This Needs to Be Said

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

In HW there was alternatives to build you relic.

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Yeah, right...farm tomestones, next step, farm tomestones, next step, farm tomestones...Frankly, I'll take a dozen Eureka zones just to not have to farm tomestones ever again.
Still, you have a very decent alternative to both the Eureka weapon and the Savage weapon, you can easily not do those if you don't like them and let those who do enjoy.

In fact, like Ko_ said, it's important that you don't do it if you don't like it, as it's the only way to see if the content is really successful or not, since the people who post here can never speak for the majority wether they praise or complain about something.

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Originally Posted by Bahati

If not for relic and AF gear Eureka would have been dead on arrival just like Diadem 1 and 2 were.

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If not for weapons and mounts, EX Primals would be dead after the first week.
If not for gear, 8-man and 24-man raids would de bead after the first week.
Claiming that a content is alive only because its reward is attracting is...well, the very core of every content in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

Euhm that has been done sort of with one of the arr relic weapon steps. You had to complete 3 dungeons, 10 sets of mobs and 3 specific fates with sometimes attrocious respawn rates.

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ARR was different, because you werent able to choose your activity.

eureka definitely a more fun content than collecting tomestones via speed running dungeons or spamming a1s, especially I get to see eureka keeps getting improved everytime they give us a new map.

so yeah can't wait to see pyros, keep making it better dev.

I hated running Aetherochemical Research Facility over and over and over for the umbrite step of 3.0 relic. My god, it was terrible. Eureka is far preferable to that.

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

I don't know how many times we have to tell them before they listen to us.

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Best thing to do is just avoid doing the content all together. I'm not defending them in the slightest but history shows they take all the suggestions put in the suggestion box and just toss them out. The only things they do listen to is when their data shows the content is nearly barren, or when sub numbers take a huge loss.

As long as their data shows people are doing the content, weither the players actually want to do it or if its even fun to the players. It doesn't matter to them. As long as they see lots pf players doing it, they consider it to be a success and the trend continues.

The random weapons of Diadem 1 (at the beginning) is what allowed this version to stay alive until the complaint of the players (raiders).
The next update completely ruined the weapons, and since the Diadem was dead (same version 2).

I do not understand how we can complain about that.
We could stuff ourselves as we wanted (and very well) on any job (complaint we currently receive with the capped memo).
And for the random, It's been a long time we got it on the loots and yet we do not complain strangely.

Afterward, I don't know, surely all those who do not like it, have never played or enjoyed Borderland or any similar game that offers billions of different weapons through random stats and effects (that's for sure on FF, it remains less interesting).

Me, I have pleasure in several forms with that : expectation (drop and gain), surprise (stats, rarety), power (compared to other weapons and other players).
If you don't feel any satisfaction, then this system is not for you, that's all.

So, given the Pyros info (that and the dungeons, + system logos), I'm really looking forward to it.
To, and by the way, Pagos >> Anemos.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I hated running Aetherochemical Research Facility over and over and over for the umbrite step of 3.0 relic. My god, it was terrible. Eureka is far preferable to that.

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Originally Posted by Dionysius

eureka definitely a more fun content than collecting tomestones via speed running dungeons or spamming a1s

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Why do people who like Eureka always fall back on this defense? You didn't need to spam ARF or A1S to complete your relic. If you didn't enjoy running the two over and over...there were alternatives.

Prove it.

Wheres your data? back it up. And not with posts from people flaming because they dont want to do it. Where are your dead instances?

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Afterward, I don't know, surely all those who do not like it, have never played or enjoyed Borderland or any similar game that offers billions of different weapons through random stats and effects (that's for sure on FF, it remains less interesting).

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That is quite the leap of assumption there. Just because it was enjoyable in Borderlands 1, 2, and the Pre-Sequel, does not equate to the exact same thing here in FFXIV. In fact, the billions of different weapons are one of the key driving points of that series - not here in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by HiroesX81

Prove it.

