Punish DOL and Afker's in Diadem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

As I said, I'd be fine with those shards going to the person who did the gathering. How much shards was it? I know they're practically worthless, sure in bulk but that doesn't matter when they're rare. Whereas 8 tokens could get you a crafting material that goes for 40-70,000 gil after you've obtained the Pegasus (assuming you were after that).

---

My server is like 100-200k of gil for 8 tokens in mats.

The solution to this problem continues to be: make PF and then blacklist anyone that ignores your desire to camp dino island with 100% uptime on all party members.

And not to "punish" random players who are not doing anything the instance does not allow. Do you want to "punish" the lowest DPS in a DF party for Alexander? If you get last place you can't roll on the loot? I don't think so.

(At least I hope no one thinks like that.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reaperking386

I firmly agree that a player can do what he/she likes in Diadem, but they should not receive credit from a mobs loot and same way around with combat classes. They should not get chest from DOL.

---

Gatherers also find chests on their own when their buried and your saying they shouldn't get that either? Sounds a bit selfish if you ask me.

*clap* I really applaud you to your ignorance. People like you are the reason that the Diadem is an absolute fail for many people.

Why? Well, going with only 2 people to gather (as is possible with the guild), you most of the time won't be even able to get the currents because STEALTH doesn't work.
What other choice do gatherers have? I have no problem for not letting them roll on battle loot. However, people fighting should also not be able to roll on chests discovered by gatherers.

The idea that came with the diadem was excellent. Unfortunately it was executed extremely poorly:
- Do not make one spot farmable (loot exhaust comes to mind)
- Give gatherer's the chance to stand on their own (make stealth work)
- Auto-kick AFK-ers as it happens in dungeons
- Take out the constant re-attuning to the currents (once should be enough)
- implement loot restrictions (gatherers only gather loot, battle only battle loot)
- Lower the re-spawn rate
- Lower the mob HP in EASY mode (what is the sense of 2 people parties if they have no chance to live?)

Just my 2 cent

Just separate DoW/DoM and DoL in DF already >_>

Those are two groups with highly conflicting interests. Drama is bound to happen, especially between randoms. There's just simply no good way to solve this except via segregation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nephera

punish dol's for joining something they're allowed to join, great plan.

---

That's the thing. They aren't allowed to join as a DoL. It's a massive inconvenience to 6-7 people when 1 or 2 decide they're gonna just gather.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Gatherers also find chests on their own when their buried and your saying they shouldn't get that either? Sounds a bit selfish if you ask me.

---

I think that's not what he's saying

I think he's saying that a gatherer shouldn't be able to loot on chest items that come from combat class chests, and that combat classes shouldnt' get the items from the gatherer's chest.

At the moment, the bias is heavily skewed towards a gather.

When you enter Diadem and change to a DoL, you get:
- a chance at All loot from the Combat classes (greed FFA)
- a chance at All loot from the chests you gather
- All loot you mine up
However, a DoW/M gets:
- A chance at all loot from the Combat Classes (Greed FFA)
- a chance at All loot from the chests you gather

Note the difference is that DoL gets more - because they're also getting items / materials they gather for pretty mindless work, that they can likely turn around and sell for profit.

Additional Edit-in:

To say the least, if you're going to enter Diadem via Duty finder, please join the party and fight. You enter as a Disciple of War/Magic, and changing to Hand/Land mid phase just penalizes the other people in your party because we're now fighting without our full team. You can't que as DoH/L by comparison.

If you wanna do Gathering runs, please be courteous and do a PF. Likewise, people who want to garuntee pure war-classes should do PF, but I believe going into DF and not asking 'is it cool if I can go gather' is an extreme sign of disrespect towards the other 7 people in your party.

Plenty of times, I've said "There's a node nearby, mind if I go hit it?" while on Dino Island. And usually, I get a "Make it quick" / "As long as a V/star isn't up."

I think the biggest mistake was Square thinking those that wanted this content publicly accessible instead of company restricted were the same people who didn't deride others for not 'getting good'. Clearly this is more from the 'not in my precious content' camp but instead of 'filthy casuals' it's directed at gatherers. Do you really not look at the duty conditions? There's only two conditions that involve combat last I saw, the rest are finding special places, items and gathering. It's part of the content! They may not be participating in killing things, but they sure as heck are contributing to the win conditions. This was meant for companies with airships. It was only made public for those in companies without houses who still want to reap the rewards for their company. I mean, the spoils vendors outside of Diadem are in the housing districts. I don't care who rolls on loot, so long as they help with the win conditions. AFKers, though... drop them into the endless blue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reaperking386

My server is like 100-200k of gil for 8 tokens in mats.

