Anyone else think the cap of 900 for tomes should be the future cap?

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

You really need to be more aware of what is actually needed to participate in each patch cycle.

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Most people that unsub have the unsub mentality most people on my sever that when I was a sprout and talked or mentored me havent skipped a beat. So when I became one myself I see the same people most people that like this game arent gona unsub , I have many friends that have every single job leveled to 60 crafters and battle classes and still sign in daily. And Im very aware that gear will be nothing around level 65 Im not concerned about that, but as a player who came maybe a year or months after hw I am concerned about being forced into playing one role when I have leveled several.

I play jobs based on the content in some content you may have insane tank bustered that may be easier to heal through than tank, or as a healer you may have horrible debuffs on you that makes your job harder which may be easier to tank. I know many players who play a job based on the content dungeons dont matter so you can have bare min gear in them to succeed. But if your doing a raid and your not in a static you should have the right to have most of your jobs fairly geared around the same ilvl just in case you need them. So taking half a year to get to other jobs is just not cool especially when anyone who joined after hw has never really played the game in such a way even with scrip cap once I got to hw lore was plentiful I could gear all my jobs as soon as I hit sixty. Most people dont just level jobs to play them in content like potd only.

I am retired and spend a good deal of time in game. While I always thought 450 was too low 900 is way too high for the Cap. As I have recommended before I believe that the Cap should be at around 600. This would allow you to reasonably do the minimum amount of DF, POtD and Beast tribe quest to make them worthwhile and still leave time for other ventures. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Rizon

I am retired and spend a good deal of time in game. While I always thought 450 was too low 900 is way too high for the Cap. As I have recommended before I believe that the Cap should be at around 600. This would allow you to reasonably do the minimum amount of DF, POtD and Beast tribe quest to make them worthwhile and still leave time for other ventures. Just my opinion.

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If your going to only let people level all their jobs up at the end when content is dead then we might as well play one job per character if thats how most players play the game anyway. I hardly ever seen players with just one job leveled, but if thats what people do then whats the point in a job system in the first place you should have the right to play any job you want to in any content and not be held back by gear.

I think they need to give us alternate ways to obtain gear outside of scripts that is equally as good. I am so tired of that system. This game needs a bit of horizontal progression added to it.

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Originally Posted by Iromi

I think they need to give us alternate ways to obtain gear outside of scripts that is equally as good. I am so tired of that system. This game needs a bit of horizontal progression added to it.

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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, but there are several ways to get gear. Not just tomestones. And they are "equally as good." At the very least they're enough to substitute until you get the gear you want.

--Crafted gear: some of which can be pretty decent and last until gear from 24-mans are released. While pricey, some pieces are worth it until the next tier of gear is released, or until you can get the gear you want.

--Gear from Story Mode 8-man raids: with careful planning of your ideal gear set, you can easily get 1-2 pieces of gear even with the weekly lockouts in place. I was able to get an accessory and a left side piece of gear each week for the jobs I play the most during the lockout. Some gear from Story Mode Alex was better than Scripture gear, stat-wise.

--Gear from 24-man raids; some 24-man gear can be used as substitutes if you really want a high ilvl, or a pseudo-BiS. For example: I have not cleared A11S, so I don't have access to those beautiful BiS bard pants. I substituted Diabolic Pants of Aiming instead.

--Dungeon gear: so many people discount dungeon gear, and while it may not be ideal for Savage or EX primals, if you just casually play jobs, it can be more than enough to keep your jobs geared for the current 4-man content.



Having a high ilvl only matters if you are interested in endgame content such as Savage or EX primals (and even then, higher ilvl does not always equate to being "better"). If you plan to only stick to 4-man dungeons, and maybe the occasional 24-man, you really don't need max ilvl for content. I see people complaining about gearing up all 15 jobs for endgame. Can you honestly say that you will run savage content or Ex primals on EACH JOB? I know a lot of people with everything to 60. And while they play the jobs, they don't play all of them in Savage content.

Again, I play 4 jobs frequently, and a couple casually/if I'm bored. The 4 jobs I play the most I was able to gear up well before weekly lockouts were removed/scripture caps were increased. If people just limit themselves to current tome gear, of course they'll gear up slower than those that pull from all of the available resources. But that's not the fault of the latter.

