Materia Changes in 3.2:

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Originally Posted by l---------------l

I agree with the OP, but, I agree only for one reason that is totally personal and many people will criticalize so, I don't care admitting it....

I HATE CRAFTERS. It's one of the worse things of the game, they require you a time not everyone can afford to, they are not enjoyable or fun, and, what's worse, they are making them useful... At the beginning of 2.1 to 2.2, (thanks god) they were pretty useless. But now you need them for everything, you need them for your relic, you need them for optimal raiding foods and potions, you WILL NEED them for materia, and now WILL NEED them for i210 HQ pentamelded gear for next raid tier (3.2 patchnotes) nice.... Really...

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Awww, poor baby.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

we will see, but if they don't change the way to get materia, not everyone want to spend hours to kill stuff for break stuff and get random materia of elemental resistance, nor give them a better us it will lead us nowhere.

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http://oi67.tinypic.com/2nn6us.jpg

Only thing I want is that they either rework or disable the Overmelding for combat gear.

Working for materia and additional stats is ok. Dumping countless hours/gil into some bullshit RNG is not.

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Originally Posted by Felis

http://oi67.tinypic.com/2nn6us.jpg

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I do NOT want to be forced into mindless zerg content, no matter how much SE wants me to participate.
Thank you very much.

If they make Diadem actually interesting and fun we can talk about doing it.
Mindlessly grinding mobs? Bleh.

TL;DR - "I don't want to have to do anything to get stuff. Gimme it."

You don't want to Spiritbond. Won't go in the Diadem to get the spoils for Materia. Won't craft or gather anything in an attempt to make a significant amount of Gil. Won't even send your retainers out on Ventures and obtain it that way because you're too lazy to get the coins to pay them. You don't belong to an FC with an Airship that could easily be sent on the cheap to retrieve Materia.

Of all the options available to you, you would rather that it's just handed to you? Wait, I know. Let's just make it so there are no items any more and everyone just does the same damage and everything is only for glamour. And everything should be bought with hugs, too. This may sound mean, but you're basically asking them to eliminate a system that rewards a player for putting in effort so you don't have to. You aren't entitled to things because other people have them.

Stop it.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Ouch. It's not everyday someone outright in the forums outright tells you that they hate you and that they wish the gameplay you enjoy was useless.

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Heh. I'm sure it's nothing personal. I can tell you I shy away from crafting and crafters as far as I can as well, so whenever crafting becomes relevant (mandatory) for a piece of content, that content becomes irrelevant to me. (Well sort of. I do the non-crafting parts and hope the rest falls into my lap somehow.)

I barely manage to do an Ixal quest or two to slowly creep them up to 50 so I can make glamour prisms for less than a tenth of the MB cost. Has already saved me a good 400k in the long run just with leatherworking and weaver. But even crafting those feels like such a drag I feel like figuratively slitting my wrist. Now, I'd normally just opt out of it entirely, but then I'm gonna be overcharged multiple times over on the market. Pick your poison, you can only lose: either your gil or your sanity.

It's easy to develop an irrational aversion to crafting (and crafters) under these circumstances. Can't blame anyone here.

you have a right middle, spiritbonding can be quite long if you don't use the right level of content aimed for the item and without potion or item for speed it.
diadem is a mindless zergfest it's ok if you do something else like talking with someone or look a movie next to it.... but not that good as content.
personally i use my airship and gather tons of materia (we are a very small fc with 3 airship ^^) then get the materia not that hard, but i must point out that gather materia is a chores more than fun!

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

You don't want to Spiritbond. Won't go in the Diadem to get the spoils for Materia.

Won't craft or gather anything in an attempt to make a significant amount of Gil. Won't even send your retainers out on Ventures and obtain it that way because you're too lazy to get the coins to pay them. You don't belong to an FC with an Airship that could easily be sent on the cheap to retrieve Materia.