---

It's when I hear things like this that I start to dislike Tonberry, minion prices, furniture prices, gear prices, etc. are all pretty high, but the ways to make money get worse and worse due to constant undercutting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

As I said, I'd be fine with those shards going to the person who did the gathering. How much shards was it? I know they're practically worthless, sure in bulk but that doesn't matter when they're rare. Whereas 8 tokens could get you a crafting material that goes for 40-70,000 gil after you've obtained the Pegasus (assuming you were after that).

---

Bronze DoL chests drop crystals and level 50 unspoiled items
Silver DoL chests drop crystals and 1 of those exact same 40-70k gil crafting materials you're talking about

Seems like the most simple fix is restricting loot rolling between DoL and DoW/DoM classes. Only DoL can roll on loot from gathering, whereas Dow/DoM are the only ones who can loot on drops from enemies. I agree that you should only be able to loot on enemy drops if you have participated in combat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Bronze DoL chests drop crystals and level 50 unspoiled items
Silver DoL chests drop crystals and 1 of those exact same 40-70k gil crafting materials you're talking about

---

Then I guess they're not frequent enough, you can get an average of 1+ of Bronze/Silver chests with a zerg party per minute (99% of parties these days). It's either they split the rewards so gatherers keep their loot, and battle classes keep their loot, make gathered items share between the party, increase the drop rate of hidden chests or have monsters drop things like skins which are unique to the individual.

As it stands right now, battle classes are able to get chests, while gatherers get chests that battle classes work for (let's face it, the majority of those chests come from battle) and their own loot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eidolon

If you wanna do Gathering runs, please be courteous and do a PF. Likewise, people who want to garuntee pure war-classes should do PF, but I believe going into DF and not asking 'is it cool if I can go gather' is an extreme sign of disrespect towards the other 7 people in your party.

---

Umm, how about players wanting to do nothing but fight mobs in one area like a bunch of savages hunting like their lives depend on it use the party finder. Its like being set out on a trip, everyone goes to the same resort. Some people stick together while others do there own thing. If you were in charge of this resort trip you'd make rules, but if your not then your along the ride like everyone else, you have no control other than yourself.

I went to Diadem at least 30 times now and out of 5 runs I stayed on Dino Island and kiled monsters over, and over, and over...and I was friggen bored. Its like mixing fates with hunts and its a damn nightmare, so I see a bunch of people gathering and stuff and I split off from the group and do the same. Its more challenging than fighting a bunch of monsters 72 to 1-6 (savages) mainly since you have to sneak by most enemies to get the node and stealth does not work for some reason. Not to mention Steel Sky Pirate Spoils for those items. Besides there's plenty of other ways to get gear in this game right now and at the pace that its going you don't really need 210 gear right away.

So if your that majority that wants your 210 gear NOW then use pf and state specific rules for entire mob fighting groups. the terms of service would be your friend for that matter.

Oh, and I'm all up for DoL not being able to roll on loot obtained by battle classes though. Just not the gatherers problem if you don't get anything, free mode. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilraen

This was meant for companies with airships. It was only made public for those in companies without houses who still want to reap the rewards for their company.

---

And this really gets to the heart of the issue and the 'real' fix for it... This is only an issue because SE screwed up company housing to begin with and hasn't offered a satisfactory fix yet. When they make it so every FC can have a house then they can make it FC-only, but until then they have to make it available to the DF to help out those of us unfortunate enough to not have gotten the FC house we wanted to get before this even was a problem. And before anyone goes on with the 'You think you should be able to access all the content because you pay a sub' rant, in this occasion (very much unlike raids) the reason that some people cannot access the content through the FC method is due to an explicit failure of the system on SE's end and not anyone that didn't 'get good' to do the content. It's a systemic issue, not a personal one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Umm, how about players wanting to do nothing but fight mobs in one area like a bunch of savages hunting like their lives depend on it use the party finder.

---

I'd say if you're using DF then you should follow the majority vote of your current party. Also, nothing is really stopping DoL from gathering every now and then, but they should help out their party if they need it and not roll on loot they didn't contribute towards.

