OH GOD NO...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

Not gonna lie, I'd much rather have Diadem back. That's how much I hate Eureka.

If they do intend on tying the relic into it though, I just hope they dumb it down compared to Eureka and keep remembering that the relic is always intended to be the weapon path option for casual players (yes tryhards, I know they're BiS, but you have savage weapons #dealwithit).

---

And it is still for casual players, the relic does not require anything more than time like the other relics, only that people end up accustomed to that in HW the relic will be completed without doing anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

The vocal players, in this case, are very much a minority. Eureka was well received by many players and is consistently active when I enter any of the maps. If you and the other critics do not like it, that's fine - but many do and have no issue with resources being allocated towards such content.

---

I've seen the opposite ingame.

The majority of my fc, linkshells and friendlist didn't bother and quit Eureka at Pagos or before. I've very rarely ever seen a "Eureka is really fun!" comment ingame, but countless complaints and rants. When Anemos launched and people tried it out, there were lots of full 200 player instances, you could hop between them searching for Fates, but Pagos and Pyros barely fill 2 instances at peak time and this is pulling players from across the datacentre.

Pyros was admittedly an improvement, if they continue to polish that they might make something of it. But they're playing a risky game. There are a lot of mixed feelings and bitter tastes over Eureka, they'd very likely take a moderate sub hit if they messed it up.

Will they ever learn and/or listen? What am I saying... Of course they wont. So, we'll see another two years where a big chunk of resources will go towards content that a big part of the playerbase seems to utterly hate, or at the very least doesn't enjoy. If the resources used for this content were minimal (like Ultimate) and it wouldn't tie something like the relics, it would be alright. However, we've seen during the whole 4.x patch cycle what having Eureka means if we compare it to 2.x or 3.x. This content wasn't well received in HW, and it hasn't been a success in SB either (no, people doing it against their will doesn't count), so why do they insist in trying to force us to like it?

Also, to those that dislike the content but still play it, STOP DOING IT. By doing so you're giving them more numbers so that they keep making this stuff. I know that you feel left out of the rewards if you don't participate, but do you really want to give them "fake" numbers so that this trend continues and you have to keep playing something that you don't enjoy?

I'm one of the people who has put hundreds of hours into Eureka, inflating the engagement metrics, yet still hated every minute of it. I only did it because I wanted a few items that dropped out of lootboxes and whose market prices were ridiculous (as in as much as a large plot in a prime location). I left as soon as I got most of what I wanted and gave up on what I couldn't reasonably justify suffering for anymore (/shiver), but the fact that I did get rewarded in the end does NOT retroactively improve the awful experience I had. I will forever see it as a forced chore and necessary evil. Emphasis on evil. It's basically like working a job you hate but you have to do because it pays the bills. Technically you have the choice to quit it, but then you can't sustain your MMO addiction anymore. Except in this case I'm the one paying SE's bills which makes it even worse.

Anyone who likes that kind of content, I'm happy that Pyros made you happy. I hope Eureka 2.0 will be exactly what you're looking for. I think that the game has room for all kinds of content that caters to different players and playstyles. Just because I don't enjoy something doesn't give me any right to deny it to others. However, I do believe I have the right to complain if I'm being reeled into content I don't like by exclusive incentives that don't really make sense being there and have nothing to do with the content itself (is there anything about the Pyros hairstyle that would make it out of place if obtained anywhere else? No? Then it doesn't need to be in Pyros).

Personally, I'll be fine with Eureka 2.0 only if it doesn't gate unrelated cosmetics behind it. That's it, that's the only thing I ask. A mount that looks like a Eureka mob? By all means, that fits right in, no problem with that. A hairstyle or emote that has nothing to do with Eureka specifically? No, keep it out of Eureka. Make Eureka-type content enjoyable on its OWN merits and it will succeed. Force into it people who have no business being there and they will, justifiably, complain and sour everyone else's mood.

But regardless of how enjoyable they make it for the target demographic, it will never be enjoyable to me so I don't ever want to have a reason to participate in that kind of activity again. My problem with Eureka is fundamental. The type of gameplay it was designed around is completely, fundamentally, irreconcilably incompatible with me. I play FF14 because it's a modern MMO that respects my limited time and doesn't skimp out on QoL features for arbitrary reasons. Eureka is a callback to the old school style of MMO built upon RNG wrapped in grind wrapped in obtuseness, and while that's a combination of features that some people might genuinely love, I do not, I will not, and I don't want to be coerced into it by arbitrary reward bait.

