Lets stop fighting SE and work with them. What are your ideas?

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

I disagree that VIT is not our main stat, but I agree that its very lackluster and something needs to be done about it.

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Like I said, if you want to kill the STR vs VIT debate and the DPS stance meta in one go, you can :
- Remove VIT from accessories completely
- Give us STR accessories back
- Make mobs hit harder
- Make tank stance more powerful

No more gear choice and mandatory chastising.
No more tanking out of tank stance.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

They showed that they cand arbitrary decide what main stats are when they released NIN.

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DEX affects NIN's gameplay. What's arbitrary is your definition, where you would be willing to consider VIT the main stat for Samurai if the gear made it appear so.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

DEX affects NIN's gameplay.

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Until 2.4, STR was defined as "Increase melee attack power" and DEX as "Increase ranged attack power"
They arbitraty changed those definitions so that NIN would not compete with MNK and DRG for accessories.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Until 2.4, STR was defined as "Increase melee attack power" and DEX as "Increase ranged attack power"
They arbitraty changed those definitions so that NIN would not compete with MNK and DRG for accessories.

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I don't care. That doesn't contradict what I said nor add anything to it.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

I don't care. That doesn't contradict what I said nor add anything to it.

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Problem is, what you said has absolutely no relevance in the game. If SAM could only need on VIT acc (and have traits that boost VIT), your claim that STR is their main stat wouldn't change anything.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Of course, no super tight HP checks to the point that lacking 100 HP will get you killed, but, at least, ensuring that have the full benefit of your ilvl on your Vitality.

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This is a literal (and I do mean literal) impossibility.

In order to be clearable, raids can't require HP checks that you can only meet by having the loot that drops from the raid.

Getting those raid drops will increase your iLevel, and therefore HP, because otherwise there's no point in doing them.

The HP from that extra iLevel is unnecessary, because you've already cleared the raid in gear that didn't include the raid drops.

If you want to keep pushing this idea, you need to show the math that makes it work. Far as I know, the math nerds are pretty unanimous on the subject of damage vs HP as progression.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Problem is, what you said has absolutely no relevance in the game. If SAM could only need on VIT acc (and have traits that boost VIT), your claim that STR is their main stat wouldn't change anything.

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Are you being intentionally dense?

Of course my saying something wouldn't affect the game; how on Earth could it? I'm pointing out a design flaw.

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

I disagree that VIT is not our main stat, but I agree that its very lackluster and something needs to be done about it.

VIT is indeed our main stat, its why gear made specifally for us have the biggest number next to VIT. With that being said, its true that extra VIT does not help and that is the issue. Either tweak VIT to make make it more desirable, or change our main stat to something else (more difficult).

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Seems like you quoted the wrong person there buddy, i didn't say that.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

Seems like you quoted the wrong person there buddy, i didn't say that.

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Yup, sorry. I fixed it. I'm terrible at this.

Granted I didn't read the entire thread. However, here's my opinion on the matter ...

Currently, most tanks are in a decent spot. Warriors and DRK need a few tweaks to move them more in line with PLD but overall all tanks look good right now. Those crying about not being able to hold agro should really look into finding other tanks to talk to about it to get advice because if you are losing agro to anyone, you're doing something wrong. I run with tanks using full VIT acc (IE no 270 STR ones) and rarely do we ever pull off of them. Usually if we do it's our own fault for not using Diversion in the opener.

As for scaling in the future, you're all correct. They will either have to fix it now or be forced to modify the Emnity gen with every patch. However, they have already stated they will not be tieing it back to VIT and won't be giving tanks STR acc. What they can do though to increase the difficulty and fix some of the scaling issues is to reduce the amount of Vit on acc and add minor amounts of str. Say is an acc currently has 175 VIT they could change that to 100 VIT and 50 STR. This would alleviate some of the scaling issue but not all of it. The bigger issue is tenacity. This is designed to be the scalable slider that they can tune at any point to increase dmg done and reduce dmg taken. However currently it is nothing more than a remade version of parry. We take what we have to but no one will go for it because of how bad the scaling is. If they corrected this issue and made it actually worth something we could control both our dmg output and our dmg intake.