Note that your argument regarding DoW/DoM using PF if they just want to grind is EXACTLY the same argument that can be used for DoL who go into the Diadem to gather. It doesn't matter what your goal is... If you can't accept other people's goals (gathering vs. combat or vice versa), then make a PF specifying what you want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Colorful

As it stands right now, battle classes are able to get chests, while gatherers get chests that battle classes work for (let's face it, the majority of those chests come from battle) and their own loot.

---

I've yet to see a DoL get the items from a DoL chest when there was a DoW/DoM in the party.

DIADEM: Dino Island And Done, Easy Mode.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evumeimei

Seems like the most simple fix is restricting loot rolling between DoL and DoW/DoM classes. Only DoL can roll on loot from gathering, whereas Dow/DoM are the only ones who can loot on drops from enemies. I agree that you should only be able to loot on enemy drops if you have participated in combat.

---

This would actually make sense. But AFKs still are some what problematic even if they get kicked after being afk 10mins that of course means they really ARE afk, no movement what so ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chessala

*clap* I really applaud you to your ignorance. People like you are the reason that the Diadem is an absolute fail for many people.

Why? Well, going with only 2 people to gather (as is possible with the guild), you most of the time won't be even able to get the currents because STEALTH doesn't work.What other choice do gatherers have? I have no problem for not letting them roll on battle loot. However, people fighting should also not be able to roll on chests discovered by gatherers.

The idea that came with the diadem was excellent. Unfortunately it was executed extremely poorly:
- Do not make one spot farmable (loot exhaust comes to mind)
- Give gatherer's the chance to stand on their own (make stealth work)
- Auto-kick AFK-ers as it happens in dungeons
- Take out the constant re-attuning to the currents (once should be enough)
- implement loot restrictions (gatherers only gather loot, battle only battle loot)
- Lower the re-spawn rate
- Lower the mob HP in EASY mode (what is the sense of 2 people parties if they have no chance to live?)

Just my 2 cent

---

I am not saying gatherer's should not be allowed. I am simply stating "implement loot restrictions (gatherers only gather loot, battle only battle loot)". Because this eventually leads to hostility towards the DOL for rolling on loot they did not participate in helping leading to the group disbanding.

Ex: Recently had a person who wanted to just fish, but they wanted to roll on the loot as well. The group all of a sudden does a 180 and begins to verbally attack the DoL. They do this for 1 hour straight until the Dol begins to help at the end. I had no problem mostly because it is what it is and there is no point trying to verbally abuse someone that was just following a flawed system, but if the group disbanded I would have lost 2 hours of my time to farm. While sharing loot is not a huge issue with me; it is a issue enough to cause a DF group to disband just because one player or two wants to farm causing lost of time for the players who are here to farm the mobs.

Gathering needs to be integrated in a way that in order to spawn the upper level hunts certain gathering goals need to be met. Stopping this mindless zerg fest by the loot/gear crowd needs to stop. That isn't what Diadem should be about, standing in the same spot for 90 minutes and killing wave after wave of adds in order to generate the most drops possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Gathering needs to be integrated in a way that in order to spawn the upper level hunts certain gathering goals need to be met. Stopping this mindless zerg fest by the loot/gear crowd needs to stop. That isn't what Diadem should be about, standing in the same spot for 90 minutes and killing wave after wave of adds in order to generate the most drops possible.

---

I hope that it does evolve where everyone is happy and gatherer's can work with the combat classes hand to hand to achieve a goal, but for now during this patch all they can do is add a band-aid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spawnie

wonder if you complain about the loot you get free from when a DoL class finds a nice little treasure chest... no??? yeah didnt think so lol

---

Well, unless you can dig up a gold chest I couldn't really care >.> Plus you get far more chests from combat than from gathering.

And yeah, setting up a PF is nice and all, but I have a weird timezone as I am from NZ, so I have to DF it more than others, as I often play during the dead-time. If I set up a PF during this time, it just won't fill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AskaRay

Wow sorry about gathering where gathering nodes clearly exist.


Though to be fair I also don't agree on rolling for loot you don't earn (I don't roll if I don't help kill anything). I feel that could be easily fixed by tracking who damages an enemy...doesn't seem like it would be hard to implement but what do I know?

---

if I go to gather I stick with the group killing until we start exploring, people start doing random stuff and then I start to gather - if loot rolls pop up from people killing stuff I auto pass.

I won't stop gathering in df Diadem, it's the easiest way to farm crafting/gathering materias.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SevenHeavens

I won't stop gathering in df Diadem, it's the easiest way to farm crafting/gathering materias.

