Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

If they removed the mana cost on TBN DRK would have even less mana management. Then there'd be no reason to look at your mana bar except pooling for TA windows, or pooling mana for an aoe/priority add situation.

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Originally Posted by Shucky

How was mashing Dark arts after every action a good idea in the first place? That wasn't fun, that was a headache and it felt awful.

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You weren't 'mashing Dark Arts after every action'. Dark Knight was fun and it felt fine.

It needed tweaks and fun new additions, not totally messing with.

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Originally Posted by Vaerum

If they removed the mana cost on TBN DRK would have even less mana management. Then there'd be no reason to look at your mana bar except pooling for TA windows, or pooling mana for an aoe/priority add situation.

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The current build isn't a management tank anymore. Its brain dead. It's just war but instead of using the beast gauge for everything it uses blood gauge and mp. You blow all you're mp/blood then build it back up. No management necessary, no punishment for screwing up, and no reward for doing it well.

Again, I said make it cost mp, but if all goes well and pops refund the mp and you get the dark arts proc. All the risk, all of the reward. And that way it's also in line with the other similar tank abilities which have zero resource cost.

If you feel like your overcapping on mana then you aren't using edge of shadow enough. If you still request more mp spenders then you'd need an addition to BW. The mana gain potential in this build could use a slight boost as it stands.

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Originally Posted by Shucky

How was mashing Dark arts after every action a good idea in the first place? That wasn't fun, that was a headache and it felt awful.

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It's your opinion. For me that button was a bless. Made me chose between damage and utility options on some skills and raise my APM a bit. The only thing I realy hated and can't understand during the Stormblood is all those role skills. They could make rework around the Dark Arts, tbh. This one button could just unload our loadouts of skills with changing one skill to other and giving them different properties. But we got the 5.0 simplifying everything we loved.
It WAS fun for the likes of me, the Dark Arts. More than that I've even ENJOYED the pre 5.0 MCH with it's reload mechanic and I HATE what they done to him.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

I get that some don't like the rework and you are welcome to your opinions, but I really find these rose-tinted recollections of the Heavensward and Stormblood versions of dark to be quite odd. I think more people that are touting the greatness of these past incarnations should go back and read the feedback that was being given at those times. They might be surprised by what was being said, sometimes even by themselves.

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People who enjoy it don’t tend to come to forum and make a thread of it.
Personally I haven’t level up my DRK, been so busy. Yet, the change it SB especially with DA was the reason I drop it in SB and move to WAR instead

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

I get that some don't like the rework and you are welcome to your opinions, but I really find these rose-tinted recollections of the Heavensward and Stormblood versions of dark to be quite odd. I think more people that are touting the greatness of these past incarnations should go back and read the feedback that was being given at those times. They might be surprised by what was being said, sometimes even by themselves.

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At the very least in HW DRK felt unique with a tool kit that was its and its alone. Was it perfect? No, but at least it wasn’t just a copy of WAR :/

This is why I moved to a dragoon main. They're not the best dps, but they're solid still. They have a long-as-hell rotation, but it keeps me engaged. They have split-decision-making moments, and they're relatively unchanged as of this xpac. That means if you liked them in StB, you'll probably still like them in ShB, now that they have a legit AoE rotation that works.

I leveled my dark knight for the MSQ, for the role playing aspect, but dragoon is just way more fun to use.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

It's your opinion. For me that button was a bless. Made me chose between damage and utility options on some skills and raise my APM a bit. The only thing I realy hated and can't understand during the Stormblood is all those role skills. They could make rework around the Dark Arts, tbh. This one button could just unload our loadouts of skills with changing one skill to other and giving them different properties. But we got the 5.0 simplifying everything we loved.
It WAS fun for the likes of me, the Dark Arts. More than that I've even ENJOYED the pre 5.0 MCH with it's reload mechanic and I HATE what they done to him.

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You never had to choose.

Everything that was enhanced by Dark Arts was good enough that you would never wanted the option without Dark Arts. It was never a hard choice. What are you talking about?

I guess you also like having very inconsistent damage then.

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Originally Posted by Shucky

You never had to choose.

