[Spoilers] Eden Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

This. While most ppl were ooh-ing and aaah-ing at the transition animation I was cursing the dev team for doing this AGAIN, because my dive stacks went poof. If savage has it my friends stream is gonna be filled with my dulcet shrieks of rage as I call them every name under the sun.

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With things like thios and all the boss jumping around moves, I'm convinced that SE hates melee classes.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Titan needs a (lenient) enrage to block 30 minute battles of attrition.

When I count my 20th outgoing raise, the party should've needed to restart a long time ago.

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lol
I have mixed feelings but I know what you mean.
My party didn't... uhh """wipe""" technically, but let's just say that it was the first time I've seen three lv3 healer limit breaks in a single attempt.

I haven't read the rest of the thread, since I am only just starting the Eden raids, but hearing one of my favourite tracks from FF8 "Blue Fields" really made me smile :)

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

I think the raids are too easy. Every random group managed to get the kill after just 1 or 2 tries. This was nice content for one DAY, but not for 3 months. Too many mechanics are nonlethal and basically fluff damage to entertain healers that dont want to DPS.

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Why do you think savage and ultimate is a thing? And there will always be complainers willing to complain about anything. E4N is quite hard blind considering we wiped a dozen times across my two clears so you are definitely wrong there.

I enjoyed the fights, but they really need to work on the presentation of these raids. They have gotten completely incoherent with the rest of the game.

The main ShB story did a fantastic job setting up the purpose of the dungeons, trials and other fights and the settings made sense and fit the world. The outcomes had a huge impact on the world, changing the landscape of the zones. Frankly when they announced that Eden would have a bigger impact on the main story, I expected a lot more impact on the world than a lonely instanced camp. And there is almost no context for these fights. It was basically "surprise we went inside Eden. Surprise there is Eden Prime in some room(?!). No wait now we are outside on the back of Eden. No wait its a holodeck of reimaged primals...what? Where even are we?!"

I am a savage raider at the core and I greatly appreciate the work that goes into the fights and mechanics themselves; but they really need to take a step back and look at Coil again and see what made those great. It just wasn't about the cool fights, but how those zones were integrated into the world, how the arena shapes and locations actually fit in the lore and how the boss choices actually made sense to progress the overall story. ShB raiding being a bunch of boss rush arena fights...again...is going to be pretty disappointing, especially with how well they progressed the game with ShBs MSQ.

I really love the raids. The fights were extremely cool - it's so fun to see new takes on the old primals (the landslides though... the landslides...xD ). And the story looks very interesting, it makes me very curious to see the rest! I'm only disappointed that we didn't get to see Urianger perform his summing ritual even once! I would have loved to see it.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

I enjoyed the fights, but they really need to work on the presentation of these raids. They have gotten completely incoherent with the rest of the game.

The main ShB story did a fantastic job setting up the purpose of the dungeons, trials and other fights and the settings made sense and fit the world. The outcomes had a huge impact on the world, changing the landscape of the zones. Frankly when they announced that Eden would have a bigger impact on the main story, I expected a lot more impact on the world than a lonely instanced camp. And there is almost no context for these fights. It was basically "surprise we went inside Eden. Surprise there is Eden Prime in some room(?!). No wait now we are outside on the back of Eden. No wait its a holodeck of reimaged primals...what? Where even are we?!"

I am a savage raider at the core and I greatly appreciate the work that goes into the fights and mechanics themselves; but they really need to take a step back and look at Coil again and see what made those great. It just wasn't about the cool fights, but how those zones were integrated into the world, how the arena shapes and locations actually fit in the lore and how the boss choices actually made sense to progress the overall story. ShB raiding being a bunch of boss rush arena fights...again...is going to be pretty disappointing, especially with how well they progressed the game with ShBs MSQ.

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The Empty comprises 90% of the First. They can only do so much when it comes to connecting arenas with a premise that involves flying over that much of the world.