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1) absolutely correct. I do NOT want to be forced into shitty grind content that is so mundane and boring that it should be done via automated bots.
I don't know about you but I play a game to be ENTERTAINED not bored to the point that my skull implodes if I don't watch a movie next to it.

2) Unable to assess right now. We would need to wait for 3.2 to hit and for the prices to find equilibrium in order to gauge how feasible it is to just buy the materia of the MB.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

It's easy to develop an irrational aversion to crafting (and crafters) under these circumstances. Can't blame anyone here.

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Actually you can.

Crafting is fun system/ability wise.
It's just the layers and layers and more layers of stupid grind sprinkled with RNG that drag stuff out to the death and scare many players away.

Imho sad, because this game has the coolest crafting system I've ever encountered.

So blame the one that deserves it: SE.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Diadem have an increased spiritbind rate. So put on crafted ilevel 160+ gear and jump into the action.
And roll on every gear that drop, exchange them for tokens and buy materias with the diadem tokens.

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Diadem gear itself is convertable iirc. Spirit bond gear for materia while you farm more gear for spirit bonding and materia? Sounds like double dipping to me.

This isn't a new conversation btw. The "oh noes my battle class cannot make money" debate is as old as the game itself. there are PLENTY of ways to make money as a battle class. What do you want? A button that you press and gil goes into your pocket? Might I point you towards the RMT if thats the case.

EDIT: What's one of the most lucrative ways to make money in this game? Clear selling. Who does that? DoL? DoH? Nope. Battle classes. If you *ahem*suck*ahem* at dol/doh/ventures, desynth, rng, everythign else that makes you money, then my advice is get good and sell some runs. Bam. Instant gil in your Battle Class pocket without having to "grind" or provide any other effort at all. In before "But I can't find 6 other people who play with me T_T" older content doesn't need a full group to clear, especially unsynced.

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Originally Posted by l---------------l

I agree with the OP, but, I agree only for one reason that is totally personal and many people will criticalize so, I don't care admitting it....


I HATE CRAFTERS. It's one of the worse things of the game, they require you a time not everyone can afford to, they are not enjoyable or fun, and, what's worse, they are making them useful... At the beginning of 2.1 to 2.2, (thanks god) they were pretty useless. But now you need them for everything, you need them for your relic, you need them for optimal raiding foods and potions, you WILL NEED them for materia, and now WILL NEED them for i210 HQ pentamelded gear for next raid tier (3.2 patchnotes) nice.... Really...

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I pretty much agree with you on every point.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Ouch. It's not everyday someone outright in the forums outright tells you that they hate you and that they wish the gameplay you enjoy was useless.

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The problem with Crafting isn't so much what Crafting does within the game, It's entirely the pure greed that those behind Crafting suffer from.

I'd be perfectly OK with Crafting being required for my Relic, if Crafters weren't trying to charge me 10 million or more for the materials i need.
I would also be perfectly happy to pay a Culinarian or Alchemist for the things they make if the prices they charged were in any way reasonable. I refuse, on principle, to pay 50k for a single piece of HQ food.

Being an MMO, I like to see things in the game that encourage us to seek out others. The problem is that those involved with crafting are only interested in making huge amounts of Gil to the detriment of those who simply make do with the Gil we make doing our regular activities.

I still remember encountering Crafters who would outright refuse to finish Melding my base relic during 2.0 unless i paid them thousands of Gil, despite that i had all the materials myself and all they needed to do was click the accept button.

TL;DR, Crafting is fine. Crafters are what we dislike. And once i finish getting my Battle Classes to 60, i fully intend to invest the time to getting all my DoH/DoL classes to cap just so i can offer the services others charge millions for, at an affordable rate.

If SE wouldn't make crafters jump through so many ridiculous hoops they wouldn't feel the need to charge outlandish prices in order to compensate for the absurd amount of time and gil invested into leveling / gearing them to the point that they can offer these services.

I don't know how many of you played FFXI, but I thought I'd drop this little of nugget here.

