When is PLD Getting Fixed So It Can Be a VIABLE Tank?

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Originally Posted by Duelle

He has a good point though, because a group of posters circle-jerking over how skilled they are despite PLD's current design is not going to help the job get ahead in the long run. It took a step in the right direction, but PLD is still far from being fixed and complete.

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You don't fix one class fucking another. And that's what happened. If it keeps like that, we will start hearing: " please nerf pld" in a few more weeks.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

He has a good point though, because a group of posters circle-jerking over how skilled they are despite PLD's current design is not going to help the job get ahead in the long run. It took a step in the right direction, but PLD is still far from being fixed and complete.

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But then when is a class at an acceptable level? When any shmuck can pick up the job and do great with little to no effort?

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Originally Posted by Alerith

But then when is a class at an acceptable level? When any shmuck can pick up the job and do great with little to no effort?

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This is where things get subjective. Your sig tells me you're on one end of the spectrum. I happen to be somewhere between the middle and the other end of the spectrum, because (to me) designing a role in a way more people are willing to do it is not a bad thing. Not to mention a bigger tank and healer pool is never a bad thing, either.

The more people willing to take up the mantle of tank or healer, the better. I say that as a prot warrior that saw grandpas and elderly aunts main tank dungeons and raids. Having more people able to take the role made me lots of things; unhappy was not one of them.

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Originally Posted by Noir

You don't fix one class fucking another. And that's what happened. If it keeps like that, we will start hearing: " please nerf pld" in a few more weeks.

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Please elaborate. If you mean the WAR nerf, only the misinformed were wanting to see WAR nerfed. Some even made claims wanting to remove WAR tanking so that PLD would then be forced on everyone. That's not what a good number of us wanted. I personally wanted PLD buffed to about WAR's level, because I understand that in an IP with more than 20 possible job classes, you can't make one or two classes the only tanks in the damn game.

Both Patriarch and Duelle has no MAR at 50. Do i really want to hear their opinion about the balance about both class? no.

It's really turning into an annoyance when people acts like they know everything despite not trying it out themselves, it's as bad as people that complains before patch landed. Go test both class and if you thinks one is far way better than another then come and whine here but don't come here ignoring everyone else's efforts that has done multiple runs and tests with both classes.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Please elaborate. If you mean the WAR nerf, only the idiots who can't see beyond their noses were wanting to see WAR nerfed. Some even made claims wanting to remove WAR tanking so that PLD would then be forced on everyone. That's not what a good number of us wanted. I personally wanted PLD buffed to about WAR's level, because I understand that in an IP with more than 20 possible job classes, you can't make one or two classes the only tanks in the damn game.

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Tell me, how can a job that can take on at least 10 or more high level mobs (I'm talking about Natalan here) without much effort be "balanced"?

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Please elaborate. If you mean the WAR nerf, only the idiots who can't see beyond their noses were wanting to see WAR nerfed. Some even made claims wanting to remove WAR tanking so that PLD would then be forced on everyone. That's not what a good number of us wanted. I personally wanted PLD buffed to about WAR's level, because I understand that in an IP with more than 20 possible job classes, you can't make one or two classes the only tanks in the damn game.

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The Steel Cyclone nerf was completely justified because it was completely broken.

No job should be able to roll up to a party spot, take everything, kill it all with a full HP bar after.

It still tanks, it still DPS's whle tanking, it just now requires somewhat a little bit of skill to play it since the nerf.

It also gives the option of being either a DPS or Tank, not a tank with DPS like damage.

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Originally Posted by Kaizlu

Tell me, how can a job that can take on at least 10 or more high level mobs (I'm talking about Natalan here) without much effort be "balanced"?

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Complicated issue involving level correction (which has a slew of other problems). This is on top of tank design on WAR having an easier time against it between ease of AoE tanking and abilities available to them. PLD on the other hand is stuck with a reactionary ability whenever Flash is on cooldown, and everything else being single-target. I know exactly what the devs went for with this, but also know they failed to realize that when you have groups of mobs involved in anything, combined with speed runs and so on, the guy that holds hate and does more damage is gonna win.

