4.0 Ideas

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Originally Posted by Februs

Hypothetically, the only way around this would be to design specific fights that actually require a Tank LB to clear. This is highly unlikely, because it would hinge success on what is essentially a bonus skill that is not always available (say, for example, if someone DC's). They could also give Tanks an independent LB gauge, but that would also be unlikely because it would require SE to re-scale the dmg output of bosses to adequately reflect the additional defensive capabilities of the party.

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Ultima's Bane and T13 are the only two cases when the Tank LB was necessary. Granted, it was before ilevel increases, but still.

As things stand, I can only think of one ability a Paladin could use in 4.0:

Atonement (since Reprisal's already taken)--increases block rate and a Holy Spikes effect, causing 50 potency damage for each physical attack. Recast: 60s, Duration: 30s.

As for traits:

Enhanced Parry I--increases Parry rate and damage reduced by 5%.

Enhanced Parry II--increases Parry rate and damage reduced by 10%. Allows a 40% chance to counter any close-range attack.

PLD - can't get passed not getting an AOE in 3.0, so I'd like to see that first.

Blood Weapon changed to a stance; I like, mostly though because it addresses in part my criticism of DRK.

I'll just stay broad and say I'm hoping that the 4.x job-play change will involve a new MP recovery mechanic for DRK.

Not sure if anyone has suggested this yet, but it would be interesting to see something like this:

Depending on the combination of tanks you have in party, the two tanks gain a buff. ie: A DRK + PLD combo would give both tanks increased physical + magical defense. A DRK + DRK combo would give them an upgraded Dark Mind. A double WAR gives both WARs increased raw damage. Double PLD could make Clemency instant-cast with higher potency. A PLD WAR combo could give all DPS +60% skill speed. *lel*

Of course, I haven't thought of this in detail. Double WAR damage buff seems like it would be very broken, but really that depends on the difficult aspects of a fight (ie: is more damage a necessity or is an upgraded Dark Mind more suited to this specific battle???).

This could also be extended to healer classes and dps classes, but that's complicated. This is all complicated lol

So many people in this thread mention not wanting more abilities. I wonder if it's a common thing. Personally, I feel I can accommodate another 8-16 abilities easy in PvE, considering I use all my PvP skills and could still have room for more.

That said, I like some of these ideas. Clearly some of OP, but with proper balancing, they can give some good ideas. I could easily see them bringing in new customization trees or something similar to what you see in a lot of games, even FFXI's merit system for instance. However, I know they've said they're not doing that anytime soon, meaning by next expansion.

tank limit break has different effect to the party
not just straight up damage reduction
warrior-increasing party damage dealt, hp recovery via curing magic and make party hp cannot go lower than 1 in the limit break duration
dark knight-massive circle AOE that damage the enemy if they step in it but heal the party member and increasing hp recovery via curing magic
add counter attack effect to parry so tank will start to take interest in parry since it will increases their overall dps
new traits for all jobs

-Personal limit breaks.

-I get pains in my hands from clicking every single 2.4 seconds and oGCD in between for several hours. I have to take breaks. Normally i dont have this issue with games. Soooo... I would like to see them combine obvious combos into one skill instead of 3. If you have a 1-2-3 combo then you will use it. Unless your just casual and dont raid and spam whats pretty.. lol. Heavy Swing, Skull Sunder, Butchers Block. They always go together. You dont press 3 unless you 1-2'd first! Its a waste of clicks. At least add a feature to automatically finish the combo if youve unlocked the other skills in the set. That way i can "HS, -Internal release or some other CD here-,SS, -or here-, BB" simply by hitting 1(HS button), then hitting my IR/CDs as soon as i see an opening. Macros would be a great way to fix this If done right(like gambits of ffxii imo but checking first if im lagging(lag tends to not let actions happen server side) or target dead(why waste a CD hitting something dead?)) I know people will say bots will bot easier and they dont want that. I agree in a way, but bots will cheat anyways even if they have to use 3rd party apps and risk getting banned..and they already do..
TL;DR...combine certain actions into one. Or fix the macro system to be more useful in combat.

-Maybe something like skill upgrades like through traits or individual skill exp.(the more you use cure, the better cure gets- but limited to certain percentages for balance reasons, or limited to max amounts for a given level..) That way if i like Something i rarely get to use i can upgrade it and have a choice of what i want my rotation to be.

