Is it just me or are some Healers refusing to Heal Paladins?

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

And? Just heal them. We're there to keep the HP bars filled. That's our role and position in the party. It doesn't matter how they got depleted. And it speaks more of us as healers if we are capable of doing it all and keeping it all well balanced than letting one side suffer for the sake of the other.

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No. I'm there to keep their HP from reaching zero, not keeping it full.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

No. I'm there to keep their HP from reaching zero, not keeping it full.

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We're there to keep their health where it needs to be so they can be confident in performing their jobs without worrying about whether they're going to die. It doesn't have to be 100%, but it shouldn't be hovering near 0 either. So, yes, sometimes we're going to need to cast a GCD heal if someone in our party does something dumb.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

I think your comment is the most moderate and I’d argue fair when comes to healers. Yes Healer should DPS to help out, but when you make your tank feel like they are walking a tightrope it can be nerve wrecking however, I typically don’t complain as much with that play style anymore because as long as I am still alive they have done their job.

I feel you as this is a balancing issue and I feel Sage’s were created for the specific player base who likes to DPS.

On other jobs like Gunbreaker and Dark Knight its business as usual in terms of tanking, but again with Paladins there is now an expectation of you healing yourself the entire time and the Healers barely healing and they DPS now 98% of the time except for boss battles.

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My guy, let me tell you something, from one experienced tank to another.

Let them kill you.

Don't feel nervous, don't feel skittish, don't panic. If you mitigated correctly and your hp dropped to zero, dust yourself off and carry on. You didn't wipe the party, they did.


Your death (after you've done everything correctly) should be a wake-up call either for your healer or your dps party members or both. Let them either slap themselves into a state of absolute focus or explain themselves sheepishly why they thought letting your hp drop to zero was a good idea. If your healer is struggling to heal you (despite you mitigating properly), that's a different situation. There's no tightrope-ing here unless you create it in your mind.

Now personally, doing my experts practically everyday almost as a tank, I feel like my healers are very gung-ho about getting through the dgns as fast a possible and if they suspect even a little bit that you can self-sustain, they'll take you up on it. And why not? WAR, GNB and yes, even PLD cruising by with their shiny new toys, leaving healers do to minimalistic healing that actually does the job 8/10 times. So naturally, they're left with all that downtime to choose between sucking their thumbs and wait until you're taking damage to overheal or filling their time with dpsing with their "engaging" dps skills.

I'm actually wondering if Paladins know what an Excogitation is, let alone one boosted by Recitation? It's almost comical when they start spamming clemancy with a clear buff on them. It starts being less comical when you get flamed for "making" them use clemancy though...

Healer is truly the only role in the game where by getting better (less overhealing) you are less appreciated by the average player.

A key thing that you've missed is that HP is a healer resource, not a tank's. You only need to have enough HP to survive the next hit, your percent HP is irrelevant. You probably feel like Paladins get healed the least because Paladin is the only tank class that is in a position to affect HP at-will and therefore actually notice it more. Remove Clemency from your hotbars and forget you have it.

Another thing to point out is that healing isn't always obvious. I will never cast a GCD heal unless I absolutely have to, so you're not going to see me healing. You will see Dosis constantly on my castbar, and that's the way it should be. All of my oGCD heals aren't going to notify you when you're being healed, that doesn't mean I'm not healing. Expert roulettes do not require GCD healing, and even Savage raiding can be completed without casting a single GCD heal. If you're expecting to see GCD healing, you will continually be let down.

Lastly, if you're going from 100% HP to less than 20% in a couple seconds it's a lack of tank cooldowns that's the problem not insufficient healing. A lot of tanks forget that they control how much damage they take. Rampart, Reprisal, Arm's Length and Sentinel are not optional, you MUST use these else you will be reduced to Clemency spamming. Healers know how much damage to expect the tank to take, and if you're taking more than you should they could be caught-off guard. Again, it's the tanks fault in this case, not the healer's.

All in all, trust your healers more and get comfortable with low HP. Sitting at 30% HP is just fine. If you're going to jump to Clemency the second you feel uncomfortable healers aren't even going to have the chance to heal you like you're asking.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Now personally, doing my experts practically everyday almost as a tank, I feel like my healers are very gung-ho about getting through the dgns as fast a possible and if they suspect even a little bit that you can self-sustain, they'll take you up on it. And why not? WAR, GNB and yes, even PLD cruising by with their shiny new toys, leaving healers do to minimalistic healing that actually does the job 8/10 times. So naturally, they're left with all that downtime to choose between sucking their thumbs and wait until you're taking damage to overheal or filling their time with dpsing with their "engaging" dps skills.

