Crafting is fun!

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Now the fact that somebody enjoy crafting doesnt mean that the crafting system is well designed.

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Yes, it does. This is a game: that people enjoy playing it is all that matters.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Yes, it does. This is a game: that people enjoy playing it is all that matters.

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By your logic: Since others don't enjoy crafting that must mean that the system is poorly designed.

So apparently the system is both well and poorly designed.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Yep. I play a game because I enjoy playing the game. Who'd a thunk it??

Maybe I'm atypical though. Maybe, because I have a accomplished a lot in real life, I can just relax and enjoy what I am doing without worrying about how much fake wealth I accumulate.

The people here complaining that crafting is broken because they cannot get rich by crafting anymore ... why are they obsessed with getting rich? If they enjoy the process of crafting, that should be enough, right? Some day, we'll move on to another activity or the servers will shut down, and all that gil will evaporate.

But the memories of the fun I am having will remain. So I'll take fun over gil until I run out of the latter. Because FFXIV is a game, not a job. Treat it like a job, and you will probably wind up hating it.

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I'm not disagreeing.

However many people see a benefit of a vibrant economy. Right now there is little purpose for non-crafters to buy crafted equipment. Changing that would create a more inter-connected economy which I think would be a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Technically? Sure. In practice? No.

So much grind has been added to gathering and crafting that it is no longer feasible for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase to gather and craft their own stuff.



Your logic is actually one of the reasons why gathering and crafting is so bad now, and your suggestions would just make it worse.

Developers catering to greedy players and only caring about keeping prices on the MB high is what's behind all the grind that was added to the system. Yet you want them to make prices higher and force more of the playerbase to gear up via the MB.

I'm all for DoH being capable of crafting BiS items, but before that can happen, gathering and crafting have to be brought back to reasonable levels, so players crafting their own gear can become a real option.

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You just threw out to me the word "greedy" when there was no needed. I'm not greedy, i just pointed out how crafting is useless. Whats to be greedy about? If you craft HQ items it should have more value than NQ one, now would you please explain me why in most of the server we are at a point where people undercut each other to the bone and the NQ price sometimes is even higher than the HQ price? Because there is an INSANE flood of those items in the market, since its so easy to HQ that its pointless. Thats all i'm saying, Greedy has no part in this, i'm pointing out a flaw to the system. So pls dont deviate the focus of the topic. Are you seriously complaining about the "grind" to the system? leveling crafts is the most easy thing you can do in game, its blazing fast. What grind you talkin about?

Im saying 2 simple things here which you totally twisted and didnt understand apparently.
1) there must be a reason to craft something
2) if there are HQ items, there must be a value added to that.

What you mean by "crafting and gathering have to be brought back to reasonable levels"? im not understanding if you are complaining about leveling up craft job, because as i said thats one of the most easy thing to do in game.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Yea the cross class skill will def make it easier. I'm working on those skills now before i try HQ 2 star items on my GSM. The main ones are carpenter and blacksmith, with those you should have a really good shot at HQ. Even without it though you can prob get 50-60% chance at HQ through HQ mats and touches alone. Like anything, your going to get out of it what you put into it. I wouldn't say doing leves to get lvl 50 crafters is all that difficult though. I do agree, it would be nice if you didn't need the cross classes.

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I've experimented with the specialization system without using any level 50 cross class abilities recently and it is possible to HQ up to 1 star items at least. With 2* items, you might want some of the i180 pieces and some HQ components.

Aside from the reliance on rng (I got 2-3 good or excellent procs each time I used the Heart ability, which would be considered average to decent rng), the biggest issue I found was that I was consuming delineations like they were candy. 3 delineations allowed me to use master's mend 2 and nymeia's wheel twice for durability restores (120 durability), comfortably building up 10-11 IQ stacks. Crafting felt far clumsier than the high level cross class approach and byregot's miracle was underwhelming, although I did manage to use it twice.

I think it cost me at least 30k worth of materials for 67 blue scrips, which means I used around 35k worth of delineations. There probably is a more reliable way of using the system, but this method is going to get expensive if you're crafting 1* food or you happen to require a lot of delineations for non star recipes as well.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Are you seriously complaining about the "grind" to the system? leveling crafts is the most easy thing you can do in game, its blazing fast. What grind you talkin about?

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The grind was never in leveling up your DoL and DoH, the grind came after you reached 50 (now 60) with getting better gear. The grind comes from getting materials to actually craft stuff.

