New Optional Items avaible on Mogstation!

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Originally Posted by Twilite

That's because you're stupid.

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Challenge Accepted. Let's break down your post...

"They are getting desperate" - Post SE's financial reports or GTFO since you're under the delusion and assumption that SE is so broke now that they have resorted to *gasp* selling old (optional) event trinkets in their own cash shop because...

"people like me stopped buying Fantasias, name/server change things" - first of all, "people like me" has about as much weight to your argument as a pubic hair in a hurricane. Yoshi P has stated that this game is more reliant on a reliable source of income in the form of the monthly fee that YOU pay for.

"I guess" - I'm sure you do

http://media.giphy.com/media/3uzYPLGAqDTtS/giphy.gif

Replies to threads like these are why I prefer to stay on /r/FFXIV. This is a perfectly fair cash shop model, they're including items you could already obtain if you had a subscription at the time, for free! "But our sub pays for these items" if you weren't subbed at the time they were being created, then no it didn't. Or would you rather they don't add them back in the game at all, so you can never get them? That would entice people to sub when these events are going so they can get the items if they're taking a break, or maybe you'd prefer they add items that were never obtainable in game to make that extra money.

What other P2P game gives users several new sets of items every seasonal event? It sure isn't WoW.

No new hairstyles, or whole outfits?

Lame.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

That's because you're stupid.

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Originally Posted by BannedatRegistration

Challenge Accepted. Let's break down your post...

"They are getting desperate" - Post SE's financial reports or GTFO since you're under the delusion and assumption that SE is so broke now that they have resorted to *gasp* selling old (optional) event trinkets in their own cash shop because...

"people like me stopped buying Fantasias, name/server change things" - first of all, "people like me" has about as much weight to your argument as a pubic hair in a hurricane. Yoshi P has stated that this game is more reliant on a reliable source of income in the form of the monthly fee that YOU pay for.

"I guess" - I'm sure you do

http://media.giphy.com/media/3uzYPLGAqDTtS/giphy.gif

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http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enh...2950034-32.gif

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Originally Posted by Mikhaill

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/enh...2950034-32.gif

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http://media.giphy.com/media/xfhQJVdsI5a00/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Colorful

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You seem to think the mogstation exists for a reason OTHER than some slimy business men looking for content to strip out of the game to sell back as DLC. How about removing the 2.0 Hildebrand storyline, and selling access to it on the mogstation? I bet people would pay extra for that. None of that was pay to win, it's all cosmetic, and free to people with subscriptions at the time.

It's corporate greed refurbishing what was originally creative attention to detail. Not even well-managed greed, given today's lazy update with missing items and emotes.

And don't use WoW's apathy to updating itself as justification for SE's greed. Sylvanas had a Night Elf character model for years, because Blizzard was too lazy to give her an appropriate character model, and the Goblin faction leader still looks NOTHING like his official artwork after 5 years, despite comic books and CCG using his "actual" appearance as official canon. Blizzard is lazy and greedy from a developer perspective, while FFXIV's devs have been nothing but creative when it comes to the look and design of the world.

I was expecting to be able to get the Lady's Clogs off the Mogstation once this stuff went up.

If there isn't a way to get them in the new summer event even, I'm going to be really disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

You seem to think the mogstation exists for a reason OTHER than some slimy business men looking for content to strip out of the game to sell back as DLC. How about removing the 2.0 Hildebrand storyline, and selling access to it on the mogstation? I bet people would pay extra for that. None of that was pay to win, it's all cosmetic, and free to people with subscriptions at the time.

It's corporate greed refurbishing what was originally creative attention to detail. Not even well-managed greed, given today's lazy update with missing items and emotes.

And don't use WoW's apathy to updating itself as justification for SE's greed. Sylvanas had a Night Elf character model for years, because Blizzard was too lazy to give her an appropriate character model, and the Goblin faction leader still looks NOTHING like his official artwork after 5 years, despite comic books and CCG using his "actual" appearance as official canon. Blizzard is lazy and greedy from a developer perspective, while FFXIV's devs have been nothing but creative when it comes to the look and design of the world.