And just to be consistent, I feel the same way about PvP. I hate that hairstyles, mounts and emotes that have NOTHING to do with PvP get put in the PvP vendor for the express purpose of strong-arming people who are otherwise not interested in PvP into populating Frontlines. But at least PvP has two redeeming factors over Eureka - no lootbox RNG and no level-gating. Every match gives a guaranteed amount of wolf marks and every item costs a set amount, so at least the progression is predictable and I can calculate roughly how long I have to suffer. I also don't have to spend hundred(s) of hours just to unlock each Frontline map in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yshnal

Will they ever learn and/or listen? What am I saying... Of course they wont. So, we'll see another two years where a big chunk of resources will go towards content that a big part of the playerbase seems to utterly hate, or at the very least doesn't enjoy. If the resources used for this content were minimal (like Ultimate) and it wouldn't tie something like the relics, it would be alright. However, we've seen during the whole 4.x patch cycle what having Eureka means if we compare it to 2.x or 3.x. This content wasn't well received in HW, and it hasn't been a success in SB either (no, people doing it against their will doesn't count), so why do they insist in trying to force us to like it?

Also, to those that dislike the content but still play it, STOP DOING IT. By doing so you're giving them more numbers so that they keep making this stuff. I know that you feel left out of the rewards if you don't participate, but do you really want to give them "fake" numbers so that this trend continues and you have to keep playing something that you don't enjoy?

---

If the game was defined by what the great majority wants, this would not be Final Fantasy, it would be a Second Life where we only worry about buying clothes and taking pictures.

The Ultimate content is made for very few people, we deleted it? With the same pvp, do we deleted it? The game has to keep offering content for everyone, what the development team has to start doing is stop sacrificing content to have another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

Not gonna lie, I'd much rather have Diadem back. That's how much I hate Eureka.

---

This. Diadem 2.0 was actually fun, even if it was woefully shortsighted. ("Hey, let's release level 60 content with level 60 rewards immediately before raising the level cap to 70! That's content that is sure to last!")

If Diadem 1.0 hadn't soured the entire concept, and if they had actually kept supporting Diadem 2.0, I could see it being very successful content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I've seen the opposite ingame.

The majority of my fc, linkshells and friendlist didn't bother and quit Eureka at Pagos or before. I've very rarely ever seen a "Eureka is really fun!" comment ingame, but countless complaints and rants. When Anemos launched and people tried it out, there were lots of full 200 player instances, you could hop between them searching for Fates, but Pagos and Pyros barely fill 2 instances at peak time and this is pulling players from across the datacentre.

Pyros was admittedly an improvement, if they continue to polish that they might make something of it. But they're playing a risky game. There are a lot of mixed feelings and bitter tastes over Eureka, they'd very likely take a moderate sub hit if they messed it up.

---

The majority of my FC hates Eureka. There are a few diehards who enjoy it, but it's gotten to the point that my FC leader tries desperately to quell the Eureka hate because of the legitimate fear that people will quit the game over it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nayout

If the game was defined by what the great majority wants, this would not be Final Fantasy, it would be a Second Life where we only worry about buying clothes and taking pictures.

The Ultimate content is made for very few people, we erase it? With the same pvp, do we erase it? The game has to keep offering content for everyone, what the development team has to start doing is stop sacrificing content to have another.

---

Re-read what you quoted, I even mentioned Ultimate up there. I don't know where you got that Second Life stuff and all the rest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yshnal

Re-read what you quoted, I even mentioned Ultimate up there. I don't know where you got that Second Life stuff and all the rest.

---

You found that you should not use resources of something that many hate or do not do when first:

-We do not have any information about the development of these areas or the reason why we do not have any more dungeons, which is why you are speculating about something that only the development team knows.

-The development team should not sacrifice content to make another.

-If we only use the resources in what most of the players do or like, we would only have cosmetics or dungeons that end up boring you a month after doing them.

The whole team after this game must listen to the players but at the same time not to do so much, to avoid situations like Blizzard and Wow that by listening a lot to the players they lowered the difficulty of the Zandalari dungeons in Cataclysm and by not listening to it. doing the aberration of BFA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

Koji: "We are currently working on developing Eureka like content for 5.0"

Please no... stop... no more Eureka... ever... please...

---

If they will not force relic in to it then ok.but it's on the people that played it even when hate it more that on see .

