering Dawn?

That...doesn't actually sound BAD, honestly. I'm sure it wouldn't be balanced at all and would screw with people that judge their worth by always having a GCD rolling, but it actually sounds fun machine gunning Energy Drains and Lustrates. :D

The SMN one is honestly what we do already. Just stand in melee range when you do Titan Phase and you have that same experience. :)

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I mean...not gonna lie, that sounds a lot more fun and...well...GOOD than current Dissipation.

For 30 seconds, I can't use Adlo, Succor, or (lol?) Physic, and my Faerie abilities hit like a truck?)

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I read it as 'Ability' type skills, ie, no SCH-based OGCDs, so no Indom, Soil, Protraction, etc, which would be rough to work around, as Eos alone isn't gonna keep up even with 30% boosted healing

If it works like as you said though, that'd mean that it's every non-fairy skill regardless of it's weaponskill/spell/ability flags, in which case, no Broil for 30s? lol

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I read it as 'Ability' type skills, ie, no SCH-based OGCDs, so no Indom, Soil, Protraction, etc, which would be rough to work around, as Eos alone isn't gonna keep up even with 30% boosted healing

If it works like as you said though, that'd mean that it's every non-fairy skill regardless of it's weaponskill/spell/ability flags, in which case, no Broil for 30s? lol

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What's that meme? "Stop! I can only get so..."?

I mean, it'd be one way to cut down on Broilspam. ;)

I guess it depends on how often you're using that other stuff. A lot of stuff you can heal with Whispering Dawn and Fey Blessing. (Like...way more than we've any right to be healing with just those things alone... <_< ), but yeah, you're right. I was just thinking of something that let you machine gun Energy Drains while throwing out bomb Faerie heals on people 1/4th of the time. :) Still sounds way more fun than current Dissipation.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

X-II
"surgery" (translated: shoot another laser)

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Glare X-2: Yuna's story

Sage will get "Lobotomy" - makes you forget the decline of FFXIV /s

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Originally Posted by BRVV

Glare X-2: Yuna's story

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Every WHM:
https://media.tenor.com/oUoTVdWL4OoAAAAC/yuna-ffx2.gif

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Sage will get "Lobotomy" - makes you forget the decline of FFXIV /s

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Soon(tm).

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I read it as 'Ability' type skills, ie, no SCH-based OGCDs, so no Indom, Soil, Protraction, etc, which would be rough to work around, as Eos alone isn't gonna keep up even with 30% boosted healing

If it works like as you said though, that'd mean that it's every non-fairy skill regardless of it's weaponskill/spell/ability flags, in which case, no Broil for 30s? lol

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To answer both of you, my original intent was that it would disable anything that wasn't a "pet action" according to the Job Guide. I guess, as a bonus, attributing to Squeen's famous short-sightedness with SCH, we could make an exception and allow Dissipation to be used during that time, but it would not end the 30 second "buff." We'll call that skill "Frolic" since that's basically what you will be doing for those 30 seconds.

I think they might just delete AST cards and say "We couldn't really think of anything to do with them so we just got rid of them". They will not however go back and change any of the lore or job quests because whatever it's a healer no one on the team cares.

Honestly I believe the cards are getting removed too. They are just way to much trouble to balance.

I don't see them removing cards. It's the core identity of the class, it's on the job's artwork and is a prominent piece of the weapon. If they remove them, there would be outcry bigger than BowMage, I think. If they say they cannot balance them, then it's time to hire someone who can. It'd also be a massive kick in the nethers to everyone who loved old AST, who was told that we have to 'put up and shut up' and accept the 'all cards are the same damage buff' design because 'this way it can be balanced properly', if THIS can't be balanced either, then give us back the fun version. If we're not getting balance either way, we might as well at least have fun with it right?

If I, a random idiot ranting on a forum for a 10 year old MMO, can manage to get the card effects to be unique in nature AND roughly on par with each other in terms of projected damage contribution, then Multidollar Company sure as hell can. They should try announcing such a change at FanFest. I'm sure everyone will be thrilled to hear the news

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

I don't see them removing cards. It's the core identity of the class, it's on the job's artwork and is a prominent piece of the weapon. If they remove them, there would be outcry bigger than BowMage, I think. If they say they cannot balance them, then it's time to hire someone who can. It'd also be a massive kick in the nethers to everyone who loved old AST, who was told that we have to 'put up and shut up' and accept the 'all cards are the same damage buff' design because 'this way it can be balanced properly', if THIS can't be balanced either, then give us back the fun version. If we're not getting balance either way, we might as well at least have fun with it right?

