Yoshida on "carrying" other people

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I had a player in Castrum Lacus Litore last night who hadn't done a single class quest past 30 and was exclusively spamming Rage of Halone, all the while dealing less damage than the NPCs that accompany the raid.

Until they decide to create content in the leveling experience that actually holds players to a higher standard, tuning content to where dead weight cannot be carried would only make it infinitely more frustrating unfortunately. I'd honestly rather my Nier Raid be a 30 minute snooze fest than a 3 hour wipefest for irrelevant garbage loot.

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What in the world??

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Now that particular part makes no sense. Consider how much longer DR takes when only half of the raid uses their essences. Now what, exactly, would be the difference between 50% (2 of 4) and 50% (say, 12 of 24) doing so? Scaling off of fewer people just makes the chance per person more pronounced. It's otherwise irrelevant.

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Scaling off of fewer people means 1 person makes a much bigger difference. If you show up with a top 5% effort it's like queuing for DR with an elite 6 player premade; even if the rest of the raid doesn't essence at all you'll still have a decent run because you alone can actually to some extent carry a group. Whereas if you show up to a 24 man DR with top 5% effort you won't make nearly as much of a difference.

Now if everyone in a 4man group shows up with nothing then none of them will have any room to complain about how long it takes.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

New gear to increase power is worthless without effort to make use of that gear.

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FF14 without a doubt proves that gear does not need to be the only carrot you chase at end game. I wish other MMO devs would understand this.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

The point being those players are deadweight no matter their ilvl.

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Sure. Got it. You must be one of THOSE players. Have a nice time in Party Finder.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I had a player in Castrum Lacus Litore last night who hadn't done a single class quest past 30 and was exclusively spamming Rage of Halone, all the while dealing less damage than the NPCs that accompany the raid.

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If this did indeed happen...good lord. That's a surprising but also unsurprising new low.

Keep carrying the wasted slots or Yoshi WILL nerf the content you love, or what is left of it.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I had a player in Castrum Lacus Litore last night who hadn't done a single class quest past 30 and was exclusively spamming Rage of Halone, all the while dealing less damage than the NPCs that accompany the raid.

Until they decide to create content in the leveling experience that actually holds players to a higher standard, tuning content to where dead weight cannot be carried would only make it infinitely more frustrating unfortunately. I'd honestly rather my Nier Raid be a 30 minute snooze fest than a 3 hour wipefest for irrelevant garbage loot.

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Is it really worth holding any and all content that'd be worth a damn, intrinsically, hostage to long-overdue checks for basic player readiness?

I see, for instance, no problem with requiring that one have all their job quests complete or their job's (not counting BLU) skills learned before doing that expansion's level-cap content (all 1-70 skill learned to do Stormblood endgame, 1-80 for Shadowbringers, etc.).

Nor do I see any problem with requiring at least a short, better-tuned SSS-equivalent (keeping in mind that some of them are weirdly stringent at present) -- or, ideally, a far more contextualized proving ground for the latest expansion's serious content (if not already completed during a previous then-latest expansion).

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I agree that DF alliance raids should just be easy. Throwing 24 random people together and making it "punishing" in ANY way is just going to be dumb and frustrating. That should be the relaxing, idgaf content where as long as people are moving in the correct direction and pressing a few buttons everything's gonna work out fine.

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That's how we end up with boring nier raids instead of really great fun alliance raids like orbonne monastery. Just because they're casual content doesn't mean you cant put in interesting mechanics that punish the group for failing.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

Keep carrying the wasted slots or Yoshi WILL nerf the content you love, or what is left of it.

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Yoshi will nerf the content even if we do carry the bads. See: Their butchering of orbonne monastery.

I'm still mad.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

That's how we end up with boring nier raids instead of really great fun alliance raids like orbonne monastery. Just because they're casual content doesn't mean you cant put in interesting mechanics that punish the group for failing.