Wheres your data? back it up. And not with posts from people flaming because they dont want to do it. Where are your dead instances?

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? Prove what? That the complaints against Eureka as a whole have only grown since Anemos? That even in-game, away from reddit, gamefaqs, and the forums, you can still spot people complaining about it? I'm not sure what you are getting at here. What exactly are you asking me to prove? Dead instances weren't even mentioned in my OP...so yeah...

To each their own, maybe I should start complaining about how savage mode is offensive to my time.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Why do people who like Eureka always fall back on this defense? You didn't need to spam ARF or A1S to complete your relic. If you didn't enjoy running the two over and over...there were alternatives.

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I ran everything, but those were the fastest/most efficient, so naturally I ran a lot of those. If I didn't do A1S none of my stuff would be finished. Tracking light and doing a 30 minute 24 man for a chunk of light = might as well not even do it.

The "defense" comes from being able to do the content, and always having people available to do the content. Eureka has that, the efficient dungeons don't.

It also is because doing the same duties for no additional rewards is both A) a lot of work B) boring.

Eureka doesn't depend on me tanking every single moment I'm in there, so it's less work. And I can talk in shout, watch the chaos of a FATE unfold, mess around with bunny fates, or change camps as soon as I'm bored. I can't do any of that in a dungeon, and 24 man raids aren't conducive to any funny or interesting conversations most of the time. So Eureka provides more entertainment, and is less demanding, and thus less mind-numbing.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yeah, right...farm tomestones, next step, farm tomestones, next step, farm tomestones...Frankly, I'll take a dozen Eureka zones just to not have to farm tomestones ever again.
Still, you have a very decent alternative to both the Eureka weapon and the Savage weapon, you can easily not do those if you don't like them and let those who do enjoy.

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You're omitting the fact tomestones come from a variety of sources. You can farm dungeons, trials, raids, savage, beast tribes, hunts and pretty anything to obtain them. Eureka has no such alternative. You either grind the same trash mobs, in the same area with absolutely no variation whatsoever or you skip the relic.

And citing the Savage weapon as an alternative is a cop-out. That has always been an alternative on top of the aforementioned. The only difference in Stormblood is people are forced to participate in Eureka whereas they could do literally anything that gave tomestones to progress their Heavensward relic.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If not for weapons and mounts, EX Primals would be dead after the first week.
If not for gear, 8-man and 24-man raids would de bead after the first week.
Claiming that a content is alive only because its reward is attracting is...well, the very core of every content in an MMO.

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A better comparison is if they put decent gear in Eureka, but not the relic. Even if that gear ultimately had a higher ilvl than Savage, it would be DoA. Look no further than Diadem where they slapped in a i280 and it still died. Everything else you mentioned doesn't have a unique expansion long glamour that people want. And even the Primal mounts have a reasonable token system you can elect to wait on in lieu of farming them endlessly. Eureka lacks any of this. They put the relic in there purely to avoid another Diadem disaster to save face.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus_Cassius

To each their own, maybe I should start complaining about how savage mode is offensive to my time.

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Go for it. I've made my complaints known about the Diadem/Eureka experiment - forums are an open discussion board, so if that's how you feel, go right ahead.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Eureka doesn't depend on me tanking every single moment I'm in there, so it's less work. And I can talk in shout, watch the chaos of a FATE unfold, mess around with bunny fates, or change camps as soon as I'm bored. I can't do any of that in a dungeon, and 24 man raids aren't conducive to any funny or interesting conversations most of the time. So Eureka provides more entertainment, and is less demanding, and thus less mind-numbing.

