Nerf "Coming Into Its Own"

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Originally Posted by Falar

The current requirements are insanity.

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Not at all. You are a tank player correct? Then listen, here's what I'm doing.

I do all of my roulettes every day, reaping the Adventurer in Need reward as a tank. This is how I earn my tomestones and gil. (Yes, gil. I kid you not. I'm a filthy non-crafter.) I also do my ARR beast tribe quests, which grants me tokens I can spend on relic items as well. Note that I focus on the 4 first ARR beast tribes, as the HW ones are slower in the long run. But bear with me now. When I find myself with extra time, I queue up for some Alexander Gordias, usually either turn 1 or 4. These grant me Precision items I can trade in for relic items.

By the time I reach 80/80 relic items, I'm more than enough stocked up for gil from all the roulettes. I also sell excess grade 4 materia gained from the ARR beast tribe quests. Finally I buy the crafted items with my well-earned gil from a crafter. Any crafter. Just put up a PF asking for one, and you'll find one.

That's it. Not difficult in the slightest. Only time-consuming.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Understandable, my post on this page (default setting... not sure about people who view 20 posts or so per page) was kinda long.

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I do apologize. I goofed.

Apologized accepted.

Also I'm leveling all of my classes so I'm not doing the Adventurer in Need bonuses, which help a bit with the Gil Count. Trying to cap all my classes first so my Relic is secondary on the list but working on it at the side.

I got 50/80 Items collected so far and 0 on the HQ Items. Also finally got all 5 Aether Oils so I'm set. I'm not rushing, just taking my time on this grind. Doing the BT Quests helps with leveling my classes as I got my Battles classes to 56 at least (PLD, NIN, WHM, and DRK are at 60 atm) and my Gathering is at 60 and I do make some Gil on them... selling the Maps help a lot as they're selling at high prices on MB. Crafting only got CUL at 60 and today I have got CRP to 59... my rest of my crafts are at 57 and 58 atm. Slowly, but surely I'll have everything done even though I wish I could do it faster.

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Originally Posted by Torunya

Not at all. You are a tank player correct? Then listen, here's what I'm doing.

I do all of my roulettes every day, reaping the Adventurer in Need reward as a tank. This is how I earn my tomestones and gil. (Yes, gil. I kid you not. I'm a filthy non-crafter.) I also do my ARR beast tribe quests, which grants me tokens I can spend on relic items as well. Note that I focus on the 4 first ARR beast tribes, as the HW ones are slower in the long run. But bear with me now. When I find myself with extra time, I queue up for some Alexander Gordias, usually either turn 1 or 4. These grant me Precision items I can trade in for relic items.

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That's nearly what I'm doing now. I do all daily roulettes, getting the adventurer in need bonus then I do all my beast tribes. My only disadvantage here is that all of my ARR ones are lv1. I never did anything with them until now.

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Originally Posted by Falar

There are varying levels of grind man, from slight to almost impossible. This one is way out of what I would call "normal". I would prefer a step that required going through FORTY dungeons in a certain order.

The current requirements are insanity.

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Well, we could always go back to the atma farming? I mean, farming two weeks straight for my first atma. That seems nice, only 11 more to go. I honestly had no problem with this relic and i've had worse.
Sure it isn't the easiest/fastest relic to do. But thats what we have had in the past. And it might drive you nuts. But nerfing things is not the option. They should do something new, that i would agree with.

^Unfortunately for you they WILL nerf... they stated in a Live Letter before that when Patch 3.3 the previous step of the Relic will be adjusted as they add in the new step. Or was it Patch 3.35? Either way it is going to be nerf one way or another.

Anyway I'm back to farming Tomes and possible do the Alex Runs to get some of the items out of the way. 30 more to go.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

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Not really unfortunately for me. I made my money, I've got my relic ages ago. I just don't see the point in why people always want things easier, And i'm not just talking about this game.
The last few online games i've played it seems more frequent how people keep asking for nerfs. people EXPECT hand outs when something is hard or takes long to get, And i'm sorry that i don't like that. I've seen some people in this forum claim they play 5-6 hours a day and it takes to long, Really? So many options in doing this, Hell level your tank do some alex runs and you get a few awesome mounts while you're at it! Maybe do some Tribes, so many options.