Everything that was enhanced by Dark Arts was good enough that you would never wanted the option without Dark Arts. It was never a hard choice. What are you talking about?

I guess you also like having very inconsistent damage then.

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For example "Split and carve"? I had an option: do I want mana or damage? About inconsistent damage - that's, again, YOUR opinion. I never had any problems with damage on DRK or MCH before and I've never had the strong wish to fall asllep in the dungeon, because I had something to do.The jobs were intersting and unique - not anymore, now they are just generic. Too simple and bleak. I will still play them, just because I like the THEME there was once, but as much as I played before.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

You weren't 'mashing Dark Arts after every action'. Dark Knight was fun and it felt fine.

It needed tweaks and fun new additions, not totally messing with.

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I always compared those SB three tanks to cars.

PLD: Automatic

WAR: Originally a standard that got changed to into an automatic by 4.2

DRK: Standard

Each one had their own things to do but you can tell that some were designed to have much more rolled into them. For a time I would say the complexity of gauge management for WAR and DRK were almost the same for a time but when Inner Release got changed in 4.2(making BG moves free instead of half) it made WAR much easier to play/optimize

DRK for the rest of 4.x from that point had the fun of managing blackblood. The old blood weapon making gcd's go by faster made it feel insanely fun. Add in that your Dark Artsing more moves during that period and it made the job very very active but rewarding. DAing into perfectly timed Bloodspillers during raid buffs gave me the feeling WAR did with IR Fell Cleave crits, just getting that sweet feeling of damage.

My DRK is currently 74 and I do enjoy weaving FoS in between my aoe combos, and EoS's during my Delirium Bloodspillers, but it doesn't compare to the fun I had with SB DA. It's stupid I know because we all make memes about DA but it had a feeling the current DRK lacks, and it's replacement just doesn't add up.

I'm hoping SHB will only improve on some of these jobs through patches as I feel there is something in current DRK that can be salvaged, but in it's current state it feels like it's just aping WAR. Fray is nice but when Nascent Flash is extremely fun to use it does make DRK look like it's kicking the sand waiting for it's time to shine.

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Originally Posted by Shucky

You never had to choose.

Everything that was enhanced by Dark Arts was good enough that you would never wanted the option without Dark Arts. It was never a hard choice. What are you talking about?

I guess you also like having very inconsistent damage then.

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you have a lot of aplications with DA, granted less in SB but still much more that now, depending of the situation DA have diferent priorities, for example in single target you use it on carve and spit for the damage but in aoes you use CaS to recover mp bcs is more effective and you choose on what GCD you use DA to addapt better you mitigation, the exageration of DA on every GCD was a lie DRK wasn't that busy so you always have a room to coordinate and make everything flow so nice. on aoe situations you spend you MP on abyssal drain mostly and TBN, you choose to use you DA on abyssal drain in the case you need some HP or on dark passenger if you want to inflic a lot of damage, what we current have now? TBN as usual, edge being a shinten without any choice, you are forced to use 1 to dont overcap and expend all you can on TA and flood is you only choice on aoes, current DRK have less options and the "i spend my MP when i want" is technically a lie if you wanna play the job optimally bcs TA.

old DRK feels clunky if you was bad on it.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

For example "Split and carve"? I had an option: do I want mana or damage? About inconsistent damage - that's, again, YOUR opinion. I never had any problems with damage on DRK or MCH before and I've never had the strong wish to fall asllep in the dungeon, because I had something to do.The jobs were intersting and unique - not anymore, now they are just generic. Too simple and bleak. I will still play them, just because I like the THEME there was once, but as much as I played before.

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You didn't even get the name right.

You also always DA'd with CS for the MP gain. Again, there wasn't a choice.

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Originally Posted by Shucky

You didn't even get the name right.

You also always DA'd with CS for the MP gain. Again, there wasn't a choice.

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The name is not the point, i'm no english (imagine that). And AGAIN - it's YOUR opinion, just like I have mine. And for me there is always a choice. And I always will stand for options and INTERSTING mechanics of the game. They may be difficult for some simpletons - I DON'T CARE - but as far as job remains interesting and rich with options - it's a good job. Now there is none. Or, as you love to say - there is no choice anyway.