Eureka is why I didn't have a relic in SB. And the lack of a good weapon eventually made me fall behind in the gearing process and quit playing for a while, falling behind even further. I'm feeling very, very conflicted about this next expansion. There's a lot of interesting stuff, but also a lot of... well... this.

As long as it isn't anything like Pagos...whatever I guess. Anemos and Pyros really wasn't bad. Hopefully Hydatos will be alright as well. I'd prefer that they abandon the concept of Diadem/Eureka entirely though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

Koji: "We are currently working on developing Eureka like content for 5.0"

Please no... stop... no more Eureka... ever... please...

---

Sorry if I bring the OP quote, but is there some source for this? Like when he mentions the quote in the fanfest? I didn't follow it and I wanted to be sure about it so I can tell my friends about it.

Oh God now we don't want Eureka because running the same 2.0 dungeons over and over and over again was more fun...............

OP you really need to learn to put proper titles to your threads instead of just these two or three word liners that suggest nothing about what the discussion is about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riardon

Oh God now we don't want Eureka because running the same 2.0 dungeons over and over and over again was more fun...............

---

I know, right? And not the mention the horrible RNG with Atmas' FATE grind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nayout

You found that you should not use resources of something that many hate or do not do when first:

-We do not have any information about the development of these areas or the reason why we do not have any more dungeons, which is why you are speculating about something that only the development team knows.

-The development team should not sacrifice content to make another.

-If we only use the resources in what most of the players do or like, we would only have cosmetics or dungeons that end up boring you a month after doing them.

The whole team after this game must listen to the players but at the same time not to do so much, to avoid situations like Blizzard and Wow that by listening a lot to the players they lowered the difficulty of the Zandalari dungeons in Cataclysm and by not listening to it. doing the aberration of BFA.

---

I said that it's not okay, in my opinion (and apparently some others' too), to use this many resources -which are limited- on a kind of content that a big part of the playerbase doesn't enjoy, not that it should be removed. Especially when it has been proven time and again that we don't like it, and that most people do it "forced" due to what they linked to it (like relics).

To word it differently with an example, it would be as if Ultimate took a big chunk of resources, making us give up on other content like Eureka has, as stated by the devs themselves (unless you know of any other "never done before" content that we have gotten during SB, as they referenced it when talking about why we were going to have less dungeons and all), just for something that only a minority truly enjoys. Would that mean that Ultimate should go away? No, at all. But making it the main focus of a development cycle and trying to force people to play it would make plenty of players disappointed, and with reason.

Some people should remember what made 2.0 successful after the mess that 1.0 was, because doing what they've been doing for quite some time lately wasn't any of it. In fact, what they've been doing is the absolute opposite of what they said that they had learned from the original flop. Games are meant to be fun, and I rather go play something that I like rather than spend time on something that I don't enjoy. That's where you, the devs, and many others got it wrong: enjoying the content should be the main focus of playing it, instead of trying to lure players with whatever reward (and I'm not saying that there should be no reward, just that making it above "fun" is bad). That's why there's plenty of grinding games that are fun to play.

Also, listening to the playerbase is good, not bad. The problem with WoW and Blizzard, and FFXIV lately sometimes, is who they listen to. Or more specifically, how they take what people say. There's plenty of cases of players asking for or suggesting something, and the devs doing it the other way around while saying "this is what you guys asked". Eureka is one of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

Please no... stop... no more Eureka... ever... please...

---

As long as people keep running it, they will keep thinking it's popular. Folk's would have to organize a boycott of it to get them to stop making it.

Bu everytime I go to Kugane, the largest crowd I see is around the spot for getting groups for Eureka. Somebody obviously loves this content.

For the love of all that is good NO! I could play Anemos and enjoy it but from Pagos and beyond, it is a piece of content that has overstayed it’s welcome.

I don’t want to go through it again. I am sick of it. The death trap areas, the death penalties, the planet sized amounts of RNG for everything, the dull and repetitive “kill this until x happens then kill/do x and repeat” fiasco.

You know what’s the absolute worst of it? If you want anything done in Eureka you have to forego a lot of other content as getting logos, relics, crystals, etc. require dubious amounts of time. Time which could be shared with other content.

So please: NO MORE EUREKA. Please!

Anemos and Pyros were really good.
Diadem wasn't all that bad.


Some people don't like it, which is fine. But I think they're improving with every step.
(Pagos was def a learning step for them...)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riardon

Oh God now we don't want Eureka because running the same 2.0 dungeons over and over and over again was more fun...............

---

.... It is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Canadane

Some people don't like it, which is fine.

