PLD changes; thoughts?

Players in general dislike change, and reworks will always be controversial.

The bigger question to ask is what has been removed. PLD has consistently had by far the most bloated action counts out of any tank, as a relic of the Stormblood rework. The reason why PLD has one less 'personal' defensive ability than the other tanks (from the set of Camo/Thrill/DM) is because it has one extra raidwide defensive with PoA. There's mention in the Famitsu article about trigger conditions being a problem with PLD. This makes me wonder if Bulwark is going to replace DV with PoA taking over as the job specific raidwide defensive.

I also wonder what's going to become of the lifesteal on Holy Spirit, now that you'll have one after every combo. It'll be interesting to see if the bonus cast is interchangeable with Clemency.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Players in general dislike change, and reworks will always be controversial.

The bigger question to ask is what has been removed. PLD has consistently had by far the most bloated action counts out of any tank, as a relic of the Stormblood rework. The reason why PLD has one less 'personal' defensive ability than the other tanks (from the set of Camo/Thrill/DM) is because it has one extra raidwide defensive with PoA. There's mention in the Famitsu article about trigger conditions being a problem with PLD. This makes me wonder if Bulwark is going to replace DV with PoA taking over as the job specific raidwide defensive.

I also wonder what's going to become of the lifesteal on Holy Spirit, now that you'll have one after every combo. It'll be interesting to see if the bonus cast is interchangeable with Clemency.

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I understand the general dislike, I think a lot of people got to realise that while current PLD is fun to a lot of people (me included), but that the job just doesn't fit under the current game, the benefits it does provide are lacking right now, a lot of the outcry about "2 minute meta" comes from people who will also complain about dps differences, 2 minute meta like it or not was a result in a lot of complaints people made, now jobs such as PLD cannot really exist inside the meta, the PLD rework makes a lot of sense from the ground up as its generally been known as the jank least popular tank job for a while now.

I think they will likely make veil shake it off it seems way easier to fix it that way then remove it, I don't know about POA, I'm either thinking it's likely going to be similar to white mage wings or it could be removed, I think they would have mentioned out right important removing stuff, I don't think PLD would be "busted" if it had two raid wides eitherway.

With space they might likely make req turn into confit, I think this makes the most sense, they could also be removing shield bash or something like that, I feel like they're definitely going to "make space" for Bulwark one way or another. I think they could also make more space with reworking holy spirit into a cleave, now that Holy shelltron isn't a block you could also make Holy shelltron targetable (removing intervention), theirs so many space changers which can happen.

I don't really think that the 'two minute meta' was the problem. If it was just a matter of damage output, then that would have been iteratively addressed with potencies. The real problem is that players were using the age old 'complexity' argument to justify why PLD should have a dps advantage over the other tanks, in a throwback to its Stormblood launch glory days. It's unsurprising that this is the result. GLD and MRD are the two tank classes that complete beginners have access to on booting up the game for the first time, and if the 'general perception' is that they're 'too complex', then that's a problem. You're deterring new players from tanking.

The dps will likely be rebalanced anyways. But the primary goal of this rework is accessibility. And if you were satisfied with the level of 'challenge' that the job previously provided, you can thank this very subforum for wielding the Monkey's Paw in such a spectacularly predictable fashion.

That being said, I think PLD did need a second look. Some design elements like DV's activation were just clunky, and others are just vestigial (i.e. Shield Bash, as you've mentioned). While DV itself is simple to fix (just make it activate like Shake), I think that it's hard to justify the additional raidwide mitigation tool over other tanks, especially when you consider how important those raidwides can be. And they're likely going to be looking at ways to bring button counts back to the average, rather than keep them inflated.

It was generally 2 minute "meta" that changed the PLD, as they saw it not really perform under raid buffs as well, to be fair they would have likely at least made adjustments to PLD's defensives as they're very lacking either way, but I feel like they woulda changed PLD sooner if they had more plans to (I just feel like the 2 minute meta painted a big red rework here sign on PLDS back).