This is why whenever you have tanks, parity is VERY important because otherwise you get exactly what has been happening, in people using one and ignoring the other (this is actually true for any role, because DPS and healers can also suffer from this problem). Tanks can have styles and flavors, but hate and DPS has to be about even or within a reasonable range...well, that is provided you want an actual roster of tanks in-game rather than niche gameplay where one is useful for one thing and the other is useful elsewhere.

Note: I'll retract the affectionate adjective I used on the nerf-callers, admittedly because it was aimed at the latter group I mentioned (the guys that wanted WAR tanking nerfed to notable inferiority and/or outright removal of WAR tanking).

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This is where things get subjective. Your sig tells me you're on one end of the spectrum. I happen to be somewhere between the middle and the other end of the spectrum, because (to me) designing a role in a way more people are willing to do it is not a bad thing. Not to mention a bigger tank and healer pool is never a bad thing, either.

The more people willing to take up the mantle of tank or healer, the better. I say that as a prot warrior that saw grandpas and elderly aunts main tank dungeons and raids. Having more people able to take the role made me lots of things; unhappy was not one of them.

Please elaborate. If you mean the WAR nerf, only the misinformed were wanting to see WAR nerfed. Some even made claims wanting to remove WAR tanking so that PLD would then be forced on everyone. That's not what a good number of us wanted. I personally wanted PLD buffed to about WAR's level, because I understand that in an IP with more than 20 possible job classes, you can't make one or two classes the only tanks in the damn game.

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No, Warrior's tanking capabilities definitely needed a nerf. Warrior was like rolling your face on the keyboard and when you look up the monsters are dead. Now warrior can DD better and they can do a dry steel cyclone for cheaper cost in exchange for losing the over-powered damage. That is unless you think needing skill to tank against DDs that are going all out is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki

Greetings!

First off let me state that I already know there's a myriad of problems with PLD. I know there are lots of threads about the problems still plaguing PLD so I won't go into any of that.

All I want to know is how/when does SE plan address PLD's issues? A dev. response with actual time frame would be nice considering both 2.0 & PS3 beta are right around the corner and the gap between PLD & WAR is still very vast.

Thanks!

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It's all in ur head.

I gave PLD a second chance after the initial disappointment after the patch and here's how it went:

Tanking over all is better but I don't want PLD to be another tank, I want it to be the go-to tank and its not quite there yet.

My issues:

1- Block rate is still laughable, unlike warrior's parry rate which happens often thanks to "nerfed" Rampage, it seems like my PLD only realizes that he has a shield when I use an ability.

2- Outmaneuver is utterly and completely useless on its own, the block rate increase is unnoticeable, the MP recovery is such a small number and using it without Divine Veil is pointless. Outmaneuver needs to be fixed

3- Cover's main use currently is just to restore MP, and to do that you NEED to have the AF body on, since without it, Cover is an incase-shit/last ditch very situational ability to save someone if you lose hate.

------------------------------- Fixes I'd like to see----------------------------

1- Increase block rate and or make it possible to block magic attacks.

2- Change Outmaneuver then turn it into a stance. this can solve the first issue too since it would address the low block rate, and help with MP recovery.

3- Add the MP recovery effect to Cover and just make the AF increase the amount or increase its range.


About Cover: this ability would kick so much ass if we had alliances (2 parties +) and grand battles where you need 2 tanks rotating hate, you'll be able to cover each other to preserve and regenerate MP, but in our current system its usability is severely limited.

PLD fixes:
-Add parrys
-Do not increase Block rate more than nessesary
-Add parrys
-Add parrys
-Increase MP recovery
-A strong HP restore, I'm talking really strong and pretty much automatic. Invincibility is nice but theres gotta be more.

(okay maybe thats a bit much but you catch my drift right)?

Most party setups include 2-3 whm for difficult content. If paladin would be fixed THE RIGHT WAY meaning a high enmity tank/healer, you would eleminate one white mage from the equation(the tank healer), making room for more DD.

If I could pick one thing to change for paladin it wouldn't be paladin directly. It would be conjurer's Sacred Prism. Instead of that wild description I'd like it to simply change all single-target recovery and enhancing spells to AoE.