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Originally Posted by ZellosWilder

if they were going for lets restore the light flooded area they should of made it so you could explore the area more or make a complete new zone/area where it starts out as a blank canvas and slowly the colours and features return as you complete through eden.

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That is literally what they did.

It was a great 2 hour content xD. lol.

I just got done farming the minion from the 4th boss. Had to kill him 10 times before I won it so I'm pretty familiar with the fight.

Because there is no enrage I am able to carry groups as long as 1 tank stays alive getting 1st or 2nd attempt kills with anywhere between 7 - 23 deaths during the pull where we win. My highest so far has been 23 deaths on a 1st attempt with everyone new to the fight except me.

23 deaths and we still won the fight. The entire party died except me and the tank and I hardcast rez'd them back to life 2 times, then healer LB'd a third time. Fight lasted 12m 30s.

Eden normal mode is too easy maybe? Should I be able to carry groups through the fight with 15, 19, and 23 deaths during the pull? I mean it's fun so I'm legitimately unsure LOL.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The Empty comprises 90% of the First. They can only do so much when it comes to connecting arenas with a premise that involves flying over that much of the world.

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They could do plenty better. Edens scale is arbitrary and could have been made plenty large enough to encompass the entire expansions raids while allowing for proper interconnects.

They could have started by having you actually approach and explore Eden directly rather than interacting with it from a massive distance via a randomly placed aetherite crystal. The first boss could have been a proxy guardian outside the entrance to Eden and then could have progressed all the raid tiers with further exploration of Eden and discovery of its nature.

Instead they just lay it all out for you and jump right into it. Again, it’s pretty disappointing to not see some improvements in this area of the game when they did such a fantastic job with ShB overall.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

I have mixed feelings about the raids just being new versions of primals we've fought before. I kind of like the "remix" designs and mechanics, but I also feel a little like I'd have rather seen all new bosses.

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I'm tired of this as well. What's worse is the 3rd and 4th fights have mostly recycled mechanics of the earlier versions with just 1 or 2 new ways to handle them. The 4th boss would have been nearly a carbon copy of the early version of him if he didn't turn into a tank. This seems like they are running out of ideas. SE, please spend some of the money we give you to develop new boss fights.

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Originally Posted by GrandpaPjs

I just got done farming the minion from the 4th boss. Had to kill him 10 times before I won it so I'm pretty familiar with the fight.

Because there is no enrage I am able to carry groups as long as 1 tank stays alive getting 1st or 2nd attempt kills with anywhere between 7 - 23 deaths during the pull where we win. My highest so far has been 23 deaths on a 1st attempt with everyone new to the fight except me.

23 deaths and we still won the fight. The entire party died except me and the tank and I hardcast rez'd them back to life 2 times, then healer LB'd a third time. Fight lasted 12m 30s.

Eden normal mode is too easy maybe? Should I be able to carry groups through the fight with 15, 19, and 23 deaths during the pull? I mean it's fun so I'm legitimately unsure LOL.

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~23 deaths and too easy seem rather odd juxtaposed to one another even within context of what was happening. Their deaths may have come from stuff they shouldn't have been dying to but still on one hand its easy because you can recover from ~23 deaths, on the other hand the fight caused ~23 deaths. Had there been an enrage that likely would have been several full wipes.

Eden is a big step backwards in terms of quality after a great story with the MSQ. And they need to stop doing raids which are just a kind of "boss rush" i mean just one boss after another.
Where are the Bahamut feels ? Where you felt like you were really exploring something and undercovering mysteries ? Eden's heart looks like a copy paste of Omega's room.

Fights are cool though.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

That is literally what they did.

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read what I said, I said complete new zone/area this isn't what they did... they put a small instanced camp its not a complete area like the others... example like the tempest, lakeland etc

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

~23 deaths and too easy seem rather odd juxtaposed to one another even within context of what was happening. Their deaths may have come from stuff they shouldn't have been dying to but still on one hand its easy because you can recover from ~23 deaths, on the other hand the fight caused ~23 deaths. Had there been an enrage that likely would have been several full wipes.

