I'm gonna say something unpopular: I don't like to rush.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

If you're in a 80 dungeon and not pulling everything, then I have to question what you've been doing in dungeons this entire time.

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Having fun, probably?

I've mained WAR since launch. Maybe 10-15% of dungeon runs in those 7 years have I been asked to pull wall to wall by the group. And if I've said I was uncomfortable doing so, usually cus I was new to the dungeon or I hadn't run it in a while, they've been fine with it. Run at your own pace and if people truly have a problem with it, they'll let you know. Its perfectly fine to only want to run the dungeons as they were intended, by taking the packs on as you come across them.

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Originally Posted by KayRadley

I was trying to play catch-up

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Yeah, that's a mistake.

Pull as many as you want, and if others want to pull more, let them pull them back to you. And if it's the healer, as long as they're confident they can keep you alive, then don't worry about it and just deal with the enemies around you.

Also, if it's a healer, you might be able to get free transportation via Rescue, and that's always fun. So no need to play catch up as the tank.

OP I'm with you.
These duties have a lot of great details and can be downright beautiful if you just slow down and soak them in.

a tank is just another player if all the other 3 player want to rush he should.follow or just leave, tank is not and never the leader of party

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Originally Posted by ItMe

OP I'm with you.
These duties have a lot of great details and can be downright beautiful if you just slow down and soak them in.

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Run with trusts. Don't waste other people's time when there is an alternative.

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

Anyone with the "yOu pUlL iT yOu tAnK iT" mentality is a bad player, bar none, zero exceptions. You aren't special just because you're a tank and your party icon is blue. Get over yourself.

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In that same vein... you're not special to pull as a dps and expect to not die because you pull something the tank didn't. It goes both ways.

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

People don't want to spend 20min + in a boring dungeon . Rush is necessary if you don't want it don't queue as a tank for a dungeon

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Not every dungeon is "boring"... Maybe to you? Maybe not to them. Rush is NOT necessary OR required.

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Originally Posted by Raltar

Run with trusts. Don't waste other people's time when there is an alternative.

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The same can be said to people who want fast runs. Use party finder, use trusts, don't force other people to your standard of enjoyment. Your time is no more valuable than anyone else in duty roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Waterscape

A tank are nothing without a healer so what are you exactly talking about ? if the healer want to pull more its because its boring to pull a dungeon one by one. Nothing require you to aoe those mobs ? Please i hope you don't play tank. bad

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Actually, a good tank can do plenty without a healer. There is no one way around this, If the tank can't absorb a mass pull because their max HP is low, no amount of healing is going to stop several 4k crits coming at you at once and killing you (including if you have mitigation up). At the same time, a good tanky tank won't last long if the healer can't put out enough heals for the duration of the kill and dps take too long to kill the pack.


Is it really so wrong for people to just ask each other to play nice these days and respect one another instead of going "harumph, I'ma do what I WANT cuz screw all of you" ?? The hell is anyone's patience anymore.

Really to just conclude this thread. Duty roulette is literally made of randoms. If you're wanting fast runs, or you want to explore, you have options to setup party finders or do trusts. You are not guaranteed ANYTHING and there is no expectation except that everyone tries to make progress. The world revolves around no one, not you, not I. If you want what you want, consider a better route to getting that, otherwise... those randoms are as valuable as you think you are. This goes both ways whether you want a fast clear or want to enjoy the content, it will never be an expectation in roulette for you to be bound to someone else in how they play. No one is a machine, we're all human, not everyone skips cutscenes, not everyone will play to your exact desire, everyone is mortal and will die at a given time on the planet Earth and we have until then to enjoy what we have how we want to. Which means we have the choices and options to go whatever route we wish to, in order to fulfill what we want, whether it be a 5 minute breeze of a dungeon or helping a first timer understand the weight of a dungeon's impact on the story as the Warrior of Light. G'night folks, thread over.

Nobody expects you to pull a million mobs on learning content, but level 80 dungeons...? That's another story. I honestly wonder what's not fun about pulling 8 mobs...
You perform your AOE rotations against mobs and then have your single target rotations for each boss.