Next cap increase will be at 4.57, from 450 to 900 again

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

Sorry i know this is off topic but this is something that kinda ticks me off, IF as you say the recipes have "insane" requirements then why do you think the gear is overpriced ? crafting takes a shitton of gil and time to get where you can make this gear you call overpriced, at least if you want to stay up to date, even getting there way late still costs millions, and i don't mean "2" when i say millions. why on earth would anyone spend a fortune to be able to craft stuff just to sell it at a 100k markup selling 1 item a day if he/she could just spend a million for baseline crafting gear , do some 60-1* recipes and earn the same money without spending tens of millions on melding beforehand ?.

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As a crafter. with 1000+ craft n control. (able to make all that top tier stuff) I do tend to think it's over priced... I have made quite a lot of it. and I am fully aware that some of those items are a lot of effort to make especially if I gather the materials myself.

but in the end it's still just an i250 weapon that you're probably going to replace within a few hours of farming Sophia or palace of the dead.. it's kinda hard to justify a multi million gil price tag on something that you're only going to use for an incredibly short period of time...

but I think that's why the gear never sells that well anyway..

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, but there are several ways to get gear. Not just tomestones. And they are "equally as good." At the very least they're enough to substitute until you get the gear you want.

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but the jobs while different all have a basic concept , tanks will tank , healers will heal , so thats pretty much six jobs you can switch in an out and it not even really matter but they share makes it a bit easier. But its not unreasonable to take a job into any form of content because basically a dps has one function and thats to dps but yet they are all broken up into different gear sets.

Maybe you wouldn't take them into savage content but normal moods have gear requirements, so do extreme primals and to have to gear them all unevenly is a disservice imo. As a tank its nothing to que into shom al hard four times and get 200 scrips its an instant que and you can do four runs in less than an hour in a half. So those whom dont cap scrips now do so because they dont wont to are dont have a need to , but for someone who frequently changes in between jobs Its very easy to get 900 tomes in one week. So the thing is if the cap was 900 those whom didnt want to get 900 very much have the option to not do it , but the ones that dont have a problem easily capping are hindered by such a low cap of 450 when most things cost 475.

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Originally Posted by Mycow8me

Currently I enjoy:
War (main), BRD, BLM, SCH Untill very recently I could only keep war and bard geared (and bard was not geared very well untill new patch was about to drop). Now I've been able to play all 4 at various content ilvls and I haven't been getting bored of the game for this reason.

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What's stopping you from playing all those jobs? Unless you do Savage, bis is meaningless. Even then, statics typically don't want people bouncing entirely different roles.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I'd like to see any time based cap removed entirely.

Let us decide our own caps. Hell leave in the caps but allow us to opt out of them if we wish. I shouldn't feel restricted just because of some other players' bad habits.

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Do this and you effectively guarantee people lose incentive significantly earlier. Why keep raiding for 6+ months when you can be bis within the first four weeks. Less if you're a better player.

Honestly, just remove Tomes already. There should be another way of gaining gear that doesn't feels like a job.

Why are people so insistent that Tomes is the only way to get gear, when there are so many other ways to get it..? Why exactly do you need to have each job in the max ilvl? Are you raiding? Then good going you've entered another way to get the highest level gear. If not, then why exactly do you care? You can easily get slightly lower ilvl and still use the job well.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

What's stopping you from playing all those jobs? Unless you do Savage, bis is meaningless. Even then, statics typically don't want people bouncing entirely different roles.



Do this and you effectively guarantee people lose incentive significantly earlier. Why keep raiding for 6+ months when you can be bis within the first four weeks. Less if you're a better player.

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this is a very different discussion than the other thread 900 scrips currently is like a chest piece basically, this isnt the same thing as asking for no cap at all that would be dum. But 900 is very reasonable, just a weapon alone is 1000 so to level or gear ur healers and tanks which share gear if you got them weapons to would be 3 months. And everyone doesnt do statics to try and raid people where using raid finder doing things with fc members etc, you dont always have to have a static to try and do content.