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^

Similarly, though, nor does failing mechanic have to immediately equate to death, as per knock-offs or 999,999 damage nukes to be walled off, for the mechanic itself to be engaging. Actionable challenge and broadly defined "difficulty" are not the same thing. Something can be immensely punishing, yet dully shallow, or deep, complex, and engaging yet not particular "difficult" due simply to how well the mechanics were situated.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

That's how we end up with boring nier raids instead of really great fun alliance raids like orbonne monastery. Just because they're casual content doesn't mean you cant put in interesting mechanics that punish the group for failing.

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What you don't like middle side, side middle, middle middle , side side mechanics repeated 20 times?

These are some things that can encourage peope to use basic gameplay for all roles.
-more unavoidable damage
-more tank centric boss abilities
-soft enrages
-light dps and healing checks

None of this has too be savage level, just more of are you doing basic gameplay. If not then this fight is going to take longer or go up a notch in difficutly briefly..

Perhaps the creators and producers and developers of this game don't see players as 'deadweight'? Perhaps the more people who can engage in story-line content means more money in subscriptions? Savage and Extremes aren't aimed at those more-or-less average players who just can't seem to meet the standards of those who complain loudest about 'deadweight'.

I always look at how uncompromising Wildstar was in its attitude of 'git gud', and see how that worked for them in the particularly short run of that game.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Perhaps the creators and producers and developers of this game don't see players as 'deadweight'? Perhaps the more people who can engage in story-line content means more money in subscriptions? Savage and Extremes aren't aimed at those more-or-less average players who just can't seem to meet the standards of those who complain loudest about 'deadweight'.

I always look at how uncompromising Wildstar was in its attitude of 'git gud', and see how that worked for them in the particularly short run of that game.

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You've gotta draw the line *somewhere* between "We'll do and be anything to get more money" and "This is FFXIV, an MMO, which requires team play to succeed in." Taking your own logic, why have mechanics at all? That's too much challenge, we want everyone to play the game so square makes more money, why would we want mechanics? Make every boss in the game stand in place auto-attacking the tank while everyone just bashes on the striking dummy for a couple minutes.

Now you've got total accessibility for all. That's perfect, right?

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

You've gotta draw the line *somewhere* between "We'll do and be anything to get more money" and "This is FFXIV, an MMO, which requires team play to succeed in." Taking your own logic, why have mechanics at all? That's too much challenge, we want everyone to play the game so square makes more money, why would we want mechanics? Make every boss in the game stand in place auto-attacking the tank while everyone just bashes on the striking dummy for a couple minutes.

Now you've got total accessibility for all. That's perfect, right?

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Accessibility is the point of DF, especially when it comes to alliance raids. If you're going to throw 24 people together at complete random then you have anticipate the fact that they are NOT going to be able to get on the same page efficiently. The long and difficult alliance raids aren't ANY fun using DF; they're just wasted hours of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Leave the challenging content for smaller groups; that's where it shines.

So yes, total accessibility for all should be the goal of DF Alliance raids. Zerg content is supposed to be the easy crap everyone gets to participate in no matter what. FFXIV trying to go against the grain on that isn't working; every DF alliance raid they have that isn't easy is just annoying crap.

I wish their battle team wasn't as stretched thin as they say. Perhaps then it would be more possible for them to create content of more variety, and for more varieties of players, instead of just catering to a large portion of players who choose to play at literally a below-average level - a level at which they cannot complete content on their own. Let's not forget that this 48-man content is MAX LEVEL content either.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Accessibility is the point of DF, especially when it comes to alliance raids. If you're going to throw 24 people together at complete random then you have anticipate the fact that they are NOT going to be able to get on the same page efficiently. The long and difficult alliance raids aren't ANY fun using DF; they're just wasted hours of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Leave the challenging content for smaller groups; that's where it shines.

So yes, total accessibility for all should be the goal of DF Alliance raids. Zerg content is supposed to be the easy crap everyone gets to participate in. FFXIV trying to go against the grain on that isn't working; every DF alliance raid they have that isn't easy is just annoying crap.

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So you don't want any challenge at all in 24 mans. Please, I seriously hope the dev team is not listening to advice like this at all.

It would be such a shame to never see a fun alliance raid like orbonne again just because people like you think "3 people on each platform, 2 platforms per alliance" is too much to ask for from the playerbase of this game.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

So you don't want any challenge at all in 24 mans. Please, I seriously hope the dev team is not listening to advice like this at all.