Sometimes I wonder if people actually have their aoe buttons even binded to their bars, like when I come across a RDM that doesn't know that Verthunder II/Veraero II + Impact exists against 10+ mobs I can't help but feel bad. That's a 2 freaking button AOE rotation you lazy bum.

It's because it's a 2 button AoE rotation is why pulling 8 mobs is not fun.

I big pull because it's expected. Not because I enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Bopsheezi

It's because it's a 2 button AoE rotation is why pulling 8 mobs is not fun.

I big pull because it's expected. Not because I enjoy it.

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If your main is a DRK they probably have the MOST to do in AoE situations.

Eh, dungeons are supposed to be the DPSs time to shine. For tanks in dungeons your skill is supposed to be in effectively managing your defensive CD's appropriately while doing as much damage as possible.

I think it's fairly safe to say that the average dungeon run will see tanks pulling 2 packs of mobs with no real lollygagging going on. Variances will happen on either side of that, and at least in my own personal experiences, groups will typically just go with the flow without issue.

I will say, it irks me when people pull ahead of a tank. X: This may stem from my own anxiety I have about tanking, but I figure the tank is doing what is comfortable for them, and that's cool with me.

As far as taking the time to look around the dungeon, I feel that if you want something more than just a quick spin around, this should be something you save for after the dungeon is completed. Expecting 3 random people to wait on you while you take in the sights at length is where it starts getting iffy.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

If your main is a DRK they probably have the MOST to do in AoE situations.

Eh, dungeons are supposed to be the DPSs time to shine. For tanks in dungeons your skill is supposed to be in effectively managing your defensive CD's appropriately while doing as much damage as possible.

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It just doesn't feel good. Not on DRK anyway. I don't think the AoE skills have much of an impact. But yeah I do agree DRK actually has a lot to do.

I prefer WAR for big pulls though, watching enemies hurt themselves on Vengeance is fun.

Idc since it’s just seconds to a few minutes they’re shaving and it’s not like any 80s dungeon in expert is remotely fun and anything else is so easy healers barely gotta heal (besides MSQ dungeons Ie The Vault, Bardam Mettle, Dohn Meg)

If healer pulls I let them die, don’t pull unless your a tank and as a healer I don’t mind big or small since new tanks come up every now and again and despite tanking being trivial and easy it’s still new to them

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Originally Posted by Jirah

If healer pulls I let them die, don’t pull unless your a tank and as a healer I don’t mind big or small since new tanks come up every now and again and despite tanking being trivial and easy it’s still new to them

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Eh, I wouldn't let them die. If a healer or dps pulls, I will protect the healer regardless. Annoying, yeah, but the healer keeps everyone upright. Dps...well, I will let the mobs bite their faces off for a few seconds before taking them. It gets the point across without making the dungeon take longer. Giving someone a bit of a scare is far more efficient than "you pull it you tank it" and letting them eat the floor. In my experience it works.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

If healer pulls I let them die, don’t pull unless your a tank

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The fact that this mode of thinking is still used/justified by players is mind boggling. That line of thinking is a relic from when (re)establishing aggro was actually somewhat difficult. As easy as it is now, it just comes across as being egotistical or childish.
The person pulling ahead without communicating they'd like larger pulls is similarly bad, but hot damn. No one ever teach you two wrongs don't make a right?

If the healer runs ahead and pulls, but brings the mobs directly to me, then I would continue AoEing and pick them up. Healer is only making his own life more difficult there, so if he can keep the group up then it's not really an issue. If he doesn't keep the group up, however, I'd probably vote kick.

If the Healer runs ahead and pulls, but just stands there like I was supposed to follow him, or if he touches me with Rescue, then I'd probably let him die.

If a DPS pulls ahead I'd probably go straight to vote kick; if it obviously wasn't an accident. Sorry, but DPS doesn't get to make that decision. The tank and healer are the ones that deal with the fallout of a bigger pull, so they decide what they're comfortable with.

You're the tank u decide the pace of things, not the dps or healer.

All 4 of u have the option to leave or kick if u don't like what's going on.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Rushing dungeons is the defacto standard for a few reasons;

Many players are entering dungeons through a daily system they want to finish efficiently.