-Better cross classing. Or no cross classing. Its as some others have already mentioned. Why have provoke even be cross class? EVERY tank takes provoke. Its pretty much required. I want to take dragoons parry skill on my dark though.

Dark Knight: I want FFT's Sanguine Blade/Infernal Strike attacks. Ranged Darkness (Magic) attacks that absorb HP/MP. Sole Survivor has its limited uses but a 15 second CD skill like those would be awesome and fit the whole Dark Knight lore.

I also wanna see a sword come from the ground and carve something through.

Yeah, I'm a bit morose...

My wishes:

- dont add more skills, just add skills as replacement for older skills

- no more additional stances

- personal Limit Breaks (like PvP)

- upgradeable skills (like PvP)

- higher effect on stats like parade and skill-/spellspeed

- more cross class skills, even from jobs

- remove classes, add jobs (Red Mage, Samurai, Rune Fencer, s.o.)

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

-Personal limit breaks.

-I get pains in my hands from clicking every single 2.4 seconds and oGCD in between for several hours. I have to take breaks. Normally i dont have this issue with games. Soooo... I would like to see them combine obvious combos into one skill instead of 3. If you have a 1-2-3 combo then you will use it. Unless your just casual and dont raid and spam whats pretty.. lol. Heavy Swing, Skull Sunder, Butchers Block. They always go together.
TL;DR...combine certain actions into one. Or fix the macro system to be more useful in combat.

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They could just allow us to map macros on hotbars/crossbars like we can do with actions right now so: hit 1->do HS 1 become SS macro, hit 1->do SS 1 become BB macro, hit 1 ->do BB 1 become HS macro

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Originally Posted by garret_hawke

They could just allow us to map macros on hotbars/crossbars like we can do with actions right now so: hit 1->do HS 1 become SS macro, hit 1->do SS 1 become BB macro, hit 1 ->do BB 1 become HS macro

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I wouldnt suggest that! In that case you mess up things, when you click your one-button-combo too much.

New abilities could be implemented through adding combos instead of directly adding new skills that need to be mapped; the 'new' ability being an alternate WS to an existing one that can only be used under conditional requisites.

Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Goring Blade *existing combo

Goring Blade > (new) Rage of Halone > (new) Riot Blade *new combo

In the case of the new combo, instead of RoH and Riot, two new WSs would be used.

This for me is the most logical way of implementing new Weaponskills for most Jobs come level cap increase, ie. adding the new abilities to existing one but requiring specific conditionals.

but who knows what they're thinking.. My batting average of predictions with SE for this game has been under .200

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

So many people in this thread mention not wanting more abilities. I wonder if it's a common thing.

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Issues with cross-hotbar space and hotkeys is part of why people are so concerned of button bloat

Cross-hotbars? hell, i have problems on keyboard. fingers too short to use 6, 7 and up in comfort.
i even use Q, E, R and T, shift, ctrl, alt...
They really need to think about some kind of smart-hotbars or something. Otherwise 5.0 will be like this lol.

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

Would rather have power slash increase damage 5% for 20 seconds. HP drain is too risky.

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Man, like... I've always been known as a criticizer of Living Dead, but I don't know why they missed the opportunity to make DRK's ultimate move be something like, "Souleater - DRK sacrifices HP to do more damage, HP cannot go under 1 while under this effect." and give it like a 6 second duration with the same recast it has now. That basically makes it a stronger holmgang with a longer CD to balance it.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Issues with cross-hotbar space and hotkeys is part of why people are so concerned of button bloat

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I use cross-hotbars, and I can accomodate more because I've grown used to the "Hold R1 and press a direction/facepad button" technique since my abilities don't all fit on 2 bars anyways. I use R2+L2's extra hotbar for PvP, and a 3rd hotbar for sprint. I could easily get adjusted to using that 3rd hotbar now, which would give me an extra 15 abilities, but again that's just me I guess.

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

-Personal limit breaks.

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I too wish they'd make LB's personal, like in frontlines. I love my DRK's LB so much and wish I could use it in every fight.