Diadem is getting changed. They are going to make it reflect what Sky was back in FFXI. I for one am super amped, and will actually try it then. The boyfriend did original Diadem, went "meh" but now that they are making it more like Sky, you can't sign the both of us up faster.

So how about everyone wailing about "DIADEM IS MINDLESS ZEERRRGGGG" wait until the new implementations kick in and then try it once again. If you still feel it is a mindless zerg... well oh well?

(Also I have to LOL really hard at "standing in one place clicking buttons" that's the vast majority of Battle content that we're grinding right now except for boss fights.)

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Heh. I'm sure it's nothing personal. I can tell you I shy away from crafting and crafters as far as I can as well, so whenever crafting becomes relevant (mandatory) for a piece of content, that content becomes irrelevant to me. (Well sort of. I do the non-crafting parts and hope the rest falls into my lap somehow.)

I barely manage to do an Ixal quest or two to slowly creep them up to 50 so I can make glamour prisms for less than a tenth of the MB cost. Has already saved me a good 400k in the long run just with leatherworking and weaver. But even crafting those feels like such a drag I feel like figuratively slitting my wrist. Now, I'd normally just opt out of it entirely, but then I'm gonna be overcharged multiple times over on the market. Pick your poison, you can only lose: either your gil or your sanity.

It's easy to develop an irrational aversion to crafting (and crafters) under these circumstances. Can't blame anyone here.

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Well I have quite a few friends in game I provide crafting services to for free or near about. My FC has organised our crafters so we have all the specialisations covered. Anyone who wants stuff made only needs to get the mats for it.

Crafting can be a productive social aspect to the game. I'm sure there are plenty of crafters out there who would willingly create things for others for a small fee if they are provided the materials.

I don't think that everyone needs to be crafters but at the same time crafting has to be rewarding for the people who do play and enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I'd be perfectly OK with Crafting being required for my Relic, if Crafters weren't trying to charge me 10 million or more for the materials i need.

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current prices or remembered "first days" prices? On Ragnarok the prices for those are currently around 300k each.

I'm surprised that attaining materia is even a concern. I dont have a shit load of top tier 3/4 materia and virtually no 5 because I personally can't be bothered, but obtaining materia is rather easy, ESPECIALLY if you have an FC with a friendly crafter or 2.
Short guide to getting good materia quick
1)HQ battle gear. Not just useful for better stats, HQ gear spiritbonds about 25% faster(or so ive been told).2) Spiritbonding potions, which can be picked up from your GC for seals at dirt cheap rates. 3)Patriots Choker, Patriots Bracelet,and Meteor Survivor Ring. First 2 from GC,ring from a low level quest line. If u wanna go full Spiritbond gain accesories, also pick up an aetherite ring if you can. If you do, that's+5 spiritbond gain alltogether. 4)GRIND. Or level another class, even level 40 HQ gear can become a level 2/3 materia, 4 if youre really lucky.

Step 1: Already own an FC and 4 FC Airships
Step 2: swim in materia
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Drink the tears of the less fortunate.

FYI, you dont have to materia meld your gear. Yoshi stated that its optional. Especially for those who dont raid. Nobody is going to kick you from DF because you dont have materia melded gear.

Also for those shamming crafters. Those prices are set based on material prices. The reason certain items on the MB are high is because of the high price on the materials it cost to make, especially HQ materials.

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Originally Posted by Derio

FYI, you dont have to materia meld your gear. Yoshi stated that its optional. Especially for those who dont raid. Nobody is going to kick you from DF because you dont have materia melded gear.

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As I said: I'm fine with materia melds. I'm also fine with materia being somewhat precious.

What I don't want to deal with is stupid overmeld RNG, because I value my time and do not want to waste it because some RNG thinks: "nope".

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Diadem is old gear, which is probably getting replaced by all the new gear. Not an issue or relevant to this topic.

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It's not relevant because you tell yourself that -- you can get materia with bronze spoils.................................

