Chainsaw's Instant Kill should be removed

I like throwing them out when I'm about to die. Always funny to see the other person go from 100 to 0 while I'm at 10% hp. Truly the peak of balancing

Doesn’t matter how rare it is. Any OHKO ability with zero counterplay is poor design. There are ways to deal with NIN and SAM. For MCH, you just flat out die or you don’t, with nothing you can do about it aside from being clairvoyant. The OHKO should be removed and replaced with something else.

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Originally Posted by Rabbid

You forgot Mch LB ;p
Wildfire + LB combo is about 48k damage.
Mch need something else than chainsaw.

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Yeah, if you use a time machine maybe?

I was grinding out my 10 wins for the pony on my alt this week and while I don't have the exact numbers, Spite now hits for about 30% of a melee DPS's health bar (used to be > 50%). For a tank it's even less. Reassemble + Drill or AA maybe hit for 25%. And Wildfire now hits for 20% if you get all your hits in. So lets say you were able to chain all that together: maxed Wildfire into Reassemble+AA, then followed by Spite. That's still not enough to finish off melee DPS on your own, let alone a tank. Now you have blown all your cooldowns, at which point they can pick you apart at their leisure.

As others have said pretty much every melee DPS can do more damage in the same number of button presses. And they have defensives and movement abilities that MCH lack entirely. Buff the insta-kill on Saw based on distance. Make melee DPS at least think about diving MCH for a free kill instead of having zero risk.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Wouldn't this better be a reason to convert some of Chainsaw's potency (literal and/or what's afforded by the rare, random instakill) towards making it immune to passive DR, or at least otherwise evening out its damage to melee and tanks?

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Bolded for emphasis.

That would require thought and nuance. The PvP balance team appears only capable of blanket across-the-board nerfs/buffs. Like I've said previously the balance team consists of a monkey banging on a keyboard with a coconut. You can't expect thought-out indiv buffs and nerfs.

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Originally Posted by Issaella

As others have said pretty much every melee DPS can do more DPS in the same number of button presses. And they have defensives and movement abilities that MCH lack entirely. Buff the insta-kill on Saw based on distance. Make melee DPS at least think about diving MCH instead of having zero risk.

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Maybe because Melee jobs have to be in Melee range in order to do anything. Speaking in terms of FL where zerging occurs more often than CC you aren't playing alone so engaging Melee jobs at Melee range its entirely your fault.

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Originally Posted by Issaella

And they have defensives and movement abilities that MCH lack entirely. Buff the insta-kill on Saw based on distance. Make melee DPS at least think about diving MCH instead of having zero risk.
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-Scattergun (10 yalm knockback)
-Bishop Autoturret (increase target damage taken by 10% and gives you a barrier for 6000 potency)
-Analysis Bioblaster ( 75%heavy)
-Air Anchor (Stun or Bind for 3 seconds)

Basically you have almost the entire All-cc-kit in one.

Are we playing the same job? diving MCH with remotely high BH its throwing yourself in to the sharks unless the MCH its a bot who stands idle while spamming Heat blast only.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

If you get Odin'd by a SAM, it is *absolutely* a you problem. Kuzushi debuff only lasts 3 sec, and the SAM can't LB if bound, stunned, silenced, etc.

Phantom Rush is the last GCD of a 7 GCD combo, and the timer only lasts 10 sec. If you let the MNK line up everything like that, you fucked up.

MCH is fine. You have a lot of work to do improving how you play it, but it's fine. Also, I'd recommend not using FL as the basis for balance whines, because FL is not and never has been balanced.

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-In paper yes you can use your wild fantasy and be like hmm a 2 sec silence or a stun can stop a sam LB from "odin'ing" my health, right good luck with that 0.1 inhuman reaction because being LBed by a sam in higher ranks especially in crystal ranks is very common and there are even 2-3 players at time can be wiped trying to CC kill that sam at the crystal point to win the match and with the heat of battle fighting a team mate of the enemy you can't tell as quick if the sam sneakly pulled his chiton out, and then you are done, sure a u problem if you cheat and have some automatic piggy as whm on LBing sam just to save the day as I heard the stories, but other than that it's very common and the cooldown itself is not really long and can be re-casted shortly, so yes I stick to it's not a u problem unless you insist on making it a u problem.

