Next Eureka installment - please vastly reduce NM xp.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Honestly, the rewards are acquired far too quickly. Everyone I know is no longer even playing the game since this content lasted all of a week. With 4.3 being over a month away, its going to be a quiet few weeks in FF14.... again.

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Let’s be real here, nobody would have gone in if the rewards had Atma level rates. I think item distribution was fine. The only way to remedy this would be to make Pazuzus feathers Atma level %s, which again, nobody but the very few dedicated would even try.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

Honestly, the rewards are acquired far too quickly. Everyone I know is no longer even playing the game since this content lasted all of a week. With 4.3 being over a month away, its going to be a quiet few weeks in FF14.... again.

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The content lasted a week if you zerged it just like all content if you zerg it.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The content lasted a week if you zerged it just like all content if you zerg it.

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If a game is going to have a 3-4 month gap between patches, the content should be designed to last that long.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

If a game is going to have a 3-4 month gap between patches, the content should be designed to last that long.

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It still wouldn’t stop 70% of the people that ALWAYS do relic from blasting through it. This isn’t new. Happened with Zeta, and happened with anima.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

It still wouldn’t stop 70% of the people that ALWAYS do relic from blasting through it. This isn’t new. Happened with Zeta, and happened with anima.

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Even casually, the average ARR relic weapon stage took at least a month or 2 to finish. Anima was at most a month for each up till the final phase, which was laughable at best. On average, like I said. Some people obviously finished theirs sooner.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Even casually, the average ARR relic weapon stage took at least a month or 2 to finish. Anima was at most a month for each up till the final phase, which was laughable at best. On average, like I said. Some people obviously finished theirs sooner.

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Was going to say every step but books took three weeks or less. Unless they purposely gate the content like they did with Alexandrite(800 tomes per map and 1 daily roulette) people would still finish it fast. I consider a month for most steps still not terrible considering people like to say it took MONTHS for their Atma pre nerf.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

If a game is going to have a 3-4 month gap between patches, the content should be designed to last that long.

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People will always zerg. Look no further than the Unidentifiable Anima step. Some had it done within a week; others two. They grinded 600 Alexander Normal runs that quickly. There is only so much the devs can do to accommodate people who play to those extends.

how about no and the OP just not be part of NMs beyond their level limit.

Easily solved.

I think I hit around 12 and quit doing Eureka. It's not my type of gaming.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

People will always zerg. Look no further than the Unidentifiable Anima step. Some had it done within a week; others two. They grinded 600 Alexander Normal runs that quickly. There is only so much the devs can do to accommodate people who play to those extends.

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There's plenty the development team can do. Look at the Tomestone lockout; it's bulletproof. Even Crafted gear has a soft barrier of sorts, in the form of Scrip required for Master-level recipes and limited spawn rates of many Gathering points for the ingredients. Players can break through the cap, but the faster one wishes to go, the more money one has to pay - a luxury tax, of a sort.

Personally, I think SE ought to at least incentivize steady progression rather than zerging. They've very rarely done this in regards with Relics; I think this has been a mistake. Suppose, for instance, that Eureka had incorporated Daily and Weekly quests, the completion of which would put someone squarely on track to have a full armour / weapon upgrade within, say, 12 weeks. Then suppose that the standard, non-quest progress was scaled so that, discounting quests, a full armour / weapon upgrade would take about 150-200 hours. Would people still manage to have their Relics within a couple of weeks? Yeah, sure, some would - but most players would be far more content to absorb the content more slowly, extending its lifespan.

All this to say, the development team has plenty of options. Debating whether or not these options are worth implementing, well, there's a debate worth having. Acting as if we should simply be resigned to the current state of affairs, though, simply isn't accurate.

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Originally Posted by Wrothgar77

I really think that's the best way to keep it working more as intended - chain xp parties - rather than the fate train. Keep the other rewards the same, so folks still do them even when they over level them (it will make sense to go to an nm you see pop and do it) like it was day 1/2.