Yet people complain, complain, complain.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

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I'm inclined to agree, as I'm under the same impression.

The game already caters to both casual and hardcore players in terms of content. So if someone only has a few hours a day to play the game, it won't stop them from doing a few quick roulettes and racking up tomestones for high-level tomestone weapons and gear that are equal in level to relic items, etc. With the exception of raid-tier Savage items being slightly higher, of course. So there are options.
Even solely doing your Expert roulette a few days a week alone will max your Lore tomestones. And that's spending only around 30 minutes a day playing the game. Even for the casual player with few hours of playtime, there are options. But if you want the relic weapon more, you will have to invest as much time as everyone else. There's no getting around this, but at least SE are giving the casual player a choice.

Think of it this way as well. I would love to clear A8S, but that's still a distant dream for me because of its difficulty. Does that mean it should be nerfed? Not at all. I just need to invest the time and effort into clearing that kind of content, just like everybody else. And A8S is actually bloody difficult, in comparison to the meek relic grind. Just because something is difficult/time-consuming, does not mean it should be made easier to pamper lazy players. There are alternatives, so if one option requires too much time than you as a player can manage, then go for the less laborious option. It's there for that very reason.

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Originally Posted by Blitzace

Not really unfortunately for me. I made my money, I've got my relic ages ago. I just don't see the point in why people always want things easier, And i'm not just talking about this game.
The last few online games i've played it seems more frequent how people keep asking for nerfs. people EXPECT hand outs when something is hard or takes long to get, And i'm sorry that i don't like that. I've seen some people in this forum claim they play 5-6 hours a day and it takes to long, Really? So many options in doing this, Hell level your tank do some alex runs and you get a few awesome mounts while you're at it! Maybe do some Tribes, so many options.

Yet people complain, complain, complain.

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This.

People use the weirdest arguements for it too.

There are people who have been playing since this step was released, claiming they only have half or so by now...
Well clearly you don't even play enough to consider this quest. Even casually buying these thing should have got them this by now, yet they seem to think they are entitled to it, because it's in the game.

They see that this next step is a breeze and then keep making up arguements, because they see the benefit now, and think they should have it. Maybe they thought they were smart, "oh, I'm going to wait until the next step is released, when they nerf it, why would I do it now!" And they believe that because they made this assumption, SE has to do it, even though they haven't done that before.

I think that the step isn't that bad. Yea for me being deployed it doesn't work out to well with my bad internet connection. Yet I'm sitting at 29/80 and with most of the crafted items. I don't care if they nerfed it or not. I mean ill complete it once i get back. I just wish i had the internet and time to actually do it like i did for the last relic. To me if they nerf the step fine. If they don't thats fine also.

The step isn't bad, but it's tedious and boring to do. I rather do the Primal EX fights or 20 dungeons... at least that's more fun than grinding day in and day out of Dailies to get tokens. Though the Alex runs are like that, but it's sort of mind-numbing. Hopefully the next step after ilvl230 is better and more fun engaging than the ilvl210 step.

some people say that the relic isnt as strong as raid tier anymore...but uhmm..it was NEVER tronger than raid tier on release..coil was always the better weapon vs relic for all versions untill a few months have passed and they upgraded the relic. when t9 came out, the highest relic was i110, it wasnt until a good deal later that it became i115. same deal with the t13 relic vs raid wep.and this is the exact same formula they have always used, when the new relic step comes out, it will most likely be just as good as the current raid weapon, and if not, it will on the step after this.

Well, from what I've gathered, the Zenith Relic Weapon was on par with the Raid Weapon at the time of its release (putting it right up there with the T5 Raid Weapon). So actually the Relic Weapon, when it FIRST came out, was immediately better than the Raid Weapon so you might want to retracted that statement of it NEVER being stronger than Raid Tier content on release.

It was only after the Raiders whined about it (from what I've heard) and then Yoshi-P changed it so Relic Weapons were never again better than the Raid Weapons. So when the next Raid content came out the Relic was also behind then (putting it 5 ilvl lower than the Raid Weapon) making it second best instead of BiS. It was only until the end of the Relic's life cycle in 2.X that it became the BiS Weapon to get along with the T13 Raid Weapon.