-As a mch, you really can't do much with a mnk trying to focus you and chase you down, you can even try it yourself, reachong the 7th's attack in mnk doesn't take even long as a mch you can problem knock them back which can make them just back to you, OR they can simply reach that point of the combo by doing it on your team mate and you are the main target and 10 sec is a LONG time for that to reset lol, so please.

-mch does need improvement and somehow a small defensive cooldown or whatever, besides who plays frontlines seriously, I was talking all of that based on ranked CC.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

-Scattergun (10 yalm knockback)
-Bishop Autoturret (increase target damage taken by 10% and gives you a barrier for 6000 potency)
-Analysis Bioblaster ( 75%heavy)
-Air Anchor (Stun or Bind for 3 seconds)

Basically you have almost the entire All-cc-kit in one.

Are we playing the same job? diving MCH with remotely high BH its throwing yourself in to the sharks unless the MCH its a bot who stands idle while spamming Heat blast only.

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None of the above CCs can really save you from a 60k+ health melee/tank that is just focusing you and annoying you unless you get to kill them first, more so having the chance of 3% that you MIGHT instantly kill them which will most likely not happen.

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Originally Posted by Leathium

-In paper yes you can use your wild fantasy and be like hmm a 2 sec silence or a stun can stop a sam LB from "odin'ing" my health, right good luck with that 0.1 inhuman reaction because being LBed by a sam in higher ranks especially in crystal ranks is very common and there are even 2-3 players at time can be wiped trying to CC kill that sam at the crystal point to win the match and with the heat of battle fighting a team mate of the enemy you can't tell as quick if the sam sneakly pulled his chiton out, and then you are done, sure a u problem if you cheat and have some automatic piggy as whm on LBing sam just to save the day as I heard the stories, but other than that it's very common and the cooldown itself is not really long and can be re-casted shortly, so yes I stick to it's not a u problem unless you insist on making it a u problem.
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what kind of crystal rank be smart enough to group up together get owned by sam LB XD? 30s recast time with chiten are you really sure is short when people can die with less 10s with 2-3 people burst single guy?

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

-Scattergun (10 yalm knockback)
-Bishop Autoturret (increase target damage taken by 10% and gives you a barrier for 6000 potency)
-Analysis Bioblaster ( 75%heavy)
-Air Anchor (Stun or Bind for 3 seconds)

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- The knockback on Scatter is negligible and can be gap-closed instantly to reengage. Plus it has a hefty delay, I've frequently had it take >1sec before they actually get moved away from me in FL. Ive also frequently died due to the delay because they get in a cooldown before it punts them.
- The shield on Bishop is a joke, it's a GCD to throw it with a ground target circle. On top of that, there is a significant delay before the shield pulses. And even if it actually has time to pulse with it's piddly range, the 6000 potency shield absorbs like half of one hit from a melee DPS.
- As to you remaining points, MCH can't chose what action they are on. AA stun is not on-demand if they are on Drill or Saw. Similarly you can't bind/stun if you are on Bioblaster unless you are already in melee range to get off it and then wait the GCD to use AA. To even use the Heavy on Bioblaster you have to close to melee range, which is moronic to begin with due to the lack of defenses. What is the thought process there to design it that way? "Here's what MCH need in PvP, an ability that makes them move into into prime range for that melee DPS so that they can slow them down then turn around and run away while the melee DPS sprint/gap-close and stomp them anyway." That seems like a super-smart plan and not suicidal at all.

Honestly really glad I started this thread, it's funny: the fact any of you think balance should be tailored specifically to frontline is a bit hilarious. Anyway, if you're getting ganked by a single melee DPS in frontline you are literally 100% at fault - stay with your team? Your team of 24 people?

MCH has near the entire CC kit and a very good AOE area denial tool which you can really use it frontline (which you all seem to play), to close off using objectives with damage.

This entire thread has become buttblasted MCH players.

It's possible to balance around both. They seem incapable of doing so outside of blanket nerfs/buffs to FL that turn it into even more of a mess. You know what would have improved melee surviability in FL without making then nigh unkillable to rDPS? Buff their defensive cooldowns either by increasing the DR percentage, increasing the duration, decreasing the cooldown, or some combination there of. Instead they just gave all melee a flat DR buff and completely screwed up the balance.

It's not an either/or, it's possible to balance around both, they have already shown they can make changes to FL without affecting CC. They are just utterly incompetent at it. I think the PvP balance team consists of what? 1 guy and 1 part-time intern? No wonder it's a miserable mess at present.