I wasnt playing when the first floors of alex came out but this time around I will do them in storm blood but it wont be in a static, maybe friends with a common goal but Im not applying for a job this is a video game. But thats beside the point 900 scrips really isnt that crazy considering how much chest piece and pants, as well as weapons cost 3000 alone well close enough to it. The bit of savage I have done has been through pf or with fc members having a static isnt a must it just maybe makes things easier depending on.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Do this and you effectively guarantee people lose incentive significantly earlier. Why keep raiding for 6+ months when you can be bis within the first four weeks. Less if you're a better player.

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Devs just need to put out longer or more content (it is possible, we have arbitrary limits, I've seen other games release expansion sized content within 6 months, its how EQ1 has 24 expansions).

Playing one day a week is bad design. A week has seven days, playing all seven days in the type of content we want to play should be viable.

See this is why I find it stupid. Tome gear is casual gear I should be able to get what ever amount of tomes I want. But due to the silly system of the gear being the same Ilvl as raid gear eventually we have these silly limitations. If casual people who are not interested in raiding then Dun Scaith equivalent should be their end game gear. If you are raiding then Raid gear at a higher ilvl than both Dun Scaith equivalent and Scrip gear should be their endgame gear. Yes I know people will disagree but endgame gear should have a challenge behind it be it story raids or Savage.

Also hate the whole get gear wear it for a few weeks then it's replaced. Actually I just hate the whole tome system full stop.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Why are people so insistent that Tomes is the only way to get gear, when there are so many other ways to get it..? Why exactly do you need to have each job in the max ilvl? Are you raiding? Then good going you've entered another way to get the highest level gear. If not, then why exactly do you care? You can easily get slightly lower ilvl and still use the job well.

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People don't want to work for gear. They want it given to them for little effort. WoW started that trend with there new system for acquiring gear and people want the same thing in this game. It's not about raiding. People want the gear because it looks cool but that's it. It really is that simple. The glamour system is what caused this and nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

People don't want to work for gear. They want it given to them for little effort. WoW started that trend with there new system for acquiring gear and people want the same thing in this game. It's not about raiding. People want the gear because it looks cool but that's it. It really is that simple. The glamour system is what caused this and nothing more.

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If it's just the glamour then give them a non stat equivalent piece bought with MGP. At least PvP got this right.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

If it's just the glamour then give them a non stat equivalent piece bought with MGP. At least PvP got this right.

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If they did that far less people would be raiding and probably unsub as there isn't really anything else to do in the game.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

If they did that far less people would be raiding and probably unsub as there isn't really anything else to do in the game.

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Each stage of the raid gear should make it easier to clear the next stage, so no people would still continue raiding. Players should look at a piece of gear and say wow u got those stats not oh that's a lovely pink blouse.

Also I only just got into raiding about 3 weeks before Echo came in. The main thing that put me off was the thought of so much work for such a small stat increase or just being able to gear up early. Now I have started doing it I still couldn't care less about the gear due to the small increase I go for the challenge. Many casuals I speak to say why do raids and get all the stress when I can just wait till things are uncapped. Same with the tomes people gear up one class and then leave till more story/content is uncapped before returning.

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Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Each stage of the raid gear should make it easier to clear the next stage, so no people would still continue raiding. Players should look at a piece of gear and say wow u got those stats not oh that's a lovely pink blouse.

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I do think gear should get easier to acquire over time so that players with less time to play can experience the content with this catch up system. We all pay the same amount so we should be able to get the gear at some point even if its near the end of the expansions life span.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

People don't want to work for gear. They want it given to them for little effort. WoW started that trend with there new system for acquiring gear and people want the same thing in this game. It's not about raiding. People want the gear because it looks cool but that's it. It really is that simple. The glamour system is what caused this and nothing more.

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I just find it funny how people just lump everyone in a category with everyone I have seen many a player with shire gear like chest and pants but , have alex accessories and maybe an anima weapon or shire weapon are they not raiders. raid doesnt equal gear automatically tomes isnt rng dependent like other gear in this game , so I dont understand the argument here it would simply be an option for those whom want to grind and want every job at max gear level to have that option.

Like I mention earlier for those whom wernt here when hw started prob actually never had to have one of or some of their jobs severally lower gear wise than the others. When I started poetics was all access so every one of my jobs had access to 120 gear I wasnt level 50 and some of my jobs had ilvl 50 gear. Same thing with sixty as soon as I got to 60 on each job lore was an option every job was gona be 230 if anything. And now with time left I can get every job to ilvl 260 because they will all get played including the two new ones, many players dont know what its like to have one job with amazing gear and another in vender trash.

