Changes to Savage Loot Lock System

The only person stopping the OP from playing the game with friends/helping out others is the OP.

:(

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

this comes up every time a new savage tier is about to come out. system ain't broke. ppl just wanna get stuff fast but they want you to keep playing, so there's nothing you can do about that.

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I am drone. I like broken systems that waste players time. I like rng. I am rng. I will post against complaints to broken systems to promote my false sense of moral superiority. End of log. Next thread in need of my attention.

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Originally Posted by Anonicat

You haven't cleared savage have you? I can tell. So you really don't get a say.

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Sigh, i really dont want to come down to this because i do know you'll end up crying in the corner like each single time and try another pointless attack to have the final word.
Drop it, if i need to start and destroy your little bit of ego left it will end up badly.
You got one of my character name on this forum, so when you want to start a thing like that you use your brain and you check out its fflogs before saying this.
Even more when it's someone who started savage in shadowbringer, you really have no say about it, humble yourself a bit it's better for you.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

this comes up every time a new savage tier is about to come out. system ain't broke. ppl just wanna get stuff fast but they want you to keep playing, so there's nothing you can do about that.

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if it keeps coming up its because the system is not perfect. if they wanted to "keep people playing" with dumb restrictions to loot like you claim we would stilk have random drops like in coil, where getting BiS couldve taken you forever. Or they wouldn't have added the chests system.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

This would still considerably accelerate the gearing process though, all it would take is a couple of alts or character exchange. Not a great idea.

Think about a simplistic strategy: a static whose members have 1 alt character each. They'll let 2 DPS play on their main character while everyone else is on their alt and let them have all the loot. Then they all swap to their main characters except for the 2 DPS, clear again and gain new loot. So it'll take half the amount of weeks to get the same amount of gear. And I'm pretty sure that there are even more efficient strategies.

With more than 1 alt per player, you can potentially ensure a round of gear for all the main characters in the party every single week...

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peoole already do this. i did this and the whole static got bis in 1 month.


letting 1-2 people with clears join and not screw the rest of the partys loot would only be healthy for the game. all the "problems" you say would arise already exist

maybe they should change it and then all the tryhards can get their stuff and get out and not come back for 6 months while they whine there's nothing to do.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

this comes up every time a new savage tier is about to come out. system ain't broke. ppl just wanna get stuff fast but they want you to keep playing, so there's nothing you can do about that.

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Doc, just one of these times it'd be nice if you actually read the OP before trying to bring down 'ye hammer of pragmatic realism'.

This would not increase the number of chests for a typical run. It just makes it so your entire carrot for running a raid in a given week isn't cut in half the moment you can't find 7 others who have yet to do the raid that week and have to rely instead on help from a friend who has already cleared to round out those numbers.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

That would lead to people wanting to always clear with 7 people who already cleared so they are guaranteed 2 chests all for themself.

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Likewise, already in the OP (brackets added for the context I snipped out):

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Originally Posted by Anonicat

I propose just locking the character [who has already had his one weekly chance at loot] out of loot like it already does. Just get rid of the 2 chest [party-wide penalty] system, and make everything 2 chest.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

maybe they should change it and then all the tryhards can get their stuff and get out and not come back for 6 months while they whine there's nothing to do.

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If you seriously think "tryhards" stay subbed because of dumb time-gated gear and not because of parse/speedkills/ultimate then idk what to tell you.

the ones that dont care about parse/speedkills/ultimate dont even bother with BiS. they literally just clear the tier and then unsub.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Doc, just one of these times it'd be nice if you actually read the OP before trying to bring down 'ye hammer of pragmatic realism'.

This would not increase the number of chests for a typical run. It just makes it so your entire carrot for running a raid in a given week isn't cut in half the moment you can't find 7 others who have yet to do the raid that week and have to rely instead on help from a friend who has already cleared to round out those numbers.



Likewise, already in the OP (brackets added for the context I snipped out):

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2 chest for 8 persons on a first clear of the week for a competent group.
2 chest for 6/7 persons on a clear for people who can't do it without someone else who already have do it.
You dont see what's wrong with this solution ? You get gear faster by subbing someone who already cleared over time than a groupe of 8 poeple doing it right.
You get the picture and how it breaks any balance ?