And to state for the record I couldn't give an s about CC balance. I hate MOBA gameplay and that's exactly what it is. I have played 1 match since the second week of release and that was only because I was out of Tail points and need 1 more for completion. They didn't need to ruin an entire PvP mode just to create a new one.

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Originally Posted by Issaella

And to state for the record I couldn't give an s about CC balance.

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Sounds like you only play FL and likely just for EXP - and while I agree they should introduce FL balances without big blankets, OHKO should be removed still, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

This entire thread has become buttblasted MCH players.

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Is saw proc really that painful?

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

Sounds like you only play FL and likely just for EXP - and while I agree they should introduce FL balances without big blankets, OHKO should be removed still, thanks.

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Now that I've finished the 10 wins on both my character, yes. I used to play FL for fun. I refuse to play CC beyond a one-off for Tails, because I hate the gameplay. FL at this point is approaching more annoying/frustrating than fun (especially with the melee DPS changes in the last hotfix). The 6.1 changes pretty much walled off an entire portion of the game for me, because I don't like how it plays anymore. If you want my honest opinion, there was no reason to mess with abilities/jobs in FL at all. They could have just made CC a completely separate mode instead of trying to shoehorn the new jobs into FL as well and utterly failing in the process.

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Originally Posted by Leathium

-In paper yes you can use your wild fantasy and be like hmm a 2 sec silence or a stun can stop a sam LB from "odin'ing" my health, right good luck with that 0.1 inhuman reaction because being LBed by a sam in higher ranks especially in crystal ranks is very common and there are even 2-3 players at time can be wiped trying to CC kill that sam at the crystal point to win the match and with the heat of battle fighting a team mate of the enemy you can't tell as quick if the sam sneakly pulled his chiton out, and then you are done, sure a u problem if you cheat and have some automatic piggy as whm on LBing sam just to save the day as I heard the stories, but other than that it's very common and the cooldown itself is not really long and can be re-casted shortly, so yes I stick to it's not a u problem unless you insist on making it a u problem.

-As a mch, you really can't do much with a mnk trying to focus you and chase you down, you can even try it yourself, reachong the 7th's attack in mnk doesn't take even long as a mch you can problem knock them back which can make them just back to you, OR they can simply reach that point of the combo by doing it on your team mate and you are the main target and 10 sec is a LONG time for that to reset lol, so please.

-mch does need improvement and somehow a small defensive cooldown or whatever, besides who plays frontlines seriously, I was talking all of that based on ranked CC.



None of the above CCs can really save you from a 60k+ health melee/tank that is just focusing you and annoying you unless you get to kill them first, more so having the chance of 3% that you MIGHT instantly kill them which will most likely not happen.

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Good news to you because MCH has 52.500 HP, if you are letting them get close how in the world a 3 seconds of BIND/STUN/HEAVY/10% Target damage increase ISN'T SOMETHING to you? Also of course you can attack and move at the same time.
MCH its basically a fully ranged NIN without Seiton Tenchu, at medium BH you can kill any range job with Analysis+Drill/Air Anchor+MS , sometimes MS pops for over 40k damage if the target its affected with debuffs.

Just don't bother trying to kill a MNK/REAPER specially when they have all their defensives CD up.

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Originally Posted by Issaella

- The knockback on Scatter is negligible and can be gap-closed instantly to reengage. Plus it has a hefty delay, I've frequently had it take >1sec before they actually get moved away from me in FL. Ive also frequently died due to the delay because they get in a cooldown before it punts them.
- The shield on Bishop is a joke, it's a GCD to throw it with a ground target circle. On top of that, there is a significant delay before the shield pulses. And even if it actually has time to pulse with it's piddly range, the 6000 potency shield absorbs like half of one hit from a melee DPS.
- As to you remaining points, MCH can't chose what action they are on. AA stun is not on-demand if they are on Drill or Saw. Similarly you can't bind/stun if you are on Bioblaster unless you are already in melee range to get off it and then wait the GCD to use AA. To even use the Heavy on Bioblaster you have to close to melee range, which is moronic to begin with due to the lack of defenses. What is the thought process there to design it that way? "Here's what MCH need in PvP, an ability that makes them move into into prime range for that melee DPS so that they can slow them down then turn around and run away while the melee DPS sprint/gap-close and stomp them anyway." That seems like a super-smart plan and not suicidal at all.