I feel like this is the best solution as changing tags to party only will cause issues, and already folks with mounts beat out folks without them that need the xp. If they don't give much xp (or any) then only those who want the drops will race to do them.

This from the perspective of someone who's opened over 6k lockboxes, has 4 sets, still has 3k anemos crystals and almost 60 paz feathers.

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First never ask for nerfs. If anything tell them to buff the XP from mobs done the normal way. If any nerfs make it like normal fates and if you're too low for one of the NMs make it so they get no xp. It would curb the train a bit.

There are changes that could be made to improve the non train experience there is a lot of things that make it unappealing. Party level syncing. One of the biggest problems in Eureka is how lower level player and higher level player are severely punished for playing together unless it's the fate train.

Another approach to fix the above issue, would to be give the mobs static XP values. So XP values that didn't scale with your level. This change allows for power leveling, which SE might nt want, but let's be honest with the level experience as it is would it be such a great loss, to not have this "riveting" leveling experience.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The content lasted a week if you zerged it just like all content if you zerg it.

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Idk man, plenty of people with a full time job finished in a week or two. The train made leveling not an issue, and by the time you hit 20 in a train you have enough crystals for 5-6 anemos weapons, needing only to kill Pazuzu to finish Eureka unless you want to farm gear for alts.

The only way to make Eureka last 2 months is if you only play 20 mins a day.

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

If a game is going to have a 3-4 month gap between patches, the content should be designed to last that long.

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And the people that don't play as often would fall hopelessly behind as for them it becomes a 4 month godawful grind.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

I think what you're getting at is actually a separate discussion, at least by my way of thinking. There's balance between styles (which is currently heavily skewed toward FATE trains), and then there's overall grind balance. You seem to be having more of an issue with the overall grind balance, which is made less onerous by a pseudo-exploitative method of play that nets rewards far faster than what appears to be the intended play style. What I'd rather see is the FATE train brought back down to earth relative to the monster chaining, and maybe have both of them sped up a little bit, along with some tweaks to eliminate kill-stealing (personally, I think whoever claimed a monster should get the full XP, but that's just me).

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Not really, no. OP wants to enforce an intended playstyle on the playerbase, either out of an "this is how it's supposed to be done/intended by the developers" mindset, or a "I dislike the FATE train, so they should remove it entirely" mindset. I disagree with such thinking.

The entire point of my post was to address that people should stop trying to enforce 1 style of play (Chain-parties) on the rest of the playerbase. Especially since there is absolutely nothing stopping those who do not enjoy the FATE train from leveling "the intended way". So why remove the FATE train options from others, when Chain-parties still have their option in the current stage of the content? It's basically the FATE train haters wanting the rest to conform to their idea of fun, or their idea of how things should be done.

My personal perception of "Chain-parties are slow and boring" serves to give OP (and people who share his opinions) an insight into why people who do the FATE train prefer it (speed/boring aspect of "the intended method"), and why they should not force the way they want the content to be played on others (some would just not do it because it's that boring). I have issues with the balance between the two, yes, but my main point was stop trying to force an intended style of play on the playerbase just because you (general you) prefer it/think it's the "intended way to do things".

They need to add something that you can do daily, and gives you a large amount of EXP. That way, people who don't have a lot of time to play can just log in, do the daily, and keep repeating that until they're done over the course of a couple of months.

Also, I'm tired of people saying this content is fun. Look at yourselves. How low can the standards GET, if you believe spending over 50 hours (YES, IT'S THAT LONG, CUT THE BULLSHIT) to get some new glamour items is fun? If you actually thought Eureka was fun, then how come you never see people in the open world killing monsters aside from hunt marks? Stop deluding yourselves. This content is trash, and the more we can do to make it less agonizing, the better. Suggesting to get rid of one of the only things that actually makes the grind SOMEWHAT bareable, is just plain dumb.