Just look at the items you needed to gather and craft for GC daily turn-ins at level 50, and compare them to the stuff you need in Heavensward. And this is just basic stuff. If you don't see how the grind was multiplied by a factor of 3 or more I don't know how to explain it to you.

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Originally Posted by DarkB

Im saying 2 simple things here which you totally twisted and didnt understand apparently.
1) there must be a reason to craft something
2) if there are HQ items, there must be a value added to that.

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There has always been a reason to craft something: using your own gear and items. You don't need to sell stuff for DoL and DoH to have a reason to exist. That's the problem of your logic and the reason why DoL and DoH have been turned to crap.

Like I said, I'm all for DoH being able to craft BiS gear. But before that can happen, players gathering their own mats and crafting their own gear needs to be a real option. It currently isn't for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase. That's the real problem with DoL and DoH.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

I just wanted to say the devs did a good job with the crafting system. It's one of the most comprehensive and fun crafting I have seen in any video game. Even better than Star Ocean 3 which had awesome crafting.

I know lots of people upset that crafting is a little more difficult then they were expecting, but I think the highest star items should be fairly difficult to make. You can get roughly 2-3 pieces of gear each week, which seems more than fair seeing as combat jobs need 2 weeks just for 1 piece.

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Totally agree. The system in lace is it's own minigame, and that's how crafting should be. I was blown away with the system coming from FFXI #fml #facewestonafullmoonforfire. Desynthesizing ? Auto synth! /cheer /fireworks. This is coming from a casual crafter also though, I make my money desynthing dungeon loot but the system is still amazing.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

I do agree, it would be nice if you didn't need the cross classes.

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By rights, you don't. The basic rotation of Steady Hand, Great strides, Advanced touch, added with HQ mats will get you HQ on all cross class parts. I have a level 50 Armorer that got leveled in 1.00 and if I feed her all HQ parts I can HQ. You will still want to get every class to 60 in the end and it isn't about easy or hard. Eventually you are going to get sick of making twin thread and the optic of switching to logs or metal will break the tedium.

It's not much different than Dungeons. I've been in enough to know they are all the same. Tank and spank, run from the AoE, burn down the add's, blah, blah, blah but having a few different environments make them feel different.

Having all crafts to 60 just feels different and reduces the sense of super, micro, specialist and burn out that comes with it. Weaver elite is like being Alex dungeon elite. Sooner or later you will get sick of it.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

By your logic: Since others don't enjoy crafting that must mean that the system is poorly designed.
So apparently the system is both well and poorly designed.

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This is true of all games: none of them are fun for everyone. Which makes statements about them being "poorly designed" (except from the standpoint of the quality and efficiency of the software as software) purely subjective, and not much more meaningful than saying "it is not what I want."

Well, "you can't please all of the people all of the time." -- John Lydgate

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

This is true of all games: none of them are fun for everyone. Which makes statements about them being "poorly designed" (except from the standpoint of the quality and efficiency of the software as software) purely subjective, and not much more meaningful than saying "it is not what I want."

Well, "you can't please all of the people all of the time." -- John Lydgate

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But you can objectively tell when things are going good or wrong.

And 3.0 crafting is absolutely clearly going wrong, the vast mayority of crafters, whole crafting linkshells across all servers in all datacenters have said so. People like the OP are not even a number to consider compared to the ammount of people who isn`t enjoying crafting in its current state.

3.0 red scrips, forced gathering and useless end game are all, objectibly, bad.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Well, "you can't please all of the people all of the time." -- John Lydgate

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This is true. However, ARR crafting *did* please me (and others) and 3.0 crafting no longer pleases us. We're not crazy for wishing things were different, especially if crafting was something about the game we once really enjoyed but no longer do because of the overhaul.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

But you can objectively tell when things are going good or wrong.
And 3.0 crafting is absolutely clearly going wrong.

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This is provably incorrect. I'm enjoying 3.0 gathering and crafting. Whether I am speed-gathering for Favor mats or rolling the dice in a 2-star craft, I am having fun. And thank goodness there's a scrip cap, or my IRL job might be at risk.

Therefore 3.0 crafting is subjectively going good, from my point of view. And like spicy food, if something is subjectively good to some and subjectively bad to others, then it is impossible for it to be objectively good or bad.

