Mentor abuse DC on purpose

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

When someone else does this, they only represent themselves.
When a mentor does it, they throw a shade on all mentors.

The problem is that they wore their Burger King crown.

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I literally took off my Mentor status back in Stormblood after seeing many mentor just jump ship when they got a fight they dont like.

I do enjoy teaching and being there when we finally overcome the hard fight. It is a sense of achievement, also try to farm some progress for the mount
There are times I do not feel like spending ages to help to teach, and I dont queue for the mentor roulette

It is like having a FC on the name, it is a representative.

Way too easy to become a mentor, even anyone have never intend to provide any coaching

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Originally Posted by nebby00

We do accept the reality that there will be good and bad mentors. All it takes is just reporting the bad ones with their behavior, and making sure that it message comes across that the bad behavior isn't supposed to be tolerated. I don't spend much more than a few seconds over bad mentors, laugh and hit report and move on with my day. But it doesn't excuse the fact once you apply for mentorship you are a mentor; therefore you get put in the spotlight when that little mentor icon is next to your name. Don't want to be put to a higher standard? Don't apply for mentorship.

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By all means report them, but way I see it GM’s hardly enforce their standards on mentors so I really cannot blame people if they ignore the rules. Rules / standards without enforcement are pointless. It legitimately is a pointless role / system people really get too caught up with the ideal of the mentor in my opinion.

That is why I have always been a fan of the idea of turning the crown in a bag of shit, cause honestly that is what the entire system is, a bag of shit.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

Take the 30min penalty
or
do not join mentor roulette if you are not up for the task that throw at you

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Why take the timer if one could just pretend to DC and wait to be removed? Not like a GM will be able to prove you did not really DC?

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Originally Posted by Awha

By all means report them, but way I see it GM’s hardly enforce their standards on mentors so I really cannot blame people if they ignore the rules. Rules / standards without enforcement are pointless.

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True, I do wish that GM's did moderate the NN and mentors with their behavior. The situation has only gotten worse with more mentors only going through the system for the mount alone. And if people feel like they can get away with bad behavior, 99% of the time they'll do it. It's kind of a bit saddening that it needs moderation... but really you can't trust people to actually put themselves to a certain standard without being watched.

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Originally Posted by Awha

That is why I have always been a fan of the idea of turning the crown in a bag of shit, cause honestly that is what the entire system is, a bag of shit.

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Pfft! This actually made me laugh a bit, thanks for that XD

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

yeah i've seen this during my mentor runs and during msq roulettes where they didn't get Praetorium. disconnect and hope to get kicked instead of eating the 30 min penalty.

if you feel like reporting them you can do so.

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Except unless they explicitly said what they were disconnecting on purpose you can't prove they are.

You have zero idea what their ISP is like or their connection.

I am in favor of getting rid of mentor system only if they remove the rewards from doing roulette and retroactively remove people earned mounts, or they give everyone mounts that could be earned from the roulette system. Otherwise leave the mentor system alone if you don't like it don't become a mentor. Of they are rude or dcing a lot report them. A pattern will emerge for this person.

They're not your slave, they are a human being playing a game in their free time. Deal with it.

Give me a global chat and I might ditch the crown. Until then, I am the burger king. Deal with it.

Here is my take on this.

Yes, people like the one OP talks about are bad players but there is really no way to fix this other than remove trial EX fights from the Mentor roulette.

I enjoy trying to help people when I do some mentor roulettes however I start to lose that feeling when people just flat out won't listen. I can't even tell you how many EX fights I've been in where the new sprout tank just instantly pulls the boss while I or someone else is trying to explain things. That's just one of several examples.

I got The Striking Tree (Extreme) once as a tank. My tank partner just wouldn't listen. They just went in tanking and wouldn't pick up orbs and tank swap. Just instantly die every single time. I tried explaining what they need to do but they acted as if chat was just turned off.

I start losing hope and don't want to help people. This happens more often than not.

On another note, I'm getting frustrated with how people see mentors. I don't even turn my little gold crown on anymore because it's a laughing stock. Just the other day I got "The World of Darkness" as my mentor. I jokingly said "wow, I got this for mentor roulette? Ok who needs help?" and instantly someone was replied "weird flex".