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Tank sustain isn't the only thing making W2W pulls possible. DPS get new toys too, and mobs melt before your sustainability runs out. It's a really good thing the healer has the ability to quickly patch things up should things not go so smoothly while still being able to contribute to that damage that ultimately keeps you from eating dirt. You know, those 2/10 times you pointed out? Because even though you have a ton of sustainability, your DPS by itself is like hitting the boss with a wet noodle.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

No. I'm there to keep their HP from reaching zero, not keeping it full.

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Ah yes. The "If you can walk away from a landing..." approach?

While true, that doesn't make it anymore smooth or comfortable, does it?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Tank sustain isn't the only thing making W2W pulls possible. DPS get new toys too, and mobs melt before your sustainability runs out. It's a really good thing the healer has the ability to quickly patch things up should things not go so smoothly while still being able to contribute to that damage that ultimately keeps you from eating dirt. You know, those 2/10 times you pointed out? Because even though you have a ton of sustainability, your DPS by itself is like hitting the boss with a wet noodle.

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The icing on the cake, friend. Sweet, sweet icing.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

We're there to keep their health where it needs to be so they can be confident in performing their jobs without worrying about whether they're going to die. It doesn't have to be 100%, but it shouldn't be hovering near 0 either. So, yes, sometimes we're going to need to cast a GCD heal if someone in our party does something dumb.

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No, if they do something dumb they will likely die and learn from their mistake. Or don't. I don't really care.

The same goes for that bard standing on the other side of the arena btw. There is a perfectly fine Asylum in the middle. If you are not standing in it I hope you have Second Wind mapped.

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Earn my heals. Beg for them! <3

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About to go full pick me and drop a kardia on someone.

None of us were present in your experiences so I can only take this as grain of salt.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

Greatest thing about the Paladin is the Healing Ability and it can make a difference as an off tank when things are getting real bad in a raid but I noticed for Endwalker content I have healers who are absolutely refusing to heal or will only start maybe healing once the Paladin's MP is exhausted healing himself well the healer is just DPSing.

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As a healer main, seeing a PLD using Clemency is a yellow flag to me. Endwalker blesses PLD with much needed sustenance in form of their Holy Spirit/Circles self heals (you can even proc Divine Veil yourself without touching Clemency this way), always starting encounters with 100 Oath Gauge, and Holy Shelltron regen additions. There's absolutely no need to touch Clemency. If any, the more I see a PLD use their Clemency, the less I'd heal because why do I want to waste that Clemency healing?

I know I know, it's a never ending cycle of feedback between myself and the PLD when this happens. But experience had taught me that 8 out of 10 times, trying to outheal PLDs who insist on Clemencying themselves will never make them Clemency less, because they have little idea how healing works and in the middle of dungeon is certainly not a good place for some tutoring... if they even want one. I might as well Glaroilfisis harder and faster to end the duty faster.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

I have not played a Sage yet, but I know they lack an instant heal, but I have been running with healers who almost never heal and are waiting for me to start healing myself. At a certain point this week I sort of tested this out by barely healing and they would let me die rather than heal me at the start of the dungeon.

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If this happened during first week of EW launch I would understand probably half of the reason these SGEs letting you die: they probably don't know how to heal lol. But I digress, since I don't know when exactly is this happening to you.

Anyway, SGE, on the contrary, is bloated with instant heals. By instant I mean, not requiring cast time. They're currently the epitome of "PlEaSe TaKe DaMaGe I nEeD mOrR mAnA"-healer thanks to how their job gauge operates. If your 'instant' refers to 'instantly full health', then nope. SGE is better designed to control and slow down the damage intake by applying their damage mitigation buff and their plethora of regens.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

Is this a new trend? I just came back into the game last month and thankfully most of the dungeons have been trusts but now I am leveling my alts and the healers are getting bad. I noticed they will heal my DRK and Gunblade but my Paladin again they would rather let me die then heal me.