The Relic just becomes obsolete soon after when the next Patch comes out with new Weapon that have better stats than the Relic. Only until the Customize Stats for the Relic comes in, most of the Relic are subpar to the easier Lore and faster to obtain (depends on Player Skill and Teamwork) Savage Raid Weapon. We'll see what the next step in 3.3 (or was it 3.4?) has to offer for the Relic... I'm going to work on my Relic, but the NIN Relic for my main has such horrible stats on it.

It's an investment weapon, but it really puts a dampen on the spirit to work on the earlier parts of it. Well these things aren't ever that easy, but at least make it fun while working on it. It's like a chores... no one EVER wants to do chores. :P

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

no one EVER wants to do chores. :P

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If we're talking about the method of the grind, I would still argue that it's much better than it potentially could have been. At present we can obtain the relic items for stage 3 of the Anima grind from quite a different number of ways. Poetic and Esoteric tomes, Allied seals, Beast Tribe quests and Treasure maps. Correct me if I missed anything. This step of the relic grind has at least 4 different ways of which you can go about grinding for your relic. For most it wouldn't even have to be a grind, as these methods coincide with what you would be doing in-game anyway. So even if you weren't consciously grinding for the relic, you would still eventually obtain it simply from doing the activities intended within the game.

The original Zodiac relic step from Nexus to Zodiac Braves was a big step similar to this. Take the Sacred Spring Water in this example, obtained from Auriana in Mor Dhona. That is the only place you can obtain that tomestone item for the Zodiac relic. SE learned from their past experiences and has given us 4 different ways to go about it this time.

The crafted items on the other hand requires the player to be resourceful (I talked about this earlier).

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Originally Posted by Galborion

Alexander Gordias.

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Ah right. The precision items as well. Thanks for the reminder.

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Originally Posted by Torunya

Poetic and Esoteric tomes, Allied seals, Beast Tribe quests and Treasure maps. Correct me if I missed anything.

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Alexander Gordias.

Oh I'm doing BT Quests and Roulettes daily to earn the items... I have 54/80 items collected so far using this method. I can't see myself doing the Alex runs over and over again, I'm simply doing each turn 10 times and not doing it again to gain at least 4 more items to my count.

It feels somewhat boring really, but I'm also trying to level the rest of my classes to 60 as well at the same time so it's taking some time as well. At least the BT Quests and Roulette are helping with the leveling even if I lose out on some Tomes when using classes under 60 for some of the other Roulettes that aren't Expert and Level 60. Haven't done the Maps yet but I have one right now and hopefully I get something. Hunts... currently used 2000 Seals for two items and I'm trying to get the Wyvern Mount so that's taking a back-peddle if there was anything with the Centurio Seals.

And about the Sacred Spring Water... you only need 4 of them one for Relic, not 80. Also those Bombard Cores they really should've cut the prices on them as you need 4 of them as well but not too bad. I see the Nexus to Zodiac Brave simpler and easier than the ilvl210 step of the Anima Weapon. Though the Crafted Item parts can go die in a ditch... at least Zodiac Brave was 8 HQ Items. Well I'm get there when I get there.

When they nerf it, the way I'd prefer them to do it initially is simply to add more sources of the items. PVPers are swimming in Wolf Marks and the rewards aren't great these days, so let them trade a bunch of those for two types of unidentifiable items if they want to. Centurio marks are useless nowadays, so give them another use and let us trade four books for an unidentifiable in Idyllshire. Heck, why not sell them at the GC vendor at a high price for those who don't burn them on other things? The Diadem vendor? An alternative use for your weekly Void Ark treasure? A random low% drop chance from HW primals or synched Coil runs? Anything which increases the population of people going out and doing things other than locking themselves in easy roulette speedruns relentlessly several times a day is a win, especially for servers with small populations.

I'm not grumpy about the current system as the crafted items are cheap on my server and I'm in no hurry to finish my unidentifiables, but acknowledging that different people prefer to grind different kinds of content will make it less tedious and encourage participation in other content. To be honest the only hard thing about the grind is that it requires patience because you'll probably eventually make it through tomestones alone even if you don't try. Eventually.