---

The thing is, if people that didn't like it were to provide constructive feedback on why they consider it bad, it could have gotten a lot better. Most of the times when you ask why they consider it bad, you get the "It's filled with RNG and grind" response. Which doesn't make sense, since AR and HW relics were far more worse in terms of grind and RNG. When Pagos was released and it received a massive backlash, the devs did consider a lot of the feedback in Pyros. So I do wish to see people discussing the issues and flaws in Eureka that can make it a far better content than what it is now and not just throw the RNG/grind card or the "If it wasn't tied to the relic, I wouldn't have done it" because a lot still go there even after getting the relic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

.... It is.

---

Nah...I got tired of spamming A1S after like the 70th run for my first anima (and I still wasn't done with the light part). I say they work on this concept and add more engaging things to do in it. More Logos-like addition please and thank you, Square.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riardon

Oh God now we don't want Eureka because running the same 2.0 dungeons over and over and over again was more fun...............

---

All 2.0 dungeons, yes even THAT one, are better content than AFKreka.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alucard135

I know, right? And not the mention the horrible RNG with Atmas' FATE grind.

---

Atma's are boring and still somehow better than Eureka too and I am loling at RNG complaints for atmas in comparison to the zones with literal loot boxes, a weapon with randomized stats, and the logos unlocks (think getting my pyros weapon cost me about 5 mil).

Eureka sucks terribly. Eureka is lucky fishing is right there to be the only thing more boring and tedious. Claims that Eureka has been well-received are ridiculous, nobody really knows what the actual reception is like, not even SE. Because I hate Eureka more than almost anything but I've still got my pyros weapon because it looked too cool to not get and I've got a second monitor so I could do fun things while being afk. Maybe more people hated it, maybe more people found it fun, who knows, who cares.

The bottom line for me is if they keep making Eurekas, as long as they don't stick weapons that glow in them, I probably won't care.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alucard135

The thing is, if people that didn't like it were to provide constructive feedback on why they consider it bad, it could have gotten a lot better. Most of the times when you ask why they consider it bad, you get the "It's filled with RNG and grind" response. Which doesn't make sense, since AR and HW relics were far more worse in terms of grind and RNG. When Pagos was released and it received a massive backlash, the devs did consider a lot of the feedback in Pyros. So I do wish to see people discussing the issues and flaws in Eureka that can make it a far better content than what it is now and not just throw the RNG/grind card or the "If it wasn't tied to the relic, I wouldn't have done it" because a lot still go there even after getting the relic.

---

I'll bite. There are several issues with Eureka that are fundamental to it and have been a problem across all of the instances. That somebody would set out to ape the feel of old school mmo's intentionally, despite all those games being fundamentally unpopular (peak player count for FF11 which was the most successful OG mmo was 550k while WoW's was 12 million) and generally reviled is a bold move.

1. Travel is complete garbage until you unlock aetherytes, at which point it becomes regular garbage and stays that way all the way up until you get mounts. A Eureka fan might say this is intentional, I would say there's a reason the rest of this game and every other game launched since 2005 isn't like this anymore.

2. Exp loss. In the year of our Lord 2019 we are dealing with exp loss. Over the course of the 3 Eureka zones I have had to eat about 7 or 8 deaths without a rez and it is crushing every time. Each death loosely represents another hour stuck in this shit zone I want nothing to do with. Pro people will claim it adds a sense of risk to the world. I do not share this feeling. All it engenders in me is anger at whatever stupid asshole placed 9 54 matangas at this chokepoint I need to get through. I do get some satisfaction from running about rezzing people because I know how much this sucks, but this definitely doesn't equal out my loathing.

3. I can't believe these developers expect their players to just run off in the middle of nowhere and grind trash. It's ridiculous. Trash is the lowest tier of content in this game but that's what they want you to do. Grind trash to spawn nm's. Grind trash for exp between nm spawns. Grind a particular trash under certain conditions to get special lockboxes. It's all boring and incredibly tiring. If FF14 were a bad game like the original EQ and FF11 and only required an average of one player input per 10 seconds, then grinding on trash would... Still be lousy to be honest. But at least it wouldn't be giving me carpal tunnel syndrome. At least there could be some socializing done which is how we used to kill time back in those old ass games. But FF14's combat just isn't slow-paced enough to support this.

4. No elemental level sync means that even if you want to grind trash like it's 1999 again, getting a party together for it is surprisingly difficult outside of specific niches once you hit max level.