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Because it's commonly known that in EW DRK and GNB (well not really actually..) has the least self sustenance in the tanks roster. Said healers could've also been babied too badly with other better WAR/PLD tanks in their previous runs so naturally they'd come to expect the same from you. (Which means, it's just a case of bad healer encounter, not a trend)

A trend? Not really? If any, whenever I roll into DF contents as a non-healer, 9 out of 10 times I wished I AM the healer because it's always the Curebot, Medicabot, and/or Netflix healers that fills the healer slot. Then guess what happens when things go south or when party (including myself) make mistakes? These healers also have 90% of failure from preventing a wipe. Once in a blue moon a random chad filled the healer slot and everything went ever so smoothly.

This is why I mainly stick to green icons.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

No, if they do something dumb they will likely die and learn from their mistake. Or don't. I don't really care.

The same goes for that bard standing on the other side of the arena btw. There is a perfectly fine Asylum in the middle. If you are not standing in it I hope you have Second Wind mapped.

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Why are you playing a healer role? Is it just for quick queues? Because it's obvious you don't want to help your party. I won't chase down someone out of heal range if it puts the rest of the group in danger either, but there's zero reason to not drop something on someone standing well within range even if they did something stupid if you are honestly there trying to support and be a credit to your party.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

I won't chase down someone out of heal range if it puts the rest of the group in danger either, but there's zero reason to not drop something on someone standing well within range even if they did something stupid if you are honestly there trying to support and be a credit to your party.

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Personally speaking, it depends on which duty I'm getting thrown in.

Getting Narnian BRD in Aurum Vale? Fine, I'll target them.
Narnian MCH battling 1 on 1 against one stray mob in Steps of Faith? Fine too, I'll target them.
Both healers stuck in 1 separate platform in E3N? Not much choice, let's target them.

But a Narnian DNC in Knave of Heart at Paradigm? "Buddy... I hope you have that lingering regen ticking on you or I have fairy tether gauge to spare cause if 80 levels worth of gameplay didn't teach you to not live in Narnia, then Idk what else will."

Healing has been so unengaging for me my eyes have started to glaze over in expert roulette etc now. I sorely miss my stormblood astro, though its new animations and such are lovely I hate astrodyne and just how little healing in general content I need to do. That said even with eyes glazed over my tank never dies or gets close to dying, not that hard to spam 1, push 2 now and again and on the rare occasion throw a heal or mitigation out.. I don't even need to be looking at my screen most of the time now!

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

Healing has been so unengaging for me my eyes have started to glaze over in expert roulette etc now.

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Haven't been capping my tomes since week 3. I don't do expert because I don't have whm leveled, I don't level whm because whm is the worst/most unfun healer to play currently.

It's a vicious cycle.

There are healers who refuse to heal period. They only want short queues. Some of them even have the nerve to come to these forums to complain about how terrible everybody else play because they have to heal them... as a healer... preposterous!!! Don't worry, fortunately there are not too many of those.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Why are you playing a healer role? Is it just for quick queues? Because it's obvious you don't want to help your party. I won't chase down someone out of heal range if it puts the rest of the group in danger either, but there's zero reason to not drop something on someone standing well within range even if they did something stupid if you are honestly there trying to support and be a credit to your party.

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I play a healer to push the boundaries of the survivability meta-game and find the exact minimum amount required to pass a given survivability check. Unlike the endless scale of offensive capabilities, survivability has a very sharp boundary where anything extra becomes useless. Skirting this boundary is what I often do. I find this fun.

I don't play healer to give out hugs, kiss booboos and stave off your (t)anxiety attacks. I don't find this fun.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Why are you playing a healer role? Is it just for quick queues? Because it's obvious you don't want to help your party. I won't chase down someone out of heal range if it puts the rest of the group in danger either, but there's zero reason to not drop something on someone standing well within range even if they did something stupid if you are honestly there trying to support and be a credit to your party.

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We don't heal. We control whether you live or die.

*Diabolical laughing*

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Healers in this game don't like healing. They like being DPS with a fast queue time. They'll tell you that they like healing but it's not actually what they want.

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No, no, no. What I want as a healer is to actually heal. You could take literally every single DPS ability I have away(the whole two I use on a regular basis) and I'd be thrilled. The problem is that there is nothing to DO with those heals. If I have a warrior tank, I could literally never toss a single heal at them and we'd do just fine. And the other tanks are easy enough to heal with an occasional instant GCD heal.