I'm sure many "mentors" would love it if they removed ex fights, as then they could just coast through the "mentor" roulette on their way towards the mount. A much higher chance for guildhests too!

I for one am glad that the mentor crown is being seen less and less as a status symbol. It means less and less people will want to become a mentor just for the icon, however the mount reward still remains. Unfortunately, even if they removed the mount it wouldn't fix the issue(s) plaguing NN, but that's for another thread.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

I am in favor of getting rid of mentor system only if they remove the rewards from doing roulette and retroactively remove people earned mounts, or they give everyone mounts that could be earned from the roulette system. Otherwise leave the mentor system alone if you don't like it don't become a mentor. Of they are rude or dcing a lot report them. A pattern will emerge for this person.

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Remove it +1
the Mentor crown like a police or firefighter badge represent certain virtues
now it become a world wide chat room always turn into political
and many Mentors just want to farm mounts and many spouts refuse to be taught

seems to me mentor is just an excuse to get into beginner chat which is like the barrens chat of this game

I had battle mentor status and chose to get rid of it. I only main 1 job and I just figured the icon brings more trouble then it's worth. I'm not sure how they can fix the mentor issues so many people are complaining about but perhaps there should be some new requirements to have the status.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I'm sure many "mentors" would love it if they removed ex fights, as then they could just coast through the "mentor" roulette on their way towards the mount. A much higher chance for guildhests too!

I for one am glad that the mentor crown is being seen less and less as a status symbol. It means less and less people will want to become a mentor just for the icon, however the mount reward still remains. Unfortunately, even if they removed the mount it wouldn't fix the issue(s) plaguing NN, but that's for another thread.

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I want them to remove extremes from mentor roulette or make a separate extreme roulette. The simple matter is that Extremes are overly weighted in mentor roulette as there is no other way to get in besides hard queing for that specific fight which people often do not do. Very few Extremes are actually worth teaching to a group of randoms as most of the time you get a group that won't listen ever. I try to advise people to use the party finder when I get pulled into Extremes and most people appreciate that. In my experience sprouts often do not know what Extremes even are. So they que for it expecting it to be like everything else which it just isn't. Besides why are Extremes on the Mentor roulette when Savages and coils aren't? Are savages seen as too hard? Then what about Extremes? There are some Extremes that are harder than some Savages and honestly I feel like the terms are interchangeable at this point.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I want them to remove extremes from mentor roulette or make a separate extreme roulette. The simple matter is that Extremes are overly weighted in mentor roulette as there is no other way to get in besides hard queing for that specific fight which people often do not do. Very few Extremes are actually worth teaching to a group of randoms as most of the time you get a group that won't listen ever. I try to advise people to use the party finder when I get pulled into Extremes and most people appreciate that. In my experience sprouts often do not know what Extremes even are. So they que for it expecting it to be like everything else which it just isn't. Besides why are Extremes on the Mentor roulette when Savages and coils aren't? Are savages seen as too hard? Then what about Extremes? There are some Extremes that are harder than some Savages and honestly I feel like the terms are interchangeable at this point.

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I might be able to consider extremes being moved from mentor roulette to their own roulette as a good thing... as long as the mount is removed from mentor roulette specifically. Maybe even moved to this new 'extreme' roulette for a large amount of clears perhaps? That way the people doing the mentor roulette are there to be a mentor, and not just working their way towards a reward.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I might be able to consider extremes being moved from mentor roulette to their own roulette as a good thing... as long as the mount is removed from mentor roulette specifically. Maybe even moved to this new 'extreme' roulette for a large amount of clears perhaps? That way the people doing the mentor roulette are there to be a mentor, and not just working their way towards a reward.

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I think you're too focused on punishing people. There's nothing wrong with going for a reward nor is there anything wrong with having a system that tries to encourage responsibility. The overall player-base however has shown that it doesn't care. There's no fixed definition of what a mentor even is and the screen shot posted earlier is open for interpretation in so many ways. The majority of the player base likes teaching people how to play, especially new people. Everyone in that sense is a mentor.