You can keep the 20 unidentified items but ditch the hq requirements. Too much of it is locked behind diadem. I hate the thought of paying 1.5 mil gil on average for a ilvl 200 item that even after i do the next part is going to be overshadowed by an ilvl 240 item.

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Originally Posted by Grimr

You can keep the 20 unidentified items but ditch the hq requirements. Too much of it is locked behind diadem. I hate the thought of paying 1.5 mil gil on average for a ilvl 200 item that even after i do the next part is going to be overshadowed by an ilvl 240 item.

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Try to make friends with some crafters. I've traded several sets of relic items to acquaintances and FC mates for their help in Diadem. They help me get the aether currents and bait mobs away from nodes if needed. A smart player can collect enough bot/min materials for several sets of items in 45 mins of someone baiting mobs for them, so it's not a bad trade-off at all. *shrugs*

Honestly, the most time consuming part is the pterodactyls, but once you have aether currents all you gotta do is go fish.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

This is exactly why they haven't nerfed it yet, they aren't going to give you a free pass to the 230 weapon. They seem to be falling into a one hard, one easy step set up for it. Don't expect one hard step to be nerfed until the next comes out. If you don't like the grind, your best option is to either do it passively, just buying UI as you get the Poe/Eso/Beast/Allied currency and buying your lore weapon, then be ready for the 240 step, or just ignore the relic completely. The relic provides benefits for those who chose to grind it out, but the cost is the grind.

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it really far from free pass right now, and just for a reminder, a i230 weapon (lore weapon) take only 7 week and a very very light grinding for get one. same for the i210 token weapon it can be done in the day. however, you can turn this how you want, you will need more of 3 week to pours almost all your time into it (as casual player) for get a i210 weapon.

this quest was made like this for give people a reason to stay with the 3.1 patch, and seriously i do think the i240 step will be something on par. instead to offer us a true content designed for make us feel progressing as player in our jobs that get the weapon. we need to farm low level content for get one i210 weapon, seriously?

ps: and before someone come talk me about instant gratification, it's more about getting something that are decent... make a farm worth of 3+ week of effort because... the raid is hard, when the weapon from the raid is better is a poor escuse.
even the: it's a weapon for the people that love grind, in all honesty most of the player are tired and sick of this sort of timed content. what people want is not always instant gratification but feeling rewarded for a true effort. not everyone have a static for face raid or the time to invest into it. then they want something that will make them feel like they are progressing... the token system at the base is not means to be used like it's used in FF14, it's normally for make sure people that will work hard in a content and have no luck in drop will get reward. that what was the goal of the token system in mmorpg.

but with FF14 it's did become the goal... it's become the purpose of why we play... and it's bad, in way too many way.... it's bad. it's a easy way to create content without take the risk to offer real content for a large part of the community, because soo far the part of the community doing raid is less of 10%.... means more of 90% aren't doing raid and are only working with the token system.

why?
because some don't pve (pvp player)
some don't have the time (casual player)
some don't find the appeal to partage content with that much player, that will recquire a strict execution (mid core player)
and some don't have the people for partake this sort of content

you have even the rp player that will have no interest at all into this....
but instead to offer a decent content in different group category, they focus solely on the raid part. because wow did that... and look how it work well for them now, wow is loosing tons of people per month. because they have refuse to offer new experience and try to offer new type of content.

the relic is a poor escuse for not try to offer another type of content for the endgame... and i hold against yoshida when he did said while the fanfest of london, that it was not possible to make a challenging content for 4 player... what is false! they hide behind this idea that is not possible, because most them are old player of old game and the genre didn't evolve for the last 20 years. time to wake up. before it's too late.

time to offer true content for the relic designed specially for that.
time to offer another activity for the endgame that don't involve 8 player... but 4 or 24 (for the big FC out) because hm dungeon or void ark are not that... they are poor joke.

I'll try my best to answer you, but I apologize in advance if I misunderstand anything.

Never mind, I fell asleep while editing. And it looks like someone else responded anyway, so I'll leave it there. q.q

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it really far from free pass right now, and just for a reminder, a i230 weapon (lore weapon) take only 7 week and a very very light grinding for get one. same for the i210 token weapon it can be done in the day.