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It was their first attempt on the boss so it's understandable that they would die even if the mechanics are easy to handle. Them dying a lot in this context doesn't make the fight hard I don't think, maybe? What did you think of Eden's difficulty? I beat every boss in the 1st and 2nd attempt with pugs, but only farmed the 4th one since I got loot at the end of every other boss.

I like it more than Omega normal so far, just in that it punishes you for being dumb more.

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Originally Posted by ZellosWilder

read what I said, I said complete new zone/area this isn't what they did... they put a small instanced camp its not a complete area like the others... example like the tempest, lakeland etc

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You expect them to add another 6 zones for a raid? That, uh, that’d be a new one.

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Originally Posted by Lunafreya

Why do you think savage and ultimate is a thing? And there will always be complainers willing to complain about anything. E4N is quite hard blind considering we wiped a dozen times across my two clears so you are definitely wrong there.

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Thanks for proving my point for me. A dozen wipes for 2 full clears on launch day of the main endgame content for the largest part of the playerbase is far too easy. If you wiped that much you probably shouldnt have been able to clear it all on first day. Coil was good difficulty.
Also, the playerbase will never become better if instead the content is always dumbed down to the level of people just kinda clicking skills with their mouse, dodging most stuff, not using consumables, and alt-tabbing out occasionally during the fight to fix their playlist. We need moderate DPS checks, lethal mechanics that matter. I see DPS just stand in AOEs because they dont care, they dont die from it, the healers will cover it, and they just put up their little BLM tent to camp that spot.

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Originally Posted by Conando

You expect them to add another 6 zones for a raid? That, uh, that’d be a new one.

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never said 6...? where are you getting 6 from? 1 new/zone area, yes players shouldn't expect the bare minimum which is what they done for Shadowbringers.

"The Empty" is laziness for a zone I'm sorry but it is just a pointless filler in between going into eden for the fight.

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Originally Posted by GrandpaPjs

It was their first attempt on the boss so it's understandable that they would die even if the mechanics are easy to handle. Them dying a lot in this context doesn't make the fight hard I don't think, maybe? What did you think of Eden's difficulty? I beat every boss in the 1st and 2nd attempt with pugs, but only farmed the 4th one since I got loot at the end of every other boss.

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Feel my perspective is a bit skewed as I've only done each floor once and with my FC. Only fight that caused any sort of hiccup was Titan as I wasn't expecting the tank mode. None of the runs I did resulted in anywhere close to 23 deaths though so even that doesn't really compare. Not saying you found it difficult but I'm sure from their perceptive those who died to contribute to those 23 deaths you had to raise might have. Overall as far as normal modes go I feel mechanics wise its at least entertaining and would say its bout where I expected it to be. Made our FC healer cry when I suggested Savage Titan turn into a sky tank that would just drop on top of her.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Made our FC healer cry when I suggested Savage Titan turn into a sky tank that would just drop on top of her.

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Fair points!

Also, LMAO!!!!! Savage Titan requires 1 healer death every sky tank phase so save your swiftcast or bring a Rezmage!

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Originally Posted by ZellosWilder

read what I said, I said complete new zone/area this isn't what they did... they put a small instanced camp its not a complete area like the others... example like the tempest, lakeland etc

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It's a new area we haven't explored. You're saying you wanted a seventh open area, which from what I remember is pretty much already planned, with the Eureka-like content.

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Originally Posted by ZellosWilder

never said 6...? where are you getting 6 from? 1 new/zone area, yes players shouldn't expect the bare minimum which is what they done for Shadowbringers.

"The Empty" is laziness for a zone I'm sorry but it is just a pointless filler in between going into eden for the fight.

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So what would you have us do in your version of the Empty? Because to be honest, what they did with the Eden story got the job done, it showed you that the areas outside of Norvrandt were recovering due to the aether from reliving past fights based off the elements.