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Originally Posted by Shucky

You didn't even get the name right.

You also always DA'd with CS for the MP gain. Again, there wasn't a choice.

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You didn't even get how the skill was used right. :confused:

You used DA on C&S to do more damage, not gain MP.

Meanwhile i am glad that the old dark arts is gone mainly because of the animation i didn't like. I always did find it out of place, like going into super saiyan mode with a weird color, except that i do play FF14 and not some DBZ game. Something who did irritate me because it didn't visually fit with the other skills, especially when you had to spam it and see it all the time.

On the contrary i did always find that Bloodspiller was looking good, so i have a blast being able to spam it now several times in a row.

You can throw me rotten tomatoes if you dont like that some of the reasons i like the new DRK way much than the old are aesthetic ones XD

Do we have some numbers on how many people are playing DRK right now compared to SB ? In the end it is that who will determine if SE is gonna make big changes again to the job or not.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

You didn't even get how the skill was used right. :confused:

You used DA on C&S to do more damage, not gain MP.

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C&S I believe was a 10% mp regen with 100 pot if you used it without DA.

Otherwise it was 400 pot with no regen effect if you did use DA.

Just adding for the clarification

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Originally Posted by Kleeya

Meanwhile i am glad that the old dark arts is gone mainly because of the animation i didn't like. I always did find it out of place, like going into super saiyan mode with a weird color, except that i do play FF14 and not some DBZ game. Something who did irritate me because it didn't visually fit with the other skills, especially when you had to spam it and see it all the time.

On the contrary i did always find that Bloodspiller was looking good, so i have a blast being able to spam it now several times in a row.

You can throw me rotten tomatoes if you dont like that some of the reasons i like the new DRK way much than the old are aesthetic ones XD

Do we have some numbers on how many people are playing DRK right now compared to SB ? In the end it is that who will determine if SE is gonna make big changes again to the job or not.

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well leaving aside the DA animation vs edge animation the rework make almost nothing to bring ppl to the job since many old mains are angry about it and others are just half ok or simple ok. what bring ppl to the job was the marketing around it to promote the expansion and the "dark" theme on it, so is technically imposible bring accurate numbers bcs of that, many ppl that just didn't play/care the job before are playing now without a old version to base the level of fun of the current one and freely say it's fun.

what i miss now of the new animations it's one that make you feel you sacrifice you life, old DA have that feeling sacrificing you MP (life force in lore) to enchance you next attack, edge lack that feeling complety, if only the animation have some aura that come from you body to you sword or something.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

You didn't even get how the skill was used right. :confused:

You used DA on C&S to do more damage, not gain MP.

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And generally you had Grit turned off which gave C&S the MP gain.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

And generally you had Grit turned off which gave C&S the MP gain.

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. . .
Grit did nothing to the MP gain on CnS. At all. All grit did was double the MP regain on Syphon, and add the HP gain to SE.

Why is this thread still going lol, its people who don't know DRK complaining about DRK and people who know DRK complaining about DRK.

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Originally Posted by shao32

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You do realise that you spent the past year or so complaining that the Stormblood Dark Arts system was clunky and needed a rework, right?

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Originally Posted by shao32

...DRK need a rework of the entire dark arts system and being equally impacfull in a fight like the other 2 not make it more clunky and akward to use.

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"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."

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Originally Posted by Valic

Why is this thread still going lol, its people who don't know DRK complaining about DRK and people who know DRK complaining about DRK.

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It's the same people posting the same thing in every thread hopefully the patch notes will add some actual conversation instead of people just complaining about DRK 24/7.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

You do realise that you spent the past year or so complaining that the Stormblood Dark Arts system was clunky and needed a rework, right?

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And why asking for a change means that we should automatically be okay with something that feel worse ?

Remember "mobile BRD and its weak DPS" compared to "turret BRD and its high DPS" ?

I'd also like you to quote the many complains about "how Salted Earth is too powerful", "how abyssal drain needs to be an oGCD", "how MP regeneration is too high", "how we have too much combos to use" or "how we want to spam Bloodspiller like an Edgly WAR".