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Originally Posted by Izscha

2 chest for 8 persons on a first clear of the week for a competent group.
2 chest for 6/7 persons on a clear for people who can't do it without someone else who already have do it.
You dont see what's wrong with this solution ? You get gear faster by subbing someone who already cleared over time than a groupe of 8 poeple doing it right.
You get the picture and how it breaks any balance ?

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You're saying that like it's a matter of subbing in people who have cleared the boss at least once to support a party of learners. That is case where they are already taken for the carry, as the completion value will exceed that of the loot itself. But that's not who would primarily from this. Rather, it would be whoever has already cleared the given raid, just not yet this week, and needs an 8th person, as has commonly been suggested by merely shifting the penalty by one person/chest.

And if the situation in which the gear has already typically been worth sacrificing is such an issue, then--again--simply completely remove the two chest system as a concept. Instead, if you want to imitate the earlier results exactly (minus the chance for any form of gear cheese) each person who clears has, on their first clear only, a 25% chance at a piece of loot, just as before. If they don't want it, they can trade it to, or exchange with a party member who also cleared for the first time that week. Or, just straight up remove the RNG, guaranteeing a piece of flexible raid-unique currency, while charging a higher amount of said currency accordingly so the loot acquisition rate remains, averaged over a party, exactly the same. Until you clear the second tier of the given raid, you can only spend it on whatever the first would have dropped; until you clear the third, you can only purchase what's from the first and second; and so on. Done. Less inventory bloat. Less RNG. No faster gear acquisition, nor any slower (unless you were somehow managing to milk/ninja/guilt loot out of your party previously and such wouldn't work over Trade).

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

You're saying that like it's a matter of subbing in people who have cleared the boss at least once to support a party of learners. That is case where they are already taken for the carry, as the completion value will exceed that of the loot itself. But that's not who would primarily from this. Rather, it would be whoever has already cleared the given raid, just not yet this week, and needs an 8th person, as has commonly been suggested by merely shifting the penalty by one person/chest.

And if the situation in which the gear has already typically been worth sacrificing is such an issue, then--again--simply completely remove the two chest system as a concept. Instead, if you want to imitate the earlier results exactly (minus the chance for any form of gear cheese) each person who clears has, on their first clear only, a 25% chance at a piece of loot, just as before. If they don't want it, they can trade it to, or exchange with a party member who also cleared for the first time that week. Or, just straight up remove the RNG, guaranteeing a piece of flexible raid-unique currency, while charging a higher amount of said currency accordingly so the loot acquisition rate remains, averaged over a party, exactly the same. Until you clear the second tier of the given raid, you can only spend it on whatever the first would have dropped; until you clear the third, you can only purchase what's from the first and second; and so on. Done. Less inventory bloat. Less RNG. No faster gear acquisition, nor any slower (unless you were somehow managing to milk/ninja/guilt loot out of your party previously and such wouldn't work over Trade).

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That's not up to SE to changes things so people can have everything even if they're not in a full party.
You want your 2 chests you have 8 ppl during the week, if you dont you can still clear it with someone else but you give up part of the loot as a price for it and it's far better than having nothing.
That's on your group if you cant be 8 this week no matter what the reason is, so why SE should care about your groups life more than others ?
And if people do prefer to no clear it and loose everything 1 week because "i want 2 chests" that's their greed that do cost them the more, not the rules.

I do get it, you guys wants everything asap but sometimes you dont and it's not a big deal either.
Heck i even help groups who were just happy to have their book monday evening because almost half of them could not make it during this week.

If you're not greedy you wont have a problem with this system, if you are sure let's make magic fix so everyone get everything and all is good and wonderful.

OP: I'd like to be able to help my FC mates waiting forever to find an 8th member for late-week raids without costing them half their loot.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

you guys wants everything asap

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Ahh, flagrant reductionism, we meet again.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

OP: I'd like to be able to help my FC mates waiting forever to find an 8th member for late-week raids without costing them half their loot.


Ahh, flagrant reductionism, we meet again.

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So once again it was never about helping, it's more about i want to give my friends stuff.
Nothing stops you from helping anyone, what stops you is the fact that they rightfully dont get full loot, hence greed.
Thanks for pointing it out.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

So once again it was never about helping, it's more about i want to give my friends stuff.