They could also look into stances having more of a role to play. Reduce all tanks mitigation by 15% and add that 15% and an Emnity modifier to tank stance. Adding the modifier also allows for very simple threat changes to be made if need be. They would simply increase the modifier to the stance. Add reduced Emnity, -15% more mitigation and 25% DMG buff to DPS stance. Yes 25% because tank dmg atm is pretty terrible and more mitigation loss to push people away from tanking dungeons/raids in dps stance. DPS stance should be used for OT and soloing, not tanking.

TL;DR
Cut Vit on acc, add lower amounts of str to aid in scaling issues.
Reduce overall tank hp so that bosses can actually threaten/kill tanks with mechanics.
Fix tenacity scaling so we don't have yet again another pointless stat. It's not really pointless, it's actually really good, but the scaling is so bad it's not worth it.
Make use of the stances rather than just tying them to abilities.

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Originally Posted by Crater

In order to be clearable, raids can't require HP checks that you can only meet by having the loot that drops from the raid.

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Never said that. But a content that requires ilvl300 should require ilvl300 worth of vitatily. Going into Susano EX with "only" 36kHP should get you killed.

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

Of course my saying something wouldn't affect the game; how on Earth could it? I'm pointing out a design flaw.

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What ? You quoted me when I said that VIT is tank's main stat. How is that a design flaw ?!

If they want to make tanks into more of a tank and less of a DPS, then they need to start by making things hit a bit harder. People weren't pulling 2-4 groups of mobs in dungeons and stance dancing in raids just to go quicker, they did it because its completely possible and easy to do it. I still will pull 2-4 groups if I know the pulls well and I know the healer/DPS are up to it, because a singular pull does so little damage I can forget cool downs and be just fine, just tax/anger the healer a bit more.

They also need more tank secondary stats. I tanked in SWTOR and they had 3 tank secondaries. One that was essentially parry, one that would affect how much damage you blocked through 'parry', and one that was for evasion. Meanwhile, we have tenacity, and the numbers haven't looked great from it yet. But even if it was, then it would mean we stack it, then fill in with DPS secondaries.

There's just no incentives to be tanky tanks in this game.

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

You have to be a real lazy or just plain bad player if you can't cleric stance dance as a healer in 3.X.
In JP servers the majority of the healers here does cleric stance dance all the time in ID and savage content and nobody ever says i'm a healer i heal only over here.

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i dont say the contrary, but cleric stance was clunky and the worst skill i never face, when i was playing AST just for change a bit in 24 man and roulettes i always find this skill so akward in the way i waste instan cure thanks of how works.

but my main point is the primary stat is define by role not for this do damage.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

But a content that requires ilvl300 should require ilvl300 worth of vitatily.

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They can't because only a tiny minority of the people who can clear raid tiers like Coil/Creator are able to perform as a tank with that little margin for error.

What you're asking for here, even if you dont realize it, is a raid tier like Gordias. In Gordias your tanking skills needed to be nearly flawless, because (in full STR) you simply did not have an HP cushion to fall back if you were sloppy or inefficient. And it was too difficult for all but a tiny fraction of the game's tanks.

It wont be any easier if you force tanks into 0-AP VIT acc's and scale the damage up. The people who couldn't do Gordias wouldnt be able to do this tier. It would kill the raid scene, and require just as much kneejerk damage control as Gordias. The only thing youd accomplish would be making it less fun/rewarding/interesting.

What about that actually sounds good?

@OP
I will admit SE does listen to feedback. However, I have been against the way SE has designed tanking from the start. See my comment here. They would need to make drastic changes to the whole system for me to actually consider tanking fun. Like giving tanks active mitigation, making bosses do constant damage, make it so you'd have to do an optimized rotation to hold aggro, etc.

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Originally Posted by Crater

They can't because only a tiny minority of the people who can clear raid tiers like Coil/Creator are able to perform as a tank with that little margin for error.

What you're asking for here, even if you dont realize it, is a raid tier like Gordias. In Gordias your tanking skills needed to be nearly flawless, because (in full STR) you simply did not have an HP cushion to fall back if you were sloppy or inefficient. And it was too difficult for all but a tiny fraction of the game's tanks.