Sure, 3.0 crafting is different from 2.0 crafting, like habanero chili peppers are different from green peppers, so people who liked one might not like the other. But it's just a matter of taste, not of objective good or bad.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

This is true. However, ARR crafting *did* please me (and others) and 3.0 crafting no longer pleases us. We're not crazy for wishing things were different, especially if crafting was something about the game we once really enjoyed but no longer do because of the overhaul.

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I at least have never said you are crazy. I just say that I am enjoying the current system, but I also enjoy sashimi, which not everyone does.
3.0 crafting isn't broken, it's just not to everyone's taste.

It reminds me months ago many crafters suggested high-level content bosses only drop mats,
so forcing the players "interact" with crafters to craft their gears... ^^;

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

This is provably incorrect. I'm enjoying 3.0 gathering and crafting. Whether I am speed-gathering for Favor mats or rolling the dice in a 2-star craft, I am having fun. And thank goodness there's a scrip cap, or my IRL job might be at risk.

Therefore 3.0 crafting is subjectively going good, from my point of view. And like spicy food, if something is subjectively good to some and subjectively bad to others, then it is impossible for it to be objectively good or bad.

Sure, 3.0 crafting is different from 2.0 crafting, like habanero chili peppers are different from green peppers, so people who liked one might not like the other. But it's just a matter of taste, not of objective good or bad.

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Again wrong.

Objectively speaking, when you have, way over too many members of the community NOT enjoying your content, is cause you messed up and your content is OBJECTIVELY BAD even if someone likes it, as for example, there is people that likes to be abused, its fun for them, but the act of abusing is still objectively bad.

One "i like thread" and a few persons like yourself doesn`t even weight against the several tens of threads on all laguages across all data servers and all the craftsmen and woman dissapointed and even whole guilds (be it FC or LSs) of crafters going down thanks to the changes of 3.0 ... It`s a bad system, 3.0 was a bad change, if you enjoy it, good for you, but is still, objectively speaking, for the way grater (by landslide) mayority of crafters who doesn`t like it is a terrible system that needs changes, a full 180º turn if you ask me, this whole concept of killing omni-crafting by forcing interdependence is a mess.

If you have people, diehard mastercrafters droping their main activity because of a patch, said patch is bad.

Exactly like bad raid content makes raiders to leave and drop the games.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Again wrong.

Objectively speaking, when you have, way over too many members of the community NOT enjoying your content, is cause you messed up and your content is OBJECTIVELY BAD even if someone likes it, as for example, there is people that likes to be abused, its fun for them, but the act of abusing is still objectively bad.

One "i like thread" and a few persons like yourself doesn`t even weight against the several tens of threads ...

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Oh nonsense. People like to complain, and Internet forums are never a valid indication of how a majority feel because they are often populated by fanatics/trolls. The only ones with any valid data about the popularity of 3.0 crafting and gathering is SE, not you, not me.

Quit pretending that most people agree with you, that's not something you can possibly know.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

If you have people, diehard mastercrafters droping their main activity because of a patch, said patch is bad.

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Awe, did that bad Yoshida-san take away your widdle gil-printing machine? So sad, too bad.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Oh nonsense. People like to complain, and Internet forums are never a valid indication of how a majority feel because they are often populated by fanatics/trolls. The only ones with any valid data about the popularity of 3.0 crafting and gathering is SE, not you, not me.

Quit pretending that most people agree with you, that's not something you can possibly know.

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Ask every crafter on every server and I guarantee you most will say they hate it. Many many server-leading crafters have quit because the system is objectively bad. Anyone who defends it is the 1% that ruins games by making awful requests that result in bad game design. If you can't figure out why this system is bad, I truly feel for your well-being.

Curious, beyond what I can gather is the pain of having a weekly cap on scripts, what actually is wrong with crafting now?

Gathering from what I understand is just a pain in the arse because Favors aren't rewarding or something. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

As to the whole objectively/subjectively bad? The two aren't related. People are *weird*. Fairly universally. Some people like some things, other people like other things. It's fairly safe to say that something can be objectively bad by almost every metric, and still have someone enjoy it. Some of them are the gaming equivalent of those who climb Everest for fun .. some of them just enjoy brutally punishing systems .. some of them just aren't experienced in other systems (or, for instance, ARR), so this being better then drop mats in box, take out item that has random stuff on it seems like a hugely wonderful progress.