My bad ideas for a new tank in 4.0

Remove debuffs from WAR, NIN, DK, and PLD. (heresy, i know)
Make a new support tank that uses debuffs/buffs to hold threat.

Tp attacks keep up the physical debuff/buff.
Mp attacks keep up the magic debuff/buff.

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Originally Posted by Anienai

My bad ideas for a new tank in 4.0

Remove debuffs from WAR, NIN, DK, and PLD. (heresy, i know)
Make a new support tank that uses debuffs/buffs to hold threat.

Tp attacks keep up the physical debuff/buff.
Mp attacks keep up the magic debuff/buff.

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A support tank can work without removing debuffs from every other class.

^ But what kind of debuffs would that be, so it woudnt be overpowered?
INT Down, maybe STR? some magic resistance down, physical would be too OP i think?
Support tank can't have too much of those debuffs too.

I quess it would be normal job with different set of debuffs palette.

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

I quess it would be normal job with different set of debuffs palette.

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Most likely.

My guess is that a support styled tank would have to balance buffs and debuffs with enmity generation. If we're sticking with the current formula, they'd have 3 primary combos and a few oGCDs/CD's. That's 6 potential moves which can grant either enmity or a debuff of some kind, followed by CD's/oGCD's which create buffs for the team Personally, in order to not make the job too slanted in favour of offense or defense, I picture a tank like this needing to utilize stance dancing more frequently than the others, in order to maintain a balance of enmity vs effect. In order to avoid overlapping buffs with other jobs, one of their moves would likely buff the potency or effect of other party abilities for a limited time. Not my cup of tea, personally, but I could see how it would work.

Now you mentioned stance dance, i reminded myself that samurai-tank started to be a tabu topic.

Actually all this hype for RDM tank made me think a little about 4.0 tank introduced. So SAM will not be stance-dancing tank with HP increased tank stance with single-target focusing skills? since DRK is similar to PLD, i would expect next tank to be similar to WAR, having dibs on self-buffing style of gameplay.
So far my speculations were like that. But since no one is saying a thing, i start to believe SAM will be a DPS, while tank role will be taken by some kind of weird class that existed only in certain FF episode. Like Viking... Ew.

Because i still discard RDM as tank idea.

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

since DRK is similar to PLD, i would expect next tank to be similar to WAR..

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Sadly, I am expecting the same.

If it is indeed a SAM tank, I hope the hype and enthusiasm surrounding SAMURAI will coerce SE into dabbling in some new tanking concepts to deliver on that hype. And maybe that dabbling would bring some fresh ideas to tanking meta overall, bleeding over to the existing tanks, too. For example 4.x could be about more active mitigation mechanics for all tanks

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

Actually all this hype for RDM tank made me think a little about 4.0 tank introduced. So SAM will not be stance-dancing tank with HP increased tank stance with single-target focusing skills? since DRK is similar to PLD, i would expect next tank to be similar to WAR, having dibs on self-buffing style of gameplay.

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It depends on how much inspiration they take from FFXI. Samurai in XI actually had a DPS stance and a defensive (not tank, defensive) stance of which you could only have one active at a time. The dps stance was called Hasso, it gave attack speed, accuracy, and damage. The defensive stance was called Seigan and essentially when used in conjunction with another buff you would dodge or counter physical attacks aimed at you.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

It depends on how much inspiration they take from FFXI. Samurai in XI actually had a DPS stance and a defensive (not tank, defensive) stance of which you could only have one active at a time. The dps stance was called Hasso, it gave attack speed, accuracy, and damage. The defensive stance was called Seigan and essentially when used in conjunction with another buff you would dodge or counter physical attacks aimed at you.

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Considering how much inspiration they took to make Dark Knight I'm gonna go with not much.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

I hope the hype and enthusiasm surrounding SAMURAI will coerce SE into dabbling in some new tanking concepts to deliver on that hype.

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He he he he... A-am i c-crying? ;__;

yeah, i don't even have hopes to be honest. i am afraid SE focuses all their attention around new ideas and gaming experience (like those that will be introduced in 3.3 :P) rather than improving/changing/expanding classes and jobs.

"it works! Don't touch it now, or it will stop working!"