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Stop putting words in other people's mouths and make actual arguments.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

Nothing stops you from helping anyone, what stops you if the fact that they rightfully dont get full loot, hence greed.
Thanks for pointing it out.

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Consider this all too common scenario that has happened to me more times than i can count since i started doing savage in heavensward:
A: hey we need 1 person to sub tonight can you help us?
B: i already cleared so you wont get 2 chest, sorry
A: oh its fine, i'll ask someone else
(A's group clears that week without problems with someone else and get their 2 chests)
B: i wish i could help my friends clear savage without costing them half their loot.

B wanted to help but didnt want to screw A's loot over. Where is the greed?

Are you going to tell me wanting anything at all is greed now?

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Originally Posted by Izscha

what stops you if the fact that they rightfully dont get full loot, hence greed.

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If B helped A and A got their 2 chests in this scenario, how exactly is that "not right?" A easily cleared without B's help.
If B had an alt, they couldve helped them regardless. Is this "not right" too?
If A had asked them earlier, wether thats days, hours or minutes, B couldve helped thm with no problems. Is this "not right" as well?

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Originally Posted by QooEr

Stop putting words in other people's mouths and make actual arguments.



Consider this all too common scenario that has happened to me more times than i can count since i started doing savage in heavensward:
A: hey we need 1 person to sub tonight can you help us?
B: i already cleared so you wont get 2 chest, sorry
A: oh its fine, i'll ask someone else
(A's group clears that week without problems with someone else and get their 2 chests)
B: i wish i could help my friends clear savage without costing them half their loot.

B wanted to help but didnt want to screw A's loot over. Where is the greed?

Are you going to tell me wanting anything at all is greed now?



If B helped A and A got their 2 chests in this scenario, how exactly is that "not right?" A easily cleared without B's help.

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If they can do it without B's help and get 2 loots there is no problem then, it did involve someone else that did not clear either.
You want 2 chests you take 8 people that's did not clear this week, if you dont you give up loots simple as that you can tweak it all you want and keep quoting me trying to make a way out of it it changes nothing.
And i already did explain how you can play around it earlier to stuff character faster this way, if you only read what you want no problem, but dont ask me to answer question i did already answer earlier.
If you truly and only want help others, make an alt for stuff like this, problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

If they can do it without B's help and get 2 loots there is no problem then

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The problem is the same as it has been from the very beginning. B wanted to play with their friend and they couldnt because of the loot system negatively affecting A. How many times does it have to be repeated until you understand it?

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Originally Posted by Izscha

You want 2 chests you take 8 people that's did not clear this week, if you dont you give up loots simple as that

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And why cant this change? every single pseudo-argument you've given in favor of this system is circular reasoning.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

And i already did explain how you can play around it earlier to stuff character faster this way

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And i, and others have repeatedly told you that what you claim "would happen" for gearing characters faster already happens. The current loot system restrictions change nothing for those that want to "cheat" the system very easily with alts. most normal statics that dont use alts funnel their gear into dps players first as well.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

If you truly and only want help others, make an alt for stuff like this, problem solved.

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I do in fact have a raiding alt :) but its a huge time investment for simply wanting to play with friends without screwing their loot.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

you can tweak it all you want and keep quoting me trying to make a way out of it it changes nothing. [...] And i already did explain how you can play around it earlier to stuff character faster this way, if you only read what you want no problem, but dont ask me to answer question i did already answer earlier.

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If it changes nothing why didnt you answer any of the questions that i asked then? Surely your eloquent arguments with amazing reasoning can stand some scrutiny. None of them were asked before in this thread.

1. B wanted to help but didnt want to screw A's loot over. Where is the greed? Are you going to tell me wanting anything at all is greed now?
2. If B helped A and A got their 2 chests in this scenario, how exactly is that "not right?" A easily cleared without B's help.
3. If B had an alt, they couldve helped them regardless. Is this "not right" too?
4. If A had asked them earlier, wether thats days, hours or minutes, B couldve helped them with no problems. Is this "not right" as well?

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Originally Posted by Anonicat

It's loot, its really not a big deal if people get it fast or not

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So in essence, they are getting their gear slow, and you don't think that's a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

You just directly implied they couldn't read by insinuating they need glasses.
That's literally what ad-hominem is. That's literally what an insult is.
Just because you didn't outright say "You can't read idiot," doesn't mean you didn't do it.