I actually have gone back to play things like Project 1999 Everquest as a healer because I WANT to heal. I don't want to fight things. If I wanted to do that I'd play a dps class. Heck, my friend offers me to come DPS with him on tank and another FC member on heals and I turn them down because I don't want to be a DPS class.

The overwhelming majority of healers want to be healing. That's the fun of the role. We end up asking for more DPS options because the developers have made it perfectly clear over the past 9 years that they will never actually make dungeons challenging. They will never actually have healers needing to heal. This last expansion has made this even more obvious considering if you healer dies, the tank can usually solo the bosses on their own.

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Originally Posted by Rhysati

No, no, no. What I want as a healer is to actually heal. You could take literally every single DPS ability I have away(the whole two I use on a regular basis) and I'd be thrilled. The problem is that there is nothing to DO with those heals. If I have a warrior tank, I could literally never toss a single heal at them and we'd do just fine. And the other tanks are easy enough to heal with an occasional instant GCD heal.

I actually have gone back to play things like Project 1999 Everquest as a healer because I WANT to heal. I don't want to fight things. If I wanted to do that I'd play a dps class. Heck, my friend offers me to come DPS with him on tank and another FC member on heals and I turn them down because I don't want to be a DPS class.

The overwhelming majority of healers want to be healing. That's the fun of the role. We end up asking for more DPS options because the developers have made it perfectly clear over the past 9 years that they will never actually make dungeons challenging. They will never actually have healers needing to heal. This last expansion has made this even more obvious considering if you healer dies, the tank can usually solo the bosses on their own.

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I honestly prefer healing when it's a hybrid of DPS and healing but I completely agree, the issue is that both those aspects are just boring in ff. It's so unengaging at both ends.

This is a first, I met some random guy who kept using superbolide at 50% HP. They eventually died because they used it at the end of a boss which had 0.5% HP with once again, 50%~ish tank hp. Please people, don't use this unless you really have to and abusing it seems very trollish. It throws healers off their rotation. I don't let people die usually and weave in heals when they are needed even if your HP is at 30%. But this guy was constantly using it at 50%. Seriously, don't. No healer expects SB to be used at 50% lol

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Originally Posted by Erik501

There are healers who refuse to heal period. They only want short queues. Some of them even have the nerve to come to these forums to complain about how terrible everybody else play because they have to heal them... as a healer... preposterous!!! Don't worry, fortunately there are not too many of those.

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The more I see these the more I think that duty roulette needs to be earned by recent recent player commendations.
There’s a lot of 90 percenters (90s across the board) with terrible attitudes, probably because they play too much and you are slowing them down.
People who view the duty roulette xp as an entitlement.
Maybe not +1 commendations but some kind of karma idk, those kinds of players nobody wants to play with and nobody should have to suffer them in duty roulette

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Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise

The more I see these the more I think that duty roulette needs to be earned by recent recent player commendations.
There’s a lot of 90 percenters (90s across the board) with terrible attitudes, probably because they play too much and you are slowing them down.
People who view the duty roulette xp as an entitlement.
Maybe not +1 commendations but some kind of karma idk, those kinds of players nobody wants to play with and nobody should have to suffer them in duty roulette

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RIP dps players who get like little to no comms lol

Maybe I'm just lucky (or a combo with me not caring enough) but at least recently I haven't really had anyone with a terrible 'tude. I think most people would be begrudgingly ok if you asked them to slow down

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Originally Posted by 24spencer

I honestly prefer healing when it's a hybrid of DPS and healing but I completely agree, the issue is that both those aspects are just boring in ff. It's so unengaging at both ends.

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Agreed, I would, and have never played any game (over many years) any job/class in a healing or support role that didn't offer an option to have both DPS and healing skills. That doesn't mean that i was some 'wannabe DPS", nor did it mean that I didn't want to heal, it was reflection that I wanted to multiple types of content, just like other jobs.

I'm a healer main but also an old-school MMO player where top healers (I used to be the MT Healer in the #1 progression guild in another MMO back in the day) had to spend most of their time Healing. I still play like that in some ways. In FFXIV I do not play with a regular group so it's always random people form duty finder. I like to keep my party at 80%. Since I don't know any of these people, and they don't know me, it's less stress for me and less stress for them. I usually get a bunch of comms even if this means I can't always do this ONLY with oGCDs and have to cast heals. The reality is with Duty Finder you get a large range of player skill levels for both tanks and how quickly and efficient your DPS is at bursting down large pulls. (Last night I even had a DPS get lost somehow even though the dungeon is a straight corridor...)