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The BUTTMAD is strong.

It's all OPTIONAL, just don't buy it.

You don't NEED the cash shop to enjoy the game, it's pure vanity and cosmetic stuff.

Just as your subscription does not entitle you to everything you seem to think it does. It's not changing either because PLENTY of people will buy the stuff, myself included. Especially if it makes people like you this mad.

Being a Business =/= Greedy

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Originally Posted by Dree-Elle

Cosmetic, does not affect the game = it's fair game.

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NO.

(ヽಠ_ಠ)ヽ ミ ┻━┻ ' ´- (╯.□.)╯

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Originally Posted by Ditto

Especially if it makes people like you this mad.

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The thing is, I already have all of this stuff, and I will continue getting these items with my subscription. It's just that every time I wear any of it, I get /tell of "how to I get that item?". I used to say (prior to mogstation opening last october) wait for the holiday, and buy from a vendor. Now I say, "spend $5 on it, they removed it from the game any other way".

I've seen this chip away at LOTS of people's enjoyment of the game. It's a dumb move from an enjoyment factor for a game with a monthly subscription cost. The people who run the mogstation are not the people that make the seasonal gear. Profits from the mogstation are not visibly raising the quality of seasonal gear, and if anything, seasonal gear has been less splendid since the mogstation started reselling items.

Businessmen are simply removing art assets from the game and reselling them for $3 to $5 a piece. Go ahead and spend your money on outfits I got for free. Maybe they will put your money into developing the FFXII HD release I've been waiting for.

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Originally Posted by Dree-Elle

Cosmetic, does not affect the game = it's fair game.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Replies to threads like these are why I prefer to stay on /r/FFXIV. This is a perfectly fair cash shop model, they're including items you could already obtain if you had a subscription at the time, for free! "But our sub pays for these items" if you weren't subbed at the time they were being created, then no it didn't. Or would you rather they don't add them back in the game at all, so you can never get them? That would entice people to sub when these events are going so they can get the items if they're taking a break, or maybe you'd prefer they add items that were never obtainable in game to make that extra money.

What other P2P game gives users several new sets of items every seasonal event? It sure isn't WoW.

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It's also fair game to criticize. Some of you people don't realize this is a forum for discussion, not a circle jerk.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

It's also fair game to criticize. Some of you people don't realize this is a forum for discussion, not a circle jerk.

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What is wrong with these comments? They state exactly what they think that cosmetic is not P2W or that they think it is a fair system with even an explanation of why they think it is.

@Gunspec Your post sound pretty ignorant. Do you even know how business works? These cash shop items supplement the companies revenue so that they can continue to make money with little to no effect on the paying customer. Without this, you would see increase in subs prices and no one wants that. I would say that SE has done right by its community especially after 1.0 disaster. 2-3 bucks for some ingame shirts is hardly greed.

i'd say, look Timmy a subscription fee is usually 14.99 a month, maybe you haven't played for 3 months so you didn't spend the 45 dollars that we spent playing the game. You gotta look at holiday items as perks for being subbed to the game if you miss an event, it's not all lost, if you truly want the item then pay for it.

Keep in mind you only have one body so while those 6 options might look like 18 dollars in reality you only have to spend 3 dollars for the one you really want to use. Want the emote, another 2 dollars and finally both minions 10 dollars. That comes to 15 dollars, surprising number is it not? If you ignore the "need" to have every body just to have it then all you are paying to the mog station is a months sub for 2 minions, 1 emote and 1 body piece.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

It's also fair game to criticize. Some of you people don't realize this is a forum for discussion, not a circle jerk.

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Am I not discussing why these items aren't the end of the world, instead of circlejerking that the cash shop is the worst thing to happen to FFXIV? Some people here would rather have the items removed permanently.

And yes, SE is looking to make money. How evil of them. These items are literally the price of a bottle of water, if they were $10 ea. then sure complain.