Now ... the reasons why I would say crafting is bad:
#1 - there is nothing endgame that is not crafting related. Nothing that is competitive, interesting, or viable for use. It's not a case of "suboptimal" -- the ilvl spread for drops/tomes is a full 40. The absolute best crafted piece is 160. Law is so easy to acquire that it's trivial to have full 170, and takes only a little while for full 180. 5 weeks can get you full 190, with several 200 pieces.
#2 - Scrip tokens. Being able to craft 2-3 pieces a week, if you do full tokens, and gather full time (with 100% exactly the favors you need exactly the mats you need .. plus access to all the folklore items ....)
#3 - Specialists. Play with your hamster wheel! Whistle while you're doing it! Enjoy the RNG! Most of the abilities are lesser versions of existing abilities, with more RNG mixed in. The few that aren't are hyper dependent on RNG -- not just 50/70/80/90 ... but dependent on getting a series of 'good'/'excellent' or eat up the already extremely limited CP pool. Or both.
#4 - Serious community arguments. All related to the above. You have those who have crafted for ages, worked at leveling everything up .. call them the old guard. You have the people who are just starting, working on their first class ... and you have huge disagreements between them. Worst offender? specialist recipes, which I really hope don't get implemented (I'm old guard)
#5 - Too much uncertainty. Nobody knows what's coming next .. and most of us have had enough kicks in the teeth to not trust it. It's not generally 'looking forward eagerly for new content', at best it's 'looking forward with trepidation' going to 'looking forward with dread' and at worst ... 'not crafting anymore', because none of the changes implemented since 3.0 have been significant. Gathering got 1 that was helpful; but it wasn't a big change. It did make the system barely usable though.
#6 - It breaks the thriving interconnected market ARR had, where:
On one side, dungeons/raids provided mats directly and through seals and tomes, everyone could earn gil that way, gear was available for DoW/DoM that was, if not BiS, at very least competitive
On another side, gatherers built up mats which crafters needed, and purchased new gathering gear which helped them
On the third side, crafters bought and acquired mats and made gear for themselves and sold gear for others.

Everyone was able to participate and everyone benefited from it. With the lack of things to sell at the top end, this system is broken. It's become two separate endgames now -- DoW/DoM and Crafter/Gatherer ... not one system that interacts at the top level. And of course ... while you're leveling to 60, you get several full gearsets of HQ gear as quest rewards ... for War and Magic both. I think that's more insult to injury personally.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

Curious, beyond what I can gather is the pain of having a weekly cap on scripts, what actually is wrong with crafting now?

Gathering from what I understand is just a pain in the arse because Favors aren't rewarding or something. (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

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1. 3 hours of 100% RNG based boring gathering for 10 minutes of crafting
2. Everything is weekly capped.
3. There are no useful items to craft.
4. Reusing same models over again, no new glamours.
5. The 2 star market is dead on all servers.
6. No anti-DC measurements in place, you can loose a week of work in 1 DC.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

6. No anti-DC measurements in place, you can loose a week of work in 1 DC.

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Yeah, what crafting lacks is a way to do 100% success-rate Reclaim by pulling the Ethernet cable out of the back of your gaming system, that's what's wrong with it -- not.

However, I have read that people can contact customer support to get their mats back if they DC during a craft. Ever try that?

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Yeah, what crafting lacks is a way to do 100% success-rate Reclaim by pulling the Ethernet cable out of the back of your gaming system, that's what's wrong with it -- not.

However, I have read that people can contact customer support to get their mats back if they DC during a craft. Ever try that?

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I never said a 100% success rate reclaim is what's needed, but there are many ways to solve this. It IS a problem even if you blindly defend it as it currently stands.

Customer Service do not refund anything in this case.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

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1. Was that the favors thing I was hearing about? Beyond that, if one where to go out and get materials themselves and that takes a while, doesn't that beat buying said materials off the MB?
2. What exactly is capped weekly? Does crafting an item have an actual cooldown or is it the materials that are capped?
3. Actually a issue, but one I both understand and sympathize with. I understand crafters want to make items worth a damn, but I also know requiring a crafter when the prices tend to be hat on arse benefits nobody but the crafter.
4. Also a concern, but to me seems more of a case that will change as the expansion goes on. Time will tell.
5. I assume this has to do with Point 3.
6. Probably should, but considering the constant hell that is Server Space, I wouldn't know how to do so.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Again wrong.