I'd rather 450, but make tome caps and bonuses more or less per-job...

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'd rather 450, but make tome caps and bonuses more or less per-job...

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I could tolerate this as a compromise. I won't be happy, but I won't turn it away either.

I'd rather have no more tomestones at all, the formula got old 3 years ago.

I'm going to go with no, actually. I'm going to be raiding again in Stormblood, and that means I'll be feeling the pressure to have the best gear. A lower cap on tomestones releases some of that pressure, since even if I had the time to grind, I'm unable to get more than 450 tomestones per week. A 900 cap means that for the first few weeks, I'll have to grind over twice as much (since daily roulettes won't cover that amount).

There was a time cap was 300.

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Originally Posted by Tanathya

I'd rather have no more tomestones at all, the formula got old 3 years ago.

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So what do you suggest for casuals to get their gear?
People keep complaining "No more tomestone, its getting old" bla bla bla but never saw any of them actually suggest a good replacement.

I propose keeping the cap at 450, but up the cap to 900 during the final month that the current endgame ilvl gear is relevant. (Like, for an example, they could have upped Esoteric to 900 one month before switching to Lore for 3.2, or upped Lore to 900 one month before switching to Scripture for 3.4.)

I don't get why they only increase the cap for the tail end of the expansion, when doing it at set times throughout the expansion would probably benefit a lot of people more. Especially raid teams looking to find new members in preparation for the next raid tier.

Get rid of tomestones alltogether. Or apply cap based on job.

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Originally Posted by Galborion

Get rid of tomestones alltogether.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

So what do you suggest for casuals to get their gear?
People keep complaining "No more tomestone, its getting old" bla bla bla but never saw any of them actually suggest a good replacement.

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/quotingmyself

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Originally Posted by Arutan

/quotingmyself

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There is suggestion, right in next sentence. Stop quoting only what is convenient for you.

That's not a solution for tomestone since you're still using tomestone.

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Originally Posted by Arutan

That's not a solution for tomestone since you're still using tomestone.

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It changes it fundamentally and that is the point. In the current state and with even more jobs coming in Stormblood weekly shared cap is a nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Galborion

It changes it fundamentally and that is the point. In the current state and with even more jobs coming in Stormblood weekly shared cap is a nonsense.

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RDM will be on caster and SAM will be on MNK, no more gear (except for AF).

I was able to gear three jobs with full non-Savage BiS (Shire/Diabolic) before the cap was raised. The raised cap just means I'll be able to passively gear the other two quickly as well. It's never best to just get full tome sets, you want to mix and match depending on substats.

450 is fine :)

i250 is enough for every content.
So there is no need for i260, if you don't want to farm it

Nope. 450 was perfect. Farming 900 tomestones is a pain in the ass. 450 i'd do normally. Anything above that now i just count as "bonus". i'd much rather spend time leveling other classes or trying to make gil rather than grinding tomestones

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Devs just need to put out longer or more content (it is possible, we have arbitrary limits, I've seen other games release expansion sized content within 6 months, its how EQ1 has 24 expansions).

Playing one day a week is bad design. A week has seven days, playing all seven days in the type of content we want to play should be viable.

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Nothing they design will last long enough. This isn't a FFXIV problem, but one spanning the industry itself. People nowadays consume content immediately-- far quicker than developers can produce it. Hence why you see measures taken to maintain continuous play. Allowing people free reign ensures they'll jump ship faster since they've exhausted all you have to offer. If tomestones go away, we'll have to be gated by something. Do you prefer RNG or tediously long grinds? Black Desert and WoW utilize those systems to slow player progression.

What you're asking for is simply unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

this is a very different discussion than the other thread 900 scrips currently is like a chest piece basically, this isnt the same thing as asking for no cap at all that would be dum. But 900 is very reasonable, just a weapon alone is 1000 so to level or gear ur healers and tanks which share gear if you got them weapons to would be 3 months. And everyone doesnt do statics to try and raid people where using raid finder doing things with fc members etc, you dont always have to have a static to try and do content.