I think PLD's likely to keep their raid wides still, while it would be strong it's not outright busted, keep in PLD does actually suffer from still having the longest invul in the game (unless they change that), I think divine veil is a safe bet that it will stay, passage of arms seems to be a bit harder to rework into a functional ability, I don't really know though again i think they could just borrow a bit from white mage here, either way I think we will still have two raid wides, could be totally wrong here, but I don't think PLD would even need a reduction in raid wides. Though I could just see them remove passage of arms if they really felt like PLD would be too good? I don't know really doesn't seem needed.

I think they will be making space theirs so many things they will remove for "bloat reasons" before raid wides, Shield bash? likely gone, cover might be reworked or removed (finally it just needs something?), cutting down on hotbar actions by merging (such as req turning into confit, holy spirit cleaving, Holy shelltron/intervention merge) I could at least think of 4-5 abilities that would/could be done before cutting down actually important stuff to the job.

I don't mind the changes too much from what we've seen (I'm indeed not a PLD spreedsheet gamer sadly) personally, I'm pretty sad that dots are gone, I just hope atonement and alternating combos aren't gone, I like PLD's for its general different combos and buttons, while PLD is currently a bit strict and set it's also very varied in how it feels compared to something like war/drk, I understand the rework and if they want to add stuff like holy spirits mid rotation and try things that might give it a more "lose" feel I'm fine with it aslong as it feels fun and enjoyable, but at the same time I do worry if the rework does feel the same as other tanks, Not to mention i felt like PLD's identity as a "shield tank" really didn't feel right being so weak defensively

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Originally Posted by Lyth

That being said, I think PLD did need a second look. Some design elements like DV's activation were just clunky, and others are just vestigial (i.e. Shield Bash, as you've mentioned). While DV itself is simple to fix (just make it activate like Shake), I think that it's hard to justify the additional raidwide mitigation tool over other tanks, especially when you consider how important those raidwides can be. And they're likely going to be looking at ways to bring button counts back to the average, rather than keep them inflated.

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Maybe a hot take, but I don't think stuff like Shield Bash should be removed. I think it's perfectly fine to have buttons that have no application to raid gameplay, because removing those buttons removes opportunities to find uses for them in non-raid gameplay. Criterion is an opportunity to have trash etc that are actually enjoyable to deal with, but they *can't* really do that due to the lack of utility among most classes.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

because removing those buttons removes opportunities

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as a Samurai Player, this is my Main Problem with FFXIV's current Gameplay Direction. But I don't wanna comment here with that wash right now.
Imo I thought they just would remove FoF and Req, turn them into Traits, getting a flatout stronger 1-2-3 Combo and the Removal of Cast Times.
though I love the Confiteur Combo (of course), I'm not really a fan of pressing the same Button 4times (because I already do this in the combat macros, I written myself and are oGCDs unlike the Confiteur Combo which are GCDs...)
.. so why not Press Confiteur and after that the 1-2-3 Combo turns into the Valor Combo.. oh and another thing I noticed that the Valor DoT and Scorn DoT working side by side and the Goring DoT and the Scorn DoT working side by side.. but Goring and Valor!? NOPE!.. clunky.. well the Goring and Valor DoTs getting gutted so I better sell my ideas to some fanfic author or something.. another thing I'm thinking about was why Spirits Within doesn't share the Cool Down with Scorn?.. well okay since Spirits has become Expiacion it's kind of like Circle of Scorn without the DoT.. huh.. well imo Expiacion is a redundant Skill.. but as Tanks we do not really need to care about Single Target/AoE Situations so I think that's why they turned a Single Target Skill into an AoE Skill.. and yeah I agree that DV should just work like Shake, it's kinda cute that you have to activate it by getting healed but not even recieving the def cd as the Caster was stupid..