5. You can't do anything else when you're in Eureka. If I want to grind atma's, I can do it while in queue for other things. If I need to grind dungeons out for dungeon atmas or light I can knock out some daily quests or do some gathering or crafting while I wait. In Eureka, you aren't doing anything except Eureka.

6. Soloing is basically impossible. Like you can do it, but you will blow through potions and the fights take awhile and the rewards are tiny and it's about as fun as fighting any other trash mobs in the over world.

7. THE STORY IS SO BAD UGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

All of this combined means that the most efficient and fun thing to do is just afk in town until an NM spawns. The risk and reward of being outside of town is heavily slanted towards just idling in town and the things you could be doing outside aren't fun anyway, at least in comparison to being afk and shitposting on these forums about how bad Eureka is, or watching something on my second screen, or playing an actually fun game on my Switch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Sorry if I bring the OP quote, but is there some source for this? Like when he mentions the quote in the fanfest? I didn't follow it and I wanted to be sure about it so I can tell my friends about it.

---

I'm afraid I do not have a time stamp for this. Koji said it when translating Yoshida at the Q and A panel in the European Fan Festival this morning. (Being the morning of 2/3/19 in the US.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alucard135

The thing is, if people that didn't like it were to provide constructive feedback on why they consider it bad, it could have gotten a lot better. Most of the times when you ask why they consider it bad, you get the "It's filled with RNG and grind" response. Which doesn't make sense, since AR and HW relics were far more worse in terms of grind and RNG. When Pagos was released and it received a massive backlash, the devs did consider a lot of the feedback in Pyros. So I do wish to see people discussing the issues and flaws in Eureka that can make it a far better content than what it is now and not just throw the RNG/grind card or the "If it wasn't tied to the relic, I wouldn't have done it" because a lot still go there even after getting the relic.

---

Why I don't like Eureka? Let's see... You have to stand around in one spot kill enemies for hours on end to level. Just like in FFXI. Except no one wants to do that boring crap so the player base created the much better NM Train, which was still boring. You stand around killing mobs you may or may not get exp off of, that you may or may not be able to hit before it dies so you end up just afking, to spawn a NM which is just a glorified FATE. No one likes FATE farming. We did it for years way before Eureka ever came out and it was boring then. Top it all off with the fact that one mob can kill you in 2 or 5 hits because of the stupid leveling system in the zone so running from one FATE to another or just to your FATE farming party is annoying. You can't solo at all cause trying to kill a mob of the same level takes forever and fighting one higher level than you is more than likely going to kill you. Pagos made this even worse cause for some reason people WANTED to stand in one spot killing things instead of the NM train so SE made the NMs take longer to spawn and when people realized standing around killing the same mob over and over SE took it's sweet time buffing Pagos. Add to that they put sleeping dragons in chock points on the map, had horrible level requirements for the teleportation crystals, Pagos ended up being even more of a chore than Anemos. Then they did Pyros. Which you do level faster and NM / FATES do spawn more often. But then they added the Logos system that was supposed to make the area more fun, but just ended in a chore to try and get the logo grams.

So yes. I love running dungeons cause to me running a dungeon feels like I'm doing something. Like I'm progressing in some small way. Like I have a goal to get to the end of the dungeon and defeat the boss / get tomes while I'm working on my relic. I'm not standing in one spot killing the same Mob over and over waiting for a FATE to spawn only to move on to the next one in some big circle. Perhaps it's just a mental thing but I will run dungeons and trials hundreds of times and be happy long before Eureka is fun to me. Since it hasn't been yet.

Why am I not surprised this is unfortunate as for me anyways I never made it past Anemos because it was so boring and bad was hoping the new relic would be something more interesting but nope more whack mobs in a boring sandbox hoping to spawn more NMs.

Thanks SE I won't be doing this relic either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

What is so great about Pyros? Sure you level faster but the crappy Logos Actions kill it for me. You can only get them from the stupid bunny chests, which is random if you get a bunny if there are to many people at the fate, random what chest you get, random what logo gram you get, and THEN it's random what logos action you get. On top of that you can only have 3 logo grams at a time. So any you make to complete your book get tossed out. Then if you still have a bunch of uses left of your logos action and you leave and reenter it's gone. Wither you had 99 casts left or 1. Then some of the stupid actions are so hard to get and combine into to make some really cool super action it gets "to good to use" syndrom. And to top it all off you don't even need logos actions in the zone. Man I HATE Eureka.