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Ok so i did not insulted anyone on this thread that's what i tought too, once again it comes down to "i do feel like that so you did" and i truly dont care about this kind of childish behavior, so thanks for clearing that up to me.

also need to consider that while the current system works, inconveniencing the rest of you just stretches out the time that people remain subbed to the game, but not at a significant detriment, so it all works out in the end.

Sounds like a fun idea!

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Originally Posted by Izscha

Ok so i did not insulted anyone on this thread that's what i tought too

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Originally Posted by Izscha

childish behavior

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Very much indeed.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

Very much indeed.

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Damn you were able to pick that one, impressive.

I agree that our current savage loot system should be tweaked, specially now that we have a lot of new people playing. A slight modification to what ForteNightshade posted. Two chest for 1-4 people and one chest if more than 4 people have cleared, while adding RitsukoSonada's idea that every book will become universal. The number of books required will still stay the same, while adding some flexibility on gearing either both main or alt roles. if all of this changes are too much to ask for Yoshi-P and team, then I propose to just make savage clears drop two books instead one.

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Originally Posted by Bloudmourne

if all of this changes are too much to ask for Yoshi-P and team, then I propose to just make savage clears drop two books instead one.

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I think just the above, with "just" in the sense of "only", would be almost perfect:

Drop the RNG (coffers), and double the guaranteed, flexible drops (that leave no available exploitation). Simple. Easy. Thorough.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

And making it even more RNG while the items already are you can be sure you would see a lot of ppl crying here that they had 87.5 % and it did not appear.
You want your stuff you kill the stuff with your group, if you can't no big deal maybe next week you ll get it and those who do things right will get their stuff week after week.

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So your argument against an improved system is "people who can't do math would whine they didn't get loot they didn't deserve"? I see no reason to refuse to improve the loot system because of those people.

If 1 person had the clear and the chest had a 87.5% chance to appear as a result ...but didn't, that's simply the equivalent odds of bringing in an 8th person who didn't have the clear and they won the 1 in 8 odds on a Need roll. So your odds of getting loot don't unfairly decrease even if 1 chest vanished by RNG. It's the same RNG as rolling for loot. Or very similar (I won't claim my math is perfect).

Also remember people who kill a boss are ineligible for loot even if chests drop in other runs. It's impossible to abuse such a system for extra gear.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

also need to consider that while the current system works, inconveniencing the rest of you just stretches out the time that people remain subbed to the game, but not at a significant detriment, so it all works out in the end.

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Not quite. even if some groups got a bit more coffers because 2 chests will go to 7 people instead of 8, they would still need to pay for two subs to get BiS.

As long as you cant get Bis in 4 weeks (be it 8, 7 or even 5 weeks) you will need to resub twice to get it. making gearing easier would not affect subs at all if it doesnt go below that threshold.

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Originally Posted by Izscha

Sigh, i really dont want to come down to this because i do know you'll end up crying in the corner like each single time and try another pointless attack to have the final word.
Drop it, if i need to start and destroy your little bit of ego left it will end up badly.
You got one of my character name on this forum, so when you want to start a thing like that you use your brain and you check out its fflogs before saying this.
Even more when it's someone who started savage in shadowbringer, you really have no say about it, humble yourself a bit it's better for you.

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LOL. I did check it out. Thats why i said it my dude. go ahead FFLOGS mine :). And i totally do have a say about it you know why. cause i actually raid. I've stayed subbed throughout the content draught (helping people clear). Cleared 3/4 in Decemember, and helped friends clear who started on e9. Then eventually killed e12s. 5.5 Hits and the PF dies. Why? Loot lock. and the announcement of no new ultimate. Unlock of tier comes around and the all of a sudden its like the PF becomes bright. And you see its people like you that really don't understand. I know I'll get BiS. That's not a problem for me in the slightest. But my friends they may care about loot. They may want to get BIS and leave the game, and come back, and if i've cleared thats taken away from their loot.

Either way. I am asking Square Enix to change the system. If i need to level alts to play with my friends, i will do. I am simply asking Square enix to respect my damn time as a player who loves to play with friends from all over the world, and my damn money. That's not a hard ask. Considering there content doesnt keep a majority of players around.