I'm sure things will get better next expansion. They won't.

Now if Warriors were complaining we'd see some stellar change in 2 months.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

You do realise that you spent the past year or so complaining that the Stormblood Dark Arts system was clunky and needed a rework, right?



"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."

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excuse me what? can you at least give me the link of that post lyth? mostly bcs i wanna see in what contest i say that if i say that and in what day bcs i remember perfectly complaing more about WAR status and his favoritism more that anything else since i was one that really enjoy SB DRK.

edit: never mind i find it my self:

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Is there is something more boring than warrior? =P
Yet he is being played the most of all three tanks, because he is effective.
Tanks cant be complicated, their job is enough complex.
And DA is just an enchancment, nothing more. Increasing resources pool for drk will open up more options for different rotations, even dark passenger would be used in this case with DA.
I will say it all the way, drk needs more resources, it will affect the effeciency of mediocore players a lot, and as for better ones they will have to find a way to play around animation clip, i believe they will handle it, still they will gain a lot of additional dps.
Its not like drk has enough mana and blood to use frequently bloodspiller and other enchanted with da skills.

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fun is relative, most WAR i know they love the job for his simplicity and fell cleaves with is ok even if is not for me, and i doubt it will reduce the skill gap betwen average and top DRKs, more like it will increase it, DRK need a rework of the entire dark arts system and being equally impacfull in a fight like the other 2 not make it more clunky and akward to use.

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i just recheck the entire thread and i see in what context i say that and seems it was my poor english writting that make it sound like it wasn't i want to say, i was reply to this person that want to make DRK resource generation being bigger, and i was counter argument his overall argument and idk why i choice that words but i can ensure you that was never what i wanted for DA.

my bad for make a easily missunderstanding post and i apologize for my bad choice of words but reworking DA was never my point, it was ajust the rate and have more options and even increase the impact not removing it.

i spend the last hour searching all my post with DARK ARTS on it and in all of then i defend DA in a way or another and i claim is fun and unique system on others , but i was agree it have some kind of over use that make some don't like it. since when you lyth start using cherry picking tactics to make an argument? are you so boring and run out of arguments you spend you time doing this now? i consider you better that this.

2º edit: i almost forgeth, even if someone ask for a DA rework we didn't get that since DA has been complety removed from the game, the TBN mechanic of recover what you paid for it getting the name of dark arts it's not a rework, it's keep the name of the skill for the sake of keeping it in the game.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

At that point, why didn't they simply increase the MP cost and potency of Dark Arts ?

You don't even really have to manage Darkside since your combo itself gives you plenty of MP to never let it fall.

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That is more or less exactly what they've done, isn't it? I think BW uptime was in a really sweet spot last expanion once they reduced the Delirium recast. Wish they hadn't messed that up. I've got issues with DRK but they're not sourced from Edge/Flood.. More like everything else :P (if anything would be nice if Edge had a little more range though)

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Originally Posted by Danelo

I don't know about them having better control over when they dump potency.. When timer says go bs spam, you do it, otherwise you hurt overall dps output by holding it for too long. That doesn't feel like a choice or control..

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That's true, but I was speaking in terms of MP -> DPS, not the blood resource. Like I said I'm disapointed the blood gauge wasn't tuned.. PLD got their Oath gauge changed to a lvl 35 unlock (moving Sheltron to lvl35), I feel DRK needed some of that same treatment, move BS/Q to an earlier lvl: Unlock the Blood Gauge at a lower level, instead of it being juxtaposed atop a kit in which it doesn't marry very well with, and not doing so until a late lvl63.