The skill / coordination requirement behind rushing is very low, and it's therefore a widely accessible style of gameplay.



Due to said low skill floor, people may feel that going slowly feels obstructive and try to speed things along. This is particularly true for endgame roulettes like level 80 roulette or Expert in cases where it's clear no-one is new.

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Not only that but when you get DPS, tanks, and even healers like WHM that have AoEs, the want to pull as much as possible as fast as one can becomes the norm. Not so much in lower dungeons, but when you hit higher ones ... whew wee!

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If the healer runs ahead and pulls, but brings the mobs directly to me, then I would continue AoEing and pick them up. Healer is only making his own life more difficult there, so if he can keep the group up then it's not really an issue. If he doesn't keep the group up, however, I'd probably vote kick.

If the Healer runs ahead and pulls, but just stands there like I was supposed to follow him, or if he touches me with Rescue, then I'd probably let him die.

If a DPS pulls ahead I'd probably go straight to vote kick; if it obviously wasn't an accident. Sorry, but DPS doesn't get to make that decision. The tank and healer are the ones that deal with the fallout of a bigger pull, so they decide what they're comfortable with.

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I agree with this, except I'm also fine with a rescue as long as I am rescued to the enemies. If I'm rescued forward merely as a hint to pull more and there's nothing there, I'll just stay where I am recued and deal with the enemies I am already dealing.

That said,

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

I think it's fairly safe to say that the average dungeon run will see tanks pulling 2 packs of mobs with no real lollygagging going on.

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This has been my experience, so it's rare that someone would feel the need to pull ahead. Two packs are usually big enough for a satisfying round of AOE moves while still not be too overwhelming unless the party is undergeared or not doing AOEs.

Linear dungeon design in this game is complete garbage. They need to make dungeons dangerous and where the mobs are a threat.

They absolutely refuse to do it though.

If a dungeon was a threat we would be FORCED not to rush through them.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I agree with this, except I'm also fine with a rescue as long as I am rescued to the enemies. If I'm rescued forward merely as a hint to pull more and there's nothing there, I'll just stay where I am recued and deal with the enemies I am already dealing.

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I don't really like Rescue because it repositions the pull, which screws up DPS; it pulls mobs out of AoEs, forces DPS who popped CDs to waste time chasing the mobs, etc. If a Healer Rescues me I'll just immediately plunge back towards the mobs in my original position without picking up the extras. Then once I'm back in my original position if the healer wants to run the mobs to me then I'll pick them up.

Rescue as an ability kind of bothers me in general anyways. I wish they'd remove it.

The main reason as a tank (paladin) that I end up doing these large pulls and rushing is always less due to time (since if I plan on playing FFXIV I make sure to leave enough time to play) and more that once you hit a certain ilevel cap, slow pulling is just so boring. Numerous times where I was forced to slow pull cause the healer didn't want me to pull quick I didn't complain but I started to fall asleep at the keyboard cause I didn't really have to do much to keep aggro and not take a ton of damage.

Of course if we end up wiping cause the healer couldn't keep up with the amount of damage despite the cooldowns I use or they say they are new, than I don't mind as much going slower. It's just normal rushing cause than I actually have to pay more attention (and perhaps it is the same for many other tanks out there) to not end up dead.

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Originally Posted by Shalan

The fact that this mode of thinking is still used/justified by players is mind boggling. That line of thinking is a relic from when (re)establishing aggro was actually somewhat difficult. As easy as it is now, it just comes across as being egotistical or childish.
The person pulling ahead without communicating they'd like larger pulls is similarly bad, but hot damn. No one ever teach you two wrongs don't make a right?

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The average OF tank has a very fragile ego. Personally I'd feel like I'm not doing my job correctly if someone else pulled instead of me when I'm tanking.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I don't really like Rescue because it repositions the pull, which screws up DPS; it pulls mobs out of AoEs, forces DPS who popped CDs to waste time chasing the mobs, etc. If a Healer Rescues me I'll just immediately plunge back towards the mobs in my original position without picking up the extras. Then once I'm back in my original position if the healer wants to run the mobs to me then I'll pick them up.