Btw if i find 7 other people with 8 alts, and we raid. We could split raid and have BIS in 2 weeks. So for your argument of wanting everything asap. Check Mate.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

maybe they should change it and then all the tryhards can get their stuff and get out and not come back for 6 months while they whine there's nothing to do.

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They already do that. Next.

Reiterating.. I want to play with my friends without screwing their loot up, having to pay tons of money, and slogging thru the story X amount of times.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

personally imo if anyone is clearing the savage tier and being fully geared out in BIS by week 2... there's something wrong with you. =p

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As you probably say this alot. You don't pay their sub, if they want BIS by week 2 you are powerless to stop that.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Doc, just one of these times it'd be nice if you actually read the OP before trying to bring down 'ye hammer of pragmatic realism'.

This would not increase the number of chests for a typical run. It just makes it so your entire carrot for running a raid in a given week isn't cut in half the moment you can't find 7 others who have yet to do the raid that week and have to rely instead on help from a friend who has already cleared to round out those numbers.



Likewise, already in the OP (brackets added for the context I snipped out):

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I am a bit late but in reference to Jeeq's post. It doesn't matter that happens already. Second people can take a social stance against that and simply not do a group where 1 person is trying to take all the loot in a PF, and just disband it. Kind of like how 2 chest groups disband when 7/8 haven't cleared, and loot is cut in half.

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Originally Posted by Anonicat

As you probably say this alot. You don't pay their sub, if they want BIS by week 2 you are powerless to stop that.

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He's... not actually powerless to stop that, no. Anyone is free to offer their voice as to what rates of acquisition they game ought to normalize and allow for, and what incentives there should be to continuing playing for more than a single subscription period per raid tier; even if they are not going to partake in those raids, their experience is still indirectly affected, through the game's revenue.

(Were that revenue proportionately spent where players of various sorts want it spend, this would be a non-issue, but it is not; it's all one pool and the more players we have paying into it, for whatever reasons, the higher chance one has of getting the content they want made to be funded.)

Now, I do think switching to personal loot with full tradability (to people who haven't already gotten their one per week), or changing entirely to a single weekly-acquirable currency type per raid tier, with item costs decreased to compensate for the lost drops, would be preferable in that it'd allow people to run with whomever they want, whenever they want, and I'd accept some small degree of gear inflation in favor of being able to help out friends on my main on occasion without screwing them over, but I don't think we can, by principle, say that gear acquisition rates don't matter. They do. They definitely do.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

He's... not actually powerless to stop that, no. Anyone is free to offer their voice as to what rates of acquisition they game ought to normalize and allow for, and what incentives there should be to continuing playing for more than a single subscription period per raid tier; even if they are not going to partake in those raids, their experience is still indirectly affected, through the game's revenue.

(Were that revenue proportionately spent where players of various sorts want it spend, this would be a non-issue, but it is not; it's all one pool and the more players we have paying into it, for whatever reasons, the higher chance one has of getting the content they want made to be funded.)

Now, I do think switching to personal loot with full tradability (to people who haven't already gotten their one per week), or changing entirely to a single weekly-acquirable currency type per raid tier, with item costs decreased to compensate for the lost drops, would be preferable in that it'd allow people to run with whomever they want, whenever they want, and I'd accept some small degree of gear inflation in favor of being able to help out friends on my main on occasion without screwing them over, but I don't think we can, by principle, say that gear acquisition rates don't matter. They do. They definitely do.

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No let me point this out. If I have 7 friends with 8 characters maxed in total you are powerless to stop us.

Doing my own research the people who want changes to this system do savage. The ones who are against it.. don't really clear savage if at all.

You should not get a say in how something changes if you don't do the content.

Just like you dont get to say how engineering should be done if you arent an engineer.

They really don't matter. Cause for as long loot still drops the way it does you can beat the system and gear funnel

People can buy gear with books. Noone is screwed out of anything because it is still accessible. The reward is set so no one can exploit it with a carry.

Imagine caring about how quick people gear up.

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Originally Posted by Anonicat

No let me point this out. If I have 7 friends with 8 characters maxed in total you are powerless to stop us.