To break the semblence to WAR: say DRK gets BS as early as lvl 8. All we do with BS/Q is insert it into our rotation (like we currently do, like WAR does with Beast/Cleave), but as DRK levels up DRK unlocks Job Traits that allow BS/Q to inherit the Combo Bonuses and Combo Priming of steps in the 1-2-3 and 1-2 (AOE) rotations. So progressively DRK stops inserting BS/Qs to the rotation like WAR and instead starts replacing WSs (closer to MNK or old HW Delirium getting swapped out for DA+Souleater). Could even have BS/Q animation change on each step old Scourge, Tar Pit, etc

PLD and DRK could have their Blood/Oath gauges adjusted such that instead of going from 0-100, they only go from 0-50. Once they hit 50 a charge is added to the widget, as many as 5 (they may need to decay over time). I think that would be a more appropriate meter for each.

tl;dr my issue with Delirium is an issue with Blood itself.. The writing was on the wall when they introduced that mechanic last expansion. Wish the 'rework' would have dug into Blood gauge. Its a mechanic we're stuck with. IMO it could be better integrated into the kit, consequently the kit more distinct. But yes we're more likely to see, if anything, QoL for Living Dead and TBN, and a replacement to Dark Mind. How DM survived the rework is baffling to me. I lost a bet on that one. That's the priority, Blood changes would be a preference. The budget-Warrior didn't just happen with the new Delirium, that seed was planted in Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

PLD and DRK could have their Blood/Oath gauges adjusted such that instead of going from 0-100, they only go from 0-50. Once they hit 50 a charge is added to the widget, as many as 5 (they may need to decay over time). I think that would be a more appropriate meter for each.

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Why should we even have a gauge that fills and that we spend to use skills in the first place ?
DRG and NIN don't share the same gauge concept, nor do BLM and RDM, etc...

But no, PLD and DRK simply received a discount Beast Gauge, which, by the way, removed one WAR uniqueness before SB.

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Originally Posted by Awful

It's the same people posting the same thing in every thread hopefully the patch notes will add some actual conversation instead of people just complaining about DRK 24/7.

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Man, I really, really hate when people say things like this (I'm talking about your final sentence in particular). How is there not actual conversation going on? Did you even read through this post? Or did you just take a glance at the title alone and write this? Most people who are upset with DRK aren't merely "just complaining", they ARE trying to start actual conversations about DRK by saying exactly what they don't like about it, why they don't like it, and sometimes even throwing out suggestions on what can be done to rectify these things. I mean for goodness sake, OP himself even did this, so stop trying to make it sound like people are just baselessly complaining for the sake of complaining, because you couldn't more wrong about that.

Nothing is perfect, if things are going to get better, then there needs to be people who bring attention to shortcomings and faults. It's actually ironic, because by you complaining about the people who are doing this, you're actually the one who's trying to prevent actual conversation from happening. It's actually you who has the baseless complaints that will literally accomplish absolutely nothing.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

Man, I really, really hate when people say things like this (I'm talking about your final sentence in particular). How is there not actual conversation going on? Did you even read through this post? Or did you just take a glance at the title alone and write this? Most people who are upset with DRK aren't merely "just complaining", they ARE trying to start actual conversations about DRK by saying exactly what they don't like about it, why they don't like it, and sometimes even throwing out suggestions on what can be done to rectify these things. I mean for goodness sake, OP himself even did this, so stop trying to make it sound like people are just baselessly complaining for the sake of complaining, because you couldn't more wrong about that.

Nothing is perfect, if things are going to get better, then there needs to be people who bring attention to shortcomings and faults. It's actually ironic, because by you complaining about the people who are doing this, you're actually the one who's trying to prevent actual conversation from happening. It's actually you who has the baseless complaints that will literally accomplish absolutely nothing.

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Yeah seems to be a lot of players just like to complain about people complaining and have no interest in what a players complaints actually are. Not very constructive. But hey all tanks can clear all content so I guess all these complaints are pointless.

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Originally Posted by shao32

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As we've learnt over the course of the past few expansions, players generally avoid using defensive/'utility' actions that cost you dps to use. That's why the new Raw Intuition has replaced Inner Beast, and why Sheltron no longer grants MP. Dark Arts was interesting as a concept, but really only could have worked in the long term in a closed resource system which had no potency value attached, similar to PLD's Oath gauge presently works.

The solution that was applied towards the end of Stormblood was to attach a potency value of 140 to anything that you applied Dark Arts to, but at that point it just made more sense to make the defensive/utility effect baseline and separate out the potency. Edge and Flood are still effectively an extension of the same system as Dark Arts used in 4.3, except that you get the potency instantaneously instead of on the next GCD.