I feel like alot of you simply didn't look into the live letter. Along with these materia changes, Diadem is getting changed as well. So those complaining that they won't do it because it's a zergfest, thats an invalid argument.

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Originally Posted by SinisterJointss

It's not relevant because you tell yourself that -- you can get materia with bronze spoils.................................

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if only they lowered the amount of spoils needed (or upped the spoils exchange to 5-8-10 )....48 is a lot of gear traded for a 1 materia :S

and since diadem is changing...we dont know how "farmable" is going to be the new diadem...maybe is a pain in the rear and u need to farm diadem for 1 week to be able to buy 1 materia...

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Originally Posted by RainDurell

So those complaining that they won't do it because it's a zergfest, thats an invalid argument.

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...until further notice. Before the Diadem was released, we were all expecting a non-zergfest from exploration missions as well. There is solid reason to remain sceptical.

Level Gathering to 60....
Make Friends....
Do dragon skin maps.
Normally nets me 400k every 4 maps + 1 relic drop.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

...until further notice. Before the Diadem was released, we were all expecting a non-zergfest from exploration missions as well. There is solid reason to remain sceptical.

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i was hoping for a procedural generate content for group/raid and adaptative not a content that soo bad...

Didn't Diadem have an increased rate of spirit bonding? Along with spoils, and the increased rate wouldn't it rather easy to get materias?

even if.... the content it's still a zergest borind and mindless...

Fuck Diadem. Combat is boring enough already, yet they managed to distill out the most boring parts and fill a zone with it. I'd go through less mountainous trash digging through the garbage dump for my materia.

Materia would be cool if it gives actually interesting stats!
-hey this Materia adds +1 second to my Enochian? Hmm nice
- shortens cooldown for swiftcast? Hey this could be useful?
- effect of raging strikes increased? Cool!


If it just adds some boring main/secondary stat I don't actively hunt for it. SE will throw them at me sooner or alter.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Materia changes - From Patch 3.2 equipment purchased with tomestones will include materia slots.

So, Will Materia be dropping from Dungeons so we can sell/trade them? One of the issues i'm having with this is there is no way for someone who does dungeons to make money.

People are wanting 300-500k for one materia item. I only have 200k gil to my name. (Level 60.) right now.

Unless there another way for combat players to make a large chunk of money quickly like crafters I see this turning people away, making people quit the game. I dislike crafted armor because of how expensive it is and I hate Materia's RNG.

RNG is what turned me away from Archeage.

I actually love the gem systems from other games, but in this game Materia is so rare that its just not a fun system. In other games gems are very common.

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I think they should just let you convert dungeon items like how you can convert other items.

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Originally Posted by OmegaStrongtan

Materia would be cool if it gives actually interesting stats!
-hey this Materia adds +1 second to my Enochian? Hmm nice
- shortens cooldown for swiftcast? Hey this could be useful?
- effect of raging strikes increased? Cool!

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And suddenly you have a balancing nightmare on your hands. And that groups WILL demand you to have very specific materia melded to your gear to be considered for a group, even low-tier groups (since stats like these can be game-changing, unlike the secondary stats we have now).

As interesting as it seems, it will not bring variety at all, with one stat set being the most powerful and the only one people will consider for any even semi-serious content.

EDIT: Sorry, it can actually be far worse than now; if a set is found to work better on certain fights, and another set with a different fight, you'll be required to have a set for every fight you intend to run. Imagine having to meld 4 sets for Alexander, one for each floor, and a set for each EX Primal. And yes, people would demand this...

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Originally Posted by PArcher

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I'd rather have balancing 'nightmares' and multiple sets. SE just has give more armory space and get rid of weekly lockout.

If it is just boring main/secondary stat materia it will just be pseudo customization and everyone will slot the same. If that happens they can just delete the materia slots and and more base stat to our gear.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

And suddenly you have a balancing nightmare on your hands. And that groups WILL demand you to have very specific materia melded to your gear to be considered for a group, even low-tier groups (since stats like these can be game-changing, unlike the secondary stats we have now).