It would be such a shame to never see a fun alliance raid like orbonne again just because people like you think "3 people on each platform, 2 platforms per alliance" is too much to ask for from the playerbase of this game.

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No 'challenge' in a 24 man? That isn't the final objective. Being simple enough for even the most 'deadweight' person (according to what I presume to be top-tier players) to participate - that IS the objective.

To be upset at so-called sub-par players because they dare to attempt that story-mode content, even though that is the objective of the instances, is brought up time after time in these forums.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

No 'challenge' in a 24 man? That isn't the final objective. Being simple enough for even the most 'deadweight' person (according to what I presume to be top-tier players) to participate - that IS the objective.

To be upset at so-called sub-par players because they dare to attempt that story-mode content, even though that is the objective of the instances, is brought up time after time in these forums.

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Well we're playing a game and games are supposed to be fun. It's a lot less fun hitting a striking dummy than it is fighting a boss. Therefore, I want alliance raid enemies to be bosses, not striking dummy.

Here's the million dollar question. Why play a game at all when you clearly would rather watch an anime or read a book? A good game will have some interactivity and challenge to it.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

So you don't want any challenge at all in 24 mans. Please, I seriously hope the dev team is not listening to advice like this at all.

It would be such a shame to never see a fun alliance raid like orbonne again just because people like you think "3 people on each platform, 2 platforms per alliance" is too much to ask for from the playerbase of this game.

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Ultimates sure; have all the challenge you want. DF hell no, make it easy so we can get out of Orbonne in under 2 hours, if we're unlucky enough to get it in AR Roulette. 24 man content, random groups and challenge don't mix.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Ultimates sure; have all the challenge you want. DF hell no, make it easy so we can get out of Orbonne in under 2 hours, if we're unlucky enough to get it in AR Roulette. 24 man content, random groups and challenge don't mix.

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People have been doing orbonne with duty finder just fine for over 2 years at this point and people were doing it before they nerfed it, and they would have continued doing it just fine if they hadn't nerfed it.

This sounds to me like a couple lazy people who just want to drag the fun of the game down with them so they can netflix while getting carried through casual content. Please, this is a team effort. Do your part.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Well we're playing a game and games are supposed to be fun. It's a lot less fun hitting a striking dummy than it is fighting a boss. Therefore, I want alliance raid enemies to be bosses, not striking dummy.

Here's the million dollar question. Why play a game at all when you clearly would rather watch an anime or read a book? A good game will have some interactivity and challenge to it.

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Some of us have more than one hobby. I watch about 2 hours of anime a week, and read every day. I still play FFXIV, although not as heavily as when I was playing WoW - but that's because having nothing to do after a major life change is easily solved by diving headfirst into an MMORPG, and after 10 years of adjusting to the changes, it becomes much easier to make it "one of the things I do for fun" rather than "the only thing I do for fun".

The current challenge for story-mode is fine. The expectation that everyone must give 125% of effort in those instances (even if they aren't capable of doing so) is the major problem.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

If this did indeed happen...good lord. That's a surprising but also unsurprising new low.

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Did I ever tell you the story of the level 76 WHM who didn't have regen?

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

People have been doing orbonne with duty finder just fine for over 2 years at this point and people were doing it before they nerfed it, and they would have continued doing it just fine if they hadn't nerfed it.

This sounds to me like a couple lazy people who just want to drag the fun of the game down with them so they can netflix while getting carried through casual content. Please, this is a team effort. Do your part.

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People have been whining about and hating AR DF for as long as they've been doing it to. It's not fun; it's just a roulette so people feel compelled to do it. The vast majority of people would be happier and have more fun if they could do it faster.

If you find it so fun you want to spend a good chunk of your evening doing it then hit up PF and go in at min ilvl. Most players would simply prefer AR not taking so long they can't get their other roulettes in every time they're unlucky enough to get one of the crappy raids.

I do personally wish they should add a mode to dungeons that increase their skill level.. so like we can enter the dungeon unsync...

why not add enter the dungeon Expert for people who want it, that would make the dungeon alot more scary and challenging .. so it is similar to "savage" but don't make it itself, just add a mode that simulates it for those who want it.