Edge and Flood are still functionally Dark Arts ("A rose by any other name..."), albeit on a more streamlined system. Two things have changed however: the potency value, and the rate at which they can be used. As you may have noticed, the majority of potency values on the GCDs have increased, while the potency values on oGCDs have stayed the same. This means that clipping is more heavily punished this time around.

Edge and Flood are interesting in that their potency values are often on par with, if not in excess of, the value of your average GCD. So their placement becomes more important, and you need to be more selective in their use under raid buffs. It's no longer "I have {dark arts} to use {dark arts} this ability {dark arts} every other GCD to avoid capping" and instead "I need to use this ability at these specific points to maximise my dps." We could stand to see a marginal increase in the rate of MP generation for dps tuning purposes, but if the rate is too high, it loses its decision-making value.

I'm not saying that there aren't places where DRK could stand to be improved. Living Dead is an important subject for discussion, and I hope that it gets addressed in the coming Q+A. The topic of damage-type specific mitigation is another very important topic, when you compare abilities like Dark Missionary and Heart of Light to Shake it Off and Divine Veil on identical recasts. This is especially true now that E4S is shaping up to be a physical-only fight, both in terms of tankbusters and raidwides. I see more pressing issues at the moment, and I'd prefer to pick my battles.

And nobody ever said that I fight fair. I am a Dark Knight, after all.

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Originally Posted by TheForce

Man, I really, really hate when people say things like this (I'm talking about your final sentence in particular). How is there not actual conversation going on? Did you even read through this post? Or did you just take a glance at the title alone and write this? Most people who are upset with DRK aren't merely "just complaining", they ARE trying to start actual conversations about DRK by saying exactly what they don't like about it, why they don't like it, and sometimes even throwing out suggestions on what can be done to rectify these things. I mean for goodness sake, OP himself even did this, so stop trying to make it sound like people are just baselessly complaining for the sake of complaining, because you couldn't more wrong about that.

Nothing is perfect, if things are going to get better, then there needs to be people who bring attention to shortcomings and faults. It's actually ironic, because by you complaining about the people who are doing this, you're actually the one who's trying to prevent actual conversation from happening. It's actually you who has the baseless complaints that will literally accomplish absolutely nothing.

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Have you not been around lately or something? The same people are complaining about DRK and how bad it is but yet they don't have anything to base it off of other than "it plays exactly like WAR". That's the only comments I've been seeing other than the posts that are like "it should be a blood beserker with dread spikes" or "it should sacrifice HP for XXX thing", it's the same thing over and over with no clear conciseness.

I play DRK actively it's my main, I love it, and even I have posted what needs to be changed because DRK isn't horrible and yet people come in here everyday saying how trash it is. Does it need tweaks? Yes, very minor tweaks, has it lost it's identity? No, the reason it's so out of whack is that no one knows what they want from DRK and that's why it suffers because people come in here complaining that it's bad and its gameplay has no redeeming factors.

So yes before you call me out I have been actively in the DRK threads, as a DRK main the only thing that needs to be changed is the MP gains, Dark Mind, Living Dead, other than that the class plays amazingly and I love how it plays, the people who come in here everyday saying it's Inner Release WAR but budgeted yeah that's who I was referring to.

Edit: You also never took DRK into any meaningful content yet, only PLD so I'd really like it if you'd actually take DRK into some EX trials or Eden for that matter before you even post it's hard to take you seriously if you're an 80 DRK but literally haven't done anything.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

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edge and flood are simple shinten/kyuten but despite i like DA i don't have any specific problem with this new skills, my problem is when they removed complety DA mechanics instead to make it as a CD more that add diverse defensive effects or meaby ofensive effects with a proper recast or adjust the rate with other MP expenders, i hate they choose to remove the entire mechanic for nothing.