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

He he he he... A-am i c-crying? ;__;

yeah, i don't even have hopes to be honest. i am afraid SE focuses all their attention around new ideas and gaming experience (like those that will be introduced in 3.3 :P) rather than improving/changing/expanding classes and jobs.

"it works! Don't touch it now, or it will stop working!"

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You made a funny joke.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Most likely.

My guess is that a support styled tank ...

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I... I thought this was PLD?

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

So far my speculations were like that. But since no one is saying a thing, i start to believe SAM will be a DPS, while tank role will be taken by some kind of weird class that existed only in certain FF episode.

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If I remember correctly, SE has already said that Samurai won't be a tank. Yoshi-P stated in an interview that he "felt" like Samurai was more of a dps job rather than a Tank job. They haven't announced anything official about it yet, but it's most likely that Sam is being developed for dps ... unless Yoshi-P was just trying to throw everyone off, that is.

Regardless, that interview is probably why people stopped talking about Samurai as a Tank job, because most of us are assuming that Yoshi-P kiboshed the idea.

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Originally Posted by Kaizer

I... I thought this was PLD?

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Very amusing lol. Sadly, no. Outside of PvP arenas, War's single slashing debuff provides more party support then all of Pld's support moves combined, because most of Pld's support functions aren't needed. You can never have "too much" dps, but you most definitely can have "too much" defense. If the party isn't using it, then it's not needed.

Ideally, if they do decide to do a "support styled" tank, then it would most certainly have to take its queues from War, not Pld. Otherwise no one would use it, because it wouldn't be useful.

LOL an original idea! A low dps tank that uses random cards to buff its party members like war cries, I mean coome on, it fits the tendancy of making new original jobs completely unique by having to be either or, maybe itll have a paladin stance or a warrior stance too

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Originally Posted by Februs

Very amusing lol. Sadly, no. Outside of PvP arenas, War's single slashing debuff provides more party support then all of Pld's support moves combined, because most of Pld's support functions aren't needed. You can never have "too much" dps, but you most definitely can have "too much" defense. If the party isn't using it, then it's not needed.

Ideally, if they do decide to do a "support styled" tank, then it would most certainly have to take its queues from War, not Pld. Otherwise no one would use it, because it wouldn't be useful.

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Something something Divine Veil something spinny tornado of death.

Not to argue that war's constant 10% damage down isn't approaching broken levels of stupidly useful, but PLD's Divine Veil is an extremely useful and easy to activate defensive skill that for progression can be the difference between wipe now or wipe l8r.

A true beast master job. (Think of vincent valentine) That has different forms of monsters.

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

A true beast master job. (Think of vincent valentine) That has different forms of monsters.

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lol lycanthrope job activate! I'm no expert on BST but from the description it seems like it was a take on the Tamer from FF5, basically the poke ball master, Im not too sure how it would get implemented in xiv but i can definately see use for a whip as a weapon for the job uh oh ogre battle beastmasters used whips too....hmmm

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

lol lycanthrope job activate! I'm no expert on BST but from the description it seems like it was a take on the Tamer from FF5, basically the poke ball master, Im not too sure how it would get implemented in xiv but i can definately see use for a whip as a weapon for the job uh oh ogre battle beastmasters used whips too....hmmm

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Considering SMN, I dount the devs will be too keen on "basiclay the poke ball master" jobs, The Lycanthropy idea is more likely. They cna even base the story off the Ishgardians and/or XI's Blue Mage (which had the adventurer mutated and became essentially a human-shaped chimera)

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Originally Posted by Violette

Not to argue that war's constant 10% damage down isn't approaching broken levels of stupidly useful, but PLD's Divine Veil is an extremely useful and easy to activate defensive skill that for progression can be the difference between wipe now or wipe l8r.

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Useful, sure, but there is a limit to how useful it actually is, even in progression raids.

The bottom line is that there is no fight in the entire game in which Divine Veil cannot be easily done without or replaced by adequate healing. If the healers can mitigate or heal the dmg without the use of DV, then that extra defense is unnecessary or not even used. Depending on the circumstances and how well or poorly the raid is preforming, DV can literally have no effect whatsoever on anything, regardless of when it's used. It does not negate the need for healing following raid wide damage, so healers still have to cast. Heals work off of fixed potencies, so the amount healed is the same regardless of how much dmg the shield mitigated (so long as that value is below 100%). That means that healers get no additional Dps time and no mana conservation through the use of DV, assuming they weren't already falling behind. The only time it's useful is if your party is already struggling, or if the shield is enough to save a party member from certain death.