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Except that it does. Stop tanking for even a moment and there goes your chain. Even worse healers and dps also don't get a break either, otherwise good bye chain. Oh and that 30 Chain you just did, there is a chance that you could get absolutely nothing at all for your time because the light is purely random. This is what people mean by the fact that Pagos is not respectful of the time you put into it. Because you could go in there chain non-stop and actually get nothing at all to show for it. Where as at least with the Anima light you went into those knowing for a fact that you were going to get light.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

Except that it does. Stop tanking for even a moment and there goes your chain. Even worse healers and dps also don't get a break either, otherwise good bye chain. Oh and that 30 Chain you just did, there is a chance that you could get absolutely nothing at all for your time because the light is purely random. This is what people mean by the fact that Pagos is not respectful of the time you put into it. Because you could go in there chain none stop and actually get nothing at all to show for it. Where as at least with the Anima light you went into those knowing for a fact that you were going to get light.

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I have two elemental weapons, spent very little time chaining.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I have two elemental weapons, spent very little time chaining.

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And I have one which took forever to get because light was so rng dependent that there were days the only time I got light was on the off chance a NM spawned, because I drew the short straw for rng light with chains. This content is very much ymmv because of the fact that it is so RNG dependent. Some people can breeze through it because RNG showers them with praise, others (like myself) can go entire lockets without getting a single Frosted Pagos Crystal.

I don't mind grinding and rng. I just wish they could've tied this into the open world. Like made a new map and put actual, non fate, world bosses in there, made it a stronghold or some type of real dungeon.

Just not another instance that takes away your progression. I don't think it's as bad as people are making it out to be but it still could've been done way better. Maybe they should actually put polls in game? NCSoft does that to get a better view of what people want, even though they rarely apply the advice.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

And I have one which took forever to get because light was so rng dependent that there were days the only time I got light was on the off chance a NM spawned, because I drew the short straw for rng light with chains. This content is very much ymmv because of the fact that it is so RNG dependent. Some people can breeze through it because RNG showers them with praise, others (like myself) can go entire lockets without getting a single Frosted Pagos Crystal.

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Not really. I did the entirety of the content with my wife, and she ended up 1.5 crystals behind me. She missed one Louhi and two other minor NMs that I got that she was unable to get credit on, which means she was actually only about 1 crystal behind me doing all the same content. The RNG difference isn't so big that there's going to be two people doing the same content and one is massively ahead of the other.

We did chain parties four times, that's it. The rest of the time, we were popping NMs or farming rabbits. We spent a little time this morning duoing lv35 mobs just to try to get them to mutate/adapt and getting little slugs of light doing that. We were able to invent our own gameplay based on what we felt like doing, and we always had the fallback of other people in the zone popping other objectives if ours didn't work.

That bolded bit is the main advantage Eureka has over old content. You don't have to organize or arrange every single player into a role; other people doing as they will can benefit you.

Another thing is, in those chain parties, I got to actually play DPS. If this was all dungeon dependent, RIP, I'd have to sit in a long DPS queue.

I...

I liked The Diadem.

I'm always perplexed when folks say Eureka is like Diadem. It certainly doesn't feel that way to me. Maybe they're comparing it to Diadem v2.0? I only tried that variant once. Regardless, there's several things that make Eureka more appealing to me than Diadem:
- Eureka has quests and a storyline. Honestly, I'd prefer to see MORE quests, sidequests and such, but that's beside the point.
- Eureka has a system of progression. You start weak, you get strong. The only "progression" Diadem allowed was the random chance of decent buffs on gear (or, later on, the stupefying luck of getting a better-than-raid weapon with decent stats).
- In Eureka, you're not always grinding the same mob. Well, you CAN, I guess; I know folks swear by their dragons or their Anubis or whatever, but in Diadem, you just ground dinos.
- Eureka has the train. It allowed for a lot of breezy, casual socializing. I was also continually impressed by the willingness of folks on the train to help total strangers. I don't think Diadem had anything similar.