Just a reminder that there were some items in FFXI that were released once for a special event and then were gone forever. Sure, they were vanity items, but you had NO option to obtain them. Never released as events, and only some were released as prizes later on.

I for one am happy that you can purchase event items you missed. I also suspect that since the full set of gear was not released on Mog station, some of it will still be purchasable with gil in game.

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Originally Posted by justinjarjar

What is wrong with these comments?

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The same thing that's wrong with comments stating their distaste for the cash shop. Nothing.

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Originally Posted by Lathander81

@Gunspec Your post sound pretty ignorant.

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Why would a single outfit a month (or in most cases, a choker or earring) lead to an increase in subscription price? And the effect on the paying customer is already that art assets are removed and resold as DLC. Yoshida has spoke in great length about how the subscription model allows his team to accurately predict how much money they have to work with from a development angle. Not once have I read a statement suggesting that the mogstation actually redirects its money into the art design budget.

It is a supplemental income for SE to be sure, but its implementation coincided with seasonal updates that were 80% refurbished art made into housing furniture, for housing wards which devs admit they don't have the appropriate resources to expand adequately. If the mogstation profits were being redistributed into servers for housing wards, I wouldn't complain, but that clearly isn't the case.

And it's $3 for rings and $5 for shirts... all of which were free for me.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Am I not discussing why these items aren't the end of the world, instead of circlejerking that the cash shop is the worst thing to happen to FFXIV? Some people here would rather have the items removed permanently.

And yes, SE is looking to make money. How evil of them. These items are literally the price of a bottle of water, if they were $10 ea. then sure complain.

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I'd rather the items remain free, not removed. And I'm not opposed to the idea of an item store. I've got the Y'da pet, and have been on the verge of buying slepnir more than once.

The problem I see, is that holidays roll around, and the current selection of holiday items can be really weak. Valentine 2015 was what, just an earring? There was a barding from the quest, and some housing items, but no outfit for the year. Christmas 2014 was a 2nd santa outfit, but was missing the gloves from the promotional artwork. Compare that to Christmas 2013, when the snowman, santa, AND reindeer outfits were available simultaneously WITH a chocobo barding.

Imagine if Halloween 2015 doesn't have an outfit, but instead has a little pumpkin ring to match the old choker and earring. Well, I'll still be running around with my free ghost costume (I wear it usually anyway), but it will still be the lamest holiday ever.

Maybe I'd be less frosty if they kept TWO years of items available for free. That way they can do an off-year for costumes, and not leave newer players feeling left out.

It's pretty nice that they're doing this, too bad they didn't add the sandals though. (Or at least, not yet?)

Aymeric minion pls. Take my money.

If any emote is going to be a Cash shop exclusive it better be a...

"Take my Gil!" Emote (aka /takemygil )

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

booooooooooo

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Pretty much. :| SE likes to give a big "f you" to new players and to old players who have new characters.

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Originally Posted by Dree-Elle

Cosmetic, does not affect the game = it's fair game.

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This is usually the standard in a free-to-play MMO.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Because they've only ever sold vanity items and it's as simple as not buying it if you don't like it? No matter what SE does people will complain. They put old items in the cash shop and people whine about having to pay money for vanity. They repeat events or repeatedly give the same reward and people will bitch about SE not doing anything new. They put them in a place like the Golden Saucer and people will complain about the MGP cost. They put them in something like ventures and people will fuss about the rarity. The list goes on.

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This is so much crap. >_> 1.) I will definitely refuse to buy it, but that does not negate my anger at SE's business decisions. 2.) Your complaint argument here is a complete strawman. SE had a perfectly working system where previous holiday items were available for a small amount of gil; pretty much no one complained about that. Then they changed their system into something that pisses some people off.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

It's all OPTIONAL, just don't buy it.

You don't NEED the cash shop to enjoy the game, it's pure vanity and cosmetic stuff.

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This is such an illogical argument. SE literally removed content from the game to charge us extra for it. That is not something you should defend. And trying to argue that it's "just cosmetics" so we shouldn't care and doesn't affect us is absurd, when clearly people care about cosmetic items otherwise we wouldn't be upset and SE wouldn't put so much effort into releasing cosmetic items.