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Originally Posted by Soulfire

If I could pick one thing to change for paladin it wouldn't be paladin directly. It would be conjurer's Sacred Prism. Instead of that wild description I'd like it to simply change all single-target recovery and enhancing spells to AoE.

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Isn't that essentialy what it does? Plus they cant make ALL enhancing spells apply to it, I mean for the most part the do, but say a new enhancing spell comes out and they DONT want it usable under sacred prism, thus they have to specify what you can use. Idk I think?

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

Isn't that essentialy what it does? Plus they cant make ALL enhancing spells apply to it, I mean for the most part the do, but say a new enhancing spell comes out and they DONT want it usable under sacred prism, thus they have to specify what you can use. Idk I think?

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I was kinda throwing that out there as it's been playing in my head for a while now. (And the change to Sacred Prism's description struck me as ridiculous.) I like the ideas you guys posted as well, though. I was picking something semi-conservative with a bit of strategic potential, but I'd love for more.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Complicated issue involving level correction (which has a slew of other problems). This is on top of tank design on WAR having an easier time against it between ease of AoE tanking and abilities available to them. PLD on the other hand is stuck with a reactionary ability whenever Flash is on cooldown, and everything else being single-target. I know exactly what the devs went for with this, but also know they failed to realize that when you have groups of mobs involved in anything, combined with speed runs and so on, the guy that holds hate and does more damage is gonna win.

This is why whenever you have tanks, parity is VERY important because otherwise you get exactly what has been happening, in people using one and ignoring the other (this is actually true for any role, because DPS and healers can also suffer from this problem). Tanks can have styles and flavors, but hate and DPS has to be about even or within a reasonable range...well, that is provided you want an actual roster of tanks in-game rather than niche gameplay where one is useful for one thing and the other is useful elsewhere.

Note: I'll retract the affectionate adjective I used on the nerf-callers, admittedly because it was aimed at the latter group I mentioned (the guys that wanted WAR tanking nerfed to notable inferiority and/or outright removal of WAR tanking).

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I usually agree with a lot of what you say but SC was too OP killing 8 mobs at once is retarded for any class. Blm could probably do that if they are lucky.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

I gave PLD a second chance after the initial disappointment after the patch and here's how it went:


------------------------------- Fixes I'd like to see----------------------------

1- Increase block rate and or make it possible to block magic attacks.

2- Change Outmaneuver then turn it into a stance. this can solve the first issue too since it would address the low block rate, and help with MP recovery.

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I other words just give us Guard back. The block rate of guard was insane and before they nerfed it between alpha and beta had the dmg mitagation of parry. give it a 30 duration and a 60 second cool down and Problem sloved. PLD would have to give up something, I could live without divin veil until a cap increase in favor for a real guarding skill.

Edit: And fix War Drum. Seriously, for being condistional and having a long CD it really
doesn't give much hate.

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Originally Posted by Arkine

I gave PLD a second chance after the initial disappointment after the patch and here's how it went:

Tanking over all is better but I don't want PLD to be another tank, I want it to be the go-to tank and its not quite there yet.

My issues:

1- Block rate is still laughable, unlike warrior's parry rate which happens often thanks to "nerfed" Rampage, it seems like my PLD only realizes that he has a shield when I use an ability.

2- Outmaneuver is utterly and completely useless on its own, the block rate increase is unnoticeable, the MP recovery is such a small number and using it without Divine Veil is pointless. Outmaneuver needs to be fixed

3- Cover's main use currently is just to restore MP, and to do that you NEED to have the AF body on, since without it, Cover is an incase-shit/last ditch very situational ability to save someone if you lose hate.

------------------------------- Fixes I'd like to see----------------------------

1- Increase block rate and or make it possible to block magic attacks.

2- Change Outmaneuver then turn it into a stance. this can solve the first issue too since it would address the low block rate, and help with MP recovery.

3- Add the MP recovery effect to Cover and just make the AF increase the amount or increase its range.


About Cover: this ability would kick so much ass if we had alliances (2 parties +) and grand battles where you need 2 tanks rotating hate, you'll be able to cover each other to preserve and regenerate MP, but in our current system its usability is severely limited.

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the only thing missing from all of that is.......

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Originally Posted by Haibel

And fix War Drum. Seriously, for being condistional and having a long CD it really
doesn't give much hate.

