Tanks that want to take it slow?

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Originally Posted by Verlyn

I like how the implication here is that everyone else would have to ask 3 others what to do but the tank totally doesn't have to.

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That's how some of them think.

Speedrun is not a tank problem, it's healers'.

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Originally Posted by Kidria

To add, as far as we are into the expac, people that normally don't tank are still testing the waters thanks to them adding gunbreaker. I've a friend who played DPS her entire FF14 career so far and is just now really trying tanking, and it's irksome when she says she's new to tanking and people still try to outpull her because she's getting a feel for not just the job but tanking in general. You don't switch to tank and instantly have the confidence and skills to do wall to wall, esp in leveling dungeons when your party members are synced but you're at level, so I wish folks would calm down over it.

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I recommend she use Trusts then. I even said this to a friend of mine for precisely the same reason. She was initially nervous doing huge pulls. Trusts allow you to control the pace without inconveniencing anyone else. That being said, I often suggest even newer tanks try doing a double pull. Six monsters do very little damage, and you'll often find people more willing to accommodate tanks who do this because it shows they're trying to compromise. Personally? I straight prefer wiping because the tank tried a big pull but couldn't handle it. Why? I like they're trying to push themselves. Hence why I'll always reply "Eh, no biggy."

Nothing is more irksome than getting a 71+ dungeon and the tank only wants to pull one at a time. It tells me they wanted a faster run compared to Trusts since human players will typically do far higher damage. But they still wanted to enforce their preferred pace.

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Originally Posted by fumofu

1."It's sub-optimal play" - he says. How can you expect optimal play in a leveling dungeon, where players are learning their jobs and don't have optimal equipment?

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I don't, but that doesn't mean optimal play can't or won't happen. And when I say "optimal," I'm talking about a range of play.

Also, so we're clear, I don't think this topic is or was meant to be limited to leveling dungeons.

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2. Yes, it is acceptable and it MUST be acceptable and yes it goes two ways.

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That's not really up to you; nobody has to accept anything, whether it's from themselves or from others. Of course, how they act based on those feelings is another matter.

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If you insist on big pulls when tank or/and healer can't handle it, you're not doing any favors and you're just stressing everyone out as hell.

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Personally, I don't ever insist on big pulls.

As a tank, I will do big pulls in the absence of anyone objecting. If we fail, for whatever reason, then I will make adjustments if necessary.

As a healer, I will sometimes encourage the tank to pull more if I think they can handle it.

As a DPS, I will almost never say anything on the matter.

Still, regardless of how I act, I will still think that single pulling is sub-optimal play. It will bore me, if not outright annoy me, but I won't make those thoughts known to the party.

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You like pushing max effort? Ok, just bear trough leveling dungeons until lv80, gear up and go to savage or ex raids. This is where you can demand everyone to play perfectly and up to max standards. But please don't expect it in leveling dungeons.

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Pulling multiple packs doesn't require "max effort" or "perfect play," nor is it even close.

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Or else you're just making this game more toxic than it should be.

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In the end, you've inferred far more than I ever implied, in a fairly unfavorable way I think, and I can't help but wonder why.

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Originally Posted by Dragonkat

The biggest problem isn't pace it's teamwork.

It's your game to play how you choose.

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Given that the tank is, more than any other role, the pace-limiter for their party, I have to wonder -- was this irony intentional?

No elitist is asking you to perform perfectly in dungeon runs. Heck, they hardly ask in Savage. Your capacity as a gamer is your capacity as a gamer. What is asked is merely that you pay attention and follow simple guidelines like...

• Answering your "urgent phone call" before queuing, especially as a role with an instant queue time.
• Not going afk midfight because of business you, again, could easily have taken care of before entering the dungeon yet refuse to complete the dungeon before doing.
• Not idling just because you finished healing people up.
• Not standing in AoEs because 'it's just a dungeon anyways'.
• Using your Sprint.
• Using your cooldowns.
• Using your AoEs on 3+ targets.

Those are pretty easy standards to match and their consequences are a hell of a lot more than those "0.42 seconds" or even "few minutes" you'd "gleefully" sabotage the run of just to spite someone you assume to be "elitist". This is simply people not taking unnecessarily long to do things. They expect only basic competence. If you refuse even that much, are they really the ones forcing others to play their way?