As interesting as it seems, it will not bring variety at all, with one stat set being the most powerful and the only one people will consider for any even semi-serious content.

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People are already doing that with sub stats anyway despite how inconsequential it is to your gameplay. At least with different stats, you can feel some form of empowerment from gear. Also balancing nightmare, it's not like the developers are that incompetent to make something astoundingly op compared to everything else that's available.

Plus people are excluding people from groups for the silliest reasons in the first place, having different substats wouldn't be anything new in that regard.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

And suddenly you have a balancing nightmare on your hands. And that groups WILL demand you to have very specific materia melded to your gear to be considered for a group, even low-tier groups (since stats like these can be game-changing, unlike the secondary stats we have now).

As interesting as it seems, it will not bring variety at all, with one stat set being the most powerful and the only one people will consider for any even semi-serious content.

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I agree, having to balance things is why games like Starcraft were so unsuccessful.

Devs would be best to remove stats all together and simply give each job 1 stat called "Main Stat". Would make balancing much easier and people will be less likely to be blocked out of parties for being idiots or incompetent.

Balance is never, ever, ever, under any circumstance, an excuse to limit customization in terms of MMOs.

Many MMOs have succeeded in balancing classes and equipment with much greater customization than XIV in gear and personal abilities. There is no reason why XIV can't do the same. Saying otherwise is essentially selling the devs short.

Balance is a very good excuse as screwed up balance can break the game. You think people complaining about content now? Imagine what its like if their favoured class was clearly at a disadvantage or a 'required' materia for their class was difficult to get or could only be acquired through content they hated doing. People in this thread are complaining about doing Diadem for just normal Materia and there are alternatives to that.

That's not to say they cant include a lot more customisation in this game. However they have to take their time and be very careful they don't break the game doing it. Many MMOs do have far more customisation than FF14 while maintaining reasonable balance but those MMO rarely implement those customisation systems without a very long testing and balancing period. Even then a lot of them fall into the trap of their customisation ending up having only 1 or 2 viable builds and the rest being a waste.

Consider how long they too to rebalance the AST. It wasn't cause they were ignoring it. It's cause they were being very careful not to swing from one side to the other with it. Small changes can make huge impacts on the game.

And hell no to multiple gear sets. I hate having to do that, particularly in a game with ANY vertical progression.

I hope for more customisation but if your impatient and they decide to rush then don't be surprised if we have a complete mess. This Materia change is a small one but it is one. Small steps are better than none.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Balance is never, ever, ever, under any circumstance, an excuse to limit customization in terms of MMOs.

Many MMOs have succeeded in balancing classes and equipment with much greater customization than XIV in gear and personal abilities. There is no reason why XIV can't do the same. Saying otherwise is essentially selling the devs short.

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Do you want to give examples? I can't think of a single MMO I've played where there wasn't massive disparity where x class/skill tree was so inferior it was completely shat on by the community. And then in an effort to fix that, another class fell into the slot instead.

XI for example, despite it's long lifespan, still has balance issues. White Mage, Geomancer, Dancer, Blue Mage, Black Mage or Paladin with a both of your relic shields are top tier. Samurai, Thief, Corsair, Beastmaster, Summoner, Bard and Scholar are passable. The other nine jobs are considered trash and the best of them can only compete with mid tier players in the best jobs with the absolute best gear sets available to them.

XIV's the only game that has it's act together as far as job balance is concerned. Bard was sorta too good initially, Warrior was lagging behind initially, in 2.4 Dragoon was in a bad place, but they've fixed all of those issues.

I want more customization, but I don't want it if it's going to destroy XIV's amazing class balance.

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Originally Posted by RainDurell

*Cough* Diadem *Cough*

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Unless your grinding for lvl 5 materia, diadem items are kinda on the cheap side now. use to sell wind silk for like 500 till the prices dropped to like 100k and less. :/

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Imagine what its like if their favoured class was clearly at a disadvantage or a 'required' materia for their class was difficult to get or could only be acquired through content they hated doing.