I DPS when I feel content with HP levels and there is otherwise nothing else to do, which is still plenty of time. Of course, I typically will do my Holy chain to Stun first until it doesn't stun anymore since that's also preventing damage the same way I'd use stuns to prevent damage in other MMOs. For me the DPS is just an added bonus.

I'm not really obsessed with DPS while healing but I follow "always be casting" so I'm never doing nothing. I think this playstyle is more than fine and my randoms seem to appreciate never having to worry or stress. Now that I've played Heals, DPS, and Tanks in FFXIV I understand my potency is pretty much the lowest of everyone else in the group so if someone needs to spend time healing it should be me.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

No, if they do something dumb they will likely die and learn from their mistake. Or don't. I don't really care.

The same goes for that bard standing on the other side of the arena btw. There is a perfectly fine Asylum in the middle. If you are not standing in it I hope you have Second Wind mapped.

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Groan. I don't know why some people think every random duty finder has to be "teachable moments" for less skilled players. You are punished too with their deaths. If it bothers you so much having to deal with random players who get hit by avoidable mechanics and needing to heal them, just play something else.

I also noticed in general if you make people uncomfortable they instinctively back off, start kiting and stop dps when they feel in danger. The run goes even slower. Maybe you enjoy spending your time berating your random duty finders and thinking you are "teaching them" - I just find this mindset incredibly tiring and unnecessary.

There is helpful advice, and then there is just being obnoxious.

Anyway, I far prefer being a "no one dies on my watch" healer than "I chose not to heal you as you got hit by something that was avoidable."

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Anyway, I far prefer being a "no one dies on my watch" healer than "I chose not to heal you as you got hit by something that was avoidable."

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Same. I don't care why they took the damage except with one caveat. If they have a "healer adjust" attitude and convey that in chat, then they'll still get healed but they're going to the bottom of my priority list because they're intentionally squandering my resources and working against the party's best interests, usually because they're parsing and too concerned about their dps numbers in casual content. I can count on one hand the times that's happened in nearly 8 years.

If someone is swimming in AoEs constantly I just assume they're new, they're inexperienced, they're having a bad day, whatever and just heal them.

The best answer is, did you die? The role of healer is to keep alive, not quell your lifebar anxiety. Overhealing is less damage.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

It may even behoove tanks, at this point, to prepare macros for the start of encounters/dungeons and let healers know just how much healing they need and/or expect (because some can't handle seeing their HP drop below even as much as 90% before they blow a gasket).

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Very good idea but keep in mind we have console players that can use that because you do have PC players who do not understand you can’t simply click if your using a controller.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

And? Just heal them. We're there to keep the HP bars filled. That's our role and position in the party. It doesn't matter how they got depleted. And it speaks more of us as healers if we are capable of doing it all and keeping it all well balanced than letting one side suffer for the sake of the other.

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The comment your responding to is exactly what I am talking about. Yes it’s the tank’s job to take damage but it’s the healers job to keep them alive that damage is adding up but its like the difference between a Rideshare driver and a delivery driver. Rideshare drivers are spoiled and feel they should be paid and tipped before a service and expect the customer to do the delivery drivers job like come to the delivery driver instead of the delivery driver delivering. We have the same problem with the healers who expect you to do their job.
Wow the person you quoted is the problem within the game right now.

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Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

I suspect It has nothing to do with you being a paladin. The healer was probably just a idiot. some healers can't even manage to walk ten steps without tripping and dying from from a broken neck. but hey at least you don't have my magic ability to pretty much always get one of the dumbest healers there are any time you try to run as dark knight

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As another healer here just quoted from another Healer they do not feel it’s their job to heal. That’s the problem. Again not all healers are like this but you got a lot of healers now that just would rather DPS.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

We're there to keep their health where it needs to be so they can be confident in performing their jobs without worrying about whether they're going to die. It doesn't have to be 100%, but it shouldn't be hovering near 0 either. So, yes, sometimes we're going to need to cast a GCD heal if someone in our party does something dumb.

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This I can cosign.