Those aren't the only differences, but regardless, if the only definition of "Diadem-like" is a large, time-limited area with various objectives, then no, I disagree. That's too broad, and there are too many ways to take such a concept and do beautiful things with it. I won't claim that Eureka got the formula perfect, but it certainly did it head-and-shoulders better than Diadem did.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

That is quite the leap of assumption there. Just because it was enjoyable in Borderlands 1, 2, and the Pre-Sequel, does not equate to the exact same thing here in FFXIV. In fact, the billions of different weapons are one of the key driving points of that series - not here in FFXIV.



? Prove what? That the complaints against Eureka as a whole have only grown since Anemos? That even in-game, away from reddit, gamefaqs, and the forums, you can still spot people complaining about it? I'm not sure what you are getting at here. What exactly are you asking me to prove? Dead instances weren't even mentioned in my OP...so yeah...

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All youve said is "It sucks, I dont wanna do it and the people I know dont wanna do it either". Thats not enough basis for them to end the whole thing. Theyve already said were getting two more areas. And every time I personally go in all I see is full instances of people farming, BARELY any complaints. So far its your word against mine. And I dont sound like im complaining. :P Nobody would listen to any of you. And the fact that theyve gone this long without adressing it is proof.

I’ve done multiple relics down to the original atma step of the first, I did two unnerfed atma weapons, at that. I’ve done diadem too and got my pegasus and managed to kidnapp a baby brachiosaurus and hunting hawk (because the drop rates seemed a lot better than anything in Pagos). I did the emergency fate once and while the coordination of all of the people in an instance that size was pretty insane, doing it for the experience itself with friends was fun. I was rewarded slowly for my time spent with these relics and even in the Diadem.

I can find good points in all of the previous relics including the comraderie we found together in Anemos but as the series continues to be rolled out I feel like SE is just an ever present parent disciplining us for not enjoying their content in the way they had intended by punishing us with repetitive mob grinding content (which is literally unhealthy for us and I’m honestly surprised they encourage it) and now is likely going to take the one solace that used to be something worth doing the relic for besides glamor, our relic substats.. and hide it behind multi-layered rng, as if almost all of the buildup to that point isn’t soul-crushing enough as it is.

What I personally find disturbing is the path some of their content such as Pagos is taking. Not only is it repetitive, unhealthy, and frustrating (if you want that emote, boss drop, or cold lock box drops be prepared for a ridiculous amount of rng), it is an insult to our time spent in game. This relic is just not worth my time obtaining. I wish the devs would understand that when creating this content that was once creative, fun, and rewarding and is now the garbage we are getting that is Pagos and very likely Pyros. The reward just doesn’t justify the time spent doing the content.

At some point they will likely backpedal with the grind and requirements like they usually do. Even then, I don’t plan on going back even after the nerfs eventually come out, just out of spite for the content itself. Biggest question is why they won’t listen to us and continue to shove this soulless content down our throats when the general game population is saying no to it. What happened to their mantra “if it isn’t fun?” It’s also worrying to me that this will be the path for the foreseeable future of the relic storyline. What was once well thought out content with new trials, a decent storyline, and something we could pace ourselves with as we do what we enjoy doing in game, whether it be raiding, dailies, or whatever is now mindless monster zerging for hours upon hours on end with a shallow storyline and topped with layers of cheap rng at the end. If that is the continued path it will be another piece of content of theirs I just won’t bother with anymore. Which is sad, because I used to enjoy it.

Idk, doesn't Eureka have higher participation numbers than Savage and Ultimate? Pretty clear which content needs to be axed in favor of content people actually do enjoy...

Obviously playing Devil's Advocate here, but this is likely how the dev team view things.

I loved the concept of Diadem. I loved how they said it would keep getting updates. I was looking forward to those updates.

They release Diadem, and it was a huge amount of wasted potential. Okay, they promised updates; let's wait this out. They never came. They took Diadem down, redesigned it, and it was worse. It died in less than a week and they never touched it again.

And every iteration since (Anemos, Pagos) has been worse and worse.