Sorry for my Paladin Change fanfiction, but I felt like writting something.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Maybe Req is deleted, and Confiteor is a flat 60s CD that triggers Blades, so that's a replacement 10s duration combo for the raidbuff window? So our combo use would either be Confiteor, 2 Gorings and 3 RAs, or Confiteor, 3 Gorings, 2 RAs, based on how much MP restore Blade combo and Atonement combo give us. This would also allow us to shift the RA and Goring's around within that 50s, to better accomodate downtime (assuming they don't just make the bosses 100% uptime for the rest of forever)

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Boredom struck

https://i.gyazo.com/62fc43367ad450cf...5d57445f91.png

Maybe I should apply to SE for 'number balancing guy' position, it doesn't seem all too difficult (rotation on left is 'slow PLD loop', first minute. Only difference between minutes 1 2 and 3 in the rotation is how many Royal vs Atones are in FOF, but since they're equal potency, doesn't affect the maths). This assumes the following: FOF is dead, Req is now a GCD that later upgrades into Confiteor, Conf/Blades are zero MP cost, Holy Spirit costs 2000MP, Royal and Atonement generate 500MP each, the rest of the required MP to stay MP neutral coming from natural regen. If Req remains as an OGCD that allows 4 Holy Spirits to be empowered, then potencies would be different. You'll have to mentally replace one 'Fast, Riot, Goring, HolySpirit' block with 'Req, HS x4'. If they had told us which moves were removed/kept, but nope, so I'm going with my copium. Yes it looks more bland to play than the DOT version, take it up with SE not me. Also yes Confiteor combo is 4 hits of 1000 potency in a row, we have to make the class have a strong bUrSt wInDoW so take that up with SE too

edit: actually instead of buffing Intervene if people really want their 100 potency, buff Atonement by 50 per use, since it's used twice per loop

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Maybe a hot take, but I don't think stuff like Shield Bash should be removed. I think it's perfectly fine to have buttons that have no application to raid gameplay, because removing those buttons removes opportunities to find uses for them in non-raid gameplay. Criterion is an opportunity to have trash etc that are actually enjoyable to deal with, but they *can't* really do that due to the lack of utility among most classes.

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and you're against clemency why? like what even. Clemency even has more use cases inside raids and inside solo content, criterion, deep dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

and you're against clemency why? like what even. Clemency even has more use cases inside raids and inside solo content, criterion, deep dungeons.

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Clemency: now a trait called Knight's Clemency. When Sheltron's effect times out, or is overwritten, instantly heals the PLD for 500 cure potency. When Intervention times out or is overwritten, instantly heals the target for 500 cure potency, and the PLD for 250 cure potency. Once Holy Sheltron is learned, Knight's Clemency instant healing is applied alongside Knight's Benediction regen, for a total of 1500 cure potency per use of Holy Sheltron or Intervention.

I'm on a roll, but the question is if it's a good roll or a bad one

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

.. oh and another thing I noticed that the Valor DoT and Scorn DoT working side by side and the Goring DoT and the Scorn DoT working side by side.. but Goring and Valor!? NOPE!.. clunky..

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Isn’t that just because the blade combo occupies the gcds where you reapply goring in the shadowbringers rotation? CoS is entirely separate.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Isn’t that just because the blade combo occupies the gcds where you reapply goring in the shadowbringers rotation? CoS is entirely separate.

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Pretty much. I have no idea why people complained about the Goring and Valor DoT not stacking, the blade combo literally just replaced the goring combo you would've normally done after confiteor.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Pretty much. I have no idea why people complained about the Goring and Valor DoT not stacking, the blade combo literally just replaced the goring combo you would've normally done after confiteor.

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Usually it's the people that don't bother to learn rotations, or understand why a rotation works the way it does, nor think of knock on effects of changes with rotation alignments with raid buffs or don't care and just think, "this would be cool" ignoring the practical applications. So not really a big mystery why they ask, just gotta drown out the stupid, and listen to the people that show they actually play at a competent level.

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Originally Posted by fulminating

Isn’t that just because the blade combo occupies the gcds where you reapply goring in the shadowbringers rotation? CoS is entirely separate.