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pretty much spot on between both of them

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Originally Posted by Firon

I usually agree with a lot of what you say but SC was too OP killing 8 mobs at once is retarded for any class. Blm could probably do that if they are lucky.

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I find it hard to justify nerfs once the class is out the gate. Partly because I know the discrepancy was intentional since the beginning, not to mention that once its in the hands of the players unless the class itself is borking the very core of balance (like NIN tanks did in FFXI) it's obviously going to be involved with not fixing or changing the other classes much. Then you end up with WAR nerfs instead of PLD buffs.

What really annoys me about this sort of thing is that we have people who already think PLD is fixed and perfect, whereas as I mentioned earlier in this thread, PLD has taken a step in the right direction but it is far from fixed. You still have DPS discrepancy (don't know how to fix this outside of redesigning GLA traits to have them get at least one Enhanced Physical Attack Power trait or perhaps increasing base damage of all swords), lack of more AoE (which would be fixed by a direct buff+lowered cooldown to War Drum and bringing back Circle Slash) and need for slightly better enmity generation (which would most likely be fixed if you increased DPS and AoE capabilities).

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I find it hard to justify nerfs once the class is out the gate. Partly because I know the discrepancy was intentional since the beginning, not to mention that once its in the hands of the players unless the class itself is borking the very core of balance (like NIN tanks did in FFXI) it's obviously going to be involved with not fixing or changing the other classes much. Then you end up with WAR nerfs instead of PLD buffs.

What really annoys me about this sort of thing is that we have people who already think PLD is fixed and perfect, whereas as I mentioned earlier in this thread, PLD has taken a step in the right direction but it is far from fixed. You still have DPS discrepancy (don't know how to fix this outside of redesigning GLA traits to have them get at least one Enhanced Physical Attack Power trait or perhaps increasing base damage of all swords), lack of more AoE (which would be fixed by a direct buff+lowered cooldown to War Drum and bringing back Circle Slash) and need for slightly better enmity generation (which would most likely be fixed if you increased DPS and AoE capabilities).

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How can you justify a Job which is not meant to solo for one. Killing 8 Lvl. 51-54 mobs by Him/Herself? Also they didn't nerfed a nerf is taking away from a char not giving it nothing else. They reduced the SC dmg but Raised its single target DPS.

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Originally Posted by Firon

How can you justify a Job which is not meant to solo for one. Killing 8 Lvl. 51-54 mobs by Him/Herself? Also they didn't nerfed a nerf is taking away from a char not giving it nothing else. They reduced the SC dmg but Raised its single target DPS.

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Well, I admit that what I was hoping for, if anything, was for a hard line between DPS and tank WAR. But more along the lines of you entering an encounter geared to tank and that's all you were there for; I believe I even undug the stance ideas I had for MRD several months ago when it came up. Maybe I've misunderstood the changes, but that's not what was given to us by the devs.

Maybe they need to nerf WHM too because they can solo lv59 NM. NURF IT NURFFFFF

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Well, I admit that what I was hoping for, if anything, was for a hard line between DPS and tank WAR. But more along the lines of you entering an encounter geared to tank and that's all you were there for; I believe I even undug the stance ideas I had for MRD several months ago when it came up. Maybe I've misunderstood the changes, but that's not what was given to us by the devs.

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Steel Cyclone got a DMG reduction, While whirlwind got a DMG boost and Rampage buff made war even better at at tanking that it already was, also berserk got buffed as well. War still got more stuff than pld when they was suppose to ton down the class. I still think they should have made it so war can't tank w/o Rampage and can't DD w/o Berserk to balance the class properly.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

-Add parrys
-Do not increase Block rate more than nessesary
-Add parrys
-Add parrys
-Increase MP recovery

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This I can agree with.

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-A strong HP restore, I'm talking really strong and pretty much automatic. Invincibility is nice but theres gotta be more.

(okay maybe thats a bit much but you catch my drift right)?

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Well, considering Bloodbath+Goring Blade or Spirits Within is pretty much an awesome combination means we already have something like that.

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Most party setups include 2-3 whm for difficult content. If paladin would be fixed THE RIGHT WAY meaning a high enmity tank/healer, you would eleminate one white mage from the equation(the tank healer), making room for more DD.