"Oh but I like chain EXP trains!" The year is 2018. Game corporations have successfully managed to put certain members of the population to do something that requires zero thought, over a large span of time, and convince them that it's actually fun.

If at least the combat in this game was one of its strong points, then perhaps they could pass this off as fun. But when you have a 2-second global cooldown, please don't try pretending that grinding monsters is anywhere close to fun.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Also, I'm tired of people saying this content is fun. Look at yourselves. How low can the standards GET, if you believe spending over 50 hours (YES, IT'S THAT LONG, CUT THE BULLSHIT) to get some new glamour items is fun? If you actually thought Eureka was fun, then how come you never see people in the open world killing monsters aside from hunt marks? Stop deluding yourselves. This content is trash, and the more we can do to make it less agonizing, the better. Suggesting to get rid of one of the only things that actually makes the grind SOMEWHAT bareable, is just plain dumb.

"Oh but I like chain EXP trains!" The year is 2018. Game corporations have successfully managed to put certain members of the population to do something that requires zero thought, over a large span of time, and convince them that it's actually fun.

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Eh, what's fun is subjective, and varies between individuals. Just because Timmy doesn't think Eureka is fun, doesn't mean Jimmy doesn't love it. I have a friend who absolutely loves the content. I, meanwhile, intend to get my weapons, maybe a few pieces of dyeable AF for Glamour, and then never do it again. Subjective.

I do think the content is more tolerable (in a positive way) than fun, as in the fun part is the community interaction rather than the content itself, because I don't see anyone overjoyed when the timer hits 25 mins and Hazmat still hasn't spawned. That said, Yoshida recently mentioned that both Diadem and Eureka are a playground to experiment with new types of content, and the next Eureka map will also see a change of focus in gameplay, including what seem to be like missions (quests?).

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Honestly, the rewards are acquired far too quickly.

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This isn't savage level gear here. The acquisition rate is fine.

350/355 gear is honestly already on its way out at this point in the game.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Personally, I think SE ought to at least incentivize steady progression rather than zerging. They've very rarely done this in regards with Relics; I think this has been a mistake. Suppose, for instance, that Eureka had incorporated Daily and Weekly quests, the completion of which would put someone squarely on track to have a full armour / weapon upgrade within, say, 12 weeks. Then suppose that the standard, non-quest progress was scaled so that, discounting quests, a full armour / weapon upgrade would take about 150-200 hours. Would people still manage to have their Relics within a couple of weeks? Yeah, sure, some would - but most players would be far more content to absorb the content more slowly, extending its lifespan.

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Considering Eureka is essentially an AFK grind fest. They would require a lot of Daily/Weekly quests to keep people invested long-term. What keeps doing back at the moment is the overall ease of rewards, especially due to how low the ilvl is. If the grind for a single set outside these quests took a month of six hours per day grinding, Eureka wouldn't make it into week three. Look at the initial reception before everyone discovered NMs. There was near universal scorn at the prospect of how long the grind took if you were only killing mobs.

As much as I enjoy grinding on monsters, unfortunately it doesn't suit this game's combat.

I used to really enjoy monster parties back in 1.23, but that's because we didn't have to mash a rotation constantly. It was slower, we had time to chat, and it was less intense. I think it would be better to have more NMs - the focus should be spawning NMs and chaining NMs for exp. Give us more creative NMs because that's what FFXIV is designed around.

Grinding in Eureka was so awful. :(

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

The NM train is the only way to make the grind bearable though.

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well, in its current state yes. But whos to say that a more fleshed out system that isnt reliant on one sole way of levelling wouldnt be better?

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Originally Posted by Reinha

How about getting rid of xp completely and focusing on the actual end game instead of leveling all over again? We already got to max level and xp grinding is not what is supposed to come after hitting the cap.

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This, friends, is the correct answer. Until 5.0, Eureka is post level cap content. There should be no leveling system here, or at least one masked cleverly enough to where it doesn't feel like leveling.