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-You are not supposed to use Scattergun as an escape tool (Well you can still use Guard+SC+Sprint and get away easily), it deals around 10-20k depending of your BH status, also its probably the most annoying AOE knockback because its comes in a sight delay catching people off guard specially in maps like the Borderland Ruins

-Bishop isn't a joke, meanwhile you get a shield (Pretty much like Thunderclap potency) that can SAVE YOU from death the melee job in your face gets a nicely AOE10% damage debuff. Please you are playing a range JOB, even when MCH has almost everything in his kit he should be vulnerable at some point.

-NIN kinda have the same issue, once you drop any of the Three Mudras it gets locked until you use something else, you are not forced to use everything in one target and you actually can rotate without issues around, Bio Blaster its there to help you clean the area the addition of 75%+Heavy for 3 seconds can be dead sentence for most Melee jobs that gets affected with it also having a range of 12 yards isn't exactly being at melee range plus can be used in movement . I have zero issues dealing with NINs or DRG that pops in my face as soon they get in my range, even if I get stunlock first before preparing the terrain (Aether Morthar+Bioblast+SC) MCH have plenty of tools to rotate and play around against almost everything he is a job that counters mostly Range ones (SMN/Bard/Dances/WHM/AST etc)

SE clearly wanted range jobs to experiment close-gap engagements instead of staying 20 yards away spamming basic abilities like in the previous PVP version.


The problem right now isn't MCH being bad its because the DEF buff + Guard its making dumb players to make huge mistakes and get away easily.

https://i.imgur.com/3aXI8SB.png
https://i.imgur.com/jx2FoUP.png
(For those saying that MCH sucks and deal 0 damage or get kills).

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

*snip*

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I'm not going through that point by point because half of it I've already refuted anyway and the rest, I don't have the energy. What you said there can basically be translated "when under ideal circumstance, when the moon is full, during the conjunction with Saturn, while the Perseid meteor shower is at it's peak MCH can top the charts." And for reference the scoreboard you posted is meaningless because all anyone knows you were in a 4 stack with the SMN and WHM finishing off their targets for them.

Bioblaster snare/heavy is useless 90% of the time in FL because it forces you into melee range where you are sitting duck. Any time I use it in a team fight I immediate get focused/stunned/snared/charmed and blown up. Regardless, the melee DPS can immediately a) Purify it and run you down or b) gap-close and stun/snare you. The shield on Bishop requires a GCD to throw it out (while any melee DPS just bunny-hops and strafes around you to try and break targeting, al la old-school WoW) and enough delay before it proc that any melee DPS except maybe DRG can blow their burst and kill you before it pulses, that's if they just don't knockback you out of it to begin with (why bother IMO). It's range is pathetic, which forces you to either stand around and get the crap kicked out of you while is pulses a minuscule shield every few second or just run and cut your losses. The 10% damage buff is also a joke, because against a melee DPS or tank its significantly less than the flat DR they got in the last patch. 10% increase in crap damage is still crap.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Good news to you because MCH has 52.500 HP, if you are letting them get close how in the world a 3 seconds of BIND/STUN/HEAVY/10% Target damage increase ISN'T SOMETHING to you?

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a) Because there is no guarantee that you will be on the ability that gives those when you need it, since it's on a 4 ability cycle with 2 charges and no ability to control the order or skip over one.
b) Any of those debuffs can be immediately Purified and they can run you down anyway.
c) 10% bonus to damage is completely useless against a melee DPS or tank that got 2x that in DR with the last patch. As I said above, +10% of crap damage is still crap.

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Originally Posted by Issaella

Now that I've finished the 10 wins on both my character, yes. I used to play FL for fun. I refuse to play CC beyond a one-off for Tails, because I hate the gameplay. FL at this point is approaching more annoying/frustrating than fun (especially with the melee DPS changes in the last hotfix). The 6.1 changes pretty much walled off an entire portion of the game for me, because I don't like how it plays anymore. If you want my honest opinion, there was no reason to mess with abilities/jobs in FL at all. They could have just made CC a completely separate mode instead of trying to shoehorn the new jobs into FL as well and utterly failing in the process.

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Honestly wouldn't mind the feast abilities back in FL, tbh and then the new ones for CC.

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Originally Posted by Sawamura

what kind of crystal rank be smart enough to group up together get owned by sam LB XD? 30s recast time with chiten are you really sure is short when people can die with less 10s with 2-3 people burst single guy?