Rescue as an ability kind of bothers me in general anyways. I wish they'd remove it.

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As a DPS main, I can understand that. But I've dealt with too many tanks moving unnecessarily anyway, so I'm used to it. And dungeons don't need too much optimizing, so they're more annoyances than something too detrimental.

But yeah, that's just me, and I can understand not liking rescue.

Yes every dungeon is boring after you done it multiple already . If you want to explore a dungeon go with your friend/fc or trust .

You are the tank, roulette queue time is like what under 5 mins? If you hate the pace either say something to let the party know or just leave and requeue after 30 mins penalty is up.

and there's no need to rant on forum, 90% of roulette runners just assume it's speed run unless pld or healer say something.

When i do expert roulette as pld, i pull wall to wall, if dps is slow i just drop the run and do something else for 30 mins (alt tab a quick league game) and requeue expert.

you are the tank, you always have the highest privilege.

I can't stand people (generaly healers, and as a healer main, it really makes me mad) who run ahead, pull mobs and don't stick to their tank's butt, splitting packs and making pulls in general less fluid and slower. These are really dumb and selfish players, and shouldn't be praised on forums.

Not trying to be mean but I HATE tanks like that.

Pulling freaking like...1 pack of mobs at a time in acceptable gear...I'm sorry if you can't tank a dgn and don't know how to use your defensive cooldowns that's pretty much useless the whole dungeon aside "arguable" some bosses to cheese.
You shouldn't be playing tank.

Just how it is, nobody wanna be stuck in a dungeon for 40mins/ longer than they have to.

This is more so aggravating in leveling dgns, where people that don't even know how to tank are at and just playing it just to get it to 80.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Not trying to be mean but I HATE tanks like that.

Pulling freaking like...1 pack of mobs at a time in acceptable gear...I'm sorry if you can't tank a dgn and don't know how to use your defensive cooldowns that's pretty much useless the whole dungeon aside "arguable" some bosses to cheese.
You shouldn't be playing tank.

Just how it is, nobody wanna be stuck in a dungeon for 40mins/ longer than they have to.

This is more so aggravating in leveling dgns, where people that don't even know how to tank are at and just playing it just to get it to 80.

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How are they supposed to learn without playing it tho?
Are you trying to help them or do you just complain?

I've had bad experiences where a Tank didn't speak English and was just running in the wrong direction fighting one mob at a time and we had to solo the dungeon without him, but it's extremely rare and an extreme example.
Most of the time people are willing and able to learn if you help them.
It takes time to grow confidence in yourself if you've never played Tank before and you're going through the process of level to 80, the dungeons do get harder and harder.
It's easy as someone who has been playing the game for years and have the power of hindsight but if you're new then you're unfamiliar with all of the dungeons.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

Pulling freaking like...1 pack of mobs at a time in acceptable gear...I'm sorry if you can't tank a dgn

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Pulling 1 pack at a time is already tanking a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Pulling 1 pack at a time is already tanking a dungeon.

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And using Single target skills on a group of mobs is dpsing.
Just because you're holding aggro on 3 mobs doesn't mean you're playing it right. As a samurai I can tank 3 mobs while the healer heals me, says a lot about how useless a tank is if they pull that much doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

How are they supposed to learn without playing it tho?
Are you trying to help them or do you just complain?

I've had bad experiences where a Tank didn't speak English and was just running in the wrong direction fighting one mob at a time and we had to solo the dungeon without him, but it's extremely rare and an extreme example.
Most of the time people are willing and able to learn if you help them.
It takes time to grow confidence in yourself if you've never played Tank before and you're going through the process of level to 80, the dungeons do get harder and harder.
It's easy as someone who has been playing the game for years and have the power of hindsight but if you're new then you're unfamiliar with all of the dungeons.

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Use common sense. If you're in like a level 15 dungeon sure that's fine.
But if you're in a lv80 dungeon or even level 50 and still don't know how to tank, maybe you shouldn't be tanking if you can handle large pulls and have to only pull each set of like what? 3 mobs? as that's the normal amount of each set of packs.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Pulling 1 pack at a time is already tanking a dungeon.