---

Incorrect, you have a 100% chance of getting logograms from Sprites of your level or higher.. You also get upgraded logograms if the sprite mutates or adapts. Every sprite that gives you logos gives 5 of them and on chain of 10 you get 10.. 15 at 15 chain. 20 at 20.. 25 at 25 and 30 at 30.

The only one required for bunnies is offensive logos which i Havnt even gotten but I've already made it to the required 30 for my weapon.. I've out item leveled the armor which is only thing you need all 50 for.. But ill still probably get it since the logos are so easy to earn.

I skipped Eureka completely. I tried it and didn't like it. I hope this isn't much of the new stuff- or there won't be much for me to play.

I enjoy the content, I like the open world grind. I prefer it over spamming dungeons and I like the extra bit of chance drops. Such as Cassie’s earrings and things of that ilk. I think it was and still is more successful than diadem and it is a relaxed way of getting weekly tomes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkdra

(think getting my pyros weapon cost me about 5 mil).

---

You're probably doing something wrong if it cost you that much, while I got it for free in just 5 days. In fact, I made over 18 mil from the stuff I got there in those 5 days. But then again, it's like ARR and HW relics never cost any gil at all right? Not everyone has DoL/DoH classes all leveled up. So they will either grind for that (much worse than grinding for bunny fates) or buy the needed items from the MB.

As for loot boxes, what do you need from them to upgrade your weapon? only logograms and specifically Fundamental and offensive ones (with the former being really easy to obtain) which you might never need if you only want the weapon to get 30 logos actions. But if you want all 50 that's still a less grind than Atmas, since 1- you don't need that much offensive logograms 2- They can be traded so people can still get them without doing the bunny fates either by selling or just free (even if you decided to buy them off, it's never a wise choice to buy them on release date, since they cost millions while now they cost less than 200K on my server).

As for the randomized stats part, the majority of casual players only want it for the looks. If someone cares for the stats that much, there's the tome and raid weapons for that. But, I applaud Yoshi P for the idea of a randomized stat weapon tbh. Because they tied it to the possibility of getting a really OP weapon and if you really want that weapon, then locking it behind RNG will not render the raid weapon useless. If it was just a mindless grind, not a lot would bother getting O12s weapons. And the light grind for this part is literally way way more easier than previous relics. With a reflect party you can fill your kettle in less than 10min. And since these stats carry on to Hydatos, it's gonna be very easy to surpass the raid weapon (which at this point of the patch it won't affect the raid content). You don't have to get 1000 substats to surpass the raid weapon. You just need 605+ which again is not needed if you're just playing casually and not a hardcore raider.

So again, the grind/RNG part in Eureka is much less than previous relics in order to get such relics. And the fact that I have enough to make more than 7 relics if I had more classes at 70, just tells me how much less of a grind it is compared to ARR and HW ones that I only did one for each and couldn't bare going through the same thing again even after the nerf.

I'm fine with exploratory missions returning, but on two big conditions:

1. They really need to introduce whatever special mechanic/gimmick the content uses early. Logos actions in Pyros are a lot of fun, but I think Eureka as a whole would have been much more warmly received if these were made available as early as Anemos.

2. They need to introduce a way to sync your character down at will, to make it easier for players to help their friends catch up. I started in Eureka a lot earlier than most of my friends, and because I was usually 10+ levels higher than they were, there wasn't really anything we could work on together in the content. When a few of us are online and want to do stuff in FF14, we never consider Eureka, because the lack of a level sync meant we couldn't actually work on the same things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Baxcel

Incorrect, you have a 100% chance of getting logograms from Sprites of your level or higher.. You also get upgraded logograms if the sprite mutates or adapts. Every sprite that gives you logos gives 5 of them and on chain of 10 you get 10.. 15 at 15 chain. 20 at 20.. 25 at 25 and 30 at 30.

The only one required for bunnies is offensive logos which i Havnt even gotten but I've already made it to the required 30 for my weapon.. I've out item leveled the armor which is only thing you need all 50 for.. But ill still probably get it since the logos are so easy to earn.

---

Except when you are level 50 sprites of the same level are hard to find or only appear on certain wind conditions. Add to that the the whole time I was in Eureka Pyros I couldn't get a single party that was grinding on Sprites.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alucard135

You're probably doing something wrong if it cost you that much, while I got it for free in just 5 days. In fact, I made over 18 mil from the stuff I got there in those 5 days. But then again, it's like ARR and HW relics never cost any gil at all right? Not everyone has DoL/DoH classes all leveled up. So they will either grind for that (much worse than grinding for bunny fates) or buy the needed items from the MB.