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I disagree. Party set ups should be pretty much the same across the board. Two tanks, two healers, 4 DPS if 8-man, maybe 3 tanks, 4 healers and 9 DPS if 16-man. This goes back to that whole parity thing I've been talking about. PLD should be able to take care of itself to a degree (maybe, because I would personally turn Holy Succor into a survivability cooldown), and should never remove a healer slot from the group comp.

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

It's all in ur head.

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agreed. My LS has a tank who prefers PLD, when he wants to play PLD we let him because it works just fine.

Duelle, you need to understand there that Warrior wasn't nerfed at all, merely it's two stances became more 'focused' in their tasks, DPSing and Tanking. Also need to realize how Paladin and Warrior both have a unique difference on how they tank: Warrior can easily tank a large number of mobs but Paladin outshines him on a single one (not saying that Paladin is perfect right now but just mentioning the difference I see according to what people say on those forums)

However, I will mention one small gripe I have with you. You seem to think that Paladin needs DPS for some reason, whereas it seems to run counter to what the design intent is, very low damage, very high tanking skills. DPS is the one thing that Paladin doesn't needs, although it would probably be pretty good to enhance it's raw enmity skills.

The only thing I would like changed as of right now since PLD's skill set and abilities are more a less where they should be; is its HP adjusted so it has more of a pool to work with. Having a larger HP pool would definitely help with mp generation which is great as it is, but with more hp to possible have topped off it would enable you to fully maximize enmity generation for holy succor and still have 1 whm mildly toss cure 1's instead of cure bombing Cure II's because if your anything but topped off and a ability is down, your dead.

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Originally Posted by Skies

Duelle, you need to understand there that Warrior wasn't nerfed at all, merely it's two stances became more 'focused' in their tasks, DPSing and Tanking. Also need to realize how Paladin and Warrior both have a unique difference on how they tank: Warrior can easily tank a large number of mobs but Paladin outshines him on a single one (not saying that Paladin is perfect right now but just mentioning the difference I see according to what people say on those forums)

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Which therefore implies niche tanking, which WILL rear its ugly head more than it already has the further down the line we go. And sadly, XIV, doesn't have the "habit vs game mechanics" conflict that would at least have people say "okay, our PuG will invite that PLD to tank because I equate PLD to tank even though WAR does a pretty damn good job and is better AoE to boot".

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However, I will mention one small gripe I have with you. You seem to think that Paladin needs DPS for some reason, whereas it seems to run counter to what the design intent is, very low damage, very high tanking skills. DPS is the one thing that Paladin doesn't needs, although it would probably be pretty good to enhance it's raw enmity skills.

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The short of it is a that tank DPS matters.

The long version of it is that I would have never brought the point of PLD DPS up were it not for the fact that between the weapons involved (sword vs great axe), there is a notable discrepancy. I've mentioned it in other threads, but if WAR tanking was one-handed axe and shield, I would see no issue because then you can justify both classes doing low damage because their design would then focus on enmity gain. Instead you have a guy with a really big axe doing notably more damage than the guy with a sword plinking away at the mob.

You obviously can't reduce great axe damage to bring it to sword level. Therefore the alternative is find a way to increase sword guy's DPS in some way to bring it within reasonable range. Because tank DPS matters, if you leave sword guy weak 2-handed guy is going to win, which is exactly what has been happening.

I'd love to be able to bring up examples, but I never tanked on a Death Knight in WoW so I really have no idea how that game managed to balance the DPS/threat/aggro playing field between sword&board Warrior and 2-handed weapon Death Knight. I know it's possible (because it happened and I've tanked alongside DKs), but I've never seen the methodology first hand. All I know is that the DPS gap was not sizeable enough to force the group to take a DK over a Warrior, and that's the same dynamic I want to see here.

You seem to have it in your head that DPS is the only way to generate enmity, or at least, that's what your overall stance tells me. The common thought is that "PLD can't DPS, therefore it can't be a tank." The correct answer is "PLD can generate more than enough enmity through it's actions that DDs don't have to hold back and have enough survivability in a lot of situations to allow an extra DPS over a second WHM."