Objectively speaking, when you have, way over too many members of the community NOT enjoying your content, is cause you messed up and your content is OBJECTIVELY BAD even if someone likes it, as for example, there is people that likes to be abused, its fun for them, but the act of abusing is still objectively bad.

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I don't believe you comprehend the definition of objective. Where is your mounds of data and empirical evidence stating your claim, because banking your claim on "comments on the internet" or "the opinions of a few diehard crafters" is actually subjective.

Back on point, I have not gotten a crafter to 60, even when I had my 50s, I used them for desynth and not much else, but the actual system and minigame that is crafting is by far superior to any other crafting I've seen in other games.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Yeah, what crafting lacks is a way to do 100% success-rate Reclaim by pulling the Ethernet cable out of the back of your gaming system, that's what's wrong with it -- not.

However, I have read that people can contact customer support to get their mats back if they DC during a craft. Ever try that?

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How about being able to re-log and still be mid-craft? You wont lose your mats, or have them all returned, only the progress you made towards your craft will be saved. No cheating the system, but nothing will be lost either. Not sure if it's possible but it's an idea.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

It IS a problem even if you blindly defend it as it currently stands.

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How many times has a player lost a craft because of a DC? You don't have any idea how often this occurs system-wide, do you?

So saying it is a problem is well and good, but whether it is a problem worth the devs spending their finite time on, instead of on, say, new content, you don't have any clue at all about, do you?

I get that you are unhappy with the system. But I don't care, because I like it the way it is and don't want it changed into what you seem to want it to be.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Back on point, I have not gotten a crafter to 60, even when I had my 50s, I used them for desynth and not much else, but the actual system and minigame that is crafting is by far superior to any other crafting I've seen in other games.

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Yeah, the actual crafting system in the game is great. The problem is the excessive grind in obtaining mats and crafting gear that was added for the sole purpose of pleasing the small minority of players that want the rest of the playerbase driven away from crafting so they're forced to buy their stuff.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

How many times has a player lost a craft because of a DC? You don't have any idea how often this occurs system-wide, do you?

So saying it is a problem is well and good, but whether it is a problem worth the devs spending their finite time on, instead of on, say, new content, you don't have any clue at all about, do you?

I get that you are unhappy with the system. But I don't care, because I like it the way it is and don't want it changed into what you seem to want it to be.

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The fact that it can affect someone, anyone at any time makes it a problem. This is something the developers could fix in a matter of hours.

I don't do battle content at all but I like the fact that there is little variety in dungeons and that people get bored or frustrated with it. I like it and I want it to stay that way forever, because I like bad game design.

That is literally what you said, I'm just using the above sentence to show how ridiculous your statement is, by using a different scenario.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

The fact that it can affect someone, anyone at any time makes it a problem. This is something the developers could fix in a matter of hours.

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Now you're just making things up, it seems. MMO databases are complex and tricksy. Either you are unaware of this fact, or you are ignoring it (and hoping your readers do as well) because it is inconvenient. Either way, your statement is not credible.

You entertain the conceit that since you don't like crafting, it is "boring", "frustrating," "bad." My wife and I are enjoying it, and that trumps your conceits.

That said: SE has metrics. They know (or can know) who is running favor nodes and how often. They know who is crafting, what they are crafting, and how often they DC when crafting. They'll figure out from those metrics what's working and what needs adjusting or fixing. They don't need your advice, especially given your apparent ignorance of MMO coding realities.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

6. No anti-DC measurements in place, you can loose a week of work in 1 DC.

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I have desynthed 1000s of loot drops and crafted items, and I think I have lost one to a DC. The actual chances of this happening are 1/1000s unless you can provide me with other data to show otherwise. So this is a pretty week argument concerning the scrip grind.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Yeah, the actual crafting system in the game is great. The problem is the excessive grind in obtaining mats and crafting gear that was added for the sole purpose of pleasing the small minority of players that want the rest of the playerbase driven away from crafting so they're forced to buy their stuff.

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It's actually protecting the playerbase from those who would do nothing but craft for 100s of hours (RMT). by locking scrips behind a weekly number, you allow the whole playerbase to advance at the same pace, instead of 10% at the top, and everyone else trying to catch up or disposing of the idea and just buying what they want from the 10%.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

The problem is ... crafting gear that was added for the sole purpose of pleasing the small minority of players that want the rest of the playerbase driven away from crafting so they're forced to buy their stuff.