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Easy, imagine you need to push the crystal from your side to the enemy side, with your team at least 2-3 on the crystal so it moves faster in overtime, which will result on some sneaky sam that will cast chiton and then guard to stop the crystal from moving, in the moment of panic at least 1-2 players will touch the sam, OH NO WE GOT DEBUFFED, and then the sam LB killing 2 of the 3 on crystal.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Good news to you because MCH has 52.500 HP, if you are letting them get close how in the world a 3 seconds of BIND/STUN/HEAVY/10% Target damage increase ISN'T SOMETHING to you? Also of course you can attack and move at the same time.
MCH its basically a fully ranged NIN without Seiton Tenchu, at medium BH you can kill any range job with Analysis+Drill/Air Anchor+MS , sometimes MS pops for over 40k damage if the target its affected with debuffs.

Just don't bother trying to kill a MNK/REAPER specially when they have all their defensives CD up.

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52.500 HP is basically as low as a smn or a healer, which is not even the whole point, plus as someone already said you can NOT choose which CC you want at well, while you can do that for other melees, you can bind you can stun, you can slow you CHOOSE which CC you want to apply anytime with other classes, in mch it goes like this, you start with drill as you spawn into the match, you use the drill with analysis, then wait, okay now you can do the blaster CC which is 75% heavy, oh no you have to wait for analysis also to recharge/cooldown okay! now we are done with heavy CC, the next skill after blaster is you either use it alone to "Bind" OR you wait analysis to recharge and then well you stun with it instead, and if you die, you respawn with drill, you dont respawn with what you were at, so basically you have to go through the whole process again to get your CCs back up and ready to use or more like stay alive longer, chainsaw is basically the last skill in that set of cooldowns to finally MAYBE pull a 3% instant kill and that will most likely not proc, you can only pray and waste an analysis that you could use to buff your Drill instead, meanwhile a sam, they can stun you and bind you at well, ANYTIME, a Nin as well can heavy you, stun you, and have a ranged attack that does NOT slow them down and does NOT charge up a recast, again I'm speaking based on ranked CC I don't really consider FL is even worth complaining about because it's known as a gank fest.

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Is saw proc really that painful?

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Let's say I barely get that proc to others but others always get that proc to me...

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Originally Posted by Issaella

Counterpoint: Insta-kill should be increased to 10-15% against melee and tanks since that is the only way MCH has any chance to kill anything other than ranged now. Spite hits for only ~25-30% of the health of a melee or tank with the changes to DR. Reassemble + Drill/Saw/AA comboed with Spite now maybe does 50%. At which point the tank or melee turns around and then stunlocks and curb-stomps you into the ground.

Meanwhile a NIN can still stunlock, burst you to 50% and then execute before you can clear the Stun with Purge and even if you could, it hits you through Guard.

The PvP balance team currently consists of a monkey banging on a keyboard with a coconut.

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Pretty sure MCH is the hardest hitting job in the game. Also MNK and DRG do way more damage than a NIN.

You're almost as out of touch as Square Enix with their PvP patches.

i have mained brd mch dnc for a long time and their good jobs on mch i think they should keep chainsaw it works very well in main game and just because they hate it in pvp thats too bad keep it for mch.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Let's say I barely get that proc to others but others always get that proc to me...

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It feels that way sometimes I understand

Having had some close matches in ranked queue lost because I was instant killed before we engage, forcing my team to 4v5 , I agree with OP, instant death with no counterplay has no business being in a competitive mode. I also had a match where I was instant killed 3 times by chainsaw, you cannot convince me that being dead for 32 seconds through no fault of my own is good design.

If the effect must be kept, it should be frontlines-exclusive, that mode is already chaotic anyway, what's a little more chaos?

As a main machinist I am ok with removing the "chainsaw insta kill" RNG and situational thing (never kill anyone with this so it is not a big lost to be honest) and, on the over side, improve mobility or survivability.

We cannot lost something without some kind of compensation ;)

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Originally Posted by Netaie

As a main machinist I am ok with removing the "chainsaw insta kill" RNG and situational thing (never kill anyone with this so it is not a big lost to be honest) and, on the over side, improve mobility or survivability.

We cannot lost something without some kind of compensation ;)

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Cool, losing a 3% chance of effect means you can get like 100 extra potency on some random skill. That's about how much impact you're losing.