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yeah that might be true, I use FoF to boost CoS and Spirits Within Expiacion because those are physical+ have the same Cool Down and funnily I used up all my MP in Shadowbringers, just so I could go back to the 1-2-3 Combo and build MP until Req is back. Now I play PLD like this: have MP? Req+ HolySpam into Confiteor into Blades, out of MP? FoF+CoS+Expiacion+Goring Combo into 1-2-3 Combo into AtonementSpam and another Goring Combo to have a DoT while I do the Req Combo. Which works for me on Paper but in practice I still end up having MP after Blades, so I continue Spamming Holy Spirit, looking like a Caster (but Blue Mage can't be a Tank.. huh..) until I have no MP anymore.. the upcomming Problem for me is at that Point my Req is Back but I have no MP so I do the FoF Stuff while Req sits ready to use ._. it's just nitpicking from my side though it's all good, but true I had an easier time with the PLD rotation in Shadowbringers, funnily.

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

yeah that might be true, I use FoF to boost CoS and Spirits Within Expiacion because those are physical+ have the same Cool Down and funnily I used up all my MP in Shadowbringers, just so I could go back to the 1-2-3 Combo and build MP until Req is back. Now I play PLD like this: have MP? Req+ HolySpam into Confiteor into Blades, out of MP? FoF+CoS+Expiacion+Goring Combo into 1-2-3 Combo into AtonementSpam and another Goring Combo to have a DoT while I do the Req Combo. Which works for me on Paper but in practice I still end up having MP after Blades, so I continue Spamming Holy Spirit, looking like a Caster (but Blue Mage can't be a Tank.. huh..) until I have no MP anymore.. the upcomming Problem for me is at that Point my Req is Back but I have no MP so I do the FoF Stuff while Req sits ready to use ._. it's just nitpicking from my side though it's all good, but true I had an easier time with the PLD rotation in Shadowbringers, funnily.

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They changed MP cost of Holy Spirit because in SHB, if you were forced away from the boss, you would lose uptime of regenerating MP via Riot Blade, and potentially end up at your Req window with below 80% (meaning Req's effect didnt trigger). Now you only need 5000 MP to do your Confiteor thing, the other 5000 is not there to be spammed away with naked Holy Spirits (they're 300 potency, equal to combo'd Riot Blade), it's there as insurance, and a way to have 'some MP spare for Clemency if its really needed' without gimping your Req window. Hardcasting Holy Spirits without Req does really bad damage, messes with your MP management, and misaligns your 60s loop pretty bad from raidbuffs

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Originally Posted by RyuuZero

yeah that might be true, I use FoF to boost CoS and Spirits Within Expiacion because those are physical+ have the same Cool Down and funnily I used up all my MP in Shadowbringers, just so I could go back to the 1-2-3 Combo and build MP until Req is back. Now I play PLD like this: have MP? Req+ HolySpam into Confiteor into Blades, out of MP? FoF+CoS+Expiacion+Goring Combo into 1-2-3 Combo into AtonementSpam and another Goring Combo to have a DoT while I do the Req Combo. Which works for me on Paper but in practice I still end up having MP after Blades, so I continue Spamming Holy Spirit, looking like a Caster (but Blue Mage can't be a Tank.. huh..) until I have no MP anymore.. the upcomming Problem for me is at that Point my Req is Back but I have no MP so I do the FoF Stuff while Req sits ready to use ._. it's just nitpicking from my side though it's all good, but true I had an easier time with the PLD rotation in Shadowbringers, funnily.

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Because you don't continue using MP until you run out. They made PLD's magic combo cost less MP so that you can still Clemency after using it.

The combo is exactly the same as ShB with the exception of, after Confeiteor, you use Blade of Faith, Blade of Truth then Blade of Valor instead of Fast Blade, Riot Blade, Goring Blade. Do this and you find the rotation flows smoothly, with everything lining up. The only reason the blade combo has MP restoration is to make up for it replacing a Riot Blade, which would restore MP.

Even if you want to go off of potency, a Royal Authority + 3 Atonement is more potency per GCD than an unbuffed Holy Spirit cast. Even if you only use 2 Atonements to account for drift, it is still stronger per GCD than Holy Spirit. The only time Holy Spirit is stronger is when it is under Requiescat, which disappears once you use Confiteor, irregardless of how many stacks it has left.

Just because you didn't understand how things are meant to fit together in the rotation, doesn't then qualify that thing as being bad. Maybe, just maybe, learn how a job is supposed to function before you start blaming it for not making sense. PLD does have it's issues, however (in a vacuum) the rotation flow is not one of them.