I still love the concept, but the devs have failed to make it fun. And when you've failed at that, you've just plain failed.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I ran everything, but those were the fastest/most efficient, so naturally I ran a lot of those. If I didn't do A1S none of my stuff would be finished. Tracking light and doing a 30 minute 24 man for a chunk of light = might as well not even do it.

The "defense" comes from being able to do the content, and always having people available to do the content. Eureka has that, the efficient dungeons don't.

It also is because doing the same duties for no additional rewards is both A) a lot of work B) boring.

Eureka doesn't depend on me tanking every single moment I'm in there, so it's less work. And I can talk in shout, watch the chaos of a FATE unfold, mess around with bunny fates, or change camps as soon as I'm bored. I can't do any of that in a dungeon, and 24 man raids aren't conducive to any funny or interesting conversations most of the time. So Eureka provides more entertainment, and is less demanding, and thus less mind-numbing.

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Again, you are pointing out the most efficient way to grind light. Yes, grinding certain things were more efficient. I am not arguing that. I am saying that there were options, which there were. You didn't need to spam A1S anymore than you needed to spam, say, Void Ark. Neither were necessary evils. You had the choice to work through the most efficient way or to work slower but run alternative content. Sometimes I ran a 24 man with my FC. Sometimes I glamour farmed dungeons. I even PVP'd to work towards both my mounts and my relics. I several complete Anima and I never felt the need to force myself through slogs of ARF, even now.

Eureka is Eureka. I cannot PVP in Eureka. I cannot work towards a mount in Eureka. Hell, due to a lack of level synching I can't even play with my FC in Eureka. In Eureka I have 2 options to progress : I can grind mobs or I can wait for others to grind mobs. Thats it.

Before I quit Pagos, there was little chatting in my parties. The most socializing happened when there was downtime finding new members when someone left the party, otherwise sans the occasional <flag> change when our camp got too cramped, It was radio silence and training dummies for 2+ hours. It that doesn't qualify for both a) a lot of work and b) boring, I don't know what does.

Diadem was fun, and to an extent Eureka could be if relics weren't locked behind it, but I think the big problem is this idea of putting open world content in to instances. Sure it has the benefits of being cross world so there is plenty of players to participate, but what happens when the content becomes old and there is less reason to go in there. Eventually despite Eureka having the relics, players will decide (and some have already) to just skip it this expac altogether, and that's pretty unfortunate.

I would probably find more excitement if relics were linked to treasure map duties (like the canals), least I could go in there and have some fun and get worthy items in the process, rather than just farming the same boring mobs and get rewarded with sparklers at the end...

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I'm always perplexed when folks say Eureka is like Diadem. It certainly doesn't feel that way to me. Maybe they're comparing it to Diadem v2.0? I only tried that variant once. Regardless, there's several things that make Eureka more appealing to me than Diadem:
- Eureka has quests and a storyline. Honestly, I'd prefer to see MORE quests, sidequests and such, but that's beside the point.
- Eureka has a system of progression. You start weak, you get strong. The only "progression" Diadem allowed was the random chance of decent buffs on gear (or, later on, the stupefying luck of getting a better-than-raid weapon with decent stats).
- In Eureka, you're not always grinding the same mob. Well, you CAN, I guess; I know folks swear by their dragons or their Anubis or whatever, but in Diadem, you just ground dinos.
- Eureka has the train. It allowed for a lot of breezy, casual socializing. I was also continually impressed by the willingness of folks on the train to help total strangers. I don't think Diadem had anything similar.

Those aren't the only differences, but regardless, if the only definition of "Diadem-like" is a large, time-limited area with various objectives, then no, I disagree. That's too broad, and there are too many ways to take such a concept and do beautiful things with it. I won't claim that Eureka got the formula perfect, but it certainly did it head-and-shoulders better than Diadem did.