Doing my own research the people who want changes to this system do savage. The ones who are against it.. don't really clear savage if at all.

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Gonna need a citation on this one.

When I cleared E8S only 3% of Balmung had cleared it.

I'm BIS DRG and I think your change idea is terrible.

The game should not reward reorganizing static parties around rotating in and out single party members to get full loot every week, which is what your idea would do.

All those people who want full loot are forced to do PF. I PF'd for a great deal of my gear this tier. If I could play with my friends and get full loot every time, I never would have.

People in PF tend not to have statics. That's why they're in PF. What you're suggesting would in fact kill PF. It's why they won't do it.

You can argue with me and deny it all you want, and the change still won't happen, because it would kill PF.

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Originally Posted by Anya_Synia

People can buy gear with books. Noone is screwed out of anything because it is still accessible. The reward is set so no one can exploit it with a carry.

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People already get carried to loot. Next Argument.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Gonna need a citation on this one.

When I cleared E8S only 3% of Balmung had cleared it.

I'm BIS DRG and I think your change idea is terrible.

The game should not reward reorganizing static parties around rotating in and out single party members to get full loot every week, which is what your idea would do.

All those people who want full loot are forced to do PF. I PF'd for a great deal of my gear this tier. If I could play with my friends and get full loot every time, I never would have.

People in PF tend not to have statics. That's why they're in PF. What you're suggesting would in fact kill PF. It's why they won't do it.

You can argue with me and deny it all you want, and the change still won't happen, because it would kill PF.

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This is bait.

"The game should not reward reorganizing static parties around rotating in and out single party members to get full loot every week, which is what your idea would do." -- it already does. Checkmate

Anit no one going to be forced to gear funnel loot with the way i suggested. You can already do that with the current system. If you have 8 people in one static, and all have 8 characters each they can get BIS within a week or 2 now. Read up on what split raids are.
The changes i propose would change nothing that can't be done right now in the game. The only thing that would change is the getting rid of the reduction of chests in the game.

It already exists in the game. People can gear funnel it already. What my original post SUGGESTED locking the character out of loot for the week as the system does ALREADY, AND NOT REDUCING THE CHEST count.

And let's be real. The moment Square starts banning people in the game for TOS violations for saying who made a mistake in a savage fight, they will be the ones to kill the party finder.

As someone with a main static and who has a static she occasionally subs for, this would be a great change, presuming it retains the individual weekly loot lockout. If my main static has already done our reclears and the other group needs a sub, i don't want to have to dust off an alt character if they're also close to the clear that week.

Perhaps as a compromise, change how many alters the number of chests. Right now it's 1 chest per 4 fresh weekly clears, so maybe drop that to 1 chest per 3. This would give us the ability to have up to 2 who've already cleared for the week without impacting chest count, and up to 5 while still getting 1 chest.

Eh you're making a lot of reach with hyperbolic examples. Ever heard the concept "crime of opportunity?" It means because security is so lax it "invites" crime to happen that otherwise will not.

Can you already cheat/exploit the current system? Yes you can. The world first race are not even individuals, they are team. People who take off work to have first week clear and do alt swapping also likely need to set assign good amount of resource for that. You ask what gonna stop you from exploiting if you have 8 alt and 7 friends? Nothing. If you do have 8 raid ready alt then hat off to you, go a head and exploit I wouldn't be mad at you. I've been playing for 8 years and only got my 4th alt to 80 just last week, and I doubt I would ever have more than 2 raid ready at a given time. If you have more, well more power to you I say. But the system ain't there to stop a few groups like your example, it's their to keep the general population in good pace and health. What you're proposing simply gonna make what currently exception with effort become brainless norm. Just like SE don't adjust fight based on how fast the world racers do it, but base on what % they see the player clear overtime.


Also, if you have 8 raid ready alt, what stopping you from reserving a few of them to help your "friends" then. That's exactly why I have 2 raid ready char, one reserve for static and one freelancing. So I doubt this is about your friend, or your "desire" to play with friends. That's simply window dressing for the fact you want the system to become easier to exploit with less effort. Even if you really have friends, then you also just want to have a cake and eat it to. Like many others had said, there is zero thing to keep you from playing with your friends without screwing them over if that's truly is your call.