While the PLD rotation had nothing complicated if you knew what you’re doing, I’m curious how the rework will play out. Hopefully they make it more interesting because what we have right now is rather bland in my eyes compared to other tanks.

It's hilarious they held back PLD changes. Square-Enix, what the fuck are you so scared of? Do you know, deep down, that you're going to piss off a lot of people with the changes? Because if you think the changes will be received positively, why would you hide them?

Shouldn't that be cause for you to reconsider what you're about to do?

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

It's hilarious they held back PLD changes. Square-Enix, what the fuck are you so scared of? Do you know, deep down, that you're going to piss off a lot of people with the changes? Because if you think the changes will be received positively, why would you hide them?

Shouldn't that be cause for you to reconsider what you're about to do?

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They never release job changes in the preliminary notes, you have to wait for the full notes when maintenance happens.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

They never release job changes in the preliminary notes, you have to wait for the full notes when maintenance happens.

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They did release them before. It stopped with what, early Shadowbringers?

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

They never release job changes in the preliminary notes, you have to wait for the full notes when maintenance happens.

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Yeah, I know. I'm saying it's ridiculous that a staggeringly successful developer is apparently living in stark, unmanning terror of... people being upset on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Yeah, I know. I'm saying it's ridiculous that a staggeringly successful developer is apparently living in stark, unmanning terror of... people being upset on the internet.

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Trust me, it annoys me as well. I was secretly hoping they would at least give a glimpse, but no luck.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Yeah, I know. I'm saying it's ridiculous that a staggeringly successful developer is apparently living in stark, unmanning terror of... people being upset on the internet.

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given how psychotic The Gamers(tm) can be, and how some of them are going to harass game developers on social media for the most innocuous things, the devs are more than justified in not wanting to deal with them in the weeks before a major patch.

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

given how psychotic The Gamers(tm) can be, and how some of them are going to harass game developers on social media for the most innocuous things, the devs are more than justified in not wanting to deal with them in the weeks before a major patch.

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Instead, they get harassed for *not* providing the information. Or, the opposite happens and they harass them because they think that because Yoshida appears on PLL's and does what is effectively marketing for the upcoming patch, they are best buddies and stuff.

Ever wonder how Blizzard handles people on the internet being upset? They just ignore them.

I do want to know the changes personally, but I've been waiting 4 months already to see how the new PLD is at this point IDM really waiting a few more days, I'll be critical of it if I dislike it and I'll praise good changes (like adding another defensive). Thing is these changes are needed to make the Job good, but I'd argue the main issue is we need to rework the "burst" meta so Jobs don't all have to be about "Bursting" I just think such a major change mid expansion to bursts doesn't sound likely.

I think honestly the main issue is Raid buffs, they're for the most part not even fun or unique to use outside buffs like astro cards, dragon sight, dance partner, bard songs. I think we need to generally actually rework/remove a lot of raid buffs so they can be more unique to the jobs that provide them, it will also allow comps/jobs to work more outside of raid buffs, but this strict 3-5% (or crit buff, idk it feels the same as a normal dps buff anyway...) 120 Raid party buff thing, it's really not healthy for any Job design. Honestly? like who at this point thinks pressing your 120 to synch up with other jobs makes the job *more* interesting.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Instead, they get harassed for *not* providing the information. Or, the opposite happens and they harass them because they think that because Yoshida appears on PLL's and does what is effectively marketing for the upcoming patch, they are best buddies and stuff.

Ever wonder how Blizzard handles people on the internet being upset? They just ignore them.

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you wanna use Blizzard as an example of how game devs should behave?

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

you wanna use Blizzard as an example of how game devs should behave?

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I was thinking the same thing lol wonder how many SA allegations did Blizzard ignore? guess Blizzard have a nasty habit of ignoring a lot of things, huh

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

you wanna use Blizzard as an example of how game devs should behave?

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Let's take a different example then that doesn't have the same amount of baggage, Bungie.

Say what you want about Destiny 2 but they give you updates about the game every week (called This Week at Bungie), they talk about new additions, upcoming changes, community events, etc.