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Pretty much what I've been saying for probably months already. If the best tanks in the game can't get away without tank stance the raid would kill off more than half of our raiders. Those tanks in the top speedkill groups are really good at their mitigation compared to average raiders, so if they still need tank stance to survive the average tanks wouldn't be able to stay alive. Raising the damage tanks receive to make tank stance more needed would just kill off the raiding scene just like how gordias required near optimal execution of dps rotations, except this time people would struggle with the mitigation checks instead of dps checks. I don't know how it is in NA/EU but in JP I'd say most of the tanks (and healers) in raid finder aren't even good enough to tank creator savage without tank stance. Most of them can only survive with near 100% grit/shield/defiance uptime while tanking (i.e. turtle tanking).

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Originally Posted by Crater

What you're asking for here, even if you dont realize it, is a raid tier like Gordias.

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No, it's not...i300 is the minimum ilvl required, and having no VIT accessories is like wearing nothing when it comes to the amount of main stat you have. You shouldn't even be able enter the content with such a low main stat.

Consider this, should a DPS be able to clear Susano EX with 5 i270 VIT accessories ?

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Pretty much what I've been saying for probably months already. If the best tanks in the game can't get away without tank stance the raid would kill off more than half of our raiders.

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Before the ilvl requirement lift on pre-made parties, even the best players in the game couldn't enter the content without a sufficient amount of main stat.

On my level 70 DRK right now, I am ilvl 303 with a right side full of i300 VIT acc and the i310 VIT ring. These accessories count for 529 points of vitality. Changing them for 5 STR acc ones is approximately the same, Vitality-wise, as basically removing my i300 head, hands, waist and feet. By doing that, my average ilvl would drop from i303 (Barely above the requirement for Susa EX) to i210 (Not enough to enter Sophia normal). Even if I meld them with VIT to keep my i300 feet equipped, it would only rise my ilvl to 233.

How is that allowed ?

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

snip

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tanking is indeed fun but ppl like to make a drama just bcs they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers.

i read you post and yeah tank stances need to change, the actual system is not working with the comunity and if stay like now the drama never go to stop, they need to make you dealt the same performance in both stances but with some extras for tank stance that help you as a MT and meaby some gameplays diferences but still being able to dealt the same performance, just make a one true way to tank

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

.

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Read it again; this is not a reply to the post that I wrote or any of the points that I made.

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Originally Posted by shao32

tanking is indeed fun but ppl like to make a drama just bcs they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers.

i read you post and yeah tank stances need to change, the actual system is not working with the comunity and if stay like now the drama never go to stop, they need to make you dealt the same performance in both stances but with some extras for tank stance that help you as a MT and meaby some gameplays diferences but still being able to dealt the same performance, just make a one true way to tank

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It's not just the tank stances for me. My point about the tank stances was that it only has a damage penalty because SE thinks it should have one.

I can watch Netflix while tanking most bosses. That is my major problem with tanking. It's not engaging. Especially with Warrior now. Like if you give up all damage on Warrior, you can rotate your mitigation cooldowns with Inner Beast and never run out of CDs. If I watched Netflix while tanking in TERA, I would get wrecked as a tank.

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Originally Posted by Crater

Read it again; this is not a reply to the post that I wrote or any of the points that I made.

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I took the full discussion :

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Of course, no super tight HP checks to the point that lacking 100 HP will get you killed, but, at least, ensuring that have the full benefit of your ilvl on your Vitality.

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Originally Posted by Crater

In order to be clearable, raids can't require HP checks that you can only meet by having the loot that drops from the raid.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Never said that. But a content that requires ilvl300 should require ilvl300 worth of vitatily.

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Originally Posted by Crater

What you're asking for here, even if you dont realize it, is a raid tier like Gordias.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, it's not...i300 is the minimum ilvl required, and having no VIT accessories is like wearing nothing when it comes to the amount of main stat you have. You shouldn't even be able enter the content with such a low main stat.

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How did I not reply to one of your points ?

If you reduce vit for tanks then all jobs needs but reduced

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

It's not just the tank stances for me. My point about the tank stances was that it only has a damage penalty because SE thinks it should have one.

I can watch Netflix while tanking most bosses. That is my major problem with tanking. It's not engaging. Especially with Warrior now. Like if you give up all damage on Warrior, you can rotate your mitigation cooldowns with Inner Beast and never run out of CDs. If I watched Netflix while tanking in TERA, I would get wrecked as a tank.