I wasnt playing when the first floors of alex came out but this time around I will do them in storm blood but it wont be in a static, maybe friends with a common goal but Im not applying for a job this is a video game. But thats beside the point 900 scrips really isnt that crazy considering how much chest piece and pants, as well as weapons cost 3000 alone well close enough to it. The bit of savage I have done has been through pf or with fc members having a static isnt a must it just maybe makes things easier depending on.

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They don't want people gearing up that quickly because it promptly invalidates other content faster. A permanent increase to 900 Scripture equates to only six weeks having a full 260 set if we exclude the weapon. Those players have less reason to farm the normal mode raid, subsequent 24 man raid or buy crafted gear. Nevertheless, this is at least something more plausible than dropping any sort of loot restriction entirely. Personally, I'm indifferent to it, though think the 450 cap is fine.

Go for it. All I've saying is people expressing how they want to be able to bounce around jobs and roles whenever they please will find very few statics allow it. So at best... you'll be pugging.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Do this and you effectively guarantee people lose incentive significantly earlier. Why keep raiding for 6+ months when you can be bis within the first four weeks. Less if you're a better player.

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For a few maybe but I don't think it'd be that many people. look at the primals if you so desired you could have every drop from an ex primal in the first day. yet you still see dozens of parties for them in the party finder months after there release..

also lockouts tend to kill incentives as well... for the most part once my tomes are capped or my expert is done and ive got any weekly loots. that's it i'm done. there's no incentive to do anything else...

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

People don't want to work for gear. They want it given to them for little effort.

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I'm of the opinion that it isn't that people don't want to work for gear that's the problem.
it's more that people don't want to see there efforts wasted next month....

it's something that comes up a lot on the forums. especially with regards to things like savage. loads of players don't do it simply because the rewards for clearing it will be trash next month and thus any effort they did or would put in to getting it is ultimately wasted.

players did midas savage got 240 gears. second 3.4 dropped many of em crafted straight into 250 before even setting foot in creator savage. so what was the 240 good for really.. wasn't good for midas cos by time you got it you'd already beaten it. wasn't creator because a lot of it was replaced with 250 as soon as 3.4 landed...

I think it's easy to understand why players don't want to work for gear when it ultimately has no value at all. and that's why players will put in massively more effort into getting a piece for glamor than they will about getting a piece for upgrade.....

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Originally Posted by ffchampion

Nope. 450 was perfect. Farming 900 tomestones is a pain in the ass. 450 i'd do normally. Anything above that now i just count as "bonus". i'd much rather spend time leveling other classes or trying to make gil rather than grinding tomestones

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Yeah? What is forcing you to grind up to 900 if you dont want to? Your OCD? So because of that noone else should have an option?

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Originally Posted by Dzian

For a few maybe but I don't think it'd be that many people. look at the primals if you so desired you could have every drop from an ex primal in the first day. yet you still see dozens of parties for them in the party finder months after there release..

also lockouts tend to kill incentives as well... for the most part once my tomes are capped or my expert is done and ive got any weekly loots. that's it i'm done. there's no incentive to do anything else....

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And what keeps them there? Mounts. Take away the birds and ponies and every single EX Primal dies within a month or two. You cannot put mounts in everything otherwise people stop caring since it's no longer anything special.

What keeps you playing say, 2-3 months after the patch? Most people will have obtained all the gear they want, tried Savage if so inclined and have no use whatsoever for crafted, normal mode raids or the 24 mans. All three basically die as a means for gear progression.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

players did midas savage got 240 gears. second 3.4 dropped many of em crafted straight into 250 before even setting foot in creator savage. so what was the 240 good for really.. wasn't good for midas cos by time you got it you'd already beaten it. wasn't creator because a lot of it was replaced with 250 as soon as 3.4 landed...

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Welcome to why FFLogs is so popular. Although, I will say, it'd be nice allowing raiders to have a leg up on the next tier. Unfortunately, the casual crowd doesn't appreciate it. We now have two separate threads on tomestones and a number of people hate the idea of raiders getting any sort of advantage despite them having to put in a lot more work for their gear. The devs solution seems to be a third difficulty tier meant entirely for challenge. That... is admittedly pretty cool.

Yes, but only if you don't come here to complaint because you already geared and don't have anything to do.