I wonder if that artwork of the goth lass with the hammer is the oracle of darkness? If so I want that outfit in mogstation GIMMIOE DEM NEWROCK HEELS SE! *ahem* I really enjoyed the fights. Titan was a blast even if i did spend most it on my back.

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Originally Posted by Imbrium

This. While most ppl were ooh-ing and aaah-ing at the transition animation I was cursing the dev team for doing this AGAIN, because my dive stacks went poof. If savage has it my friends stream is gonna be filled with my dulcet shrieks of rage as I call them every name under the sun.

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This is what i had going on in my head:
https://media0.giphy.com/media/oGAM2...rid=giphy.webp

I know this is being faithful to ff8 eden but i hope it is not in savage.

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Originally Posted by Kobalos

I wonder if that artwork of the goth lass with the hammer is the oracle of darkness? If so I want that outfit in mogstation GIMMIOE DEM NEWROCK HEELS SE! *ahem* I really enjoyed the fights. Titan was a blast even if i did spend most it on my back.

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It's definitely Gaia. I assume she'll change out of her knightly outfit once she regains consciousness and pick up the hammer from the Crystarium contact, especially since we left her greatsword on top of Eden.

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Originally Posted by Tinibou

Eden is a big step backwards in terms of quality after a great story with the MSQ. And they need to stop doing raids which are just a kind of "boss rush" i mean just one boss after another.
Where are the Bahamut feels ? Where you felt like you were really exploring something and undercovering mysteries ? Eden's heart looks like a copy paste of Omega's room.

Fights are cool though.

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And it’s dead, players rather go through a boss rush then explore a person dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

They really need to stop adding 1 shot mechanics to raids with uncoordinated groups, it just doesn't work, 1 shot mechanics were fun in 2010 but not anymore, I like to actually play the game.

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Really? People are having difficulties with these raids... Only one i faced with fails was E2 mainly due to it's deliberately confusing mechanic. And for E3-4 the entire raid can recover as long as one tank and healer is alive.

Loved to hear FF8 musics with remix and actual primal with remix. Its really cool musics. The last boss was funny in his little car xD

I liked it even if they're reusing the first primals. I'm guessing some of these are going to be PUG destroyers even after a while and i'm looking forward to having PTSD again in Savage.

With that said... regarding

Titan

At least we got the loincloth right.

I guess it's trendy to post how easy things are still. Not really surprised there. I do not support the 'make it harder' camp either. You got savage, so chill.

One shot mechanics aren't skillful mechanics, it's cheap mechanics.

Aside from that, I found the raid as a whole pretty fun.

Thoughts about future Eden fights?
I’m thinking…

E5: something unique or at least not a primal
E6 and E7: Garuda and Ramuh
E8: another unique thing

E9 and E10: Ifrit and Shiva
E11: Griever, to balance the aspects of light and dark, aspects of Sineater and Voidsent, like a demonic winged lion.
E12: Gaiamecia

I liked the fights (my favorite raid since ARR) because they had fanservice in it but one that makes sense. It also felt much more part of the story. I did not like the music of the last two fight.

I am also not a fan of one shot mechanics, but seemingly I had good enough groups that we did not have that much problems and on the last fight we had one person that already beat it and that later explained some of the stuff to us. If you understand the few mechanics they are quite easy imo.

I also liked that you could see the changes our actions did right away.

(But man does our WoL have bad memory or bad concentration..)

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Originally Posted by FengZhou

I guess it's trendy to post how easy things are still. Not really surprised there. I do not support the 'make it harder' camp either. You got savage, so chill.

One shot mechanics aren't skillful mechanics, it's cheap mechanics.

Aside from that, I found the raid as a whole pretty fun.

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yeah, an entire patch done in 1 day is truly great difficulty design. Oh, and it hands out gear like the EX primals, too!