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yeah thats why bosses need to be less scriped and have random tank busters or even more types of tankbuster making tanks swaps not being only bcs we get X debuff but more bcs we run out of cds and need swap to refresh, but i dont think something like this will be added bcs SE will think the other tank dont never know when you run out of CD or something like that

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Originally Posted by shao32

tanking is indeed fun but ppl like to make a drama just bcs they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers.

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Judging by how easy it is to tank everything in stormblood so far without tank stance, I'm going to assume that "they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers" is not why people are upset.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, it's not...i300 is the minimum ilvl required, and having no VIT accessories is like wearing nothing when it comes to the amount of main stat you have. You shouldn't even be able enter the content with such a low main stat.

Before the ilvl requirement lift on pre-made parties, even the best players in the game couldn't enter the content without a sufficient amount of main stat.

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I'm quite sure before raid finder was a thing there was no ilv requirement on savage raids when you queue via the npc in hinterland? The ilv requirement removal for premade parties were added since we were no longer able to queue via the npc anymore after they introduced raid finder.

The hp difference between full i300 fending gear and full i320 fending gear is around 5k (slightly over 10% iirc), if you design the damage of the encounters on tanks to be high enough that i300 tanks need everything they have (all defensive cds, tank stance and invulnerability cds) to survive, regardless of how good they are, do you really think average tanks/healers can survive that with barely 10% more hp? If you really think so then you're delusional. Look at elysium's first a8s clear at around i220, and look at the groups of casual raiders stuck in a6s/a7s/a8s despite having near full i240 gear and anima weapon. I don't think you understand the skill gap between those top players and average players.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

The hp difference between full i300 fending gear and full i320 fending gear is around 5k

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5k is 1/8th of your max HP at i300, it's huge. And the difference between a full i300 fending gear and i270 slaying gear is around 10K, 1/4th of your max possible HP.

I'm pretty sure the same difference in DPS output would not let you kill the corresponding dummy.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

I don't think you understand the skill gap between those top players and average players.

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No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

5k is 1/8th of your max HP at i300, it's huge. And the difference between a full i300 fending gear and i270 slaying gear is around 10K, 1/4th of your max possible HP.

I'm pretty sure the same difference in DPS output would not let you kill the corresponding dummy.

No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

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The difference is ... you can lose 10k health and still have enough to survive even the current "tank busters" without mitigation. Tanks simply have too much HP right now. In full 320 Fending our PLD has 49k health. If he dropped those for 270 STR acc and lost 10k health, it still wouldn't be an issue because nothing hits that hard so the health isn't needed.

Or they could, idk, make our abilities scale in power off our main stat. You know....like every other class in the game! Tank design is not complicated. I don't know why after 4 years the Devs still can't figure out the tank role. Have our def stuff scale off vit, have our att stuff scale off str. Stop giving tanks soooo many att skills. I have more attack skills in my toolkit than def ones. If tanks aren't dps then they have a funny way of showing it. Plus the easy fix would be to revert back to the old system and nerf weapon damage on all the tank weapons to keep them from equipping lower lvl weapons.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, I fully understand that skill gap is way more than just having more or less HP.

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Which is why I think having tank stance as the extra safety buffer for less skilled tank is fine, so better skilled tanks can have less tank stance uptime while less skilled tanks can play safe with near 100% tank stance uptime to make up for possible errors. If you make 100% tank stance uptime necessary to survive what are you going to give to the less skilled tanks to compensate for their lack of skills?

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

If you make 100% tank stance uptime necessary to survive what are you going to give to the less skilled tanks to compensate for their lack of skills?

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Nothing. But I'd give more skilled tanks something to improve on, like more complex DPS rotation, or active but complex mitigation which mastery would greatly reduce the healing required. For me, being in tank stance is your basic state, like MNK in Fist Of Fire, or NIN and its poison (Before 4.0). The only reason a tank stance is required is because you need decent DPS when you solo. If the game didn't have solo instances, I'm pretty sure native damage would be 20% lower and native mitigation, 20% higher.

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

Tanks simply have too much HP right now.

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Mobs should hit harder. If a tank has around 50k max HP, then tankbusters should do around 80-90k and tank stance should reduce damage by 50%.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The only reason a tank stance is required is because you need decent DPS when you solo. If the game didn't have solo instances, I'm pretty sure native damage would be 20% lower and native mitigation, 20% higher.