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- The "storyline" is so barebones it doesn't deserve being called such. It essentially boils down to "go find thing and talk to me again in x amount of levels." There is no nuisance or development of any real sort not unlike how poorly received Heaven on High's equally barebones story was received.
- Progression which is instantly invalidated going into the next zone. We aren't given an explanation why we're suddenly weaker in Pagos. They couldn't even be bothered to mention why we lost our mounts. We just do. Progression for progression's sake feels incredibly hollow. There's no purpose behind it except "level again!"
- Yes, you are. Trash mobs in FFXIV have very little variance between them. They primarily auto, with only a small amount of anything unique or different. None of any noteworthy mechanics. You simply wail on them endlessly. Just because you're fighting a penguin or dragon doesn't make them any different than dinos if they all do virtually the same thing.
- You mean the train which was heavily restricted after players found their preferred method of grinding which didn't align with the dev's vision? The whole reason people are upset is because Eureka offers no choice. If the train were equally as viable but less efficient, you wouldn't see nearly the number of complaints you do now. But as NMs don't give light, it isn't viable whatsoever.

Eureka is, in every way, a reskinned Diadem. Changing around a couple things doesn't make it any more creative or different. It's merely minor tweaks. Considering Pyros will have random substats, something only Diadem has ever employed. They aren't even trying to hide the fact they're reusing Diadem as Eureka's template.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Again, you are pointing out the most efficient way to grind light. Yes, grinding certain things were more efficient. I am not arguing that. I am saying that there were options, which there were. You didn't need to spam A1S anymore than you needed to spam, say, Void Ark. Neither were necessary evils. You had the choice to work through the most efficient way or to work slower but run alternative content. Sometimes I ran a 24 man with my FC. Sometimes I glamour farmed dungeons. I even PVP'd to work towards both my mounts and my relics. I several complete Anima and I never felt the need to force myself through slogs of ARF, even now.

Eureka is Eureka. I cannot PVP in Eureka. I cannot work towards a mount in Eureka. Hell, due to a lack of level synching I can't even play with my FC in Eureka. In Eureka I have 2 options to progress : I can grind mobs or I can wait for others to grind mobs. Thats it.

Before I quit Pagos, there was little chatting in my parties. The most socializing happened when there was downtime finding new members when someone left the party, otherwise sans the occasional <flag> change when our camp got too cramped, It was radio silence and training dummies for 2+ hours. It that doesn't qualify for both a) a lot of work and b) boring, I don't know what does.

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lol, So you're saying you can only use one method to gain light--the very method I didn't use, and have two elemental weapons. But you're criticizing me for not liking that I had to run the same stuff over and over again for previous relics? Kudos.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

lol, So you're saying you can only use one method to gain light--the very method I didn't use, and have two elemental weapons. But you're criticizing me for not liking that I had to run the same stuff over and over again for previous relics? Kudos.

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So theres more ways to grind light besides killing mobs or waiting for others to spawn NMs? :thinking:

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Originally Posted by Rokke

So theres more ways to grind light besides killing mobs or waiting for others to spawn NMs? :thinking:

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No, but there's a lot of ways to go about the grind. Because you can chain as an objective, farm cold boxes as an objective, farm rabbits as an objective; you can pull massive tons of mobs with no chain as an objective, and you can take a break without the entire duty grinding to a halt, and go solo something or swap camps and still have some hope that something, somewhere, will happen.

You might not like any of these methods, but I do. I happen to hate the mind-numbing dungeon bash method, because it never changes and it's totally impersonal; in Eureka I've made friends. I also get to engage in conversations. That never happens in regular duties.

If you like grinding your relics in pvp, more power to you, but I have every Garo gear, Raigo mount, and every job at 70--I literally get nothing from PVP.

I have all the glamour I want from dungeons and 24 mans. All of that stuff is a waste of my time. It's impersonal. There's no opportunity to make friends or talk to people. You can't take a break. You just bash your head into the same content over and over with no variation, and no chance to stop, during the duty, and smell the roses. Or enjoy the people around you.