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You can finish the 210 in 3 weeks and the 230 in one week of concertied grinding. ( you have had 4+ months to complete the 3 week step, that means pretty light grinding... kind of a free pass)

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

this quest was made like this for give people a reason to stay with the 3.1 patch, and seriously i do think the i240 step will be something on par. instead to offer us a true content designed for make us feel progressing as player in our jobs that get the weapon. we need to farm low level content for get one i210 weapon, seriously?

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The relic quest is not designed to be a relic quest, it is a tool the devs use to keep older content going and keep us busy, nothing more. It will likely always be this way, and that sucks, I don't disagree that it's bad for a "Relic" quest.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

ps: and before someone come talk me about instant gratification, it's more about getting something that are decent... make a farm worth of 3+ week of effort because...

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It should take about 4 weeks to get the relic to 230 from 200. You also save 2+ weeks of Lore that you would have to spend if you went that route. Are the three weeks plus 1000 extra Lore worth the effort.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

what people want is not always instant gratification but feeling rewarded for a true effort.

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True effort? you gain it passively. The only true effort is the raid weapon, and getting a static and making the time for it is part of the effort.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

but with FF14 it's did become the goal... it's become the purpose of why we play... and it's bad, in way too many way.... it's bad. it's a easy way to create content without take the risk to offer real content for a large part of the community, because soo far the part of the community doing raid is less of 10%.... means more of 90% aren't doing raid and are only working with the token system.

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I don't disagree that it is a bad system that they abuse. I have stated previously how I would like it to be, and that requires far too many resources for them to do it. However, nerfing the quest does not fix how it is bad.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

why?
because some don't pve (pvp player)
some don't have the time (casual player)
some don't find the appeal to partage content with that much player, that will recquire a strict execution (mid core player)
and some don't have the people for partake this sort of content

you have even the rp player that will have no interest at all into this....
but instead to offer a decent content in different group category, they focus solely on the raid part. because wow did that... and look how it work well for them now, wow is loosing tons of people per month. because they have refuse to offer new experience and try to offer new type of content.

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I think a language barrier got me here.

I think you are saying the relic doesn't cater to the minorities though, when it caters to everyone, if they don't have an interest, they can get the lore.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

and i hold against yoshida when he did said while the fanfest of london, that it was not possible to make a challenging content for 4 player... what is false! they hide behind this idea that is not possible, because most them are old player of old game and the genre didn't evolve for the last 20 years. time to wake up. before it's too late.

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Didn't see that comment, but I agree with you, though it doesn't really have much to do with the relic quest.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

time to offer true content for the relic designed specially for that.
time to offer another activity for the endgame that don't involve 8 player... but 4 or 24 (for the big FC out) because hm dungeon or void ark are not that... they are poor joke.

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I agree they should offer that content, but I feel it should have nothing to do with the relic quest, at least not more than a side assignment, it should not be the focus of developing that content.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

You can finish the 210 in 3 weeks and the 230 in one week of concertied grinding. ( you have had 4+ months to complete the 3 week step, that means pretty light grinding... kind of a free pass)

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This various between people, I'm still working on the 210 step since launch so that's about 4 months now. So, no, not exactly. Is it easy to do? Yes. Is it long. Absolutely. People pace themselves at their own speed.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

The relic quest is not designed to be a relic quest, it is a tool the devs use to keep older content going and keep us busy, nothing more. It will likely always be this way, and that sucks, I don't disagree that it's bad for a "Relic" quest.

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Sadly I agree with this part... it's not a "real" Relic Quest. It's just a Side-Quest to prolong old content on the game and that's bad game design. If it's not fun you're doing it wrong. I frickin' hope they change this, they changed the Zodiac Brave Weapon start because Raiders complained that a Relic was better than a Raid Weapon at the time.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

It should take about 4 weeks to get the relic to 230 from 200. You also save 2+ weeks of Lore that you would have to spend if you went that route. Are the three weeks plus 1000 extra Lore worth the effort.

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Again, this various between people. The fastest and most focus of people can do it in 4 weeks but for a "casual" content and for some casual players it takes longer than a month. I work as a Tax Filer and these 4 months have eaten up a lot of time so I cannot work on the Relic as much as I want. Plus I feel like I'm going to fall asleep doing the Roulettes day in and day out and even the BT Quests are getting a little tiring despite the worthwhile reward of Tier IV Materia.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

True effort? you gain it passively. The only true effort is the raid weapon, and getting a static and making the time for it is part of the effort.