And when they plan to make major changes to the game they explain in detail what they're changing and why they're doing it. They absolutely get shit for some of the changes from Angry Gamers™ but it hasn't stopped them from doing it.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Instead, they get harassed for *not* providing the information. Or, the opposite happens and they harass them because they think that because Yoshida appears on PLL's and does what is effectively marketing for the upcoming patch, they are best buddies and stuff.

Ever wonder how Blizzard handles people on the internet being upset? They just ignore them.

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I hope they take that to heart with some of the takes you've posted recently. Might do the game better.

But still, when we've known for years, what the outcome will be in regards to prelim patch notes vs final patch notes, why are people shocked and angered, that there is no job adjustments in the prelim, like seriously do people have nothing better to do than cry and b**** all day about something that they know is going to happen, then happens, honestly it's the most idiotic thing I've seen in a while.

"but this developer does this, or that developer does that" okay go play that developer's game instead if you're not happy, but SE aren't obligated to follow what every other developer do.

And seriously, if you can't wait three days after preliminary patch notes, even though you know this is how it works, then that's on you, not the developer.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

But still, when we've know for years, what the outcome will be in regards to prelim patch notes vs final patch notes, why are people shocked and angered, that there is no job adjustments in the prelim, like seriously do people have nothing better to do than cry and b**** all day about something that they know is going to happen, then happens, honestly it's the most idiotic thing I've seen in a while.

"but this developer does this, or that developer does that" okay go play that developer's game instead if you're not happy, but SE aren't obligated to follow what every other developer do.

And seriously, if you can't wait three days after preliminary patch notes, even though you know this is how it works, then that's on you, not the developer.

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I have to agree, don't get me wrong I would have liked to seen gameplay or know just a bit more about the rework (generally what we got was kind of confusing on the rotation side), but at the end of the day I'm just going to wait and see and possibly voice my opinions or not, it's almost as if they're still likely fine tuning balance numbers still for a lot of Jobs, I'm guessing they rather not post anything until they're certain about it.

I actually think the devs are on the right track with PLD's defensives they're actually looking at the issues, While I'm not going to be massive on a rotation change (likely anyway, all i know it could actually be pretty fun), It's better then PLD being ignored all expansion and leaving it in it's current state.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Let's take a different example then that doesn't have the same amount of baggage, Bungie.

Say what you want about Destiny 2 but they give you updates about the game every week (called This Week at Bungie), they talk about new additions, upcoming changes, community events, etc.

And when they plan to make major changes to the game they explain in detail what they're changing and why they're doing it. They absolutely get shit for some of the changes from Angry Gamers™ but it hasn't stopped them from doing it.

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maybe if they spent more time working on the game instead of doing these little videos they wouldn't have to delete content people paid for :)

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

maybe if they spent more time working on the game instead of doing these little videos they wouldn't have to delete content people paid for :)

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*slow clap* you really got me there...except that has literally nothing to do with my point.
The removal of old content was also explained and while I find it just as baffling as pretty much everyone else that paid for the content back then that is a completely different discussion.

The entire point is that whether or not you like the changes they're making is irrelevant in this case. Just like I hate some decisions that CBU3 makes I also hate a lot of decisions that Bungie makes.

The difference is that one of them gives you a detailed explanation in advance on what they're changing, how the changes will look, why they're doing it and the thought process behind those changes...while the other does not.

Granted in 6.1 we finally got at least some explanations in the patch notes as to why they're making job changes in the first place, but it's not quite where it should be. Some of the most divisive changes are often dropped on players on patch day without a proper explanation.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Granted in 6.1 we finally got at least some explanations in the patch notes as to why they're making job changes in the first place, but it's not quite where it should be. Some of the most divisive changes are often dropped on players on patch day without a proper explanation.

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The 'explanations' are nice but they're nowhere near the level of detail I, and probably many others, were hoping for. We get 'Because Warrior is not dealing as much damage as it's counterparts, we have increased potency on its actions', whereas I'd hope for more like 'We have noticed that, while Warrior does very solid damage during it's burst windows, it's damage outside of those windows is lacking. As such, we have increased the potency on it's combo skills such as Storm's Eye and Maim. We believe this will help to increase it's damage during the downtime between burst opportunities, and will continue to monitor the data, and make additional changes if they are needed.'