I feel like we can please everyone, by just using "game modes" for example for those like me that want the open world to feel like a struggle for solo-content to challage myself..

add a mode at the home town, that we can turn on and off that will upgread "threat" level of the open world/entire game.

So basically if i up it to "threat 10" everything becomes aggressive and has more "skill required" to kill and level.

For pvpers fans.. add in a "Combat mode" that when turn on allows others to attack, and them attack others with it on. in the open world

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Originally Posted by usernameuwu

Game needs more content where you can play by yourself. Like, there is no way to use your classes without queuing for something.
Also harder 4 man content would be great. Ive done 3 savage raids this expansion and its not easy to keep 8 players together and on the same page all the time.
Extremes are supposed to be the medium between savage and braindead, but even then, a lot of people aren't comfortable pugging extremes without echo.

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I've found that Extremes are best run through Party Finder or by queuing with one or two friends if you use DF. An entire FC group is encouraged, perhaps on a weekly or biweekly basis. Hard 4 man content puts too much pressure on the group, which would have to consist of half of those same 8 players you find it hard to keep together. TI doubt there will ever be the 'speed run' Mythic dungeons in FFXIV - there are other means to gear for Savage raiding in this game.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

People have been whining about and hating AR DF for as long as they've been doing it to. It's not fun; it's just a roulette so people feel compelled to do it. The vast majority of people would be happier and have more fun if they could do it faster.

If you find it so fun you want to spend a good chunk of your evening doing it then hit up PF and go in at min ilvl. Most players would simply prefer AR not taking so long they can't get their other roulettes in every time they're unlucky enough to get one of the crappy raids.

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Those same people STILL complain even though it got nerfed. Those people will always complain until every last duty in the game is trivialized by hundreds of extra ilvl like crystal tower. We absolutely should not be molding the difficulty of the game based on complaints made by people who wont be happy until roulettes just give you the reward without even running the content.

At no point did he mention carrying people in content. He just said 24-person raids were designed to be easy and relaxing. Misleading title.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Those same people STILL complain even though it got nerfed. Those people will always complain until every last duty in the game is trivialized by hundreds of extra ilvl like crystal tower. We absolutely should not be molding the difficulty of the game based on complaints made by people who wont be happy until roulettes just give you the reward without even running the content.

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The point of roulettes is the rewards so of course quicker is better, people aren't running Orbonne for the 100th time because it was so much fun. It being difficult isn't good for the new player either; dying 16 times to mechanics while a group drags your corpse to the finish line isn't exactly an engaging/rewarding story experience.

Like I said, if you want content that's going to take all night you already have options; that's not what roulettes are for, though. It's so new players can get a group for story content that's supposed to be tailored to them.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The point of roulettes is the rewards so of course quicker is better, people aren't running Orbonne for the 100th time because it was so much fun. It being difficult isn't good for the new player either; dying 16 times to mechanics while a group drags your corpse to the finish line isn't exactly an engaging/rewarding story experience.

Like I said, if you want content that's going to take all night you already have options; that's not what roulettes are for, though. It's so new players can get a group for story content that's supposed to be tailored to them.

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No, the point of roulettes is so that people actually have the ability to get parties together through duty finder matchmaking. Square does not give one care about your rewards nor should they because roulettes are for the benefit of first-timers not for vets.

Once again lazy vets want to take enjoyment from first timers for their own personal benefit. The people roulettes are designed for are running the content to experience the content, and your obsession with trivializing them for speed's sake is the opposite of what roulettes were designed for.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

No, the point of roulettes is so that people actually have the ability to get parties together through duty finder matchmaking. Square does not give one care about your rewards nor should they because roulettes are for the benefit of first-timers not for vets.

Once again lazy vets want to take enjoyment from first timers for their own personal benefit. The people roulettes are designed for are running the content to experience the content, and your obsession with trivializing them for speed's sake is the opposite of what roulettes were designed for.