And, please -- no one's "clearing Titania 20 times a day" for some tiny advantage. That is hyperbole not even anchored in reasonable theme or sense. See the difference?

If you're only doing 1 pack of mobs at a time a Melee DPS that knows how to use their own cool downs (that's right, they have Arms Reach and blood bath) can probably replace you, as they should be able to handle 1 pack at a time.

As for the leveling roulettes with "sub-optimal" gear and ect, if a tank isn't doing big pulls there, the trusts will replace you and the entire group you run with with, as trusts run about the same time with single pulls

Also the game provides you with gear as you level up through the quest. Sub-optimal gear is not a excuse, that and you never needed optimal gear to begin with. If you're several ilevels below, you should consider the following

A. Buy gear from a npc.
B. Go make some money and buy gear from a npc.
C. Make friends with a crafter and have them craft you gear.
D. Stop throwing away the gear the game gives you and use it until you get better gear.

As for learning how to use your job, most jobs rotations are 2-3 weaponskills. If they don't know how they interact with each other, they should go to a training dummy and learn how to use them in order, that's what training dummies are for.

In short, the problem I have with slow pull is that the game has kinda gone out of it's way to give every job the ability to deal with massive pulls. I understand if you're a new tank or healer and need time to figure out the basics, but if you're like 3-4 months+ into the game and you don't understand the very basics of how to do a large pull in a dungeon, you may want to stop and go look up a video on youtube on how to actually do it, ask for help, or sit down and read your skills.

What true optimal play would look like though is DPS putting up their damage buffs and flow into aoe's afterwards, tanks fully utilizing their stun and interject to stop other wise unavoidable area wide damage, large tank busters from a particular monster in packs (assuming their's no WHM AoE stunning), annoying aoe's that cause caster's to move, mages using the LB on particular packs to clear them out faster.

Which I will never expect from a pug. I do expect that you know how to play your job or for you to tell me that you do not upon entry however.

I've almost never had a problem big pulling in instances and this was my first MMO I've even played a tank extensively. The cooldowns are very straightforward and your AOE DPS rotations on tanks are...1-2 buttons like everyone else. Not everyone learns at the same pace, but that's why the Trusts exist for dungeons now. You learn your job until you're comfortable and take it to the "big leagues" (honestly the 4mans are a snooze fest without big pulls once you get to know them).
That said, while EXTREMELY rare, I've had healers who were uncomfortable with big pulls who I just slow down for, no biggie. But if you don't ask me to straight off I'm starting that instance at mach speed, as that is the usual preference of everyone involved. This has only bitten me in the ass once that I can recall, where I started mass pulling in Akademia Anyder and the healer just.../quit about midway through the pull. No red line of D/C, no "g2g sorry", just an instant disconnect and "Replenish Ranks?" message.

Not sure what that dude's problem was but it does touch on a point most people seem to be glossing over here: Big pulls are the default play, dungeons are designed with hard "walls" with this in mind. Now you can go beyond this in places like Mt. Gulg where you can make pulls I wouldn't trust random healers with, because it's 5 massive piles of mobs, but for the most part, you should be able to handle 3 packs of mobs in nearly any dungeon with ease. Tanks are designed for this, their cooldowns are balanced perfectly around being able to do this. If you DON'T do this, half of your skills as a tank are sitting there uselessly. There's nothing wrong with playing sub-optimally, but you have to accept that you are de facto choosing to inconvenience someone for your own benefit. There's especially nothing wrong with telling people "Hey I'm learning and not quite there yet" although one starts to raise eyebrows by the time people are in 70+ dungeons.

The true tactic here is to just play PLD when you tank. As soon as you get Clemency your healer is almost entirely optional in any 4 man content. With two competent DPS you LITERALLY don't need one.

I’m a nervous tank. However, small pulls bore the heck out of me. Same for DPS. Same for healer. Some small pulls on healer I don’t even have to heal... and, at that point, I’m nothing more than a weak, third DPS.

I assume (at least this is my opinion) that newer tanks usually want to go slower and people who want to rush things have maybe done the dungeon about 90+ times and are both bored/forget what its like to be newer and take it slower. If I’ve only done the dungeon a couple times I go slower too. Sometimes people are cool with it, sometimes they get triggered and refuse to heal (SCH >.>)

Some tanks like to take it slow. That's not really an issue for me so long as they are doing their job. Since picking up GNB with Shadowbringers I've gotten a bit more confident in my pulls after some trial and error. It mostly depends on what the healer of a group is capable of. If I feel that they can keep me alive I will do fairly large pulls. If they are not capable...well, I would rather not try. I can typically get a feel for what a healer can do within the first couple packs of trash.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

A bunch of opinions masquerading as facts with a side of cherry picking and putting words in peoples mouths.