I've mentioned before that I would prefer there be a "Fill Roulette" that has pretty much everything or actually everything on it that becomes accessible to people as they finish expansions. Delete mentor and put the mount on that.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I think you're too focused on punishing people. There's nothing wrong with going for a reward nor is there anything wrong with having a system that tries to encourage responsibility. The overall player-base however has shown that it doesn't care. There's no fixed definition of what a mentor even is and the screen shot posted earlier is open for interpretation in so many ways. The majority of the player base likes teaching people how to play, especially new people. Everyone in that sense is a mentor.

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No. As to the topic of this thread, there are mentors DC'ing to avoid the in-game punishment. When going after the reward trumps actually doing what the role of "mentor" and what the roulette is intended for, I think there is a problem here. How exactly is it a punishment anyway? A mentor should relish the chance at being able to actually help new players regardless of the content, whether it's a extreme or a guildhest. Part of the reason there even is a desirable reward included is to encourage these type of clears, unfortunately that just hasn't worked out.

If extremes were removed, but the reward remains, the "mentors" - like this thread describes - get exactly what they want: spamming quick clears for achievement progress. It in fact encourages nothing, and the actual "extreme roulette" would be devoid of 'experienced' activity, unless there was something tied to it. That is why I made a quick suggestion of moving the mount to that hypothetical roulette. Completely logical. This is not a punishment, but an encouragement.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I've mentioned before that I would prefer there be a "Fill Roulette" that has pretty much everything or actually everything on it that becomes accessible to people as they finish expansions. Delete mentor and put the mount on that.

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Deleting mentor is most definitely the best solution available. I can get behind that.

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

seems to me mentor is just an excuse to get into beginner chat which like the barrens chat of this game

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At this stage the whole mentor/spout program have go astray

Novice channel become a global chat room that usually turn into exchanges of insults of different political views. Those have genuine questions or seeking guidance usually got bury

EX roulette is a gamble sometimes spouts not wanting to learn or refuse to listen, sometimes you have mentor jump ship before the duty start

Remove the mount and the novice chat room will probably result in dramatic drop of mentors. Which might be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

At this stage the whole mentor/spout program have go astray

Novice channel become a global chat room that usually turn into exchanges of insults of different political views. Those have genuine questions or seeking guidance usually got bury

EX roulette is a gamble sometimes spouts not wanting to learn or refuse to listen, sometimes you have mentor jump ship before the duty start

Remove the mount and the novice chat room will probably result in dramatic drop of mentors. Which might be a good thing.

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Hmmm lich is different sure we have our chat but its the off topic chat that gets dropped as soon as someone asks a question, as for que well i cant do it since missing some.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I think you're too focused on punishing people. There's nothing wrong with going for a reward.

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Exactly. I don't get the mentality of "Mentors have to suffer to get the mount." It just sounds so sadistic and full of pettiness and spite. Why are people so fixated on this particular reward and want to make it hell for people to get? As long as mentors (i) fill the queues, (ii) offer advice (not teach, because others need to make an effort too) about gameplay or mechanics, (iii) are polite and respectful, and (iv) don't jump ship when they get something they don't like (other than Ex trials after a few tries because I can see why they'd wanna bail in this case, though I don't condone this myself), then I'd say they're doing their "job" and deserve to be rewarded for it. Now whether the mentor gets an instance as easy as a guildhest or some high-end content is really up to luck and not the mentor's fault ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

If you wanna remove the reward altogether, lemme ask you: Why are you so adamant on this? What's so wrong with doing content and getting rewarded for it? This is no different from any other reward we have in the game. Also, the only thing that might happen from removing Ex trials from the roulette is that the mount will be more accessible and will thus lose its "prestige" value. I personally wouldn't care about this. I only went after the mount because I love horses and wanted a 2-seater horse to use when I'm with the person I play the game with. I have 0 interest in the mount's prestige and don't care if it loses it.

The way I see it, people who say that Ex trials are the only thing that makes mentors worth their salt seem to ignore all other aspects of being a mentor and to also absolve other players of their responsibility by dumping everything on the mentors. I've gotten tired of repeating this but here we go: Mentors help--they don't carry. People are always quick to turn on mentors and rip them to shreds, but they don't seem to put nearly as much focus on (i) players who do a crappy job at playing their classes because they couldn't be bothered to read their tooltips or look up a guide, (ii) players who are bad at the game and still don't accept advice, or (iii) those who don't look up guides when doing Ex trials in DF or don't follow instructions when they're given in the instance.