Mobs should hit harder. If a tank has around 50k max HP, then tankbusters should do around 80-90k and tank stance should reduce damage by 50%.

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Do you off tank with grit turned on? Couldn't we just turn on tank stance for the tank buster?

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Do you off tank with grit turned on? Couldn't we just turn on tank stance for the tank buster?

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If normal attacks also do twice the damage, you'll keep your tank stance active to keep your HP as high as possible when the TB comes.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If normal attacks also do twice the damage, you'll keep your tank stance active to keep your HP as high as possible when the TB comes.

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But they dont want to scale attack power with vit, the so called main stat because of hp inflation.

If the past meta sucks so bad, and nobody is pleased, and SE is tired of using str accessories, All they really have to do is make cooldowns like rampart scale with BIT either by making them a flat potency based on vit stat or something. Then the community would value the use of vit for things like mitigation, just like strength currently voosts how much healing clemency or equilibrium gives you.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

If normal attacks also do twice the damage, you'll keep your tank stance active to keep your HP as high as possible when the TB comes.

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If normal attacks do twice the damage, you're looking at typically surviving tankbusters with huge margins because an AA can always go off simultaneously with the TB and you have to be prepared accordingly. Overall, unless AA lockouts are inserted, you'd only see less dynamics and more RNG frustrations in the tanking experience, merely offset to a higher HP amount where your active mitigation or "skill" has less to do with your survival. Accompanied, of course, by lost contribution and enmity control, unless AP were to scale with Vitality (and, in the long run, only Vitality).

The only way they can do the whole "tanks just tank" meta is by making optimizing your abilities, including dps ones, apart of keeping aggro and reducing damage. No one except lazy tanks or people who don't even play tank want to just use the basic system we have in place for those things.

As I've mentioned before, it'll only work if there are some big job changes almost on the level of warrior back in 2.1 as well as changing the mechanics of bosses and enemies which just won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

What ? You quoted me when I said that VIT is tank's main stat. How is that a design flaw ?!

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A poster made the contention that VIT (HP) was not tank's main stat. You responded saying "nuh uh, look, it's on tank accessories!" No shit, we're well aware that it's on tank accessories; that doesn't mean it's the stat most influential to tank gameplay. I tried in vain to illustrate this possibility to you with a painfully obvious hypothetical, but you choose to remain obtuse.

I will try one last time.

If Samurai's main stat was considered, by the game, to be VIT--insofar as being locked into VIT accessories--despite it doing little to nothing to influence their core gameplay, would you consider this sound design?

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Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart

A poster made the contention that VIT (HP) was not tank's main stat. You responded saying "nuh uh, look, it's on tank accessories!" No shit, we're well aware that it's on tank accessories; that doesn't mean it's the stat most influential to tank gameplay. I tried in vain to illustrate this possibility to you with a painfully obvious hypothetical, but you choose to remain obtuse.

I will try one last time.

If Samurai's main stat was considered, by the game, to be VIT--insofar as being locked into VIT accessories--despite it doing little to nothing to influence their core gameplay, would you consider this sound design?

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I too, am beating my head over "they get a stat boost trait at levels" but no equivalent to "mend and maim" or anything crucial to the gameplay of the job.
Attack Power(not necessarilly strength but currently is str) influences everythig a tank does, damage, enmity generation, self healing potency(through damage for DRK) since their damage is crap to begin with they have combos that fake having a damage buff but insteads just adds the enmity that would have been generated is called a multiplier. Tank stances push a multiplier to attacks sd well as their defensive additions, but the fact remains that a tank tanks(holds aggro) better with more attack power, and self heals better with more attack powerm and originally in 2.0 str affected the amount of damage a parry or block would reduce, so back then attack power even enhanced the passive mitigation a tank had

So while technically VIT is the main stat of tanks, its actually more like piety to healers, whilst MND -THE MAIN stat for healers, affects the damage they do, the healing they do, the effectiveness of their shields, etc.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

The only way they can do the whole "tanks just tank" meta is by making optimizing your abilities, including dps ones, apart of keeping aggro and reducing damage. No one except lazy tanks or people who don't even play tank want to just use the basic system we have in place for those things.