If I, a random idiot ranting on a forum for a 10 year old MMO, can manage to get the card effects to be unique in nature AND roughly on par with each other in terms of projected damage contribution, then Multidollar Company sure as hell can. They should try announcing such a change at FanFest. I'm sure everyone will be thrilled to hear the news

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The idea that they further homogenised the boring ShB classes into the EW classes for the sake of balance and the balance is still terrible is a serious problem with modern jobs

They makes them more boring to make them easier to balance then they still can’t balance them

If you can’t balance them at least admit it and give us back the fun classes, nobody likes homogenised classes that also aren’t balanced

I thought of a way to make the card system extremely boring and also extremely rigid in the 2 minute meta, which makes it a very likely thing that they'd do.

New Actions
Play Arcanum - 30s CD:
Increases damage dealt by self and nearby party members within 30y by 2%. Grants self a Solar, Lunar or Celestial Sign. Will not grant repeat signs. When 3 signs are collected, grants "Divination Ready" and action changes into Divination. (All signs are filled when entering an instance and when a fight resets) (Shares a recast timer with Divination)

Changed Actions
Divination:
Increases damage dealt by self and nearby party members within 30y by 6%. (Action cannot be assigned to the hotbar) (Shares a recast timer with Play Arcanum)

[This is a joke, don't send me hate mail.]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The idea that they further homogenised the boring ShB classes into the EW classes for the sake of balance and the balance is still terrible is a serious problem with modern jobs.

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I feel like it's less that balance is terrible by any consistent numeric standard of deviation... so much as that we've gotten more picky for good reasons.

That is, because the value a job brings has been pruned away to be increasingly represented by just a graph or two regardless of the fight and job mastery has been simplified enough that one can readily expect a decent player on Job A to just swap to Job B if the latter were better for a given fight, it's only natural that even a very small throughput disparity overall would be seen as a reasonable enough indicator of likely performance that party leaders may try to up their chances of success by pruning jobs with lower ceilings or lower throughput-per-effort-put-in (as perceived by the average player and/or shown through percentile gaps, etc.).

There are exceptions to this, of course, but they follow similar trends: Difficulty, outside of perhaps BLM, is not sufficiently rewarded and the devs seem t(r)end towards reducing contextuality and thereby avoid any sort of variable difficulties they might otherwise have to compensate for (see ever-increasing simplification of job gameplay, obese boss hitboxes, etc.).

While that tightens ease of balance between fights on paper, those same changes can often, as a side-effect, reduce the tolerance players have for imbalances, making a 2% rDPS+aDPS disparity, for example, as big a deal now as a 5% disparity may have been in the past, since no job can bring any significant value not seemingly accounted for in those metrics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I feel like it's less that balance is terrible by any consistent numeric standard of deviation... so much as that we've gotten more picky for good reasons.

That is, because the value a job brings has been pruned away to be increasingly represented by just a graph or two regardless of the fight and job mastery has been simplified enough that one can readily expect a decent player on Job A to just swap to Job B if the latter were better for a given fight, it's only natural that even a very small throughput disparity overall would be seen as a reasonable enough indicator of likely performance that party leaders may try to up their chances of success by pruning jobs with lower ceilings or lower throughput-per-effort-put-in (as perceived by the average player and/or shown through percentile gaps, etc.).

There are exceptions to this, of course, but they follow similar trends: Difficulty, outside of perhaps BLM, is not sufficiently rewarded and the devs seem t(r)end towards reducing contextuality and thereby avoid any sort of variable difficulties they might otherwise have to compensate for (see ever-increasing simplification of job gameplay, obese boss hitboxes, etc.).

While that tightens ease of balance between fights on paper, those same changes can often, as a side-effect, reduce the tolerance players have for imbalances, making a 2% rDPS+aDPS disparity, for example, as big a deal now as a 5% disparity may have been in the past, since no job can bring any significant value not seemingly accounted for in those metrics.

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I’ll pay that as a better explanation of the point I was going for

Outside of P8 who actually had balance problems we now just notice smaller balance differences more because nobody has anything to compensate for being weaker on the rDPS front

Regardless it’s still a problem: outside of actual limited cases (2.0 WAR and 3.0 PLD/AST come to mind immediately) there is legit arguments to be made that the tighter (on average) balance isn’t worth every class playing exactly the same as each other even if it theoretically makes Balance easier (though they have got to fix how bad crit variance has gotten this expansion)

Predications?
More useless healing skills, Likely remove Dots, remove astro Cards fully or make them heal or something boring, Even less outgoing damage to be more new player friendly.

Hopes? dreams?
Cut down on healing spells, Some Extra Damage spells (nothing like a full rotation or anything, as id want them to lean on more damage outgoing then turning healers into green dps, but some extra dps complexity is nice), Astro cards not reverted but made more interesting, More outgoing damage to compensate for the 6.0 major tank buffs + Bonus Nerf Warriors AOE self healing in casual content, should be single target like paladins self healing spells.