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Originally Posted by Leathium

Easy, imagine you need to push the crystal from your side to the enemy side, with your team at least 2-3 on the crystal so it moves faster in overtime, which will result on some sneaky sam that will cast chiton and then guard to stop the crystal from moving, in the moment of panic at least 1-2 players will touch the sam, OH NO WE GOT DEBUFFED, and then the sam LB killing 2 of the 3 on crystal.

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Then is people being silly not focus target or check sam lb gauge/chiten. Barely see any samurai at crystal rank at Light&primal datacenter during how easy to counter/kill samurai mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

Cool, losing a 3% chance of effect means you can get like 100 extra potency on some random skill. That's about how much impact you're losing.

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As English is not my native language, please can you elaborate more your thought? :)
Not sure to see your point because I only speak about mobility and survivability. But I am biased by my own vision of CC.

But to be totally honest, I prefer trusting developer direction because they have all the data if you compare with each player which are, most of the time, biased and restricted by their own and limited experience.

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Originally Posted by Netaie

As English is not my native language, please can you elaborate more your thought? :)
Not sure to see your point because I only speak about mobility and survivability. But I am biased by my own vision of CC.

But to be totally honest, I prefer trusting developer direction because they have all the data if you compare with each player which are, most of the time, biased and restricted by their own and limited experience.

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He was being facetious, because everyone on here who wants the insta-kill to be removed is butthurt about getting 1-shotted in a 1/33 (3%) proc in CC. So he is offer 100 potency increase to another skill as a tradeoff.

You shouldn't trust them to balance anything in PvP to any reasonable extent because they have already proven that in the short time since 6.1 they are incapable of doing so with any kind of finesse. Just look at the blanket nerfs and buffs they have done and how it has alternatively trash-binned and god-moded different jobs. FL is a complete mess right now where melee DPS are nigh unkillable by anything other than other melee DPS, PLD can go 1v8 and not die for minutes at a time and ranged physical are free kills to any melee DPS who can dive them.

If you're looking to nerf MCH, you need to stop trolling.

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Originally Posted by HeatedCoffee

If you're looking to nerf MCH, you need to stop trolling.

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Good troll.

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Originally Posted by Sawamura

Then is people being silly not focus target or check sam lb gauge/chiten. Barely see any samurai at crystal rank at Light&primal datacenter during how easy to counter/kill samurai mechanic.

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If they have some robot reaction calculated digitally, sure.

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Originally Posted by Netaie

As English is not my native language, please can you elaborate more your thought? :)
Not sure to see your point because I only speak about mobility and survivability. But I am biased by my own vision of CC.

But to be totally honest, I prefer trusting developer direction because they have all the data if you compare with each player which are, most of the time, biased and restricted by their own and limited experience.

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I mean that a 3% chance of an effect on a skill you will pretty much never use Analysis on when you're being serious isn't really something you're "losing." You wouldn't need buffs in other areas to compensate, because you aren't losing something you actually make use of when you're playing to win.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I mean that a 3% chance of an effect on a skill you will pretty much never use Analysis on when you're being serious isn't really something you're "losing." You wouldn't need buffs in other areas to compensate, because you aren't losing something you actually make use of when you're playing to win.

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well put honestly, I don't think MCH will even need anything to replace it, maybe bleed with analysis

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

I mean that a 3% chance of an effect on a skill you will pretty much never use Analysis on when you're being serious isn't really something you're "losing." You wouldn't need buffs in other areas to compensate, because you aren't losing something you actually make use of when you're playing to win.

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Actually I like the idea of adding a bleed effect or even a dot to it if used with Analysis, because as of right now it's a huge gamble and most of the time feels wasted.

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Originally Posted by Issaella

topkek

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Because you're terrible at PVP doesn't mean the job its bad or needs huge buffs. As I said before the only mistake SE made with the current patch its leaving guard untouched meanwhile everyone got a huge def buff specially DPS jobs. In fact you haven't refute anything just crying about why you can't spam CS every 3 seconds or leave your target bind/stunned without any counter play meanwhile other DPS jobs like NIN (who its arguably the best right now in terms of snowballing the enemy team) have to rotate their mundras.

Bioblaster isn't useless learn to dive properly with you team and enjoy seeing the enemy team being heavy+debuffed and melees jobs going in to panic mode. Obviously if you dive 1vs24 trying to get a bioblaster of course you are going to dive, I mean every single job will die instantly. You don't need to win every 1vs1 fight, if you know you are going to get overwhelmed you have to run away that's why you have CS/guard/sprint/recuperate, in fact you can always poke and be a pest to the enemy team working around with your bind/stun. Today not even a DRG with max BH will one shot you as MCH, even if he lands his LB in your face alone it won't 1 shot you like before, the only way to die in FL at end game its by LB NIN/SAM or MCH, its impossible to get 1 shot by anything with the current def buff.