Mentors also suffer abuse by the playerbase and go through some horrors in Mentor Roulette but who cares about that, am I right? -.-

Lmao look at all the haters hating on Mentors just because a few of them suck. This is what happens when you take a pixelated icon too seriously. I earned my crown kiddo, not gonna give it up.

There shouldn't be any rewards for being a mentor.

I think people are missing a simple matter here. If the role Mentor is removed than all rewards tied to it HAVE to go somewhere. SE wouldn't just drop it nor take it away from people who already have it. I don't think the Mentor system should be a thing especially with how the game presently is structured because the only thing that gives any inference as to what a Mentor is supposed to do is the text blerb upon picking it up which is very vague and open to interpretation.

I'm never surprised when I hear stories about Mentors bailing on Extremes. They suck if you weren't really planning on doing them. As far as I'm concerned Extremes are just raids with a different name. Why then to be a Mentor does someone HAVE to also be a raider? I'd much rather direct people who want to raid toward resources to help them achieve that which I do very frequently.

If you want to talk about making the Mentor system into a better system then lets talk about that. But if you just want to bash someone for using a system then I have no respect for you. I don't care that the Mentor in this discussion was doing dumb shit to get out. They shouldn't have been put in that situation to begin with. Systems encourage behavior. Putting a nice reward does not just suddenly make people bite a bullet and do what they don't want; MSQ is a perfect example of that. Nice reward to que into it even though it sucks. Yet there are still various ways to "ruin" the experience for people in there just to make it go by faster. And any time those threads pop up people tell the complainer to shove it. The only difference is a stupid crown that people put WAY too much expectation on.

I still stand by there shouldn't have been any rewards for being a mentor; the reward should be the pleasant feeling you get after seeing a party full of sprouts overcome that extreme trial; or seeing a grateful sprout for the advice you've given them. Honestly, mentorship shouldn't have existed in the first place. I go out of my way to help people in game, if they're struggling and occasionally I queue for EX trials in duty Finder just for the heck of it and wind up teaching the sprouts mechanics after the mentor bails.. and we clear all the time.

It's just a matter of people who are in the system for mentors; they go for the reward of the mount and nothing else. Yes, there are sprouts who don't learn and are generally unpleasant, but the majority of sprouts do want to learn and are willing to listen if you actually don't act like a jerk and bail or yell at them then leave. And a lot of people are still are the free trial; meaning they can't use the Party Finder system, thus blocking them from even joining Party Finders for extreme trials, so that advice isn't really advice for those on free trial.

And if people bail because they got something they don't like in roulette.. which you're accepting that you'll get any duty in the game when you go in; don't bail. If you feel like you're going to waste your time which you don't want to do; don't do Mentor roulette.

And again; like I said before, all it takes is one bad apple to ruin the bunch. That is human nature, and the only reason why a lot of the good mentors are experiencing a lot of backlash nowadays is because of the bad ones. It's why I think the NN and mentorship in general should be moderated, if not straight out removed from the game.

I think this is the problem here. The mindset that having to do an extreme is a "punishment".

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I'm never surprised when I hear stories about Mentors bailing on Extremes. They suck if you weren't really planning on doing them. As far as I'm concerned Extremes are just raids with a different name. Why then to be a Mentor does someone HAVE to also be a raider? I'd much rather direct people who want to raid toward resources to help them achieve that which I do very frequently.

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If a "mentor" isn't willing to do an extreme, here's what they can do: not queue for mentor roulette! For that matter, a mentor has to clear quite a number of raids to even unlock the mentor roulette, why do you think that is?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think this is the problem here. The mindset that having to do an extreme is a "punishment".

If a "mentor" isn't willing to do an extreme, here's what they can do: not queue for mentor roulette! For that matter, a mentor has to clear quite a number of raids to even unlock the mentor roulette, why do you think that is?