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Well for a Weapon I'm working on I want it to feel like the "effort" was worth it and feel "truly" rewarded going through everything to improve my weapon... only for it to come short in the long run. For most Anima Weapons they're like Tier 3 Weapons where Lore Weapons are Tier 2, being the 2nd best, and finally Raid Weapons being Tier 1... the best of the best and mainly due to the stats on the Weapons. For Lore Weapons it takes 3 weeks (the same effort for the 210 Relic as you said) and 7 weeks for Midas 4 to get it unless you do Raids and get the Tomestone from the AS6-8 content and upgrade from there on the 3rd week.

For Raid Weapons if you have perfect schedule and perfect teamwork you can get it within the first few weeks. Relic here, for most people, takes way longer than 3 weeks and requires Crafter classes which the Lore and Raid Weapons don't require and so the Relic Weapon is the "weakest" of the three types of Weapons. I know this is the beginning phases of the Relic, but honestly the current formula for it is bad and the effort you put into making this Relic is worthless and mostly a waste of time. In the end if might become BiS like the Zeta Weapon was, but until then the way they're handling the Relic in HW is very poorly.

Heck, what are the Japanese players' response and thoughts are on the Anima Relic?

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

This various between people, I'm still working on the 210 step since launch so that's about 4 months now. So, no, not exactly. Is it easy to do? Yes. Is it long. Absolutely. People pace themselves at their own speed.

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Please re-read this is a reponse to. And what that was responding to. Not to be insulting, but your busy schedule has no bearing on what I said or if the quest should be nerfed. It is not a criteria that should be considered.

A word of advice though, if you cannont complete it in this time, either you are not doing it efficently, even with the job, or it is really not for you, and the Lore weapon is more your flavour. Just get around to completing the step passively and have the glamour, or have it for when work eases up a bit.

Also I do not agree with your assesment of it being the weekest, and think the stated criteara you used to select that was poor. In the end, even if the stats are not the prefered ones on some classes, most people won't notice the difference.

Not doing it efficiently? You're the one who's not getting it. :(

I'm working on it at my own pace and picking the steps I want to do to go about getting it. I'll eventually get it when I get all the items, but I am in no way in a rush to get the Relic. I main NIN and the stats on the Relic make it the "weakest" Weapon for NIN where the Raid and Lore Weapons are the more efficient choices. Plus people do it on their OWN pace how they feel and like it and for the most part not all of them will or can do it within 3 weeks. I am NOT going to burn myself out doing it the efficiently way, as you put it, as they will be too draining on my spirit and would make me sick of playing FFXIV anymore. Which is why i'm taking my time on it.

You got nerves to say "it is really not for you" as I clearly stated in my other posts that I want to get the Relic regardless of its stats as I like making the Weapon and doing the Questline. Though I know you not trying to be insulting I was pointing out how people go about doing the Relic differently and most will not speed through it.

Plus I think most people would agree that MOST of the Anima Relics, not all of them, are inferior to their Lore and Raid counterparts in the long run due to the stats weighted for their representative classes.

Regardless the fact of the matter is people are getting sick of the same tireless grind for a "glamour" Relic as you've said and it's the same old, same old. People don't want it easy... they want it FUN to do. I haven't played FFXI (except for a little bit) but apparently the FFXI Relic Weapons there were perfect for the most part as they lasted forever on all contents (except for the last few I hear) and thus it think it would be better if the Relic in FFXIV would reach that worthwhile status and the many "fun" things to do getting it done. They had a good blend and fun and time investment grind for powerful weapon to hold you for all expansion the right way which FFXIV can't seem to get right.

In the end the 210 step is going to be nerf whether people complain against there's no need or not. Ain't no two ways about it. We'll just see what the future holds then.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

I'm working on it at my own pace and picking the steps I want to do to go about getting it. I'll eventually get it when I get all the items, but I am in no way in a rush to get the Relic. I main NIN and the stats on the Relic make it the "weakest" Weapon for NIN where the Raid and Lore Weapons are the more efficient choices. Plus people do it on their OWN pace how they feel and like it and for the most part not all of them will or can do it within 3 weeks. I am NOT going to burn myself out doing it the efficiently way, as you put it, as they will be too draining on my spirit and would make me sick of playing FFXIV anymore. Which is why i'm taking my time on it.