I mean, I did it, I have multiple relics from 2.0 and 3.0, but I much prefer Eureka because for me it simply is more enjoyable than bashing through old content with strangers at mach 10.

See, here is the thing for me, I think Eureka CAN be fun. A lot of the response that Anemos had was along the lines of "ehh it was boring but I had a lot of fun hanging out with people." Why not double down on the Social aspect of that instance model instead of on the grind part? make the light at cap something that everyone in the instance can work towards, chaining can be the most effective way but why not rotating light bonus across the entire instance for different mob groups or elemental types? That way players of all level ranges can benefit from a bonus given to the entire area not just 1 small space that people have to fight over like cats over scraps. I know SE didn't like the train because of various complaints one being AFK players just leeching. SO why not add more environmental hazards to the areas where NM spawn? Make it so that even if you can't fight effectively you cant just leave your character alone for hours at a time. Have HYPER powerful Roaming monsters, ones that can't be killed but instead need to be coordinated somewhere away from your party. Or use lures ala MHW to capture or lead them away? Making chains SO damn punishing was a misstep as well. You could have made it the most effective method to gain light but why make it SO DAMN hard to do it casually while enjoying the time talking with friends, there's room for both imo. I think the leveling process shouldn't be so new player unfriendly, If you go in solo you are basically just wasting time and there's no incentive for higher level players to help you with no ilvl sync system in place. Those really are just some thoughts off the top of my head but if Anemos inadvertently turned into a social experience and that was the ONE positive thing people had to say about that area as a whole, why go through soo much to nerf that experience into oblivion and create an area that a vast (not all I know) majority of the playerbase feels so negatively about?

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Originally Posted by Floortank

in Eureka I've made friends. I also get to engage in conversations.

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You can do this literally anywhere. Go to one of the major cities and strike up a conversation.

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If you like grinding your relics in pvp, more power to you, but I have every Garo gear, Raigo mount, and every job at 70--I literally get nothing from PVP.

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That's kind of the point. I like PvP, so grinding my relics in PvP gives me something that Eureka doesn't: Fun.

For people who don't like Eureka, the only option is to do Eureka and not have fun. There's no alternative. In the past, we could choose from pretty much any activity we wanted. I don't like dungeons, so guess what? I never did my grinding in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Go for it. I've made my complaints known about the Diadem/Eureka experiment - forums are an open discussion board, so if that's how you feel, go right ahead.

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Thats fine I rather not waste time. Unlike you, I live and let live.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

- Eureka has the train. It allowed for a lot of breezy, casual socializing. I was also continually impressed by the willingness of folks on the train to help total strangers. I don't think Diadem had anything similar.

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Anyone already answered and i am ok with what was said.
BUT i want to add anything on this

"socializing" the great good point everyone said to me to defend eureka... Thats all? a content that make people to speak with each other in a MMORPG... impressing. really.

But, more of this, doest eureka get this thing as big new thing in FFXIV, those socializing fate train?
NO
Fate train did born on september 2013. and died with the release of PotD.

And already, people were laughing at fate train while doing those. Just it was the best way to level subjob (before 2.1 it was the only way... )

so yes, diadem didnt have this... But was not a matter. Because fate train are not anything i used to invite friend to come FFXIV... (in fact, i did avoid to speak about it ^^" )

Diadem 2.0 actually did have a FATE train, people waiting for boss FATEs, and people just sitting around waiting for Emergency Missions. So if "sitting around waiting for something to happen" is a qualifier for something that Eureka has over Diadem, it actually doesn't. Diadem had it, too.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You're omitting the fact tomestones come from a variety of sources.

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And you're ommiting the fact that gearing everything else also requires farming Tomestones...and gearing before that also required farming tomestones, and even before that. You just don't realize you're doing the same repetitive things for 5 years. And frankly, after the first dozens times, every trial is the same, and dungeons likewise.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The only difference in Stormblood is people are forced to participate in Eureka whereas they could do literally anything that gave tomestones to progress their Heavensward relic.