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Originally Posted by GreenMagus

It's pretty nice that they're doing this, too bad they didn't add the sandals though. (Or at least, not yet?)

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From what people are saying, the sandals are from 1.0 and have shown up in multiple summer events, so it's likely that those, as well as the knickers may be obtainable in the game itself from this upcoming one.

Just gotta wait and see I guess.

I dread the day that I'll click on the "New Optional Items Available" thing and see totally new content, even though it will certainly happen at this rate.

It's funny to think that if I was a new player, I would probably not try this game, seeing so many items behind a pay wall.

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Originally Posted by Lathander81

@Gunspec Your post sound pretty ignorant. Do you even know how business works? These cash shop items supplement the companies revenue so that they can continue to make money with little to no effect on the paying customer. Without this, you would see increase in subs prices and no one wants that. I would say that SE has done right by its community especially after 1.0 disaster. 2-3 bucks for some ingame shirts is hardly greed.

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There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the cash shop sales are preventing some mystical increase in sub prices. This is pure profit.

I will never cease being amazed at how many people gleefully defend being nickeled and dimed on top of paying a monthly subscription fee.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the only reason some previous event items were available to purchase with gil the next year was to allow the people who hadn't played 1.x (which is where those items were originally from) a chance to obtain them. It was never meant to be a permanent thing, merely a chance to make the 1.x items available to the new 2.0 players.
AFAIK they never allowed you to purchase any of the event items created specifically for 2.0+ with gil later on. It was exclusive to the 1.x event items.

As somebody who started playing a month after the original event ended, this makes me very happy.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the only reason some previous event items were available to purchase with gil the next year was to allow the people who hadn't played 1.x (which is where those items were originally from) a chance to obtain them. It was never meant to be a permanent thing, merely a chance to make the 1.x items available to the new 2.0 players.
AFAIK they never allowed you to purchase any of the event items created specifically for 2.0+ with gil later on. It was exclusive to the 1.x event items.

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I distinctly recall being able to purchase the first 2.0 summer bikinis on alts I didn't have when that holiday rolled around a second time. As far as I know, SE never said it wasn't meant to be a permanent thing. It was a clear design decision from the perspective of a player. All you're doing is trying to backtrack in justifying their really shady, f2p-style business tactic.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

You seem to think the mogstation exists for a reason OTHER than some slimy business men looking for content to strip out of the game to sell back as DLC. How about removing the 2.0 Hildebrand storyline, and selling access to it on the mogstation? I bet people would pay extra for that. None of that was pay to win, it's all cosmetic, and free to people with subscriptions at the time.

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1. No quests get sold in the MB
2. Hildibrand storyline is neither a seasonal event item nor another vanity item or an item in general

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I distinctly recall being able to purchase the first 2.0 summer bikinis on alts I didn't have when that holiday rolled around a second time. As far as I know, SE never said it wasn't meant to be a permanent thing. It was a clear design decision from the perspective of a player. All you're doing is trying to backtrack in justifying their really shady, f2p-style business tactic.

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Be happy, those bikinis are not in the cash shop

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Originally Posted by Austherus

I dread the day I'll click on the "New Optional Items Available" thing and see totally new content, even though it will certainly happen at this rate.

It's funny to think that if I was a new player, I would probably not try this game, seeing so many items behind a pay wall.

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I'm ok with optional items to a point. The first store item I remember in WoW was a minion, the first month proceeds of which were donated to the make-a-wish foundation, which Blizzard had collaborated with multiple times in this past. That was a nice touch, and the pets and mounts that followed were gradual and unique enough that it didn't seem like they were deliberately making cuts from the base game. It was only around 4 or 5 years ago that they went mad with power.

FFXIV started by introducing a Slepnir store mount at the SAME TIME they introduced an Odin battle. While not as hard as the previous primal extreme fights, Odin was the first primal not to drop a themed mount, despite being the only primal that road a mount. That felt like something that deserved to be in the base game, in my opinion, and is the main reason I've hesitated to embrace the new stuff that has appeared on the mogstation.