---

Yeah you got it for free in 5 days by grinding stupid bullshit off in the middle of nowhere. To that I say no thanks, I'll spend the 5 mil. I get that you probably only really spent 2-4 hours on it. I'd still rather spend the money than spend 2 hours or 1 hour just griding on trash in any context.

The rest of your post was 4 paragraphs that can all be summed up as, "well that RNG isn't relevant to you getting your glamour weapon and therefor it shouldn't matter" and to that I say you are wrong. It does matter. It is grating to have been in Pyros for 20ish hours and still not have gotten the yeti mount. The relic weapon may be the only reason I am in there, but every other aspect still affects my perception of the content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkdra

1. 2. 3....

---

There we go, now we have points that are actual issues with Eureka. I don't consider it to be a perfect content, so I should state that at first. As for points 2,4 and 5. I agree with you 100%. The EXP loss system is not something good for the casual player. I enjoy dark souls games but I know that not a lot of people would enjoy that kind of punishment in FF. So I agree that it shouldn't be there (although I know some that love it). The level syncing is something I've been asking for to be implemented for a long time. It would greatly help new players who wants to form a party. And being an instanced zone is also another thing I didn't like. I would have preferred it being an open world zone instead.

Now as for point 1. I really don't have anything to say about it since I'm the type that likes traveling more than just teleporting. But I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker for me if it wasn't. I can't say much what others think of this.
As for 3, if people are willing to farm dungeons for tomes, farm EX primals for 99times (someone did Suzaku for 524 times lol), and run A1s hundreds of times for light, then I wouldn't be surprised if the devs think they like it. The NM train that people came up with breathed more life in the content than chaining (Pagos was not a punishment lol). But let's ignore the NM train for now. The logos actions created another fun aspect while fighting mobs. Take a look at reflect parties where you can easily chain mobs 6 levels higher than you (and you can solo sprites very easily this way too). But hey, I wouldn't reject to them adding more fun content to do besides chaining as I suggested in another thread. Adding quests, for example, can be a good start for EXP and rewards.
For the soloing part, the content was designed as a group content (although there are ways to solo stuff). Many who liked Eureka liked it for this reason. People bashed out on BLU cuz it was said to be a solo content job.

Please, please, for the love of Zodiark SE, do not do this.
Don't take the forums or Reddit as proof. Their opinion on Eureka is not getting better because of changes made in Pyros. The ratio of praise to complaints is only getting higher because most of the playerbase is currently trying to forget that Eureka exists.
You *have* to have the real numbers on Eureka. *Have* to see how low the participation rate is. *Have* to see how many fewer people have these relics than HW's or ARR's.

I know that even if player opinion actually was unanimous, if more Eureka has been planned for Shadowbringers, it's far too late for it to not happen. But there's two things I beg:
1) If you absolutely have to tie the relic to Eureka - put in a second relic questline that never goes there! Or allow the Eureka pieces to be bought for obscene amounts of tomestones instead. I hate Eureka having destroyed my favorite solo content!
2) Prioritize other content with your resources! Make Eureka 5.0 basically re-use Eureka 4.0's maps and models, or whatever else would lower dev time. I know I'd much rather have 2 dungeons every patch - or another attempt at innovative content - or both! - than more Eureka...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkdra

Yeah you got it for free in 5 days by grinding stupid bullshit off in the middle of nowhere.

---

Not really. I'm a fan of the NM train. And it was really fast to level up when you're in a party of 8 in the train. I remember shooting up in the levels when I was 48 and killing the moths to spawn Penny. Right now I deleveled myself to 48 again cuz of how quickly I can jump back to 50. That's where level syncing would have been a great addition to this content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arkdra

"well that RNG isn't relevant to you getting your glamour weapon and therefor it shouldn't matter"

---

True, that is the basis of my argument. Since the majority of people here were saying "I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for the relic weapon". And these other things that are in there are just like any other stuff locked behind RNG (deep dungeon loots, EX mounts, BLU actions etc.). So I wouldn't tie my perception of the content to them unless they affect my progression in them. For example BLU primal skills was mind numbingly annoying. Having to do one for more than 115 times to get the skill to drop so that I can use it in the carnival is the kind of RNG I would stand against.

Having made a big effort post on why I think Eureka is terrible, I may as well make an effort post on how I would fix it.