the only problem i see with edge right now is the skill is the main problem of TBN now due it's bcs of edge TBN have such huge punishment. his use is extremly limited by the amount of resourced generated, there is no interesting about it at all since they just gimmic PLD gameplay of storage everything and trow it on TA, i will grant you a point if resource generation was higher but base you fun on TA it's lame for me, if you want to belive this is god send i wont stop you but be more realistic, edge/flood are much much more simple that DA by a mile.

the resume is DA offer much more interest gameplay and i consider his main problem was his spam you are forced to have make some didn't like the job and reduce the spam and keep a DRK mechanic that was his esence from HW should have been a thing instead of this, the removal of DA was complety unjustified when the main problem is to much DA, DA and edge/flood could coexist perfectly but they made a poor choice doing this and despite of my derp post i didn't want it to being removed.

you know i deserve the hit from that derp post, i grant you that, but is not what we get even if that post was legit to my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Awful

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DRK has lose all his original mechanics and gameplay flows except living dead, is that is not lose identy idk what you think it is except you belive identity is only animation and aesthetics with is just a fraction of they identity.

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Originally Posted by shao32

DRK has lose all his original mechanics and gameplay flows except living dead, is that is not lose identy idk what you think it is except you belive identity is only animation and aesthetics with is just a fraction of they identity.

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And that's your opinion, if anything DRK lost the most from HW > SB where it became something lesser of itself DA spam,all of its old moves Low Blow, Dark Dance Reprisal were stripped away to the other tanks, to me SB DRK was clunky and unfun that's just my opinion on it I switched to WAR in Sigmascape but this iteration of ShB DRK I enjoy. I like how it plays, I like the QoL stuff that we got and it only needs minor tweaks and it'd make it better I just won't agree with you and I plan on raiding Eden Savage as a DRK.

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Originally Posted by Awful

And that's your opinion, if anything DRK lost the most from HW > SB where it became something lesser of itself DA spam,all of its old moves Low Blow, Dark Dance Reprisal were stripped away to the other tanks, to me SB DRK was clunky and unfun that's just my opinion on it I switched to WAR in Sigmascape but this iteration of ShB DRK I enjoy. I like how it plays, I like the QoL stuff that we got and it only needs minor tweaks and it'd make it better I just won't agree with you and I plan on raiding Eden Savage as a DRK.

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im not agaisnt you opinion of what is fun for you or not, you are having fun with current DRK? it's pretty fine, but i consider the argument of DRK don't have a gameplay identity anymore pretty valid if we compared the job to his older versions thats all. if you consider DRK lose more on SB can be discuss but we obviously lose the rest this expansion instead of getting closer to HW as we asked and it's a pretty valid complaing since we can argue that we know or we don't know what we want for the job but if everyone (relative) says HW the best i consider that was a pretty clear course of action independent of the other feedback and a good excuse for reproach the devs for this rework that it's making all this drama that hasn't been see before.

Oh man...where do I start lol.

So, first off, the fact that DRK plays too much like Warrior IS a bad thing and a valid complaint, what's the point of having an entirely different class if things feel too similar? Classes should have distinct identities. I've also seen MUCH more complaints and suggestions than what you're describing, but I'll tell you what: I'll give you the benefit and just assume that you haven't seen said posts.

Secondly, I'm not gonna argue with you about DRK itself, because it's obvious that you and I will just not see eye to eye on it. It's a waste of time. For example, the fact that you're really gonna sit here and say that DRK still has an identity and that it only needs "minor tweaks" is completely crazy to me. So, I just won't discuss it with you.
And okay, cool. I don't doubt that you're experienced with DRK. DRK was my main before this ShB nonsense, I put so many hours into it it's actually sad, lol. And I've put plenty of time into its atrocious ShB rework, so stop trying to make it seem like I don't know what I'm talking about.

And man...take a seat my friend. I'm not sure what the hell you're using to stalk me, but it doesn't work as well as you think. I have taken DRK through Inno Ex, and even taught some of my DRK friends Inno Ex. On top of that, I have 100+ clears of Suzaku Ex on DRK back when it was relevant content, as well a good amount of Seiryu clears back when it was relevant .You reallyy gotta stop trying to talk down to me like I'm some greenhorn or something. Who do you think you are man?