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Originally Posted by LunaHoshino

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the only reason some previous event items were available to purchase with gil the next year was to allow the people who hadn't played 1.x (which is where those items were originally from) a chance to obtain them. It was never meant to be a permanent thing, merely a chance to make the 1.x items available to the new 2.0 players.
AFAIK they never allowed you to purchase any of the event items created specifically for 2.0+ with gil later on. It was exclusive to the 1.x event items.

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I obtained 1.x seasonal items for free despite not being a subscriber during the original events. New players have to pay nearly $50 to obtain the 1.x items that I got for free. Why did I get the chance to obtain free items, while new players need to pay money? New players should be a little upset that the trend started in 2.0-2.4 didn't continue.

Of course, I'm not going to delete my items or anything. I'm just going to stand in the forums and wave my finger at someone in SE who decided to do this. Not cool, man. /disappointed

\

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

I'm ok with optional items to a point. The first store item I remember in WoW was a minion, the first month proceeds of which were donated to the make-a-wish foundation, which Blizzard had collaborated with multiple times in this past. That was a nice touch, and the pets and mounts that followed were gradual and unique enough that it didn't seem like they were deliberately making cuts from the base game. It was only around 4 or 5 years ago that they went mad with power.

FFXIV started by introducing a Slepnir store mount at the SAME TIME they introduced an Odin battle. While not as hard as the previous primal extreme fights, Odin was the first primal not to drop a themed mount, despite being the only primal that road a mount. That felt like something that deserved to be in the base game, in my opinion, and is the main reason I've hesitated to embrace the new stuff that has appeared on the mogstation.

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The Odin mount is the only thing that I don't like being in there.

It would've been much better being a drop in the Odin trial, or even given as reason to do the Odin fate, which many people have no reason to do anymore.

Old event items however and the minions, I have no problem with. Same goes for anything original that is added, which they are really lacking. Sleipnir just left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouth.

*triggers*

I'm just kinda laughing at the people claim that "their subscriptions" pay for this content?

I'd like to see the internal financial documentation you have that leads you to come to that conclusion.

The money you give to Square Enix, goes to Square Enix. Then some, maybe, goes towards FFXIV development.

But it might go to FFXV. It might go to a *gasp* Mobile title! Oh the horror!

Sorry but you don't get to dictate how they spend the money you give them. You're not paying for the content. You're paying for the permission to play. So long as you approve of the content enough to subscribe, the rest is left to their discretion. Everything short of that is delusional.

Again, you are not SE's employers, you're their customers. You do not get to dictate how they spend their money, or where your money is going.

You CAN however, criticize updates to a service you are paying for. In which case, the proper argument would be that, as a service, you would like certain parts of that service to not be time limited to a singular occurrence of an event. They are entitled to disagree and not listen to you, or listen to you and change it. And you are entitled to unsubscribe or maintain your subscription. This is the nature of a business relationship. You do not own them. You debate your case in hopes to come to an agreement with them - but ultimately they dictate your value as a customer, while you dictate your personal value of their product.

You don't cross those streams. It doesn't work out and it makes the argument look foolish.

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Originally Posted by Ditto

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The Odin mount is the only thing that I don't like being in there.

It would've been much better being a drop in the Odin trial, or even given as reason to do the Odin fate, which many people have no reason to do anymore.

Old event items however and the minions, I have no problem with. Same goes for anything original that is added, which they are really lacking. Sleipnir just left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouth.

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And my problem with the store is mostly the ghost costume. I love that outfit so much, but they launched the store right before halloween, and never re-released the ghost costume for gil. I knew a lot of new players who wanted the costume, and we were totally going to ghost up mor dhona, but when they slapped a $5 pricetag on the outfit, my ghost army plans fell apart.

I guess it's impossible to MAKE an optional item store without some bad taste going around.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

You do not own them. You debate your case in hopes to come to an agreement with them - but ultimately they dictate your value as a customer, while you dictate your personal value of their product.