You got nerves to say "it is really not for you" as I clearly stated in my other posts that I want to get the Relic regardless of its stats as I like making the Weapon and doing the Questline. Though I know you not trying to be insulting I was pointing out how people go about doing the Relic differently and most will not speed through it.

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Honestly, VirusChris, this entire statement is quite contradicting. You make it abundantly clear that you want to tackle the Relic grind at your own pace, which is all fine and dandy. But at the same time you speak ill of the Relic, in comparison to its Lore counterpart. Which you also agree is the easier one to obtain. I'm left confused by this. Whiteroom is right you know, the Lore weapon is there for players like you who simply do not have the time to invest in the Relic. Should you choose to go after the Relic regardless of this, that is not something SE can or should consider. Take it or leave it.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Plus I think most people would agree that MOST of the Anima Relics, not all of them, are inferior to their Lore and Raid counterparts in the long run due to the stats weighted for their representative classes.

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Then don't get them. Sooner or later a step similar to the infusion of materia that decides secondary stats on your Relic will most likely be added. They did this before, and it will happen again. I guarantee it.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

Regardless the fact of the matter is people are getting sick of the same tireless grind for a "glamour" Relic as you've said and it's the same old, same old. People don't want it easy... they want it FUN to do. I haven't played FFXI (except for a little bit) but apparently the FFXI Relic Weapons there were perfect for the most part as they lasted forever on all contents (except for the last few I hear) and thus it think it would be better if the Relic in FFXIV would reach that worthwhile status and the many "fun" things to do getting it done. They had a good blend and fun and time investment grind for powerful weapon to hold you for all expansion the right way which FFXIV can't seem to get right.

In the end the 210 step is going to be nerf whether people complain against there's no need or not. Ain't no two ways about it.

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Now I mostly do agree with the fact that the method of the grind does play a huge part, and doing the same thing over and over isn't "fun" just as you say. But who ever said the Relic had to be "fun"? I understand that players pay to play this game, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have to work for a powerful item within that game. A game without challenges is a boring game if you ask me. That's why there are alternatives for those who want an easier time. And in all honesty if you simply want the Relic to glamour it, but don't want to be bothered grinding for it, then that is your own problem. I mean no offense by saying this, it's simply how it is. You've made it clear that you want the Relic, and that you're going for it at your own pace. Great, good luck! Does anything else really need to be said at this point?

Sure, it will inevitably be nerfed when the later steps are sufficiently ahead. But personally I wish they won't.

Edit: I never played FFXI, but I have it on good authority that obtaining the Relic weapons there took considerably longer compared to FFXIV's Relic. And that it wasn't exactly "fun" either. Anyone who's played FFXI, feel free to pitch in here.

^ this.

Ten letters and stuff.

It seemed more like he was saying the grind should at least be a somewhat entertaining experience.
Games are meant to be enjoyed and you guys just said (nerf or no nerf) that BORING grinds should be a thing in games????

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Originally Posted by Zari

It seemed more like he was saying the grind should at least be a somewhat entertaining experience.
Games are meant to be enjoyed and you guys just said (nerf or no nerf) that BORING grinds should be a thing in games????

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But nerfing the grind doesn't make it more enjoyable. If he cannot see that it is simply a tool the devs use to keep us here and old content going, thats on him. What he seems to want though, from his comments in other threads, is an entirely different weapon, and if your assumption is correct, method of getting it, and that should probably have it's own thread.

But come on, "I chose to do it slow, and I'll complain about that". Setting his ultra slow and with taking that long it would have to be inefficent method of getting it as some sort of timeline that can be used to argue a point? He didn't even understand the thing he had quoted from me.

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Originally Posted by Torunya

Edit: I never played FFXI, but I have it on good authority that obtaining the Relic weapons there took considerably longer compared to FFXIV's Relic. And that it wasn't exactly "fun" either. Anyone who's played FFXI, feel free to pitch in here.