Would be nice if we had alternative means of levelling and gaining exp outside of FATE trains, and for all that is holy not so much of a level disparity, and if FATEs are their intent, then add more. I've just started Eureka on my second character and looking for groups my level is a nightmare.

Got a lot of great feedback and perspectives I didn't consider in this thread so far, thank you.

When I stated where I was at/what I'd accomplished, it wasn't to flex on anyone - simply to ensure it was known I've spent a considerable amount of time in there, not an 1hr then come whine post.

I do also have the perspective of trying to help others level in there since. Many who are still single-digit levels. And for them, it's a nightmare. For content that is as casual as this, and offers rewards as low as this, it feels a bit difficult to be accessible to the casual new player to me. Getting into the NM train is far easier as a lvl 20 than a level 6 - especially if your only 70 is melee or tank. The inability to contribute for the first several hours of content (if you level via the nm train from the get-go) is a real turn-off for some players.

I will change what I said - I don't want to force anyone to ditch the train. But I will instead say this - I don't want to be forced to go the NM train or bust, either. And right now it sure feels like that's the way forced on folks - as the same argument goes both ways. Xp grinding parties (or hunt mechanics or dailies or SOMETHING) needs to be just as effective, or close to it, as the NM train.

Oh and regarding the poster that said I was upset folks turned a dumpster fire into a marshmallow roast - gross. Enjoy your toxic marshmallows. :)

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

Look, all I know is I'm a cute cat-fish. Blub.

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This post is great now that your avatar-for-the-day is gone.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

This post is great now that your avatar-for-the-day is gone.

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Well, they could be a fish from below the neck. All we know is they have the head of a cat based on the avatar pictured.

@OP - Hold your horses there Satan! Nerfing the NM train isn't going to do anything except kill Eureka for those of us still trying to finish relics and armors for our secondary and tertiary classes. Not to mention any new players who have yet to even begin trying as of yet. The train is probably the only thing that is keeping many people going and the instances populated. Why not further buff solo play and chain bonuses instead of asking for a nerf bat to the train? That way people have the option to not do the train if they don't want to instead of being forced which will just further piss people off.

They could reduce Boss xp as long as they replace it with other options.

Heck they could add a unique Beastmen questline in their that has 3 daily quest.

They could introduce leves into Eureka or a concept similar to it.

Spawn items that work like Treasure Maps which allow solo, small party and Fully Party challenging content. (The way I picture it is upon getting the right spawn item they could have something like a "burning circle" aka XI concept of entering a unique battle arena to fight a boss/challenging content so that players can partake in an uninterrupted challenge.)

--Or. . . they could do something like a secondary "Duty Finder" within the instance itself, where you find the spawn item, execute the conditions and then a new Duty Finder opens up to bring players into a unique instance to challenge the content.

I would just like to see some actual challenge in Eureka and a reduction of how much content can be zerged.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I would just like to see some actual challenge in Eureka and a reduction of how much content can be zerged.

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They’re already attempting to do this by nerfing the Magia board and making magicite sync to NM fates.

Train is ok, BUT, NM need to have 2 min immune time or something, we literaly CAN'T reach the NM in time and it already done. We can't do anything other than follow the train right now if we want the xp, we can't chain, we can't nothing, NM die too fast.

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Originally Posted by Yellow

As much as I enjoy grinding on monsters, unfortunately it doesn't suit this game's combat.

I used to really enjoy monster parties back in 1.23, but that's because we didn't have to mash a rotation constantly. It was slower, we had time to chat, and it was less intense.

(

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This. The nonstop button mashing required to chain gets old fast. Just doesn't work well with this combat system. I've chained in a few parties, but everyone needs a break after 15-20 minutes because their fingers hurt.