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A DPS can tank 1 pack at a time. If you can't tank better than a DPS you might as well have just queued as a DPS.

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Originally Posted by xxvaynxx

And using Single target skills on a group of mobs is dpsing.

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Indeed, but not comparable, as that would be the equivalent of the tank only tanking one mob in that pack.

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Originally Posted by Kalker

A DPS can tank 1 pack at a time. If you can't tank better than a DPS you might as well have just queued as a DPS.

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Yeah, but then the DPS would suffer even more in queue. And I've seen too many DPS get killed by one mob (not even a pack), so it's irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Valic

In that same vein... you're not special to pull as a dps and expect to not die because you pull something the tank didn't. It goes both ways.

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It doesn't, actually. The community standard is speed pulling and pulling as much as possible. If it's clear that the party is trying to go quickly, pull large, and can handle it, yet the tank is being stuck up and pulling small and/or being slow, then the DPS or healer pulling is completely fine and is frankly something that they should do in that circumstance. If you don't want impatient healers/DPS pulling for you as the tank, well, maybe you should speed tf up so they don't have a reason to outpace you.

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Originally Posted by Shalan

it just comes across as being egotistical or childish.

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It's almost as if a shockingly large percentage of tank & healer players in this game have gigantic egos about the simple fact that their party icon is blue/green. Amusingly enough, most of the people with this mindset are also extremely bad at the game. Ironic.

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Originally Posted by Lucy_Pyre

It's almost as if a shockingly large percentage of tank & healer players in this game have gigantic egos about the simple fact that their party icon is blue/green. Amusingly enough, most of the people with this mindset are also extremely bad at the game. Ironic.

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Considering you can beat most content in this game while being "extremely bad," that's not an issue.

And the only ones with "gigantic egos" are those who think their view is the "community standard" whereas many people would more often than not be willing to adjust to the tank's chosen pace.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Yeah, but then the DPS would suffer even more in queue. And I've seen too many DPS get killed by one mob (not even a pack), so it's irrelevant.

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I don't think this is the gotcha you think it is. If I spend an extra 3 minutes in queue but spend less 6 to 7 minutes in an instance as a result compared to a single pull tank it's a win as far as I'm concerned.

And you very much can tank as DPS. I know because I've healed one such DPS after the tank disconnected at the start of the dungeon and we couldn't kick him for a couple of minutes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

People will generally understand if you're still learning. But like, if you're in level 80 dungeons and have even somewhat current gear, stuff just can't really hurt you. Big pulls aren't for elites that know exactly and precisely what they're doing. They happen because the mobs become so trivially easy.

But I should say "big pulls", because most dungeons stop you with a wall before you can pull more than 2 groups. And 2 groups isn't really that big of a pull. More like a medium pull...

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Originally Posted by linayar

Indeed, but not comparable, as that would be the equivalent of the tank only tanking one mob in that pack.

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There are tanks that do that.
there are tanks that pull the mob and focus on one mob until its dead while dps are tanking the others because they're not paying attention. This has happened to me in leveling roulette more than once and they wasn't bot.
Useless tanks are useless.
I beat you're ok with that though because they're "tanking"

But since you're so hung on the "You're not tanking" since you totally omitted the rest of my post.
Take it as, you're not playing tank well and you shouldn't play tank if you can't tank more than what a geared melee dps can. Specifically (samurai ,mnk or drg)

If you don't want to "rush" through a dungeon, I suggest you form your PT in PF and not solo queue through DF. Most of the community, when they queue up for a dungeon, want to go fast as possible, including healers. Since, you know, unless the tank is pulling a lot, healer role is incredibly boring in dungeons.

It's really that simple.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Considering you can beat most content in this game while being "extremely bad," that's not an issue.

And the only ones with "gigantic egos" are those who think their view is the "community standard" whereas many people would more often than not be willing to adjust to the tank's chosen pace.

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Considering that the developers had to implement a very easy mode on solo instances for people who think just queuing up for a duty is doing enough, doesn't seem like the "community standard" is doing any favors for the playerbase and is an issue.