Compare that to the Slashing Resistance Debuff granted by Storm's Eye. There is literally never a time in which this is not being used. Even if all of your dps are casters and your second tank DC's, the War who applied the buff is still using it. Applying it is an instant increase to Dps, and there is literally no limit to how much Dps a party can use. No one ever says, "good job on that dps check guys, but I think we need to slow it down a bit."

In the end we're comparing utility ceilings in which one move simply has no ceiling. There is a limit to how much defense is actually used by a party, but there is no limit to how much Dps is used by a party.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Considering SMN, I dount the devs will be too keen on "basiclay the poke ball master" jobs, The Lycanthropy idea is more likely. They cna even base the story off the Ishgardians and/or XI's Blue Mage (which had the adventurer mutated and became essentially a human-shaped chimera)

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So true... I dont even know what theyre trying to do with smn unless they plan in 4,0 for you to eat your pet and do a super attack thats got the smn summon sort of appeal. I always thought disipitation would fit summoners better than it did sch but thats me

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Originally Posted by Februs

In the end we're comparing utility ceilings in which one move simply has no ceiling. There is a limit to how much defense is actually used by a party, but there is no limit to how much Dps is used by a party.

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Actually there have been several end game fights where Damage has to be held to deal with mechanics, which resulted in conserve/burn phases, but that was back in 2.XX so it's not too much discuss.

And of course the slashing debuff is always applicable, but is DPS utility/support/defense? As I said, the 10% DAMAGE DOWN from Warrior is universally useful, but there were cases where this was not applicable. Same as the Paladin's 10% str down or the DRK/MNK's int down, they are great damage mitigation tools in fights with soft enrages (A8S, T9, T13?(kind of but not really but kind of)) and when there are SOFT enrages, there is never enough defense because a dead dps does no dps.

There were fights were without every cooldown possible (including LB3 defensively), you would wipe due to the large amount of damage incoming. Divine Veil is useful in the same way Aldoquim and Succor are useful, they prevent damage meaning it doe not have to be healed if the shielding is adequate. So while you say

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Originally Posted by Februs

Heals work off of fixed potencies, so the amount healed is the same regardless of how much dmg the shield mitigated (so long as that value is below 100%). That means that healers get no additional Dps time and no mana conservation through the use of DV, assuming they weren't already falling behind.

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You're ignoring the fact that stoneskin/shields are useful precisely because they prevent healing having to be done.

You pop DV during sizzlesparks so that the MedicaII ticks will heal people up or so the second healer can dps for a little longer, not because a healer is falling behind. So that the people have that extra barrier of HP during the AoE's from Blaster or so that the debuffs can be passed safer.
You use DV so that burst damage is mitigated across the party, reducing healing load in non-constant damage phases.


It's a tool that allows you to actively pre-mitigate damage so your healers can stay ahead of both healing and dps.
If you have everything on farm then yes, take a dps composition because your group is 10000% perfect. But that's not what defense is all about. It's surviving long enough to get to that point.


It doesn't negate the healing, but if that's your train of thought can you explain why parties don't go Diurnal Ast/Whm in raid for MAXIMUM HEALS?

I was under the impression they stuck with whm/sch honestly....

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

I was under the impression they stuck with whm/sch honestly....

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Sch+1, but as Februs was saying "barrier's don't stop the amount of healing that will be done", it was the logical question about why raid groups are formed like they currently are.

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Originally Posted by Februs

SE has already said that Samurai won't be a tank.

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Can you please gimme link?

Anyway, if it wasn't said officially, it wasn't said at all. :P
Not the first time though.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Actually there have been several end game fights where Damage has to be held to deal with mechanics, which resulted in conserve/burn phases, but that was back in 2.XX so it's not too much discuss.

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If we're including old content, then yes. There are a tiny percentage of fights in which additional defense was an asset... kind of. The thing is, shields don't really help with soft enrages either. The increased Dmg output of a soft enrage will, quite literally, melt a 10% shield within seconds (even if that shield is based on the Pld's hp pool). You're not buying your team a massive amount of time here. Unless they were at the precipice of clearing the fight before they hit the soft enrage, then the shield doesn't beat additional Dps.