---

It's also the only place to get a key ingredient to one of the best foods in the game.

Wonder how people would react if the price of Staff was 50k+ for nq, and the food was worth 200k or more per piece. (last I looked, it was 10k-15k for nq fish, and 100k for the food on my server)

Kind of odd to see a topic imploring SE to punish players for playing the game as intended that hasn't been locked yet.

Duty Finder is used for the most by the DoL, and if u join u can't blame them for gathering -.-
I can understand the frustratiton for looting but at the same way when a gatherer found a chest the loot go to everyone -.- so u can get items for DoL.

If u don't want find a DoL btw go in PF.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Momita

Duty Finder is used for the most by the DoL, and if u join u can't blame them for gathering -.-
I can understand the frustratiton for looting but at the same way when a gatherer found a chest the loot go to everyone -.- so u can get items for DoL.

If u don't want find a DoL btw go in PF.

---

PF takes time and it doesn't stop someone from going DoL just to mine/fish/log when ever they want and still collecting loot. Their loot chest is also significantly lower in chances compared to a farm group to call it fair. I would call it fair if the loot was maybe every 2 - 3 nodes and/or pink armor would drop as well for the group to roll on. As far as it goes now they benefit more going DoL with little work for so much more reward.

Once again...I am not against DoL from farming. I am against the idea that they can loot combat mob loot with out being present pissing off the entire party escalating to harassment or disbanding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naliee

This would actually make sense. But AFKs still are some what problematic even if they get kicked after being afk 10mins that of course means they really ARE afk, no movement what so ever.

---

Yeah. Unfortunately there is no way to currently deal with those who go AFK. But at least making the changes mentioned could help alleviate any issues people have with loot rolling between battle and gathering classes. I can sort of see why there is no vote-kick system right now (I think you'd see a lot of DoL getting kicked for not participating in combat, or just abuse of it in general), but something needs to be in place to dissuade people from AFKing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lego3400

They are paticpateing. Gatherers also find chests and fulfill objectives.... just like you?

---

In that case, DoW/M should be able to roll on every item you gather. I mean, they are participating too after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Kind of odd to see a topic imploring SE to punish players for playing the game as intended that hasn't been locked yet.

---

Mostly because I have not broken any guideline policies.

Quote:

---

• Posting content that does not follow the theme of the category or thread.
• Posting content that deviates from topics concerning FINAL FANTASY XIV.
• Posting spam, including meaningless characters and white space.
• Posting a number of posts with the same content.Taking or discussing criminal actions.
• Posting that constitutes discrimination against another forum member or group (also including forming groups for the purpose of discrimination), insults, slander, libel, harassment of a group or individual.
• Use of inappropriate or aggressive language.
• Posting obscenity, pornography, propaganda, or other expressions unrelated to the game.
• Posting about commercial, business, advertising, political, or religious matters.
• Posting that would violate anti-stalking laws or orders.
• Posting personal information about yourself or other specific individuals.Posting aimed to create a negative impact on the community or its members.
• Impersonating another person or taking action that might reasonably be mistaken as the actions of another.
• Reproducing, duplicating, altering, supplementing, changing, or other secondary use of this Service’s software, either whole or in part.
• Posting seeking to damage or disparage Square Enix, the forum, FINAL FANTASY XIV, or others.
• Posting content that seeks to interfere with the running of FINAL FANTASY XIV.Posting content with the intention of criticizing either Square Enix staff or specific individuals.
• Doing anything that is obstructs the use of the forum or FINAL FANTASY XIV for other users.
• Infringing upon Square Enix's or any third party’s intellectual property (copyright, trademark, etc.) rights or privacy rights.
• Undertaking any RMT-related actions, including selling items, gil, or accounts for real world currency.
• Attempting to harm or obstruct the operation or use of this forum.
• Doing anything that is prohibited in the the Square Enix Account Terms of Use.
• Taking any other actions that are deemed inappropriate by Square Enix in our sole discretion.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SevenHeavens

I won't stop gathering in df Diadem, it's the easiest way to farm crafting/gathering materias.

---

To be fair, the OP isn't asking you don't, but that you shouldn't be able to roll on mob loot as you aren't participating in the fight. I do not feel that's an unreasonable request.

Oof. I wish you would've made this sound a little less inflammatory.