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Congrats on figuring out why people complain on forums. I'd give you a ghost costume as a reward, but I'd rather not pay $5 for it.

Optional item store is a kind way of saying "Filthy cash shop that doesn't belong in a P2P MMO".

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

Optional item store is a kind way of saying "Filthy cash shop that doesn't belong in a P2P MMO".

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It exists because people pay out the ass for the stuff on it. Morals, unfortunately, don't have much of a place in corporations; if the RoI is there and it isn't overtly illegal, you do it.

Square's profits were up 73% last quarter, so clearly it's working.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

A
Congrats on figuring out why people complain on forums. I'd give you a ghost costume as a reward, but I'd rather not pay $5 for it.

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It'd be fruitless anyways seeming I have the item, cause I attended the events.

This just wreaks of people who complain cause they can't use an expired coupon.

And no, most complaints on this forum stem from a position of entitlement. Occasionally there's a valid concern in there, like an imbalance in a mechanic or progression. But most of it becomes "I want my instant gratification without paying more fore it or doing what I'm supposed to do! Gimmie!"

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I distinctly recall being able to purchase the first 2.0 summer bikinis on alts I didn't have when that holiday rolled around a second time. As far as I know, SE never said it wasn't meant to be a permanent thing. It was a clear design decision from the perspective of a player. All you're doing is trying to backtrack in justifying their really shady, f2p-style business tactic.

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I have no issues with spending a couple of bucks to be able to get an event item that I missed out on. With most of the games I've played that had events with exclusive items/cards/what have you, if you missed out, you missed out and that was it. There were no other chances to get the exclusive event rewards. The fact that FFXIV even makes them available at all is, to me, worth the $3 or $5.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

It exists because people pay out the ass for the stuff on it. Morals, unfortunately, don't have much of a place in corporations; if the RoI is there and it isn't overtly illegal, you do it.

Square's profits were up 73% last quarter, so clearly it's working.

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Sorry, I bought a bunch of awesome Batman and Metal Gear play-arts figures last quarter, 72% was all me.

Seriously, Square is a huge company, you can't throw their total profits around to justify one business decision which clearly a lot of customers on this forum dislike. It makes money, but the opinion on it is about 50/50 here. As it continues to grow each year, it could come to color many people's opinions of the game. By 4.0, review sites may be describing FFXIV as being a p2p game with a larger optional clothing store in than any other mmo on the market.

And people in this thread say I don't understand businesses.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

And no, most complaints on this forum stem from a position of entitlement. Occasionally there's a valid concern in there, like an imbalance in a mechanic or progression. But most of it becomes "I want my instant gratification without paying more fore it or doing what I'm supposed to do! Gimmie!"

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"I want customers to pay more for a product without creating any extra content! Gimmie!" is how I see the mogstation coming into existence. And players complain on the forums in the hopes that Square makes things a little more their way, as you said earlier.

You are right that there is a lot of crazy demands made on the forums, from petitions that will do nothing, to people addressing threads with "yoshi-p read this". People need a bit more tact with how they discuss certain topics, and I myself go to an extreme at times.

But the monetizing of assets to this game is something everyone should be watching with a level of concern. The item shop is growing incredibly fast, mostly on the coattails of earlier successful seasonal events. There is no way this won't affect future development, but in what way? Will there be more new seasonal items than ever before? Or will new art assets show up in the item shop first, without being implemented in game? It's worth being nervous about, at this point, and strong player opinion might have some emphasis on future decisions.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Be happy, those bikinis are not in the cash shop

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So you have no real excuse for what SE has done. Good to know!

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Originally Posted by Naunet

I distinctly recall being able to purchase the first 2.0 summer bikinis on alts I didn't have when that holiday rolled around a second time. As far as I know, SE never said it wasn't meant to be a permanent thing. It was a clear design decision from the perspective of a player. All you're doing is trying to backtrack in justifying their really shady, f2p-style business tactic.

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The summer event cycles swimsuits and yukatas, and from what I'm aware, the only yukatas available prior to last year's event were 1.0