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Did I ever say I would slow down on purpose to spite someone? No I did not, so we're back to this hackneyed straw man argument where people play bad on purpose. With a dash of "You don't pay my sub"

That's right. You don't. So put away the scarecrows and stop pretending anyone who doesn't play how you want is out to spite the mean ol elitist robots.

Cause yes, teamwork is the key. And NO. ONE. gets to dictate anyone's playstyle to suit their subjective =opinion= of what it should be. Tank sets the pace, shotgun shuts his cakehole [/supernatural]

That's not forcing you to change, it's forcing you to take an extra couple minutes. Learn the difference. And why should it matter? If you don't meet the exp per minute quota do you lose your speedrunner card? (See the aforementioned hyperbole)

I mean how DARE people impact YOUR game by choosing to be slow.

They should dictate their level of comfort to YOUR demands. How dare anyone suggest YOU change to meet the group right?

Otherwise they should just go play away from others in trusts. They don't deserve a seat at the cool kids table.

I take it back, you're not elitists. But your brand of toxic hypocrisy needs to learn that the dungeon run doesn't always get to go how you want. You agreed to that the second you joined a random group.

If you're this bent out of shape about it why are you still hitting the DF button?

"Let me be blunt" I can't stand your attitude as it's how I got two tanks who spent more time wiping than communicating. And how the speedrunner mentality that bled into the DPS > god mentality from people spending more time parsing then playing a GAME is enforcing unrealistic exceptions upon players who shouldn't have to feel obligated to meet it.

The OP wouldn't have even made this post if he didn't have some worry about doing it "wrong" because of the "optimal" people like you seem hell bent on enforcing. To the OP again I say you aren't because it's your decision how to play.

Now I will add that if you are capable of double pulls, by all means try it. If your healer says he can keep you up, have the faith to take that leap, it'll help your gameplay. and help you realize the power of the cooldowns. But don't let bullies ever force you.

Speedruns and wall to walls aren't the norm, it's past time people stopped treating them as such and expecting perfection from day 1.

If you want that hit up the party finder to find like minded. Or do you not have an FC to blaze through with how you want? Or is forcing you to do something you might not want to do outside the normal duty finder an "inconvenience" when it's suggested to you?

Too. Bad.

I don't mind either way.

Tanks are the one who have the right to set the pace, but that's just me. :D

i always do big pulls but there are times when i just dont feel like it. but usually if the dps is high enough it brings my mood back up.

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Originally Posted by Dragonkat

Speedruns and wall to walls aren't the norm, it's past time people stopped treating them as such and expecting perfection from day 1.

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it's day 60+.

Go play with Trusts until you're comfortable, then come over to the deep end.

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Originally Posted by Dragonkat

*snip*

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You're getting awful angry about people wondering why someone would choose to play their job poorly. If I went into an instance and "3/4 group members" told me they didn't want to hit AOE buttons but only single target, I'd definitely think they were playing wrong. I'd leave and not try and force the issue, but you are basically advocating people not use their toolkits to their full potential and be immune from backlash because of it. Everything is degrees I understand, but at a basic level, a tank not pulling at least more than one group is failing at his job as surely as a healer who doesn't press his heal buttons and lets people die, or a DPS doesn't AOE to do more damage so tank/healer resources avoid strain. None of the tanking cooldowns are required for single pulls, and there's so little damage being taken they do practically nothing anyway. Personally I think a tank player should be capable of more than hitting their tank stance and grabbing 3 mobs while they do a watered down DPS rotation. Nobody is saying you can't practice while you learn, nobody is perfect when they start, but if you're at max level then yeah, I'm gonna be curious why you want to slow pull, as even mediocre players by that point can do more than single pulls (I know because that's me!). I'm not going to report you or call you names, but I will usually make a mental note to avoid the person in the future if possible, because if 80 levels aren't enough to teach you how to pull more than a single group of mobs, I suspect you're not really trying. There's no hypocrisy about this though, because I'd be just as likely to avoid an AST who never used cards or a SAM that doesn't AOE.