They're two distinct tanking styles right now. A WAR's tanking style is based more around generating enmity through it's own (and with Collusion, other's) damage at the cost of less defensive power. A PLD has a much higher enmity ceiling and more survivability post 1.22a but at the cost of less overall DPS from itself. There are pros and cons to each, now. Several LS and players have more than proven post update that current content, even speed runs, can be achieved with a PLD and a WAR tank.

While the jobs could probably use a little tweaking, there are very few instances where I'd take a PLD over a WAR and vice versa right now.

Thank you, Crysten. I do not have the sufficient language skills to explain my own point as well as you have explained it.

Once again, not saying that the Paladin and Warrior are both perfect as it is, there's a ways to go still (but i'm not sufficiently smart to tell where to go, though), but you're certainly running counter to the design spirit of the two jobs, Duelle.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Maybe they need to nerf WHM too because they can solo lv59 NM. NURF IT NURFFFFF

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LOL Yeah man, I think it's kind of funny WHM has been coming up a lot now as a good soloer. This has always been the case back when they made class changes and CON solo was practically the new THM solo. People are just finding this out NOW?

Ok lets try this:

If you are on the side that says PLD is broken.
Could u please type the exact rotation of the skills,
How do u start tanking? how do u proceed? what skills u use when and such.

Some PLD can show what u doing wrong.
Cause u obviously are.

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

Ok lets try this:

If you are on the side that says PLD is broken.
Could u please type the exact rotation of the skills,
How do u start tanking? how do u proceed? what skills u use when and such.

Some PLD can show what u doing wrong.
Cause u obviously are.

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the start of the fight should go something like this:

1. Maddening pot
2. Rampart
3. Provoke
4. Sentinel
5. Flat Blade Combo
6. Flash

Throw a Divine Veil or Hallowed Ground in there for even more enmity. It also helps to have enmity materia on your sword and belt and enmity+ everywhere it's possible.

If the BLMs nuke during all of this, it's not the PLDs (or even SE's) fault the tank doesn't have aggro, it's the BLM that nuked. If you want them to nuke form the get go, they better all pop nerve drops first.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

the start of the fight should go something like this:

1. Maddening pot
2. Rampart
3. Provoke
4. Sentinel
5. Flat Blade Combo
6. Flash

Throw a Divine Veil or Hallowed Ground in there for even more enmity. It also helps to have enmity materia on your sword and belt and enmity+ everywhere it's possible.

If the BLMs nuke during all of this, it's not the PLDs (or even SE's) fault the tank doesn't have aggro, it's the BLM that nuked. If you want them to nuke form the get go, they better all pop nerve drops first.

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I must respectfully disagree.

1. Maddening Potion
2. Provoke
3. Aegis Boon
4. Phalanx
5. Spirit's Within
6. Flash
7. Divine Veil
8. War Drum
9. Provoke
10. Fast/Flat Blade Combo

*Rampart can be placed anywhere when your melee are in range and it won't potentially interrupt a combo.

EDIT:

This will allow your mages to start nuking from the get go. You still run the risk of ripping enmity off the tank, but as you said, it's up to the mages to determine whether it's safe to nuke or not. If you decide to Thundara while in the red, that's your bad, not the tanks.

One on one PLD does fine.. i.e. a Primal fight or a dungeon boss. WAR outshines PLD because of it's ability to do one on one fight's and also crowd control with AOE WS's in fights... of which PLD has no AOE WS. PLD only has AOE Flash & well... AOE Flash since War Drum's cool down is abysmal.

This game seems to be geared toward (with no end in sight) the idea of throwing as many mobs as possible at a party at once. That being said, PLD's AOE hate generating moves either have too high of a cooldown (Since your supposed to torch through content at neck-breaking speeds to get time attack rewards) or don't generate enough threat when compared to WAR's.

All I want to know is how/when they plan on leveling the playing field. They took away AOE WS's from GLA, took away Emnity modifier from Phalanx. I'm not saying both can't tank, it's just that the playing field hardly seems level at all when you compare the two in VARIOUS situations.

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Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki

One on one PLD does fine.. i.e. a Primal fight or a dungeon boss. WAR outshines PLD because of it's ability to do one on one fight's and also crowd control with AOE WS's in fights... of which PLD has no AOE WS. PLD only has AOE Flash & well... AOE Flash since War Drum's cool down is abysmal.