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Originally Posted by TheForce

And man...take a seat my friend. I'm not sure what the hell you're using to stalk me, but it doesn't work as well as you think. I have taken DRK through Inno Ex, and even taught some of my DRK friends Inno Ex. On top of that, I have 100+ clears of Suzaku Ex on DRK back when it was relevant content, as well a good amount of Seiryu clears back when it was relevant .You reallyy gotta stop trying to talk down to me like I'm some greenhorn or something. Who do you think you are man?

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Not stalking you but alright make those claims, I was gonna have an actual discussion with you but you came back with whatever this is so I'll just leave it at this, we are not gonna see eye to eye on this until something drastic changes people actually like how a class plays vs what others think shocker I know right? I've been playing DRK since HW I'm not saying I'm better I just have experience on it and people are really throwing this whole DRK thing out of context its making the forums a truly toxic place.

I'm just a DRK main that cares about the job, minor tweaks is what it needs with Dark Mind/Living Dead being modified that's my opinion and I'll stand by it just because you don't like what it is doesn't mean I can't enjoy it, people want DRK and its story to be retconned? Seriously that's how far people are going. I've already said what is need of changes but I guess I'll go over them with you:

-Living dead needs to be changed worse tank CD in the game atm make it 50% of your hp not 100%, it's a void of resources
- Mana gains should be 1000, they're 1000 in PvP so just make it for both, easy fix
- Dark Mind make it like RI/Heart of Stone that way it's useful for magic and physical because if you've noticed E4 is all physical and E3 the TB is physical even though it's a squirt gun
- TBN it's good for it's mitigation, horrible for its resource cost as no other tank uses its own DPS resources for defense

That's all it needs from my point of view, also no I don't think you're a greenhorn dunno why you're putting words in my mouth I just noticed you hadn't ran anything like Titania/Innoc EX or Eden, they're not hard but having a DRK that knows their class/optimized would have more merit but oh well.

I think I'll take a break from the forums and just keep playing DRK people like you are the reason why even if I post the gripes you immediately become hostile even though my statement wasn't directed at the people who make meaningful conversations because that's subjective to each person, but having the same people complain day in, day out really gets grating.

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Originally Posted by Rakshazi

I don't get it. Why do the NORMAL people have to suffer loss of the job identity so some dum... eh.. mentaly challenged would play the job for AESTHETICKS??!

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Liking a job for its aesthetics is not mentally challenged, and "mentally challenged" is an even more offensive way to say it than "dumb" because you're insulting people with legitimate disabilities on top of being a jerk. Take your ableism somewhere else. It has no place here.

You said what you don't like about DRK but you made ZERO effort to provide constructive criticism, what is your grand solution to fix DRK mr genius? "I don't like A, B, or C!! but I don't have a clue on how to improve it!"

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Disapointed they also didn't rethink the Blood Gauge. IMO DRK did not need this widget in SB, and they still do not need it in ShB. Blood actions (LS BS Q) could just be procs or stacks like Bard Repertoire stacks, placed inside the DS widget.

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That's pretty much every tank gauge. You could just let WAR stack up to 10 Wrath and put Sheltron+Intervention on a 2-stage shared cooldown like all the gap closers or True North are on and get rid of those gauges entirely too. I pretty sure GNB could also just have stacks. They just wanted tanks to feel included when DPS and WHM got shiny new gauges and I do appreciate that we weren't left out. At least now we can minimize the gauges down to just a bar so it doesn't take up too much space on the screen.

Actually, even a lot of DPS could probably get rid of the gauge, it's clear some jobs were designed for it (ex. DNC) and some it was just tacked on (ex. MNK).

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tl;dr my issue is with blood itself..

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Okay, I see what you mean in that regard and for the most part agreed.

There's a million different things the devs could have done to lean into DRK having a burst window besides copying another class. It defeats the purpose of having different jobs, right? I feel like if the trend of DRK being a WAR clone, except one expansion behind, continues then we've already seen what we have to look forward to. I wouldn't be opposed to a blood combo or something other than current delirium. It lacks ingenuity, from my prospective, and I was hoping for more depth.