I think "punish" is too strong of a word considering that gathering is a major part of The Diadem experience. I will agree completely that it is a nuisance when the goals of the party members do not align, however. I sort of proposed this elsewhere, but I'd like to see some kind of implementation that puts gatherers and combat classes into more appropriate groups. If you could queue for The Diadem as a DoL, maybe you could get an undersized party with all DoL players? Maybe DoL classes could have an easier time getting their flight points? I really don't know how it would be implemented, but I do think it's necessary.

As for the AFKers - if you leech in The Diadem, you are just the worst.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by missybee

Oof. I wish you would've made this sound a little less inflammatory.

I think "punish" is too strong of a word considering that gathering is a major part of The Diadem experience. I will agree completely that it is a nuisance when the goals of the party members do not align, however. I sort of proposed this elsewhere, but I'd like to see some kind of implementation that puts gatherers and combat classes into more appropriate groups. If you could queue for The Diadem as a DoL, maybe you could get an undersized party with all DoL players? Maybe DoL classes could have an easier time getting their flight points? I really don't know how it would be implemented, but I do think it's necessary.

As for the AFKers - if you leech in The Diadem, you are just the worst.

---

I agree the title seems too aggressive towards DoL it is just a term I am use to from other video game forums when it comes to taking away something or nerfing. None the less you are right and I do apologies to any DoL professionals who spend their days laboring for crafting materials.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

It would be nice if the chests also drop DoL gear

---

or DoH/DoL V materia obtainable in SOME way, rather than zero or just Mutamix

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reaperking386

Mostly because I have not broken any guideline policies.

---

• Posting that constitutes discrimination against another forum member or group (also including forming groups for the purpose of discrimination), insults, slander, libel, harassment of a group or individual.

Arguably you are, because you are asking for a form of discrimination against other players players based on their use of a DoL class in content that includes gathering nodes for DoL classes.

...and let's not forget the catch all clause;

• Taking any other actions that are deemed inappropriate by Square Enix in our sole discretion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reaperking386

I agree the title seems too aggressive towards DoL it is just a term I am use to from other video game forums when it comes to taking away something or nerfing. None the less you are right and I do apologies to any DoL professionals who spend their days laboring for crafting materials.

---

That was kind of the issue I was taking with it. There's nothing to "punish" DoL for as they're doing nothing wrong by going in and gathering. I don't think they should be allowed to roll on the DoW/DoM drops, though. I always pass them when I go in to gather. The party is already down at least one member, though unless the rest of the party is doing absolutely terrible damage they shouldn't have a problem getting credit on mobs. If at some point I decide to join the group fighting, I start rolling at that point. I also always queue in as DPS instead of tank/healer because I want the group to lose as little as possible as far as combat effectiveness.

AFK'ers can take a long walk off a very small island. Get off your ass and carry your own weight, seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reaperking386

I agree the title seems too aggressive towards DoL it is just a term I am use to from other video game forums when it comes to taking away something or nerfing. None the less you are right and I do apologies to any DoL professionals who spend their days laboring for crafting materials.

---

I mean, I'm not offended. I could just see why other people would see this title and instantly fly into a rage.

Honestly, maybe SE should make The Diadem - Easy available in the DF? I mean, you get the same crafting materials no matter what difficulty you play at. I don't know. I've honestly been wracking my brain trying to think of a solution to this problem as if I am somehow going to effect a change.

What it boils down to is that it basically seems like a huge oversight on the part of the dev team. I truly hope they address some of these issues in the near future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

snip

---

I think we both know full well that this suggestion doesn't fall into the same category as that rule. It's safe to assume that rule relates to "Reaperking386 is a giant butt, don't associate with them", or "Miqo'te forum posters are idiots" and not a suggestion related to the game. The title is a bad one though, you can tell a fair few people didn't read the actual thread and responded to the title.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

• Posting that constitutes discrimination against another forum member or group (also including forming groups for the purpose of discrimination), insults, slander, libel, harassment of a group or individual.

Arguably you are, because you are asking for a form of discrimination against other players players based on their use of a DoL class in content that includes gathering nodes for DoL classes.


...and let's not forget the catch all clause;

• Taking any other actions that are deemed inappropriate by Square Enix in our sole discretion.

---

It is for RL discrimination such as Religious views, race, sex, and sexuality choices. Asking Sqaure to equalize the loot between combat classes and DoL is not against the guidelines.

Quote:

---

[*]Taking any other actions that are deemed inappropriate by Square Enix in our sole discretion.

---

By square's discretion, not yours. If square has allowed my post to continue so long then they are ok with it so long as it stays within the guidelines.