Now personally, doing my experts practically everyday almost as a tank, I feel like my healers are very gung-ho about getting through the dgns as fast a possible and if they suspect even a little bit that you can self-sustain, they'll take you up on it. And why not? WAR, GNB and yes, even PLD cruising by with their shiny new toys, leaving healers do to minimalistic healing that actually does the job 8/10 times. So naturally, they're left with all that downtime to choose between sucking their thumbs and wait until you're taking damage to overheal or filling their time with dpsing with their "engaging" dps skills.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, you are right and yeah this happened a couple of times last night during a final boss on what is typically an easy final boss. It was simply because the healer really did not heal and we always died at the same point where the damage was going to come in to everyone and because of the lack of heals we kept dying. After the 4th wipe the healer finally decided to heal during and before these critical times. At a certain point if everyone is low enough and they are not healed and you are at that point in a boss battle where the boss will use his or her ultimate its hard to recover if everyone was not being healer and we are low at that point.

I had to become a Healer last year to see how much better it is as a Healer when you make sure everyone is good and you communicate with your tank to let them know they can pull big or maybe small depending on the area and risk.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Haven't been capping my tomes since week 3. I don't do expert because I don't have whm leveled, I don't level whm because whm is the worst/most unfun healer to play currently.

It's a vicious cycle.

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I personally love my White Mage. There is something calm about making sure everyone is okay and helping where I can. White Mage better fits my personality since I love helping and I am in Public Health and Knights of Malta (Current name for the Knights Hospitaller order from the Crusades).

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

I'm a healer main but also an old-school MMO player where top healers (I used to be the MT Healer in the #1 progression guild in another MMO back in the day) had to spend most of their time Healing. I still play like that in some ways. In FFXIV I do not play with a regular group so it's always random people form duty finder. I like to keep my party at 80%. Since I don't know any of these people, and they don't know me, it's less stress for me and less stress for them. I usually get a bunch of comms even if this means I can't always do this ONLY with oGCDs and have to cast heals. The reality is with Duty Finder you get a large range of player skill levels for both tanks and how quickly and efficient your DPS is at bursting down large pulls. (Last night I even had a DPS get lost somehow even though the dungeon is a straight corridor...)

I DPS when I feel content with HP levels and there is otherwise nothing else to do, which is still plenty of time. Of course, I typically will do my Holy chain to Stun first until it doesn't stun anymore since that's also preventing damage the same way I'd use stuns to prevent damage in other MMOs. For me the DPS is just an added bonus.

I'm not really obsessed with DPS while healing but I follow "always be casting" so I'm never doing nothing. I think this playstyle is more than fine and my randoms seem to appreciate never having to worry or stress. Now that I've played Heals, DPS, and Tanks in FFXIV I understand my potency is pretty much the lowest of everyone else in the group so if someone needs to spend time healing it should be me.

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I agree, my time healing I was never asked to DPS more. If anything, I got a ton of thank you for not stressing me out by keeping my alive. Though healers still gets the blame when you get someone who tags another room and they die because they moved far away or are standing in a spot where you cannot heal them.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Groan. I don't know why some people think every random duty finder has to be "teachable moments" for less skilled players. You are punished too with their deaths. If it bothers you so much having to deal with random players who get hit by avoidable mechanics and needing to heal them, just play something else.

I also noticed in general if you make people uncomfortable they instinctively back off, start kiting and stop dps when they feel in danger. The run goes even slower. Maybe you enjoy spending your time berating your random duty finders and thinking you are "teaching them" - I just find this mindset incredibly tiring and unnecessary.

There is helpful advice, and then there is just being obnoxious.

Anyway, I far prefer being a "no one dies on my watch" healer than "I chose not to heal you as you got hit by something that was avoidable."

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There is a fundamental difference in our mindset. You show up to content to keep healthbars full. I show up to heal as efficiently as possible and will not adjust for bad play. Simple.

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Originally Posted by DanielNegreanu_Adamantoise

The more I see these the more I think that duty roulette needs to be earned by recent recent player commendations.
There’s a lot of 90 percenters (90s across the board) with terrible attitudes, probably because they play too much and you are slowing them down.
People who view the duty roulette xp as an entitlement.
Maybe not +1 commendations but some kind of karma idk, those kinds of players nobody wants to play with and nobody should have to suffer them in duty roulette

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Nah. Curebots get showered in comms and healers who actually know what they are doing don't get much because tanks and DPS who don't know how healing works don't see them casting benefic. It's worse in 8 man stuff because other players assume the """glarebot""" is chadding and are unloading all the healing onto the curebot when the other healer with 80% overhealing just leaves them nothing to heal in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

There is a fundamental difference in our mindset. You show up to content to keep healthbars full. I show up to heal as efficiently as possible and will not adjust for bad play. Simple.