Nobody is going to crucify you, but you are going to make people angry if you deliberately slow the pace of the whole party for your own whims (hint: I didn't say CAPABILITIES). Most people will understand completely if you say you're learning, but if you just try and say you're doing it for "fun" they're going to get mad and frankly rightly so: you're now putting your time above their time.

Before you say it's the same the other way around: people who want to go slow have an EXCELLENTLY designed option: Trusts. Instant, 0 queue times, cool story interactions and being able to battle with the NPCs, I pull wall to wall and I still love doing the occasional Trust dungeon because of how cool they are. Everything a slow puller wants with absolutely no inconvenience to anybody else. Someone who just wants to get an expert roulette done real fast doesn't have any alternative. If you have an option that caters to you but CHOOSE not to use it, instead opting to inconvenience other people who have NO options, then yeah, you're being selfish. But you're right, I don't pay your sub, and can't stop you from acting how you want, but if you keep making other people miserable you can't be surprised when they try to do the same.

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Originally Posted by Dragonkat

I mean how DARE people impact YOUR game by choosing to be slow.

They should dictate their level of comfort to YOUR demands. How dare anyone suggest YOU change to meet the group right?

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I mean how DARE people impact YOUR game by choosing to be fast. (fixed that for you)
They should dictate their level of comfort to YOUR demands. How dare anyone suggest YOU change to meet the group right?

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Originally Posted by Dragonkat

I take it back, you're not elitists. But your brand of toxic hypocrisy needs to learn that the dungeon run doesn't always get to go how you want. You agreed to that the second you joined a random group.

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Same goes for you.

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Originally Posted by Dragonkat

Speedruns and wall to walls aren't the norm, it's past time people stopped treating them as such and expecting perfection from day 1.

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They are for sure the norm in lvl 50/60/70/80 dungeons.
Some leveling dungeons can be harder to pull of, but thats it.

Maybe this is why they make trust, play on your own pace, to avoid these kind of toxicity.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

Maybe this is why they make trust, play on your own pace, to avoid these kind of toxicity.

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Trusts are a good system, that´s right.

"this kind of toxicity"
not your opinion=/=toxicity

Expecting average play from (not new) players isn´t toxic.

It's not wrong, but it's suboptimal at best. If the party you get is ok with that, than it's all good.
On the other hand, if majority ask you to pull more, it would be common courtesy to comply. In a multiplayer game such as this one, your decisions and actions actually impact other players.

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Originally Posted by Dragonkat

If you want that hit up the party finder to find like minded.

Too. Bad.

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Except the majority of people running DF are the people who would like you to not go out of your way to waste time, which is all single-group pulling amounts to when decently geared. That preference not to actively waste time is all that "elitism" here amounts to. Basic competence. Not afking. Not neglecting cooldowns that take virtually no effort to use anyways. That's it.

Multi-group pulls absolutely are the norm. Not pulling wall-to-wall has accounted for less than a tenth of my DF experiences even as a DPS (who is generally allowed no say in the decision, nor do I offer any opinion one way or the other), in ShB or SB, and never more than a fifth since early ARR.

Edit: Again, I'm not saying that one should always multi-pull. If they don't know how to tank, or the healer doesn't know how to heal, then that's that: you do the safe option (whereby a DPS could do the tank's job with a halfway decent healer) and pull fewer mobs. But enough players have basic competence that multi-pulling is the typical standard of play and, yes, you should expect to have to meet that average when in DF. The lowest denominator doesn't suddenly get a free pass when varied from the norm. And the worst "elitists" can do after the average is achieved is silently make your run easier.

I think a basic question to ask here is, if you ONLY like single pulls, not just doing them while learning to tank, why wouldn't you play a DPS where you don't have to care one way or the other? Let the healer and tank worry about the mob count, blast everything to your heart's content. You even get more buttons to press and things to do than as a tank, since as a tank, your skills are almost LITERALLY half of a DPS class's rotation and then tank cooldowns. Why not just skip all the defensive business and blow stuff up? Presumably you and definitely the people you're partied with will have more fun.

You do you
But if im healing and you're geared up fine and dps are too
Im gonna ask you to speed up
Some people just need that push

Like i had a Pld yesterday just i380 and a monk with a i290 weapon in don mheg
I would have asked them to pick up more but saw that monk weapon and figure its a slow ride this time

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Originally Posted by fumofu

For a big pulls to work, all players must be on a same skill level and decently geared. That's not always a case in 71-79 leveling dungeons, and I'm having huge problem with players who takes these dungeons as some kind of speedrun competition.