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Given how little of the L51+ gear you can craft are of use to anyone but crafters, and the easy availablity of L51-59 gear from vendors and scrip/tomestones, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. One complaint about 3.0 crafting is that the DoW/DoM classes don't need crafted items. And for things like foods and potions, the L51+ stuff isn't that much better (and does not sell as well) as the L50- stuff.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Now you're just making things up, it seems. MMO databases are complex and tricksy. Either you are unaware of this fact, or you are ignoring it (and hoping your readers do as well) because it is inconvenient. Either way, your statement is not credible.

You entertain the conceit that since you don't like crafting, it is "boring", "frustrating," "bad." My wife and I are enjoying it, and that trumps your conceits.

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I'm aware of the complexity that come with MMO's, but the solution is incredibly simple, so simple in fact I'm surprised even someone like you can't figure it out.

But it's not like I can convince someone who loves the system so much they'd enjoy gathering 3 hours a week and loosing all of that in a single DC every week of the remainder of this year. I suppose if that happened to you (however unlikely), you would write a love letter to Square commending them on how amazing it was to loose months of hard work in hours.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

It's actually protecting the playerbase from those who would do nothing but craft for 100s of hours (RMT).

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It also protects my continued employment by limiting the temptation to gather and craft instead of working for a living. I work from home on my own schedule, so it's a real danger.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

It's actually protecting the playerbase from those who would do nothing but craft for 100s of hours (RMT). by locking scrips behind a weekly number, you allow the whole playerbase to advance at the same pace, instead of 10% at the top, and everyone else trying to catch up or disposing of the idea and just buying what they want from the 10%.

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No it isn't. Making items rare is what's forcing players to get them from the MB. Take that out of the equation and it doesn't matter what the gilsellers do because players have the option of crafting items themselves.

Not to mention that the current inflated economy actually gives gilsellers more customers.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

It also protects my continued employment by limiting the temptation to gather and craft instead of working for a living. I work from home on my own schedule, so it's a real danger.

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Lol, that's a really craptastic argument to defend this system.

I guess you could argue that the system also protects my job, as its killing all the enjoyment I have from the game and making me not log-in.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Given how little of the L51+ gear you can craft are of use to anyone but crafters, and the easy availablity of L51-59 gear from vendors and scrip/tomestones, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. One complaint about 3.0 crafting is that the DoW/DoM classes don't need crafted items. And for things like foods and potions, the L51+ stuff isn't that much better (and does not sell as well) as the L50- stuff.

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Quests only give you gear the first time you complete them. People leveling 2nd, 3rd or more jobs will make use of crafted gear. Greedy DoH love to pretend that you can't make gil off of level 51-60 DoW/DoM gear, yet reality proves otherwise. I certainly made a lot of gil just selling quest rewards. Plenty of them sold for 200k.

As for DoW and DoM not being forced to get gear from the MB, that's actually the only saving grace of this crappy system and unless they bring DoH/DoL back to reasonable levels, I hope that never changes. Catering to greedy players and the inflated MB has ruined DoL and DoH, they need to be kept away from DoW and DoM progression. Though given that the relic quest is coming in 3.1, they're likely to tie them to the MB like they did with the 2.0 relics for Novus and up.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

I'm aware of the complexity that come with MMO's, but the solution is incredibly simple, so simple in fact I'm surprised even someone like you can't figure it out.

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After 20+ years as a senior Computers and Systems Engineer doing R&D at a couple of Fortune 100 companies, I find your attempt to use personal insults as a smokescreen nothing but amusing. I'm calling your bluff.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

I guess you could argue that the system also protects my job, as its killing all the enjoyment I have from the game and making me not log-in.

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Now if only it could keep you from wasting time on the forums ...

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Now if only it could keep you from wasting time on the forums ...

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Ah yes. I also wish when players like you started complaining about having too much competition on the MB when ARR was released that you guys had left too.

The game would be a lot more fun nowadays.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Ah yes. I also wish when players like you started complaining about having too much competition on the MB when ARR was released that you guys had left too.

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Another complainer who resorts to wholey-fabricated personal attacks on people who disagree with them ... tsk tsk.

A "player like me" has never and would never complain about competition on the MB because I don't care much about gil. As long as I have enough for repairs and teleports, I am fine, everything else I can gather or make for myself (except fish, for which I rely on my wife). I craft because I enjoy crafting, not to become a gagillionaire. So I don't mind that end-game crafting is no longer a gil-minting machine for a small number of crafters. I was never in that company anyway.