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You have to clear Extremes because they are on the Mentor roulette. Much like clearing Paglth'an to have access to Expert Roulette. This isn't complicated. Whatever is on the Roulette you have to clear prior. The issue I see is that Savages are not on the Mentor Roulette. Tell me why is there a distinction between Extremes and Savages? If they were both on there then I truly would just give up on Mentor Roulette all together. But having one and not the other shows an inconsistency in the content selection of the Roulette. I like being a Mentor. By that I mean I enjoy helping new players learn the game and get through content. I do not enjoy Extremes or Savages. I'm not a raider. By having Extremes on the Roulette I'm being told that in order to be a Mentor I must also be a raider, but there are no savages so there seems to be a distinction. Why? Are Savages too hard? Some Extremes are harder? Is it that they are side content? So are Extremes. If SE were to separate Extremes into their own roulette (they might also include savages) and put some cool rewards behind that, then I wouldn't care.

My issue is people thinking that the fancy mount HAS to come from running Extremes. Quite frankly I didn't even know the mount existed for about a year after becoming a Mentor. I just wanted to help people and got harassed just for having the stupid symbol above my head. Literally without doing or saying anything. I want the status gone because I want the expectation gone. And being expected to do Extremes or worse carry a group of randos through an Extreme just because they qued for it, is not something I agree with. I barely run the stupid roulette anymore because of this issue. I would run it all day if they were removed. Not for the mount, but just because I find it fun sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I just wanted to help people and got harassed just for having the stupid symbol above my head. Literally without doing or saying anything.

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Wear it with pride; if you are a good player you deserved it.

Mentorship is earned my friends. Now you can raise the bar to the most ridicolous standards, however, you will still find plenty of people willing to go that far. Is that something you want? Does it actually make you happy to not see a Burger King crown anymore? Look within yourself and you will find the reasons you hate it.

Yes, the current Mentor system is anything but sophisticated in design, especially the joke that are the NN's. I stay away from that place as far as I can, despite being a Mentor myself. However, what gives you the damn right to judge me based on a damn png. icon inside a game? Do you know me? Who I am? No of you course you don't! But if your reasons for disliking anyone with a Mentor crown are anything but their personality, you are the problem. It's your insecurity and expectations that lead to your own disappointment. You are the problem.

In a perfect world, every Mentor is a helpful person giving advice to sprouts and newcomers alike, but that's not the case and it will never be. The only way that would work is by strictly enforcing a type of ToS directly tied to Mentorship, and therefore it being revoked, but what I see is for the most part.. is nothing but unsolicited envy gushing out of players that understand the ways off until they can apply for Mentorship.
In my early days I had to suffer so much at the hands of Mentors you can't believe it, but my motivation for becoming one was simple; to be a better player, or should I say Mentor. Now you want this privilege gone because of a few bad apples that are toxifying our name. However when it's sprouts or any other player there's no stigma attached to those personalities, because mediocrity is the default of everything as can be seen by players not even knowing how to play their job properly!

And when it's gone, it will only take a couple of months until there's another dissatisfaction. What could it be, I wonder? Oh yes! The title "Perfect Legend". It's unfair! I want it too! And lower the EXP for other players because it's unfair how fast they level any job too! You see where this rabbit hole goes. This demographic of people will never stop complaining until everyone is so equal and only when it suits them. Becoming a Mentor is not that hard, but being a better player and showing respect to others is harder.

As for the rewards in Mentor roulette, why not? Does it bother you so much that someone is compensated for helping and aiding others? I really don't understand this immature mentality. It's a game, get real.

This can't be serious.. envy?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/10JhviFuU2gWD6/giphy.gif

I was once a mentor, and I can still become a mentor at anytime I wanted. I choose to not be associated with this system, or the expectations of being one. So that "point" is moot. My criticisms are of the system as a whole, and the flaws I see with it. If a player signs up to be a mentor, they should either meet those expectations, or lose it, in my opinion. No one has forced them to be one. By wearing that crown, a player has taken on the responsibility of being a mentor, and if that means they have to do extremes? So be it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

This can't be serious.. envy?