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Relic in XI was crushingly difficult for a number of years, but it was also the definitive Best Weapon in each category. Owning a relic was a monument to how much time you spent getting one, and the reward was equal parts "making other people jealous" and "having the best item in the game".

Meanwhile, the amount of time you spend getting an anima weapon is significantly longer than any of the other weapons (except Zodiac, which was also the Best Weapon at the time), and anima weapons don't have the distinction of being the Best Weapon for the time you put into it. It's not even a coveted glamour piece, so there's no value to it other than "I want this instead of my lore weapon"--but then, you can get a lore weapon significantly faster than an anima weapon, and it will likely have better stats on it.

Also, consider the second, third, fourth anima weapons you make. Why is this so pointlessly long? What is SE going to nerf this to?

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Originally Posted by Torunya

Edit: I never played FFXI, but I have it on good authority that obtaining the Relic weapons there took considerably longer compared to FFXIV's Relic. And that it wasn't exactly "fun" either. Anyone who's played FFXI, feel free to pitch in here.

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Imagen being forced to do Diadem constantly for 3 hours at a time for a year. So no not fun ...

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

Imagen being forced to do Diadem constantly for 3 hours at a time for a year. So no not fun ...

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You think diadem isn't going to be the focus of the next step of anima? Abandoned content nobody cares about now that you can get way better gear from literally every other aspect of the gear treadmill?

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

You think diadem isn't going to be the focus of the next step of anima? Abandoned content nobody cares about now that you can get way better gear from literally every other aspect of the gear treadmill?

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Well it could have been the step for the 230 relic yet it wasn't. Besides, some materials you can gather from the Diadem are used for the 210 relic, aren't they?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Besides, some materials you can gather from the Diadem are used for the 210 relic, aren't they?

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Yes, this I can confirm.

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

You think diadem isn't going to be the focus of the next step of anima? Abandoned content nobody cares about now that you can get way better gear from literally every other aspect of the gear treadmill?

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Your comment has literally nothing to do with what i was referring to. Your not wrong tho.

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

Your comment has literally nothing to do with what i was referring to. Your not wrong tho.

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It does, though. Diadem is functionally identical to Abyssea, which you had to grind for AGES to finish Magian trials. My body isn't prepared for the millstone of an XIV re-imagining of the Magian trials...

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

It does, though. Diadem is functionally identical to Abyssea, which you had to grind for AGES to finish Magian trials. My body isn't prepared for the millstone of an XIV re-imagining of the Magian trials...

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Sorry it's just you phrased it like a question, like i had made some sort of comment to the contrary, which kind of threw me. I honestly could not give three flying f**** what they do with relic, i'm not touching it with a barge pole.

Diadem is only accessible if you have a FC large enough to own an airship isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Falar

Diadem is only accessible if you have a FC large enough to own an airship isn't it?

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You can do "easy" or "normal" Diadem without a free company airship, but knowing SE they'll make it so you can only get the relic upgrade items from Diadem "hard" mode. The other options will be infinitely slower and more difficult to come by.

Hopefully "Coming into its own" remains the only step like this. That way it can serve as the "gateway" to the higher levels of anima while being the huge roadblock that makes it less appealing than raid gear. As it is the WAR lore weapon is already much easier to get and much better.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

Not sure if trolli. My guess is that you have someone else HQ your stuff while you just do turn-in and just learn a rotation at 50. I've seen it take months to get all your crafters up there.

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I made all of my own stuff. I did not have a single other person make me things to turn in, nor did I have a single person craft my gear for me. If it came out nq, I turned it in anyway. It's easier when you can just gather your own mats, although it does take more time. It's not that bad though, since it only takes about 10 minutes to gather a stack of ore or plants or whatever, and then just send the battle retainer out for things like yak milk and deepeye tears.

People always say how difficult it is to level crafters when it's really incredibly easy by gathering your own mats. Granted, it's not the most exciting thing to power level without leves, but it's doable. I brought my armorer to 50 without a single levequest right before heavensward in about a week solely by grinding ingots and such. I did buy the ores for my armorer, but still made a profit by selling the ingots. With levequests, I brought my alchemist to 50 from about 15ish in only 2 days making my own leve turn ins. With some patience, it's pretty easy to be more or less completely self sufficient besides specialist only recipes (which are evil).