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No, you just want this content tailored to you instead of being tailored to what would be fun for a new player. Do you honestly think new players enjoy spending 60% of their big epic story confrontation dead just so you'll feel like the content was engaging for your skill level? Roulettes are for first timers to get groups; and the rewards exist to get vets to continue running old story content that they're SICK OF. Making it last longer isn't helping anyone.

Like I said multiple times now, if you want this crap to take forever make your own group and go do ultimates or self-impose restrictions on normal. Most people don't want to be doing Orbonne all evening, though.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

No, you just want this content tailored to you instead of being tailored to what would be fun for a new player. Do you honestly think new players enjoy spending 60% of their big epic story confrontation dead just so you'll feel like the content was engaging for your skill level? Roulettes are for first timers to get groups; and the rewards exist to get vets to continue running old story content that they're SICK OF. Making it last longer isn't helping anyone.

Like I said multiple times now, if you want this crap to take forever make your own group and go do ultimates or self-impose restrictions on normal. Most people don't want to be doing Orbonne all evening, though.

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Who put you in charge of deciding what first-timers want? Lots of people are going to be driven away if the game continues to have this reputation of being way too easy and coddling people who want everything handed to them with no effort.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

I think this is something that often gets clouded over by overuse of certain buzz words. But there's a big difference between lesser skilled but actually trying. And blatant laziness or the you don't pay my sub mentality.

The problem arises essentially when players don't even try.. to play at even a basicly competent level and expect everyone else to carry them.

Again there's a big difference between carrying someone who's actually trying. And carrying someone who isn't.

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Oh, I agree that there's a difference. However, the effect on having less personal responsibility blurs the lines between the two.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

So, "Take your leeches and be glad for them, or lose enjoyably tuned content." Guess that's fair. /s

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I don't know about fair or not, but people who want more "accountability" have them in Extreme/Savage/Ultimate contents. That is why I've always said kicking is a fine solution, especially in more difficult contents. But certain leniency might be appropriate for current Normal/Hard contents.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I don't think you can just glitch over the bold text either because he is talking about 24 and 48 man raids, not light party content. If I remember right, in other interview he discussion more difficult 4 player content and that the development team find it limiting in the stuff they can add to it. Basically a "Savage" Dungeon would really just be an increase in monster HP and Stats.

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Indeed he is talking about alliance raid in this interview. I'm making the connection on what he said about "personal responsibility" with what he said about making difficult light party content. He said in this interview that the party size of alliance raids makes it easier. Therefore, a light party content would not have that luxury.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

The fact that you equate "lower[ing] the amount of personal responsibility" and "players who aren't as skilled at battle content" with "carrying" is very telling.

There are countless levels of performance in the game, but you sure wouldn't know it from reading the forums, where everyone is either a perfect execution god who never presses the wrong button in a rotation, or they're a leech who just stays on the ground for an entire fight.

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Well, that's the thing. "Carrying," like other words, are subjectively used. Regardless of whether it's because people are not as skilled or as knowledgeable of the fight or any other reason, the result is the same: that some people will have to compensate for others.

If you want to use another word for it, feel free.

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Also, nothing he said has anything to do with adding any other type of content to the game, just that alliance raids will continue to exist.

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If you read again what I said, I'm making the connection with what he is saying here with what he's said in the past.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Again I imagine the intention is the better players guide the less experienced, help them through and they appreciate it and learn from the experience. One reason we have a Mentor system too. NA/EU has taken that as "I play Ice mage and afk and the tryhards can carry me, whatever".

Our way of looking at it is rather toxic, because there's literally nothing in it for the ones carrying except punishment. You learn your class, gear up, practice the fight, do your best and are the reason a run goes smoothly and your "reward" is usually to be looked down on as an "elitist tryhard" and lose out on content you'd enjoy, such as Mythic 4 mans, or watch tanks and healers become gutted, because the community just isn't bothered to try or learn.

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Oh, I agree that it is well intended and the idea is simply about accessibility. That said, while it is not a personal complaint of mine, other people have complained about having to "carry" others that they feel are not putting in the effort. Regardless of whether they're right or not, Yoshida's statement here and the resulting difficulty level of the content still effectively means that "carrying" other people is an expected result. That is just how the content is designed.