Actually the button mashing could be worse. With the chain resetting at 30 mobs you can take some breaks when your bonus goes back to zero without losing anything. If it wasn't the case and was staying stuck at 30, people would not want to let go of it, and keep chaining mobs until passing out on their keyboards XD

Instead of taking away, they can add "local" NMs to reward farming parties. These NMs won't appear on global map and will only give bonus exp to the farming party.

All they did was bring back good old fate leveling parties. Like we had in arr. I'm pretty sure heard that ones wanted them back and don't see one problem with the fate train parties there. It's good way for high levels help out low levels with leveling and getting the crystals for there gear.

I like the thought of buffing regular mob EXP to the point where getting to a chain 30 would yield more of an overall EXP gain than doing a single fate while granting more fates chances to drop vanity items as an alternative means of promoting people to do those fates while not having it feel as mandatory for the leveling grind.

Either that or just increase the spawn rates on fates and lower their mob kill requirements so that there can be the increased possibility of multiple fates up at any given time.

Did chaining, it was boring, and if you were wanting to make it to NMs as well it was likely that you would miss out on quite a few depending on where you did your chains. NM training isn't that bad, and it allows for higher levels to help lowbies without wrecking their exp gain. It's also opened up a lot of socializing and camaraderie, things I never thought I would get out of and appreciate in Eureka. Think of all of those puns and memes!

It's not the best designed piece of content and singular monster exp needs some buffs, but NM trains made Eureka leveling bearable, and fun at higher levels. I can't believe I said it was fun.

And to add, if you nerf NM exp, there better be buffs elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Wrothgar77

Next Eureka installment - please vastly reduce NM xp.

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How about:
Next Eureka installment - please do you actual jobs, put some brains into the content and make it actually engaging and FUN instead of a braindead grind that would best be suited to running a bot.

If they implement fun ways to level, make levels not "god-like" in scaling (so low levels aren't so useless 1 friggin week after release), then yes: they could nerf the FATE train.

Though the actual problem of the FATE train (and the reason why people AFK) is the absolutely idiotic level scaling. As a Lv 20 I am a god compared to a level 5, both in terms of damage out as well as defense. Who can blame the low level for AFKing when the system itself denies him any meaningful contribution to the content besides rezzing?!

Fix the above and you will have trash mobs that don't die instantly, give xp for everyone, Fates that don't keel over in 30 seconds flat and eliminate most of the AFKing automatically because people HAVE TO contribute now in order to down stuff.

BTW: I'm saying this as a lv 20 with way more boxes and crystals than I am willing to exchange. Powered by Choo-Choo of course.

What if the NM just gave off an aoe death-aura that killed anyone who would otherwise receive the message "you are too far below this fate" blah blah blah? Just pulse it.

:D

Yeah but no,FF14 gameplay is NOT a gameplay for monster farming,its dull,not untertaining and wayyyy too boring.let the fate farm,its the only thing they can do.

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Originally Posted by Wrothgar77

What if the NM just gave off an aoe death-aura that killed anyone who would otherwise receive the message "you are too far below this fate" blah blah blah? Just pulse it.

:D

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Wouldn't make a difference. You just need to hit the boss once and you'll get full credit provided you're in a big enough party. Regardless, FFXIV simply does not lend itself well to mob grinding. Gameplay is both incredibly and tedious. What makes it engaging are mechanics. Trash mobs have none. Trying to force people into a mob grind will only drive them away. Look at dungeons. Part of why people disliked them is how stale they get.

The actual problems are 1)NM Anemos crystals converting into Protean crystals, 2)still getting meaningful amounts of xp being far below an NM's level, and 3)xp sabotage by higher level characters.

#1 means there's no reason to chain grind for relic. #2 means there's no reason to chain grind for xp. #3 means unless you've custom-built a party inside(more difficult as time goes on) or outside of Eureka it's almost impossible to chain grind in the first place and any jerkwad can just spit on someone's mob to troll their xp.

The best solution would just be to delete FF11 so people stop having nostalgia trips. You either go all in with the chain grind concept or you don't do it at all, because most players won't if there's any option.