This game seems to be geared toward (with no end in sight) throwing many mobs at a party at once. That being said, PLD's AOE hate generating moves either have too high of a cooldown (Since your supposed to torch through content at neck-breaking speeds to get time attack rewards) or don't generate enough threat when compared to WAR's.

All I want to know is how/when they plan on leveling the playing field. They took away AOE WS's from GLA, took away Emnity modifier from Phalanx. I'm not saying both can't tank, it's just that the playing field hardly seems level at all when you compare the two in VARIOUS situations.

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So...you want two different jobs that do the exact same thing?

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

the start of the fight should go something like this:

1. Maddening pot
2. Rampart
3. Provoke
4. Sentinel
5. Flat Blade Combo
6. Flash

Throw a Divine Veil or Hallowed Ground in there for even more enmity. It also helps to have enmity materia on your sword and belt and enmity+ everywhere it's possible.

If the BLMs nuke during all of this, it's not the PLDs (or even SE's) fault the tank doesn't have aggro, it's the BLM that nuked. If you want them to nuke form the get go, they better all pop nerve drops first.

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Maddening potion better after aggro. and also no Rampart before aggro. it only works after u get hate on mob.
Otherwise it's useless.

Also Sentinel always before voke and flash cause it amplifies hate skills.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki

One on one PLD does fine.. i.e. a Primal fight or a dungeon boss. WAR outshines PLD because of it's ability to do one on one fight's and also crowd control with AOE WS's in fights... of which PLD has no AOE WS. PLD only has AOE Flash & well... AOE Flash since War Drum's cool down is abysmal.

This game seems to be geared toward (with no end in sight) the idea of throwing as many mobs as possible at a party at once. That being said, PLD's AOE hate generating moves either have too high of a cooldown (Since your supposed to torch through content at neck-breaking speeds to get time attack rewards) or don't generate enough threat when compared to WAR's.

All I want to know is how/when they plan on leveling the playing field. They took away AOE WS's from GLA, took away Emnity modifier from Phalanx. I'm not saying both can't tank, it's just that the playing field hardly seems level at all when you compare the two in VARIOUS situations.

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What battle is it in which u actually need a tank and is not one on one?

Ifrit?
Coincounter?
Princcesss?
Chimera?
Garuda?
Batraal?
Slave?
Which one?

Mogs?
In mogs kiter is kitting 2 mobs (can flash or war drum)
And off tank tanks one mob.

And please stop saying that WAR generates more hate than PLD for the love of cheezuuuus!!!

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I must respectfully disagree.

1. Maddening Potion
2. Provoke
3. Aegis Boon
4. Phalanx
5. Spirit's Within
6. Flash
7. Divine Veil
8. War Drum
9. Provoke
10. Fast/Flat Blade Combo

*Rampart can be placed anywhere when your melee are in range and it won't potentially interrupt a combo.

EDIT:

This will allow your mages to start nuking from the get go. You still run the risk of ripping enmity off the tank, but as you said, it's up to the mages to determine whether it's safe to nuke or not. If you decide to Thundara while in the red, that's your bad, not the tanks.

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Right after Aegis u can pop both War Drum and the spirits within combo without the need of another block.
Also dont forget sentinel before voke and flash or even flat blade combo.

Sentinel + flash + voke + Rampart on all 8 members of pt = dead serious killer hate!!!
Like Megatron's hate for Prime... u know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

Right after Aegis u can pop both War Drum and the spirits within combo without the need of another block.

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While the timing allows that, you may not have TP to do both since you are doing this from the very start of the fight. That's why I don't Aegis Boon before I engage the mob. I want to be sure I have at least enough or close to enough TP for Phalanx.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

Also dont forget sentinel before voke and flash or even flat blade combo.

Sentinel + flash + voke + Rampart on all 8 members of pt = dead serious killer hate!!!
Like Megatron's hate for Prime... u know?

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Was there not currently an issue where Sentinel isn't affecting skills at the moment? Also, while I advocate for PLD tanking, having all 8 players in range for Rampart during a fight isn't always realistically possible.