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Originally Posted by TroySoFab

At no point did he mention carrying people in content. He just said 24-person raids were designed to be easy and relaxing. Misleading title.

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I simply used a word that people have used as a complaint as the effect is the same.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Who put you in charge of deciding what first-timers want? Lots of people are going to be driven away if the game continues to have this reputation of being way too easy and coddling people who want everything handed to them with no effort.

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Right, because this game is clearly struggling to maintain a solid player-base with that reputation, while hardcore MMO's like Wildstar are the blockbusters. Where did you get the impression that new players enjoy being dead for the majority of these pertinent story battles? New players get to die every 2 minutes to mechanics they don't understand, while groups wipe and bicker because everyone is so profoundly unhappy running this drawn out crap.

It's really not hard to piece together that new players would probably enjoy a smooth, quick run that they actually get to participate in.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Right, because this game is clearly struggling to maintain a solid player-base with that reputation, while hardcore MMO's like Wildstar are the blockbusters. Where did you get the impression that new players enjoy being dead for the majority of these pertinent story battles? New players get to die every 2 minutes to mechanics they don't understand, while groups wipe and bicker because everyone is so profoundly unhappy running this drawn out crap.

It's really not hard to piece together that new players would probably enjoy a smooth, quick run that they actually get to participate in.

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Well if you find yourself dead all the time your first time through casual content then that's a you problem. This stuff isn't even hard. Press your buttons, move out of the bad. It's that simple even you can do it.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's really not hard to piece together that new players would probably enjoy a smooth, quick run that they actually get to participate in.

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I do must repeat what I said at the OP:

I think they have tuned the difficulty well for the most parts. There should still be wipes for contents that are called raids, at least in the beginning, and even dungeons can be dangerous from time to time.

I do not think anyone (new or not) wants the current form of MS Roulette or Cape Westwind to be the norm for even "casual" contents.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Well if you find yourself dead all the time your first time through casual content then that's a you problem. This stuff isn't even hard. Press your buttons, move out of the bad. It's that simple even you can do it.

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lol, well it looks like you've run out of arguments and have resorted to passive aggressive nonsense; god that's a common trend on this forum.

If it's not even hard right now then who cares if we streamline it more so new players can have a faster, more pleasant experience? Are you really so bored you need to drag this "already easy" crap out just to fill your night, and drag the rest of us through it with you?

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

lol, well it looks like you've run out of arguments and have resorted to passive aggressive nonsense; god that's a common trend on this forum.

If it's not even hard right now then who cares if we streamline it more so new players can have a faster, more pleasant experience? Are you really so bored you need to drag this "already easy" crap out just to fill your night, and drag the rest of us down with you?

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There's no common ground to be found at all here so yeah I'm pretty much done trying with you. I recommend doing the right thing and putting a legitimate team effort into team content.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

There's no common ground to be found at all here so yeah I'm pretty much done trying with you. I recommend doing the right thing and putting a legitimate team effort into team content.

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It's STORY content designed for NEW PLAYERS. I get that for some reason you want it to be a massively tedious mess that takes forever, but you can't seriously believe that's what new players would enjoy. Hell, most of the veteran players who do roulettes don't enjoy it; a lot of people just eat the abandon penalty outright when they see it's a raid like Orbonne.

What you enjoy and what's actually good for the game are 2 COMPLETELY different things. Just try to remember that.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Indeed he is talking about alliance raid in this interview. I'm making the connection on what he said about "personal responsibility" with what he said about making difficult light party content. He said in this interview that the party size of alliance raids makes it easier. Therefore, a light party content would not have that luxury.


If you read again what I said, I'm making the connection with what he is saying here with what he's said in the past.

I simply used a word that people have used as a complaint as the effect is the same.

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Except its not. It seems like you are making an apples and oranges comparison here. Alliance raid and a hypothetical Savage dungeon. The entire point of alliance raid is for it to be easy, and for individual performance to not mean so much. If I out dps every dps player on my team as whm, it doesn't matter because the boss will still die in about the same amount of time. If I out dps every dps in a savage or ex trial, things won't go so well. The intent behind each type of content and what is required is different.