I was once a mentor, and I can still become a mentor at anytime I wanted. I choose to not be associated with this system, or the expectations of being one. So that "point" is moot. My criticisms are of the system as a whole, and the flaws I see with it. If a player signs up to be a mentor, they should either meet those expectations, or lose it, in my opinion. No one has forced them to be one. By wearing that crown, a player has taken on the responsibility of being a mentor, and if that means they have to do extremes? So be it.

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For someone who has gripes against the system you sure do display your gripes against people a lot. From my understanding though you want the expectations to be higher whereas I want the expectations lower. Like I said earlier. Lets talk about the system as a system and not about the people.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

This can't be serious.. envy?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/10JhviFuU2gWD6/giphy.gif

I was once a mentor, and I can still become a mentor at anytime I wanted. I choose to not be associated with this system, or the expectations of being one. So that "point" is moot. My criticisms are of the system as a whole, and the flaws I see with it. If a player signs up to be a mentor, they should either meet those expectations, or lose it, in my opinion. No one has forced them to be one. By wearing that crown, a player has taken on the responsibility of being a mentor, and if that means they have to do extremes? So be it.

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And my responsibilites are working and playing the game whenever I can. I owe you absolutely nothing, players should be thankful I even give them any advice given how rude people respond to this "responsibility" you talk about. Laugh all you want, it's the first time in ever I see this type of hostility coming from people that don't even play the game well, but want to make general statements on a demographic being assigned to Mentorship inside a game.

Point is, they need to find a decent rework that actually makes sure mentors meet a monthly amount of expectations; like player commendations, for instance. But I won't take off my crown I worked so hard for because some people whine all day on these forums because they can't be *rsed to put any effort inside this game.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

For someone who has gripes against the system you sure do display your gripes against people a lot. From my understanding though you want the expectations to be higher whereas I want the expectations lower. Like I said earlier. Lets talk about the system as a system and not about the people.

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No, I want the expectations to be exactly as they are written. No more, no less. It is a requirement to clear a large variety of content - including extremes - to even access the mentor roulette. This is, presumably, so mentors who are doing the roulette have prior experience of whatever the roulette puts them in. A mentor who DCs to avoid the in-game punishment for leaving, is not the behavior of someone who is acting as an "exemplar for player etiquette". As I stated before, nobody forced them to become a mentor, nobody forced them to queue for the mentor roulette, and if they don't want to do an extreme - which is included in the roulette- they can either not queue for it, or LEAVE it. I have talked about what I think are the flaws in the system already, many, many times over. The reward needs to be removed from mentor roulette specifically, as you get players who are queuing for it specifically to get clears for achievement progress, rather than to perform their role as mentor, and it would need a large amount of oversight by SE to actually function as intended, in my opinion.

Moving extremes to their own roulette wouldn't fix this issue at all, as new players who are queuing for extremes via the duty finder will simply find a dead queue that nobody aside from them is doing, and all just so some mentors can avoid it, because they might think it's an inconvenience. As I stated before, if extremes are removed the mount reward needs to be removed with it, as it's there to encourage players to clear the roulette whether it was an extreme or not.

Mentors shouldn't be doing any dungeons, trials or raids with sprouts period. Telling someone the mechanics of any battle is revealing spoilers and ruining the discovery and exploration of the game for any new player, which imo should not be allowed.

Not only that the bad mentors have tarnished the program from day one. Finding those cracks and holes in the program to take advantage of it without moderation by any senior official or without consequences was and still is a ticking time bomb. Unless the program and it's incentives are reworked by SE, this is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Arazehl

Mentors shouldn't be doing any dungeons, trials or raids with sprouts period. Telling someone the mechanics of any battle is revealing spoilers and ruining the discovery and exploration of the game for any new player, which imo should not be allowed.