Should have made this about Titania EX baseline difficulty. Easy enough that PUGs can handle it, hard enough to not be autofarm the moment it drops.
FFXIV has a major major problem with content being outdated at release already. This was a chance to solve this. They didnt.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

yeah, an entire patch done in 1 day is truly great difficulty design. Oh, and it hands out gear like the EX primals, too!

Should have made this about Titania EX baseline difficulty. Easy enough that PUGs can handle it, hard enough to not be autofarm the moment it drops.
FFXIV has a major major problem with content being outdated at release already. This was a chance to solve this. They didnt.

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Its not outdated because we need to farm the gear. Normal mode is designed to be cleared in a day however so no problems there.

Savage is designed to last a lot longer and the 24 man raids are designed to be a step above normal mode 8 man raids in difficulty so the Nier raid is probably what alot of us casuals are looking forward to.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

Should have made this about Titania EX baseline difficulty. Easy enough that PUGs can handle it, hard enough to not be autofarm the moment it drops.
FFXIV has a major major problem with content being outdated at release already. This was a chance to solve this. They didnt.

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you really overestimate the competency of the casual DF player. there is no way these players would clear this normal-raid at the difficulty of Titania-Ex and they would complain instantly. And being able to be cleared in 1-2 pulls is not outdated or autofarm...its loot is 1 per week so you cant even farm it yet. the DF groups i played with have a hard enough time dealing with the mechanics, we do not want to burden them with extreme or savage mechanics. Just wait for savage...

Its normal mode, its supposed to be cleared in a day or too. The fights were very good, the music, omg. Probably the best raid they made so far. Didn't saw any one shot mechanics, but anyway the fights was so well designed. Really wanna see savage.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

They really need to stop adding 1 shot mechanics to raids with uncoordinated groups, it just doesn't work, 1 shot mechanics were fun in 2010 but not anymore, I like to actually play the game.

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Nah. When the entire party wiped due to Titan's Go Kart mode, we laughed and learned to stay on the other side. I enjoyed learning the mechanics with a blind party and figuring out his grid system. I'll surely remember the fight over just getting by. You are actually playing the game, through trial and error. That in itself is the enjoyment of the earliest game design and within classics. It's what pushes raid progression. For Savage anyways.

I think if you want smooth sailing you should consider another game that lets you make 100 mistakes with no punishment. It should stay in XIV.

Fights are really good, music is great and story interesting, damn those randos than can't understand easy mechanics thought.

But, they are litteral trials they are nothing like raids and I kinda find this kind of insulting to pretend otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

I enjoyed the fights, but they really need to work on the presentation of these raids. They have gotten completely incoherent with the rest of the game.

The main ShB story did a fantastic job setting up the purpose of the dungeons, trials and other fights and the settings made sense and fit the world. The outcomes had a huge impact on the world, changing the landscape of the zones. Frankly when they announced that Eden would have a bigger impact on the main story, I expected a lot more impact on the world than a lonely instanced camp. And there is almost no context for these fights. It was basically "surprise we went inside Eden. Surprise there is Eden Prime in some room(?!). No wait now we are outside on the back of Eden. No wait its a holodeck of reimaged primals...what? Where even are we?!"

I am a savage raider at the core and I greatly appreciate the work that goes into the fights and mechanics themselves; but they really need to take a step back and look at Coil again and see what made those great. It just wasn't about the cool fights, but how those zones were integrated into the world, how the arena shapes and locations actually fit in the lore and how the boss choices actually made sense to progress the overall story. ShB raiding being a bunch of boss rush arena fights...again...is going to be pretty disappointing, especially with how well they progressed the game with ShBs MSQ.

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I have to agree with you here.
Each new expansion has gotten worse in regards to the boss locations. I don't mind too much, but it would be nice to have a raid that actually feels like your progressing through a dangerous, yet consistent, environment.
I felt the Alliance Raids in SB did this fairly well.

In fact, this aspect is one of the (very few) things that WoW still excels at.