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MCH says hi. Being out picked 3 to 1 by their only slot competition ( BRD).

Even with so few stats and variance their balance is still mediocre at best.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

95% of players don't raid regardless of gear. A whole bunch of ya can't do more than 500 dps no matter how good your gear is. And the content is tuned so low it could prob be beaten with half your gear missing. I don't see how this will effect anything.

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this so much

OP. There is plenty of ways to make gil right now even if you don't craft or gather. Just from running a few dungeons at level 60 you'll be getting tens of thousands of gil. If running content like that constantly to make money isn't enough for you, go out and kill enemies for loot drops. Still pure combat without being a gatherer or crafter, and some of the more expensive materials on the MB are ones you get from killing annoying monsters over and over again for material drops. Or if all else fails, go run FATEs constantly for hours on end. You get a nice bit of gil from them to begin with, and all the Grand Company Seals that you get as well can be traded for items that can be sold on the MB for a decent price. Or if THAT'S not good enough for you, farm tomestones and use those to buy the rare materials from the vendors. I know that before the Relics came out I was nearly capped on Law so I blew what I had on a material that I sold on the MB for about 300k if I recall correctly. OR IF THAT FAILS, start a sell party for EX primals. While I don't support sell parties in the least, that is still yet another way that you could make gil without crafting or gathering. OR IF THAT ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU, then you can always just farm EX Primals for materials. King Mog's Whiskers are selling for about three million right now on my server, (and selling fairly quickly), which is more than I make from gathering normally in a few weeks unless I'm making an actual effort to make gil. Then there's also the option to simply use your Ventures wisely and level your two free retainers that you have access to to level 60 and let them gather items to sell. Just off of my main retainer I make about 10-20k a day from doing one 18h venture, and she's an Arcanist not a gatherer....

You're complaining that it's nearly impossible for pure combat players to make a decent amount of gil, but I just listed eight very viable methods for making money in game that doesn't require a crafter or gatherer class at all. Yea, you won't be making money as quickly as a dedicated crafter or gatherer, but what would be the point of even playing as those classes to begin with if they didn't allow for making money at a faster rate or saving you from spending money?

From reading a few of the other comments in this thread, as well as a few of your own, it becomes readily apparent that you're not complaining about the cost of materia as much as you're complaining that people who diversify how they play the game have more options than people who only play one part of the game. There are benefits to focusing only on combat of course, such as, (hopefully), improving your skills in general allowing you to preform better in content when compared to players who haven't practiced as much, or the fact that you'll be more familiar with enemy patterns. It's only fair that the people who craft or gather likewise have their own benefits in the form of more gil and easier access to crafting and gathering items. What's more is that it's not like these people have put any less time into the game than you have. In fact, most people who have the same level of equipment as you do, but who also have at least one crafting or gathering class leveled, have put more time into the game than you have......

EDIT: I guess part of my point is that the OP's reasoning and claims even on the first page alone are insulting in many regards. As is, even if you don't actively try to make money from crafting or gathering items for profit, it's stupidly easy to make gil in this game. I know that on an average night of just doing roulettes or leveling dungeon runs, I walk away with about 50k from a few hours worth of runs, before we even begin to count in anything I make from my retainers selling stuff or their ventures.....

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

Yea, you won't be making money as quickly as a dedicated crafter or gatherer, but what would be the point of even playing as those classes to begin with if they didn't allow for making money at a faster rate or saving you from spending money?

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Yeah, what would be the point of even playing combat classes if they didn't allow for making money at a faster rate or saving you from spending money?

Oh wait...

Fun yet sad fact: The only reason crafting and gathering are profitable is because most people don't like doing them. Imagine just for one moment everyone would gather and craft as they play their combat classes. No profit possible. Not only would there be next to no demand since everyone crafts and gathers, the supply would be immense.

As such, getting money is not "the point" of playing these classes, it's the natural result of people not enjoying them.