Further, that additional Dps can avoid the situation entirely. Again, we're comparing something that might or could be useful to something that universally is useful. Boosting Dps output to skip phases and enrage timers actively prevents that damage from happening in the first place. The proof of concept is actually in the old fights you are mentioning. Keep in mind that Pld didn't have DV back then, yet those fights were cleared just fine without it relying purely on the healers. Out of all those fights, only 2 of them (Ultima Weapon Extreme and T13) used the tank LB 3 as a valid tactic, but even those fights are not good comparisons because it didn't function the same way as DV. The Tank LB 3 is not a shield. It's a 50% mitigation. Once raid parties were adequately geared, even that was deemed unnecessary over additional Dps.

Storm's Path only makes the discrepancy between Pld and War support worse. Unless I'm mistaken, the amount of eHp provided by DV does exceed the 10% reduction in dmg given by storm's path (assuming the Pld in question has adequate hp); however, that shield only mitigates a single hit. Whereas, Storms Path can, potentially, mitigate the entire fight. Obviously we're delving into some serious "what if" territory here, but the fact is that Storm's Path has far greater potential in the off tank position than DV does because it can be kept up 100% of the time; whereas, DV can, at most, be used roughly 3 times in an 8-10 minute fight.

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Originally Posted by Violette

Divine Veil is useful in the same way Aldoquim and Succor are useful, they prevent damage meaning it does not have to be healed if the shielding is adequate ...You're ignoring the fact that stoneskin/shields are useful precisely because they prevent healing having to be done.

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Here you are actually pointing out exactly why DV isn't as useful as War's party support. Firstly, you mention the utility of DV while, in the same breath, you also mention two healer abilities that can replace DV at a moments notice without cooldown restrictions. So the question becomes, why bring a Pld's DV when you could just bring a Healer who can do it better? Better yet, why not bring a healer and a War, who has universally useful party support? Your answer to this would seem to be:

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Originally Posted by Violette

You use DV so that burst damage is mitigated across the party, reducing healing load in non-constant damage phases.

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Only that doesn't quite follow either. Healers can plan in advance for those phases without requiring an extra shield from the Pld. With or without that shield, a Whm is still going to cast Medica II before a raid wide AoE, for example. A Scholar is still going to Adlo/succor in the same circumstances. Regardless of whether or not the Pld uses DV, the healers are acting in the exact same way they would normally. Having DV active doesn't change a thing, unless, of course, they fell a bit behind. Instances of "non-constant" damage make no difference either, exactly because the Dmg is not constant. An additional complication can also happen if DV works against the healer's HoT. If the HoT is working on past damage while DV is active, then all is well. However, if DV is soaking the damage while the target's Hp is full, then the healer's HoT is not being used and is wasted. If DV falls off or is broken, then the HoT is doing all of the work at a reduced potency (caused by DV's shield). On the other hand, Storm's Path actively works with the HoT for it's full duration, regardless of the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Violette

It doesn't negate the healing, but if that's your train of thought can you explain why parties don't go Diurnal Ast/Whm in raid for MAXIMUM HEALS?

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To answer that, I give you the same response I did in my previous post:

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Originally Posted by Februs

There is a limit to how much defense is actually used by a party, but there is no limit to how much Dps is used by a party.

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Having additional defense (even in the form of active healing) is not always required or even useful. There is a limit to how much healing is just overkill; whereas there is no overkill to Dps. You can never have too much Dps, but you can have too much healing/defense. For that reason, Pld's party support is naturally limited. War's, on the other hand, is not, because they can play both ends of the field.

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

Can you please gimme link?

Anyway, if it wasn't said officially, it wasn't said at all. :P
Not the first time though.

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That's true. I still hope they'll go back on it, and it's not like Yoshi-P comes up with every idea that is used in the game. I'm sure the Dev team will ultimately do what they think is best. Here's that link for you, though.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...12_673698.html

If I remember correctly, he says something about how the current image of samurai that they are working with is leaning towards its strong Dps, but this is a pretty old interview (like early HW). That image could have changed...maybe?