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Welp, guess I better stop doing any roulettes at all then! I keep my mouth shut most of the time, but that probably doesn't matter much. Being a mentor in this situation is clearly all that matters. :rolleyes: Just ignore the fact that there's many people who aren't mentors that are just as capable of spoiling anything at all, which probably accounts for most of this "problem" you think there is. If anything, mentors have largely been beaten into submission and will only speak up when asked to do so.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Welp, guess I better stop doing any roulettes at all then! I keep my mouth shut most of the time, but that probably doesn't matter much. Being a mentor in this situation is clearly all that matters. :rolleyes:

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Nope, I've suggested players don't give unsolicited advice in general. I don't give advice unless asked specifically either.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

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That's all interpretation. "Examplar of player etiquette" can mean whatever you want it to mean. Some people want dungeons to be harder and anyone who thinks otherwise is therefor stupid and bad and shouldn't play, are they an examplar? Probably not, but that person can become a mentor and go with the mindset that their perception meets that description. I personally find that Extremes and Savages are better dealt with when a group comes together collectively acknowledging how they want to engage with the content which you fundamentally cannot do with a que. In a que you can get people that just want the clear so unsync is fine with them if they are informed, people who want a blind run, people who want to troll, people who want you to guide them, and people who came in watching a guide. You have no way for controlling for any of that in a que. Which is why I suggest to people resources to use for them to engage with the content the way they want and not go pissing people off by getting stuck with them.

To me an "examplar" is someone who helps people reach the content they want to do, but not necessarily do that content with them. I will gladly help people find guides, discords, statics, etc for doing harder content, but I don't want to actually do that content.

I've also seen suggestions that the mentor roulette is nothing more than "fill this missing spot with an experienced warm body" and quite frankly I think that is exactly what the mentor roulette should be. Just call it "Fill Roulette" or something similar and not attach this status to it. We don't NEED the status of mentor in this game and if we want to keep it then we need other systems to support it. Some have suggested modifying the commendation system or putting in monthly requirements. Others think that mentors need to be punished into falling in line with whatever the role is supposed to be. The only thing people can agree on is that it sucks.

Additionally there's the "rewards" such as the mount and the crown. These rewards really shouldn't leave the game but putting them under a separate, perhaps similar system is where they should go. Heck if we have little symbols next to our names then why not make that a wholly separate thing in itself with the crown simply being a member of that system? Some people want status symbols in the game to lord over others and some want the existence of bragging to be taken away. Those two ideas cannot agree.

TLDR: SE made a bad system and we should collectively try to get them to make a better one and all suffer forever because they likely never will.

*Puts Mentor crown on and finds 7 sprouts*
*Tells sprouts to poke a giant murder hornet nest with sticks*
*Watches 6 sprouts run off and poke murder hornet nest with sticks and get stung all to hell before coming back*
*Looks at the 1 sprout that didn't poke the nest*

Ok now that I know who the smart one is, what did the rest of you learn? :P

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Originally Posted by Xirean

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I think it's pretty black and white actually. A player who queues for a roulette and then immediately DCs to avoid any in-game punishment is NOT an "exemplar of player etiquette", and no, I do not think they are required to do it if they don't want to. This is what the leave button is for, or they can just not queue for mentor roulette entirely.

The mentor roulette is more than just "fill this missing spot", in my opinion. The mentor crown is turned on specifically, which tells me that any new player seeing this icon (in a perfect world) would see this mentor as someone who they can ask assistance of, which is also why mentors get extra exp (if I recall) for being grouped with new adventurers. Players can thank the prevalence of "mentors" who aren't acting as one, for the way the community sees them nowadays.

Why go after mentors in the first place? If your problems lie within the system itself, it makes absolute sense to critcise the system instead of the player. The people who have a problem with mentors are for the most part inexperienced and take their frustrations out on those they believe are responsible for them in the first place. Advice can only go so far, and there is a certain threshold of burden going hand in hand with your own performance as a player.

What do you do? Give advice to a spoiled brat with zero regards for you as a person, a player. Or to the ones asking kindly? I think the larger demographic hints towards the first, given how much vitriol you find perpetuated against mentors recently. The ones that have decided to dedicate themselves in helping other people. Judging by the posts in this thread you'd think this is a full-time responsiblity and there's little place for your own enjoyment. Seems narcissistic to me.

What you will find here are people virtue-signalling for brownie points and fishing for likes, because anything is more productive than being the better example of taking up the mantle of Mentorship and doing the hard, albeit required work of restoring the balance of trust within the playerbase. Why are you guys not creating FC's and Linkshells among a multitde of ways to help other people like I did? Because it's easer to cry like a baby than deal with the almost psychotic hate you get by simply existing as a mentor. And if you do help, why can you not afford the necessary levels of empathy when someone in your community gets harassed for absolutely nothing?