1. Don't apply the Eureka concept in an instance. The overworld of FF14 is gorgeous but you have very little reason to be out in it once you've done all the quests there. Overlaying Eureka into the overworld zones would be a solid way to breathe life back into the overworld. Grinding monsters under certain conditions to spawn overworld bosses is something already done for hunts. Slapping 10-20 new hunts into a zone applying similar spawn conditions but Eureka speed respawns doesn't strike me as impossible to implement.

2. Ditch elemental levels entirely. They don't really add anything interesting and nothing gives this way more than being able to toggle the elemental swaps automatically now. It's pretty much just another bar you fill and more or less only functions to block off travel options, which ideally I don't want blocked off to begin with. No exp loss either, obviously.

3. Loot boxes go from being a relatively common drop to being rare, let's say 1 every 30 minutes to an hour and they only contain the good stuff. No more opening dozens of lootboxes for fireworks and materia.

4. All of this good stuff is also purchasable via a currency you get for doing Eureka related things so that you will get it eventually even if RNG conspires against you. Same for monster specific drops.

5. I actually think Diadem 2.0 was a step in the right direction and I would like to see a return of the basic gameplay loop. An in zone npc that you can go to who will assign you some random tasks that culminates in a boss fight and takes about 15 minutes to complete and gives you some of that eureka currency and tomestones and maybe some other things like old map crafting materials. Or hell, old Eureka drops too since that content will probably be super dead come Shadowbringers. Can still use duty finder for this now, thanks to the world visit mechanic. Essentially a downtime filler like the bunny fates with more variety to it and a more pointed goal than to run off somewhere and chain grind monsters.

6. If you absolutely must have a bar to fill, make it a reputation bar, same as beast tribes. Can't unlock the mount for purchase until you grind the eureka rep out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

Except when you are level 50 sprites of the same level are hard to find or only appear on certain wind conditions. Add to that the the whole time I was in Eureka Pyros I couldn't get a single party that was grinding on Sprites.

---

Delevel yourself.. Once you have the mount ability unlocked you can't lose it, there's no reason to not delevel with the extreme amount of Exp you get per NM fate.. Also if you look for a map online you can see what weather an location the sprites spawn for your level.. And of course the weather effects the sprites its part of the whole elemental system being thrown out of wack for Eureka or did you skip all the story elements?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alucard135

Not really. I'm a fan of the NM train. And it was really fast to level up when you're in a party of 8 in the train. I remember shooting up in the levels when I was 48 and killing the moths to spawn Penny. Right now I deleveled myself to 48 again cuz of how quickly I can jump back to 50. That's where level syncing would have been a great addition to this content.

True, that is the basis of my argument. Since the majority of people here were saying "I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for the relic weapon". And these other things that are in there are just like any other stuff locked behind RNG (deep dungeon loots, EX mounts, BLU actions etc.). So I wouldn't tie my perception of the content to them unless they affect my progression in them. For example BLU primal skills was mind numbingly annoying. Having to do one for more than 115 times to get the skill to drop so that I can use it in the carnival is the kind of RNG I would stand against.

---

To the first bit, there are logograms that only come from heated lockboxes and those only come with chaining some specific things that I don't remember because I said lol nope not doing that back when I was starting Pyros. Those are the ones I bought, and a couple others I just had some bad luck with. Probably wouldn't have been necessary but I wanted all 50 skills in case that somehow mattered in the future because you never know.

To the latter part, I don't farm ex primals, or deep dungeon and I have been shitting on blu since it's release for this exact reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Burningskull

...

---

Were you solo in the NM train? Cuz it's very easy to get full credit killing mobs when you're in a full party even by one hit if it was your party's target. It's easy to power level that way without it being a chore. This wasn't designed to be a solo content. That's why Pagos was more severe and punishing for solo gameplay, which we all agree was the worst one of all three (the dev team stated that they didn't take any feedback from Anemos into pagos. It was already completed before they could do anything). But when you talk about the logos actions I will disagree here. If they are such a chore, you wouldn't see the MB flooded with them. The only ones that are harder to get are offensive and mitigative ones which you need very little of (while you can get an abundance of them quite easily if killed some sprites at level 45 IIRC). And these actions gave us a good way to break from the traditional class role mold. Some of them even make soloing content very easy (like killing sprites with reflect).

Running dungeons to me seems far worse. You move the same linear path, same monsters and mechanics that you can sleep walk the entire dungeon. As for Eureka, if you're staying in the same spot for hours, you're doing something wrong. It's also more sociable in shout chat due to the number of players present (how an MMO should be). Not just running the same dungeon for 20 times while being silent.