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Originally Posted by Issaella

a) Because there is no guarantee that you will be on the ability that gives those when you need it, since it's on a 4 ability cycle with 2 charges and no ability to control the order or skip over one.
b) Any of those debuffs can be immediately Purified and they can run you down anyway.
c) 10% bonus to damage is completely useless against a melee DPS or tank that got 2x that in DR with the last patch. As I said above, +10% of crap damage is still crap.

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1)You don't need to blow out everything in one target, in fact you can always use Bioblaster against one of those players who are or are stupid enough to dive 1vs24 and die instantly.
2)Nice, you actually made them purify and leave them completely exposed so your team can finish the target off, congrats now you understand why MCH its a good job in FL.
3) ? that's probably the dumbest argument so far, I guess you never played with a decent SGE in your team. debuffing in FL its core to win TF's.


I have never been in premade while playing FL, I don't what you are talking about but you don't even know me and pretty much I don't care. Don't worry I can upload billions of scoreboards stomping as MCH.

https://i.imgur.com/eIBGXtW.png

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Originally Posted by Leathium

Easy, imagine you need to push the crystal from your side to the enemy side, with your team at least 2-3 on the crystal so it moves faster in overtime, which will result on some sneaky sam that will cast chiton and then guard to stop the crystal from moving, in the moment of panic at least 1-2 players will touch the sam, OH NO WE GOT DEBUFFED, and then the sam LB killing 2 of the 3 on crystal.



52.500 HP is basically as low as a smn or a healer, which is not even the whole point, plus as someone already said you can NOT choose which CC you want at well, while you can do that for other melees, you can bind you can stun, you can slow you CHOOSE which CC you want to apply anytime with other classes, in mch it goes like this, you start with drill as you spawn into the match, you use the drill with analysis, then wait, okay now you can do the blaster CC which is 75% heavy, oh no you have to wait for analysis also to recharge/cooldown okay! now we are done with heavy CC, the next skill after blaster is you either use it alone to "Bind" OR you wait analysis to recharge and then well you stun with it instead, and if you die, you respawn with drill, you dont respawn with what you were at, so basically you have to go through the whole process again to get your CCs back up and ready to use or more like stay alive longer, chainsaw is basically the last skill in that set of cooldowns to finally MAYBE pull a 3% instant kill and that will most likely not proc, you can only pray and waste an analysis that you could use to buff your Drill instead, meanwhile a sam, they can stun you and bind you at well, ANYTIME, a Nin as well can heavy you, stun you, and have a ranged attack that does NOT slow them down and does NOT charge up a recast, again I'm speaking based on ranked CC I don't really consider FL is even worth complaining about because it's known as a gank fest.

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Yes you can choose, just save what you want and don't be dumb enough to don't know how to play your job. Other melees struggles as much as you do for example MNK only relies on having high BH and apply Enlightenment+Meteodrive that's all he does in FL meanwhile his damage its laughable and don't have a single range skill, RPR? have fun playing around Plentiful Harvest and hopping the enemy team will not fully CC you when Tenebrae Lemurum its up. SAM? only noobs falls for his OBVIOUSLY Chiten+Zentetsuken, the rest of the match they only can bind/stun you until their LB its up again because his damage its inconsistent.

Yeah SAM and NIN can stun you more often but they have to dive you, unlike MCH who can do the same at range.

I still can't really talk for a casual gank fest Frontlines, my points are on the crystalline conflict.

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Originally Posted by Leathium

Actually I like the idea of adding a bleed effect or even a dot to it if used with Analysis, because as of right now it's a huge gamble and most of the time feels wasted.

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You already have a dot on Bioblaster, though.

I don't understand why people would like to chainsaw with 3% proc lol. I mean do people feel they are best of the best with get a kill from luck instead their own actually skill kill. Instant kill is fine so long requirement condition cause that is like reward to you effect. It just like FPS game with headshot requirement you aim. But instant kill from rng without any counterpart it just worst.
At this point I rather dev team change chainsaw with increase damage or strong dot or remove shield/buff (not guard) or give debuff increase damage take or hell I'm even fine with instant kill with below 12k hp ignore shield/regen. lol