There was a girl I helped the other day. She got harassed in PF because people visibly hated her performance. Almost quit the game actually. I helped her, taught her the rotation for MCH to the best of my knowledge, bought Materia out of my own pockets, trying to calm her down, despite being stressed with a real life job. I could have said no of course, but they mattered to me, and the only reason I bring this up here is because all the assumptions against mentors are for the most part, based on the crown and not the personality associated with them, that's what I believe.

Again, asking for a rework in itself is not a problem. But when people get harassed for a few, that's when the alarm should be ringing. All of this seems like a witch hunt to me if anything really.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Welp, guess I better stop doing any roulettes at all then! I keep my mouth shut most of the time, but that probably doesn't matter much. Being a mentor in this situation is clearly all that matters. :rolleyes: Just ignore the fact that there's many people who aren't mentors that are just as capable of spoiling anything at all, which probably accounts for most of this "problem" you think there is. If anything, mentors have largely been beaten into submission and will only speak up when asked to do so.

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Being a player is not a "program" for other players. What they reveal to another player is up to them and the other person, as being consensual. Yet this is a program put in place by the devs of this game, which in their case would never reveal or spoil the game in the same way for it's players. It should hold true for the mentor program as well. And yes you (if a mentor) and the program as a whole should be reworked and exclude the practice of step by step instructions of the mechanics of any battle. Leave it for the new player to discover on their own. Rather you should direct them to where they can begin to find those answers, without sending them to a third party website. They're smart they can do that on their own. I know this because we did it way before their ever was a mentor program. We found the discovery fun. You doing roulettes just as a player is irrelevant, but as mentor doing a mentor roulette with a sprout to reveal game play mechanics is again taking away from them the exploration of the game. More hurting than helping.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think it's pretty black and white actually. A player who queues for a roulette and then immediately DCs to avoid any in-game punishment is NOT an "exemplar of player etiquette", and no, I do not think they are required to do it if they don't want to. This is what the leave button is for, or they can just not queue for mentor roulette entirely.

The mentor roulette is more than just "fill this missing spot", in my opinion. The mentor crown is turned on specifically, which tells me that any new player seeing this icon (in a perfect world) would see this mentor as someone who they can ask assistance of, which is also why mentors get extra exp (if I recall) for being grouped with new adventurers. Players can thank the prevalence of "mentors" who aren't acting as one, for the way the community sees them nowadays.

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I don't think someone purposefully DCing is an Examplar either. But they play the game and pay a sub like anyone else so their opinion is just as valid. I don't think them doing what some consider rude to change that. A lot of people don't want there to be a penalty for leaving in any game. I've felt like I'm being held captive in an instance on more than one occasion in this game and others. Yes there is the leave button, but why should someone be penalized for trying to get away from what they perceive to be a toxic situation? The system has no way for detecting this which is another flaw within it. I don't think trying to get around that makes someone a bad person. Since getting rid of the penalty is probably not the best idea I prefer changing up the content selection in roulettes. "Oh people leave this a lot? Maybe we should remove this instance from this Roulette and put it somewhere else?"

Saying "just don't que" is the easy answer and one that does not satisfy me just like the "fill this missing spot" perspective does not satisfy you. Ultimately this comes down to which is more important the status/expectation or getting clears and not upsetting people? I lean towards the latter as I don't expect people to rise to the occasion; therefore I don't ask them to.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

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I just wanted to say that I agree with everything you said. Also, people who keep bashing mentors, say that the mount should be removed, and/or suggest not queuing for the Mentor Roulette if you don't want to do extremes are pointless to argue with. I know this from experience since they've been saying the exact same thing in every single post about this matter and never once changed their views or listened no matter what arguments/logic/explanations/etc. people gave them.

You want the reward removed? Fine with me. I'd definitely run the Mentor Roulette a lot more if it didn't have Ex trials, and I'd certainly do that without the reward being involved. And if I want to help people with Ex trials, I'll hop into PF like I usually do.