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Considering no one forces you to do the relic, no one forces you to participate in Eureka. In the end, the relic is like any other weapon, except that the later stages requires the earlier ones, which is a burden you wouldn't have to suffer for other weapons.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Look no further than Diadem where they slapped in a i280 and it still died.

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They slapped an i280 weapon on a random event that drops randomly for a random job to a random player with randomized stats. This is absolutely nothing like any gear you could build with the Eureka system, even if you decide to not put the "Relic" label on it.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Diadem 2.0 actually did have a FATE train, people waiting for boss FATEs, and people just sitting around waiting for Emergency Missions. So if "sitting around doing nothing" is a qualifier for something that Eureka has over Diadem, it actually doesn't. Diadem had it, too.

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Oh my bad.
I did try diadem 1.0... did hate this. After 1 week of diademe 2.0 everyone around me was saying "run awaaaay" so didnt even try ^^"

Eureka is even more diadem that i thought...

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

You can do this literally anywhere. Go to one of the major cities and strike up a conversation.



That's kind of the point. I like PvP, so grinding my relics in PvP gives me something that Eureka doesn't: Fun.

For people who don't like Eureka, the only option is to do Eureka and not have fun. There's no alternative. In the past, we could choose from pretty much any activity we wanted. I don't like dungeons, so guess what? I never did my grinding in dungeons.

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Yeah, well I don't find PVP grinding fun. I enjoy Eureka for all of the above reasons, including that I get to actually interact with people. And you are a pretty good answer to a question posed in another thread. I'd rather you not dictate where I converse, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

And you're ommiting the fact that gearing everything else also requires farming Tomestones...and gearing before that also required farming tomestones, and even before that. You just don't realize you're doing the same repetitive things for 5 years. And frankly, after the first dozens times, every trial is the same, and dungeons likewise.

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Yes, I just don't realize I'm queuing for Dun Scaith, Alexander, Balesar's Wall or doing Beast Tribes; each having different bosses and mechanics in lieu of trash mobs equivalent to the world map. Just because they all reach the same goal doesn't make them identical. If we actually fought NMs with any regularity like in Anemos, you could at least make that argument. We don't. Pagos is literally grind trash mobs and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Considering no one forces you to do the relic, no one forces you to participate in Eureka. In the end, the relic is like any other weapon, except that the later stages requires the earlier ones, which is a burden you wouldn't have to suffer for other weapons.

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Like I said, you either do Eureka or you skip the Stormblood relic. There is no alternative. Heavensward and ARR allowed us to do different things. Saying "well you don't have to do the relic" is only proving how one dimensional and binary Eureka is. You have no choice if you want the relic. You have to grind trash mobs endlessly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

They slapped an i280 weapon on a random event that drops randomly for a random job to a random player with randomized stats. This is absolutely nothing like any gear you could build with the Eureka system, even if you decide to not put the "Relic" label on it.

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You missed the point. Despite that being a better weapon, people didn't care. Hence why in Stormblood, they locked the relic behind their Diadem re-skin to hopefully goad more people into doing it as if it had anything else, regardless of superior ilvl, people wouldn't have touched Eureka. They still aren't despite the relic being there.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Yeah, well I don't find PVP grinding fun. I enjoy Eureka for all of the above reasons, including that I get to actually interact with people. And you are a pretty good answer to a question posed in another thread. I'd rather you not dictate where I converse, thanks.

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You completely missed the point yet again.

Socializing is nothing unique to Eureka. So saying that you can do it there has little to do with Eureka itself.

You don't find PvP grinding fun. That's fine. That's perfectly in-line with what I said. If you don't like the content, you can find something else you do like and do it. You like Eureka? You could go grind out your relic in Eureka. In the past, people had a choice where they could grind their reilc. They don't anymore. That's the problem people have with the relic being tied to it.