As I've mentioned before, it'll only work if there are some big job changes almost on the level of warrior back in 2.1 as well as changing the mechanics of bosses and enemies which just won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Kaonis

If they want to make tanks into more of a tank and less of a DPS, then they need to start by making things hit a bit harder. People weren't pulling 2-4 groups of mobs in dungeons and stance dancing in raids just to go quicker, they did it because its completely possible and easy to do it. I still will pull 2-4 groups if I know the pulls well and I know the healer/DPS are up to it, because a singular pull does so little damage I can forget cool downs and be just fine, just tax/anger the healer a bit more.

They also need more tank secondary stats. I tanked in SWTOR and they had 3 tank secondaries. One that was essentially parry, one that would affect how much damage you blocked through 'parry', and one that was for evasion. Meanwhile, we have tenacity, and the numbers haven't looked great from it yet. But even if it was, then it would mean we stack it, then fill in with DPS secondaries.

There's just no incentives to be tanky tanks in this game.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

@OP
I will admit SE does listen to feedback. However, I have been against the way SE has designed tanking from the start. See my comment here. They would need to make drastic changes to the whole system for me to actually consider tanking fun. Like giving tanks active mitigation, making bosses do constant damage, make it so you'd have to do an optimized rotation to hold aggro, etc.

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Originally Posted by shao32

tanking is indeed fun but ppl like to make a drama just bcs they need to use tank stance how hurt they parsers.

i read you post and yeah tank stances need to change, the actual system is not working with the comunity and if stay like now the drama never go to stop, they need to make you dealt the same performance in both stances but with some extras for tank stance that help you as a MT and meaby some gameplays diferences but still being able to dealt the same performance, just make a one true way to tank

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I pretty much agree with all of you. The big issue is that pure tanking is not very engaging and the only engaging part about tanking is when we are optimizing dps.

Originally I thought that's just how SE wanted their tanking classes to work. Its not my cup of tea but w/e I like to tank so I stuck with it anyway. However recently they've shown they actually don't like this mentality and are trying to change it. (I think they had their hands full with the mess they made out of AST and MCH after 3.0 so they left us alone... until now).

Now I'm concerned though because if things are going they way they seem, its possible SE will just take away things to force us in line, and not add anything to compensate.

So instead of arguing about things that probably won't happen (we aren't getting our str back) and massive redesigns aside, what are some ways they could feasibly make pure tanking in tank stance better / more engaging?

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Originally Posted by Inuakurei

I pretty much agree with all of you. The big issue is that pure tanking is not very engaging and the only engaging part about tanking is when we are optimizing dps.

Originally I thought that's just how SE wanted their tanking classes to work. Its not my cup of tea but w/e I like to tank so I stuck with it anyway. However recently they've shown they actually don't like this mentality and are trying to change it. (I think they had their hands full with the mess they made out of AST and MCH after 3.0 so they left us alone... until now).

Now I'm concerned though because if things are going they way they seem, its possible SE will just take away things to force us in line, and not add anything to compensate.

So instead of arguing about things that probably won't happen (we aren't getting our str back) and massive redesigns aside, what are some ways they could feasibly make pure tanking in tank stance better / more engaging?

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I actually do think it is how SE wanted their tanking classes to work. They want healers and tanks to be easy to play for newer players. I've seen the bad tanks out there that have problems holding aggro with the simple and boring system we have now.

I think it's more they saw the complaints and they saw players stopped playing tanks so they made some fixes to hopefully get tanks playing again.

The reason why I think they want it to be easy is this.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123199385?t=22m38s
"So personally when it comes to raids, when we have a lot of players saying "ah it was too easy," that's actually kind of what we're looking for. That's good for us."
Now Yoshi was talking in the context of raids, but I get the feeling he has the same mentality when it comes to tanks and healers. On the flip side, I have seen what happens when aggro is really challenging to hold. You get tons of complaints on the forums from the lesser skilled players so I do understand his perspective, but I don't quite agree with it. I think there's nothing wrong with having a learning curve.

That being said, I'd be happy to be wrong and for SE to make some changes to make tanking fun.

I'd be happy with something as trite and effortless as buffing Strength VI materia. It wouldn't be ideal, but it'd harmlessly solve my core problem with having to use STR accessories to maximize my damage output.