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And since I do adjust to bad playstyles, I'm sure there are times where my runs are faster and more efficient than yours as I don't say "oh well the DPS died. Hope they learned their lesson."

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Groan. I don't know why some people think every random duty finder has to be "teachable moments" for less skilled players. You are punished too with their deaths. If it bothers you so much having to deal with random players who get hit by avoidable mechanics and needing to heal them, just play something else.

I also noticed in general if you make people uncomfortable they instinctively back off, start kiting and stop dps when they feel in danger. The run goes even slower. Maybe you enjoy spending your time berating your random duty finders and thinking you are "teaching them" - I just find this mindset incredibly tiring and unnecessary.

There is helpful advice, and then there is just being obnoxious.

Anyway, I far prefer being a "no one dies on my watch" healer than "I chose not to heal you as you got hit by something that was avoidable."

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Agreed, though as a healer if I did encounter a toxic group I would just leave the group and report but other all I agree I as a healer I can’t see myself letting people die to teach a lesson.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azuri

There is a fundamental difference in our mindset. You show up to content to keep healthbars full. I show up to heal as efficiently as possible and will not adjust for bad play. Simple.

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You have to adjust or leave the duty, that's reportable.

Prohibited Behavior in Final Fantasy XIV

Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.

For example, the following types of situations fall under the act of giving an advantage to the enemy (or the opposing team/players in PvP content):

"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by technole

You have to adjust or leave the duty, that's reportable.

Prohibited Behavior in Final Fantasy XIV

Aiding the enemy / Uncooperative behavior / Lethargic behavior
Refers to an act of performing actions that give an advantage to an enemy (monsters, or the opposing team/players in PvP content) by not performing the necessary gameplay required of the situation. This may be combined with combat sabotage as well.

For example, the following types of situations fall under the act of giving an advantage to the enemy (or the opposing team/players in PvP content):

"I don't want to heal because there is a player I don't like in the group."

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Difference in playstyle. ;)

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Difference in playstyle. ;)

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People say this from a reddit screenshot of a GM comment back in 2016, but nowhere in the rules is "difference in playstyle" given as an excuse for prohibited behavior.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

People say this from a reddit screenshot of a GM comment back in 2016, but nowhere in the rules is "difference in playstyle" given as an excuse for prohibited behavior.

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Go discuss intricacies of ToS with someone who cares please. Thing is arbitrary enough that even GMs themselves seem to interpret in differently.

I reiterate my point, after eating something avoidable, you will get an oGCD if I have it. And that's it, since I simply don't have most GCDs mapped. Healers have too many of those healing buttons as is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Go discuss intricacies of ToS with someone who cares please. Thing is arbitrary enough that even GMs themselves seem to interpret in differently.

I reiterate my point, after eating something avoidable, you will get an oGCD if I have it. And that's it, since I simply don't have most GCDs mapped. Healers have too many of those healing buttons as is.

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Sorry I ruined your winking "gotcha" moment one post ago. *shrug*

Anyway, I'm more than happy to play and heal newer, less skilled players. I'd far rather play with kind and patient people than players like you - who quite amusingly probably have slower runs by letting people die.

This thread really reminds me that SE really needs to add more healer trusts in the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Difference in playstyle. ;)

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Necessary gameplay and difference in playstyle are not mutually exclusive, nice try though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by technole

You have to adjust or leave the duty, that's reportable.

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To play devil's advocate, the DPS being off in Narnia could also be classed as 'Uncooperative behaviour' as you are actively making the job of the healer harder. This swings both ways and is a reason why, in these situations, you cannot just slam down the ToS and not consider the opposing view.

The crux of the matter is, if noone dies, why does it matter whether a healer keeps you fully topped up or not? As a long time tank player, I have come across several types of healers and the only ones I feared for my life are the ones that tunnel vision DPS and do not consider healing at all. I never consider using Clemency unless the healer is dead and even then, if I think I can get through without using it, I will.

In regards to big dungeon pulls, I would honestly say the biggest factor is the DPS. If the DPS is not high enough, it doesn't matter how good your tank/healer are, you will make it harder for them and be more of a nuisance than anything else.