It'd also be nice if we saw reasoning why we DON'T see changes for certain classes. If MCH isn't getting buffed despite being so behind it's role counterparts, I would at least like to know why that's the case. And the 6 or so remaining MCH mains would probably like to know too

Honestly it will depend how it melds into gameplay and the 2min meta (boooo)

I suspect thats the purpose of the cookie cutter change - I am curious how Bulwark will effect stuff and our loss of Sheltron.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

Honestly it will depend how it melds into gameplay and the 2min meta (boooo)

I suspect thats the purpose of the cookie cutter change - I am curious how Bulwark will effect stuff and our loss of Sheltron.

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Paladin is not losing Shelltron, it will just be changed to flat % mitigation instead of block to avoid situations like DSR where it just didn't work because you're stunned during the buster or Abyssos where block simply does nothing against DoTs.


Bulwark will simply be an additional personal defensive cooldown that Paladin is currently lacking, in the same vein as Thrill of Battle, Oblation/Dark Mind and Camouflage.

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Originally Posted by Ayan_Calvesse

Honestly it will depend how it melds into gameplay and the 2min meta (boooo)

I suspect thats the purpose of the cookie cutter change - I am curious how Bulwark will effect stuff and our loss of Sheltron.

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Holy Sheltron will probably be changed to 15% damage reduction for 8 seconds instead of 100% block chance, in additional its other current effects. 5% less DR than blocking but we'll still be able to randomly block attacks on top of this.

Bulwark will likely just be similar to what Sheltron currently does, granting us 100% chance to block for 10 seconds with a 60-90 cooldown, granting 20% damage reduction against non-bleeds.

The numbers might be slightly different than from what I'm assuming.

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Originally Posted by Melethron123

maybe if they spent more time working on the game instead of doing these little videos they wouldn't have to delete content people paid for :)

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Yes, because it requires Bungie's entire development team to create a short video.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Instead, they get harassed for *not* providing the information. Or, the opposite happens and they harass them because they think that because Yoshida appears on PLL's and does what is effectively marketing for the upcoming patch, they are best buddies and stuff.

Ever wonder how Blizzard handles people on the internet being upset? They just ignore them.

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Blizzard is really not a great example
them ignoring their players lead to 2 horrible expansions in a row
Let alone the SA charges that they bought their way out of last year

At this point blocking feels kind of outdated, I hope bulwark doesn't have anything really to do with "blocking" but it likely will, I'm just happy that at least PLD can feel like a stronger tank, At least if they keep both raid wides, niche skills like cover and clemency, with adding onto PLD's defensives I think the Job can be amazing as a good tank, pulling or being the "MT" on PLD would feel pretty good, a lot better then the tank that lost damage in SHB for holding aggro.

Makes me think if they're either going to remove some parts of PLD's kit (like passage) or they want PLD to do slightly less damage then GNB/DRK, I do think if they, buff PLD's defensives, great keep its great sustain, have the best or second damage, Still have two raid wides, it would be the best Tank at pretty much everything it wouldn't make much sense, the only reason why you wouldn't want to take a PLD is invul being the longest.

I think knowing some of the changes has confused me on what PLD's going to become, I personally don't mind PLD being like a small percent behind I don't even pick jobs for meta or DPS, I like PLD because it's fun, supportive and has great class identity.

Wouldn't surprise me if they change POA to a circle effect around the PLD, and make it a traited upgrade of Veil, so POA would give 'Veil shield and 15% DR to allies', PLD having 2 raidwide mits has never mattered. Even back in SB when people wanted it over DRK, it wasn't cos it had 2 raidwide mits, it was because DRK had zero. It'd also free up a hotbar slot, which PLD is suffering for atm. They can also remove Shield Bash for that though (and probably will)

I personally don't think it needs changed, maybe combine a skill or two to further help button bloat but that's about it.

Just keep my Clemency heals strong like they are & don't take away any of the tools I have to get MP back is all I'm asking from the changes coming.