1."It's sub-optimal play" - he says. How can you expect optimal play in a leveling dungeon, where players are learning their jobs and don't have optimal equipment?

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Not since Bartam, the Shisui superpull, and one pull in the latest Castrum dungeon have I needed both my dps to even be at their keyboards to do a full pull safely as tank or healer. That is assuming my healer or tank (the other of the two) is playing decently and all three of us are decently geared, of course, but that's just 3 out of 4 players even present in the fight. Even with each tank and melee stopping repeating the first step of their new AoE combos because they haven't noticed the new steps being added (with no in-game notice, so... understandable), or forgetting to pop cooldowns, full pulls can still be safely done even while the healer does a fair bit of damage.

As for "optimal play" in leveling dungeons, generally, the expectation in, say, a level 54 dungeon is that you'll at least understand how to use the level 1-50 part of your kit and mostly understand how to use whatever new parts are functionally identical to something you already had (i.e. Battle Litany or Wanderer's Minuet functioning much like any other damage buff or Song, respectively, before you learn their idiosyncrasies in mastering them). By level 60 you'd be expected to have some idea of when and why Battle Litany might be rushed or delayed (though that's basically a nonissue now) or why you'd open with Wanderer's Minuet over Ballad or Paeon. By level 64 or so... you'd be expected to be making good use of those skills from 10 levels back. Sonic Thrust, being a much simpler concept to master (A-B-A-B-A-B...), most would expect you to start using with few slip-ups a few pulls after you acquire it. Etc., etc.

I find small pulls extremely boring as any role. I'm not gonna pull ahead of you or rescue you into more mobs, but honestly i wish tanks who like slow pulls would say so at the beginning of the dungeon so i can decide then and there if i want to deal with it or just eat the penalty and go fish for a while.

Imho superpull are a bane for new healers.. a good way to be fed up, stressed and give up the healing job. Sadly, most of the time tanks are not asking the healer for these kind of pulls...as a tank you have to care for your healer as much as he cares for you. Sometimes your healer will enjoy more a slow pace run.. sometimes not.. just communicate and you'll know.

Btw: If i wanna an effective speedrun i do not tag alone a roulette.. i run it with my FC friends or people i know.

Its ok if you want to take it slow, but It is not just up to you to decide

Healers can pull more if they feel comfortable.

The progress of the dungeon does not depend only on the tanks.

What are you doing differently in small pulls vs big pulls? You ate still doing aoe abilities and still popping CDs.. only difference is the number of mobs hitting you but you are doing the same thing as you would anyway. Only person really working more is the healer.

When I heal, or really when I play any role, I take pride in being able to adapt to whatever style the group prefers or needs. People who try to make it sound like tanks who take it slow are a plague and are losers who don't want to "improve" (lol at that idea) are just trying to force their idea of fun onto other people.

Bottom line, the DF is where you take what you get. Anyone trying to enforce a certain playstyle needs to do it through the PF. Want wall-to-wall pulls on every run? Go to the PF. Want single pack pulls every run? Do PF. Want to just heal and never dps? Go to the PF. Want every healer to always do their optimal dps? Go to the PF.

You sign up for the DF? You take what you get and deal with it. That's my opinion regarding this matter.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Not since Bartam, the Shisui superpull, and one pull in the latest Castrum dungeon have I needed both my dps to even be at their keyboards to do a full pull safely as tank or healer.

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Most of the time, levelling dungeons are excluded from the wall pull standard.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Most of the time, levelling dungeons are excluded from the wall pull standard.

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Not really? While I saw more tanks hesitant to pull everything when the expansion first dropped. I seldom see them pull one pack at a time now.

The first pull tells all. If it takes forever, gotta take things slow anyway.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Not really? While I saw more tanks hesitant to pull everything when the expansion first dropped. I seldom see them pull one pack at a time now.

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ShB's levelling dungeons are somewhat easier, yeah.
But even now if you go into the older ones you'll find people do mid sized pulls more often than a full pull.

The "Pull everything" mantra has always been true for level cap dungeons, not for levelling dungeons. While you can, it's not generally included with the blanket recommendation that is true for the cap dungeons.
More than one pack at a time, yeah always do that. Everything is generally for cap dungeons.

I like to annoy BLM by waiting for LL then run off to the next pack.

:)

If the 1st set of mobs melt I pull til the pulling is done. If the mobs take awhile then I hit play on netflix.

I do pull as much as i can and try to make the dungeon go as fast as possible. If i que up as a tank i also have to take responsibility for the speed of the dungeon. If i am not going for the next pack it means i somehow fucked up and got CD's but i will go to the next one asap. I try to keep all of that in mind and Wall to Wall pull everytime nowadays. Not sure why you would que up to "take it slow". Get a party for that.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

When I heal, or really when I play any role, I take pride in being able to adapt to whatever style the group prefers or needs. People who try to make it sound like tanks who take it slow are a plague and are losers who don't want to "improve" (lol at that idea) are just trying to force their idea of fun onto other people.

Bottom line, the DF is where you take what you get. Anyone trying to enforce a certain playstyle needs to do it through the PF. Want wall-to-wall pulls on every run? Go to the PF. Want single pack pulls every run? Do PF. Want to just heal and never dps? Go to the PF. Want every healer to always do their optimal dps? Go to the PF.

You sign up for the DF? You take what you get and deal with it. That's my opinion regarding this matter.

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This feels hypocritical to me. If you take what you get and deal with it, does that not extend to people who want to pull quickly? I guaranteed you 9/10 runs 3/4 members in your group will want to fast pull. I haven't done enough instances to be some kind of ultra "expert" or anything but I've probably run close to 3-400 in this game, and I've never met a single individual who disliked multiple pulls EXCEPT if they were still trying to learn, which everybody has stated repeatedly is just fine. As a counterpoint to your point I suppose, if you queue up and want to slow pull and everyone else does resents you for it and you still try to make them do it, then yes, you are the jerk in that situation. You can hem and haw about people "forcing their playstyle" on other people but it's a multiplayer game: nearly everybody playing it is going to want to spend as little time as possible grinding content they've previously completed, potentially dozens of times.

You're the only one discussing forcing playstyles on people by trying to make them "adapt". Yes, if 3/4 people in a DF want slowpulls you should go along with it, but that is so absurdly infrequent it's not even worth discussing. What is WAY more likely is the person who wants slow pulls forcing their playstyle on everyone else. When they CAN'T do any better because they're bad or learning, nothing you can do about it, that's perfectly alright and most people here probably wouldn't balk. But if you're in a dungeon you've cleared several times, on a class you've gotten to max level, and you get in a DF and CHOOSE to go slow, most people are going to be rightly upset at you for slowing them down.

Don't like it? It's DF, you take what you get and deal with it. That's how it goes right?

Anyone can dps (AOE), anyone can tank, but not anyone can heal, so it's up to the healers tbh. If the healer is okay with it, then do the full pull.

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Originally Posted by Yrantis

This feels hypocritical to me. If you take what you get and deal with it, does that not extend to people who want to pull quickly?

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Yes. That's why I'm fine with both. If you read my comment. I do what the group wants. There's nothing hypocritical about it. I practise what I say.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Yes. That's why I'm fine with both. If you read my comment. I do what the group wants. There's nothing hypocritical about it. I practise what I say.

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That's consistent if nothing else, but saying the individual should adapt to the group in a multiplayer game is...exactly how the people who get mad at slow pullers feel. I'd be amazed to meet anybody who found a group that was the other way around at high levels. I don't think anybody here is talking about Satasha when they get mad at slow pullers, they're probably talking about people pulling one group at a time in Mt. Gulg.

Do this! Nothing but this! All of THIS!!

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Originally Posted by Canadane

ShB's levelling dungeons are somewhat easier, yeah.
But even now if you go into the older ones you'll find people do mid sized pulls more often than a full pull.

More than one pack at a time, yeah always do that. Everything is generally for cap dungeons.

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I am certainly guilty of zoning into the level 15 and 16 dungeons, seeing 3 green leafs, and pulling everything. I know that even as a low level scaled down to nothing tank I could possibly solo half of it... so in those low dungeons I will let loose and let the DPS and healer enjoy.

The higher up I go the more likely I flip it, and start slow then ramp up. As in, the less time that I can survive aolo, the more likely I am the make sure my group is ready first...

This thread has Boy George’s Nice and Slow in my head...
https://youtu.be/CuIxFXXdg58